Michael Kosta

Summary

Podcast Title: Senses Working Overtime with David Cross
Host/Author: Headgum
Episode: Michael Kosta
Release Date: February 6, 2025

---

Introduction

In this episode of "Senses Working Overtime," host David Cross engages in a candid and humorous conversation with comedian and former professional tennis player Michael Kosta. The dialogue navigates through a myriad of topics, blending personal anecdotes with sharp social commentary.

---

Michael Kosta's Early Life and Tennis Career

Michael Kosta opens up about his early aspirations in tennis, sharing both struggles and milestones.

• Tennis Ranking and Challenges: Kosta reveals, “[33:13]... my career high was 864.”

• Turning Point: Reflecting on a pivotal moment after losing a crucial match in South Korea, Kosta discusses his decision to pivot from tennis to comedy:
  “[35:08]... I had very little belief. The belief had expired. And I had seen players 10 years older than me that hadn't quit when they were where I was, and I really didn't want to be them.”

---

Transition from Tennis to Comedy

The conversation delves into Kosta's seamless transition from the courts to the comedy stage.

• Investor Relations: Kosta humorously admits to financial struggles during his tennis career and his reliance on investor support to switch careers:
  “[36:57]... I took their money, and then I fled. And that's.”

• Book Insight: Previewing his upcoming book, "Lucky Loser," Kosta explains the dual meaning behind the title, symbolizing both his unsuccessful tennis career and his fortunate switch to comedy:
  “[65:05]... in tennis, if you lose in the last round of qualifying... you're lucky.”

---

Personal Life and Marriage

Kosta shares insights into his married life, highlighting the dynamics of support and differing views on health.

• Marital Support: Discussing how he manages injuries with his wife's support, Kosta notes:
  “[05:24]... my wife was getting on me because I.”

• Parenting: The couple's parenting experiences add a heartfelt layer to the conversation, especially with their young daughters:
  “[65:52]... She asks... I have a question for your podcast.”

---

Health and Injuries

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Kosta's physical ailments and his humorous take on them.

• Foot Injuries: Kosta details his severe foot injuries with a blend of humor and honesty:
  “[03:07]... my feet are all fucked up.”

• Pain Tolerance: The dialogue touches on overcoming pain and the differing pain thresholds between individuals:
  “[09:19]... You have a high tolerance for pain.”

---

Commentary on Healthcare and Politics

Kosta doesn't shy away from delving into contentious topics like healthcare and politics, offering his unfiltered opinions.

• Healthcare CEO Assassination: The conversation takes a dark turn as Kosta discusses the assassination of healthcare CEO Luigi Mangioni, intertwining it with political critiques:
  “[16:45]... Lives lost because of healthcare co.”

• Trump's Political Strategies: Kosta critiques former President Trump's tactics, particularly his stances on diversity and equity:
  “[29:24]... anti Trump, you're immediately woke.”

---

Experiences in Commercials and Media

Both Kosta and Cross reminisce about their forays into the commercial world, highlighting amusing and surreal experiences.

• Commercials: Kosta shares anecdotes about his appearances in commercials directed by notable figures like Ben Stiller:
  “[41:13]... commercial for Coca Cola... Judd Apatow, Janine Garofalo.”

• E-Meter and Scientology: Kosta humorously critiques his experiences with Scientology’s E-meter and personality tests:
  “[54:05]... They take your answers... it's all designed so that...”

---

Thoughts on Alcohol and Craft Beer

The duo engages in a lighthearted debate over craft beers, particularly IPAs, showcasing their differing tastes and opinions.

• Craft Beer Critique: Kosta vents his frustrations with complicated IPA menus and restrictive tasting policies:
  “[48:50]... Beer street... they refused.”

• Personal Choices: Cross reflects on his own relationship with alcohol, balancing honesty with humor:
  “[67:26]... My relationship with alcohol has been all over the place.”

---

Early Internet Experiences and Media Consumption

Nostalgia seeps in as Kosta recounts his encounters with early internet shock sites and media consumption habits.

• Rotten.com and Faces of Death: Kosta shares unsettling memories of early internet shock sites and graphic content:
  “[55:50]... Faces of Death... Russian soldier decapitation.”

• Impact on Perception: He reflects on how these experiences shaped his view on media and internet content:
  “[61:42]... It's so depraved and awful... I'll never watch this again.”

---

Family and Children's Questions

Closing the episode on a lighter note, Kosta introduces his young daughter's inquisitive mind, fostering a warm and relatable end to their conversation.

• Curious Minds: Kosta's daughter poses a thoughtful question about asteroids, prompting both hosts to engage in playful speculation:
  “[68:05]... Why do asteroids go so fast when they come to Earth, but they're not so fast when they're in space?”

---

Closing Remarks

David Cross wraps up the episode by highlighting production credits and inviting listeners to engage with Headgum's network of podcasts.

---

Notable Quotes

• On Career Transition:
  “[35:08] Michael Kosta: I had very little belief. The belief had expired...”

• On Pain Tolerance:
  “[09:19] Michael Kosta: You have a high tolerance for pain.”

• On Political Strategies:
  “[29:24] Michael Kosta: anti Trump, you're immediately woke.”

• On Early Internet Shock Sites:
  “[55:50] Michael Kosta: Faces of Death...”

• On Family Questions:
  “[68:05] Kosta's Daughter: Why do asteroids go so fast when they come to Earth...”

---

Conclusion

This episode of "Senses Working Overtime" offers a rich tapestry of humor, introspection, and sharp social commentary. Michael Kosta's journey from the tennis courts to the comedy stage serves as both an inspiration and a source of endless anecdotes. Coupled with David Cross's insightful hosting, listeners are treated to an engaging dialogue that balances lighthearted banter with profound insights.

---

Credits:
Edited by Katie Skelton
Engineered by Nicole Lyons
Supervising Producer Emma Foley
Theme Song by Mark Rivers
Special Thanks to Demi Druchin

For more podcasts by Headgum, visit headgum.com or your preferred podcast platform. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts to support the show!

Transcript

[A]

This is a Headgum podcast. Appreciate it.

[B]

Absolutely. Nice to meet you.

[A]

Nice to meet you finally.

[B]

Either way, good.

[A]

This is good.

[B]

You want that one?

[A]

Yeah, this is. This is. Why?

[B]

Well, they've taken away the color option because it used to be this blue one was over here and why'd you do that? I don't know.

[A]

I didn't do it. Why did you say that?

[B]

Well, that's.

[A]

I'm just.

[B]

I just show up throwing people under the bus already. Chris has only been here for.

[A]

I have a sprained ankle, so at some point I might do this. Is that okay?

[B]

What? Levitate your foot?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Do that doesn't damage the table? Yeah. Do you want to take your shoe off?

[A]

I don't think I'm gonna do that.

[B]

Okay. How'd you sprain your ankle?

[A]

I was carrying my daughter to a water park and I fell off a curb. Did you. How'd you sprain your ankle?

[B]

I had sprained the other ankle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was hopping over, so there. So the old house I used to live in, there's a little driveway and about a, I don't know, foot curve, you know, that goes up the driveway and there's like a little lawn and there was a, like, old fashioned mailbox, you know, on a post. And I had been gone for a while and I had pretty severely sprained my ankle. And then I hopped over the thing with my good foot and landed, unbeknownst to me, in the divot that was left by the mailbox post. And then so I had to crawl up to my door like, army. Army, man. Stop.

[A]

Now you have to decide.

[B]

Two sprained ankles. And if you look closely, and I would like.

[A]

If you don't. I would like to see your bare feet during this pot, if that's okay. That's okay. You don't have to. I knew he was going to. Yes. And it.

[B]

Well, have you have a comedy background?

[A]

Yeah, a little bit.

[B]

Yeah. It's not just journalism and tennis, right?

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Okay, so this is. You can.

[A]

I am not doing this to you.

[B]

All right.

[A]

That one looks pretty good, actually.

[B]

Well, this has two broken bones.

[A]

Does it really?

[B]

You see, my foot is a little deformed here. Shoes are compared to the other one. This is also from when I was in Croatia.

[A]

I feel like there's something there that's not supposed to be there.

[B]

That's not supposed to be there. But you can see the severity. See how my foot juts in like that. That's because.

[A]

Leave them out there. This is too good. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, so, yeah, my feet are all fucked up. So this. I broke this bone. Yeah. Right here. And you can see it's protruding because I never got it fixed because it's a foot bone.

[A]

Well, what do you do? I mean, I broke my pinky once.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I went into the podiatrist and they were like, what, there's nothing we can do? We can tape it to the other.

[B]

Exactly. So my wife was getting on me because I.

[A]

Microphone. I feel like this is too far away from me.

[B]

It sounded good.

[A]

All right.

[B]

I'm not going to worry about it. This one, I had two fractures. You can see this is jutting out over here. So my right foot. So I broke this big toe bone. This big. You can see it's like sticking out there.

[A]

Got a little thing there, too.

[B]

Well, that's bone. That's the bone from fusing incorrectly or whatever. But I was kicking sticks with my dog, my old dog Ollie, in a big, huge park, and I. And I would like, kick him hard. Like the sticks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Flying. Get her to run around as much as possible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I wound up, Justin Tucker style, to bring my foot all the way back to kick this stick. Pretty healthy looking stick. And I. I came in hard and it was a root and a tree. And I knew immediately, yeah. Oh, that's broken.

[A]

And then this one stuff is no good.

[B]

Yep. This was. You can see this is protruding there because it didn't. I mean, again, what are you supposed to do but see how my.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Toes are all messed up and then this thing is all curved.

[A]

I would have thought if I just looked at your feet and didn't know whose body they were attached to, I would have said this could be a ballerina.

[B]

Really. You know, a shitty ballerina.

[A]

Shitty ballerina with broken feet. Yeah, they have terrible feet. And it's the one thing when you break. You can't lay off it. What do you. I mean, you just lay and, you know, this was bad for.

[B]

Well, that's why you get married.

[A]

That's why you get married.

[B]

You know, I put my foot up.

[A]

For a day, it starts to feel better, and then you got to go about your life.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And you're a good partner, as you should.

[B]

You'd be an excellent pioneer, Michael.

[A]

And my wife was like, I'll help you for a day and a half. And then that's kind of now that's. Let's go grown up. So here we are.

[B]

So that's why I'm the same. I'm like, Your. I'm in your wife's camp. Yeah, my. My wife and I are from very different worlds in that aspect. And I'm very much the walk it off generation. Like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, is there anything worse than.

[A]

When your partner gets sick? I feel like when my kid gets sick, I love her more, but when my wife gets sick, it's like, I don't want anything to do with this person. Is that a bad. Am I a bad person?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Well, you're a bad husband, bad partner. I don't think you're a bad person per se, but. How old is your daughter?

[A]

My daughter is almost five.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And almost two. So not the same.

[B]

She goes back and forth. She found a tear in the time fabric.

[A]

That's correct. And that's what.

[B]

So she's got a little thing going.

[A]

Parent is, are we dealing with a five year old? Are we dealing with a two year old?

[B]

So it's like a Freaky Friday thing. The two year old got switched with a five year old's body.

[A]

That's why we named her.

[B]

And vice versa. And what a boring movie that would be.

[A]

And that's why we named her that.

[B]

Vice versa or Freaky Friday? Freaky Friday. Okay.

[A]

But I think it's commendable that when your wife is sick, you're. Sounds like a knight in shining armor.

[B]

I'm not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the she. She and her mom is the same way. She really feels fulfilled and finds validation in caring for other people. Or not other people, but me, when I'm. Because I think it meshes well. Because I really don't like being taken care of. You know what I mean? I mean, we just had completely different backgrounds, different moms, different situations growing up. And I, I'm the, you know, tough it out. I don't go to the doctor unless it's, you know. But she will.

[A]

It's evident.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But again, what are you supposed to do?

[A]

I don't. I know they don't.

[B]

You're not supposed to. There's nothing to do. If you look up. If you Google like, oh, I broke my pinky toe, you know, my foot. Well, I guess toe is foot. Yes. So that was. All right.

[A]

It's getting rough.

[B]

So it'll tell you. Just tape it together, put some gauze there. And that's what I did. And I saved myself, what, $5,000 going to a fucking American foot doctor to go, you should put some tape on that.

[A]

I wonder if podiatry is just where they put all the people that failed. It's Possible.

[B]

I mean, I feel like I could be a podiatrist.

[A]

A toe. The toe. There's not a lot you do with toes.

[B]

That's what I'm talking about. So if you're moldiest toes, you're making a ton of money to sit back in some cushy office and go, yeah, there's not a whole lot I can do with that. You can put some gauze in between there and tape it up. Get some.

[A]

You do have to look at people's feet.

[B]

That's. That's.

[A]

I can do that even on this podcast.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Which is so good.

[B]

My feet are ugly. I mean, they've gotten uglier over time, and I have to get a special. Oh, this is kind of interesting.

[A]

Those. Those are two solid.

[B]

Yeah, that's some gelatinous liquid in there that, you know, they don't have to. They're like, oh, we can take it out. You don't need it. It doesn't do anything.

[A]

I had a man yesterday, and I don't say those lightly.

[B]

Oh, congratulations.

[A]

And yesterday.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

Put his hands on my ankles and move them, the bones and the blood around. And it felt really nice, David. And it helped my sprain.

[B]

I would hope so.

[A]

Otherwise, he was a athletic trainer. He was a physio, so he said. But I will say I was surprised with the sprain that moving it and rubbing it made it feel better.

[B]

Did it hurt at the time when he was doing it?

[A]

It was like, right on the edge.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Right on the edge.

[B]

You have a high tolerance for pain.

[A]

I don't. I don't know. I don't know about that. How do I know that?

[B]

Well, by being in the company of other people who don't have a high tolerance for pain.

[A]

I would say then that I think I'm medium.

[B]

Yeah, sounds about right.

[A]

Sounds about right for.

[B]

I know an awesome lady who. She's Irish. This'll give you some insight. Who had dental work done without any Novocaine or any kind of numbing agent at all?

[A]

I would have thought I was tough until I had a root canal, which is bad.

[B]

That's excruciating.

[A]

But why would this Irish person do this? This Irish woman?

[B]

I don't remember. I'll have to ask her next time. I see it was. She's tough, you know? Yeah. Yeah, but that's.

[A]

I did a piece for the Daily show where we went to Yuma, Arizona, and 6,000Americans a day cross the border to Mexico for dental care.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For a lot of reasons. So then we went to this dental office in Mexico, and guess what? It was nicer than anything I've been to here.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

It was unbelievable.

[B]

Oh, you don't have to tell me. I lived in London for years and I've had, you know, I had a. Emergency root canal. And I'll spare you all the horrific details, but it was extremely painful. And it was. Emergency being the key word, which I didn't know until the dentist. I was getting a cleaning, and that dental technician. I was in such pain. They. The dentist wasn't there, so she went down the street and then around the corner. It was. This area is like, in. What is it? Doesn't matter. It's a. It's. If I said the name right, but Piccadilly Square. No, no, it's not Piccadilly Square, but.

[A]

The one, the Wimbledon.

[B]

No, no, I'll stop. It was kind of a fancier part of town, and there just happened to be a lot of dentists and doctors in this. In this area. And she went around the corner, down the street, around the corner, came back with this guy.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Who was in the middle of another patient and said, you, like, looked at X rays, confirmed what the technician thought. He's like, you have to have an emergency root canal right now. Got somebody to fill in for because he was just doing a routine thing and gave me.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Right then and there, which is, you know, it's a. It's a long process. It's a. You got to extract. It's Novocaine, you got to do the root canal, then you got to fit for a temporary crown, then you got to get the crown, etc. Etc. And I got whatever it was, like Motrin or ibuprofen or some other shit that they prescribed me and gave me a bottle of. To leave with. After all that, I. My bill was £68.

[A]

It's wild.

[B]

So I got everything done except for the permanent crown. I got back to la. I happened to be there.

[A]

I'm excited to hear that. That's the same thing as here, because I always thought that Come back later for the crown thing was bullshit.

[B]

Well, no, they got to fit it.

[A]

I know. I always thought it was. I had a feeling it was bullshit.

[B]

Are you a conspiracy theory?

[A]

Absolutely. When it comes to dentistry, I believe so.

[B]

But beyond dentistry, like, I wouldn't necessarily call myself chemtrails.

[A]

No, I wouldn't necessarily think. I know. It'd be more interesting if I was.

[B]

Well, I just think if you think that something that. To me, I don't question at all. Just because of the obvious. They have to fit it into your mouth.

[A]

It makes sense.

[B]

They can't just have a bunch of crowns willy nilly on the shelf and they go this one and then shove it in there.

[A]

Get him a six.

[B]

Get a. Yeah, I don't think it works that way. Yeah. Yeah. So I've never questioned it. But. But when I did, I got. Everything was taken care of except for the permanent crown which was sent to la where I was going for like a two week Christmas vacation with my. My then girlfriend, now wife, their family and stuff. And she's like, you got to go see my. See my dentist, orthodontist, whatever, and you know, basically mile and a half way a couple miles away, Santa Monica. Go there, get the crown, put in all that stuff. $5,000. 68 pounds for an emergency root canal.

[A]

How did you process the Luigi Mangione stuff? Because it was such a. Health care is such a triggering subject, but then so is cold blooded murder. How did David Cross process that?

[B]

I didn't have.

[A]

Am I allowed to ask him questions on here?

[B]

Yeah, of course. I have a question for Chris. Could you.

[A]

Could you press record, please?

[B]

I was. I don't know what your AI capabilities are, but could you redo my feet in post? Okay. Just put bunny slippers on them or something. Yeah, okay. No, could I get a. Could you get me a cold brew with oat milk? My throat is all. I had to postpone this. Postpone this right now. No, I had to. We were supposed to do it on Friday. I think.

[A]

I think that's right.

[B]

I was not yet over this sickness and I'm doing this play starting tomorrow. Lots of talking and lots.

[A]

How did you do that with the voice?

[B]

Oat milk, please. And would you like anything?

[A]

I'm great. I heard my Lacroix.

[B]

I didn't have time. I apologize.

[A]

The voice is. Is something that is important to take care of.

[B]

Yeah. After I finish this podcast. I'm not talking for the rest. I mean, I have a zoom call at 4. Yeah, after that I'm not talking.

[A]

I am gonna. I'll do some talking after this.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I've decided I'm not gonna.

[B]

Will you come back to my place and I will write things down? You can talk to my wife.

[A]

Yeah, but how will you manage the voice in a play? That's.

[B]

That's tricky. There's. There was like a. They gave us a. Like a instructional pamphlet as it were. Several pages of. From a voice lady and telling you how for theater. Yeah.

[A]

That's interesting. My friend who's a musician says, sugar free gum. I don't know.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I, I'm, I'm like old school. Tea and honey and lemon.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Person. I'm gonna take this off, guys.

[A]

Yeah. One by one, One by one. It's all coming off.

[B]

Just shirt out. Shirt happens. Instead of shit happens. Shirt happens is what happens when Chris leaves. Shit happens. Hey, try adding an R. Shirt happens. That's fun.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

What are we talking about? The fee.

[A]

We were talking about Luigi Mangioni, which is a sad topic, but, you know, I was kind of curious how you process.

[B]

Okay. I, I felt zero sympathy for the guy who was killed. I have things.

[A]

It'd be fun to edit that and not know like, what he's talking. You know, it's just kind of like that would be some AI shit. Okay, you felt, you felt zero sympathy for the healthcare CEO?

[B]

Yes, I feel sympathy for his family, but I mean, I thought it was really smart. I don't know if you want, if Luigi wants to drive his message home, is willing to sacrifice himself to kill somebody else. You know, I thought it was smart for him to put their very words on the bullet.

[A]

I heard one of the bullets said MichaelCosta.com on him, which I thought was interesting because if. Why was he trying to promote my stand updates? I don't know if that's just what I heard.

[B]

Yeah, but that bullet wasn't used. That was the one he was gonna self inflict.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Right. Saving the Michael Costa. Do you want to plug your dates? Go ahead.

[A]

Oh, no, I don't need to. Really.

[B]

Everything sold out.

[A]

I already did it on the bullets. You can go to Michael Casa.com for my stand updates. But he seemed so smart with the bullets that, that blew me away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have anybody seen a picture of that? I'd like to see what that actually looked like. Was it like. Or he seemed so smart with the bullets, but then also he seemed so dumb. Like he got caught with the gun in his bag and all that stuff.

[B]

I'm not saying he's a smart guy. I think that particular thing to get to drive your message home, people talking about it to say, you know, the things he said in his manifesto. I mean, I understand. I don't condone murder, but I understand for sure being that upset. I mean, the countless thousands and thousands of people who've died unnecessarily because of specific actions or inactions that the US healthcare co. I mean, yeah, I, I, it was that you know who should have shot him?

[A]

Who?

[B]

Trump. Then he wouldn't go to jail.

[A]

Oh, because he would have pardoned himself. Because he has immunity.

[B]

Because he has immunity. And he said back in 16, like, I could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and I wouldn't go to jail. And he was right.

[A]

Why would Ivanka Trump need to shoot the healthcare CEO? Is that who you meant?

[B]

Barron.

[A]

Barron Trump. Is he free game now? We can make fun of Barron now.

[B]

Fuck. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I remember. You know, I mean, nobody has double standards quite like Republicans. But I remember the, or the Republican Party. Well, Christians are probably worse. But the constant making fun of Chelsea Clinton.

[A]

Oh, my God, you're right.

[B]

I was just Jamie Carter. I was a kid.

[A]

I was wondering what you were gonna say.

[B]

And I remember Chelsea Clinton.

[A]

It was, she was a kid.

[B]

I was not okay with preteen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because they're double standard. They're hypocrites. They're full of shit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's their thing.

[A]

You bring up an interesting point about the escalation of Trump's crimes. If he could, if he would commit murder. What? What would happen? That would be wild.

[B]

That would be wild. I don't think it covers murder, but he would, I think he would get away with it because people would want him to get away with it. So they would construct, they'd find some defense to shoehorn into the, you know, self defense or. Yeah, you know, stand your ground. One of those things.

[A]

I thought, I hoped Luigi's manifesto was a little more put together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because the bullet thing was very powerful. Nice imagery there, Luigi. And whatever team helped you come up with this, whatever marketing firm helped him with that.

[B]

I think it was idpr.

[A]

I think you're right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it really unraveled from there.

[B]

And who's your PR company?

[A]

I don't have a PR company. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, right. Hence the Michael Costa.com anywhere. But you have a bunch of bullets out there, right?

[A]

I got a bunch of bullets and I'm just. You hope for the best.

[B]

Yeah. What's the caliber?

[A]

I don't know what Luigi used. Was it a 9 millimeter? Is that the caliber?

[B]

I think it was 108.

[A]

Do you know about calibers?

[B]

I, I, I know about calipers. And that's off by one letter. So I know John Calipari, right?

[A]

Oh, yeah. Yes.

[B]

The basketball.

[A]

Sure. The coat, the head coach.

[B]

Head coach, Yep.

[A]

You are from the South.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Is that right?

[B]

Is that a compliment?

[A]

Well, I don't know. I'm asking because I would Think I. I would guess people from the south know more about guns than people from the North. I don't know if that's true.

[B]

I am from the South. Yes. Guns were not really a big, big thing. Big issue. I mean, it wasn't a big deal. It was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also like the Confederate flag.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was everywhere. And, and it, I never, like, it didn't register with me. Like I kind of got it, but I. I kind of got why some people were upset. But also it seemed like whatever, you know, now I. That as an adult, I get it. I understand completely. But there was a. So guns were. I mean, and you know, gun proliferation is relatively new in this country. It's not. It was not until what, like 30 years ago. Not even maybe.

[A]

What do you mean by pro. You mean everyone's.

[B]

Everyone having guns was not a thing. Right. Nobody gave a.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If you wanted a gun, you went and got a gun. And it was not a thing until like the. I want to say like late 90s, mid. Mid late 90s.

[A]

What changed? That was. There.

[B]

Was there the NRA. It was, it was marketing, you know, this idea that. I think it was twofold. It was American and manly. And it was the Democrats want to take your guns away. Which of course never happened.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But they did want regulations. And so the nra, you know, said it was a. It was a fundraising tool. Very effective. And they sold a shitload of guns. And every time anything happens, they sell more guns.

[A]

Obama gets elected a lot more guns.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

That's scary and sad in a lot of ways. I recently reappeared.

[B]

Where are you from?

[A]

I'm sorry, I'm from Michigan originally.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Ann Arbor, Michigan.

[B]

I love Ann Arbor. I love Ann Arbor.

[A]

You like Ann Arbor?

[B]

I do, yeah.

[A]

I think it's a great city.

[B]

You don't like it?

[A]

No, I do like it very much.

[B]

I have not spent. I mean, I've been there probably seven, eight, nine times doing shows, but I always have.

[A]

Where were you performing? Michigan Theater, maybe.

[B]

Whatever. The big theater on the street.

[A]

Hill Auditorium. Yeah.

[B]

No, no, it was the. Whatever, the theater.

[A]

I think that's Michigan Theater. You've David Cross feels perfect for Ann Arbor. And I mean that as like a compliment. It is.

[B]

It's the most literate city. Yes, it's very literate.

[A]

Yeah, it's very literate.

[B]

I mean, I mean, I literally mean it has been whoever decides these things that it is the most well read, literate city in America.

[A]

One of our friends growing up. Last name Borders. Ever heard of Borders Bookshop? Okay, so that's literate. That's literacy. That's literature.

[B]

Oh, it's capitalism. It's capitalism.

[A]

It's a retail shop.

[B]

He's selling my words for a profit.

[A]

But a great city. I mean, I grew up. There's comedy coming through all the time. You know, it's like a Madison or.

[B]

I love Madison, too.

[A]

Yeah. I actually saw you for 10 minutes in Madison at the theater.

[B]

Then you left.

[A]

Well, I was at the Comedy on State. I had to do my show.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I had 10 minutes to come see who was at Orpheum, which was you.

[B]

When was this?

[A]

Eight years ago. Okay, I forget. I can't even tell you.

[B]

Orpheum is the theater on the Strip on State. Right. Okay.

[A]

I can't tell you even what. What you were talking about. To be honest with you, I have no idea. Yeah, I don't know either. I mean, but I wanted to see the theater, and then you were performing, so I quickly popped in, clapped for you, and then had you on my show. But Ann Arbor is a great town in the sense that it valued education, learning, arts, but it was small enough that you could try stuff and fail, and open mics were there, you know, it was great.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, there are a few more comforting, comfortable places for me to be in than a college town. They tend to be liberal, progressive, cultural, and they're not too big, really good bars, usually. Have you been to Missoula, Montana?

[A]

I flew into Missoula and then had to drive four hours another direction. But is Missoula a good spot?

[B]

Great. Yeah. Not quite as. I don't think as big as Ann Arbor or Madison. Certainly not as big as Madison, but it's a awesome little college town.

[A]

There's so many great little towns, and it makes me so appreciative that we have them.

[B]

Yeah. Because you forget when you go from Athens, Georgia.

[A]

Athens is great.

[B]

Athens is great. I'm doing. I'm taping my special there at the 40 watt. I don't think it's been announced officially.

[A]

Well, put it on a bowler.

[B]

I'll put it on Bullet.

[A]

When is that happening?

[B]

It'll be May 31st. Two shows at the 40 watt.

[A]

That's exciting.

[B]

Which is a place that I've played over the decades, numerous times, going way back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And awesome room. I love Athens. And.

[A]

And the hour's ready. It's.

[B]

Oh, it's way ready.

[A]

It's piping hot.

[B]

This is too. This is the latest I've ever shot something. I mean, I started touring in September.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Michael.

[A]

Michael. That's. This stuff is.

[B]

My set is evolving.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And we'll see if it changes if Trump is elected. We'll see what happens. There's some new material coming out, man. It's a good thing that they got rid of those DEI hires. Good Lord. You know, there wasn't one error fatality in Biden's four years in office. Not one. And then Trump got rid of everybody.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And then there's two immediately back to back. Did you hear. Did you see what he said about. Besides blaming black people, gay people and women? He said he's so dumb. The thing about. I mean, you know, the helicopter could have gone, you know, could have gone up or down or sideways. Could have gone sideways. Could have gone up or down, like. Yeah, he was.

[A]

He was live tweeting the crash.

[B]

The pilot. Yeah, well, the pilot was.

[A]

Yeah. No, the. Trump was like, when it happened, he said he. This is terrible what happened. And it was like, you know, he's just not good at the presidenting stuff. He is a good campaigner.

[B]

He's a great campaigner. He's a great fighter. And he.

[A]

But, man, clearly, take a deep breath and let this thing evolve for a second.

[B]

No, that's not his style.

[A]

But what do you think about this? What do you think about his strategy that maybe he just tries to flood the zone with bullshit so we media, liberals, whatever, bite DEI and then that becomes its own storm.

[B]

Yeah, well, it's very effective.

[A]

It's very effective.

[B]

I believe page 42 of the art of the Deal.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

It's right in there.

[A]

And if you're anti Trump, you're immediately woke. Right. That's another one of his strategies.

[B]

That's fine. I'll take it. I'm woke. I'm progressive, I'm liberal. I believe in equality. I believe in fairness. Fairness. I believe in the law.

[A]

That's a good way to combat saying.

[B]

I believe in sharing. I know that's going to be illegal soon, but I believe in sharing. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. The DEI stuff is wild, how they've weaponized it, the executive. So that crash happened and then he.

[B]

It was because of black women or a gay black woman. Oh, my God. Are you kidding me?

[A]

Is that what he said?

[B]

Well, he said it was because of dei, so.

[A]

Because the FAA had been hiring.

[B]

Yeah. You don't have to make too much. The connection is literally from here to there.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know. Right. Oh, so you mean diversity, equity and inclusion, which means, you know, do anybody, you know, somebody screwed up. That was affirmative Action. Somebody, a black person was in there. Could have been a woman, could have been a black person, could have been a Mexican.

[A]

I got a book coming out.

[B]

You got a book coming out?

[A]

Yep. Called, called Lucky Loser.

[B]

Lucky Loser.

[A]

And it's my story. I wanted to be a professional tennis player. I was a professional tennis player, but I didn't make it.

[B]

Meaning you didn't crack the top hundred or however that works.

[A]

I cracked the top hundred. My career high ranking was 864 in the world in tennis. Thank you.

[B]

Who was just.

[A]

That's a great question.

[B]

Behind you.

[A]

That's a great question. Like who was 865 but was 863 places away from being the greatest tennis.

[B]

Player in the world?

[A]

David. That's big. That's big. And then upon failing at tennis, failing, however you want to describe that, I moved over to comedy and here we are.

[B]

I mean that's an off told tale that happens a lot, very frequent. So what is that? I'm sure it's all in the book, but what?

[A]

I should have brought a book. I didn't even have one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe we can find an image somewhere on the Internet.

[B]

Okay. For the listeners.

[A]

For the listeners, yeah.

[B]

So what is. So how do you get ranked first of all?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And who's doing this? Is just some dude somewhere.

[A]

I mean it's a computer, but that's a great question. Like where is the computer? Where is the master computer? Yeah, that's my question.

[B]

Probably in a Bond villains, the tennis, the tennis computer.

[A]

You get points. I mean it's very.

[B]

When you really sort of like boxing, I guess you, you're. Yeah, you're doing more ranked fights that are, you know, legitimized or, and that's not the right word, but you know like sanctioned or whatever.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Okay, so you're playing. So you start as an amateur.

[A]

You start as an amateur. You can enter these open tournaments, much like signing up for an open mic.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Anybody can enter.

[B]

You could actually sign an mc, there's.

[A]

An emcee, you get paid in drink tickets and mozzarella and it's pay to play. Pay to play. You have to get five people to come watch the match. And if you qualify by beating certain players, you get to the main draw of these tournaments. And then if you win a round, you get one point. One point would, would. When I was playing, one point would get you a 1600 ranking.

[B]

When you say one round, is that just one round to tennis?

[A]

Yeah, one round of tennis. So it's a round of 32 draw, you win. You're in the round of 16, so.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

Got it. That would get you one point and then you'd be tied with 1000 people at 1600 in the world. So my career high was 864. I had like 13 of these points. If you win the US Open, David, and I suspect you will this year, with the year you're having, you would get a thousand points.

[B]

Wow. So what would I do with all those points? You. Can you trade them in at the end for like, like an Xbox?

[A]

Yeah, there's like a big gift wall.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That's what the year end tournament is. All the players want to go to that because that's when you cash in.

[B]

Yeah, I like. I mean, I know I don't want to spend them all on a bunch of dumb shit, but I love the little sticky like this hands.

[A]

Yeah, they got.

[B]

And you throw them up against the window and it kind of sticks and then slowly kind of.

[A]

Yeah, they got down. I will say that.

[B]

How many points are those?

[A]

I. That's a good question. I don't know. But you do have to.

[B]

Chris, will you look it up?

[A]

Yeah, look, you do have to use all your points for the year. You can't.

[B]

It's like a frequent flyer.

[A]

Yeah, Points. Points don't carry over.

[B]

Right. And then when did you. And, and I'm being serious here. Tell me the, the. Was it an epiphany, A revelation, an idea? Like, I'm not going to make it as a tennis player and I need to, you know, confront this. That's a thing. It's serious. I don't have that thing in me that is gonna push and I should cut bait and put all my eggs in a comedy basket.

[A]

A comedy basket. Comedic eggs in a comedy. Yeah. There was a moment coming out of that moment. It wasn't, oh, I should focus on comedy.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, that would be insane.

[B]

I'm imagining it was kind of a thought that you suppressed in a sinking reality.

[A]

Now we're getting somewhere.

[B]

Yeah. And a sinking reality, like. And when did that moment happen? The definitive moment.

[A]

Thank you for that question. That's an intelligent question.

[B]

I'm smarty.

[A]

But it was also helpful that you said, I'm. I'm being serious now.

[B]

Yes. Well, sometimes I have to say that.

[A]

I do actually remember in the book there's a chapter or a portion called inventory. I took an inventory of my life as a tennis player, and I remember writing down on a piece of paper in my parents.

[B]

I'm sorry, this is post this is. As you're writing the book, you took.

[A]

An inventory, or this inventory is in the book. But also this happened in real life.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

When I was losing a lot of tennis and I flew home from this match in South Korea on Jeju island, where I was up 5:1 on the third. You can relate to this. And I was up two breaks. I had match points and I still lost.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I was. There was a shuttle. This is the kind of tournaments I was playing.

[B]

And I'm sorry I keep interrupting, but did you have a coach? Was this your.

[A]

No, I did not have a coach because I didn't have enough money for a coach. You have to pay for yourself. And I. I ended up selling. Now, I'm serious, too, when I say this. I sold shares to investors of Michael Kosta's potential future earnings.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Golfers do this too, if you're familiar. So I had a chunk of money that people had invested in me, and I was running out of money. I had lost this match in South Korea. There was one shuttle to go back to the hotel, and this is how. This is how small the tournaments I was playing in. The only other person in the shuttle was the guy just beat me. That just beat me. I don't want to say.

[B]

What nationality was he?

[A]

I think he was Korean. But he could have been of different Asian country because I'm not that good at knowing.

[B]

So he could have been Lao.

[A]

He could have been Lao. He could have been Cambodian. He could have been. I know.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Exactly. So I didn't want to sit next to the guy that just beat me. So I walked back to the hotel and I walked through this Korean fishing village and there was all of these very unfamiliar fish, frogs, species of things, and they're all laying there dead. And I looked at them and I thought, that's how I feel. That's how I feel.

[B]

Did you talk to them?

[A]

I talked to them a little bit. I actually stopped at Internet Cafe and emailed my brother, which is neither here nor there.

[B]

Then why did you bring it up?

[A]

He's a big fan of yours.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you want to cut this part out of the podcast?

[A]

When. When Chris is. Is it Krins or Chris or Vince Krin's?

[B]

Who's Vince Prince?

[A]

Who the hell is Vince?

[B]

Vince McMahon. He's the head of WWF, the World Wildlife Foundation. He shares the same name when that changed. Yeah.

[A]

That was wild. Yeah. Let's get back to me real quick. So I fly back to the United States and I make an inventory of What I had. I had a pretty good ranking. I was in the eight hundreds. I had no money left. I had maybe $1,000 left. And this was the big one. This is what you were getting at, David? I had very little belief. The belief had expired. And I had seen players 10 years older than me that hadn't quit when they were where I was, and I really didn't want to be them.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And I'm sure you've done this in comedy, where you've seen people or on projects, and you go, just make sure, Lord almighty, that I don't make the decisions to be in that situation. And I said, I need to stop. I don't have the belief to keep doing this.

[B]

And did you have to go to your investors and say, I did. And how did that conversation go?

[A]

I was very nervous about that. And you know what most of them said? They said, do you want more money? If you believe you can do it, we'll support you. And I said, yes. I took their money, and then I. I fled. And that's.

[B]

Are you wanted?

[A]

I'm a wanted man. No, they were very. Some of them were like, hey, where's our money? And I had given them money over the years a little bit, but they lost money. Everybody lost money. Okay? I'm here to admit it. I'm here to finally come out and say it. You guys lost money.

[B]

Well, why don't you give them some of your Daily show money? Well, I know it's not a lot. I know it's favor nation scale. Plus 10.

[A]

Yes. Plus 10.

[B]

Yeah. For those of you at home or listening, plus 10 is when they pay. They give you. You get scale, which is the lowest possible money you can earn. Favored nations means everybody gets that. And then plus scale plus 10 means they pay your manager's commission for you.

[A]

I actually needed that explanation. I had forgotten that.

[B]

Did you not know?

[A]

Well, I knew that happens in commercials, but it doesn't happen on the Daily Show. I'll tell you that. I get commissioned. I get commissions.

[B]

No, you get commission. But they're not paying for it. It's not scale plus 10.

[A]

The commercials I've done, that's what I've.

[B]

Like the scale plus 10.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[B]

But what commercials have you done? Oh, give me a taste. Give me a little taste of Michael.

[A]

Costa Tracphone, the nation's best 4G LTE cellular network.

[B]

Which one?

[A]

Always selling Track Phone.

[B]

Track Phone? Never heard of it.

[A]

Track Phone. That's. That was part of the strategy behind Me saying yes to that. I was like, I don't think really anybody knows about this.

[B]

Yeah. Was it on camera or just voice?

[A]

It was on camera and voice. Yeah. What else have I done? I did a Coors Light thing.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And then they.

[B]

Silver Bullet, the train that wrecks everything.

[A]

They sent me afterwards, as a thank you, even though they pay you, they sent me this refrigerator that also has a button on it.

[B]

Yes. I've seen this. Yeah. Nice.

[A]

I was living in, like, Chelsea with, like, this much space. So what do you do with that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have you done. You've done commercials?

[B]

I have. Yeah, I've done it.

[A]

What have I seen? What commercials of yours have I seen?

[B]

I did. A long, long, long time ago, I did a commercial for aol.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It was the first thing I ever did, actually.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Stiller directed it, then I did a Coke.

[A]

Ben Stiller directed it.

[B]

Yeah. That's why. And then I did a commercial for Coca Cola, which was me, I believe, Judd Apatow, Janine Garofalo, and somebody else might have done voices. And it's like on Close on a Hubcap that's moving, and it's us talking, and that's all I remember.

[A]

What's the. What was the product?

[B]

Coca Cola.

[A]

A Coca Cola.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And those are great comedy casts in the commercial.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I wasn't. So. I wasn't.

[B]

It was all Stiller show stuff back in the. Back in the day. Because I was a writer on that. Okay. And I don't know if I've done any other commercials besides the things on. You know, I read some stuff on the podcast, which you don't patronize, actually. What is the. The Chris, what is it? AG1. AG1. AG1. I use that. I use that product I got.

[A]

What is AG1?

[B]

It's like a vitamin drink and powder you make, and I quite like it. I can't say it's had any effect, either negative or positive, but I like it. And it's. If nothing else, it's, you know. Psychosomatic. No, not psychosomatic. That's not the word.

[A]

It's placebo.

[B]

Yeah, Placebo.

[A]

Whatever that is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It is crazy that I do a lot of vitamin stuff, too. And it is crazy that there's really no way to ever measure if anything's happening.

[B]

No.

[A]

But we all.

[B]

I. And I drink a lot, so.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I.

[A]

Alcohol.

[B]

Yeah. And, like, that's part of why my throat is a little rest, because I stopped drinking when I was sick and. And before this Broadway show, and then I went to they, they do this kind of, you know, party because it's a rotating cast when one cast leaves.

[A]

I was listening to you and Nick talk about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sounded interesting.

[B]

Yeah. So I went last night and, and you know, I had, I had a full week of not drinking, which is pretty long for me, and, and then I drank kind of normal last night because I'm over the sickness, but my throat is, you know, whatever, and I fucking woke up hammered.

[A]

Doesn't that suck?

[B]

Just because I had a week off.

[A]

What were you having?

[B]

I had.

[A]

What do you normally have?

[B]

Like, what is a. I had two pints of Guinness and then a shot of Tullamore Dew.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Then I had an ipa.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then I had. So I had those at my local in Brooklyn and then I went to meet my wife and a friend of ours who's in town, had one drink with them, then made my way to the party and had probably, I don't know, three beers. Three more beers. IPAs. That's the problem.

[A]

IPAs. Can we stop with all this every day?

[B]

I love a juicy ipa. Do you? I do. Do you? Yes, I do.

[A]

Yes, you do.

[B]

I do.

[A]

I don't. And I'm proud to admit it. I know.

[B]

And I'm not even proud to admit it.

[A]

Well, it took me a while to get there.

[B]

You know what? I don't like turkey chili. And I'm proud of that. What the fuck is a weird thing to be proud of that you don't like ipa? And I'll say it out loud, God damn it.

[A]

I'm not proud in the sense that I'm contradicting what you like. I'm proud that I have reached the point of self reflection, that I can be honest with myself, that I don't care for those and I'm not going to let myself keep drinking, drinking them, God damn it. You know, but you can have one day.

[B]

Wait, so you, how old are you?

[A]

45.

[B]

So as a 45 year old, until recently, you succumbed to peer pressure about a beer?

[A]

That's a great question. And I would say commercial pressure. Everywhere I go, there's nine IPAs and there's one like Shitty Pilsner. And I would just do the one that had the cool tap and the fun name with the frog on it, you know, and it's always a fun.

[B]

Even knowing you didn't care for it.

[A]

Well, I, you know, I just kept. I, I, oh, as if you can't tell me it hasn't taken you some time to learn something. You do or don't.

[B]

Like the second mark.

[A]

I know this is, this is where it gets confronted.

[B]

I know I don't like something. I stop.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Having it. I stopped paying for it, I stopped buying it, I stopped imbibing it. I don't. Why would I.

[A]

All I can say to that, I.

[B]

Think that's weird that you. That as an adult.

[A]

Yes, yes. All I can say is I think you're a better man than me.

[B]

Probably.

[A]

It took me a while to realize that what my problems in life I attributed to was, was the hazy ipa.

[B]

You know, I can't believe I invite this failed tennis player to come into my podcast and give me shit about drinking ipa.

[A]

Well, let me tell you another thing about that. I'm not done.

[B]

Oh, right.

[A]

The. The beauty of a poured IPA. Excuse me, the now run IPAs. The beauty of a poured IPA also lured me in. I love the way a nice IPA looks with sunlight.

[B]

I will say this, and maybe you'll. This will mitigate some of the harshness that you've judged me for, but I don't like the hoppy, piney, bitter IPAs. I really like the juicy, hazy, somewhat fruity ones. I don't like fruit beer, but I like a hazy, juicy ipa.

[A]

And you only had one bitter ipa. And when you made your decision.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I know, I'll ask, I'll go. Because buying get going to a bar these days, I'd say in the last, what, 10 years? I'm gonna say with all the craft beer stuff is a pain in the ass. And I don't know what the fuck. Hints of leather. I don't know what the fuck that means. So I will ask questions and the question I ask is, what kind of IPAs do you have? Do you have a juicy one? And then they'll say, well, we have this and this and this. And I'll say, is it bitter, hoppy pint? And they'll say, this one is. I'll go, okay, I don't like that.

[A]

And they say, sir, you're literally fitting in every stereotype of Brooklyn local right now as we do this, I guess.

[B]

Meaning who knows what they want and doesn't suffer years of wrong decision. Yeah, I guess that's Brooklyn for you. But I it so there and then often, almost, you know, 100 of the time, actually, there's one place I won't do it, and I'm going to talk about them in a second. But they'll quite often go, yeah, you want to taste. And go, yeah. And they pour you a little bit and you Go, this isn't quite my style. Or you go, yeah, great, thank you. Of that. So that happens a lot all over the country. Do you let me finish? There's one shitty fucking place called Beer street, and it's on Vanderbilt. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[A]

I've been, I've been to Beer street.

[B]

Okay? So I went there and they've got, what, 36 different beer names, and they're all like, cutie names.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like, you know, a description that means nothing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, and I asked them about the IPAs, and they're like, oh, we have this and this and this. I wouldn't call this juicy, but it's closer in that style. And I said, okay, can I get a little taste? Like, ah, we don't do that.

[A]

Oh, my.

[B]

I'm like, what do you mean you don't do that? I mean, everyone, how it's this much, It's a thimbleful to see if you want it. Like, just so I know I don't want to waste. You're going to charge me nine bucks for this craft beer and I don't want to. And they, they refused. They said, we don't do that. That's our policy. We don't like a little taste. And I'm like, well, you and I really got into it because I think that's just ridiculous. But, okay, so be it. So I left and I went back there several months later, knowing their policy, different guy behind the counter. I was a little buzzed and, and some people there, and I went in there just to be shitty and just, just to go, oh, can I have a taste? No. And I go, what can. What kind of policy is that? Now I'm not gonna, you know, whatever, right. But fuck them just to rall it up.

[A]

It's not a good name. Beer Street.

[B]

No. And fuck that place. I mean, seriously, I, I, what, What a, What a ridiculous. That's our policy. We don't give you.

[A]

I'm surprised, actually. I'm surprised. That's surprised.

[B]

Because, I mean, all over the country, literally. And they'll offer it. You don't have to ask. They'll go, oh, you want a little taste? Great. Yeah, this is great. Thank you. Or, oh, I'll get the other one. And what did it cost them? And now I'm going to sit in that bar, I'm going to have several beers. I drink a lot. I'm going to have friends with me. They drink a lot. I'm going to tip. And all it cost them was A thimbleful, maybe two tablespoons worth of beer.

[A]

I do think that's, in the wine world, that's par for the course.

[B]

Yeah. Well, it should be.

[A]

Yeah. And they even have to open a bottle, whereas the beer world is already tapped.

[B]

Yep. Yeah, that's how it is with like, lobster rolls and, you know. Can I have a lot? I don't know. How does it taste? Let me give you a sample.

[A]

Turkey Reubens. I know that's a turkey. Turkey Reuben. Omaha.

[B]

Do you know that the Reuben was created originally in Omaha, Nebraska?

[A]

I did not know that.

[B]

That's true. How about that? You wouldn't think it, would you?

[A]

I would not think that because Omaha.

[B]

Never really occurs to you in any sense. In any. Throughout your day. You never think about Omaha. But next time you have a Reuben, see a Reuben, smell a Reuben. Omaha, Nebraska.

[A]

I think there's a poker, a variation of poker called Omaha.

[B]

There is, is there? Yeah.

[A]

Is it, is it Texas hold'em?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Omaha.

[B]

No, I think it's Omaha is, is.

[A]

The, is the game.

[B]

Yeah. And it's, it's Texas hold them. You know, you know how that's played? You get your cards. Yeah. You have to flop. And then Omaha, you don't get cards. You get Rubens.

[A]

That's how.

[B]

So everybody gets five Rubens.

[A]

And you bet Reuben.

[B]

And you bet Reuben.

[A]

God. Are you. If you looked at my Internet history, and I'm not, I'm not offering that, but you would see that. I googled yesterday. Ibus. You know how the beer menus will sometimes give you that ibu?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I don't know what even, I don't even. It's the bitter units.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[A]

Have you ever seen those?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Some of the beer menus at some of these breweries will say, like, this has a IBU of. And it gives you an indication. Yeah. And so I've learned this in my.

[B]

I know abv. That's important to me because I don't want to get too fucked up. Is that the, that's the alcohol content. Alcohol and gravity. In, in the uk, they'll list the gravity and I think that's.

[A]

What does gravity mean?

[B]

I think that's also the abv.

[A]

I like that we're doing this with beer. It's getting so, so focused.

[B]

Yeah. I, I, I like the beer. I, I find the, I find it a little annoying, the pretension behind it.

[A]

Right. You know, I dream of the Hefeweizen. Francis Connor. Have you ever had that?

[B]

I don't I'm not a Hefeweizen guy. I don't like wheat beer. I don't like wheat beer. I don't like the bitter.

[A]

Two can play this game, huh? I dream about it when I like. I've. I've dreamt of drinking. That's got a.

[B]

It's got kind of a. I don't like the aftertaste.

[A]

Banana bubble gum.

[B]

Oh, I don't get that at all. Yeah, I get like a. A little sour. I know. I know some people, they make sour ales and people like that.

[A]

Those are not for me.

[B]

Those are not for me.

[A]

We agree.

[B]

Okay, I agree. Well, I'm glad we were able to come out of here with some segment. It's like Scientologists, you know, it's taught to leave the conversation on an agreement.

[A]

How they do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have you ever done one of those stress tests? I have not.

[B]

Personality tests. I've done. I've done four of them, I believe. For real. I'm not joking.

[A]

Like the Scientology one?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I would, like. They always would sit on the sun or whatever it was Hollywood Boulevard. I always thought I would do it.

[B]

But I went to the Asha, the Ashes. They're like. That was their tax dodge. They created the Sea Org. It's the big blue building. I don't know if it's still there on, like, Sunset in Vermont or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And prior to that, I did it once in Boston. I did it again in la, on at the Celebrity Center. I did Asha. So three times. Done it three times. And it is the funniest thing to me, because it hasn't changed. And it's such nonsense. Blatantly, it's called. I might be messing up a word or two, but it's basically the Oxford I know that's in there. The Oxford standardized personality Test, which doesn't. They just made it up. They just made up. They threw on the word Oxford because we associate it with a. The dictionary or the university in England standardized personality test. And then there are a hundred questions, and they're all designed so that. And, you know, they. They take your answers. It's yes, no, or maybe or a lot. I can't remember exactly what it is. There's three options, and it's either, oh, no, it's sometimes, never, or often.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And. And they. It's all designed so that whatever you answer, they can come. They did this to me, you know, and I go in there knowingly, and they. They're. They basically show you on this graph that was Spit out of a machine. Right. So it's like you have your 50% mark and then, you know, 50 above, 50 below. And I mean, when they give me the test results, it's like, oh, you. I'm. I'm shocked. You haven't committed suicide.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, it just. And it's all.

[A]

So a machine gives the results to give it. That standardized.

[B]

Yeah. And it's like a graph, you know, it goes up and down and then. And it'll say. Now, I've been taking it in several years, but. But the times I've done it, so I assume it hasn't changed much. But it's so the. It's like you yell at your parents and whatever you say, however you answer. And there's like a hundred questions that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like you never yell at your parents. Well, that's not healthy because sometimes you yell at your parent. You shouldn't. You always yell at your parents. That's terrible. Whatever. The thing is. So there's like that. And. And then they give you the thing. And I've had my. I've used an E meter. I've had that audit done.

[A]

That's the one to audit out curiosity. Just out of. Just out of adventuring to these worlds. Yeah.

[B]

Yes. And so I have a. I have an E meter at home. The Mark 4, I believe it's called the mark M A, R, K. And then Roman numeral 4.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Something. Something electrogram meter thing. And it's got, like, It's. It's garbage. It's like made in China.

[A]

Nonsensical.

[B]

Right. And it's. They cost like $4,000.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah, because they're. They're just. You know, it's like a trump thing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They're just suckering their. Their. You know, and people buy it and they buy the volumes, books and blah, blah.

[A]

Yeah, I used to go to that museum. Not this. There's the Museum of Psychiatry.

[B]

Oh, on Hollywood.

[A]

Yeah, in Hollywood. But I used to go to the Museum of Death. Where is that? I don't know if it's still there.

[B]

But that's Scientology.

[A]

No, the Museum of Psychiatry, I believe, was Scientology.

[B]

Yes, absolutely.

[A]

There was this like, husband, wife, couple that would do that, had the Museum of Death, which was on Sunset, and I think it was on set. It was. It was like a collection of deathly things of. They played the Faces of Death movies. They had a.

[B]

Remember when. That you're. You're 40, so you're old enough to know. To remember when. Like, that was a big deal.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, There was always a kid in your free Internet that had a backpack with one of the tapes in them.

[B]

Yeah. And then you. And some was clearly, as you get older, like, some was clearly staged. Bullshit. But the monkey remember eating the monkey brains.

[A]

I don't remember that. I.

[B]

How could you forget that one?

[A]

I don't know if I saw that one, but there was like nine of these things, right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I remember this woman running to catch a train and. And it was said that she was trying to get an earlier train to go home on a Friday to see her family, and she wasn't looking in the. Another train.

[B]

I think I've seen that. Yeah.

[A]

That I wish I honestly, truly say, much like some of those IPAs I forced myself to drink. I wish I never saw that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I wish I never saw that.

[B]

There's. There's one thing. There was. There used to be a website. And I was kind of into this stuff until I wasn't.

[A]

You know, like, there is a definitive point. Yes.

[B]

Yeah. And like, I remember getting the Bud Dwyer tape.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He was a state treasurer for Pennsylvania and held a press conference and shot himself on live tv.

[A]

I remember that.

[B]

And that's where the song Nice Shot. That's what the song Nice Shot is about.

[A]

If you're telling the truth or not.

[B]

I'm totally telling the truth. Nice Shot is about Bud Dwyer. Okay. And I was like, oh, man, this is rad. I was like, what, 19, 20, you know, like, you know, we used to trade tapes and stuff and. And, you know, moving on from Faces of Death, which was a lot of. It was. And then.

[A]

Right.

[B]

There was a website, early, early reps website called. I believe it was called Rotten Dot Com. Yeah. Gonna.

[A]

Yeah, I remember. I remember.

[B]

I remember the last. You know, I saw some things. I'm like. Because I saw the lady get hit by the train, like, oh, this is terrible. And then I remember seeing something. This is going back and saying, I'm never going this site again. I'm never doing it. And I stopped. I just stopped. But it was a. I believe it was a. A Russian soldier.

[A]

Oh, gosh.

[B]

It was either. Either, either. Anyway, I can't remember who was. What faction was doing it to the other faction, but he was alive and they were sawing decapitating him live. And it was all these.

[A]

And you were jerking off to this.

[B]

I'd already come. Yeah. Just from the title. And then took the butt plug out and said, I will never watch this again. And said, I'll never wash this again is what I said.

[A]

We're laughing because it's. Well, we don't have to explain why we're laughing. We're laughing.

[B]

That's funny. It was so depraved and awful and. And I was like, what am I doing? This is. I mean, I think there's a thing with Faces of Death was almost, like cartoonish. And you see some of these things and you've seen so much worse in fictional films, right? Horror films or whatever. And it was more graphic, and it's more. And then the idea that there were people going online who really got off on this shit was so disturbing and depressing like, I'll never.

[A]

In college, somebody sent me those. I thought it was two different girls blowing a horse.

[B]

Ew. I haven't seen that.

[A]

I don't know why. Here, it's on my phone right here. Would you like to. But I. So that's an example of something that I have seen. I said, I don't ever want to see that again. But it didn't affect me. Like the woman running for the train. But here I am, still remembering it. But, yeah, some of these things. And maybe we weren't ready for the Internet. Bringing up rotten.com is.

[B]

It was early. Early, and it was just the worst of the worst. And people gleefully like, oh, man, fuck that, dude. You know? And it's just so depressing.

[A]

I remember being 12 or 13 and learning about JFK and really finding it fascinating how Lee Harvey Oswald was killed. That Jack Ruby photograph. Something about us as humans that really. Something intriguing.

[B]

Have you seen the. Where they took that photograph and they put musical instruments in front of them. Oh, it's great. It's really funny. Like, they. Lee Harvey Oswald is singing, I want to say. And then Jack Ruby's. There's like a.

[A]

Instead of being assassinated, it looks like they're playing.

[B]

They just put. Yeah, it looks like they're in a band. And then the guy, the sheriff, who's like, you know, the older white dude is like, you know, back like that is like, maybe playing bass. I can't remember, but it's pretty funny.

[A]

Faces of Death had a political assassination in it. That was pretty gnarly, too.

[B]

Yeah, that was real. Yes, because half of them were fake. But you don't remember. Oh, you might not have seen that.

[A]

I don't know if I saw that.

[B]

So there was.

[A]

I'm sure I would have remembered it.

[B]

It was like. It's narrated and, you know, in the jungles of whatever, the king, when he has a visitor, has a feast, and the Delicacy is live monkey brain. And they have these monkey heads.

[A]

Are you talking about Raiders of the Lost Ark?

[B]

No. Is that it?

[A]

That was that. Was that what it was? Because I would assume that.

[B]

Am I conflate. Conflating? Because I know Spielberg directed the first three Faces of Death.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

All right, well, Michael, this has been a treat. Your.

[A]

You're done talking today.

[B]

After this, your pleasure to. Well, I have a zoom call. Right. Pleasure to talk to. And the book is called Lucky Loser.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And it's. Why lucky?

[A]

Well, it's a play on words. And in tennis, they're.

[B]

It's not really a play on words.

[A]

Well, in tennis, if you lose in the last round of qualifying, meaning you do not qualify for the main draw, but somebody in the main draw pulls out of the tournament on occasion, someone who lost.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Will get entered in, and that person's called a lucky loser.

[B]

Lucky loser. That makes sense.

[A]

So. And then it's also like, I'm a loser because I couldn't make it in tennis, but I'm lucky because I made it in comedy. Or did I? And that's what we'll debate for years and what your YouTube commenters will discuss.

[B]

We'll debate it for years.

[A]

Yeah, for years.

[B]

Wow. What goes on in that head of yours?

[A]

I appreciate you having me.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. No, it was a truly pleasure. I end every episode with asking a question from my 7 year old daughter.

[A]

Oh, that's fun.

[B]

And she asks. She just comes up with. She'll go, I have a question for your podcast.

[A]

I like that. I'm not at that point with my daughter yet where she could do that, but I'm excited. That's a good idea. I like that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You said she's almost five.

[A]

She's almost five.

[B]

So she's starting to say funny stuff.

[A]

Oh, my God. Very funny stuff.

[B]

Yeah. That's the best, man. But one time when my daughter was three. Three? Yeah, three. She was coming down the stairs and she stopped in the middle and sat down. We were all like that. The bottom of the stairs, ready to go out. She came down the stairs, sat there and she goes, this is as far as I go. And like, what? That was the most adult, weird.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

This is as far as I go. And like, really like, hey, guys. It was the funniest.

[A]

And they're so. They're so genuine. That's exactly what she meant. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I don't know where she got that or what. And then when she was around the same age, she was asking about genitalia. Different gen. Whatever. And so describing things. And she goes, so a penis is like a silly vagina? Yeah, you could say that.

[A]

That's a great description. My daughter, we said, why aren't you asleep? And she said, I'm asleep, but my eyes won't let me. And I go, you got. I've never heard anybody say that before, but I understand it.

[B]

What's your wife do?

[A]

She imports wine.

[B]

Oh, nice.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Are you a wine guy?

[A]

Just through osmosis. That's how I consume it. Through osmosis. But, you know, I've had a. Conflicted is the wrong word. My relationship with alcohol.

[B]

I think the short answer is no.

[A]

Yes. My relationship with alcohol has been all over the place. And wine is something I enjoy from time to time, but I don't know a lot about it.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know a lot about it, but I know what I like. And this may come as a shock to you. I don't order or drink wine that I don't like.

[A]

That doesn't shock me. I unfortunately keep ordering wine I don't like. I want to hear your daughter's question.

[B]

Okay, here it is, Michael. My daughter would like to know, why do asteroids go so fast when they come to Earth, but they're not so fast when they're in space?

[A]

I just was reading this Neil DeGrasse Tyson book that answers space questions, and it's really fun to read because he could be totally bullshitting the whole thing. I don't fucking know. Yeah, I guess my short answer to your daughter is that's more about perception. It seems like they're going faster near Earth than farther away in space, but I don't actually know. It's a very smart question. Your kid is very smart.

[B]

Well, she doesn't know the answer, so she can't be that smart.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

You know the answer.

[A]

Be crazier.

[B]

You have an answer.

[A]

So my answer is perception. David Cross's daughter.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. Well, thank you very much.

[A]

Thank you for having me, everybody.

[B]

Appreciate it. Sense is Working Overtime is a Headgum podcast created and hosted by me, David Cross. The show is edited by Katie Skelton and engineered by Nicole Lyons with supervising producer Emma Foley. Thanks to Demi Druchin for our show Art and Mark Rivers for our theme song. For more podcasts by headgum, visit headgum.com or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and maybe we'll read it on a future episode. I'm not gonna do that. Thanks for listening.

[A]

That was a Headgum podcast.