Mark Normand

Summary

Podcast Summary: Senses Working Overtime with David Cross featuring Mark Normand

Introduction and Initial Banter (00:02 - 02:00)

The episode kicks off with a playful exchange between host David Cross (A) and comedian Mark Normand (B). They engage in light-hearted banter about seating arrangements, subtly setting a relaxed and conversational tone for the episode.

Health Insurance: A Heated Debate (02:00 - 15:36)

A significant portion of the conversation delves into Mark's unconventional stance on health insurance. Mark reveals, “[I’m] trying to go the whole life” without it (09:19). David counters vehemently, highlighting the risks inherent in such a decision:

“That is the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard.” (09:30)

Mark defends his choice by emphasizing personal responsibility and minimal healthcare needs:

“I can go out to a nice dinner. I could buy a pair of pants.” (14:48)

Despite David’s attempts to persuade Mark about the importance of insurance, the discussion remains tense yet humorous, illustrating differing perspectives on financial priorities and personal risk management.

Personal Life: Marriage and Parenthood (05:21 - 10:40)

Mark shares insights into his personal life, mentioning his recent marriage of two years and his upcoming role as a father:

“My wife’s pregnant and I’m terrified of that.” (06:41)

David relates by sharing his experiences as a parent, reinforcing the universal anxieties and joys that come with raising a child:

“Every cliche is absolutely true.” (06:58)

The conversation touches on the challenges and transformations that parenthood brings, blending humor with heartfelt reflections.

Comedy Scene Insights: New Orleans vs. New York and Boston (10:40 - 43:22)

Mark discusses his brief stint in New Orleans, highlighting the city's limited support for stand-up comedy compared to hubs like New York and Boston. He explains, “It's like wanting to go see music, they want to get drunk, they want to dance. So it never really took off there” (31:11). David reminisces about performing in various cities, noting the unique challenges each locale presents:

“Nashville is very on the cusp of losing its character.” (20:22)

They compare neighborhoods like Dumbo in Brooklyn to Nashville’s Broadway, emphasizing how development can dilute a city's original charm:

“You lost all its charm and character.” (20:49)

Mark reflects on the necessity of curating comedy shows in cities lacking strong comedy cultures, stressing the importance of maintaining quality amidst inconsistent support.

Stand-Up Comedy: Barriers and Challenges (43:22 - 52:30)

The duo transitions into a discussion on the state of stand-up comedy, lamenting the ease of entry into the field and the proliferation of underprepared comedians. David critiques individuals who enter comedy without the necessary skills:

“There are people who go to open mic nights... they do pretty much the same seven-minute set for years.” (28:00)

Mark agrees, highlighting the lack of originality and persistence among many aspiring comedians:

“You can just go up and start talking and you’re like, I’m holding a microphone. I’m at a comedy club. I’m a comic.” (28:06)

They explore the romanticized struggles of aspiring comedians, juxtaposing the reality of constant travel, poor venues, and the grind required to succeed.

Creative Processes and Collaboration (52:30 - 53:32)

As the episode nears its end, David and Mark delve into creative brainstorming, discussing potential comedy sketches and the challenges of crafting socially sensitive material. They consider a sketch inspired by Chappelle’s Show, pondering its feasibility and sensitivity:

“The racist joke savant who gets no credit.” (51:12)

The conversation underscores the delicate balance comedians must maintain between edgy humor and respectful portrayal of sensitive topics.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts (53:32 - 54:43)

The episode wraps up with a humorous and endearing segment where David shares a question from his daughter about the differences in how male and female dogs pee. Mark provides a witty and scientifically-minded response:

“I think it's a genitalia or the anatomy...” (53:40)

This light-hearted conclusion reinforces the show's blend of humor and genuine conversation, leaving listeners with a smile.

Notable Quotes:

• On Health Insurance:

  “That is the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever heard.” – David Cross (09:30)

• On Parenthood:

  “Every cliche is absolutely true.” – David Cross (06:58)

• On Comedy Scenes:

  “Nashville is very on the cusp of losing its character.” – David Cross (20:22)

• On Stand-Up Challenges:

  “There are people who go to open mic nights... they do pretty much the same seven-minute set for years.” – David Cross (28:00)

• On Creative Processes:

  “The racist joke savant who gets no credit.” – Mark Normand (51:12)

Conclusion

"Senses Working Overtime with David Cross" featuring Mark Normand offers an engaging blend of humor, personal insights, and thoughtful debates on topics ranging from health insurance to the intricacies of the stand-up comedy scene. Mark's candidness coupled with David's incisive humor provides listeners with both laughs and meaningful reflections, making the episode a valuable listen for fans and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[A]

This is a Headgum podcast, Mark. Nice to meet you.

[B]

Meet me what you did by pun.

[A]

Okay, go ahead.

[B]

What?

[A]

You saw that, the hesitation.

[B]

Well, you.

[A]

No, no, I. Yeah, exactly. You just made an assumption. I think that's all right.

[B]

I did.

[A]

But go ahead, sit there.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah. Back in the red chair now. That's okay. But is that what you want?

[B]

Because I know.

[A]

No, no, I wanted these two. Are we able to do that? Well, I switched it back for you. Oh, thank you. So, yes, you can have the blue chair or the red chair.

[B]

All right. Feels weird with a seat open between us.

[A]

Thank you. So here's. Here's what happened is I came in. It had been a while since I'd done a podcast. I was out on the road, and I came in, and then they had reconfigured the room, and because this is the other day. Right. Tony Shalhoub was here, and. And I. I. I was not happy with it. I mean, I wasn't shitty or a diva or anything, but because of what you just said, I like. Because, you know, Tony was. Just sit over there for one second.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's too far. It's too far away. It's too far. You got to sit over there. Yeah. We're fighting. Yes. Well, thanks for coming in.

[B]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

Sorry. And. And nothing to be sorry about. You're literally exactly on time. I don't know that that's ever happened.

[B]

I'll do a glass of water, no ice.

[A]

Why?

[B]

A, I think it takes up water room, and B, it clinks for the. For the audio.

[A]

It does take up water room, but will eventually be water itself.

[B]

True. But I think it takes more than it gives. Like, on the flight, I always go, Coke Zero, no ice. I want every drop of that zero.

[C]

And.

[A]

And you're. You're from New Orleans.

[B]

Oh, yeah. He's my boy Patton out there on the road.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that until just recently. He had mentioned that. And there's. And I get this a lot, too, but there's very. I'm from Atlanta, but there's very. There's nothing New Orleans about you externally.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I grew up in the city, you know, little liberal blue dot. And you go outside, it's.

[C]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Same thing in Georgia.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, so.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't have a twang. I don't have an accent. I feel you go 10 minutes out, and it's. He. Ha. Camo hat. Well, you know, gator hunting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I You know, I grew up, went to public school, the whole thing. So yeah, I don't have all the. The cage. And everybody's like, where's your alligator? You don't have a shrimp for a pet?

[A]

I mean, that's. You know, that perception is silly. That's like just ignorance. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's like New Yorkers. No one's like, forget about it.

[A]

Right, exactly, exactly.

[B]

That guy doesn't exist.

[A]

Which has always. You don't see it as much anymore. But back when I was like teenager in high school, and you'd see like there would be a pizza place that would open up, like New York style pizza or whatever. And there was a comic open micro. Did this joke that used to fucking bug the shit out of me about, hey, have you been to the. Because it was right down from the. Where the club was. You've been to the New York style pizza place. You go in, they go, here's your fucking pizza. That's not what they do.

[B]

That's not what they do.

[A]

They don't do that.

[B]

Exactly. They get shut down.

[A]

Yes, they get shut down. You probably lose business.

[B]

You should.

[A]

You might want to consider going and checking out.

[B]

There is a rest. There's a restaurant here called Peter Luger's. I don't know if you've been there. It's a steakhouse in Brooklyn. And they're a little cunty. And I think that's part of their.

[A]

Shtick as like Durgan, the place in Boston. And Faneuil Hall. Yes, Durgan Park.

[B]

Durgan Park.

[A]

They're known. They're like. It's part of a shtick now. They've been around for what, 200 years? And the part of the shtick is they're, you know, don't take any guff waitresses, you know, and there's a place in Atlanta where it's a burger place that this lady. It's like, you know, a. Almost like a diner car. Just. It's a small place, you know, window. And, you know, she's got 97 rules that are written down. You can't swear, you can't do no this, no that, you know, and those are. All right, I don't mind that. I don't. The Peter Luger thing is just dumb to me.

[B]

Yeah. I gotta say. Atlanta, great comedy town. Much like New Orleans. Hard to get a pinpoint on Atlanta because it's. It's Southern, but it's very super progressive. Black, gay, but very industrious too. But still kind of.

[A]

When you say industrious too, well, they got skyscrapers. Right. I think you want to be careful. You want to be careful about saying it's got black people and gay people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And also people who work hard.

[B]

Well, I don't mean like that. I mean, I know you don't.

[A]

That's why I'm clarifying it for the audience so that they don't.

[B]

You got your honky, you got your.

[A]

Camo, you got black people and gay people. And it's a city is what you mean. Oh, wait, you're. So you're married?

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Oh, okay. I just noticed the ring there. How long you been married?

[B]

Two years. Is.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So brand new.

[B]

I'm in there. I give it another year. No, I'm kidding. She's a good egg. I'm a lucky guy. All right, flip that and send it to her.

[A]

What was I going to say? How long were you dating? Or did you know her before you got married?

[B]

Seven years.

[A]

Oh, that's a long time.

[B]

I pushed it as long as I could.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I understand.

[B]

It's scary. I was scared.

[A]

Of course. Of course, now it's.

[B]

Once you're in it, it's not so bad. I'm scared of everything. Like, we have a. She's pregnant and I'm terrified of that.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, you should be.

[B]

That's.

[A]

That's, you know, helpful. That's. Or healthy. That's normal. It's. I mean, you'll do fine in everything, but, I mean, there's you every. I will tell you this as a father of an almost 8 year old.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. Every cliche is absolutely true. Every single thing that you've heard people either bitch about or be elated about. Every one of those fucking things is true.

[B]

Wow. Yeah. I keep hearing long nights, short years.

[A]

There's a better. I think a more succinct one, which is every. Every day is like a year. Every year is like a day. And it's very true.

[B]

Wait a minute. Every day is. Oh, wow, that's good.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, until they reach a certain age. But the first. I mean, fuck, man, it. You know, my wife was leaving a lot in. During the2016,18 election. Is that right? No, 16. Whatever it was, she was doing stuff for Elizabeth Warren and stuff like that and traveling a lot. And then I would be with my daughter, who at the time was three and a half, I guess, and maybe four, but, man, it was like, by the end of the weekend, you're just exhausted. It's just me and her and looking forward to It. Always looking forward to it. And then just like after I get the whole. Having a glass of wine, the wine moms, like after, you know, Sunday night.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

After she went to bed, I was like, oh, my God, that was fucking nuts. Yeah, it was crazy.

[B]

Oof. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not ready for that, you know, because they're. They're trying to kill themselves. They're touching outlets, they're putting everything in their mouth.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You.

[A]

It's non stop, you know, and you know it's not. How, how far along is your wife?

[B]

Seven months.

[A]

Okay. You can still abort it.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

You can't go. I know, I know. A guy knows a guy.

[B]

That's true. Okay, well, give me that number when I leave because you never know.

[A]

Okay. He. He takes Venmo. No, Blue Cross, Blue Shield.

[B]

Oh, even better.

[A]

I don't know if you're. If you're on one of those plans.

[B]

I am not. I don't. I'm 41 years old. I have never had health insurance.

[A]

That's fucking crazy.

[B]

I'm trying to go the whole life.

[A]

So you'll live to be 42?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You gotta get health insurance, dude.

[B]

I've never needed it. I rarely get sick.

[A]

That is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard.

[B]

I mean, I've had.

[A]

I never needed it, so I don't have it.

[B]

You know, you break a toe, I go into the urgent care.

[A]

Forget breaking a toe. I'm not talking about breaking a toe. First of all, you're 41 and you're a stand up. Your body is going to break down quicker than other people's. You think, what do you eat?

[B]

I eat pretty good.

[A]

When you're on the road, what do you eat?

[B]

Percocet, Panda Express. Waffle House?

[A]

No, Percocets and Panda Express.

[B]

I'm off bread. That wasn't easy. And I drink. One day a week. I drink. I used to drink every night.

[A]

Okay, well, that's good. That's good.

[B]

Drugs.

[A]

Well, you'll. All right, well, those are all good things. And you know, you'll be kind of forced to clean up more when your kid's born. Do you know if it's a boy or a girl?

[B]

Boy, yeah.

[A]

Gay or straight?

[B]

We're waiting on that one.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Gonna breastfeed. So if it's gay, it's gonna be miserable.

[A]

Well, teach it early, you know, but yeah, you should be okay. But you should get health insurance. That's crazy. Really?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, in the United States.

[B]

What do I need it for?

[A]

I mean, if you haven't figured that out, you know, what the, like, hit.

[B]

By a car kind of stuff you're talking about?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Or, I don't know, maybe there's a. A disease that is, like, you know, spans the globe, and people get it. Aids, maybe aids, you know?

[B]

Yeah. That is scary.

[C]

New aids.

[A]

Super aids. Yeah.

[B]

There's a new aids, yeah. Ah, geez.

[A]

Yeah, new and improved. But, I mean, that's. You're crazy not to get health insurance.

[B]

All right? I haven't needed it.

[A]

It's. I don't know what to say that. Is this the dumbest thing you could say? Do you. Hopefully you never will need it.

[B]

Well, what if you pay for it every month and you never even use it? That's a waste of moolah.

[A]

Well, it's not a waste if. It would be a waste if it. If you lived a very healthy life for the next, say, 40, 50 years and never needed it, never got in an accident, never was subject to somebody else's, you know, on their phone while they're driving in traffic and whatever happens. Or maybe you. You get Lyme disease. Maybe you get a bite from a tick and not aware of it, and you get Lyme. Maybe you get. I mean, there's a million things. Maybe there's some germs somewhere. You stay in a hotel, you're on the road, you're not even aware of it. You get some mouth from the shower head. I mean, water from the shower head in your mouth, and who knows what that has and whatever.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then you're so sick. I've had a couple of surgeries. I had a whole major rotator cuff, like, replacement tendon thing. I had. I can't remember what this one was called. It's whatever the golfer's elbow is.

[B]

Oh, yeah, it's this.

[A]

I can't remember the name of it, but I had to have this all done. And this is the United States. Like, if I didn't. Also dental insurance, too. I have. I mean, things that would have cost, I mean, multiple tens of thousands of dollars. I mean, with this one in particular, I mean, we're talking over six figures for everything, all in the PT and everything. And I have insurance, so.

[B]

Really? Okay, well, now you're making a good case.

[A]

But I also have. I have insurance through my unions, you know, SAG, AFTRA, and WGA and have for a while. I mean, I've had WGA since the early 90s, so that's been. And it's been really, really helpful.

[B]

Yeah, I had a bad. The rotator. Cuh. I had that too. That is the worst. It hurts to lift your arm. And I watched a YouTube video on how to cure it and I fixed it.

[A]

I. I mean, I don't know what to say.

[B]

It's good as new. Never had one problem with it.

[A]

Then you didn't really have a maybe.

[B]

Before, but it was bad. It could sleep.

[A]

Okay. If.

[C]

What was.

[A]

So what did they tell you?

[B]

How did.

[A]

How do you fix it?

[B]

It said hang on a bar for as long as you can. It'll. It'll align you.

[A]

Oh, so it wasn't ripped tendons, you didn't have.

[B]

No, it was a tendon, but it. To do this, it was like. Ah.

[A]

So it was out of alignment.

[B]

Maybe that was it.

[A]

Okay, well then, yeah, hang on a bar.

[B]

I hung on a bar and I'm back, baby.

[A]

Okay. But yeah, I'm. I'm talking about a. A different. Okay injury. Like when you see pictures and they get Tommy John. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

All right, gotcha. Sorry. I feel like I let you down. I'm gonna get health insurance.

[A]

I mean, my parents think I have.

[B]

It, so let's cut that.

[A]

So wait, so you're. Your whole thing about not having insurance is because you save, you know, whatever your premium is a month, you get to save that. What do you spend that money on?

[B]

Well, I got a child on the way. I got a.

[A]

No, no, no. Before you were pregnant, before you even got married, what would you spend the couple hundred bucks that you didn't spend on healthcare?

[B]

I could save it.

[A]

Health insurance.

[B]

I can go out to a nice dinner. I could buy a pair of pants.

[A]

So is a pair of pants and a nice dinner a month worth? Let's say you get. Let's say you have a. Need an appendectomy, Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which a bunch of people do out of the blue. Boom.

[B]

What is that?

[A]

Appendectomy when your appendix is on the verge of bursting. Got it. And if it does burst, then it's.

[C]

Serious and very toxic.

[A]

If not, you're just in a lot of pain, but you still have to do it quickly. And. And then you had to spend, let's say, 20 years worth of monthly dinner and a pair of pants.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And first of all, let me say that's a lot of pair of pants. That's a lot of pants. You don't need that many pants.

[B]

These are Amazon.

[C]

That's silly.

[A]

That's just silly. I had that many pants.

[B]

Couldn't Think of anything. I looked at the pants, and then.

[A]

How are you gonna feel about it?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I hear you, but think. I'm in the. If it was a casino, I'm winning because I haven't had not gone to the hospital. So that's just all. I'm all up. I'm in the black.

[A]

But this is not a casino.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

So you're not winning. You're just at stasis. You're at a. You're okay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. All right. It's kind of like when you get a parking ticket or whatever, and you go, I'm gonna fight it. And then you beat the ticket, and people go, you won. And you're like, well, what did I win? I Now I paid. I went to court. I missed a day of work. I paid zero. You didn't really win anything. Maybe that was a bad example, man.

[A]

You were full of bad examples.

[B]

I'm not a good example guy. I'll get one out of the good exampler. All right, that's my Batman villain, the bad exampler.

[A]

What's his catchphrase?

[B]

How about. This is like, if I stepped in dog shit and then went to Thanksgiving. The bad example strikes again.

[A]

That is a bad example of a bad. Of a bad example. It really is. It's meta almost what you're doing. And it's also clunky. And what a weird thing. That's a weird catchphrase to have to keep saying over and over again.

[B]

That's true. Yeah.

[A]

And what's the. Is there a superpower involved or.

[B]

I think he confused Batman because he's like, ah. It's another bad example. I can't tell what the hell this guy's talking about. So I'm a confuser, unlike the Riddler.

[A]

So you'd be working maybe in conjunction with somebody who actually does something. So you would go in and confuse him for a minute or two. Yeah, maybe not even a minute. Maybe a couple seconds.

[B]

Yeah. My costume would be. I would be scratching my head.

[A]

That's your costume.

[B]

That'd be my symbol on here.

[A]

Just a guy like, okay.

[B]

Because they don't get it.

[A]

Would you have to keep your identity?

[B]

I think I should, yeah. As most villains do.

[A]

You don't really seem like a villain, though. The exampler.

[B]

I was just giving a bad example.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Again. It's come full circle.

[B]

Brought it around deep in a hole.

[A]

Very nice. Do you have a. Anything you want to promote? I don't know when this will come out. Who knows, really?

[B]

Are we done? Already?

[A]

No, no, no, no. Just wait. Is it. Are we. Tony's this week and Mark is next week. Do we have any banked. No. Holy shiza.

[B]

Yikes.

[A]

Okay, well, sorry, Mark, you're it.

[B]

I'm ready. I'm ready. Put it out.

[A]

I was going to say, do you have anything you want to promote or whatever?

[B]

Sure, yeah. I'm doing the Ryman in Nashville. Come on out to that and listen to my podcast Tuesdays with stories and we might be drunk, which David, we had a fun time. Had a couple of brewskis and. Yeah. Follow me on the interwebs and all that good stuff. All right.

[A]

What are you doing at the Ryman?

[B]

Let's go. Stand up.

[A]

It's just like a one off thing.

[B]

It's a one show, one one hour set. Doing it. The Wild West Comedy Fest, whatever that is.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[B]

And yeah. So I love Nashville. So come on out.

[A]

Why would they call a comedy festival in Nashville the Wild West Comedy Show?

[B]

I never even thought about that.

[A]

It's not even west of this in the state. It's in the east.

[B]

That's a good point. I guess it's like a cowboy theme, but. Yeah, you got something there. Should be the Honky Tonk Fest.

[A]

Yeah, man, that fucking. What is it? Broadway, Right. Where all the. Holy shit.

[B]

Bummer.

[A]

That is. I do like Nashville. You ever go to Dino's? Yeah, yeah, I love Dino's.

[B]

Good stuff.

[A]

Yeah, I like Nashville.

[C]

I did tell them.

[A]

I was just there a couple weeks ago and I said, and I've been going there off and on for decades. But I said, speaking as somebody who is from Atlanta and spent a bunch of time in Seattle and lives in Brooklyn and goes to Austin, Texas a lot. Listen to what I'm saying. There is a point where you need to stop building. You are going to lose your character. Nashville is very on the cusp of losing its character, which every place I've mentioned, I still love. Still love Brooklyn, love Seattle, love Atlanta, love Austin. But man, they're different in not a good way.

[B]

Yeah, I completely agree. Nashville is getting a little sceney, but it's just too.

[A]

It's too. They've got those, like the gulch, right? Which is those mixed use, but also people live there. But then there are these kind of like oddly corporate, like small chain restaurant bar places. It's like Dumbo here. You ever go to Dumbo?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Dumbo is like what this is like a yuppie playground. It's this fucking.

[B]

It's.

[A]

I lost all its charm and character.

[B]

Yeah, it looks great because you have the old buildings and the streets and the cobblestone and the Brooklyn Bridge in the distance, but.

[A]

Oh, exterior wise, it looks awesome. But yeah, you look totally lost.

[B]

It's a yoga studio. That's a graphic design firm with a ping pong table. Yeah, it's completely lost its culture.

[A]

Anyway, Nashville is, I think, at the tipping point of that.

[B]

I completely agree.

[A]

You know, there's a point where it's, you know, diminishing returns on all your development and stuff.

[B]

I think it's like anything in life, it gets too big, it too popular and it, it starts to dilute.

[A]

Yeah, I, I don't.

[B]

Well, look at comedy. Yeah, we had. We used to have all these great comics as. There's like eight guys, eight comics. And now it's like, I don't want to say any names, but, you know.

[A]

Are you talking about Theo Vaughn? You talking about Matt Rife?

[B]

I like Theo.

[A]

I like. He seems nice.

[B]

Like Nashville.

[A]

Was he a Nashville guy?

[B]

Yeah, he's a Nashville funny guy. I mean, he's had.

[A]

So who then are you talking about? Because I assumed.

[B]

I don't want to name names.

[A]

Well, name them. I named a couple in your. You talking about the. The Paul brothers?

[B]

Are they doing comedy?

[A]

No, I don't.

[B]

Oh, they might, they might start. Please don't start doing comedy. Those queefs. But you know, Chris Kattan is doing stand up for some reason, stuff like that.

[A]

Like, oh, Tom Brady and John Mayer are gonna be Daniels Stormy. There you go. Sure. That's been around though, where people kind of take their 15 minutes. Not necessarily 15 minutes, but you know what I mean. They are known for this other thing. They decide, hey, I want to do stand up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

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[C]

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[B]

Frustrating.

[A]

Now I haven't seen him, but I've heard John Mayer is like an insufferable stand up guy.

[B]

I heard the same, but I think he's since given up.

[A]

Okay, cool.

[B]

Thank God.

[A]

Yeah, I heard some really bad like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then things he said like doubling down on stage when people would give him shit. Which is a thing that you have.

[C]

To learn as a stand up.

[A]

It takes a long time and you can't just go up there banking on celebrity and. And go. And then when people go, are however they express it, not happy with the thing you said. You better know how to respond to that. And then just for a guy to go, fuck you, I'm a millionaire.

[B]

It's like what? That's the opposite of comedy.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

But I'm completely with you. But the problem with stand up, what's great about it and what's horrible about it is there's no barrier to entry. You know, you don't have to learn a guitar, you don't have to learn the piano or even learn. That is.

[A]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

You can just go up and start talking and you're like, I'm holding a microphone. I'm at a comedy club. I'm a comic.

[A]

Well, and then you are. And that's kind of cool in a way. But there are a number of people and every scene has it and every decade has had it within their scenes. Where there are people who go to the open mic nights, you know, to perform, who just are, I suppose, deluded because they're not doing well. They do pretty much the same seven minute set for years. I get the adrenaline rush and how cool that thing is because I had it.

[B]

The social, there's a social aspect.

[A]

Some of those guys and women are not part of that. They're not really hanging out after they're so bad. And they just. And I'm talking every scene and every era has a number of those people who like you said, you go sign up, you get the mic, you go up and they just don't understand that they're not good.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not just that. They don't even actually like comedy. You know, you go, hey, you ever heard that Chris Rock pit? And they go, I never watched him. What about Carlin? Who? And you're like, what are you doing here? Do you have any reference that I haven't.

[A]

I don't know anybody that fits that.

[B]

That's right there. That's out there now. That's happened to me like a week ago, so.

[A]

And what do you think the reason was that they decided to do stand up?

[B]

I think for what you said, I think it's, hey, I'll get a video of me, I'll get a adrenaline boost. It'll be dopamine. I get to tell people I'm a comic. I get to like check off a bucket list thing.

[A]

Well, I guess I'm talking more about the people who continue to do it year after year. And they do it for years and they rarely write any new material. And quite often it's on the safer side. And they just, I mean, every scene, every era has it. There's a number of people who just. You see them at the open mic nights, you're like, I don't. What are you getting?

[B]

I know.

[A]

What are you doing? You're driving in from New Hampshire.

[B]

People don't have a lot. Not a lot of people have a thing. So they're like, this will be my thing and I'll. I'll half ass it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll never progress, but it's my thing.

[A]

Yeah. What made you. Or I shouldn't say what, but when did you know you had to get out of New Orleans, which doesn't. Isn't known for its stand up scene.

[B]

No way. It still really hasn't. It almost had a moment in the early 2000s, but it never really popped. The clubs open and closed. No one cares. We want to go see music, they want to get drunk, they want to dance. So it never really took off there, but I left after about eight months. Oh, wow. Yeah. Sean Patton lived here, so I said, that's kind of my lifeline. I'll go meet up with him in New York. And I always wanted to live in New York, so I got out quick. There's a real ceiling, like a Brad Williams height ceiling. New Orleans comedy.

[A]

Google Brad Williams for the joke.

[B]

Yes. We would drive to Lafayette, Houston, Atlanta, whatever. Florida.

[A]

Yeah, it's weird. I don't know why. I guess as you said, people want music, they want to get drunk. But you know, I've been doing New Orleans over the years, way, way back in the day. I did Howlin Wolf a couple times and. And I did two tours ago. I did the Joy Theater, and it was not a good show. It was really. It was. It was kind of early, too. I remember it was like at a. It was like a 7 o'clock show or something weird like that. And the. I mean, it was like half full, maybe, and the audience was just like. It wasn't a good show. And then a couple months ago, we did Tipitinas. It was Sean Patton, Shane Torres and myself. And it was sold out, packed, and it was fucking awesome.

[B]

Hell, yeah.

[A]

So there's a way to do it.

[B]

There's a way to do it.

[A]

And I think the Howlin Wolf shows were good. And that was also standing. It was a music venue where everybody stood instead of sitting down. But, man, that. That Joy Theater show is like. That was. It was. This sucks.

[B]

You have to really. What do you call it? Not cultivate. You have to really, like, manufacture your show. You really have to. What do you call that when you really get in there? Nitty gritty. Oh, it's the word I'm looking for. You really gotta. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

I'm watching your gesture, sister.

[B]

What's the. What am I talking. She's out to lunch. All right, what's the word? Well, you really gotta. Caricature or.

[A]

No, that's not.

[B]

Starts with a C, I think.

[A]

Okay, we've. Okay down to curate.

[C]

Curate.

[B]

Curate. I can't believe. I got it. You got to curate your show in New Orleans because it's so easy. Easy to go off the rails and not be good. Like, the Joy Theater is too. That's too general. I'm at a theater. If you like me, come out. I'm sure Sean got in there with a scalpel and was like, hey, let's do this show. Dave's coming. Here's his link. Here's a clip. You know this guy. You really got to get in there in New Orleans or else it'll just go off the rails too.

[C]

Well, Sean was saying as much too.

[A]

Like, it's just New Orleans is not a great comedy city.

[B]

It's that whatever reason. Yeah, I wish it was, but it got me out of there.

[A]

Yeah. Do you go back? Do you have. Is your family there and all that?

[B]

Oh, yeah. I go back every year for Thanksgiving or Mardi Gras or whatever. Jazz fest. I saw the Stones this year, and I have a show at the. Orpheum which is a big theater downtown.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's like 30% sold. And I'm like. I'm from there.

[A]

Yeah. But I mean, also that. That downtown area isn't. That's not good either.

[B]

No. It's like Bourbon or Broadway in Nashville and woof.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's. Well, Broadway is. Is in Nashville. Feels totally Taurus driven. Like, it's nothing. It's. It's Times Square. Right. And nobody who's from New York or lives in New York goes to hang out in Times Square. And I doubt anybody, you know, who lives in Nashville's like, hey, let's stroll up Broadway and go to the. You know.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

The whatever theme.

[B]

The Taylor Swift theme bar.

[A]

Just woof. And I happened to be there, too, on when the Predators were playing and Vanderbilt was playing somebody. And then there was another thing. There was another thing. Oh, the Country Music Academy had some. Jesus. It was nuts. It was. And I ended up staying like. And thank God, because I think initially I was gonna stay down there, and then I ended up staying somewhere else because the hotel rates were insane, you know? But, man, what a fucking nightmare, that.

[B]

Sorry. Yeah, it's a nightmare. I'm with you on that one. Oh, we lost cross. All right. I had a veg. I had an egg wrap earlier. The egg. It'll get you.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

I should have given some warning there, but I think I tilted it to the right.

[A]

If you. If you gave me a warning, I would have said, yes, you go out.

[B]

That's a good point.

[A]

I'm not going to clear Emma out of here. You're the one who needs to go out and fart in your own face.

[B]

That's true. Sorry. I did direct it to the right a little.

[A]

No, you didn't. You went this way.

[B]

I went right leg up. No, didn't I? Check the tape.

[A]

Roll it back.

[B]

Roll it back. Don't really roll it back.

[A]

That's disgusting.

[B]

Sorry. Well, I figured you're a comedian, you want a good fart joke.

[A]

But that wasn't a joke. It was just a fart.

[B]

Well, fart is.

[A]

You're a comedian. You'd like a good fart.

[B]

A fart is a joke in itself, is it not? It's my butt made a noise comedy girl.

[A]

Gonna be a great dad.

[B]

I can't wait.

[A]

Oh, boy.

[B]

Does your wife fart?

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

Okay. Mine really lets him rip.

[A]

Yeah. I think everyone's wives fart. It's part of being independent feminism. Feminist.

[B]

That was the big bra burning Was voting and farting.

[A]

I. Yeah. I mean, yeah. My. She's a prolific partner.

[B]

Oh, good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Good.

[A]

And we'll. Yeah, definitely let him rip.

[B]

Need shit with the door open?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay. No, I do. She likes it. She wants to keep the combo going.

[A]

I. That's. I, you know, I think part of it is because I grew up with two sisters and a mom, you know, and I was the only. You know, once my dad left, I was the only boy. And. And so really have a kind of sense of that privacy. Also, we. We didn't have a lot of money, so we're, you know, in a small apartment, so going into the bathroom was like five minutes apiece.

[B]

I hear that.

[A]

So there's no. There was some. It was not a good movie. It was like a. It was a movie about some brothers or either. Either they were in foster care or something together in Detroit. It had Andre 3000 and Mark Wahlberg.

[B]

Yeah. I think it was called Four Brothers.

[A]

Four Brothers. Okay. So there's a scene. I didn't see the whole movie. I saw, like, I don't know, 25 minutes. It wasn't very good. But there's a scene where one guy's in the bathtub. There's another guy taking a shit. And then they. They're all, you know, I'm dumb directing. We're like, why don't you eat a bowl of cereal while you're shooting one of those things? And they're all talking. Like, one guy's reading the newspaper and they're all. And like, really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What are you in fucking prison?

[B]

Yeah. You know, contrived.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now, did you think you were gonna make it when you started comedy? Because you're very unique.

[A]

I mean, I didn't.

[B]

I mean, you did come up in a perfect David Cross era. That era was made for you. The whole alternative scene with Bob and Tom. I'm not Bob and Tom. Geez. Bob and Dave.

[A]

Bob and Ray.

[B]

Yeah. I was going off a radio show from the 90s. Remember Bob and Tom?

[A]

I do remember Midwest. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do remember that.

[B]

But, yeah, I mean, that show, Mr. Show was like. That was the right place, the right time.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. That's very true. And it was in, you know, luckily, kismet wise, we were on HBO before HBO was a behemoth, when they were trying to make. Become distinctive. And their whole thing was, it's not tv, it's hbo. And they said to us, you know, early on, like, we're not interested in, you know, snl, whatever, you know, you have to do. You have to. Not that we altered anything to do this, but it's why it worked out is, you know, the deal was we're going to give you $9 to make a show, but don't. There's no notes. There's barely any notes. The whole four seasons we got less than one handful. I love that. And they were like, just do what you guys do. And that's why you're on hbo. And again, HBO has changed dramatically, but back then it was great. They're like, yeah, come do it. And I was in Boston when that whole scene was coming up. And I never would have gotten the skill set that I eventually came to have if I wasn't in Boston. Because during that comedy boom, and Boston in particular, certainly per capita more than any other place in America, for whatever reason, there were just a million shows at Chinese restaurants and, you know, fucking wherever. Yeah. And you had to put.

[C]

They had to fill them out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Say, so I got work that I think in another time, in another place, I would not have gotten the work, you know, because they just needed somebody. Here's 30 bucks. Go do 20 minutes. And you know, just don't fuck it up for the guy following you.

[B]

You know, you're so. I feel like you're very, you're very you. And I feel like Boston was kind of this machismo, beer swiggin coke, doing macho shit.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

But.

[A]

So there was, there was definitely that. But then the whole thing of like where quote unquote alternative comedy came from.

[B]

Was it was a response to that.

[A]

A response to that. And then. And you know, there was the. Our club was Catch A Rising Star in Cambridge, which already, which is by Harvard Square, which already has its fucking hoity toity, you know, Persona to it. Just because you're on that street and the other clubs are, you know, and Boston's got a weird. You've been there.

[B]

It's got many times.

[A]

It's got a real weird, like, you know, short guy kind of complex. And it's, it's like all people are always talking about like, yeah, well, New York's this, but it's not boss. And like, you know, people in New York think that, like nobody fucking thinks about Boston at all.

[B]

Not really.

[A]

It's. No, it's not. Stop it. Just be you be happy with where you are. But yeah, it's got a weird, you know, self esteem issue, I guess. They're always talking to you about how great it is and it's very provincial. It's, it's it's. And that's a knock on it unfortunately, but. And Boston more than other places is really two very different area. I mean there are, there are fucking working class jamo, you know, guys, bro. You know, working the steel yard type of, Type of blue collar. Yeah, yeah, blue collar. And then there's the, you know, progressive artsy, wellness community, goth, hippie, punk. You know, it's real separate, you know, and I don't mean separate like they're geographically. It's just they're two very distinct, different.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Types of people that all. Because it's a smaller city are all kind of moving amongst themselves and.

[B]

But I think that makes it good for comedy.

[C]

It was great.

[A]

It was fucking great. And then as I said, the, you know, you had your places like Comedy Connection and Nick's and you know what else? Stitches and I'm forgetting some that were down downtown.

[B]

Dick Doherty.

[A]

Dick Doherty's the Vault. What was the one on the right near Nick's Comedy Connection and Sam's and, and those had the comics you're talking about. You know, the, the coked up guys who just did. There were great comics, but they rarely wrote any new stuff and they looked down on, you know, success. I can remember when Dennis Leary got successful, it was kind of like, you know, it was just that thing of like, oh, he went Hollywood and, and, and you know, this idea of purity and all this shit and, and, and then the, you know, Janine Garofalo and Laura Kitelinger and Marc Maron and Mark, Mark and Louis had a foot in both of those spaces, but a lot of people didn't, you know, and then. And that's kind of where I was in that thing. And. And again, I got completely lucky because I, I got work when normally, like, I wasn't doing well, you know, and normally you just needed people in there and I fucking learned a lot and I ate a lot of shit and I got tough and you know, there's. I can't have a worse audience than some of the audiences I had, you know, in Boston and around there. Like, I've done it, I got it. And, and it's, you know, it wasn't fun at the time, but fuck, I mean it, it worked out.

[B]

Yeah, boy, did it.

[A]

So you gotta feel pretty good about that.

[C]

I do.

[A]

And you asked earlier whether I always knew I was gonna make it. And I, I never, I never knew I was gonna make it, but I always knew there was. I knew that I wasn't ever going to quit. Stand up and, and the fact that I didn't for many years when I was barely making any money, and. And it. And it was a chore, you know, and you're driving to fucking rutland, Vermont, for $40 and some egg rolls, you know, and. And that, you know, it's fucking 21 degrees in a snowstorm and you're in your shitty car. It just. You know that when you're doing that over and over and over and over again, you know, I never had that. I'm gonna make it, and da, da, da, da, da. I just. There wasn't. It never entered my mind, like, I really need to figure out my options here. So you just do it. And you either have that innately, I think, or you don't.

[B]

And there was a romance to it. You know, you got your half in the bag, you got your buddies in your car, you're swerving out on ice, going to some gig, and you drive home at 2 in the morning, and then you go shovel the ditch in the morning or whatever it is. And you were young and it was an adventure.

[A]

I laughed a lot. And also, I don't care that. And maybe this is partly what separated me from some other folks, but the fact that I upset some people at a shitty ski lodge, you know, cocktail bar up in fucking Stowe or something, I don't give a fuck. Yeah, because you're a stranger. I don't know a fucking thing about you. And you didn't like my joke about whatever. I don't care.

[B]

Right. But don't you want to kill.

[A]

Yes, I do. And there was a. Bob is always saying. And I've fucking tried to correct him a million times. He's under the perception that I would go on stage trying to bomb, and that's not true. I would. I would try my best. I pride myself on being a professional. But if you suss it out after 30 seconds, a minute, two minutes, and you're like, this isn't gonna work, and then I will go and push buttons. But I don't ever go out there going, fuck you assholes. I'm not like Red Fox on that famous story.

[B]

You have a little Larry David in you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That kind of like, this isn't gonna work out. Let's go nuclear.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But. But I always, always give it a shot. Always. And I pride myself in, you know, winning them back. We get him, getting people back. So, you know, and I wouldn't be at the place I'm. I'm at now if I didn't.

[B]

That's True.

[A]

So.

[B]

Yeah, well, you're a rare, rare breed where you can do the. You can do the silly stuff, or you can do the stand up, but you can also paint yourself blue.

[A]

What the fucking? That's me. Did you miss bro time or something? What happened? Did you not get to watch the. The football game yesterday?

[B]

I don't. I don't watch football.

[A]

Well, that's all right. Why don't you start watching football and then you could save all your burps and your farts for the game, all right?

[B]

I didn't know this was tea time over here at the Cross residence.

[A]

It's.

[B]

What is this, Downton Abbey, huh? Etiquette class? I thought we were just hanging out. She queefed earlier. That's not true. All right?

[A]

No, that was me.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, it was very airy, but sorry, it won't happen again. That's the last expel of my body.

[A]

Well, I mean, here's the. Here's the thing. It's not. It's not that you farted or that you burped. It's not. It's this and then I. And then with the. You know, and then I. Yeah, so there's a way to do both of those things. Yeah.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Are you. Are you an only kid?

[B]

No, no. Older brother.

[A]

Oh, of course. Well, there you go. There you go.

[B]

What does that mean?

[A]

That means he would have taught you those. That.

[B]

No, he's very dainty. Not dainty, but he's very sophisticated.

[A]

So. So I would infer that you realize you're not sophisticated.

[B]

I guess so.

[A]

Your coarse. You're common. You're. You're.

[B]

You're.

[A]

You're just sewer garbage. Your chud.

[B]

Chud. I like that. I would say chode if we're being realistic.

[A]

No, judge, I have something. Something underwater of an underground dweller.

[B]

Oh, is that a chud?

[A]

Yeah, there was a horror movie called.

[C]

Chud and it was something.

[A]

Something Underground Dweller.

[B]

Oh, kind of like marta.

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, it's not a. What do you call that?

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

An anagram.

[A]

Not an anagram. An acronym.

[B]

An acronym.

[A]

Yeah, we got it. An acronym is an allowance. Creatively. I don't remember.

[B]

You got this, Dave. Come on. And I'm giving.

[A]

Go up on my joke.

[B]

An acronym is a. What's another example of one like fema? Yeah, okay, got it.

[A]

But MARTA was just something that somebody put on.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

They made up their own acronym again.

[B]

That took time. That guy, that racist guy had to sit. Probably get pen to paper on that.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, and it. It. Somebody somewhere was taking credit for it.

[C]

Never met him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's somebody at, you know, like, I came up with that. That was me.

[B]

We should do that sketch. That'd be a great sketch. The racist joke savant who gets no credit.

[A]

Man Bob had a really good idea for a sketch we never ended up doing about a. A. All the hip hop guys were getting there. They would go visit this, like, old southern racist guy and his porch in, you know, Georgia or wherever. And it was basically, he would take, you know, their lyrics, and he's like, oh, ain't. But, you know, whatever it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they would all sit there and listen and write it down.

[B]

And then they go, oh, that's hilarious.

[A]

Yeah, it was. It was a good. It was a good idea.

[B]

That's very Chappelle Showy.

[A]

Yeah, pre.

[C]

Pre.

[A]

Chappelle, Pre.

[B]

But I like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You gonna bleep that N word or what?

[A]

No, because it's the a. It's the.

[C]

Ah.

[B]

I don't know about. I don't know if that flies. Yeah.

[A]

Ah, okay.

[B]

It's your show. See, it's my show. That worse. That's worse than farting.

[A]

I disagree. I don't think when you're in the context of this idea, I think you can. You should be able to communicate it as it's intended.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right.

[A]

I'm not a big proponent of that. Like, if you're. If you're literally quoting somebody, you should quote them. You should say that. And if you have an issue with that, you should. Then good. You have an issue with it, and it makes you feel a certain way.

[B]

I'm not offended. I just worry about people getting mad at you.

[A]

Oh, that's fine.

[B]

All right. I respect that.

[A]

It's fine. People are always. Somebody somewhere is always gonna be mad at me.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

That's fine.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Mark. I'm gonna have to wrap it up because I am parked on 17th and 4th.

[B]

You got the baby in the car and.

[A]

Yep, it's hot out. So I end every episode with a question from my daughter.

[B]

Ooh.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I never touched her.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

All right, all right.

[A]

Good stuff.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

So this is from my daughter. This is a question, and you can answer it in whatever way you see fit.

[C]

Mark Normand.

[A]

Why do girl dogs squat and pee? And why do boy dogs lift their legs to pee? Ooh.

[B]

I think it's a genitalia or the anatomy. I assume the men, male dogs, have a wiener or a red rocket or a lipstick, as we call it in the business. And I think they got to get that away from the leg. So they lift the leg up, let it fly, and then the squatting. The vaginal urethra can just be close to the earth and hit the grass, hence the squat.

[A]

Makes perfect sense.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you, Mark.

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

Sense is Working Overtime is a Headgum podcast created and hosted by me, David Cross. The show is edited by Katie Skelton and engineered by Nicole Lyons with supervising producer Emma Foley. Thanks to Demi Druchin for our show art and Mark Rivers for our theme song. For more podcasts by headgum, visit headgum.com or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and maybe we'll read it on a future episode.

[A]

I'm not gonna do that.

[C]

Thanks for listening.

[A]

That was a Headgum podcast.