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- [00:08]
A
Welcome to scrolling to death. I am super eager to get into today's conversation. Apparently the information that we are about to learn together is shocking. And that's all I've been told. Joining us today is Titania Jordan, the chief parenting officer at Bark Technologies. And today we're going to talk about what is really happening on the devices our kids are given by their schools. There is new data that has not yet been released that every parent and school administrator needs to know about. So let's get into it. So you, Titania, probably know already and a lot of people that listen that I'm super worried about kids and what they get access to on school issued technology like the iPads and the Chromebooks. And I was recently thinking like wait, Bark offers software to monitor school issued technology, which means Bark should have data about what's happening on these things, what's really, really happening. And if we could talk about that data and get it out there, we can increase awareness for schools about where the harms lie and honestly educate parents too and and school admins on how to better protect children. So I reached out to you, to Tanya and I know you checked with your data scientists and you sort of were like we gotta talk about this. And so what did you find? I'm scared to ask.
- [01:26]
B
Yeah. To give everybody context, in spring of 2018 we launched our give back called Bark for Schools, which essentially lets any school in the nation, the United States of America, use our technology for free to scan school issued tech for issues. Because before we launched that we had done a pilot test and had found some really concerning things happening on school issue. Tech predation, school shooting and bomb threats and children using Google Docs for nefarious purposes and honestly some teachers using them in inappropriate ways too. And kids being exposed to pornography. And this was again 2018 and it took off. It took off. Thankfully so many schools in the nation took us up on that offer. And so currently Bark for Schools, our free give back is analyzing Chrome, Google Chrome, Microsoft Edge, Gmail, Google Chat, Google Drive, OneDrive, Outlook and Teams. These alerts and these findings and this data set I'm about to share with you is specific to schools school issued devices and accounts, not children's personal smartphones or smartwatches or iPads or gaming computers. This is just school issue tech.
- [02:49]
A
We mm.
- [02:50]
B
And so let me pull up our data cause I'm literally reading from the spreadsheet so I do not misquote a single thing. I guess before I go and go into the stats I wanna share a few things. Just overall, like Bark is flagging a lot of abusive conversations in official school software. It's hard to imagine how children feel like this is okay to do at school and on campus, but we can talk about that another time. We are also seeing how kids use both Google Chat like a typical proper chat, that's the function for it, but also improvised chat like Google Docs to talk to each other. Like multiple kids will hop in one shared Google Doc and type things, delete things, drop pictures, delete pictures. So it's like, it's like its own version of Snapchat in a way. Our schools have given kids a way to send disappearing messages to each other.
- [03:44]
A
Aha.
- [03:45]
B
Yeah. We also are flagging high severity content deep in document storage that would otherwise be missed, including suicide notes and school threats. The fact that we've been able to stop credible threats and save children's lives who are communicating on school issue tech that would have otherwise been missed, it gives me chills and it brings me to tears. And we've been doing this for many years now and the rates are consistent year over year with our consumer line. We have seen consistently an increase year over year in disordered eating, related content and issues getting worse and worse and worse. But for school issue tech, the clear front runner is violent content followed by drug content, cyberbullying content, medically concerning content, suicide content, sexual content. So it's interesting the difference between those nuances. So now I'm going to get into the data.
- [04:45]
A
Is it by grade as well?
- [04:47]
B
It is not.
- [04:48]
A
Okay, so this could be across from kinder all the way up to 12th grade.
- [04:53]
B
Correct.
- [04:54]
A
And it's anonymized, but so we don't know the age groups of who's okay, who's interacting.
- [04:59]
B
Okay, so this is the percentage of children school issued tech and accounts with at least one alert, just one or more. Okay, so for cyberbullying, 12%. 12% of children encountered bullying either as a victim witness or the bully themself. We saw 3.74% instances of depression, 7.46% instances of suicide, suicidal ideation, imminent suicide, harms, threats, self harm, violence was almost 40%. It was 39.83%. That was the highest of all the categories was violence.
- [05:47]
A
And does that mean violent conversations or violent content?
- [05:51]
B
All of that. Okay, all of that. And I can follow up with our data science team in terms of some more of the classifiers, but it could be anything from sharing, you know, a link to a tweet or what do they, what do they call them? Now an X?
- [06:07]
A
No, I don't think so. It's still tweet. It's definitely still.
- [06:11]
B
Okay, great. So it's, it's a link to a tweet of like graphic on the ground footage of, of the aftermath of war. Right. That's happening across the globe to a, you know, I'm going to come to school tomorrow and shoot it up like it's, it's, it, it's ranging, um, drug related content 22% sexual content almost 11% 10.77 hate speech 2.69% which is interesting just given the way we know kids are talking to each other and about each other on their personal accounts. I thought this would be a lot higher.
- [06:49]
A
Interesting.
- [06:50]
B
Still not good. But it's lower than I thought. Medically concerning content, 11.64%. Body image related content is only 0.23% which again is interesting given how much we're seeing on personal. Right. But if schools have done their job and they're limiting Instagram and TikTok access, you know, this feeds a lot of it.
- [07:12]
A
Yeah.
- [07:12]
B
And then anxiety, 1.79%. So that's, that's what we're seeing on school issued tech.
- [07:22]
A
Those percentages are shocking. Uh, and let me to touch on what they mean. A couple of those. So you said 22% of kids who are using school issued devices that bark monitors are seeing drug content of some kind of conversations about drugs. Nearly one in four.
- [07:41]
B
Yeah, it could be. I vaped before school. You know, put me in touch with your plug. I'm so high right now. Anything. Right. It could be anything related to drugs and alcohol.
- [07:54]
A
So the schools get these alerts that you guys are triggering and then along with that we're assuming the schools are then addressing those issues in real time. Like the value of just getting these alerts. I just have to emphasize that because first of all, I can't believe that's happening. And do schools even have the resources to deal with this level of harm too?
- [08:18]
B
I mean most schools. And again this is across public and private schools. Right. And so it really depends. It depends on the school type, it depends on the district. Hopefully every school has a school resource officer, but I think even he or she or they have to triage. You know, it's like I've got this, this imminent suicidal ideation alert over here. I need to get in touch with this kid's parents and or 911 depending on the severity level. So I maybe not as worried about this kid vaping in the bathroom. Right. Like they are definitely under, under resourced.
- [08:52]
A
So on school issue technology, just if we were to expand this out, potentially 1 in 10 kids are seeing sexual content. Nearly 1 in 10, 10 kids seeing suicide content or having conversations about suicide. 1 in 4 kids seeing drug related content. Over 1 in 10 kids being cyberbullied or cyberbullying others or witnessing cyberbullying. I mean that's a lot of bad stuff that kids are getting access to. On school issued tech. What you brought up in the beginning about what you're monitoring, this is what's being accessed through a lot of the, mostly the Google products, right.
- [09:28]
B
And Microsoft based on the rates per million and overall ranking patterns across the abuse categories to rank these platforms from worst to best in order of abuse prevalence and risk across these platforms. So the, the worst one of all of these was Microsoft Teams followed by Google Chat, Google Drive, Gmail, OneDrive, Outlook, Microsoft Edge and Google Chrome. So it like Microsoft and Google, they're really just. But here's the thing. I don't want to throw Microsoft and Google under the bus because at least they are open to being monitored. If Snap and TikTok and other platforms like Roblox and Discord that children use gave us this sort of access, it would be off the charts. It would make Microsoft and Google look like kindergarten.
- [10:27]
A
And those other platforms that you mentioned proactively cut you guys off from being able to monitor for harm to kids.
- [10:33]
B
Yes, we still have ways to do it and we're still able to do it, but it's not because they're helping us.
- [10:39]
A
Okay. They made it harder.
- [10:41]
B
Oh yeah.
- [10:42]
A
So is this a problem in your opinion with these products? Are they not appropriate to be used in schools or are like kids misusing them? What's your opinion on that?
- [10:56]
B
My opinion is both to keep a very, what could be a very long answer very short. And I'll expand from that. You know I have personal experience with this in that a parent at my son's then middle school at the time, he's now in high school, reached out to me and said our children are able to access pornography on the school issued Chromebooks. What can we do about it? And I, I, I told him step by step by step by step. But I'm like, it's like watching a car wreck in slow motion and not being able to do anything about it including even call 911 because you know, there's so many layers you have to go through. We didn't have scrolling to death yet. We didn't have your resources for how to talk to whomever is the decision maker. It was just like a welp and, and finger pointing, right?
- [11:46]
A
Yep.
- [11:46]
B
Much like if we had drug dealers and pornographic actors, I guess you call them, I don't know what they're officially called, and predators, like literally in our children's classrooms with them. We wouldn't allow that.
- [12:03]
A
Right?
- [12:03]
B
That wouldn't be allowed. That would be preposterous.
- [12:06]
A
Right.
- [12:07]
B
Yet we as adults, as legislators, as doctors, as school administrators have given children too much access and given the world too much access to them without the proper safety guards. Tech is not the problem. It's the way that we have given it and not protected it and not filtered it and not limited it. And I'm just so grateful that the science continues to come out around basic things. Right. Like how taking handwritten notes actually saves to your brain better than typing. Right. And we just. The pendulum has swung way too far to the side of ridiculous that we all need to recalibrate and sense check because our children are being harmed or harming each other every single day in ways that wouldn't be allowed in real life at school.
- [12:58]
A
Right. On the devices the school gives them and often requires them to use in order to get their education.
- [13:04]
B
Right.
- [13:06]
A
And that's what's so devastating for parents. And parents are often, they often feel very stuck because we're told we can't opt out. And in my own experience, having to pull the kids out of a public school system into a charter where it's classical style education. So they are given devices much later and it's. The use is super minimal. And I'm grateful for that. But most people don't have that option. There are parent teacher coalitions that are forming all over the country and pushing back en masse because you can't go this alone anymore. You can't be the only one being like, I don't want my kid on there. You have to get together with other parents and teachers. And so if we're at a point for a advice, like, I mean, I guess I'm feeling overwhelmed by the amount of harm that you guys are finding happening on these devices. They should be better locked down if there's school administrators or tech superintendents listening. Like, we have to be doing a better job. And I know that budgets are tight, but we have to do a, somehow do a better job. Especially when we have these very targeted data points on these specific platforms available now through bark. Like we can target these platforms knowing what kids are doing on them and not allowing them to do it. Like they don't need a Google document that everyone can join and so they can share links to other things and inappropriate material and cyberbully each other. Like there are steps that schools can take.
- [14:30]
B
Yes. That's the thing is it's not like a, well, there's no hope. And to so many schools credit they, because of bark alerts have been like, okay, we've got to make some changes. Like nobody expects anybody to be perfect. Right. Work isn't perfect. Right. But if somebody points something out to us that we can do better or where we've missed the mark, we will own it and work to change it. And the school districts and administration and tech teams and teachers and librarians who are like, wow, that's not good, we made a mistake, let's fix this, are doing the right thing. Everybody else who is turning the other way, pretending it's not happening or saying we can't get involved in this or, or the plausible deniability of we don't want to get bark for schools because then we're going to know things that we're going to have to take action on. That to me, is the most egregious. Right.
- [15:20]
A
And I suggested bark for schools to my old public school and they said no, they, they weren't going to use it and it wasn't clear why. And that's for me, it's like, because you don't want everyone knowing the level of harm happening through these devices. That's not cool. Like, and so I expect most schools to react to this if they don't have bark on the school issued devices. Look through this data and make some adjustments to better protect kids. If you don't use bark, use bark for schools so that you can get personalized data for what's happening within your school. Right.
- [15:54]
B
It's free. Like, there's no reason it's free. And we have the most stringent privacy and security standards. There are other entities in this space, school surveillance tech, we'll call it, that have sold children's data or have had security breaches. And I get it, I get why anybody would be a little bit cautious about wanting that sort of thing. But we go so far above and beyond what's even required of us by law because it's not about what we can do with your kids data in terms of selling it. We don't sell data. In fact, we proactively delete data as fast as we can after we've analyzed it because we don't want it. It's not ours. We don't want it. We're trying to protect you.
- [16:35]
A
Right.
- [16:36]
B
And your family. And who wouldn't, who wouldn't want that?
- [16:39]
A
Yeah. And I want to get, I guess, more clear on what parents can do here. So a lot of parents are trying to opt out entirely. I have templates to help you do that@techsafelearning.org but if you're not ready for that, send them this report. I'll include this data in a more digestible format. We'll work on that together. Maybe you guys will have a blog up or I'll put it in the episode notes. I'll link to it.
- [17:04]
B
Yeah, I'll ask our team to put something together. Cause I was literally reading from a spreadsheet like fresh from the data scientists.
- [17:09]
A
Yes, this is fresh. So we're gonna make it digestible for you and an easy way to send to your school and ask them to review it and make some changes and make sure that your children are not at risk. There's a lot of other things you can do and I'm around and available to help parents through whatever they feel passionate about regarding school technology. But knowledge is power and schools need to make changes based on the knowledge that's. And if it's kids getting harmed at these levels, then it's their responsibility to better protect them. And that's the school's responsibility. And parents are there to support schools if they do the right thing. I think we can all come together on that.
- [17:50]
B
Absolutely. And I have a great deal of empathy and respect for anybody who's working in education right now. It's such a different world. And to give any one educator, administrator one more job is not an easy ask. But then how about you just don't, don't start. Right. Don't. Just don't do the thing. I know that I'm trivializing it or simplifying it, but I like to use analogies. And like if my third grade child's teacher sent them home with a chainsaw because they needed to go outside and work on a science project, I'd be like, that's not safe. That's not gonna work. We're gonna have to find something else out. But that's kind of what we're doing with the tech. We need to do a lot better. We need to not give kids addictive dopamine, hijacking screens and games before their brains are ready. Books and paper and pens and pencils work just fine.
- [18:43]
A
Right.
- [18:44]
B
We need to prepare parents for if we are sending children home with school issued tech make sure you give the parents at least a one sheet on, hey, here's what you need to do about your home Internet. And maybe don't let your kid take this in the bedroom. And like just some basic safety right,
- [19:03]
A
that they don't do that. Insane.
- [19:05]
B
It's pretty wild. Yeah. And please, please, please, like you do not have to give your child tech. Like, I don't know what the laws are. That's. That's Nikki's area specialty. But Nikki has successfully opted out, moved schools and said, no, not my child. And we should all support her and her efforts and follow suit. And one more thing while I'm on my like so box is the coaches and the group leaders who are adults that are encouraging children to get on SNAP or Instagram for group communication. You need to stop that right now. You need to stop that right now. It is not okay.
- [19:43]
A
100% not allowed. And related to that, thousands of school districts have sued social media companies for harming and addicting children. And then you can't then require kids to go on those same platforms to communicate. Also sued Google and YouTube and now you're. But then you're requiring kids to use Google products for educational purposes. So let's think like, think this through a little bit. If the products by these companies were developed to be addictive and then we're requiring them at school and we can see very clearly the harm coming through those products, then we just have to nix them. Like, let's cut the contracts with these companies that are doing a shitty job at protecting children.
- [20:24]
B
It's like if we hung banners in every school cafeteria that said sponsored by Monsanto. Like, yeah, make it make sense.
- [20:33]
A
It's basically they are like a PTA taking money from Meta and TikTok and all of that. Like, our schools are sponsored by the social media companies.
- [20:42]
B
You know what? I am proud of the national PTA for saying no to Meta. I was not thrilled when I had learned that that had happened, but I am. You know what? We can wake up every day a little bit smarter and make better choices. And that was a better choice to not take any more funding from Meta. So.
- [20:57]
A
Right again, learn and progress and make safer choices. Like we're. We're okay. Yes, give them, giving them kudos for that. I don't think they've cut ties with all the social media companies. So I would like more progress there. But. Yeah, but education and addictive predatory platforms should not be coming together in any format where we need to be separating those. And I just am so grateful to bark for all of this data. I know that it's a lot of work to be analyzing this. I mean, you offer this product for free. I can't imagine you're making any money from it. And then you're committing resources to pulling data so that we can understand what types of harms our kids are getting access to through those devices. And so we will make that accessible to parents and schools below in the episode notes so that we can action on it. And hopefully these numbers, when you pull them in six months or a year will have gone down would be my goal here.
- [21:53]
B
That'd be amazing. And yeah, to your point, those server bills don't pay themselves. So if and when it is time for your family to decide to let your children have safer tech, a smartwatch, a smartphone that is actually safe, please consider Bark. That is how we make money is by selling a safer line of products. Most recently the Bark Sync, which is our solution for Apple. Families do not recommend Apple for children, but some people don't want to hear that. And I understand. And so we do things for you too.
- [22:27]
A
Is that an app for Apple devices or what is that one?
- [22:30]
B
No, it's a brand new little piece of hardware that charges Apple devices, iPads and iPhones and is our solution to the just cluster of a situation that Apple has given families.
- [22:44]
A
Right. Thanks but no thanks Apple. When people ask me what my advice is for parents, I always say my number one thing is we are so grateful for having safer options. IPhones are adult phones. You need to pick a safer phone that was built for children like Bark. Like why wouldn't we? And I just do hear about a lot of parents. My, my closest friend and her son has a bark phone and his friend just got a bark phone. They're so happy to have a phone and be able to chat with each other and have their what, whatever the little games or things that the parent has allowed for them. But. And the parents are so grateful to be getting alerts because there's some interesting conversations that sometimes happen as kids are learning how to use those, those messaging apps and different things. So I am so grateful to you guys and it's really important that parents educate themselves. Makes as safe a choice as possible when it comes to devices. We feel a little out of control when it comes to the school technology, which is what we talked about today. So I just, I just really hope parents will use their voices and push back at school because you can, you can make a difference. I'm living proof of that. Like you can make a difference at your school.
- [23:51]
B
Yes, you can. Let's go, Nikki.
- [23:55]
A
Thanks, Satanya. Love you.
- [23:57]
B
You got me all fired up. It's hard. It's hard for all of us. It's never not gonna be hard. You have to choose your hard. I forget some major influencer said that. Or pastor. I don't remember, but choose your hard, right? Like, you can either not do anything to keep your kids safer online and deal with those ramifications, or you can push, Push. And it's gonna be hard up front. And then you will be so thankful you did. So choose your hard. I opt for choosing the hard that keeps kids safe.
- [24:22]
A
Me, too. Let's do it.