RE-RELEASE: Holly Whitaker – 30 Days to a New Relationship With Alcohol

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Self-Conscious with Chrissy Teigen
Episode: RE-RELEASE: Holly Whitaker – 30 Days to a New Relationship With Alcohol
Date: August 21, 2025
Host: Chrissy Teigen
Guest: Holly Whitaker, author of Quit Like a Woman and 30 Days to a New Relationship With Alcohol (Audible original)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on reexamining one's personal relationship with alcohol, particularly from the lens of honesty, shame, and self-compassion. Host Chrissy Teigen and guest Holly Whitaker have a candid, vulnerable conversation about sobriety, relapse, the expectations others place on us, and developing healthier, more authentic ways to engage with challenges around alcohol. The discussion is rooted in Holly’s new Audible Original, which provides a unique, non-prescriptive, 30-day guide to reframing the role alcohol plays in one’s life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Chrissy’s Personal Journey with Sobriety and Relapse

• Chrissy Details Her Sobriety Journey
  • Chrissy shares that she stopped drinking four years ago, inspired in large part by Holly’s book, Quit Like a Woman, and enjoyed the early stages of sobriety for their excitement and novelty.
  • She describes the pride of hitting milestones (“I remember how proud I was when I hit a month, then six months and eventually a year.” [00:34])
  • After a period of sobriety (which extended through pregnancy), Chrissy began drinking again, not due to a dramatic event, but a gradual and considered decision.
• Complex Emotions Around Relapse
  • Coming out about drinking again is fraught with shame and fear of disappointing others. Chrissy admits to not even being able to look her therapist in the eye while discussing it.
  • "Even now, I can't look you in the eye and say that I did it or that I went back to it. That's like a childhood thing. Like, it's just really hard to disappoint people." (Chrissy Teigen, [04:04])
  • Chrissy grapples with the public nature of her journey and her deep aversion to disappointing not just loved ones, but followers and fans (“I always wanted to be really perfect growing up to everybody.” [04:30])
• The Role of Shame
  • “Shame is just the difference between the ideas that we have of ourselves and who we're supposed to be and what we actually are.” (Holly Whitaker, [06:30])
  • The conversation surfaces the heavy burden of shame, especially in the context of being a public figure tied to helping others achieve sobriety.

Reframing the Definition of Success and Failure

• Relapse as a Common Human Experience
  • Holly normalizes relapse, reminding Chrissy and listeners that “You’re doing what, you know, 95% of people that have a complicated relationship with alcohol do.” ([05:08])
  • There’s validation of the non-linear path of change: “No one ever said, now you’ve signed your name in blood here, and you can never change your mind.” (Holly Whitaker, [06:58])
• Letting Go of “Perfect Sobriety”
  • Chrissy expresses that the second time around, restarting sobriety "doesn't feel as exciting," and the drive from public accountability is diminished.
  • Both host and guest explore the fallacy of measuring worthiness by days sober or persistent abstinence.

Holly’s 30-Day Guide: Foundations and Intentions

• A New Approach
  • Holly describes her 30-day Audible program not as a rigid abstinence challenge, but as a framework for self-exploration, awareness, and reshaping one’s relationship with alcohol, “wherever you are on your journey.” ([01:45])
  • “The point of it is not to police people's behavior around drinking. We have so much of that going on already.” (Holly Whitaker, [16:25])
  • “All I want people to get out of it is to…feel a little bit better. Because a lot of our hell comes from sitting alone with our thoughts.” (Holly Whitaker, [15:14])
• Affirmations and Daily Practices
  • The guide is structured around daily affirmations*—*with the first being “I’m willing to start before I’m ready.” ([18:10])
  • Affirmations are crafted to build on each other, focusing on overarching themes like boundaries, self-trust, and recognizing that recovery is no one else’s business but your own.

Addressing Underlying Needs, Motives, and Coping

• Behavior as Adaptive
  • “People do things because they benefit them…our addictions are actually useful.” (Holly Whitaker, [20:22])
  • Holly encourages curiosity rather than condemnation: "You're using this. And when you look at it...you're not just, like, coming from this place of like, oh, shit, I need to fix this. But, like, well, I'm curious. Why am I doing that? What does it do for me?" ([20:22])
  • The approach is about identifying both the function and costs of alcohol, and considering alternatives for meeting those needs.

The Importance of Self-Compassion and Rest

• Harder on Ourselves Than Others
  • Both share struggles with extending compassion inward, despite being naturally empathetic outwardly.
  • “We are just so mean to ourselves. What you just told me is really mean…self-compassion is one of those things that like I don’t think I’m ever going to get.” (Holly Whitaker, [22:10])
• Sloth Breaks as Restorative Practice
  • Holly introduces the "sloth break," a deliberate day of rest and doing nothing, as an antidote to Type A overdrive and a substitute for the forced downtime of hangover days.
  • "You really try to go hardcore and maybe not even brush your teeth…just total sloth." (Holly Whitaker, [23:28])
  • Chrissy appreciates the explicit permission to rest: "I love that you give permission to people to do that because some of us need permission." ([24:14])

Allowing for Disappointment and Releasing Others’ Expectations

• Learning to Disappoint Others
  • Holly explores the critical self-development skill of tolerating others’ disappointment, especially when living authentically may go against others’ expectations:
  • “You could do everything right, and you’re still gonna disappoint people. Right. It comes back to the self compassion piece. Disappointing other people can sometimes be a great act.” ([25:15])
  • Chrissy ties this back to her fear of public judgment and how much that inhibits her.
• Gratitude for Growth in All Forms
  • They discuss Melody Beattie’s model of gratitude, which invites acknowledgment (not celebration) of even life’s most painful events, since transformation and empathy often emerge from hardship.
  • “It’s not about being great. Like, it’s not that bullshit. Be grateful for everything. You're not.” (Holly Whitaker, [27:45])
  • Chrissy reflects on her personal losses: “…I cannot see myself having survived being the same person that I was before all this.” ([27:45])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Vulnerability and Relapse:
  • “I just have a really hard time disappointing people.” – Chrissy Teigen ([03:51])
  • “People that are sober aren’t better than people that aren’t sober...The sober version of you isn’t better than the version of you that’s drinking right now.” – Holly Whitaker ([04:56])
• On Permission to Be Human:
  • “Your heart is just broken because you're not measuring up to it. ...I think, like, I'm punishing myself.” – Chrissy Teigen describes being haunted by her sobriety app ([13:32])
• On Acceptance:
  • "Can you tell me what is wrong with what your approach is right now?" – Holly Whitaker prompts Chrissy to confront her self-judgment ([14:28])
• On Social Pressure:
  • “I'll see people in my mind, they're like, oh, she's drinking again.” – Chrissy Teigen on the sense of being monitored by others ([12:04])
• On Adaptive Behavior:
  • “People do things because they benefit them…our addictions are actually useful.” – Holly Whitaker ([20:22])
• On Self-Compassion:
  • “I have so much compassion for people being fucked up but not for myself.” – Holly Whitaker ([22:23])
• On Disappointing Others:
  • “You could do everything right, and you’re still gonna disappoint people.” – Holly Whitaker ([25:15])

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Key Segment Timestamps

• Chrissy’s personal struggle and return to drinking: 00:34 – 04:43
• Deep dive on shame and self-perception: 06:24 – 09:39
• Releasing perfectionism and social/cultural expectations: 10:02 – 13:00
• Processing relapse and reframing self-judgment: 13:13 – 14:43
• Introducing Holly’s 30-day Audible guide: 15:02 – 17:00
• Affirmations and their purpose in recovery: 17:53 – 20:08
• Understanding behavior and “usefulness” of addiction: 20:08 – 22:10
• Conversation on self-compassion: 22:10 – 23:25
• Sloth breaks and intentional rest: 23:25 – 24:28
• Learning to disappoint people and practicing gratitude: 24:51 – 28:32
• Toolkit: Sitali (Ctali) breath exercise for cravings: 29:27 – 33:08

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Toolkit Segment: Practical Exercise

Sitali (Ctali) Breath for Managing Cravings ([29:27 – 33:08])

Holly guides Chrissy through a cooling, grounding breath used both in moments of craving and to quell anxiety.

Instructions:

• Sit upright, enabling full breath.
• Purse your lips as if sucking through a straw; breathe in through pursed lips, drawing breath over the tongue into the belly.
• Exhale out through the nose.
• Repeat for 1-3 minutes, or as needed.

“It's a breath that I use to essentially trigger the same kind of release that I get if I am using something to take the edge off.” – Holly Whitaker ([29:27])

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Takeaways

• Complex relationships with alcohol are common and evolving; relapse is not moral failure.
• Shame and social expectations often pose greater challenges than substance itself.
• Self-compassion, rest, and permission to disappoint are necessary, and healing is a cyclical, non-linear process.
• Meaningful change comes not just from abstinence, but from ongoing self-reflection and kindness to oneself.
• Holly’s 30-day program does not dictate abstinence, but offers a compassionate daily practice for anyone questioning their habits, with tools that can help beyond alcohol.

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If you have wrestled with self-worth, relapse, shame, or doubted that you're allowed to be imperfect in your journey toward growth, this episode provides both powerful permission and practical guidance.

Transcript

[Chrissy Teigen]

Hey, it's Chrissy. Dig deeper with today's guest and hear more from all our groundbreaking guests on Audible. From bestsellers and new releases to podcasts and Audible Originals, discover the next step on your journey. Go to audible.com chrissyonaudible.

You'Re listening to.

Self Conscious with Chrissy Teigen, an Audible original podcast.

[Narrator/Host]

Join me as we explore the cutting.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Edge of health, wellness, and personal growth.

[Narrator/Host]

With the world's leading experts and thinkers.

[Chrissy Teigen]

From inspiring stories to actionable insights, our.

Conversations aim to help you lead a healthier, happier, and more productive life. Four years ago, I decided to stop drinking. It wasn't just about the hangovers or the embarrassing moments. It was about wanting to be more present, more control of my life, and more connected to the things that truly matter. I realized that drinking wasn't serving me anymore. It was holding me back. The book that really inspired me to take this step was Quit Like a Woman by Holly Whitaker. The powerful memoir and recovery manifesto challenged the way that we think about alcohol and addiction, especially for women. Through her raw and honest storytelling, Holly shed light on the deeply ingrained cultural norms that glorify drinking and often leave us trapped in destructive patterns. For two years, I didn't have a drop. I remember how proud I was when I hit a month since I six months and eventually a year. But then I started drinking again. There was no big dramatic moment.

It hasn't really been an issue in.

The way that it was before, but I know deep down it still feels wrong. And if I were to listen to my inner voice, I would stop again.

And that's where it all gets very complicated.

But it's also the perfect segue to talk about Holly's audible original 30 days to a New Relationship with Alcohol, which actually seems like it was created just for me in this very specific the series isn't about counting drinks or advocating for total abstinence, but rather about diving deep into the unconscious patterns that keep us stuck in behaviors we might want to change. Over the course of 30 days, Holly guides listeners through daily meditations and actionable tips designed to help them reassess and reshape their relationship with alcohol. Meeting them wherever they are on their journey. It's a continuation of her mission to empower individuals with the tools they need to live more authentic and fulfilling lives. Holly Whitaker welcomed the self conscious.

I loved the initial journey of being sober. Yeah, and it felt very big and it felt almost like exciting and fun.

[Holly Whitaker]

Totally.

[Chrissy Teigen]

I made the choice. I just remember looking at my therapist one day and being like, I Have such a wonderful, blessed life. And it kills me that I can't have an aperol spritz or something if we're in Italy. And, you know, John drinks, and he's very mindful with it, though, and it doesn't at all do to him what it does to me. But I was like, we get to do all these amazing things, like, why can't I have a drink? So we talked about it for months, and, like, I had this plan that I was going to have my drink and I was going to talk about it after. This is after over a year of being sober. I. I was sober for a year, and then I got pregnant. So sober. And then we talked about it, and I was telling him my plan to go back to it and how I would do it really carefully and mindfully and.

[Holly Whitaker]

Was he scared?

[Chrissy Teigen]

No, he was more happy that I was honest about it because, like, I really don't like disappointing people. I was scared to even tell you, and I haven't even told the world yet. I haven't, like, jumped on Instagram or anything. And it. And I do feel like I should because I shared that journey of that.

[Holly Whitaker]

Oh, this is so such a great Y.

[Chrissy Teigen]

And it sucks to, like, not be able to. Well, I guess I can, but I have a really hard time disappointing people.

[Holly Whitaker]

And you're gonna disappoint people, are you. You haven't even said, what are you saying? Like, can you say what you're saying?

[Chrissy Teigen]

Well, I mean, I'm drinking again. Even in those therapy sessions, I couldn't look at my therapist during it. Like, I put a blanket fully over my head, and I said it in the way that I had similarly said to him years ago, I did drugs. I can't look someone in the eye and say. Even now, I can't look you in the eye and say that I did it or that I went back to it. That's like a childhood thing. Like, it's just really hard to disappoint people.

[Holly Whitaker]

Right? Like, to make people feel ashamed of you.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yes. Yes. Like, I always wanted to be really perfect growing up to everybody, and it's.

[Holly Whitaker]

Still, like, it feels really shameful when you say so shameful. Oh, Holly, After I went out on Instagram and I told everybody for you, that I wasn't drinking, and now I'm drinking again. And now you're in this podcast in my home about this other book that you're right. And.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah.

[Holly Whitaker]

And I'm drinking again. I bet you felt like shit about that.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah.

[Holly Whitaker]

Okay.

[Chrissy Teigen]

But knowing that I Can. And still knowing that, like, I'm not having fun with it.

[Holly Whitaker]

But let's. But, like, that's. But let's stick with this part, right? So I think, like, it's so beautiful. It's like, thank you for saying it. And, like, saying it. You. You don't seem like you're just doing you. You're doing something you did. You're just talking about something that you did, which actually, it really isn't tied to good or bad. Like, you know that, right? People that are sober aren't better than people that aren't sober. People that don't drink aren't better than people that drink. The sober version of you isn' better than the version of you that's drinking right now, or the version that was, like, drinking before. First thing I want to acknowledge is thank you for using this to, like, this discussion. And, like, using your own. Your own natural course of like, which, by the way, reflects everyone else's natural course. You know, that, like, it's just not even unique at all. It's like an experience that a lot of people secretly have because they're so proud. This. You had this version of you that felt respectable, more respectable, maybe, or, like, maybe more together, and now you're not that. And maybe you helped people get. Like, there's all sorts of stuff that are tied into it. So I fully understand it, and I want it. Like, the first thing I want to say is, like, great. You're doing what, you know, 95% of people that have a complicated relationship with alcohol do.

[Chrissy Teigen]

And it is so hard to come out about that second part. Right?

[Holly Whitaker]

Like, the second part. Not the first part.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah. It was so exciting and so cool to me, and now I'm like, well, I messed up. Like, in my mind, I messed up. I went back and, like, what am I gonna say again? Like, it's not even exciting to get sober again. And, like, one of the things that really launched me was the excitement of it.

[Holly Whitaker]

Totally.

[Chrissy Teigen]

And I'm gonna make this big change. And now there's no, like, big, exciting change. It's like, oh, I'll try it again.

[Holly Whitaker]

So I think there's a couple of things here. First, like. And the shame piece is really a big piece of this, right? Because it's tied into so much else. And I have been researching shame recently, and I love this concept. It's the difference between. Shame is just the difference between the ideas that we have of ourselves and who we're supposed to be and what we actually are. Right. And so it's this, like, falling short of who we think we're supposed to be. And so there's this idea that you have that you're supposed to be, what, like, picked and just never drink. You made this one decision that was on the heels of a very different relationship with alcohol and a very different version of you. And, like, having come out, you know, I know a little bit of your story from Instagram. I don't know a ton. But I do know that you'd just been through something horrible and that this was, like, this was a real thing that you experienced in a real, true healing. And no one ever said, now you've signed your name in blood here, and you can never change your mind and that you'll be failing this commitment you made, what, five years ago, when you inevitably evolve and become a different person with, like, a different set of coping mechanisms. There's so much different in your life than there was the first time you quit. And so you are expecting this, like, pop of, I need to catch that long wind to come back to it. I think that a lot of times we look at that, and we did. Especially if we're people that are pleasers and, like, we're people that love to do really good and we hate messing up, we can look to that and we can be like, that was the perfect event, right? And I need to go back to that to recreate it. And actually, that was a totally different version of you. You're at a different place now. You're a different person now, and you have to meet this. You can't try and meet it with a plan from five years ago, right? It can't be enough that you just hate alcohol. It can't be enough that you just don't like it, right? Because if it was enough, then you wouldn't be asking the questions that you're asking or having the feelings that you're feeling. So, I mean, like, so what do you. What do you want to do? Like, do you know?

[Narrator/Host]

I still don't know.

[Chrissy Teigen]

I'm in this. Like, I don't even know if I'm ready to quit again or if I. All I know for sure is it makes me feel like shit, okay? And I hate the taste of it. It ruins my meals. The shame of, like, you know, the next day, like, what did I say? What did I do? That used to be enough? Because I was like, when I got rid of that feeling, it actually took me, like, even after I got sober, it took me, like, three months to even realize that, oh, no, I wasn't drunk last night. Like, I kept every time I. And it was also really interesting that I still was myself when I was sober. I still made faux pas with big celebrities or something, and I'd be so embarrassed about. But those obviously were so much less frequent. And it was weird to even come to terms with that feeling that, like, oh, no, I wasn't drinking last night. I'm okay. I didn't do anything dumb. That took me a long time to realize, but, yeah, just not having that feeling after waking up, of shame. It's really. Shame is the big word.

[Holly Whitaker]

Shame is the big word. Yeah, for sure.

[Chrissy Teigen]

So I. So do you.

[Holly Whitaker]

I guess. Here's the question. Is shame the bigger problem than the drinking right now?

[Chrissy Teigen]

Probably, yeah.

[Holly Whitaker]

Sounds like it.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah.

[Holly Whitaker]

Okay.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Alcohol sucks, man.

[Holly Whitaker]

It really does. And also, it's everywhere.

[Chrissy Teigen]

It's so everywhere. And it's so tied to what we.

[Holly Whitaker]

The best ideas of our lives, right? Like, the best moments, like, we.

[Chrissy Teigen]

I just have, you know, like, pretty crippling anxiety. And so when we were going out to big events and stuff and seeing all these cute moments that people think are so funny, all these memes of me passed out, passed out at the Oscars, alcohol making my cry face when John won a Golden Globe. Drunk, wasted. And I. I drank a lot for those events. I realized, like, it was. It was. Cause it was in a room.

[Holly Whitaker]

So this gets me to where I want to go to. So I think, like, so there's two things with this, right? I think the first is, like, it feels like right now your bigger issue is dealing with the shame, right? And the shame probably makes you want to drink, or it makes it harder to navigate the clear, direct relationship with it, right? And so I think, like, you can give yourself a little pass here and be like, I don't have to solve alcohol today, right? But maybe I'm gonna look over here at how shame is showing up and, I don't know, question that and work with that. I think that's a really big piece, and I think that that's a really big growth up. We're not trying to be perfect. You're not trying to achieve sainthood. But a lot of it gets conflated with that, right? Right now you're in this, like, classic bind of, you did something that was really important for your health and your wellbeing and a lot of other people's health and wellbeing. My friend Greta always says that I enacted a mass healing. You enacted healing by sharing my work and sharing your story, you really did. You Changed a lot of people's lives by that. And I know because I get a lot of their letters and people still come up to me and say, I found your book because of Chrissy T. Again. You know, half a million copies have been sold and you've saved a lot of lives. Right. And so I think there's this really big beautiful thing that you did. Right. And you also made these really honest and raw choices and were very vulnerable with the public. And that's just such a beautiful thing. You were very generous with your story. Right. And you don't owe anything to that.

[Chrissy Teigen]

I do feel like I do owe it to people too.

[Holly Whitaker]

What do you think you owe them?

[Chrissy Teigen]

I will have a glass of wine at a restaurant and I'll look around, I'll see people in my mind, they're like, oh, she's drinking again.

[Holly Whitaker]

Yeah, they probably for sure.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah. Take my team out to dinner or something. They'll be like, oh miss, we have like a mocktail list for you. And I look at them.

[Holly Whitaker]

Oh my God.

[Chrissy Teigen]

And when I look at them, cuz they've heard and I look at them and I say, oh no, I'm drinking again. It's like a gut punch.

[Holly Whitaker]

You have to disappoint the like people that are at the restaurants.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah, that's so much for sure. But I think it will help for this to come out and for me to admit to this because right now it's just all on me. And it just feels like this big burden on me and this big secret. Nothing has ever gone right in my life. If I weren't fully transparent with people about something, I know that people are gonna be really kind about it and they will extend to me a lot of grace. Because this is how it works, right? There's like ebbs and flows and. And yeah, it's my big shameful secret.

[Holly Whitaker]

It is your big shameful secret. But I also want to draw this back to. This is about you.

[Chrissy Teigen]

But I was able to quit when it wasn't about me. That's the problem.

[Holly Whitaker]

But it has to be eventually about you.

[Chrissy Teigen]

I know. It's almost like I have to psych myself into think it's that it's for something else again or it's for them. Yeah, yeah, I'd rather do it for them than me. Which is a whole nother therapy session.

[Holly Whitaker]

Totally.

[Chrissy Teigen]

I mean I have a. I have like a sobriety app that's still is.

[Holly Whitaker]

Taunting you with the days.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yes. That don't exist.

[Holly Whitaker]

Who gives shit. Right?

[Chrissy Teigen]

But like four years. Congratulations. It Launches confetti.

[Holly Whitaker]

Your heart is just broken because you're not measuring up to it.

[Chrissy Teigen]

And I let it keep going. I haven't deleted it. I'm like, why don't I delete it? I think, like, I'm punishing myself. And I think that it, when I look at it, I'm like, hopefully, like, I'll get mad enough to stop again. Maybe it'll, it'll congratulate me and, and it'll say like, how did you do today? And you're supposed to check in with it. And I just swipe up and, and, and let it say this stuff to me. And it's so frustrating and I can't believe I even let it do this to me all the time. But I'm hoping that deep down that it'll, it'll just finally get to me and I'll break and I'll be like, I'm doing, I'm gonna do it again. I'm gonna go sober again. But then I don't, I, I, I, I also know that, like, if I get sober again, it's probably not going to be my last drink. I can see that. I'll go sober again. Yeah, maybe for a year. I guess I haven't really come to terms with am I ready to have the last drink of my life?

[Holly Whitaker]

And you might not ever. And I guess my question to you is, can you tell me what is wrong with what your approach is right now?

[Chrissy Teigen]

I just know that I hate alcohol.

[Holly Whitaker]

Okay, great.

[Chrissy Teigen]

It makes me feel like shit.

[Holly Whitaker]

Okay, great.

[Chrissy Teigen]

I hate the taste of it.

[Holly Whitaker]

Yeah, it's, there's all sorts of crap about alcohol. It's terrible. Yeah, I hate it too.

[Chrissy Teigen]

On like the simple level, I'm like, that should be enough.

[Holly Whitaker]

You're saying it should be enough, but the reality of the situation is, right, it's not enough. Otherwise you wouldn't be, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Right?

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah, I know.

[Narrator/Host]

Okay, I'm glad we addressed the elephant in the room about my drinking. Let's talk about your audible original. What do you hope listeners will get from completing the 30 day journey?

[Holly Whitaker]

I think that, you know, a lot of the stuff that we've talked about is something far off in the future, like the fixing thing, and then you'll be good, you know, and so much about this is participation and only participation and just the act of actually engaging with something that's terrifying right now. If you picked this up and you being in the situation that you're in actually would be perfect. Right. And you just start Listening to it all I want people to get out of it is to like, you probably feel a little bit better having had this conversation. Yeah, that's what I want people to get out of it. I want them to feel a little bit better. Because a lot of our hell comes from sitting alone with our thoughts. And a lot of our goodness comes from sitting with the heavy stuff or looking at it and sorting through it. And it feels so much better once we do that. Right. And so for me, people are going to be changed. Like it's a guide that will change your behavior, change your outlook. In the same way, I think when you engage with anything, people will get a lot of by just participating in and not having to actually achieve something at the end to prove that they've done it right.

[Narrator/Host]

In the 30 day journey, will people still be drinking?

[Holly Whitaker]

I don't care. The point of it is not to police people's behavior around drinking. We have so much of that going on already. It is really, like I said, I hope people just use it. It is written in a way. I have used days and affirmations like this for years with people to help them change their behavior. And it is one of those things where it literally is like, we're gonna talk about everything else but the shitty thing, you know, so you get to actually engage and experience some kind of shift and change. But it's not the grueling, you know, the scary crappy stuff.

[Chrissy Teigen]

You remind me of my therapist when I first actually like told him that I was drinking again and I expected this big, huge reaction. Like, oh, like just I expected him to be so bummed out and so mad at me and he was just like, I don't care.

[Holly Whitaker]

Okay, well, I mean people like imagine I have a lot of friends that go in and out or I just have had so many people break to me over the years that they're drinking again. And I'm like, I love you so much. And I actually now even tell people, hey, if you read my book and you change your relationship with alcohol, just know I don't care. I really care about your well being and I hope that you get something about this. But I don't give a shit whether or not you drink or don't. It's not up to me, buddy. You know, so yeah, like, so you are so. You are so you're drinking again. That's a fact.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Each day of the 30 day guide is anchored with a specific affirmation. What was your guiding principle in choosing them?

[Holly Whitaker]

Yeah, for 10 years I've been writing affirmations and essays for people. Like, narrative is really important, like hearing someone else's story, right. Along with some kind of easy thought that you can repeat throughout the day. An affirmation. You know what an affirmation. Have you used affirmations before?

[Chrissy Teigen]

I love doing it when I do it.

[Holly Whitaker]

Totally. Yeah. So you listen. You do it while you listen in this case. Right. But the point is, for years I have been doing this and working the affirmations that I've chosen. Again, it goes back to a lot of what we've been talking about, which is we don't have to just talk about the alcohol and the consumption. We're going to talk about all this other stuff that goes into why we use certain coping mechanisms. Right. Rather than just talking about the coping mechanism. And so these are all of these from this. Some of them are old, some of them are new, but they are. They're. They're really written in a way to kind of create a journey. You know, the first affirmation is, I'm willing to start before I'm ready. And we talk about the importance of starting things before we feel like we're ready. Right. But maybe not too soon. Right. Like, not. But starting before we're ready. So that gets us into it. And then we start moving through just like, really key and core concepts about trusting the process. Seeing challenges as, you know, like, not obstacles, but just the path that you're on. But really, each of the affirmations are built in order to kind of day over day, give the listener a chance to, I think, like, there's a ton of repetition involved. Gives them a chance to go out into the world, practice the affirmations, and also be changed by them, and then come back the next day and find something that's maybe complementary to what they were practicing the day before or furthers that lesson. So they're built on each other, right? And so one of them might be, you know, how we recover is no one else's business. So that's one of them. And it's, you know, all about, like, what other people's opinions are of the substances or whatever it is that I'm doing with my body is like, it's not their business, right? It's this reclamation. Well, what does that have to do? It has to do with boundaries. So the next day we stay on boundaries and we work with what other kind of boundaries we can extend into. And again, this is not about drinking, how much you're putting into your body. It's about all the Stuff that kind of goes around that.

[Narrator/Host]

For me, one of the most interesting parts of the audible original is day nine, which begins with the mantra that our behaviors make sense. Can you unpack what that means? And that our addictions are actually useful.

[Holly Whitaker]

People do things because they benefit them. And what I've heard from you so far is you've said that it turns it down, it makes it softer just a little bit. It makes your life easier. That's lovely, right? I'm assuming there are many, many different things that you could come up with that are the reasons that you're using alcohol or the reasons that you haven't made the change that you think you're supposed to change. Right. But all of these things start to kind of normalize and help us to actually get in touch with. Well, it does this for me. It helps with my social anxiety when I'm in a crazy situation. Maybe it helps you unwind. Maybe it helps you be more, you know, when you have to be on, you have to be on. You have to perform, you know, all the time. So it helps you do. It helps you live your life. There's things about it that are very beneficial to you, and we discount that because we're so. A lot of times we think, well, that's just reinforcing it and making it okay. And like, it is okay. You're using this. And when you look at it, like, when we. When we like, you know, kind of can inhabit, like, our adult self in this. We're not just, like, coming from this place of like, oh, shit, I need to fix this. But, like, well, I'm curious. Why am I doing that? What does it do for me? Does these things. Do I want to get it from this source? Is alcohol the source? I want to be providing this, or could I get this? Or maybe could I do some different things to change how, you know, anxious I get before. Could I do something to offset the anxiety? Right. So you understand all the reasons you're using it. You decide, is this the tool I want to use? Because there's also negative things that are associated with it. And how else might I achieve. Turning the volume down and turning the volume down might be, you know, getting deep with some of the shame stuff and, like, casting it off.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Discuss with me the importance of self compassion in this process.

[Holly Whitaker]

I was just talking about self compassion with my friend this morning because I've not really. I've been really, really fucking hard on myself recently.

[Chrissy Teigen]

You can so easily extend it to others. Like, it's so clear to me.

[Holly Whitaker]

I Can I have so much compassion for people being fucked up but not for myself? It's very hard for me. Yeah, thank you for saying that. But anyway, I just, I feel like compassion, self compassion is one of these things. We are just so mean to ourselves. What you just told me is really mean. It's just we're so fucking mean to ourselves. And I feel like not everything is, you know, always a thing to be working on. I'm really tired of always being in process. I'm sure you are too. And I don't want to just be a thing that I'm always working on. But I feel like self compassion is one of those things that like I don't think I'm ever going to get it, you know, And I think that's okay. And I think that the path to really giving ourselves, you know, I see you too. I see how you love people and you're actually like, you are a very generous, inclusive, forgiving person. That's your spirit. You love people, right? It is, it's really hard to give to ourselves. And I think like for people like us, I think a lot of people end up, you know, with addictions that are very sensitive people.

[Chrissy Teigen]

So tell me what a sloth break is and why is it important that we take them?

[Holly Whitaker]

That's such a good question. Thanks for asking for me. Like it goes back to like a really good example is back when I was drinking. I would love hangover days because I would just stay in bed, get stoned, eat all the food, you know, like just fuck off all weekend. And I am a type A, always doing. You know, the only time I ever gave myself a break was when I was like self induced sickness and I missed hangovers because of that. One of the hardest things that you can tell someone to do. So I've built this, I've built this into a lot of the processes I've done with clients for years of just like in the middle of our process we just completely check out. We take a day where we do nothing. You really try to go hardcore and like maybe not even brush your teeth and stain. Like it's just total sloth, right? Like just allowing yourself to completely let your nervous system replenish. Right.

[Chrissy Teigen]

And I love that you give permission to people to do that because some of us need permission.

[Holly Whitaker]

You need permission and you need someone sometimes to really like. I mean I work one on one with clients sometimes and I'm just like, you really have to like consec to work and you really have to stay in bed all Day, like you really.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Have to do that, you know, can't even fathom it. I'm so excited for my sloth break. Let's talk about this idea of being willing to disappoint people. You know, this is a big one for me. You say that what I think I owe to people and what I actually owe to people are two different things. Explain to me what this means as well as the importance of actually disappointing people.

[Holly Whitaker]

Yeah, I mean, I think like kind of just off of what I was just saying about the impossibility of living today. Right. It's impossible. There's no way, right. That we are going to be people that don't disappoint people and also have full lives. Right. I think, like, I was just talking about this because I mean, the affirmation is I'm willing to disappoint people. And it really, like I just said, like, I don't disappoint myself, I disappoint other people. Right. Not as a. I'm a really good friend and community member, but I mean in the sense of like in those situations where you're making a choice that's totally letting you down and you're making it to not disappoint someone. We naturally let people down by drinking again, by not living up to someone's standards, by not returning a phone call, by not remembering a birthday, by not showing up in the way we, you know, by like you could do everything right, and you're still gonna disappoint people. Right. It comes back to the self compassion piece. Disappointing other people can sometimes be a great act. Like allowing ourselves to disappoint other people and not disappointing ourselves and being able to just live with that. Right. It's being an adult is living with the fact that people are disappointed with you. Right. But also the self compassion piece is, I don't know, not feeling disappointed. Even though it hurts a little to disappoint someone, not feeling disappointed in yourself.

[Chrissy Teigen]

You know, not having it weigh you down for days on end. Yeah.

[Holly Whitaker]

Yeah.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Oh, I can't imagine one day we'll get there. You discuss how practicing gratitude, even for the shitty things, can be really powerful. How so?

[Holly Whitaker]

You know, this is something that comes from Melody Beatty's work. She's the lady that wrote the codependency book. Codependency no More. Her practice of gratitude. Because gratitude's pretty hard for me, right? Like, like I can't just. I'm not just a gratitude list maker. My life hasn't been changed by gratitude. In this grand way that, like, I feel. So anyway, I have a complicated relationship to it, but I also know it works. Right. And Melody Beatty came up with this process of, you're writing out a gratitude list every night, but you're not writing out, you know, kittens and blueberries and, you know, baths. You're also like, that I'm in, you know, that I'm a raging bulimic and I haven't gotten help yet. That. That I cheated on my husband and, like, you know, he's leaving me. And, you know, whatever it is, you're writing down, like, the real, real shit, you know, of stuff you're not grateful for, stuff you wish was not happening. And Melody Beatty draws a distinction. Right. I believe she lost a son. Right. And she is very clear that, like, it's not about being great. Like, it's not that bullshit. Be grateful for everything. You're not. I'm grateful someone got hurt. Right. But you're. You're using it as a way to bring in the stuff you really don't want to be facing. Because you don't know.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah.

[Holly Whitaker]

You don't know. Like, the best things turn into the worst things. So often the worst things turn into the best things. And we don't know, but we concretize so hard.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah. And, like, I'm like, absolutely a better person for the terrible things that have happened to me. Yeah. Like, would I be thankful, like, oh, so, so grateful I lost my baby? Like, no, of course. But my God, my life has changed for dramatically, dramatically the levels of empathy I have for people, like, the different treatments and programs that I've gotten to go through with, like, mental health wise. And the way I think and operate and the way I move is so vastly different and that I would never want it to happen again, but I would have. I cannot see myself having survived being the same person that I was before all this.

[Holly Whitaker]

So I think, like, for me, I try and incorporate into my life. Like, when I do gratitude lists and I actually do this practice a lot, I just write a list out and it's just like, all the things I love. And it's also like. And when I said that thing the other day to that woman, you know, just this stuff that you really rake yourselves over the coals or that you feel so bad about or so cringey about, you just are like, you're blessing it, you know, because that's in there, too. You're here today because of that stuff, too.

[Narrator/Host]

And now for the toolkit. Each episode, our guests distill their expertise into practical and actionable insights. Today, Holly Whitaker shares an essential breathing exercise for managing a craving.

[Holly Whitaker]

So I'm going to lead you through an exercise that's going to help you manage a craving. This is actually a breath that I learned in my own Kundalini training. It's called Ctali breath. And it's something that is really easy to access. And actually, for me, I. You know, for me, I really, really need to work with my nervous system and grounding. This is a really, like, it's a yummy breath. How I experience it is basically, it makes my body feel heavier, it makes me want to yawn. I. It kicks off my parasympathetic nervous system. I think all breathing does it, all intentional breathing does. But this specifically is a breath that I use to essentially trigger the same kind of release that I get if I am using something to take the edge off. Right, and so you're going to use this when you are having that sense of feeling like I might punch my fist through if I don't get it. Like, whatever it is, like, you know, that strong sign, I need to turn it off now.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Even the acknowledgement that you have a craving is so big because I find so often that I don't acknowledge that time. It's like, I want a drink and I'm having that drink.

[Holly Whitaker]

Totally you don't. And in between times, that space is so big. It's so big. So big it is, because it gives you a second to actually make a choice, even if the choice is the same one you were gonna make automatically. And so this is part of that. You can use this as a way to access that space. This could be, I have a craving, I use this breath and then I access my space. So it could just be a thing that you use. But it's also something that when you are. When you're in a craving and you just need yourself to kind of move through to the other side, this is a really good tool to use. It's also incredibly good to use before parties. So it's something that I used before I got here today, and I also use it when I'm upregulated. So we're gonna start. This one is something that, like, I set a timer and sometimes I'll do it for a minute to three minutes so you don't have to get your posture right or anything. You do wanna try and allow yourself so that you have access to your diaphragm. You don't wanna be like slouched over or slumped. You're just trying to basically maybe sit as much as you can on your sits bones or, like, your butt to kind of get that erect spine so you just have more room in your rib cage. But you don't have to get this part right. Like, don't worry about this. But that's just one little tip that could make you access breath better. I like to pull my chin in. I like to kind of straighten my, you know, neck out just so I am signaling to myself that I am here. I'm a rod. I'm ready. And then you're sucking air in through your lips. So it's just like that. So. Yep. So you got it like you're holding a piece of paper through your lips, and now you're gonna breathe in, and then you're gonna exhale out through the nose.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Do you suck it in through the lips?

[Holly Whitaker]

Through the lips, down the. Yeah. So you're gonna breathe the breath in. You got it through the, like, to the stomach and then out the nose. And a lot of times you'll feel this need to yawn because your energy shifts so much by doing this breath. So you've just done, like, five rounds. Maybe do one more again. It's just pulling the air in through purse lips, down the back of the throat into the belly, and then breathing out through the nose. So how do you feel?

[Chrissy Teigen]

Good. That feels way better than the normal breathing. I find myself very shaky in, like, the meditation type breathing. It's like I'm breathing, and here's me inhaling and here's me. But I like that. And it's more of a job.

[Holly Whitaker]

It's really subtle, and you're using. It's the way the breath is coming in. It's a cooling breath.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Yeah.

[Holly Whitaker]

And it's the way you're bringing it and drawing it over the tongue. Your body receives it as this, like, loosener.

[Chrissy Teigen]

It's very activating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, even my eyes are, like, bleary.

[Holly Whitaker]

Yeah. It's one of my favorites. And so this is what I use to typically quell my anxiety and ground my body.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Holly Whitaker, I want to thank you so much for being here and joining me on self Conscious.

It's such an honor to have in my home here in person when you've.

Truly done so much for me and so many people out there.

[Holly Whitaker]

Thank you.

[Chrissy Teigen]

Holly Whitaker's 30 days to a New Relationship with Alcohol is available on audible. Until then, tune in, turn on, and feel better. This is Chrissy Teigen, and you've been listening to Self Conscious an Audible Original Podcast this has been an Audible original produced by Audible and Huntley Productions, hosted by Chrissy Teigen, Executive Producer for Huntley Productions Chrissy Teigen, Executive Producer for Audible Stacy Creamer Recorded and engineered by Alex Guy Mixed and mastered by Jeremiah Zimmerman Edited by Lisa Orkin Head of Creative Development at Audible Kate Navis, Chief Content Officer Rachel Giazza Copyright 2024 by Audible Originals, LLC. Sound Recording Copyright 2024 by Audible Original.