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- [00:02]
A
This is a Headgum podcast. Hello. How are you? Good to see you. Hi, David.
- [00:33]
B
Nice to see you. Oh, we haven't met, have we?
- [00:35]
A
I don't think we have, surprisingly.
- [00:37]
B
I think we've run in some similar circles.
- [00:40]
A
I would imagine so.
- [00:42]
B
But you know what's exciting for me is it's been a long time since I sat in that chair.
- [00:48]
A
Okay.
- [00:51]
B
Six or seven guests have gone by. Well, I hope. I hope you didn't have to come far.
- [00:58]
A
I live on.
- [00:59]
B
That's not far.
- [00:59]
A
So I got in my steps.
- [01:02]
B
Yeah, good. Well, it's just soaking. I didn't.
- [01:04]
A
I know it was a little funky, but it's okay.
- [01:08]
B
Yeah. I'm not. I'm not complaining, but I. I was. It wasn't until I was in the elevator when I realized, like, why I. I got off. I usually, you know, get out and walk through the park on whatever day it is.
- [01:27]
A
And you have the subway over.
- [01:28]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [01:29]
A
Where do you live?
- [01:29]
B
Brooklyn.
- [01:30]
A
Oh.
- [01:30]
B
But I was like, oh, I could have just walked to the end. Just walked through the subway to the Union Square. It was stupid. I gave myself an extra eight minutes in the pouring rain with no umbrella.
- [01:45]
A
I know sometimes. Oh, you didn't have an umbrella? I wonder.
- [01:49]
B
Because I'm proud and stupid. Thank you very much. I think you're literally the first guest I've had who I'm gonna say in, like, 70, 80. I don't know how many of these I've done. Who I got here before you set? No, no, no. The people got. But we're, like, right in the chair, ready to go.
- [02:14]
A
Well, you know, I do a radio show every week on Sirius, so.
- [02:17]
B
I didn't know that.
- [02:18]
A
Yeah. Sandy Land Plug. It should come on.
- [02:21]
B
Okay.
- [02:22]
A
And we'll plug it.
- [02:22]
B
Should we leave now?
- [02:23]
A
Let's just go.
- [02:24]
B
Where's the office? Because we do. How long does this have to be, technically? Because we've already. I mean.
- [02:31]
A
Oh, you've been already. You've been. You've been shooting it already. Good.
- [02:35]
B
Yeah.
- [02:35]
A
Because I think the best stuff always happens when you think that nothing's on and you first sit down and you first meet each other.
- [02:42]
B
Yeah, that's why I do it.
- [02:43]
A
Yeah. I love that.
- [02:46]
B
Are you from here?
- [02:47]
A
No.
- [02:48]
B
Where are you from?
- [02:49]
A
I was born in Michigan. Flint, Michigan. And then we moved to Arizona. No, that was many, many years ago, honey. Long before you were probably born, okay? And when you sound like you have.
- [02:58]
B
A little bit of attitude about it. Well, I love Flint, okay?
- [03:01]
A
Flint was amazing. Flint was a was.
- [03:03]
B
I guess that is Town.
- [03:04]
A
But, you know, these places are subject to subterfuge, you know, by the American industrial, you know, system.
- [03:17]
B
Yeah.
- [03:17]
A
But, you know, it was a great town, but then we moved out to Arizona when I was 10.
- [03:22]
B
That's even worse. What's.
- [03:24]
A
It wasn't bad then either.
- [03:26]
B
But where. Where in Arizona?
- [03:28]
A
Phoenix. Scottsdale. But you have to remember this is 1965.
- [03:32]
B
Right.
- [03:33]
A
So there were, like, wide open spaces.
- [03:35]
B
Yeah.
- [03:37]
A
You know, you drive from Scottsdale way out to Cave Creek and beyond, and there was just miles of empty space with. With, you know, desert terrain and, you know, wildlife and. And it was beautiful. And I went horseback riding, where now it's probably, like, so built up, you wouldn't even know that there had ever been space to horseback ride.
- [03:59]
B
Right. So where. What brought you to New York?
- [04:02]
A
Well, my. You know, my career. And then, I mean, I started in la in the 70s. I moved to LA when I was 18, 19. I started performing. And I always come back and forth to New York, I mean, my whole adult life. And then I had my baby in 1998, and then I met my partner, my girlfriend. We've been together for almost 26 years, and she was based here. So I just.
- [04:29]
B
You have a very New York vibe about you.
- [04:32]
A
My whole life, people assumed I was from New York. So it makes, you know, total sense that people think that because. Yeah. Cause I'm like, you know, I don't wait for things to happen. Whether it's crossing the street, you know, whatever it is, I just get it done.
- [04:49]
B
It's. You're a street. You're a premature street crosser. It's fine. Yeah, my thing is just a nice.
- [04:57]
A
Metaphor for all the things in life that you can take control of when.
- [05:03]
B
You'Re crossing the street and there's clearly no traffic and you choose to cross the street and other people wait there to go.
- [05:08]
A
I'm also cautious.
- [05:09]
B
I'm from Phoenix, lady.
- [05:10]
A
I'm cautious, but also willing to, you know, go. Just go. Yeah, I look both ways.
- [05:18]
B
That's smart. Otherwise you probably wouldn't be here, God forbid. That is a phenomenon that I. I'm gonna say maybe eight years ago. I was on tour and I was in Boise, Idaho, which is beautiful, but there's like big stretches kind of in the quote, downtown, unquote area. And you can see for quite a while. I mean, you can see till the vanishing point, basically. And clearly no traffic, and people are waiting at the light. No traffic's coming.
- [05:55]
A
Yeah.
- [05:56]
B
You're in no danger.
- [05:58]
A
There's no sense of urgency. In some of these places, you know what I mean?
- [06:02]
B
You don't need urgency to just go, hey, my path is clear. I'll continue forward.
- [06:07]
A
But you. But you do, because in New York, you're always on the move. You've got to get somewhere.
- [06:12]
B
Even if I didn't live in New York and I'm not from here, I would still. I'd be. I thought. Like, I did, and I've noticed it more now. But, like, why is it. Is it impolite or something? What's. Why are people here?
- [06:27]
A
I think they follow the rules and I don't. And I think that they.
- [06:30]
B
I think that's. I think that's part of it, but.
- [06:32]
A
I also think there's not. There's a lot of. A lot more time in places like that. They're not. They know when they have to be somewhere. They're not rushing to the theater. They're not rushing to meet friends from. I mean, it's just a different lifestyle.
- [06:44]
B
Right? It's still absence, the urgency. It's still. It's still odd to me to be to. You're moving forward and you stop yourself. So it's got to be something about the rules or something like, you know, society will collapse if we all just wait.
- [07:04]
A
We'll meet in the middle. I think, literally, I think it's both things.
- [07:07]
B
I don't want to meet in the middle. And that's where the traffic is. Well, I'll meet you on the other side.
- [07:12]
A
Perfect.
- [07:12]
B
Okay. I have noticed it, though, since that first time in Boise. And it's usually a place like Boise where you're like, why are people. And then I. And I'm self conscious. Not self conscious. I'm aware. I'm self aware that I am crossing the street and they're choosing not to. And then what are they. What are they thinking? Like, there goes some asshole New Yorker.
- [07:40]
A
I doubt they're even aware or thinking or judging.
- [07:44]
B
Oh, I know I don't. That's just in my head. Yeah, I'm the star of my own movie.
- [07:49]
A
Well, it can be good or bad, depending on your emotional state.
- [07:54]
B
Have you been to Boise? Do you tour? Is that something? Yeah, yeah.
- [08:01]
A
I do three or four dates at a time. I don't do a whole big swath.
- [08:05]
B
At what part of, like, have you hit, like, the smaller, kind of rural? Do you do that stuff? No, no.
- [08:14]
A
My, my. I don't. I mean, I'm sure there are fans and people who like me in those places, but it wouldn't be cost effective. I also Sing. And I have. I have a band. I usually. I usually get local musicians and it's a lot of work to do that. My musical director, like, puts that together. But unless I know there's going to be, like, enough of a turnout, it's really, you know.
- [08:36]
B
Right. It's cost. Yeah. But I mean, if it's stand up, it's just you and a mic.
- [08:40]
A
Yeah, I don't. I don't do that, per se.
- [08:42]
B
What do you sing?
- [08:43]
A
What do I sing? I mean, I have a very eclectic, you know, songbook. It's like, you know, I draw from, you know, a lot of rock and roll. Some, you know, once in a while I'll dip into like, you know, a little something country and western just because it. Maybe it's like, has something to do with what I'm talking about, but mainly just, you know, rock and roll and things that are evocative and that I can bring my own sort of.
- [09:15]
B
Do you use the music to thread through a story?
- [09:18]
A
I usually bookend a story with a song occasionally. I'll. I may used to do that a lot more. I would. I would tell a story and then go in and out of the song. But now it's usually just like a story that doesn't really totally relate to the song. But for me, it's like, it's sort of a. A subtle reference to, you know, to whatever that experience is that I've been talking about.
- [09:43]
B
And do you, in. I don't want to say encourage, but do you discourage any kind of audience participation in the sense of, is it a dialogue or it's just you doing over your show?
- [09:55]
A
I've done that over the years, but that doesn't interest me at this point. There's too many people who are already, like, think they are the star, you know, on Instagram and TikTok. So I'm not gonna, like, encourage them. If you want. If you want to go through the process of spending, you know, five or ten years getting where we are, that then by all means do it. And I don't. And sometimes I will talk to somebody because usually my audience are like, they're there because they love me and we might have a moment. But no, I don't encourage it.
- [10:26]
B
I guess I meant that more in the difference of standup, which I think you just sort of subconsciously have as an audience member, have this feeling like, oh, they're talking to me or they're talking to us. And sometimes there are questions that are. You can't tell if they're rhetorical or not, you know, in a stand up routine as opposed to. Are you. It's like Sandra Bernard and there's your. It's your show, you know what I mean? It's more encapsulated and enclosed and as you said, bookended by their songs and stories and stuff like that. Is there a difference between those two forms for you?
- [11:10]
A
Yeah, there is. And I mean, that's, you know, I started in the comedy world, Comedy Store and improv and all the places in LA and catch a rising star. So that's how I started doing standup. And so I can more than, you know, easily handle hecklers and people believe me, but it's not what I'm trying to do.
- [11:31]
B
Right, I understand.
- [11:32]
A
I'm telling stories that I've written that are crafted and I don't want to be interrupted in the middle of a story.
- [11:37]
B
I gotcha. I understand. Yeah. And I mean, you don't want to be interrupted when you're telling a story in stand up. But it happens and it's just sort of.
- [11:46]
A
It happens, you know? Yeah, it happens. No matter.
- [11:48]
B
Not even like necessarily like a shitty heckle. I mean, just people just.
- [11:54]
A
Yeah, no, I, I jump in. I know exactly what you mean. Yes. So you gotta roll the punches sometimes.
- [12:01]
B
And what was. I don't, I'm not, I don't mean to sound like, you know, the wise old lady, but what was comedy for you? Not in the kind of, you know, Showtime documentary on comedy in the 70s in LA, but what was like that? Like that for you? Because it was, it was way less equitable back then. And it was. I. Well, just tell me. I don't want to.
- [12:30]
A
Well, I mean, it was a great jumping off place for me. You know, it was a place to go every night.
- [12:35]
B
Was it supportive? Was a scene. Supportive comedy scene?
- [12:39]
A
I mean, as supportive as it needed to be for me. I mean, I had. Paul Mooney was my mentor, so he was with me almost every night because we'd go to the clubs together and my friend Lotus Weinstock, who was an incredible comedian and also singer. So I had my group of people and I mean, people weren't unsupportive. It was just like, you know, you sometimes you just pass people in the hallway and you'd say hi. And it's not like there was nobody purposely getting in my way or being mean or anything. But, you know, the crowds had to get used to things evolving and shifting, especially for women in comedy. And I was kind of on the forefront then of doing things that were not self deprecating, that were more like liberated in every way that people hadn't seen women do that and tell jokes and stories about that.
- [13:34]
B
Were you a saucy feminist?
- [13:39]
A
I'm sort of post feminist. I'm the result of the feminist movement. So it's just sort of second nature to me to be comfortable and who I am as a woman. But I didn't have to fight that fight. I was too young to fight it on the front lines.
- [13:59]
B
But, well, just by existing and being there, you're kind of part of it. You're part of the progression.
- [14:05]
A
No, I mean, yeah, but, you know, the idea of feminism and the misconstrued understanding of it is something that, you know, it takes a long time to, like, pull apart. So, yes, I am a feminist, but I'm also like, I, you know, thank the women that came before me because I'm not the one who made it happen.
- [14:27]
B
The reason I said saucy is because that's like a. That's an adjective that would be applied back then as people are like, she's a saucy feminist.
- [14:41]
A
I never heard that before.
- [14:43]
B
I have a Life magazine cover in a frame that I gave to my wife, who's 27th generation feminist. I don't know where they are now at this point, but. And it's, it's.
- [15:00]
A
How old is your wife?
- [15:02]
B
Literally, today is her 42nd birthday.
- [15:07]
A
Oh, that's amazing. Are you older than her?
- [15:11]
B
I will remember that compliment for the. As long as I. Am I Older than 42? Sandra, look at me. Am I older than 42?
- [15:20]
A
You have nice skin. You don't have any wrinkles. I don't know.
- [15:23]
B
Yes, I'm significantly older.
- [15:25]
A
How old are you?
- [15:26]
B
61.
- [15:27]
A
Okay. Well, you look good.
- [15:28]
B
Well, thank you. You do as well.
- [15:29]
A
Thank you.
- [15:31]
B
Do you want to say your age?
- [15:32]
A
Yeah, on June 6th, I'll be 70.
- [15:34]
B
Wow. Well, you look good, too. And we're not that far apart.
- [15:38]
A
Right.
- [15:38]
B
Culturally, I think there's a big gulf, but age wise, not that much.
- [15:44]
A
Why culturally? I mean, just the experiences we've had. You mean?
- [15:48]
B
Yes. I think things were accelerated so significantly as. Maybe not as kids, but I'm going to guess teenage years, like later teenage years, early 20s. I think things were different, you know?
- [16:11]
A
Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah.
- [16:13]
B
There are things I'll just occasionally think about. Like when I was. Oh, gosh, I don't know, probably until my mid to late 20s, I don't think, like, ATMs didn't exist.
- [16:32]
A
Right.
- [16:32]
B
And the whole. What you had to Do. And not like you weren't that conscious of it, it's just what you did. But the idea that if you didn't cash your check by Friday before the bank closed, you had no money for the weekend and you had to borrow money, you had to figure. And there's more like. You hear those. You'll read a book that takes place, you know, pre 1990 or something like that, or see a movie or something. And the whole idea of credit at a bar or credit somewhere, it's like, it doesn't make any sense, right? It's like. And if you, you really had to figure out your shit by Friday before the bank closed, or you had no money, you know.
- [17:17]
A
Well, that's why I've always, always kept piles of cash around because I, I still go to the bank and cash a check. I don't. I never use an atm.
- [17:26]
B
Well, that seems kind of crazy.
- [17:28]
A
I don't like it. I don't want to use an atm.
- [17:30]
B
Why?
- [17:31]
A
Because I don't. I don't. I don't like that way of. I don't like that transaction.
- [17:36]
B
What don't you like about it? Do you not trust it?
- [17:39]
A
I. I just don't like it. I'm not comfortable doing it. So I go to the bank when I need cash, which is rare because.
- [17:45]
B
Well, that's different now. You don't really even need that cash.
- [17:48]
A
Well, no, I use cash quite a bit and I will.
- [17:50]
B
Okay, but you don't need it, is what I'm saying.
- [17:51]
A
No, you don't need it. But if I need it, I will go to the bank and cash a check and I enjoy that.
- [17:58]
B
But you also have several piles of money under your mattress, right? I don't know if it's under your mattress.
- [18:05]
A
Yes, I do. So I don't usually need to cash a check, but sometimes I do because I just want to.
- [18:13]
B
You enjoy cash?
- [18:14]
A
Because I need cash when I'm selling my merch on the road.
- [18:18]
B
Yeah, but don't. Is there. Do you have a tour manager? Any. Anybody who does that? Well, they should be handling your.
- [18:24]
A
I give them. I give them the bank. They don't. I mean, it's a very small operation. I like to keep it so you. Tabs of it.
- [18:32]
B
And you're. And has. Have you even checked in with whoever's the tour manager and said like, you don't mind that I'm doing stuff like the way they did it 60 years ago, do you?
- [18:42]
A
No, she loves it.
- [18:43]
B
And even though there's conveniences that'll be. They'll be wildly make her life better.
- [18:48]
A
I want to keep control of the situations. Money disappears, merch disappears. We like to keep a tight rein.
- [18:57]
B
I don't understand what going down.
- [19:00]
A
You don't need to go deep into this. It's okay. It's just how I operate and it's worked for me with a five dollar meal deal with new McValue.
- [19:08]
B
You pick a McDouble, or a McChicken.
- [19:10]
A
Then get a small fry, a small drink and a four piece McNuggets. That's a lot of McDonald's for not a lot of money.
- [19:17]
B
Prices and Participation may vary. McDouble meal, $6 in some markets for a limited time only. I do want to go back because I don't know, I didn't know this at all that City national, because I know City National. I've seen their banks are, are for like a upscale market. Is that the way to say it?
- [19:40]
A
Or, I mean any, obviously anybody can bank there, but they do seem to have like. So it's just sort of another level of service.
- [19:49]
B
It's become that, I don't know, explore it.
- [19:54]
A
Where do you bank, at Chase or something?
- [19:56]
B
No, I have, I have credit cards, but I, I moved all my money to a local bank, a Brooklyn bank.
- [20:04]
A
That's cool.
- [20:05]
B
I love that. It, it's, it's, it's, you know, I want to support the neighborhood. It's a small bank and it, and it supports the neighborhood.
- [20:14]
A
Amazing. That's wonderful.
- [20:15]
B
And yeah, more people should do it. And it's, it's, you know, and I was at, I was at Santander or however that's pronounced. I lived in the East Village for, you know, 12 years. And the, the, there was a bank literally at the base of our apartment building.
- [20:34]
A
Right.
- [20:34]
B
Co op. And so I just, it was convenient. I didn't, I didn't do any research or anything like that. And then when I moved to Brooklyn it was less convenient and I decided and this bank opened up in Brooklyn. That's a, you know, local thing. So it's awesome.
- [20:55]
A
Yeah, yeah, love that. Well, now we've, we've, we've addressed all of our financial, you know, concerns.
- [21:03]
B
Let's do health. Should we do health?
- [21:06]
A
I don't know if I, I don't know if I have the energy for that after that, that deep dive. But you, you tell me. No, no, this is, this is your game. So you, you, you, you go jump where you want to go.
- [21:17]
B
That's true. But you are my guest.
- [21:19]
A
Hmm.
- [21:20]
B
And I'm glad we got on Here, because I want to. I want to say this. I'm going to tell you exactly who it was because somebody wrote to my publicist. Oops. Or the publicist for the show. And hang on one second. Here we go. Forwarding. This is from a gentleman named Leo. Comment on David Cross podcast regarding Canada tariffs, anger. Okay, so this is from. This is airing now. Not now, not now, as people are listening, but now, as you and I are sat in this room discussing things. So this is. What's the latest one? Dear David, first, I just want to say, love your work, big fan, but all capital letters. But excuse me, I was just listening to the most recent podcast that came out with. Excuse me, Nimesh Patel. I was heartened and thankful to hear you noticed how fucking angry Canadians are. So I was in Canada for two weeks just a little while back, doing shows. However, I feel you missed on the reason for that anger. It's not just the tariffs. That stuff happens all the time as politicians come and go in both countries. It's the 51st state talk with the president saying he wants to destroy Canada's economy with those tariffs to make it easier to annex the country. Canadians don't see this kind of talk as a joke. We see it as a threat to our democracy and our way of life. I think it's also more than just anger. In a way, it's mourning. Like most other Canadians, I grew up appreciating and admiring American culture. But now, no matter what happens, we can never really go back to how things were before. And that really sucks. Thanks for reading. Do what you're doing, Leo. So I wanted to put that out there. That's from Leo.
- [23:16]
A
Thank you, Leo. I agree with Leo.
- [23:19]
B
Yeah, no, and I was remiss in not bringing that part of it up because they, you know, so I did. And I. I just got back. I did two weeks in Canada and then a month in Europe, and everybody has asked me, you know, oh, man, what is it like? What are they? What's the vibe? And it's not, as, you know, they're not happy in Europe, but it's more. It's not as visceral and palpable as it is in Canada. And. And they are fucking pissed. And they should be. They have every right to be. And. And, you know, it's. It's. It's a bummer for most of us, you know, that this is happening.
- [24:08]
A
No shit, Sherlock. Yeah, that's the understatement of the century. It's a mitigated disaster, okay? On every Possible level.
- [24:22]
B
Well, they're not. If you're in the Trump family or the Trump orbit, I think it's doing. It's doing well for them.
- [24:31]
A
Well, that's a given. That's why they're doing what they're doing.
- [24:33]
B
So it's not everybody. So somebody is benefiting. We can find a silver lining and go, well, at least somebody is happy. You know, if everyone was, then you'd be like, what the fuck? But there are 50, 60 people that are happy. And isn't that something at the end of the day?
- [24:57]
A
Yeah. I mean, for just sort of having a laugh about it. I guess that's true, but I guess I feel a little more, you know.
- [25:07]
B
I try to see the positive in everything, you know.
- [25:09]
A
My hat's off to you. That's wonderful.
- [25:14]
B
Well, thank you. Thank you for doffing your hat. In a figurative sense. And, you know, it helps me go to not be so negative. I have acid reflux and it helps with that. And, you know, to look at things and go, well, somebody's benefiting, you know.
- [25:33]
A
Yeah. Well, there's other ways of, like, you know, just letting it go, which, you know, I try to do on a daily basis, but, you know, you gotta, like, absorb it and intellectualize it and try to, like, figure out the best way to live with it. And everybody has their own, you know, sort of.
- [25:50]
B
Have you thought in more than just a thought, but. About leaving the country?
- [25:58]
A
No. No, absolutely not. No. I would never leave. This is my home. It's where all my friends and my family are, and I don't feel the need to run from it. I'm not personally afraid or so angry and offended that I've totally. No, I'm here. I'm gonna contribute to the positive outcome that I can, you know, make happen. And I'll. I'll just, you know, stick around and see how it goes.
- [26:27]
B
Okay.
- [26:28]
A
Yeah. I mean.
- [26:29]
B
Yeah. I'm just curious. There's no.
- [26:31]
A
No, I know. I mean, I guess I would have left by now if I was gonna leave.
- [26:35]
B
Well, I. Not necessarily. I think there are different, you know, lines in the sand for different people.
- [26:44]
A
Yeah. Oh. If they come knocking on my door and try to take me away, then it's too late. Maybe I'm. Yeah. Maybe I made a misstep. But.
- [26:56]
B
But, I mean, that's happened before, historically. And true.
- [27:01]
A
True that. I mean, we'll see, you know. We'll see how far this goes.
- [27:04]
B
Yeah. Do you have. Are you optimistic? Are you pessimistic? Or what's your. What's your view on it?
- [27:11]
A
I'm just sort of in flux. I don't know. I don't know what I am. I'm not like day to day. I'm not freaking out, but I'm. I don't know how it's going to play out. I have no idea. And I can't really, I don't think anybody does. I can't at this point, like, look at anybody and think that's the person who's going to be the game changer for us. But I'm sure somebody will, you know, materialize soon. That comes along, we go. This person seems to have the, you know, wherewithal to.
- [27:43]
B
Well, I would argue that those people have come, but they've been thwarted by.
- [27:53]
A
Right.
- [27:53]
B
But I'm talking about the powers that be.
- [27:55]
A
I'm talking about the next, you know, round of elections and possible changes.
- [28:01]
B
You mean literally in the, the midterms? Mm, okay.
- [28:06]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [28:07]
B
I mean, that is, that is. I mean, I am not prone to hyperbole, but I, I think it's literally our last chance. I think that's the last.
- [28:20]
A
Yeah.
- [28:21]
B
And, you know, we'll know relatively soon, but I think that's it. That's the last chance. And then it's. Then it's kind of done for now, at least from, for certainly my generation, maybe my daughter's generation.
- [28:35]
A
Yeah.
- [28:37]
B
So.
- [28:37]
A
Well, we'll just have to take it as it, as it comes. I don't know what else to say at this point.
- [28:44]
B
Yeah. I was just curious and I. And it's a question I ask a lot of people.
- [28:47]
A
Yeah, of course. I mean, of course it's Right. Staring us in the face because there.
- [28:51]
B
Was a lot of that kind of hyperbole, hyperbole, knee jerk reaction kind of, you know, you know, if Trump gets elected, I'm out of here. And you know, you can sort of smell the. In that and people aren't, don't really leave. But I think things are different now for lots of people and. Which is why I asked. I wouldn't have asked you that, you know, five years ago.
- [29:16]
A
Right.
- [29:17]
B
I just wouldn't. It wasn't even.
- [29:18]
A
Yeah, no, no, I, I got it. No, I hear you, but no, as of now, I'm, I'm not, I'm not going anywhere.
- [29:26]
B
Yeah. Now I want to know more about your touring and you've been doing it a long, long time. And how has that changed?
- [29:42]
A
It really hasn't changed. I've always done it just the way I do it. I'll just take A little market and I'll go into it in June. I'm doing Chicago, Minneapolis, and Milwaukee.
- [29:56]
B
Tell the folks where you're doing it.
- [29:57]
A
Well, just go to my. Just go to my website, Sandra Bernhardt dot com. I mean, it's hard.
- [30:02]
B
It's hard to remember the luck of finding this out here.
- [30:07]
A
Well, okay.
- [30:08]
B
You got to take an extra step.
- [30:09]
A
Minneapolis. I can't remember the names of the venues. I know Chicago's Park West.
- [30:15]
B
Okay.
- [30:17]
A
And oddly, I remember the place in Milwaukee is called the Vivarium.
- [30:22]
B
Oh, I played there.
- [30:22]
A
Yeah.
- [30:23]
B
Yeah, I just did that. I just. I think I liked it.
- [30:28]
A
Sounds cool. And then the. The venue in Minneapolis, I played a couple of times, and for some reason, I'm just not thinking of it. And it's a great venue.
- [30:39]
B
Is it First Avenue?
- [30:41]
A
No, no, no. I played First Avenue. I don't want to look in the middle of this. It's a waste of time. But, you know, you can go. Just go to my website, because then you can also link to buy the tickets. So.
- [30:54]
B
And what's the date? What's the website?
- [30:56]
A
Sandrabernhardt.com.
- [30:58]
B
All right, you heard it here first.
- [31:00]
A
Straight ahead, you can see all my dates coming up.
- [31:03]
B
Okay. In Chicago, Minneapolis, and Milwaukee in June.
- [31:10]
A
Exactly.
- [31:11]
B
Yeah.
- [31:12]
A
Then more dates later in July and then dates in the fall.
- [31:16]
B
What's your favorite place to play regionally?
- [31:20]
A
Well, I love Chicago. I love many. I love where I'm going soon because those are always like. There's loads of smart, wonderful people who've been coming to see me for years. San Francisco, New York, Louisiana, Seattle, Vancouver. I mean, there's really not a market I don't like where if I go to it and sell tickets, because usually that means people are fans and, you.
- [31:47]
B
Know, I guess I meant more in the sense of geographically or.
- [31:53]
A
Yeah.
- [31:54]
B
Regionally. Like, is there a. Like, I love. I. Me, personally, I love playing the south, and I don't like playing Florida. And I have okay shows in Texas, but not crazy. I have good shows in Southwest, but I don't like being in Phoenix.
- [32:18]
A
Yeah.
- [32:18]
B
Or. So that's why I met more of.
- [32:20]
A
Like, I like to go. I mean, I like going to Scottsdale and playing there because it's like where I went to high school and.
- [32:26]
B
Did you go to Camelback?
- [32:27]
A
No, I went to Saguaro.
- [32:29]
B
Okay. I went to Camelback High School for, like, three months.
- [32:34]
A
Are you kidding? So. So you lived in Arizona?
- [32:37]
B
I did. Pretty briefly, yeah.
- [32:39]
A
Your dad was on the move?
- [32:42]
B
That's one way to put it. Yes. I was. Came out to. My dad had left the family when I was 13. I went out to where? Roswell, Georgia. And that's where I'm from. Georgia.
- [32:59]
A
Got it.
- [33:02]
B
And then he was in Fountain Hills. We were in Fountain Hills, staying in a person's family's guest house. Not. Well, no, it was part of the house, a little room that he was staying at. He. He was a very proficient. He was like a. I don't want to say a con man because he didn't, like, steal money, but he was. He charmed people. He was English, had a British accent, which I could. I would see get dialed up and down.
- [33:34]
A
Okay.
- [33:35]
B
Depending on the situation. Very charming, very affable. And he was staying at this family's house where the dad clearly was pissed, and there were two younger daughters and the mom, and there was nothing going on, you know. But then when I came, it was like, now I. You know, kind of forced to focus and we'll leave and get a real place for me and. And have a kid, you know? And I think in part he left because he just was like, yeah, I'm not into being the dad. You know, I thought I would, but it turns out it's not for me. And so then I. Then he was kind of burdened with this responsibility to. To somebody other than himself, and it didn't go well, but we had to move out of there. And then we moved to this shitty apartment where I do think he was the landlord's wife. Not. It's how we got. Because he never paid rent. And then we had to leave, like.
- [34:51]
A
In the middle of the night.
- [34:52]
B
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
- [34:52]
A
Oh, Lord.
- [34:54]
B
But why did I. Oh, yeah. So. So I was. So I went to. For about three months, I went to Camelback.
- [35:01]
A
That's crazy.
- [35:02]
B
And. And then we drove back to. Got a driveway car and pawned a bunch my stuff and then drove back to Atlanta.
- [35:11]
A
That's rough.
- [35:12]
B
Yeah, it was. It was not great. But I was. You know, I was 13. I still thought my dad was kind of awesome in a way. It was starting to wear off at that point that. That experience really started to take the. The shine off of things. Yeah. And. But I still had. You know, my dad's cool and he's funny and he's, you know, that kind of thing. And it was. It was an adventure. And I. And I, we never had money, so the idea of not having any money wasn't like. It wasn't a change. It wasn't like, you know, it didn't. It just felt kind of like normal that we would, you know, be psyched about getting a thing of baloney like Oscar Mayer where you peel back the thing and a. And a small jar of mayonnaise and that's what we'd, you know, roll up the bologna and put it in the mayonnaise and then like a box of dry cereal like Fruity Pebbles. And I would eat handfuls of that. Like that was kind of. I didn't look at it like, oh man, I'm so poor. You know, it was just like part of the. I mean, it's not as. It wasn't as fun as cashing a check at the bank in person, but it was still had its own kind of. It was, you know, it was all part of it. You know what I mean?
- [36:32]
A
Yeah, it sounds like it.
- [36:34]
B
Yeah. Sorry, I didn't want to make this about me or my shitty dad, but. But yeah, so Camelback. And, and I thought, I was hoping that if I referenced that you'd go like, whoa, that's weird. You know.
- [36:52]
A
Well, I.
- [36:53]
B
But meaning that, meaning you might have gone to Camelback. No, and you'd be like, oh, wow.
- [36:59]
A
I went to Saguaro. So, I mean. But it is interesting that you were. That you had an Arizona experience.
- [37:06]
B
I did, yeah. And. And I, I do not. I've been to Phoenix a whole bunch and I've had great shows there. Really enjoy the shows. I'll play the Van Buren, great little space and really enjoy it. But I do not get the appeal of Phoenix at all anyway.
- [37:27]
A
Certainly not now. I mean, it's so overbuilt and like, it's just.
- [37:31]
B
There's nothing going on and it's. Isn't it like the fifth largest city in America now or it's way up.
- [37:37]
A
There, I have no idea. But you know, a lot of people moved over from LA and there's nothing appealing about it.
- [37:43]
B
And it's a city. Here's it. And I'm. I know this sounds like a bit, but I'm not. It's sounds like a bit because it's crazy, but they have. Everywhere you go, like in the downtown or anything, you know, where they have those, you know, mixed use buildings where there's a bowling alley and a movie theater and you know, a Cheesecake Factory and whatever. So you go out to these areas where they have like nightclubs and stuff and for, I don't know, 12 square blocks, everyone, every corner, every business has those automatic misters. Right, right. You know that, that mist error on you and that's so people don't die.
- [38:24]
A
It's very.
- [38:25]
B
Who the fuck wants to live in a place where that you have to be misted or you'll die?
- [38:32]
A
It's very strange. Yes, I couldn't agree more. But again, the nice thing was I got to experience Arizona as more of, like, a natural, beautiful place before it got, you know, before most of this country got, you know, taken over by tract housing and.
- [38:50]
B
Yeah, I mean, Atlanta is. Is. Is markedly, wildly different than the Atlanta I grew up in. Yeah, I mean, it's.
- [38:57]
A
I'm sure now. No, I've been going to all these cities for years, too, you know, I mean, working, performing, and things were much different in the 70s and the 80s and even, to a certain extent, the 90s. And now you go and it's just like you feel like you're in the same place all the time.
- [39:12]
B
Yeah, it is. And they lose their character and.
- [39:16]
A
Yeah, but I think these are all, like, you know, kind of obvious, you know, observations. So it's sort of like, what are you going to do? You got to just find your little, you know, peace of mind wherever you are and go to. Go to places and do your gigs and.
- [39:33]
B
Do you have a retreat from the city? Do you have a place where. You don't know.
- [39:36]
A
I don't.
- [39:37]
B
But you love the city. You love.
- [39:38]
A
I love the city. I mean, you know, because I live far west and it's pretty quiet over where I am. Some nice local restaurants and I know all the neighbors when, you know, I walk my dog and I see people and talk. So it's. It has a, you know, a very nice cohesive feeling to it.
- [39:57]
B
Oh, that's one of the things I love about New York is like, you really know your neighbors.
- [40:00]
A
I mean, they do.
- [40:02]
B
I mean, just. It's a. It's a, you know, for all the. The pretense of. Of, like, the south, where. Where I grew up and. And there, you know, it's. It's definitely. People are more polite, more like, good morning conversing kind of stuff and. But, you know, I didn't know, outside of a handful of people, didn't really know the neighbors that well. I mean, I mean, in your apartment complex, you know, people. But not. But here I like. I know. I know if I have just not even that I made a concerted effort. I know the mailman. I know the. Yeah. The key Foods and I. Yeah, the. I know my neighbors, like, literally cross street and down the street and there's a block association and.
- [40:59]
A
Yeah, same here.
- [41:00]
B
And that's awesome. And my local bar, I mean, I, I know more people just in a four square block radius in New York where, where I live than I did probably outside of doing, outside of work in LA than I did in nine years in la cumulatively.
- [41:22]
A
Yeah, well, LA is like, it's just, it's a whole different setup, you know, it's. Yeah, you can't, you can't compare it. But yeah, New York's great that way.
- [41:32]
B
Yeah, it really is. And people are, it gets, it gets a knock for being unfriendly, but it's, it's, it is a very. I find New Yorkers, and have found New Yorkers to be very generous with their time, very helpful. Sometimes you don't want the help, you know, I'll give it that Sometimes somebody is sort of a little intrusive with their trying to help, you know what I mean? But they're neighborly, they're generous and. Yeah. And exceedingly helpful, you know.
- [42:08]
A
Yeah, it's true.
- [42:09]
B
And I remember the, I've had numerous kind of. This is the quintessential New York experience. But I remember during the blackout the year after 9 11. Remember the big blackout? Were you here for that?
- [42:26]
A
Of course.
- [42:27]
B
And I've never been prouder. I don't have a city pride or national pride. I mean that's an odd kind of concept. But I was so proud of how New York came together and everybod. And this is so New York too. Like, I don't, I, I can't imagine this happening in Boston. And I lived in Boston for quite a while but you know, and everybody was still on edge because of 9 11, like what's going on? We were trying to get information totally. And you know, nobody's price gouging batteries or shit like that. And everybody is. When we started to understand after a few hours, okay, the whole grid from Canada to down into the Ohio Valley, this whole. We're offline and we're going to be offline for a little bit and, and then everybody pulling out like all their meat from the freezer and having grilling out in the streets. And I remember going to 2A the bar, 2A on second and A. And, and you know, the bar, the. They're given their beers that are going to go, you know, warm up or whatever in there. And I took a trash can, turn it over, went to my apartment, got a boombox is back. This is when they're boomboxes. And, and, and because there's no traffic anymore, you know, and then we're all dancing in the streets and everybody's grilling out and taking over the streets. Everybody's looking out for each other.
- [44:04]
A
You know, it's. It's. This is when people really come together in these situations that are. Where all the exterior distractions fall away and people just allow themselves to just be who they are with each other. And that's sort of like the ultimate goal. But it's very hard to do that day to day because people are just caught up in their work and their world. And it's just. That's why those moments are so special. Like any sort of weather or sort of surprise shift and in, in the, in the.
- [44:41]
B
Or something scary and where people have to look out for each other.
- [44:44]
A
Right? Exactly. I mean, I think that's what people show. They're the best sides of the.
- [44:49]
B
It's not about like retreating into your doorway with a gun.
- [44:53]
A
You know, I mean, I mean, I'm. I would be sad to think that's what people do, but some people do do that. I don't know. They're paranoid. They're. They don't trust themselves or anybody else. So I guess that's just, you know, a sad reflection on them.
- [45:07]
B
I'm thinking of moving to Phoenix only because I'm. I've been listening to myself. I'm going back and listening, and I. I think I haven't given Phoenix a fair shot.
- [45:19]
A
I. I think you're. Think you're pulling my leg, but that's okay.
- [45:23]
B
I am pulling your leg. I'm not going back to Phoenix. I mean, I will go back to do shows.
- [45:27]
A
I. I think if you go back to Phoenix, your wife won't be going with you.
- [45:31]
B
No. No.
- [45:32]
A
So that. That's probably a deal breaker for both of you.
- [45:35]
B
No, I'm not going to. I'm not going to Phoenix. Not going to Houston. Houston's another place. I'm like, sorry, man. I. I don't understand the. There's great cool places and cool people and all those, but take your stand.
- [45:50]
A
If you don't like a place, you don't need to like.
- [45:53]
B
I'm very lucky that way. I. I acknowledge how lucky I am to be able to do what I do. And I get to live wherever I want. I mean, I wouldn't. You know, I could save lots of money by not living in New York.
- [46:07]
A
Right. We all could for sure. And taxes and.
- [46:11]
B
Yeah. I choose to live here for so many reasons. And now especially that I have a. A daughter.
- [46:16]
A
How old? Your daughter?
- [46:17]
B
Eight. And.
- [46:18]
A
Wow, that's a big deal. You started super light.
- [46:22]
B
Yes.
- [46:22]
A
You got a Lot on your plate, honey.
- [46:24]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [46:27]
A
The best years are yet to come.
- [46:29]
B
Yeah.
- [46:30]
A
Kick your ass.
- [46:31]
B
I'm aware. I. I know. Well, I'm enjoying the. I'm enjoying this.
- [46:36]
A
Were you married before this? It's your first marriage?
- [46:39]
B
This is my first marriage, yeah.
- [46:40]
A
And how long you've been together?
- [46:43]
B
Since 2008. Early 2008.
- [46:48]
A
Okay.
- [46:49]
B
Oh, actually, wait, what is it? May. So, yeah, we've been together for 17 years. For 17 years?
- [47:01]
A
Yes.
- [47:01]
B
Yeah. Give or take a year.
- [47:04]
A
Okay.
- [47:05]
B
I'm not good at math. Yeah, We've been together a long time. And it was also one of those relationships where it just. Almost immediately she had moved in, basically, and then that was that, you know.
- [47:17]
A
Yeah. That's awesome.
- [47:19]
B
Yeah. And so.
- [47:21]
A
So what's your daughter's name?
- [47:23]
B
Marlo.
- [47:24]
A
Marlo. Cute.
- [47:25]
B
Yeah. And she's pretty awesome. And we just. They came over to London. I was in Europe for a month touring, and I carved out, like, some time. And during her spring break.
- [47:39]
A
Yeah. So you could go and do things.
- [47:41]
B
Yeah. And it was great. And we. My wife and I are both like, boy, this is. You know, she's been to LA three, four times, and we go to Atlanta three, four times a year, and. But never that kind of, like, long flight, having to deal with, like, jet lag and all that kind of stuff and.
- [47:58]
A
Yeah, let's start them early.
- [48:00]
B
Yeah. And she was great. She was so. She was just a champ, you know, traveling and. She was great in London. She was. She loved it. Loved it.
- [48:10]
A
Of course she did. London's fabulous.
- [48:12]
B
Yeah.
- [48:12]
A
Kids, kids, kids adapt to places that have, you know, like, texture and history and. And.
- [48:21]
B
Oh, she was.
- [48:22]
A
They love that.
- [48:23]
B
And the stuff that she wanted to do, like, she wanted to go on the top of a bus, you know, double decker bus. I'm like, great. They have a great bus system, you know, and. And we'll just take buses to where we have to go. And then she wanted to get on the tube and we did that. And then we. She wanted to go see all the corny stuff, Buckingham palace and the changing of the guards.
- [48:43]
A
That's what the kids.
- [48:44]
B
Yeah, that's what it should be. She loved it.
- [48:46]
A
That's awesome.
- [48:47]
B
And I loved. And, you know, Amber and I loved being there with her and the enthusiasm, and it was pretty cool. And then she started doing the accent.
- [48:56]
A
She'd be.
- [48:57]
B
She'd be running Daddy, you know, and she'd make me do the accent and stuff, and it was pretty cool.
- [49:04]
A
That's nice. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I love it.
- [49:09]
B
Sandra before we leave, is there anything you, I want people to know to go to just sandrabernard.com.
- [49:17]
A
Yeah. Or follow me on Instagram. Sandra G. Bernhard. See, somebody took my name, but my middle initials, G. So Sandra G. Bernhard. That's why, you know, you'll know it's me.
- [49:30]
B
That's why you got to say it.
- [49:31]
A
Yeah.
- [49:31]
B
For information on shows now, I end every episode with a question from my daughter.
- [49:37]
A
Oh, I love that.
- [49:38]
B
Okay. And you feel free to answer in any way you see fit.
- [49:42]
A
Okay.
- [49:43]
B
So your question right now is Sandra. Oh, and also I want to say that, what a treat that you popped up on one of my favorite shows, Severance.
- [49:58]
A
I know, it was a great experience.
- [50:00]
B
I bet.
- [50:01]
A
Yeah.
- [50:01]
B
I mean, I love, love that show.
- [50:03]
A
It's amazing.
- [50:05]
B
And had you seen it before, that must have been a bit of a thrill.
- [50:11]
A
It really was.
- [50:11]
B
Yeah. It was such a cool.
- [50:15]
A
Yeah. Ben Stiller called me and asked me if I would do this part and I was like, absolutely.
- [50:19]
B
Yeah.
- [50:20]
A
So it was fun too because we shot it last year. I think it was March, February, March. So I had to sit on it for well over a year because I, you know, you can't say a word. So that was fun too, just knowing in the back of my mind do you come across, oh, yeah, that's going to come up soon.
- [50:38]
B
Will your character be coming back? You don't know?
- [50:41]
A
No, I don't think they even know what, where the story's headed. I mean, I don't, I don't know when they're going to start shooting again. I don't know. I'm totally out of the loop.
- [50:50]
B
Okay. All right. It was cool, but yeah. Okay, here is your question.
- [51:00]
A
Okay.
- [51:02]
B
Sandra Bernhardt from my 8 year old daughter.
- [51:05]
A
Love it.
- [51:06]
B
Why do moths like light so much?
- [51:10]
A
Why do moths like light so much? I think it's warm. I think it's clarity for them. It's like light. I mean, who doesn't like light? People are attracted to light. And why wouldn't moths be attracted? Because they probably are like in the dark a lot, eating up wool. So they probably like to come out and have a little bit of attraction to something that's not so dark.
- [51:41]
B
All right, there you go. There's your answer.
- [51:44]
A
Yeah.
- [51:45]
B
All right, guys, great. Thank you. Senses Working Overtime is a head gum podcast created and hosted by me, David Cross. The show is edited by Katie Skelton and engineered by Nicole Lyons with supervising producer Emma Foley. Thanks to Demi Druchin for our show art and Mark Rivers for our theme song. For more podcasts by Headgum. Visit headgum.com or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and maybe we'll read it on a future episode. I'm not gonna do that. Thanks for listening. That was a Headgum podcast.