Gianmarco Soresi

Summary

Podcast Summary: Senses Working Overtime with David Cross

Episode: Gianmarco Soresi
Release Date: May 15, 2025
Host/Author: Headgum
Duration: Approximately 80 minutes

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1. Introduction and Setting the Stage

The episode begins with the hosts, identified as "A," "B," and occasionally "C," skipping the initial advertisements to dive into personal narratives and comedic discussions. They set a casual and conversational tone, preparing listeners for an engaging and humorous exploration of various topics.

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2. Familial Relationships and Personal Histories ([02:14] - [10:36])

Discussion Points:

• Parental Honesty: Both hosts share anecdotes about their fathers being habitual liars, touching on issues like heritage misrepresentation and infidelity.

Notable Quotes:

• "He told me it was my name was pronounced Gian Marco and it's John Marco. Any Italian would say, it's John Marco, but he said, no, it's Gian because he liked it more. He's a liar." – Host A [02:48]

• "My dad was a liar. Big, big time. There was to lie about everything." – Host B [03:08]

Insights:

• The hosts delve into how their parents' dishonesty impacted their perceptions of trust and family dynamics.
• They discuss coping mechanisms and the challenges of reconciling their affection for their fathers with the lies they told.

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3. Comedy, Stand-Up Experiences, and Personal Challenges ([10:36] - [20:06])

Discussion Points:

• Stand-Up Comedy Struggles: Hosts share experiences of bombing during performances and the camaraderie found in shared failure.
• Substance Use: They touch on performing while under the influence and the ensuing challenges.

Notable Quotes:

• "I'm not a great liar. I'm not either. But I can certainly do a bit and really commit to it, which is a lie in a way." – Host B [10:36]

• "Once I get there, I'm... It's fucking gone." – Host A [13:20]

Insights:

• Emphasis on the vulnerability and authenticity in comedy.
• Exploration of how personal flaws and struggles can influence comedic material and performance style.

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4. Magic Shows and David Copperfield's Performance ([20:06] - [30:57])

Discussion Points:

• Experiences at the Magic Castle: Host A recounts their first visit and the parallels between magicians and comedians.
• David Copperfield's Vegas Show: Detailed critique and humorous analysis of specific tricks and narrative elements in Copperfield's performance.

Notable Quotes:

• "I've met enough magicians to know that they're, you know, like comedians, you know, just crazy narcissists." – Host A [20:15]

• "It's like, you're doing a bit. I'll stand to the side. I'm doing a bit. Talking to someone. It was good." – Host A [14:22]

• "He's like, including us. And it's also, this is the matinee show at 2pm so he is phoning it in, right? Reading a letter that he wrote from his dad to him saying..." – Host A [22:10]

Insights:

• The hosts draw comparisons between the art of magic and stand-up comedy, highlighting the performance aspects of both.
• They humorously dissect David Copperfield's storytelling techniques and the believability of his illusions.

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5. Personal Family Stories and Upbringing ([30:57] - [60:04])

Discussion Points:

• Parental Careers and Financial Instability: Host A discusses their father's multiple business ventures and the resulting financial instability.
• Stepfamily Dynamics: Exploration of Host A's mother's remarriage, the resultant household tensions, and the impact on Host A's adolescence.

Notable Quotes:

• "He had a Ferrari, we had a driver, all sorts of stuff." – Host A [49:18]

• "There was a moment where she asked me, I was probably 17 or 18. She was like, can you help me load up the wine into the car? And I said, no. I said, I don't want to do that." – Host A [59:58]

Insights:

• The narrative delves into themes of trust, loyalty, and the complexities of blended families.
• Hosts reflect on the long-term effects of parental actions on their personal development and worldview.

---

6. Reality TV and Cultural Observations ([60:04] - [77:19])

Discussion Points:

• Real Housewives Experience: Hosts discuss their perspectives on reality television, particularly the "Real Housewives" series, and its authenticity.
• Comparison with Other Reality Shows: Contrasting shows like "Survivor" and "Alone," highlighting different approaches to reality TV and viewer engagement.

Notable Quotes:

• "It's like a comedy Community, but it's so much smaller." – Host B [22:16]

• "I do it. Who'd you go with? You. Is that the one you have, partner?" – Host A [70:59]

• "She's very smart, good at puzzle stuff. But people would have to witness us argue." – Host B [71:49]

Insights:

• Hosts provide a critical look at the manufactured aspects of reality TV versus more authentic portrayals.
• They discuss the social dynamics and personal stakes involved in participating in competitive reality shows.

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7. Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks ([77:19] - [79:39])

Discussion Points:

• Future Projects and Promotions: Hosts mention upcoming specials and encourage listeners to follow them on various platforms.
• Closing Question: Host B shares a question from his daughter about why different places have different languages, leading to a light-hearted discussion.

Notable Quotes:

• "Why do different places have different languages?" – Host B [77:19]

• "It's because of the Japanese and Italians, all language comes from Japanese and Italians." – Host B [78:43]

Insights:

• The episode wraps up with personal promotions and a playful exchange, maintaining the episode's engaging and humorous tone.

---

Conclusion

This episode of Senses Working Overtime with David Cross offers a deep dive into personal histories, the intricacies of comedy and magic, and cultural observations, all wrapped in the hosts' signature humor and candid dialogue. Through sharing personal anecdotes and critical insights, the hosts provide listeners with an entertaining and thought-provoking experience.

Notable Quotes Recap:

• "I truly love a conversation that follows no specific linear train of thought but can start about the 2004 Red Sox and minutes later has become an in-depth look at the Iran/Contra hearings." – Host A [00:12]

• "He's like, I'm just a fan of comedy. Who's your favorite comedian?" – Host A [10:13]

• "Listen, we were doing Macbeth. It's our favorite. We're doing a modern retelling set at a CVS." – Host A [72:55]

Listeners are encouraged to follow the hosts on their social media platforms and stay tuned for future episodes filled with more engaging and authentic conversations.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

And have your choice of seats. Finish this? I pretty much finished it right on the right.

[A]

Okay, cool.

[B]

Working on a bit.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I am. Where you spell something but with letters, but you say the letter.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

They say, like, you use a word that starts with that letter but sounds like a different letter. So you'd say. Yes, it's the name. Is a CT spelled E? Well, it's spelled E as in I as in R, S as in C, E as in X, C as in Q, and E as in U.

[A]

Sure. That's cut legs for sure.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

I gotta figure out. I've got the letters that work and I just gotta figure it out. All right. That's what you're walking in on. What do you guys think? Will that be a good bit? I'm laughing.

[C]

It's already working.

[B]

Yeah, right. All right.

[A]

All down.

[B]

Silent. So real quick, we're gonna have to make this quick because in about seven minutes, I'm supposed to do a podcast with Gian Marco.

[A]

Ceres Seresi.

[B]

So. So neither one. So, Raisi, how do you know?

[A]

I. I honestly don't. My dad's lied before.

[B]

Okay, so he's lied before.

[A]

He's lied. No, no, no. I wish many times.

[B]

Ozzy a liar.

[A]

Yeah. Especially when it comes to heritage. Like, he told me it was my name was pronounced Gian Marco and it's John Marco. Any Italian would say, it's John Marco, but he said, no, it's Gian because he liked it more. He's a liar. Those. Those are the nicer lies. Honestly, I'm fine with those lies, you.

[B]

Know, so my dad was a liar. Big, big time.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah, big time.

[A]

Which. What kind of lies?

[B]

Oh, I mean, literally everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There was to lie about. Yeah. About. I mean, just everything.

[A]

Yeah, it's bad. It's bad. You hit an age where it all just crumbles quickly. I Think for my dad, the top lies there were cheating. Of course. I think, like every relationship looking back, the reason she went crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Was he cheated. But I didn't find out till way later. Lies about my heritage being Italian. Like, we are Italian, but un poco.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I go to Italy and I say, can I meet the family?

[B]

That means just a little bit.

[A]

Just a little bit. There's religious lies.

[B]

Like what?

[A]

Like when I was existential as a kid and my dad would say, I know there's something that survives this world. And then I remember before surgery, he asked me, he's like, what do you think happens when you die? And I was like, I thought you knew. I thought you knew.

[B]

That's a, That's. I don't count that. That's not an egregious lie. That's a little. That's a lie he's telling himself. That everybody tells himself. Not everybody, but if my kid came.

[A]

To me, I think I'd say something like, some people think this, some people think that, but I don't know if I'd look him in the eye and say, I know.

[B]

Well, I mean, I don't consider that a really terrible lie. I think lying about your heritage and lying about, you know, cheating on your mom, those are lies. He.

[A]

He dated my kindergarten teacher for a period of time and was honest about that. But he. There's a lot of narrative lies of, like, he said my mom got her fired. And my mom tells me later, she says they were passing notes back and forth via my lunchbox, like, no. Yeah. And I don't think it was like, you know, I want to stick off.

[B]

After class, but what if your mom found that note?

[A]

I think that's what happened. I think that's how she found out.

[B]

Boy, they're dumb. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. You know, the heart. You're blinded by love and lust.

[B]

And if oral sex will sure certainly put a haze over your eyes. Absolutely Rose colored glasses, as it were.

[A]

So, yeah, big liar.

[B]

Yeah. And are you in touch with them?

[A]

Yeah, we're in touch. I. I fear it's hard to tell. Like, you know, is he 72 now? Whether he's like his mind is going or he's always been a little bit strange. So it's very hard to parse the two out.

[B]

So when you define that, when he. How was he always a little bit.

[A]

Strange, like, especially with the Internet, I mean, God forbid, I would hate to know what he comments on. I'm sure he's just a crazy, weird, but like out of nowhere he texts me, my sister, an uncle, and then two numbers. I don't know, saying, what was the anniversary for 911 last year? Was it.

[B]

It was 9 11. Yeah, it was on September 11th. They changed. They're talking about changing, but some years it's on September. Sometimes it'll shift because of the leap year. So if it's a leap year, it. It. They will. And convenience because, you know, the. The parade. They're doing the.

[A]

Yeah, all the flows. Forget the leap year.

[B]

Yeah. So there's like the Peanuts characters, and there's always like, commercial brands that are like the. You know, the Pillsbury Doughboy and stuff.

[A]

Like that where they.

[B]

Or celebrate 911 with.

[A]

Plane flies into its belly and it goes. But. But bad.

[B]

I don't know that.

[A]

You know, they always corporatize these things.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So out of the blue, the flight flies.

[B]

All right. Just want to. It's that part that's funny. The. That's the fun part.

[A]

So.

[B]

But then he coughs up people who jump out of his mouth.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

And is it too soon? Guys, wait another decade.

[A]

Long time.

[B]

It has been a long, long time.

[A]

At some point they got a, you know, like. Like I think about the Titanic all the time. You. That after the Titanic, that year, one of the survivors was an actress and they made a movie starring her. Like, you know, about the Titanic.

[B]

Is that for real?

[A]

There's no. The footage is gone.

[B]

How convenient.

[A]

Yeah, but. But of course, of course, if there. There was just no actors working in the Twin towers, I think there would have been a movie. All right. I mean, there's some who claimed, but. So out of the blue, my dad texts me, my sister, some family members, three numbers. We don't know. It's the 20th anniversary. 22nd, whatever it is. I've set up a conference call line to hold a moment of silence. We've never done this. We've never done this before. So we wait for the 20th anniversary. Who knows?

[B]

That's an Italian thing. I mean, you should know that. It's your heritage.

[A]

Yeah. After 20 years, you finally go, let's.

[B]

Confront this at 20 years. You have a Zoom call goes way back.

[A]

One I did call at the time, more for the bit than for the remembrance. Incorrect number. So he set up the number wrong. And then second, one of the mysterious numbers in this chain just wrote back, I told you not to fucking text me again. Oh, so we don't know what that is.

[B]

Right? X of some kind or somebody's pestering with. I mean, my mom doesn't do it anymore. But there was a period of time where she, she would send me, you know, a Thomas Friedman thing from New York Times. I'm like, I hate this motherfucker. I know you like him. I. This guy's beyond useless to me. Don't stop texting me his scenarios. I was in a cab in, you know, Kuwait and whatever.

[A]

Was she trying to like, tell you something or like share?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, share. Well, share. But she's also. There are, you know, like pre Netanyahu, a lot of like pro Israel stuff and just things about Israel occasionally, you know, and I'm like, I don't like, I'm not pro Israel. Stop it.

[A]

You know, I don't know what I'd like more either that my mom sends me. Like, she'll go to, you know, some 10,000 seat theater and be like, you should do a show here. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, someday, Mom.

[B]

Classic. Yeah, I'm. I'm of the generation that would. And I learned pretty quickly not to. To lie via your dad about what I do. If you're on a plane or you're kind of trapped in a, in a situation where you can't. You're. There's a person to have a conversation with.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, should they want to have a conversation and you know, oh, what do you do? Oh, I'm a standup comedian and I almost more than 50% of time. Oh, you know, you should do the Tonight Show. Like, yeah, probably. I'll. When I land, I'll. I'll get on a payphone and.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Call.

[A]

I recently I got picked up from a comedy club as an Uber and I told the lie because they weren't taking me there. So I said, oh, I'm just a fan of comedy. Who's your favorite comedian? And then we start. Then I'm like John Marcos, Marco Ceres. But of course, for him it was Chappelle. And so then we just had to talk about Chappelle for the rest of the car ride. Yeah, it's hard to lie. I'm not a great liar.

[B]

I'm not either. But I can certainly do a bit and really commit to it, which is a lie in a way. Yeah, I did it with the. It turned out to be not very eventful. But my Lyft driver from the airport taking me to the Airbnb, I'm staying at here, which, you know, I hadn't seen, I hadn't stayed there before, and we were having this discussion. I can't remember how it came Up. But I was definitely baiting him. He was like a conspiracy theory. I was trying to. Kind of trying to peg him and saying things that wouldn't give up the bit, but would just hopefully keep things extending until he said something kind of inflammatory or interesting or. And. And there were plenty of things I could agree with, like, you know, yeah, the politicians don't really care about you, and things like that. Things that were easy, but I still couldn't tell what. What's. Oh. And at one point, I was like. I said, hey, man, you know, I vote a certain way, and I. I. That's how I vote. And da, da, da. Trying to see if he would, you know, I could get anything out from him, and I couldn't. And I couldn't tell which side he was on.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And then as we were pulling up to the place, and I didn't quite know what the address was, I was looking at my phone, and he's like, well, here, I guess. Is this where you're staying? Black Lives Matter. Is a big Black Lives Matter thing on the side.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, I don't know. I guess so. He's like, okay, so. So that, you know. But I.

[A]

Across the street at All Lives Matter right over there. Just Don't Tread on Me avenue.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. But I. So I'm good at that. I can. I can really lead and just play dumb or pretend to be this thing, but I'm not a good liar. Like, I just. I. It's sort of like I've done stand up high a couple times. Not in decades, but there were a handful of times I would get high and then I'd go up, and then I. Every single time, after what felt like 20 minutes, but was about a minute, minute and a half, I'd say, I gotta say, I got. I got really high, so. And then people would say, oh, we didn't. We didn't know. But it would be that thing where I can't lie. And I would just go, okay, look, I didn't. Yeah, yeah, you're just getting sweaty.

[A]

And sure, for me, if I'm high, I don't do it as a matter of habit, but when I am, if I start going, wait, are they laughing at the jokes? Are they laughing at me?

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then once I get there, I'm. It's fucking gone. I did one on shrooms recently. I did a. I got hired randomly for a fish. A fish festival.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

And they were. They were rough gigs. Of course, it's at the fish festival.

[B]

And wait, I'M sorry, is the Fish Festival you're going to see Fish or. It's just everything surrounding.

[A]

It's just like. It's a huge encampment convention and we're on one of the side tents. Yeah. But people are sleeping over for three days. These are Fish fans.

[B]

Okay, so Fish is playing. Fish is amongst other. Got it.

[A]

Yeah. And it was one of those gigs where I tried to say myself, you're not gonna kill this. Just learn something, try something new. And so I did shrooms before one, and that was. That was fun.

[B]

Oh, boy. Well, how much time did you have to do?

[A]

I feel like I did 30 each.

[B]

There was like five shows on shrooms. That's impressive.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then. And then Jordan Jensen was the other comedian, and we just. We kind of headlined together. We did an hour just back and forth. And that was fun. Yeah, you know, back.

[B]

You mean you went up at the same time.

[A]

Same time. And we, like, did a good job of a mix of, like, you know, you're doing a bit. I'll stand to the side. I'm doing bit. Talking to someone. It was good.

[B]

That's the thing that I think myself and a lot of comics have. When you get jealous of a band like, oh, you guys perform, but you guys get to be behind this wall of sound and you've got four other people up there with you.

[A]

Yeah. It's a good feeling to bomb with someone for once. Feels like, wow, I can talk to someone about it.

[B]

Yeah, it's very special.

[A]

I have a sketch team and we don't do that much anymore. But when we would have a sketch that would bomb, we did one where we all died at the end and it was bombing. But you can't stop. The sketch has to go on. Sure. And so we're just lying there on the site and we're making eye contact, just laughing so hard at how bad we're doing collectively. And there's a joy to that.

[B]

Sure. Is the audience with you or no?

[A]

No, not at all. And it was one of those where, like, you know, when the first beat doesn't work, you're like, well, the rest are extensions of this joke. So if you didn't like this one.

[B]

Yeah. It's not like, stand up, where you can make a very poor choice with your opening bit and then go, all right, now I gotta.

[A]

Yeah, now I gotta get him back in the room. We were dying. It was one of those really surre. In the room, we could not contain ourselves. And then in practice, like, the. The joke Was. It was a friend of Douglas Goodheart. My friend, he met someone who their sense of humor was. Hey, my name's Paul. Oh, hey, Paul. I'm joking. My name's Steve. And then like extended that to someone lying about a peanut allergy. And then it's dead. And just no one got it.

[B]

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[A]

I tried sometimes I do. I'm not that bitty of a person like in real life, but I did. I went to the Magic Castle for the first time.

[B]

Oh yeah, that place is cool.

[A]

And I came back from the bathroom and I went to the table. I was like, guys, do you, your bathroom have the thing where like there's this box And I waved my hand underneath, soap appeared and someone got it. Someone didn't get it. One person went, whoa, really? And then I had to break it down. But I was very proud of. It was very cool, the Magic Castle. But there's so many similarities with comedy that like, I know I've met enough magicians to know that they're, you know, like comedians, you know, just crazy narcissist. So I can't buy into the picture of them like, Frank, of course. Please, please, come on.

[B]

But that's their thing. They need to do that to get into, into the role.

[A]

They can't shit talk. Every, every magician that's done my podcast, I always ask him about David Copperfield because I saw a show of his in Vegas that was like an astounding, like, I want to talk about it with Freud, you know, and every time after they say, hey, can we cut that part about David Copperfield? He's very litigious. Yeah, it's like a comedy Community. But it's so much smaller.

[B]

Right, right. So what did he. Are you talking about his affectations or what was affectations?

[A]

But his Vegas show, he reads, it's about his father dying and he goes back in time to like, basically at some point he reads a letter that he wrote. Then the letter is from his dad on his deathbed to David, explaining basically, I know you weren't there for me in my final days, but that's because you were.

[B]

I'm sorry, does he present it as I wrote this or you just know he wrote it? You're guessing it's part of the piece.

[A]

And it's definitely fake. He doesn't present it as real, but within the narrative, he goes back in time to retrieve this letter.

[B]

Got it. Got it.

[A]

So you know it's fake.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

And maybe the average person wouldn't automatically go, he wrote this.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so he's like, including us. And it's also, this is the matinee show at 2pm so he is phoning it in, right? Reading a letter that he wrote from his dad to him saying, I know you weren't with me for my final years, but that's because you were pursuing your dreams and, and you were bringing happiness to other people. So for the best that you abandoned me and you're watching like, Jesus Christ, man. Please don't. Why? I paid money for this.

[B]

You should pay us. And what is the magic? What does he make his dad? He reanimates his dad. He comes back from the dead?

[A]

I wish. No, not at all.

[B]

But at the end of it, he reads his whole letter and then he goes, was this your card?

[A]

At the end of the letter, it's like. And the ace of spades. Yes, that would have been better. I feel like magicians. It's probably like some comedians who move into more one man show territory where it's like, yeah, the show has five tricks and a lot of story in between. The same way where it's like, okay, so you have 10 jokes and then long, long setups. This is how it goes. It's the same, very similar forms.

[B]

But I do want to know what the. The trick was that accompanied this. There's nothing with the letter seemingly out of context then.

[A]

No, Then he had his assistants, made a T. Rex skeleton appear. And I'm like, at least have it be your dad's skeleton.

[B]

But how does that. So it's completely out of context. He starts the show, he's going back in time. Oh, T. Rex. He went too far back in time. The Machine was fucked up and now he's got to fix the machine. Ah, got it.

[A]

And then his dad wrote a second letter saying how to fix the machine. Time travel's new and you invented. I'm proud of you for that.

[B]

Here's if you ever find yourself in back when the dinosaurs roamed the Earth. Here's how you fix the. Here's how you get back to 2025.

[A]

Yes. It's like that's so close to what.

[C]

The show actually is. Like, you're making fun of.

[B]

Have you seen it?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

You've seen it?

[B]

Anya seen it.

[A]

So I'm a little bit. Right. Like, I'm not misremembering.

[C]

It is the greatest live performance I've ever seen in my life.

[B]

Oh. So. All right. I love shit like this. I love it, I love it, I love it.

[C]

I mean, interrupt, but it's like you're describing a joke. But that is how. That is what he does. Because there's the alien.

[A]

Yes. So there's. I'm now scared to a big chunk. Is this animatronic alien where. Again, no magic.

[B]

No magic.

[A]

I mean, cool.

[C]

Impressive, but not magical.

[A]

Impressive. But it's just like they brought ET on stage and he talks to the alien and because he's phoning it in.

[C]

So bad, the aliens lines happen or. Sorry, David's lines happen and then he's saying them so fast that there's a long pause.

[B]

Oh. Cause it's pre recorded.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Because he's like, truly, like, I just need to kind of get in and get out.

[A]

He's going to dinner.

[B]

He can't. You can't speed up the show that way.

[C]

I know. And he gets really flustered if, for example, you laugh really loud at a non joke part. He kind of. Which is what happened on my. Of course. Because I was dying. I was dying.

[A]

When he is at a letter from my dad and you like burst into laughing.

[C]

There's so many. First of all, when the. Do you remember when the dad's voice.

[A]

Comes in and it's like I forget the dad's voice.

[C]

It's crazy. I mean, I don't mean to ruin it, but it's. David, you should go see it.

[A]

I.

[B]

Well, I. You know, I'm not in Vegas very often, but if I am, I will def. What's the name of the show?

[C]

David Copperfield.

[B]

I know. I guess it doesn't matter.

[C]

Best $90 you'll spend in that town.

[B]

$90.

[A]

Listen, I saw that. I was there. I saw the jabberwockies. For $180.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

I mean, this is worth it. This is the bad.

[C]

I think the magic tricks happen when the lights are completely off. That's the crazy part. I'm like, that's actually not magic.

[B]

What do you mean? What do you mean?

[C]

He'll be like. He'll present, like, a little bit. The lights go down, the lights come back up, and there's like a.

[A]

Like a T. Rex.

[C]

T. Rex there.

[B]

And you're like, that's the opposite of magic.

[A]

You probably did it when the lights were off.

[C]

Yeah. It's impressive how fast you did that with the lights off. But that's not magic, ultimately.

[B]

I know.

[C]

I'm sorry.

[A]

I'm derailing.

[B]

And where's. Where are Penn and Teller in this? They're usually. They're in the radio, but they're usually on top of Colin. Bullshit on.

[C]

Well, I don't think you can. With David.

[A]

I don't think they do with David Copperfield. He's got an island. He's. I mean, he's filthy.

[C]

He's got an island.

[B]

He's got an island.

[A]

He's. Yeah, there's a lot with him, but he has power.

[C]

And, in fact, we should probably cut all of this.

[B]

Yeah, we should go. Not least of what you know. No, we just described the show.

[A]

We're allowed to describe jokes, but you're.

[B]

Also allowed to have opinions.

[A]

Did someone. He brought up someone. It was like someone in the audience whose sister died. And so the guy being. No, it's okay. It's not the part you laughed at. And then brought the guy on stage to, like, you know, assist with the trick.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And I felt like the way that he sped through it, I said, I think this is an audience plant.

[C]

Oh, they all were.

[A]

Did he bring an audience member on stage?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yes. And there's this.

[C]

He does that thing where he takes a photo with you. Do you remember this sort of photo with the audience? And, like, so. So that you believe that it's happening in real time because he shows it again later when, like, magic happened. But the photo of him is from 10, 15 years ago. Like, there's no chance. He's so much younger. I mean, maybe 20.

[A]

And if we're being cruel physically, his back is. He must have had some kind of surgery. So he's walking around like this, saying, I'm proud of you, son. And then a T. Rex comes out.

[C]

I was like, that can't be him, because I saw photos of him in the lobby, and that's not what.

[A]

Oh, yeah, Those photos, they all need to be updated.

[B]

So the dad. The dad says, I'm proud of you, son. Then there's a T. Rex.

[A]

Yeah, they don't particularly connect.

[B]

I'm proud of you son too. The T. Rex and then the alien. I am proud of you as well, David from the planet quandar in sector 5. We all are saying, David, when you go, you'll be like, that was it.

[C]

That's what I imagined. And it's happening. That's so close to how it.

[B]

Actually, I want to make a special trip to Las Vegas just to see it.

[A]

It's really. You gotta see it. I wanna see it again so I can take more notes this time.

[B]

Damn it. This sounds great. I truly love stuff like that. Oh, really?

[A]

It's great.

[C]

Yeah. I had a friend. Sorry. Last night I had a friend who took us. And afterwards he was like, I'm so sorry. I didn't know that that's.

[B]

I What.

[C]

What that was going to be like. And I was like, never apologies. Like, that was truly the best hour and a half I spent in.

[A]

Yes, it's delicate. Good bad and bad bad. Vegas has a lot of bad.

[B]

Very delicate. Were you guys. I don't know if he's still around, but my back going to my era, but Cookie Jar and the Crumbs, you guys know. No, no.

[A]

It sounds like you could be making it up.

[B]

No, I'm not.

[A]

That's a magician.

[B]

It's Cook. No, he's not a magician. He's a mainstay. You know, smaller room performer. Cook E Jar and the Crumbs. And he might not even be still alive. I don't know. But he used. He used to do like. And look him up. For real. Did you look him up? Is that what you're laughing at?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I've probably seen him like six times. It's always great. And he would do. He's a great performer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like really fucking brings it. And. And. And you know, you're in. He plays all around. But. And he'll be nominated when, you know, performer of the Year and stuff in their arts Weekly or whatever. But he really does. He never phones it in, but he does the same thing. And it was for decades. It was like a disco type thing. And the Crumbs were these two black woman, you know, singers behind him. And he would sing, you know, Gap Band and Daz Band, like all that era of, you know, disco type songs. He dropped a bomb on me, you know, whatever. And you know, no. No parking on the dance floor. That thing and he puts on this really show. But he's super corny and he wears, like, a codpiece and like. And he was clearly older. I mean, I. He was older when I first saw him. And then he changed his thing into like a. More of a crooner kind of, I don't know, Al Capone, ish, Kind of. Yeah, crooner guy, whatever. So I don't know if he ever went back to. But he was a mainstay and it was. It was the. The absolute line that you just described of there's good bad and bad bad. And he's like, right on that line.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But he's trying, at least. He's not. He's really trying.

[A]

And David Coppertville, he put work into it at some point. You're seeing at some point or some other people did.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. On his island.

[C]

Oh, his team is incredible.

[A]

His team's incredible.

[C]

The best in the business, I think.

[A]

But I saw the Jabberwockies. I was in Vegas like, two months.

[B]

Ago for work, and I don't know what that is.

[A]

They're like, I believe in America's Got Talent, like dance group, but they wear masks, which is brilliant because they basically.

[B]

Got to band and substitute in and out.

[A]

Yeah. And I watched this one in Vegas, and I said with one day's rehearsal, I could be in the show. And I said, that's a bad sign.

[B]

That's very cocky for the dance show Gianmarco. That's very cocky of you.

[A]

At some point, they bring it to the audience and has three audience members do karaoke for full songs. Three full songs. And I said, oh, my God. I bought tickets to karaoke night of Not Even My Friends. And I paid extra to be closer to it. And, man, Vegas really rubs me the wrong way. I've had bad experiences so far.

[B]

Oh, same here. I mean, I haven't been in forever, but I have a real love hate relationship with it.

[A]

It feels like if Times Square was in an airport, it's like every. Everything is.

[B]

I think Times Square was in an airport.

[A]

It's just like. It's all like the shine and gleam, but everything's hyper over expensive. And it's the worst quality. And it's like, listen, if you're gonna charge me 40 bucks for an omelette, at least I'll make it the worst omelette I've ever had in my entire life. On top of everything else.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just like, I don't mind. Take my money up front and let me Enjoy my experience. But to be scammed every second of the way. Oh, the coffee's $12. That makes me mad. And then this. This, everything. And then. And then when they make it so it's hard to leave the casino. And, you know, they designed it that way so you can't escape. There's something. There's something like, primal where I'm like, get me out of here. You're trying to trap me. You're bad. And I hate it.

[B]

I. Yes, that's part of it. I. It's also the. There's this. It's presented as a very fun place and a exciting place. It's. I don't know if there's any city in America that has more tragedy per minute than Las Vegas. Families destroyed. I'm not even trying to be funny here. I'm like, it's. It's. And so there's an. And everything's ersatz. It's all. It's fake Paris, fake New York, fake this, fake that. And. And although, I gotta say, New York, New York is spot on. I've lived in New York for, really, 25 years now. And it's like they just nailed it. Yeah, they nailed the experience. Same with Paris. And. Because there's a guy with a baguette who rides around on a bike and the baguettes in the back of the little thing. And he has a beret, of course. And so that part. Yes, I get it. That they nailed that. I'm gonna digress for one second. Tell you one of the dumbest things I've done so many dumb things.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And had so many dumb thoughts. One of the dumbest, I'm going to say top five. Just should know better. Is I was doing a show in Vegas and I was fucking hammered. Like, it was at, I think, the Hard Rock or Planet. One of those places, House of Blues, House of Blues and their backstage amenities. I mean, they take care of you. And there's just free liquor everywhere. Me and the band that was opening, we all got fucking wasted. And then I was somehow. I was out on the Strip, hammered. And I saw the New York, New York casino. And also in Vegas, the depth perception is way off. You can go, oh, there's that casino down there. I'll walk there. But it's two and a half miles, right? And so I go. I'm gonna go for real. I'm gonna go there and I'm gonna get a slice, I swear to God. And I walk first. I hop this fucking fence because I'm out in The. Wherever we were, we're out in the parking lot and the fence is like 12ft high, chain link, you know, And I'm like, I'll climb it. And I'm just. And I, you know, fall halfway down on the other side and I'm hammered. And. And I walked to fucking. The casino to get a slice. Surely it's New York theme. Surely they'll have a late night slice and they didn't. That's truly one of the. And I'm way the fuck away from my hotel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's one of the dumbest things I've ever done. And also, I had that kind of. It sort of dawned on me and I ignored it at first. Like, they're not gonna be like.

[A]

As you got closer, you saw the Statue of Liberty was actually your height.

[B]

You're like, this is when I was in experience. Because I'd been inside before, but when I was inside and I'm looking around and it's starting to dawn on me, like, you fucking idiot. They're not gonna. I'm just pushing that thought out, you know, they'll have one. I'm arguing with myself.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

There's. There's gonna be like. It'll be a theme, like a late night slice and. No, no late night slice.

[A]

That's what everything. They had a Titanic exhibit there. And I was like, I know it's gonna be. I just assume everything there is going to be the worst version of that thing. And some. I want to.

[B]

It was a canoe.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Ice Cube.

[B]

It's a. Yeah, it's a Titanic. This is the original Titanic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, don't get too close. You don't need to be looking at that.

[A]

So the iceberg. They had a Pillsbury Doughboy in there. And I was like, God damn it, not another one.

[B]

Yeah. All over the place. Every disaster. You know that. I'm not a big conspiracy guy, but you know that there's video and film, you know, photos conclusive of the Pillsbury Doughboy at 9 11. Titanic sinking, Oklahoma City bombing. The fucking cowboy thing in Las Vegas where the guy shot like 58 people. Right. With a bump, stock, triangle, Shirtwaist. Yep. East Village. Yep. Bhopal.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Chernobyl.

[A]

That's why the Doughboy looks the way that he does.

[B]

He was too close. I'd say that Chernobyl was kind of in the middle of some of those. So. Munich 72, the Kennedy assassination, Lee Harvey Oswald shooting. Both. Both.

[A]

That explained the bullet. They tried to explain how it bounced off his body. And that's how we got the magic bullet.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm not. Again. I'm not. Well, ask Copperfield about the magic bullet. Or don't wait for lights to go out, I guess. But, yeah, the Pillsbury Doughboy has been in. He was an original founding member of Scientology, and they won't tell you that. Yeah, L. Ron Hubbard and the Pillsbury Doughboy, they got rid of. They just. All that stuff is, you know, some people swept under the rug.

[A]

Some people say that David Miskovich's wife is actually in the Doughboy.

[B]

That's where they, you know, they haven't found her.

[A]

Yeah, look inside.

[B]

Yeah, look inside the Doughboy. That's why when you get the Crescent rolls, the. The Pillsbury Crescent, it says. And it whispers it to you. As you open it, you know, you're supposed to hear that sound, that. But it says, look inside the Doughboy. Look inside the Diplomat.

[A]

That's why he makes the hoo Hoo. Because if he didn't make that sound.

[B]

You could hear her going, oh, he's covering for her. Help me. Get me out of here. Yeah. Interesting. I've learned a lot.

[A]

Who's more litigious, David Copperfield or the Church of Scientology? I guess we'll find out.

[B]

Let's get them to sue each other. Hey, that's a good idea. If I was a law firm or a lawyer looking for work, I would set that in motion.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you just present you to just be the right place at the right time. Oh, I couldn't help but hear your spat. Maybe I can. And then. Yeah, you'll be rolling in it.

[A]

David is the kind of guy where you're like, oh, you would make a religion. I can't. I couldn't do that. I couldn't be a cult leader. I'm too insecure.

[B]

Why not?

[A]

I'm too. I need too many affirmation. I feel like as a cult leader, you gotta.

[B]

But that's what all those guys need and want.

[A]

But maybe they have a partner, like at least L. Ron Hubbard. At least in that movie. I guess it's not really about him. What was that? The Master?

[B]

Yeah. Don't go by that. That was a sure.

[A]

No, but I was saying, like, he must have. I think those guys have such confidence. They can go out there and go like they're salesmen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't think I have. I'm too. I'm like, do you think we should do this right? Do you think we should drink the Kool Aid? I was. I was really into the Kool Aid idea last night.

[B]

Surely there was somebody in. In Jonestown who went, are you guys. Are you. Are we sure about. There's somebody.

[A]

Did you know that it wasn't. I believe it wasn't Kool Aid. And like Kool Aid had to deal with it, like being. They were like, it's not Kool Aid. It's like a non generic Tycee. Yeah. And Kool Aid had to deal with it. They're known as the. That.

[B]

The drink of suicidal cultists.

[A]

Yeah. I think that would be a good commercial campaign. Them just setting the record straight with a song.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I just wanted. It was like a candy bar called Casey Anthony's Baby. And it's like. Oh, right before the day.

[B]

Yeah. Well, when I was a kid and I'm much older than you, but we used to have Casey Anthony's babies all the time, which are like the little malt ball type, you know, the box and you shake them and Casey Anthony's Baby, you know, and then there was a real woman named Casey Anthony who killed her kid. And then that candy company went out of business, you know, about 10 years later.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Just because some bad paperwork and accounting. But yeah, nothing to do with it.

[A]

I wish I could try one.

[B]

Did you ever have.

[A]

I had a case, Anthony's Baby. I remember my mom had one, but she left it in the car in.

[B]

The back when it was hot. Yeah. So it kind of melted. Yeah. Did you ever have a candy called God damn, this is shitty? It was a really delicious candy, but it was called a very unfortunate name. God damn, this is shitty. And I think it was. I want to say Finnish or Danish or something like that.

[A]

Sure, sure.

[B]

So it was spelled a little differently.

[A]

But I've had candies discontinued in my life. The zebra candy, that's the flavored fruit strip. Like gum.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, those.

[A]

Those are gone.

[B]

Yeah, I remember that.

[A]

Fruit strips.

[B]

Fruit strips.

[A]

Yeah, fruit strips and fun.

[B]

What was the brand? It was like all Wrigley, but the little skinny guys. So you'd have peppermint. Spearmint fruit to fruit Juicy Fruit.

[A]

Juicy Fruit.

[B]

Juicy Fruit.

[A]

Ah, yes.

[B]

From One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. Yes, the movie.

[A]

Gum. When I was a kid, gum was like. It was the sugar. It was. It's like bubble Yum. I mean, there's still bubble.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

But it was like Double Free World.

[B]

Where it's all kind of helicopter parents. Right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

No, and we used to have the thing. I can't remember what it's called, but it was about. About this big. For those of you listening, it was about this big. And it was like a kind of a square, slightly rectangular chunk. And it came in grape and apple flavored, and you would just, like, you know, tear off a big trawl of it. Yeah, I can't remember the name of that. Oh, it was fun. Candy was fun when I was a kid.

[A]

Yeah, it's all, like, bad for your, like, jawbreakers. It was a lot of, like, fuck up your jaw, Dar.

[B]

Oh, and Pixie Sticks.

[A]

Pixie Stick.

[B]

Pure sugar, I feel. And you know what? I think at cost to them, they went, let's take this pure sugar. I know it'll cost us a little bit more per Pixie Stick and Jumbo Pixy Stick. And it will hurt our bottom line. But let's add some chemicals to this. Let's add some bad chemicals.

[A]

Yeah, let's add. Was it red dye?

[B]

Oh, all of it. Yeah. Put it all in there.

[A]

It was good.

[B]

Yeah, it was very good. And a value.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay, so we talk about Copperfield, Candy, Vegas.

[A]

Okay. Something that reminded me of you had.

[B]

Asked me to bring these things up.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I.

[B]

The price of eggs.

[A]

The price of eggs. Of course. So I taped this special just that I produced. We were doing pickup lines after the second show, and my girlfriend, who was one of the producers, she had a piece of paper with all the lines that I had written down. Just one line to set up a joke to get a clean take. And we're running out of time. If I go over a certain time, they charge me more for the venue. And we go one. Go through this, go through that. And then she kind of goes quiet. And I'm on stage, the audience is there, and I'm like, what is a baby? And she says, I don't know. I'm like, what does it say? And she says, the rapey. The rapey. And I'm like, what the fuck? And I run off and I'm like, can I. Can I see the paper? She's like, it says the rapey. And I look at it. It's my handwriting. And I'm like, that says therapy. It's therapy. And in that moment, I remembered anal. Anal rapist.

[B]

An hour. Yeah.

[A]

And it was just. It truly, she. The look on her face, she was. Because she knows my jokes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And she knows all four rapey jokes that I have. None of them are called the rapey.

[B]

But for. As a. As a shortcut to yourself, you write the rapey.

[A]

The rapey.

[B]

You don't Write the rapey joke set up. You just write the rapey.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. I was like the rapey number one or two or three.

[B]

So wait, if. If it's therapy, then it would just be the A rape, because there's no E. That. There'd be no Y or no therapy. Rape. E, R, A, P, E, Y. Yes, I see.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The.

[A]

I can write it out.

[B]

That's right. I didn't believe you. I'm. I don't forget that. I don't know why. So it'd be the. Yeah, the. The. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. I had. I had. And I. People said there was a little bit too much space between the E and the R. And I said, okay. I was in a rush, had other things in my mind.

[B]

But why would she be so horrified at. Wouldn't she go like, what the fuck is this?

[A]

Because it was just like. Because she was shouting them like. I was like, what's next? And she'd be like, the bit about, you know, your dad and I.

[B]

That'd be a good prank to pull on her.

[A]

Yeah, that would be. Yeah. During. During the spot taping. Yeah.

[B]

Where'd you shoot the special? Elysian here. Okay.

[A]

We dressed it all up. Tried to make it feel. I wanted it to feel like an Off Broadway theater between shows.

[B]

That's very specific.

[A]

Yeah, just like a little bit of backstage and a little bit of just like kind of random props.

[B]

Well, plug it. Tell people.

[A]

Yeah, we're probably gonna put it on YouTube, but it's everywhere. It's gonna be on my YouTube. John Marcos Harese. It's just my name. I'm on socials all over the place. So it'll come out in probably may, hopefully.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, it's good.

[B]

Good for you.

[A]

I feel good.

[B]

And so it's just. It doesn't have a title. They should just look for.

[A]

We're thinking it's going to be called the Outside's okay, I think, but we haven't fully edited.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Who knows?

[B]

But they can go to my YouTube.

[A]

And I'll be plugging in all my social medias at charmacosarezi.

[B]

All right. There you go. Yeah, we're not done. I just wanted to make sure everybody got that.

[A]

Appreciate it.

[B]

I will be. God. Who knows when this will come out? Probably we're doing Fullplex now. Yeah. 2026, I'm going to guess.

[A]

But.

[B]

I'll be in Vegas at the. Where's Copperfield play?

[A]

The mgm.

[B]

I'll be at the MGM checking out the Copperfield show. And I think it's called simply David.

[A]

I want to do. You know how, like, with a TV show, they'll do. What are they talking Dead. After the Walking Dead, they show it. I want to create a Vegas staple, and it's right after you come out of the Copperfield and go, hey, you guys want to talk about that? Come over here. Half price. We'll talk about whatever the fuck that was. And everyone will go. Everyone will go. That would be great. And then he'll sue me.

[B]

But why? Well, how can he sue you? What would he sue you for? What would be the premise of the.

[A]

I don't trust the legal system at this point. I just assume if you have enough money, you can sue someone.

[B]

Well, you can bankrupt them. Just. I mean, that was a. That's a Trump special, of course. You know, just sue and sue until. And Scientology as well.

[A]

Sure. And my father and your dad.

[B]

Your dad did that. Your dad was litigious.

[A]

I don't know. He was always. There was always court stuff, and I. He never shared enough for me to fully grasp it, but I feel like if I saw him in a suit, that was because there was court.

[B]

Right. What did he do for a living?

[A]

All sorts. So he. In the 90s, he had a company that basically was oil spills. If there was an oil spill, he would be contracted to clean up the oil spill.

[B]

Oh, he wouldn't spill oil. That wasn't his job. No, no, he'd clean up oil spills.

[A]

Just clean it up. If there's something behind the scenes, who knows? He wouldn't have told me. And he made a lot of money. He cleaned up, so to speak. And then he. We had like a. We had like. He had a Ferrari, we had a driver, all sorts of stuff.

[B]

Where'd you grow up?

[A]

Potomac, Maryland.

[B]

Wait, you had a driver for a Ferrari?

[A]

No, no, we had. Just a drive. He had a driver.

[B]

I see.

[A]

Car phone. At a time where that was. That felt rare. And then he had, like a. He had a Ferrari. And then he retired again. I don't know what's lies, what's real, but retired in his 40s, in the 90s, put all the money in the stock market, and then the dot com bubble burst. I think that really fucked him over. And so then he kind of restarted his company. He's the kind of guy that has 30 different companies. The main one is scrap metal recycling, where if a building's being demolished, he wins a bid to clean up the metal and sell it to different countries, essentially. Now it's a mix between that and Construction. But he wanted to have, like, a weed company. And then he has flights of fancy where he wants. Italian purse company. And someone scams him into, you know, buying, like, merch purses, and he puts a serezzi on it, and he's like, you see this? This is fine Italian leather. It takes him 30 minutes to close the latch because it's so cheap.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So he's that kind of guy. Makes money some places. Spends it all. Lives. We go to New York. We'd stay at the Plaza in the Waldorf, but then we'd go home and the water wouldn't be working, and it was just like.

[B]

Yeah. You know, Too many of those folks. Yeah.

[A]

But he loved the New York, and that's why I knew New York, because we would just come up twice a year, and he'd have a person who would get us the Broadway tickets, and we'd see the Nutcracker, and. And. Yeah. Not a great. Not a great splitting of finances.

[B]

Yeah. But the idea of, like, presenting themselves, even if they go into debt, they're presenting themselves as wealthy or I'm supposed to be here. And, you know, my mom said he.

[A]

Would, like, donate money to the Met, and they'd go see Pavarotti and he'd fall asleep, and it's that kind of thing. We want to be like, there's a lot of trauma.

[B]

I can't blame him for that.

[A]

There's a lot of, like, there's a lot of the Trump strain, but he's not a Trump guy, thankfully. But we watched the Apprentice together. Great first season. He had the board game. He had the Apprentice board game. He had the Apprentice book. And then thankfully, you know, didn't follow along in the political side. He doesn't care.

[B]

Right.

[A]

About politics, which I'm thankful. Yeah, please.

[B]

And where. And where's your mom in all this?

[A]

So my mom, she. She married my dad's former lawyer.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

Yeah. And I think there was a gap. Like, I don't think he was working for my dad at the time, but she met him because he was working for my dad at some point. And then years later.

[B]

That must be an interesting Thanksgiving.

[A]

There were some attempts at, like, oh, let's all do Thanksgiving together. That were disastrous.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Because my stepfather was, like. My dad was loose. He was fucking kindergarten teachers here and there.

[B]

Teachers, plural. He had to thank for kindergarten teachers. Yeah. So there he's, like, really hitting off with this lady, and they're at a hotel bar, and they. Things might be going, and he's like, what do you do? He's like, I'm a second grade teacher. He's like. And he just throws his money down and leaves?

[A]

Yeah, pretty much.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He. He's. I mean, people would. My dad was. Is like a very good looking guy in a way that.

[B]

All right, all right. Jesus.

[A]

People say to me, they meet, they. They'll say to me, they say, your dad's really good looking. And I'm like. As if I owe them, like an explanation. Like, I'm.

[B]

Listen, were you supposed to say thank you?

[A]

I guess so. But they say it in a way like, that's. That's crazy.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Because you're not.

[A]

Or they're saying like, you're. You're fine.

[B]

Yeah, you. But like, whoa, look at that. Yeah.

[A]

So. And I think that's why he had a lot of, like, flaws as a person. I think he lived in that good looking bubble. I just. The way I would watch him hit on women where he would say to the waiter, like, give her my card. And then she would come over and like, it just didn't make sense. That's never how my life worked. And I think he was just that level.

[B]

Well, you got to get a card. Do you have a card?

[A]

I used to have. Have a card. Actor slash stand up comedian slash storyteller.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, God. Oh, God. It's a long time ago. That's why they didn't come over. John Carlos. John Mark.

[A]

I said I have a story. I'll tell you some good stories.

[B]

Yeah, but they're not gonna come over. They're gonna get the card. Tell her to give her my card. And then you see her like, ah, okay. And then she reads it and she's like. And then just sort of. You can see her trying to be subtle with it, but it's not that subtle. And she just drops it on the floor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then grinds her heel into it and so that nobody else has to see. It's the storyteller part.

[A]

Mm. That was, that was. It was always that third hyphen where you really saw someone's true color.

[B]

Were you expecting them to come over and go, tell me a story? Would you? Would you tell me a story?

[A]

Actor and storyteller. My God, where do you find the time? Don't worry, I have plenty. So she married this guy and it really was like a opposite of my father. Like, it was kind of a like, well, that didn't work right. Let's go full opposite. And he was very strict. He was from Ohio.

[B]

He was raised the strictest State. Yes, they're known as the strict state.

[A]

The strict one, yeah. And it was very jarring because my dad was, like, way too loose, way too carefree. I could watch anything at my.

[B]

How old are you at this point?

[A]

So my mom remarried when I was four.

[B]

Oh. Oh, okay. So you mostly know.

[A]

I mostly know. I barely remember my mom in her single or dating days. So I would go to my dad's and it'd be like, you know, watch whatever. Watching south park, staying up, eating cup of noodles for every meal. And then I go to my mom's where my stepdad, he wouldn't let anyone in the house. Watch the Simpsons. Like, it was very different.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Because some. Because, you know, some article came out, I'm sure of some Fox News thing was like the Simpsons as bad. And that was the law of the land. So they didn't have a great marriage, but they stuck through and then got divorced when I was in college. And it was messy because in Maryland you have to live. I think the law's been overturned, but you have to live under separate roofs for an entire year before you can file for divorce.

[B]

What? That's weird.

[A]

And what is weirder, you're not allowed or you're not allowed to have had sex within that year as well.

[B]

With the partner. Not just sex.

[A]

You can fuck anyone else.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But with that partner. And I assume it's because the government wants you to stay married. Marriage, I guess, is part of the grand scheme. So they want to discourage divorce. And I think what they're saying is, hey, if one of you doesn't want a divorce, here's an easy way out. Tell the judge you fucked last night. So I think those have been overturned. But he was very complicated because my stepdad was the breadwinner. He wasn't going to give my. He didn't want the divorce.

[B]

What did he do for a job?

[A]

He. He was. He's like a lawyer.

[B]

Oh, yes, you said that already. Sorry.

[A]

And then my mom. My mom was a lawyer. My dad asked her to quit to raise me. And then, you know, she was a lawyer here. Back it up. But she didn't pursue it full time.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then at a certain age, she said, I'm not fucking doing. So she's. She does. She's a Pilates teacher, but she was. Didn't have enough money in Potomac, certainly, to go get a separate place. So then it became this big battle of, like, she was staying in the basement, and she started dating another person, I'm pretty sure. And we, you know, he's upstairs, she's downstairs. Breakfast. You're like, holy, get me out of here. This is weird. And all she. Because she wanted him to go, fine, fine. Get the out of my house. Here's money, go. And he wasn't. And then one day my mom picked me up from a voice lesson, and she's like, we need to go home right now. Your stepfather took all the money out of the checking account. So basically they have a joint account, right?

[B]

And, oh, wait, this is a divorce.

[A]

It's my mom and stepdad.

[B]

It's their divorce, not their divorce. Okay, okay. So.

[A]

So they have a joint account. And I think it's kind of this game of, of chicken of who's going to be the first to essentially declare war and pull it all out. And again, I, I don't trust when I have. I've had so many Rashomon experiences extended over different eras, I don't fully trust anything. But she picked me up and basically said, the money's been taken out. He had a wine cellar, so he collected red wine. That was his hobby. And she decided to take two carloads of red wine out of the temperature controlled wine cellar and kind of bring it to a friend's to use it as a bargaining chip to say, hey, give me the fucking money to move to the thing. And there's this moment where she asked me, I was probably 17 or 18. She was like, can you help me load up the wine into the car? And I said, no. I said, I don't want to do that. And why? Because he was my stepfather for 14 years. I didn't know if I was suddenly being. I didn't know if this was theft. I didn't know if I didn't know what it felt like a act of violence. Violence against someone I was scared of as it is, and who was a member of my family. And I didn't know the full. And I don't trust the full details. And I was basically being asked to just conduct an extreme thing against a family member. And there was a degree of like, hey, you didn't like this guy. You brought me into this life and now you want me to just like, say, fuck, like, blow off, have family because you were unhappy with the marriage.

[B]

But this starts with him taking all the money out of the joint account.

[A]

Sure. I don't.

[B]

It's not like, on her own, she said, hey, let's go in and take all his wine. There was a reason for it, sure.

[A]

But like.

[B]

And she wasn't destroying the wine. She was Just moving it and not was going to give him access to it until she got the money she should rightfully have access to.

[A]

I was just scared of this. I mean, I was just. I didn't know if it was. I thought it was like. It felt for a second. Is this an illegal thing? Listen, if my mom had said to me, like, you need to use what little power you have to, you know, at the breakfast table, we're all there. Be like, hey, we need to talk. Yeah, like become the adult, right? And be like, you guys have to work this out and say to him, like, you're abusing your power. But it was always hard in those proceedings to be like, who's abusing? Who's asking for more? I don't. Because you don't know the details. And if they want to bring me to the courtroom, you know, when I'm in college, sure, that's one thing. But you always feel like you don't have all the details. I think it just made me so skeptical of kind of any. I just go, like, until you have the full story, you don't fucking know anything.

[B]

So what happened?

[A]

Ultimately, he capitulated and gave her enough money to have a new plate. Like, here's a. Like one could go. Was she asking for more money than reasonable or was he being a pregnant.

[B]

Did she take the wine?

[A]

She got the money. She took the wine. She took two carloads. She's very strong, Pilates teacher, a lot of core work. They never talk about in the Pilates, how to lift up wine. Your soon to be ex husband's wine cases so you can get the apartment you've always dreamed of. But she was two carloads. And eventually I don't think it took that long because he was worried about it not being temperature controlled or whatever and gave her whatever money that she got a place in D.C. and the proceedings a year later filed for divorce and now she lives here in la.

[B]

What brought her to la?

[A]

I have a sister. I have two sisters here. One works at Celine in sales. Like high end.

[B]

What is Celine?

[A]

Celine's like a high end fashion label.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That she makes commission. The purses are $40,000 or she has to fly with the dress to Paris to make sure it gets okay. And then my other sister here, and this is both on my mom's side is a dancer. I was just on tour with Carol G. And I think my mom just wanted to be new change of pace.

[B]

Sure. And not in Potomac.

[A]

And I was dating and yeah, you know, Potomac sucks.

[B]

That's where Ryan was from. Right. The. The last podcast, he was from Potomac. Right. Or it was in Potomac was mentioned.

[A]

It was mentioned.

[B]

I can't confirm if that's where it.

[A]

Just is no culture, it's no diversity. It's just people with money who don't know how to enjoy it and who have all convinced themselves that if they all have their own pool, that's somehow better than if there was a community pool where you could meet people and just. My girlfriend didn't come from a lot of money and I came from a really upper middle class household. And I think the lessons that I learned from that were like how money can just isolate you and make you miserable and confused because you keep trying to use the money to get the good thing. And that's not where it's coming from. I learned some of those lessons.

[B]

Well, that sounds like your biological dad had some of that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That thing about. I mean, there's, as I see it, when you grew up poor and then you make a bunch of money, there's one of two ways that people go. They either are overspend on and flashy, garish, you know, whatever things that are status symbols, or you go the other way and you're like, you know, I have $3 million. That's not a. That's not a lot of money. I, you know, I'm going to get this, Go to Costco and get bulk toothpaste. Because, you know, there's like one of those directions that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One goes.

[A]

So, yeah, Potomac just miserable people. A lot of divorces, just awful. And then a lot of politicians, a lot of lawyers for those politicians.

[B]

Right. I'm only familiar with Real Housewives of the Potomac. That's the only way I know Potomac.

[A]

Well, apparently most of those women were from Baltimore.

[B]

What?

[A]

Because in Potomac all the politicians said, you're not going on the Real Housewives show. Maybe now. I mean, that was a different time. These days they probably meet their wives from the Real House.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know how it works.

[A]

That's the next.

[B]

I know I'm addicted and I love it.

[A]

You do love it.

[B]

No, I'm kidding.

[A]

Oh, sure. I never. I was in Rally TV when I was, like, in middle school and I went through my phase and I hate it.

[B]

Now, my wife has observed, correctly, that she'll, you know, and I'll kind of give her shit, just, you know, jokingly give her shit for watching, you know, those kind of shows, whatever. And she doesn't watch them religiously, but especially when some of her lady Friends or, you know, relatives, all women, you know are over. And then they'll watch. It's our guilty pleasure or whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they'll watch. And I'll go, what the fuck? You know, walk into the. The room, and TVs playing like, well, this is bullshit. Da, da, da. And I will stand there, like, to the side or behind the couch, just first eight minutes. You know, that could be like a.

[A]

Mystery Science theater where it's you watching the.

[B]

But I'm watching it the way they're watching it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So she's like, you're watching it. This is how we're watching it. And you're doing the same thing. And you're going. You're being all judgmental, going, what the fuck is this bullshit? But you're still. You're standing here watching it, and it's been a good eight minutes now, and you haven't left, so shut the fuck up, Cross.

[A]

I did a Real Housewives of New York. One of the exes was getting into comedy.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

And so we put on. It was like. It was a show. I was told, do you want to perform? It's a taping of the Real Housewives. And I was like. I was young. I was like, okay, sure. And it basically was like a real venue in New York where we were performing, but there was no one in the audience except for the Real Housewives, and they were having dinner, talking to each other the whole time. All the cameras. It's very weird to be performing on stage, and all the cameras are facing the audience as they eat dinner and gossip. And you're, like, doing your set, eating shit. You're hoping for one crew member in the back to be laughing at you. And so I got to really see it up close. And it's kind of like I want to be able to believe it a little bit. And I need to believe a reality show. Like, I like Survivor, because you're like, they are struggling. They're trying to win. But Real Housewives, I go, I've seen it. It might as well be a TV show.

[B]

Sure. I think most people know that.

[A]

Some people.

[B]

And they don't care.

[A]

You know, I went to a professional wrestling match, and there's. There's, you know, the adults who just enjoy it, the kids who believe it's real. But then you saw the handful of adults who were, like, fucking mad, mad at the reference for missing that three pin, and you go, wow, you're enjoying this. In a way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I couldn't unless I hit my head. So Hard. And. And it looks like more fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and. And that's how. I think it's that mix. It's. It's like, it's. It's the same thing, I'm sure, with like. With like, Church. Some people are there and they're like, I enjoy just being here. And some people are like, wow, it's real. That's real.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a mix.

[B]

If you like a good reality show that is legit, where it's not, you know, edited to show a certain thing, or at least they're not manipulating you or exploiting the talent or whatever. Check out Alone.

[A]

Alone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's really good.

[A]

I think I've heard about this one.

[B]

Yeah, it's good. And it's pretty much, you know, I think they're on their 12th, 13th season at this point, but it's. They drop 10 survivalists in this, you know, very different each time. Remote, super harsh conditions, dangerous, and you get to bring 10 things with you. And. And that's it. And then they check in on them medically and they have a way to tap out if they need. And you. And they're all. They're all. They all believe they're going to be the last Survivor and they're Survivorless.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're trained in various aspects of it. And. And then they have all the, like, GoPros and a couple cameras that they put in there when they make their structures or tents or lean tos or whatever, and. And you just watch them and it's. And it's. It's fascinating and it's great, but there's no. At least you don't. You can't see and you don't. It doesn't occur to you that, oh, they manipulated this with the editing because there's just not a lot to this. You know, they'll have cliffhanger kind of stuff like, you know, oh, no, how bad is her? You know, you know, whatever. And then they'll go to another person. But they don't. It's not like manufactured, Real world, Real Housewives, kind of like, hey, you know what she said about you? Kind of shit.

[A]

Would you. In a different life where you weren't in entertainment, do you think you would do one of those shows, like, would you be on Survivor if it somehow fit?

[B]

I would do Amazing Race. Cause that's kind of my. That's kind of up my alley. I love that kind of shit. I'm not necessarily good at it, but that appeals to me much more than. And I really just don't like the. As I said, I'm a bad liar and I don't like the manipulative mind game fuckery that Survivor has. And I, I, it just would bum me out. And I don't. I wouldn't be good at it. And. But something like the Amazing Race where, you know, it's, It's. There's a bit of kind of, are you gonna do this gross thing or. And also you have to use your brain and figure out puzzles and you have to fucking scramble. I like all those little elements.

[A]

I do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I do it. Who'd you go with? You. Is that the one you have, partner?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I mean, it's diff. I mean, you know, now that I have physical limitations, I. Who would I go with? God, probably Bob Odenkirk.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, that'd be good. We went to Machu Picchu this summer.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Or I should say last summer.

[A]

Would. They would like. I would pick my girlfriend. But people.

[B]

Absolutely not.

[A]

One of my good friends. He would hate it. He just hates. So it would have to be. She's very smart, good at puzzle stuff. But people would have to witness us argue. I feel like if we're doing the Amazing Race, you are seeing us argue with each other.

[B]

Yeah. I'm sure that's good for the viewer at home.

[A]

Good for the viewer at home. Sure.

[B]

Not great for you guys.

[A]

So we're both very. We're loud. We come from loud families. So, you know, we argue verbally and someone.

[B]

Is she Italian?

[A]

No, but she grew up chabad.

[B]

The Italian of the other Italian. Yeah.

[A]

But someone once saw us and this was like. I mean, we met in Covid. It was intense. The first year was just. I mean, we were basically living together during a pandemic. Right away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And someone. Someone saw us once and you're still together.

[B]

That's pretty. That says something.

[A]

It is, yeah.

[B]

That says a lot.

[A]

It does. I remember they said, like, in China, people were getting divorced and the government was like, trying to release, like, hey, work it out. Propaganda.

[B]

Yeah, hey.

[A]

But someone saw us and we were like, we're just having an argument. And someone said, oh, I saw you and your girlfriend. You're either like in an argument or you were rehearsing a scene. And I was like, oh, you got us. You got us. We were doing Macbeth. It's our favorite.

[B]

Rehearsing a scene.

[A]

We're doing a modern retelling set at a cvs. It's great.

[B]

Rehearsing a scene.

[A]

So that's you know. But it's our love language, too.

[B]

Yeah, sure. I mean, some people, culturally, that's, you know, if somebody else could look at that and go, oh, my God, that's terrible. But that's just how you communicate.

[A]

Interrupting is a big. I think, at least, again, not that I know. Potomac had a lot of Jewish people, and I'm Jewish, but wasn't raised religiously. But I think there's a lot of cross talking, over talking, getting louder. And some people, I think, oh, Jesus Christ, you fucking. You're rude. Yeah, but it's like. No, that's what we do.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, watch. Watch the Sopranos.

[A]

The Italian of Jews.

[B]

You're Italian and Jewish. She's just. Excuse me. She's just Jewish.

[A]

Just Jewish. Her mom. Her mom's from England. Her mom converted, so her mom's. Her grandma's from England, and then her dad is Jewish.

[B]

Jewish.

[A]

But she was raised, like, much more religiously than me.

[B]

Yeah. Was she Hasidim or.

[A]

So I sometimes get it wrong, but I believe if Hasidim is a bigger umbrella. Chabad is a. Is a. Is. One version of chabad would be described, I think, as like the chill. Hasidic, which still.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's. I mean. Right. I gotcha. So they still do. So Orthodox. But the. They're not. Does she have to.

[A]

They're not shaving. The mom's not shaving the head.

[B]

No wig. Right.

[A]

But, you know, all to keep kosher. So. She did for a long time. And then as we've been dating, I gradually, I've gotten her to oysters.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

You know, and I think what's hard is she has the cilantro gene. She's allergic to bananas. She doesn't like cantaloupe or melon. She's allergic to dates, doesn't like cat. So it's a long list. And then the kosher on top of it. It's a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So oysters, strangely enough, is the one that. She'll order oysters on her own now.

[B]

Okay. So you. It's kind of the idea of, like, being a little bit pregnant. You're either kosher or you're not. And if you're eating shellfish, you're not kosher.

[A]

But it's not that anymore. It's literally about the texture to her. It's just gross.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it's not. It really is nothing about the religion.

[B]

So. Cheeseburger?

[A]

No, no, no. She'll mix meat and dairy.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I don't think she did when she was younger. But, yeah, she mixes meat and dairy. But pork is a brutal. I got her to have one bite of salami recently.

[B]

Well, don't start off with the salami. You gotta get. How about this?

[A]

I said pulled pork is where I said we should start. Some juicy pulled pork.

[B]

Pulled pork with a little coleslaw and a pickle on it.

[A]

I know, but pork is tough. She's had a little bite of shrimp. Didn't like it. Little bite of lobster. But there's interesting. Getting her to have a bite and having her.

[B]

What about a rib? Like a beautiful. Fallen off the bone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Smoked.

[A]

I want to. It's tough when the bones there, you know, that might feel a little intense. I think pulled pork's the answer. I've tried bacon. Yeah, it's tough. No crab, no lobster.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My dream. I want to. I say she. One day, I think she will surprise me. She said, I wanted to do this, but she didn't have the time for her to, like, get used to crab on her own. And the birthday for me surprises me. Go out to, like, a big, you know, wooden crab. Yeah, that's what I want.

[B]

What about and Potomac? So there was some crab. You had your shares of shares.

[A]

I think it's more like you go to Baltimore.

[B]

Potomac is like, I don't know what I'm talking about. Country club bullshit.

[A]

Ugh, I hate it.

[B]

All right, well, thank you so much for coming down here and doing this. And I like to close every show with a question from my daughter, who.

[A]

How old now?

[B]

She just turned 8. So she would have been 7 when she came up with this question. And it's for you, John Marco Cerezi.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Here's the question. Why do different places have different languages?

[A]

Oh, gosh. I believe that human beings were spread out around the world, so they had their own little group of people. So let's say there's just 50 people, and they don't have any language. So then gradually they have to start speaking. And they go, oh. And I go, ooh, that means rock. And I go, ooh, that means tree. And so they develop their own thing. But then on the other side of the world, a different group of people, they go, ooh means tree and means rock. And so then that's how their languages start. And then before you know it, it gets more complicated. More complicated. And suddenly one's going, bongiorono. One's going, konichiwa. And. And then one day they get to meet and they go, wow, we've developed this whole different thing. But then maybe these two, they. They get married and they go somewhere else, and then they. They mix konichiwa and buongiorno, and it comes out buenos dias. And that's how Mexican came to be. And, yeah, then we have language, huh?

[B]

So, in short, because of the Japanese and Italians, all language comes from Japanese and Italians.

[A]

They're the Jewish of Arabs.

[B]

And then Spanish used to be called Mexican, but then at some point became Spanish. All right, man. Thank you so much.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

All right, A pleasure. Hey, go. You plugged everything you want to plug?

[A]

Yeah. Find me. And I got a podcast called the Downside.

[B]

There you go. Wink Sense is working overtime is a Headgum podcast created and hosted by me, David Cross. The show is edited by Katie Skelton and engineered by Nicole Lyons with supervising producer Emma Foley. Thanks to Demi Druchin for our show Art and Mark Rivers for our theme song. For more podcasts by headgum, visit headgum.com or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and maybe we'll read it on a future episode. I'm not gonna do that. Thanks for listening.

[A]

That was a Headgum podcast.