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Teachers Talk (with Jessica Moore)

Scrolling 2 Death

Thu Aug 08 2024

Summary

Podcast Summary: Scrolling 2 Death – Teachers Talk (with Jessica Moore)

Host: Nicki Petrossi
Guest: Jessica Moore (Montessori public charter school teacher, Alaska)
Date: August 8, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode of Scrolling 2 Death dives deep into the on-the-ground realities of how smartphones, screens, and social media are affecting children in American classrooms today. Host Nicki Petrossi speaks with Jessica Moore, a passionate Alaskan educator with firsthand insight into the digital world’s impact on preteens. Together, they explore the challenges parents and teachers face, share actionable advice, and reflect on research and real-life classroom experiences—all with a focus on empowering parents to make safer tech choices for their kids.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Parents’ “False Sense of Security” About Tech & Government Protections

Jessica and Nicki open by lamenting the lack of meaningful legislation to protect children online, blaming Big Tech’s lobbying power ([00:01]).
Jessica’s emotional reaction: “There are no safety measures. You are it. As a parent, you are it.” ([01:14])
- Quote: “I wish I could scream that from the mountaintops to every parent, there are no safety measures. You are it.” – Jessica ([01:14])
Both agree the burden has unfairly shifted to parents, despite the dangers online: “We are, you know, doing our best letting our kids have some kind of access… then they're getting quick added with… predators or drug dealers…” – Nicki ([01:52])

2. Misplaced Trust and the Role of Research

Jessica admits she once trusted tech companies and government entities to act responsibly—but became alarmed as longitudinal research emerged ([04:03], [04:59]).
Importance of looking beyond anecdotes; longitudinal studies now paint a stark picture of kids’ mental health decline post-smartphone introduction ([04:59], [13:54]).

3. The Responsibility and Limits of Teachers

Jessica describes her unique position: she teaches fourth–sixth graders for three years, allowing deep bonds and witnessing developmental changes ([05:37]).
Teachers feel powerless once kids go home with their devices.
- Quote: “It must be sad because you only have so much power… you must just be like, I don’t have the power. I just want to control all of it.” – Nicki ([05:22])
The rolling classroom model strengthens relationships, making tough conversations about tech more impactful.

4. Disinformation & Kids' Critical Thinking

Kids increasingly encounter misinformation online and struggle to distinguish credible sources ([11:00]–[12:09]).
Jessica’s classroom anecdote: students distrust even .gov sources, reflecting digital cynicism picked up online ([13:30]).
- Quote: “I can always tell my kiddos who have access to social media because of the things they come to school saying…” – Jessica ([11:00])

5. Start Conversations Early & Build Digital Literacy

Both stress the need to begin educating children (even preschoolers) about screens and digital risks ([15:51]).
Jessica’s philosophy: Don’t “dumb down” the data for tweens—use real statistics about depression, anxiety, and social media effects ([13:54], [18:17]):
- Quote: “There’s been a 145% increase in depression [in girls] that’s correlated with smartphone and social media use.” – Jessica ([13:54])

6. Healthy Tech Alternatives

Highlighting alternatives to mainstream smartphones: Gab phone, Bark phone, and Gab watch—devices that maintain connectivity without internet or social media risks ([18:17]–[19:05], [69:06]).
- Quote: “There are smartphones… that allow you to be connected but don’t let scary strangers… contact you.” – Jessica ([18:17])
Recommendation of key parenting books:
- “Wired Child” by Richard Freed ([19:31])
- “Spoiled Right” by Megan Owens ([20:09])

7. The Risks of “Entertainment Technology”

Jessica and Nicki caution against using digital devices as emotional pacifiers for children, especially during tantrums ([22:52]–[24:53]).
- Quote: “If you give the child a tablet a lot to deal with a big emotion… the child becomes unable to choose a deliberate response…” – Nicki ([24:09])
Discuss the mounting evidence that overusing screens impairs kids’ executive function, self-regulation, and attention.

8. Modeling & Managing Adult Tech Behavior

Both reveal personal strategies: hiding remotes, putting phones away at home, communicating frankly with their children about their own tech use ([35:27], [36:09]).
- Quote: “My two year old daughter came and smacked my phone out of my hand…” – Jessica ([36:09])

9. Addiction, Withdrawal, and Brain Development

Tech habits form early and are addictive, illustrated by Jessica’s son pining for an iPad used once, years ago ([36:42]).
Graceful “not yet” as a parenting phrase—delay, don’t outright ban; teach kids the research and explain why ([38:05]).

10. Classroom Policy & Tech–School Problems

Jessica’s school requires phones to be off and in bags, with rare exceptions ([51:01]).
Teachers spend significant time mitigating social and emotional conflicts spawned by out-of-school tech use ([49:17]).
Parental collaboration is key—suggests meetings to discuss schoolwide approaches ([49:17], [52:00]).

11. Social Media & Mental Health Crisis

Stark data: 145% rise in major depressive episodes among U.S. teen girls since 2010, coinciding with the smartphone/social media era ([44:24]).
- Quote: “There’s been a 145% increase since 2010 in the percent of US teens who had a major depressive episode.” – Jessica ([44:24])
Kids experience intense social pressures, online bullying, and are increasingly unsafe even at home.

12. Loss of Empathy & Digital Etiquette

Story of Pennsylvania middle-schoolers creating offensive fake TikTok teacher accounts underscores eroding empathy and online disinhibition ([56:56]).
Jessica: must explicitly teach digital citizenship, respectful disagreement, and empathy in the digital age ([57:44]).

13. Role of Parents: Delay, Educate, Stay Involved

Delay personal device use as long as feasible—explore safer options and have ongoing conversations ([69:07]).
If the “cat’s out of the bag,” parents can still walk back tech privileges—frame it as care, not punishment ([70:49]):
- Quote: “Be brave enough to say… I want to share some of the things… How can we work to walk back your tech use together?” – Jessica ([69:07])

14. Big Tech, Government, and the Need for Parent Action

Shared skepticism about government/legislative progress: parents must band together to create cultural change ([73:34]).
- Quote: “Every expert is saying this is harmful… our US General Surgeon [warned], and I can’t even believe that didn’t make national news.” – Jessica ([74:09])

Notable Quotes & Moments

Jessica’s Wake-Up Call:
- “I wish I could scream that from the mountaintops to every parent: there are no safety measures. You are it. As a parent, you are it.” ([01:14])
On Tech’s Emotional Toll:
- “Parents are fighting a losing battle… they’re getting served suicide videos… I know so many parents… intentional parents that have no idea what’s going on.” – Jessica ([02:09])
When Kids Realize the Impact:
- “I every year have kids say, like, ‘I’m giving my phone back to my parents. This is wildly irresponsible.’" – Jessica ([16:44])
On Parental “Not Yet” Approach:
- “Not always, not forever, but not yet. And here’s why: there’s research that says this is bad for you.” – Jessica ([38:05])
On Walking Back After Mistakes:
- “Love that you are not powerless… be brave enough to say, I love you so much, I read this new book… how can we work to walk back your tech use together?” ([69:07])

Actionable Advice & Takeaways

Early Childhood (Toddlers–Younger Kids)

Delay the introduction of personal devices as long as possible.
Involve children in daily tasks; let them experience boredom and practice self-regulation.
Limit TVs and tablets, especially as emotional pacifiers—use shows intentionally, co-watch, and discuss.

Preteens & Teens

Educate children on the why behind tech rules—use real research and data, not just “because I said so.”
Explore device alternatives (Gab, Bark, watch-based communication).
Be aware that kids are adept at bypassing parental controls.

Parents’ Role

Audit your own tech behavior—model deliberate, mindful use.
Build a network with other parents to establish shared norms.
Have direct, honest conversations around digital risks, pornography, online predators, and empathy.
Advocate within schools and communities for policies and parent education.

Important Timestamps

01:14 – Jessica’s emotional plea to parents: “You are it.”
05:37 – Building long-term teacher-student relationships & powerlessness against home tech use.
13:54 – Discussing mental health statistics with students; importance of giving teens facts, not platitudes.
16:44 – Kids’ rebellion against devices when shown the data.
18:17 – Alternatives to mainstream smartphones.
22:52–24:53 – Harmful long- and short-term effects of pacifying with devices.
35:27 – Parents modeling tech habits at home.
44:24 – 145% increase in teen depression since introduction of smartphones.
51:01 – Jessica’s school policy and how phones are handled at school.
56:56 – Empathy loss: Middle schoolers’ online bullying of teachers.
69:07 – How to walk back unrestricted tech use (“You are not powerless”).

Final Thoughts (from Jessica Moore)

Start from toddlerhood: delay screens, build boredom stamina, include kids in life instead of pacifying with tech.
As kids grow: delay smart devices; use “not yet” and involve them in the reasons why.
If devices are already in use: Collaborate with kids to reduce/unwind screen time; share research and concerns openly.
Be brave—discuss these topics with peers, advocate for safer practices in your circles and community.
- “What we do now will affect that ultimate adult that we send out into the world.” ([71:02])
Legislative change is slow—real shifts will come from collective parental action and awareness.

Summary prepared for listeners and those seeking actionable insights from this important conversation.

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Transcript

A (0:01)

Welcome to Scrolling to Death. You guys are in for a treat. So this is an episode of Teachers Talk here on Scrolling to Death. I got to connect with Jessica Moore, who is a teacher in Alaska. She has had a front row seat to seeing how screens are affecting preteens in her classroom. There's a lot to learn here for parents, a lot of takeaways. Jessica and I go in a lot of different directions. So I hope you enjoy this conversation and continue to make safe decisions around tech for our kids. This episode is sponsored by Bark Technologies. I am truly grateful as a parent that we have safer options for our kids. We don't have to default to an iPhone. The Bark phone helps families with young kids or teenagers ramp up online safety, really protect our kids, get alerts if something harmful happens or comes across their feed. We can really manage their entire digital experience safely. More on Bark in the episode notes. But let's get into my conversation with Jessica Moore. Haven't gotten legislation passed is because big tech spends so much, so much, so many millions of dollars lobbying against it in states like little bills that just are for Mississippi or I was just talking about the stad with yeah, the big tech companies showed up to lobby against his bill and it didn't go through. And it's like but or bigger bills like Kids Online Safety act that could have protected children. It could have saved children's lives already.

B (1:14)

And I think as parents we have this false sense of security that like I trust my government and I vote and I do all of these things and I think like we in good faith that technology is wonderful and our kids and they would never sorry it makes me emotional that our kids would never intentionally be harmed. And it's like there, there's and I wish I could scream that from the mountaintops to every parent there are no safety measures. You are it. As a parent, you are it. And I think that's just where I like so sorry, I don't mean to get emotional about it.

A (1:52)

That's okay. And that is not fair because parents are fighting a losing battle. We are, you know, doing our best letting our kids have some kind of access so they can just socialize and then they're getting quick added with, you know, predators or drug dealers or they're

B (2:09)

getting served suicide videos like so concerning to me as both an educator, as a parent, as a human to go, I know so many parents who are brilliant, well educated, kind, intentional parents that have no idea what's going on. And that's what's scary to me. And I Tell. So I tell kids in my class all the time, like, you're never going to see this information unless you go thoroughly search for it. Because is the media gonna put this information out? There are these statistics, they're not gonna show up across your feet. P.S. you've been scrolling TikTok for three hours and this is wildly detrimental to your health. Sorry. Right, we're gonna stop our, you know, no, that's never gonna happen. And so I think it's such a daunting thing as a parent to go, how do I be intentional about this? How do I protect my kid? You know, I, I think so often, you know, Nikki, I have young kids. I have a two and a half year old and a four and a half year old. And I go, I think about all the thought that's gone into their sleep schedules, safe sleep, their vaccine schedules, the foods that we introduce, all of these things. And it's like, yeah, you know, technology, I, I would argue, or just, I mean, not even my opinion, the research shows like that's more dangerous than any, anything that we have to face as parents. So.

B (24:53)

For every they are, they're building blocks. And there's a critical period for each one. And emotional regulation really like you look like hopefully by five we're zoning in on that and hopefully we're nailing that down. And I would argue just like as a. And actually I keep saying I would argue, but the research supports that we have to explicitly teach those skills to kids do not know how to innately calm themselves down or to ride away or they go into fight or flight. There's a ton of brain research about that. And when we rob them of those opportunities to learn that skill, then it just becomes harder and harder and then it just because, you know, they, the saying of like they wire together, they fire together the more you use it in your brain. And then I've been able to watch that in my own, in my own two kids. They're both, they both have very sensitive temperaments. It has not been easy to my 4 year old. He's incredible and super intelligent and the most empathetic kid. But he, you know, two to three, I thought we were like going to die just because I knew the brain research. Like my, actually my bachelor's is in early childhood education. So I'm like, I know all the development, I know all the Things. Here we go. But then to practice, I'm like, this is tough. Like, and now coming out on the other side of it to where he's four and a half and he can't self regulate and he knows the things to do. But those skills have to also, like, what are your choices when you're frustrated you can't haul off and whack your two year old sister? What are the things you can do to emotionally regulate? And he'll go sit down and do some breathing or count to himself or, you know, certain things. Or sometimes he says like, he needs to come sit by me and like hold my hand and calm down. And it's. Yeah. And again, that's in my very best parenting days. There's other days where complete zoo. But it's like I'm seeing just kiddos who had, just who have never had to work through that uncomfortable space. Or like the apathy with school, schoolwork of like handwriting is boring. I don't want to handwrite. Well, yeah, it's boring, but it's a skill you need to have. So here we go. Come on. You can do hard things. And it's like, I have, you know, every teacher everywhere has dealt with kids who are like, I can't do this, I won't do this. This is too hard. And it's because I shouldn't say it's because oftentimes those kiddos just have not been provided the opportunity to work through something difficult. And there's a lot of confidence that comes through that. So I'd encourage every parent, like, trust your kid. Trust your kid. It's okay to be bored. It's great for brain development. There's a ton of research. It's great to be bored and even quiet. Yeah.

B (39:38)

You know, we choose what we hope are high quality programs and he. Every once in a while we'll fly off the handle when it's time. Like we do the countdown, we do a five minute timer, we do a two minute timer. I'm doing the inflection in my voice. Everything that the research would say to do and he, I let him turn it off. And he still, you know, probably once every five times we'll have a complete and total meltdown. And I'll say, yeah, once everything's. Once he's out of it and we can talk about it, I'll say, honey, do you know that icky feeling? Yeah, that's normal. That's hard sometimes. That's why we have to be really careful about how much we're using this. And I think like, especially like parents of preteens, like my sixth graders, they're such cool kids. Like they're cool people. You can have conversation with them. I think so often that's such a tricky time of life because they feel like they're on this precipice of becoming an adult. They feel, you know, especially some of the stuff some of them are exposed to, like they have real world knowledge. And just to be able to say like straight up, like that is bad for you. You should not be on TikTok because you are at a social. You are at a critical period of brain development and you are going to unconsciously compare yourself to every person you come across. And that's like, you know, we talk about, like I do with my sixth graders, like influencers, like who are the people you admire? Like, okay, the social media influence. Why do you like her? What qualities does she have that you like? Is she empathetic? Is she compassionate or is she just pretty? What do you like about her? You know, and so having frank conversations. Is she, she, is she, you know, or even like within, you know, you have to be really careful. But is this person Popular or are they powerful? Are they popular for the right reasons? You know, having those frank conversations with kids in an age appropriate way, it empowers them too, to say, if you feel like crap after you get off TikTok or Instagram, there's a reason for it. I tell the sixth graders in sixth grade boot camp, I say, you don't stand. Like, if you feel like, you know, there's a ton of research on boys when they are gaming, when they're playing Fortnite or World of Warcraft or whatever they're playing, when they are, when their parents make them get off. I'll sit down. Do you ever argue with your mom? You ever yell at your dad? It's because your testosterone levels are through the roof and you, like, that is a totally normal neurological response. Your central nervous system is in fight or flight and you're. You're going to act aggressively. That's normal. Like, you stand a chance against a room full of neuroscientists who have developed that game to have that, that response from you. You don't stand a chance. So just be aware of it. And I've had kids come back and say, like, oh my gosh, you're right. My mom told me to turn it off and I got mad at her. And it's like, it's. There's this really conversation to have and say, see, like, you know, you know, like, be smarter than the man.

B (57:44)

It's terrifying. Personally, I. I think it's terrifying. Yeah, it is problematic for a multitude of different reasons, but I think kids who, you know, we are, we have to counteract a generation of keyboard warriors. You know, I talked. I have this conversation often. If you would not say it face to face, never, ever, ever say it online. And if you wouldn't do it in face to face. And some kids are lacking that empathy piece where they would do it in face to face. And then we have to circle back around and say, well, let's talk about empathy. Let's talk about being a compassionate individual. How do you want to treat people? Why are you okay with being abrasive or unkind and then kind of hit it from another area? But as an educator, that is scary. And it's scary there. I could go on forever. I have to be careful what I say. It is scary to live in a world where kids can say and do a lot of things. There's not a lot of professions. We live in such a litigious society that. And school districts, a lot of times are afraid of parents or what parents will do or say or the pushback, what parents are. You know, thankfully, at my school and in my district, like, I'm very thankful that we have such wonderful relationships with parents for the most part. But every once in a while, there's a sticky parent, that it's like, there has to be a level of respect there that I think that has just as a societal whole has been slowly eroded over time. You know, teachers. During COVID we were superheroes. And then everybody got back to school and it was like, well, you guys do more, more with less, you know, and it's. Yeah, that's. It's tricky. I would just. I would implore every parent to, like, be having conversations with your children about respect and not blind respect. You don't, you know, you have to challenge the man a little bit. But. Well, you know, I talk to kids all the time. Like, there are people that you are going to come in contact with. Like, if a police officer asks you, you to do something, it is dangerous for you not to comply at times. You know, if a teacher asks you to do something, you can very respectfully air your grievances, but you can't be aggressive or you shouldn't be. I mean you absolutely can be.

B (71:02)

They'll feel better, I think so often, like, we as parents, like, forget that, like, our kids need us, they want us, they. Even if we, they fight us. And like, oh, you're the worst parent ever. I hate you for taking away YouTube. This is YouTube is so problematic. I didn't even touch on that. But yeah, agree. Yeah, you're such a bad parent. Like, you're doing it for the benefit of them. You. Like if I always say, like, if we gave our kids nothing but junk food forever, and then all of a sudden realize like, oh, I can't in good conscience keep giving you junk food and never let you have a healthy meal, like, you would never just be like, oh, my kid only eats cookies, sorry. Like, you would walk a back tech. This is the same thing. Like the data. I would argue that the data probably would say it's more catastrophic. And then finally, the last thing I'll say before you and I end is like, be brave enough to have these conversations with your adult peers and the research. Like, if you come, you again. I always worry about. Because my kids are young and it's really easy for me to say because I'm not in the thick of it yet. Like, I find myself hesitating to share things. And I think if we honestly come at it with like, love and empathy for each other as parents and like, as a collected village of like, we all love these kids together, how can we best help them? How can we best serve them? We want them to grow up into, you know, self assured, mentally healthy adults that are competent and well placed in the world and are. And what we do now will. Will affect that ultimate adult that we send out into the world. And just being brave enough to have those conversations, even though they're hard and they're counterintuitive to societal pressures, I find myself, like, my husband probably thinks I'm psycho because I talk to him about this a lot. And being brave enough to start being brave enough, you know, passing books on, passing research on, sharing it on your own social media, being intentional about that, I think we can change things. I have hope that we can change things. Because as much as I have optimism for the future, I don't think Things are going to change in the big tech. I don't think the government's going to do much, unfortunately.