← Self-Conscious with Chrissy Teigen
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- [00:04]
Chrissy Teigen
You're listening to Self Conscious with Chrissy Teigen, an Audible original podcast.
- [00:08]
Nedra Glover Tawab
Join me as we explore the cutting edge of health, wellness and personal growth with the world's leading experts and thinkers. From inspiring stories to actionable insights, our conversations aim to help you lead a.
- [00:20]
Chrissy Teigen
Healthier, happier and more productive life. In today's always on world, it's easy to lose sight of where we end and others begin. Between work demands, family expectations, and the constant buzz of social media, we're often pulled in a million directions, giving more of ourselves than we're comfortable with. The result? We feel drained, overwhelmed and disconnected from our own needs. When healthy boundaries aren't in place, frustration builds, resentment festers, and we find ourselves overextended, burned out and unable to say no. The personal cost is high. My next guest believes there's a better way to live. Nedra Glover Tawab is a licensed therapist, relationship expert, and one of the most influential voices in the wellness space. A frequent Oprah guest, Nedra has made it her mission to help people set healthy boundaries and create balanced, fulfilling lives. Her New York Times bestselling book Set Find Peace has resonated with millions breaking down the art of boundary setting in a clear, actionable way. Nedra believes that boundaries aren't about building walls, they're about creating space for healthier, more authentic connections. And setting them isn't just necessary, it's an essential act of self care. In her audible original 30 days to better Boundaries, Nedra offers a comprehensive, step by step guide to help listeners establish and maintain healthier boundaries in all aspects of their lives. Each day tackles a specific boundary related challenge, from identifying where our limits are too loose or too rigid, to practical exercises for asserting our needs without guil. In today's episode, Nedra will unpack the signs of boundary issues, explain why they lead to resentment and burnout, and guide us towards setting boundaries that not only protect our well being, but foster stronger connections. Nedra Glover Tawab welcome to Self Conscious.
- [02:19]
Nedra Glover Tawab
This is a really exciting one for me as somebody that has no boundaries at all, for anything, at any time, anywhere. Let's get right into it. What do you hope listeners take away from 30 days to better Boundaries?
- [02:33]
I hope that they have the courage and grace to better place boundaries. When you said I have no boundaries, I often think that sometimes we overlook the things that we're doing well, which is something that I talk about in this course, that sometimes we do have boundaries and we don't realize it because we're so good at it and we hyper focus on oh my gosh I'm not great at this. I'm not great at that. But you probably do have some great boundaries in some area that you're overlooking.
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Unpack the six types of boundaries that you share with your listeners in your 30 day guide.
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Boundaries occur across spectrums. Boundaries can be sexual, where those boundaries are pretty clear. There's laws around sexual boundaries. There's intellectual boundaries around what we can talk about, how we can talk about those things, be it politics, be it our opinions, our values, what people say in response to how we speak about things. There's emotional boundaries, telling other people how to feel, which is something I think we do very poorly in our society. Don't be sad about that. It's not that bad. Oh, you'll feel better. There are material boundaries, like with our state stuff, how we like our possessions to be treated, how we like to treat our money, ourselves. There are also, you know, my, my favorite area is time boundaries, which is how we choose to spend our time and also how we allow others to respect or disrespect our time. And lastly, physical boundaries. We saw this a lot like in the pandemic. There was like signs of sickness six feet apart. But how do we show up with folks physically? I know sometimes I could be like doing a presentation somewhere and after I'm finished, people will walk up to me and they're like super close. And I just finished talking about boundaries and they're like this close. And they're like, oh my gosh, I really loved your talk. And I'm like, okay, but just a little bit of space. Like not six feet, just a little bit. Because I feel like now we're hugging and I just met you. All of those things are our boundaries. Things that we may not consider, but we very likely have some preference about.
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What do you think is the clearest sign that we need to set boundaries?
- [04:53]
Our feelings are very telling. When we start to feel anxious, when we start to feel depressed and sad, when we start to feel a bit burnout, we want to just escape. And we find ourselves in behaviors that we don't want to be in. Whatever that void filler is, whether it's. It's smoking, it's drinking, it's more social media, what's taking us to that place? What are we trying to leave? Sometimes it's things that we need to ask for some help around. And then there are other times where we really need to evaluate some relationships when we're avoiding, oh my gosh, I hate Mondays. And it's like Sunday is the worst day for me, because I have to go back to work. What is the thing you hate about Mondays? Is it that on Mondays you start your day at 9:00 and there's 100 emails and you're trying to do other tasks and answer the emails? Is there a different way to structure your day so you can maybe do emails later and then start work? So thinking about, how can I create a circumstance or a relationship where it's not wearing me thin, where I am not anxious about having to speak to a certain person. There are times where we have a lot of power to change our circumstances, but we feel like, oh, I have to deal with this thing, I have to put up with this person's behavior. And very often we can say to them, hey, I understand that you want me to do something, but I can't do it now. A statement like that, they may not have heard that from you. They didn't even know. And very often our feelings are telling us you are tired, you are frustrated, you are mad, you're sad, you're upset. And we ignore it because we feel like we have to stay in this situation as it is.
- [06:48]
Yeah, I guess people get really used to the structure of their day and it's almost like that those little changes that would benefit you so much are harder to make than the bigger ones. I'm going to quit my job. Or that to me seems easier than, oh my gosh, I can make this decision for myself, change around these times change. To know that you can start setting your own rules for yourself and for other people I think is like a big realization for so many of us.
- [07:14]
I've always been an early riser, but when I became a mother, I realized, wow, my kids wake me up, they wake me up in the morning. And at first I was really frustrated and I was like, oh my gosh, like I just wanna sleep in. But then I realized I can get up before them. Yeah, I can take my power back. I can get up a little bit before them and just have a few moments of quiet. I can open my blinds and turn on my aromatherapy and be ready to greet them versus waking up in a panic. There is some control I can have even in this situation where I have to parent.
- [07:55]
If John's out of town, it is 100% that my kids will come into my room around like 4:30 in the morning when I could do something as simple as lock the door or say, please, can you wait till 6:30? Something like that. But since I do feel like I owe them something and have to be there when they're awake. I allow them to bother me for two, three hours at a time where I'm so uncomfortable, physically uncomfortable. Obviously, they're just nonstop touching at you, kicking at you because they want you to wake up, but they don't wanna say they want you to wake up. They are physically fighting in bed. And I just live my. The very beginnings of my day, so uncomfortable and upset. That doesn't set you up for a good day either. God, John is so good at it. He comes home, he'll tell them that they can only come in at a certain time, but he will lock both those doors to make sure that they don't come in at all. And for some reason, I feel like I belong to everybody and I belong to them, so I let it happen. If you were telling me this story or my friend were telling me this story, I'd be like, obviously, lock the fucking door. Are you crazy? Like, why do you let this go on for so long? But God damn it.
- [09:04]
Yeah, I think that's the guilt of boundaries.
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Yeah.
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There is a lot of guilt sometimes associated with locking a door, telling someone no or uncommitting to something that you committed to. There's, oh, my gosh, my kids are gonna hate me. Am I a good parent? I love them. Should I feel this way? Like, I really like my mom. I don't want her to. We think about all of these things. What will this person think about me? And it's, you are suffering. You are not showing up as your best self. You're not in that bed. Hey, come on, kids. You're like, be quiet. Stop.
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Don't miserable. A few hours.
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It'S, lock the door and let them greet you when you're rested and able to parent. Yeah.
- [09:50]
So on day one of the 30 day guide, you unpacked the concept of porous, rigid and healthy boundaries. Can you explain to my listeners what each of these things mean?
- [10:00]
Rigid boundaries are having high walls, not letting anyone in, having so many boundaries that we can barely have relationships. Some of us take boundaries to the unhealthy limit of keeping people out. Horace. Boundaries is when we allow everything in. We don't tell people no, we don't tell them to stop. We don't decline anything. We just let people have their way with us in the middle of that. There are healthy boundaries where we understand the importance of both a yes and a no. We understand that there are times where we can do things and when we can't. There are times when we have a kid in need and we might want to leave that door unlocked. And there are other times where we say, I need my rest and I need to lock it. So there is more flexibility within your boundary.
- [10:55]
Explain to me the importance of the Brene Brown quote. Clear is kind and how it impacts boundary setting.
- [11:01]
Sometimes we think that it's kinder to withhold what we need to say or to sugarcoat things, which actually prolongs problems with people when we allow them to go unchecked or we stick a pen in it, or we give like these bandage type solutions. When in actuality, just letting someone know what the scenario really is for you is really helpful. If you're having a problem with a friend, you had all those friends who were just like, okay, we'll just let her go through her stuff. And then what was actually helpful was the person who clearly said to you, hey, we will no longer have this dynamic where you hop in and hop out. I need you to be present and to be accountable. That was more effective than the people who were probably trying to be kind and not address the behavior.
- [11:57]
I mean, it took me 38 years of my life to be able to tell a hairdresser that I didn't like the hairstyle or could we change or could we do that? They want you to walk out happy. Get it together. Once I realized that dancing around subjects was actually detrimental to those around me, I was able to understand that being clear is better for everybody. I was actually doing everybody else a solid and a favor once I realized that it's going to be beneficial to them and still working on the beneficial to me part. But it really helped me along knowing that it was better for them.
- [12:35]
I think about that with social invites, how sometimes we do not say no. We'll say maybe or I'll see or especially in person. We're like, I'll be there. Yeah. And it's call them later and tell them I can't come. Because instead of just saying no, sometimes people are trying to just get an idea of how many people to plan for you. Saying no is kind to them because they're not sitting, setting out plates for a person who won't be there. They're not paying for an extra whatever for a person who won't be there. So isn't it very kind if you know that you can't make it to just let them know instead of leading them on, like, maybe I'm gonna try them. And I have two other things that day, so I'm gonna. After I finish that thing, I'm gonna just say no. It won't fit. There will be another opportunity and it is okay to let them know in advance so they can plan accordingly. So being clear, it's not just kind, it's also very helpful.
- [13:33]
Chrissy Teigen
Hey, it's Chrissy. Feeling today's conversation. Dig deeper with today's guest and hear more from all our groundbreaking guests on Audible. From bestsellers and new releases to podcasts and Audible originals, discover the next step on your journey. For a limited time, new customers can go to audible.com chrissyonaudible to get your first three months for only 99 cents a month.
- [13:57]
Nedra Glover Tawab
For somebody who struggles with saying no, what is a practical way they can start asserting their needs in small, everyday situations?
- [14:05]
How do we embody a no without saying no? Sometimes it's us not doing something. We don't have to say no. And there are other times where we may need to be very clear. I think sometimes we think we have to have difficult conversations when perhaps we need to take a different action. We think we have to say something to someone else when we actually need to do something ourselves. So in small ways, we can start to make some of those changes. If you notice that a friend is always late and you think this friend is like, this is what happens with them. And you tend to be prompt, you can just start moving that time up. Hey, it starts 30 minutes earlier and they get there. Actually, we'll have to sit a minute and wait. I just wanted you to be on time.
- [14:57]
I think my friend has already fished out my tactic there. And then she's even later.
- [15:04]
Yeah. So sometimes we do need to be very direct with our no. And sometimes we need to give people a no. But a no but is I can't do it this time. But how about this other thing that I am willing to do in this situation? So we can be very delicate with the no. And then there are some times where we absolutely need to be firm. But we know that we need to place boundaries because we're having a lot of frustration with our relationships. I think the thing that we complain about the most with people is typically the area where we need a boundary with them. So if you think about a person in your life and you have this running story of them, oh, my gosh, here she goes again, talking about whatever. If that's the thing that annoys you, you need to place a boundary with her. And that boundary could be, I won't listen past 10 minutes. You don't have to tell her, hey, you cannot talk about this thing with me. But after 10 minutes, you may need to say, okay, girl, I gotta call you back. That is your boundary.
- [16:03]
So figuring out I feel that so much. It's true. The people that you have this running story with, this ongoing annoyance with, that is where the boundary needs to be set.
- [16:14]
Yeah, but that is where the boundary is. It's like, oh, my gosh, there is something that I need to do differently in this relationship.
- [16:23]
Chrissy Teigen
Yeah.
- [16:23]
Nedra Glover Tawab
It's not this other person. Like, they need to stop talking about this or they need to do this. What is a strategy here for me to change my behavior and get a different result from them?
- [16:35]
So you make a distinction between setting boundaries and trying to change people. Can you explain why setting boundaries is a more effective way of protecting yourself than expecting someone else to change?
- [16:46]
When we change ourselves, that is the thing that we can control. We cannot control how other people show up. So when we're saying to someone, hey, can you step back? We will constantly have to say that to the person because that's not their particular boundary. We're trying to change them and say, you should want more space from people. You should want X, Y and Z. Like, we try to tell people, this is how you should show up in the world, when actually they're saying, I'm okay with how I show up. So we need to go into it and change the part of our behavior that we can in that dynamic. And if we are requesting that someone makes a change, we may have to repeat that to them. We may have to say it again because it's not their thing. It is our thing in particular. So we have to be clear that we're not trying to create many versions of ourselves in the world, that we're actually trying to create a scenario where we feel comfortable.
- [17:52]
What are some key do's and don'ts for starting difficult conversations? I need this one. Especially with people who may react negatively to boundaries being set.
- [18:03]
I'd love to hear how you start difficult conversations. What would you. With your hairdresser or anyone that you need to say something to your husband? Do you plan a time?
- [18:14]
Goodness. If it's something small and I'm really comfortable with the person, I'll just be like, do you think you could maybe. That's usually how I start with everything. Or if it's something small like a hair change or a makeup change or something, I'm, you know, they're some of my nearest and dearest friends. But I won't say I don't like this.
- [18:31]
Chrissy Teigen
I'll say, do you think you could.
- [18:33]
Nedra Glover Tawab
Maybe make it a little straighter or could you maybe? So it's like a lot of dancing around it and then I don't. I just do not have difficult conversations. It's. People think I'm like a highly confrontational person, but I really am not. I avoid because I had a childhood of having to make sure everyone else was okay all the time and never getting to speak up for any that I was ever having. Talking about rigid, I am really able to. If there is a conversation that is difficult enough to have, I will probably just never see that person again. I can be completely fine losing them. Nothing's addressed. Everything is just completely closed off. You're gone. And then I'll say the small little.
- [19:18]
Things you said do's and don'ts. So the first don't would be. Your boundary is not a question. Because if you're saying to someone, do you think you can. But you're actually trying to place a boundary. You are asking them for permission to have your boundary. Is it okay if I ask you this thing about me when in actuality, you need to make a statement. There should not be a why or a question mark or anything that will allude to you're not confident in what you're saying. And you don't have to be firm. Like, I need you to change my hair. Okay, great. It can be a whisper. It could be like, hey, oh my gosh, I'm so uncomfortable saying this. Like, you can say that. Oh, it makes me so uncomfortable to say this, but this bang is too long. Can you. I need you to cut it. I need you to cut the bank. So even if the can you. Oh, I need you to cut it. That is what you need to say. The can you. Will you. I was wondering, might you be able to. You do not have to have their permission. Particularly with your hair, your makeup, and many areas of your life, you are just making a statement about what you want, need, or desire.
- [20:48]
Chrissy Teigen
And now for the toolkit. Each episode, our guests distill their expertise into practical and actionable insights. Today, Ned drug lover Tawab shares strategies for creating healthy boundaries in our life and relationships.
- [21:01]
Nedra Glover Tawab
This first exercise is called the Mirror Affirmation exercise. And I learned this a few years ago when I went on a retreat and we were asked to lie down on the floor and just take a mirror and stare at ourselves saying positive things for ten minutes. I won't have you do it.
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Ten minutes.
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I won't have you do it for ten. But I do want you to do it at least for two So I want you to take that mirror, hold it up to your face, closer, get in there. And I want you to say some positive, kind, affirming things about you. It could be about your face, it could be about your personality, it could be about the life you've created. But I want you to take two minutes just to be kind to yourself.
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I'm turning like red at the mere thought of it out loud.
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Chrissy Teigen
Right.
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Nedra Glover Tawab
And I love when affirmations start with I am.
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I am a great mother.
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Chrissy Teigen
I am a great wife.
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Nedra Glover Tawab
I am.
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Chrissy Teigen
A great sister.
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Nedra Glover Tawab
I am really good at cooking. I handle chaos really well.
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Chrissy Teigen
I am really.
- [22:56]
Nedra Glover Tawab
Adaptable to different scenarios. I'm very good at crafting. I'm really good with kids.
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You have one more in you.
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I have overcome a lot in life.
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Okay, let's stop there. How did that feel?
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Emotional. Oddly emotional. I don't ever do that, obviously. It's just weird because I just. I grew up being really self deprecating and could never take a compliment or. And so it's just uncomfortable, we'll say, because you're being so not showy or braggy. But it's like it feels braggy to me to say that I like things about myself.
- [24:03]
This is not a part of the exercise, but I'm feeling it in my spirit. I would love for you to repeat after me. I am practicing being okay with not everyone liking me.
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I am practicing with being okay with everyone not liking me. Yeah, yeah, that's hard. I live thinking that I can change one person's mind at a time. And that's a tough life because it never ends. It never ends.
- [24:38]
You are not for everybody. Pound cake is not for everybody. Korean barbecue is not. I mean, I could go on and on. Everything is not for everyone. And it doesn't make it a bad thing, but it does mean I am not humorous to you. I am not a great parent for you. I am not your great partner. But it doesn't take away from you being all of those things that you're good at in your particular life. Let's move to the next exercise and for this one we will work on depersonalizing. What I would love for us to practice here is hearing you state some boundaries in an I format. So as you're doing this, what could be helpful is for you to use some sort of feeling language. I feel for you to observe what has happened in the situation between you and the other person and the impact it has had to you. Not necessarily focusing on what they're doing wrong, but more how you feel being in the dynamic, okay, let's use my father, for example.
- [25:52]
He raises his voice and yells when he speaks, but he doesn't even realize that he does it. But I don't want him speaking to the kids like that, like, at all.
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So if you want to use your father, you can. But I want you to practice using an I statement as a way to place some boundaries.
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I understand that you used to speak with a certain level of authority and tension in your voice with me growing up, but that's not the way that we do things with our children now. And I would prefer it, I would like it if you kept your voice down and to speak to them respectfully.
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I want to change the end of that so it's a little more firmed now. I would like, and I'm only saying this. Other people might could say, I would like, but for you, and you're like, might, perhaps I want you to go in a little more firm so that people can understand that you're serious about this. So you've given the I statement of I understand. Here is what I get from the scenario. This is how it impacts us. And you're going right into the boundary. So tell me that without the pretty please give me the boundary. So say it firmly.
- [27:10]
I would appreciate it if you didn't speak to the kids. I would appreciate it if you didn't. It was like, this would never. It's like it's never come out of me. I would appreciate it if you. Is it better to speak in, like, a positive then and not a negative? Like, maybe I would appreciate it if you spoke to the kids in a kind manner rather than. I would appreciate it if you didn't use that tone or level of anger in your voice. With my kids.
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I would appreciate it if you don't yell because that's what you want.
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Yeah, I would appreciate it if you didn't yell because.
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So here's the thing. When you try to, like, in a kind manner, this person might think they're being kind. By yelling, they're delivering a message that could be kind to them. We don't want to give them definition. We want to be very clear in what we're requesting. Let's try this again. I statement. So let's say that your father has anger in his voice. Perhaps the boundary can be around what you will do if you start to hear that sort of rising in him. You can start with I. I would.
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Appreciate it if you didn't raise your voice at me.
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This one is about what you can do if he does because he raises his voice.
- [28:37]
Okay, I'm going to take the kids and we're going to go somewhere if you continue to yell at us.
- [28:43]
Okay. How does that feel?
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It's just so anxiety inducing. And I feel like I could do that because instead of it erupting into a big fight where I say, stop yelling. Watch your tone. It feels like we might be able to get somewhere saying it in the I manner.
- [29:04]
I will do this. If you do that, this will be the consequence for that action. You don't even have to discuss, like, you're yelling right now and you just, this is what I said I would do, and so this is what I will do.
- [29:19]
But then what if they come back with the whole, like, I wasn't yelling. That's what always ends up happening is that's gaslighting.
- [29:25]
What? Oh, that's a whole other conversation. That's gaslighting. We can pull up a phone and the decibel amount while they're talking. Ha ha. IPhone said you were yelling. You don't want to prove to a person that they're yelling. And I think when we have an aggressive person in our life or somebody who's overly firm, we may want to monitor their ability to gaslight us because they can say, I wasn't yelling. I wasn't cursing you out. I was just cursing. I wasn't. Oh, okay. Now we're talking about things that are making me feel as if what I'm saying is invalid. And you're probably saying something very valid. So sticking to what you know in your years of being this person's daughter is really important. It's unpracticed. It's not gonna feel great at first, but when you get to about the 10th time, walking out the door when this starts to happen is going to feel like your new routine. And so boundaries are not very comfortable at first, but once you get into the rhythm of a regular practice, it becomes second nature.
- [30:35]
It really does feel. It's brand new.
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Yeah.
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A brand new feeling, a brand new conversation that in my. Whatever. How many years on this earth that I have not had.
- [30:45]
I will leave you with this. I think with family. Many adults are living a second childhood because they are not doing the uncomfortable thing because they've never done it. They're never standing up to their parent. They're never saying the thing that needs to be said. You can't yell at me. And matter of fact, I'm not even gonna say you can't yell at me. You won't have the ability to do it because I won't even be here. You'll be yelling at a plant because I'm gone. You're gonna be yelling at my plants. I'm outta here. Because what we will not repeat is more years of aggressiveness not continue along that path. We can be in relationship but it will be different because I'm an adult and you're an adult and we have to exist in a different way in our adulthoods.
- [31:39]
Nedra, thank you so much for being here on Self Conscious. Am perfectly uncomfortable but I feel like this was so incredibly helpful and all things I needed to hear. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you.
- [31:56]
You're welcome, foreign.
- [32:03]
Chrissy Teigen
Lover. Tawab I want to thank you for joining me here on self conscious. 30 days to better boundaries can be found on Audible. Until then, tune in, turn on and feel better. This is Chrissy Teigen and you've been listening to Self Conscious, an Audible original podcast. This has been an Audible original produced by Audible and Huntley Productions hosting hosted by Chrissy Teigen, Executive Producer for Huntley Productions Chrissy Teigen, Executive Producer for Audible Stacy Creamer Recorded and engineered by Alex Sky Mixed and mastered by Jeremiah Zimmerman Edited by Lisa Orkin Head of Creative Development at Audible Kate Navin Chief Content Officer Rachel Giazza Copyright 2024 by Audible Originals, LLC Sound Recording Copyright 202024 by Audible Originals LL.