Continental Garbage: The Last Postcard

Summary

Continental Garbage: The Last Postcard Sentimental Garbage Podcast Episode Summary

Host: Caroline O'Donoghue
Guest: Shen Cowney
Release Date: September 12, 2024

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Introduction and Setting the Scene

In the episode titled "Continental Garbage: The Last Postcard," hosts Caroline O'Donoghue and Shen Cowney dive deep into their experiences related to travel, podcasting, and cultural reflections from the summer of 2024. The conversation begins with a playful acknowledgment of their unique podcasting environment—a hotel bed in Lisbon—setting a relaxed and intimate tone for the discussion.

Notable Quote:
Shen Cowney [00:58]: "It's basically the only place that this podcast should happen."

Overcoming Technical Challenges

Caroline and Shen reminisce about the initial technical hurdles they faced while launching their podcast. Shen mentions the skepticism they encountered and the daunting task of setting up equipment in unconventional locations, such as interrailing trips.

Notable Quote:
Caroline [02:28]: "I know we've been consistently amazed by... how many people have liked it."

Gratitude to Support Systems

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to expressing gratitude towards their support system, particularly Meg—their diligent assistant who ensured the podcast's smooth operation by managing technical issues and editing. The hosts highlight the indispensable role Meg played, likening her to the "midwife of this podcast."

Notable Quote:
Shen Cowney [05:35]: "Meg, we appreciate you so much."

Live Event at Salted Books, Lisbon

The hosts share their delightful experience hosting a live podcast event at Salted Books in Lisbon. They describe the venue's charm, the intimate gathering of 40-50 attendees, and the vibrant interactions that made the event memorable.

Notable Quote:
Shen Cowney [07:00]: "We just had the funnest time... We were having too good a time."

Summer Review: Embracing the "Summer of Bops"

Transitioning into a broader cultural analysis, Caroline and Shen delve into the "Summer of Bops," a period marked by significant trends in music, reading, and entertainment. They discuss the resurgence of reading, the decline of traditional television's golden age, and the rise of impactful music tracks that resonate deeply with audiences.

Notable Quote:
Caroline [19:42]: "This was the summer of bops. This was not the summer of television."

Book Discussions: Celebrating Literature

The hosts passionately discuss their favorite books of the summer, highlighting titles like "Long Island Compromise" by Taffy Bodessar Akner and "The Wedding People" by Alison Essence. They emphasize the importance of complex characters and the newfound appreciation for reading, noting a positive shift in cultural engagement with literature.

Notable Quote:
Caroline [43:15]: "This has been a great summer for vibes."

Music and Cultural Reflections

Caroline and Shen analyze the current music landscape, acknowledging artists like Maisie Peters and Charlie XCX for their influential works. They explore how music serves as a powerful medium for expressing generational trauma and exuberance, seamlessly blending intellectual depth with danceable rhythms.

Notable Quote:
Shen Cowney [24:37]: "Someone's been like, oh, this kind of ineffable thing."

Reflections on the State of Television and Reading Trends

The conversation shifts to the evolving dynamics of television, with the hosts predicting a decline in its dominance due to industry challenges like strikes and diminishing subscriptions. In contrast, they celebrate the renewed popularity of reading, attributing it to its aesthetic appeal and the immersive experience it offers.

Notable Quote:
Shen Cowney [36:32]: "Reading is hot again."

Conclusion and Looking Forward

As the episode wraps up, Caroline and Shen reflect on the positive vibes of the summer amidst global challenges. They express a bittersweet feeling about concluding the episode but remain optimistic about future endeavors and potential new locations for live events. The episode ends on a heartfelt note, with general well-wishes and gratitude towards their listeners and supporters.

Notable Quote:
Caroline [53:34]: "It's a great summer for vibes... a little space carved out in a world that's otherwise rapidly going to shit."

Final Thoughts

"Continental Garbage: The Last Postcard" offers a rich tapestry of personal anecdotes, cultural critiques, and heartfelt gratitude. Caroline and Shen's candid conversations provide listeners with an engaging and comprehensive overview of their summer experiences, blending humor with insightful reflections. This episode serves both as a celebration of their journey and a thoughtful commentary on the shifting landscapes of culture and entertainment.

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Note: Advertisements and non-content sections from the transcript have been excluded to focus solely on the core discussions and insights presented in the episode.

Transcript

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[Caroline]

Hello and welcome to Continental Garbage, the podcast where we sometimes go to Lisbon. My name is Caroline and I just spent my morning at the puppet museum. And joining me is a woman who had a pata de lata so good she shuddered. It's Shen Cowney. And for the final time, it's Giancani. And fittingly, we are on the continent on a bed in a hotel room.

[Shen Cowney]

It's basically the only place that this podcast should happen.

[Caroline]

Should happen.

[Shen Cowney]

So I feel like it's gonna be always the rest of my life, a kind of very powerful sense memory. Anytime I sit in a hotel bed.

[Caroline]

Yeah. It's like, why should I have a mic clipped to me?

[Shen Cowney]

Why am I not talking about a film right now with my dear pal Caroline?

[Caroline]

Isn't this nice? How nice?

[Shen Cowney]

It's so weird.

[Caroline]

Like, the first time we did this, we were sitting down on your couch after watching Eat, Pray, Love.

[Shen Cowney]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And like, I remember when Gavin said when he was. Because he was listening to the postcards all the way through when we were interrailing. He obviously never listened to the movie.

[Shen Cowney]

Which I'm sure he doesn't care for women's things.

[Caroline]

He doesn't care for women's pictures. And he was like. He said. Because he listened to like a few in a row. He was like, I listened to Eat, Pray, Love and you guys were like, nervously like, oh, so this is an experiment and we're going traveling. And then he was like. And then I turned on the Tuscan Son and it was immediately, I just washed my ass in the. And the tone has kept on varying throughout.

[Shen Cowney]

It continued on. But yeah, it was. This was such a little experiment. And when I say little, I mean, it started little and it just went on and on and on and on.

[Caroline]

I know we've been consistently amazed by how, I think, how much interest you and I both have in it. Have done it, how much we've, like, changed our own sort of department of standards about it. And like. And like, what we've, I don't know, I guess we'll get into it. But, like, what I'm continuously surprised by is how many people have liked it.

[Shen Cowney]

I do think that, like, and I vividly remember this because the day before we went into railing, which seems years ago now, you texted me and you were like, listen, I know it's a really good pun name Continental garbage, but there's a chance it might not happen.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Shen Cowney]

And the reason for that was technical problems.

[Caroline]

And the problem is that, like, we were so, like, the last thing I wanted to do is to bring my hulking MacBook Pro circa 2015 that needs to be plugged in basically all the time to be turned on. And like, it has food stains on it and like the.

[Shen Cowney]

It's not the fat sister life.

[Caroline]

It doesn't feel bad. She did not. She would have fit in the fattester, but with great agony. I think she's not meant for that life. She's meant to be at home, plugged in all the time.

[Shen Cowney]

Yeah, she's a solid workhorse. She's like a sewing machine or like a blender that lies in your kitchen, like your microwave.

[Caroline]

That's. She's a microwave.

[Shen Cowney]

She's not a portable.

[Caroline]

Don't take your microwave on holidays with me.

[Shen Cowney]

I don't know what it felt like because we couldn't get the iPad to work. And I think at that point also we still weren't sure if this was going to be good or like really, really weird.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Yeah. I had no idea.

[Shen Cowney]

So we were both just like, well, I mean, if we can't do it, then we can't do it and people won't be forced to listen to us talking weird shit for months. But I am so glad that they.

[Caroline]

Were on top of the technique technical stuff. I remember it so clearly because I was on because I'm obviously permanently on deadline and also because, you know, I know I'm self employed, but because we were leaving for, you know, three weeks and that's so much. As a freelancer, so much work you have to turn in and check boxes, you have to check or whatever before you go. And obviously you would see the same thing as well. But so obviously almost everyone who's going away for a length of time has to do so much work before they leave. And then the fact that the microphones weren't working, the iPad recording apps weren't working, nothing was working. And I just felt like, why are you doing this? Why are you setting yourself for misery and failure? You're one. I had to really have a talk with myself as like, A frequent workaholic. And somebody always has to turn their hobbies into projects and their friends into colleagues. We love to do it, but I was, like, looking at myself and being like, what the fuck are you doing? What's wrong with you? Why can't you just go on holidays with your friends and not turn it into a project? And also, no one's gonna want to hear. And I had this whole moment, I text you and I was like, I don't think we should do this anymore. And you were like, I beg reconsider. And then I said it to my assistant, Meg, who. Who has been helping us all the way through and who we sent the files to every Tuesday night. And then she edited them and then she put them up, and we couldn't have done it without her. And she was just. She came over to my house and. And. And Meg, little meg. She is 26 years old, but somehow, despite this age difference, she is my dad.

[Shen Cowney]

I believe you told me she spent five hours sitting at your kitchen table.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

Calling up various random things to make the iPad mics work, looking at YouTube tutorials, like dealing with the men with all the lowercase little names on forums.

[Caroline]

Oh, my God.

[Shen Cowney]

She was really deep in the sound engineer community that day.

[Caroline]

She really was.

[Shen Cowney]

And I think Meg is basically the midwife of this podcast because without it, it would not have. It would not have happened.

[Caroline]

It would not have happened without Meg. And like, I. I just. She's gonna be listening to this right now and editing in her home in Clapham and Daxing Meg. And our final dox of the podcast, it's Meg.

[Shen Cowney]

Meg, we appreciate you so much.

[Caroline]

We appreciate you and we love you.

[Shen Cowney]

This is so fun.

[Caroline]

Yeah. And you enabled that fun.

[Shen Cowney]

You did.

[Caroline]

You did. It's like a sweatshop that I forced 26 year olds living in London to have a shit summer so I could have a good one.

[Shen Cowney]

Yeah. I was trying to put his spin on it, and I was like, yeah, that's pretty serious. Guess I did pretty much what you did.

[Caroline]

Yes, I did.

[Shen Cowney]

But she deserves. You know who also deserves some thanks?

[Caroline]

Who?

[Shen Cowney]

The host of our live final episode, which is obviously not this, because.

[Caroline]

Yes, obviously we're not at a bookshop.

[Shen Cowney]

Yeah, we should have probably led with that. We thought about it, you know.

[Caroline]

Yeah. So, okay. We just talked through Meg and my insecurities. Why don't you talk through our event at Salted Books on Thursday? Now it's Saturday.

[Shen Cowney]

It's Saturday. We arrived in Lisbon, which is where we are. It's very Exciting. And we did an amazing live event at Salted Books. If you're ever in Lisbon and you want a book, or even if you don't, but you just like to look at books and nice spaces, you've got to go to Salted Books because Alex hosted us there with an intimate gathering of like 40 or 50 people. And we just had the funnest time.

[Caroline]

Talking about all the things we were a ten of the head. Attend the heart. Attend the event.

[Shen Cowney]

We were.

[Caroline]

It was a 10 of an event.

[Shen Cowney]

It was such a 10 of an event.

[Caroline]

Everyone there was a 10. And it was also like, you know, as I'm sure many people on this podcast are fans of Sex and City, it was that season six, we make a party for you in the bookshop.

[Shen Cowney]

It was we make a party for you in the bookshop. And it was a party in the bookshop. And we were there for such a long time. And then we had so much wine afterwards.

[Caroline]

It was so. It was so fucking cool.

[Shen Cowney]

It was just. I just had the nice. I could have sat there talking shit for hours.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

I think one point, Alex was like five minutes and we were like, no, no, absolutely. You can't make a stop now. The yapping has been release. We know everyone wants to go home, but we're having too good a time.

[Caroline]

Yeah. And like, it's so funny as well because it's like a small, unair conditioned bookshelf. It's so hot.

[Shen Cowney]

It was so red. I was the reddest woman that's ever lived.

[Caroline]

This quality of feeling like a Baptist church or something where people were just fanning themselves with like books that they had bought. And just like us saying completely like, sometimes I look at my job in my life and like saying something about like Taylor Swift or like Charlie XCX or something or Sean Bean. And I just see people, like looking and nodding with a gleam of sweat on their foreheads, fanning themselves with a brochure they got from the museums that day. And I'm like, this is weird.

[Shen Cowney]

It's a fantastic job to have, but thank you, Alex, for giving us basically the reason to be able to come back to the continent again. As if we haven't had enough holidays each year. This summer we had to squeeze in one more. And the event was very fun. And I think we're going to do a kind of a little recap almost of some of the highlights.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

Rather than probably listening to us like snorting and cackling down mics in a very, very hot bookshelf.

[Caroline]

Exactly.

[Shen Cowney]

For one and a half hours.

[Caroline]

We did record. We did record, but listening back to the audio, it's like, was not the best space for it. And also we were just kind of engaging with so many people in the room that I don't think it would have given the casual listener a fulfilling experience. So we're just gonna say thank you, Alex Holder, for the event Insulted Books. And is there anyone wanna thank before we get into our summer 2024 wrap up?

[Shen Cowney]

I want to thank you, oh, pal. Not just for, like, letting me come on your podcast for four months, but for being just the best person and like, really, like just holding me through what would otherwise have been a real up and down summer. You know, it would have been such a shit summer, I think, if it hadn't been for continental garbage. So thank you, Caroline. I think it really would. I know. And we're going to talk about this. I think it was a big summer for the world, but I think it would have been a bad summer for me.

[Caroline]

It would have been a bad summer. No way. I should have done that. Would have been a bad one for you and yours.

[Shen Cowney]

It would have been probably better, but it would have been less good, I like to think.

[Caroline]

But, you know, considering we're always talking about the various different trouser legs of time that one can go through, and I'm not asking us to get fully into this particular trouser leg, but what if there was a trouser leg where you didn't go traveling and worked on your relationship and then just like, kept it going for another year and then you broke up?

[Shen Cowney]

I. I think with the distance that I now have from that relationship, I think potentially even before I went traveling, there was a certain level of being like, I don't know that this is going to work out.

[Caroline]

She's been in Portugal for a few days. Her hair has got that holiday wave. Her eyes are gleaming. She's gonna have a bottle of wine tonight. She had one yesterday. She's full of perspective. She's full of Zen.

[Shen Cowney]

The number of, like, revelations are full. Just sitting down in squares and being like, do you know what? These things happen. Do you know what? I don't want to do casual dating anymore. I can't be asked. All these things have been realized in but two days in Portugal.

[Caroline]

Do you know the musical artist Maisie Peters?

[Shen Cowney]

I know of Maisie Peters.

[Caroline]

She has this song that I heard the other day on my Spotify sort of playlist or whatever, and I felt it. Sometimes I do this thing when my friends Are going through a hard time where when I'm listening to breakup songs, I pretend to be them so I can fully feel the soul.

[Shen Cowney]

Okay. I knew that because of the time that we went to see Lorde, when she released Melodrama and we saw at Alexandra palace, and I was going through a breakup, and you, like, held me like I was a little green egg, and you whispered in my ear, I'm so jealous of you, because I was just, like, weeping on that great breakup album. And you were like, you get to feel this in a way that I just don't truly.

[Caroline]

It's such a sick parasocial.

[Shen Cowney]

That's really funny.

[Caroline]

People sometimes come up to me at events and be like, I have a parasocial relationship with you. I have a parasocial relationship with my most wounded friends so I can experience music more.

[Shen Cowney]

It was like I felt like you were doing the equivalent of when Sylvie tries to stick her tongue up your nose, you're like, I can taste your thoughts.

[Caroline]

I can. Yeah, I know. I remember one of my friends, her boyfriend cheated on her, and they broke up, and she had to move out. And the next weak lemonade dropped. And I was like, this is fantastic for her, just. Just going for coffee with her so I can enjoy lemonade better.

[Shen Cowney]

So, Maisie Peters, anyway.

[Caroline]

Maisie Peters. There's a song at the end of her last album, the Good Witch, where she's. You know, it's very much a breakup album. I think you'd really enjoy it.

[Shen Cowney]

And I'm sure I will. And I'm sure you'll watch me do that.

[Caroline]

Yeah. And. And there was a song that I really. Where anyway, she sings. The lyric is, I'm doing better. I made it to September and I can finally breathe. And I was pretending to be you.

[Shen Cowney]

Oh, my God.

[Caroline]

It's a really good song.

[Shen Cowney]

Oh, she's nearly crying now.

[Caroline]

Yeah. I just, I think, thought of being.

[Shen Cowney]

Me listening to this song. I'm not yet.

[Caroline]

I think when we wrap on this podcast, we should listen to it and maybe top up our makeup and maybe have a private cry.

[Shen Cowney]

I think that could well, happen.

[Caroline]

I love that.

[Shen Cowney]

Anyway, anyone you wanted to.

[Caroline]

Thank you, obviously, but for this is much more practical reasons, because I just want to say that, like, there is so much that went into that trip that I had nothing to do with.

[Shen Cowney]

The terrier and the pony.

[Caroline]

The terrier and the pony. But, like, my God, just actually, it became a revelation to me last night when we were out with some people after the event and somebody asked whether interior railing was A difficult thing to plan. And my response was no. And then you responded, yeah, well, the thing is that what an interrailing ticket really is, it's a discounted train ticket, but you still have to make separate bookings and with those bookings come some fees and regulations and you have to go through separate sort of sites and domains and depending on the nation, it has some. And I was just like, oh, fuck. I was just fucking sitting reading the book. And you were going through translation apps to convert, like Italian and like, to see what exactly we needed to get through the border. It's my gift.

[Shen Cowney]

It's the Swiss army knife of the two of us.

[Caroline]

And I just, I really want to thank you for like, not getting like, frustrated or like. Yeah, like, I think there are other dynamics and I just. There are many dynamics that cannot handle a three week traveling trip, but.

[Shen Cowney]

Oh, I would say 95% sense of my like.

[Caroline]

And that's not a common people I adore. Yeah. It's just not meant to be, you know, but like, I think there are so many dynamics where like day six, you would have been texting someone, being like, she doesn't lift a fucking finger. She lifts me sore. Everything.

[Shen Cowney]

I just. It was the pony and the terrier. It was a perfect balance.

[Caroline]

Yeah. To reiterate, the pony and the terrier.

[Shen Cowney]

Oh, yeah, sorry, that's rather me just saying animal name. For those who might not have listened to all 18 episodes, which is fair.

[Caroline]

I actually forget the origins of the pony and the terrier.

[Shen Cowney]

I believe you just said it to me one day. You said, it's like, I'm a pony and you're a terrier and you're just kind of like nipping at my heels and making me go in the right direction. But I provide the muscle and sometimes the moral fortitude that's needed to get us through these difficult moments. And that was us. We were also like Gustav and Zero in the Yambude Fest Hotel, which remains one of my favorite episodes.

[Caroline]

Also, you are Timon and I am Pumbaa.

[Shen Cowney]

Timon and Pumbaa. Pony interior. Gustav and Zero. There are many different ways to explain it, but it's a perfect traveling combination. And if you have.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

If you are a pony with a terrier in your life or a terrier with a pony in your life, try interrailing.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

You'll have a great time. But yeah, it is just a discounted rail ticket. So if anyone's wondering. Yeah, it's like, it's still a lot of admin. I'm Now Booking dot Com. Genius level three, though. So I get money off a lot of stuff.

[Caroline]

I think this is the one way in which I made it up to you.

[Shen Cowney]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Is that I let you have all the genius points and I now have.

[Shen Cowney]

20 off all my hotel stays forever.

[Caroline]

So.

[Shen Cowney]

Thanks, Caroline.

[Caroline]

I love booking.com. i love it too. Let's move on to the. Do you know what else? Sorry, can I be a bit mushy for a second?

[Shen Cowney]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

There's one last person I want to thank and it's Gavin for just being like, yeah, he deserves a lot of thanks. Yeah. My wife can just go away for three weeks. Three weeks.

[Shen Cowney]

And then for the subsequent three months, the number of times he would just come home from work and I'd be like, hey, Gavin.

[Caroline]

Yeah, he's well used to that, though. That's fine.

[Shen Cowney]

I still, you know. Still.

[Caroline]

Yeah, it's just.

[Shen Cowney]

It's great.

[Caroline]

It's just really nice. Like, I just. I just feel really lucky to have to have that.

[Shen Cowney]

I've had a sudden flashback to you somewhere around the. I don't even know. Want to know what number, bottle of wine after the event. Me and Becky being like, but how do you do it?

[Caroline]

Oh, my God.

[Shen Cowney]

How do you find a good man? I don't know.

[Caroline]

And we just. Yeah, that was about like 2 in the morning in that cocktail bar. You guys were like, how you guys doing it? And then we tried to like, drag up some like. We just. We sounded like 70s self help books. And being like, you have to accept one another's flaws.

[Shen Cowney]

It's like, yeah, it was. I don't remember anything he said.

[Caroline]

I remember the spirit of it was he kept trying to like, like muscle together some kind of self help book thing at some point, being like, I don't even have to.

[Shen Cowney]

And he kept being like, I'm just very lucky. I'm just a very lucky girl.

[Caroline]

I am just a very lucky girl.

[Shen Cowney]

He definitely deserves thanks. Thanks, Gav.

[Caroline]

Thanks, Gav, for being chill and cool.

[Shen Cowney]

He is very chill and cool.

[Caroline]

So we've done Meg, we've done Alex.

[Shen Cowney]

We'Ve done Gav, we've done each other.

[Caroline]

This is a great orgy. Gav's doing a lot of heavy lifting, but I think he's up to it.

[Shen Cowney]

The only person who's missing is Sylvie. And does she deserve thanks?

[Caroline]

She does not deserve thanks. She deserves to be put down.

[Shen Cowney]

Oh, my God. I did have this, like, thought of that. You could one day patch together a bloopers reel of just all of the moments for the past 18 episodes where Sylv has made chimp noises or done a fart so obnoxious that we've had.

[Caroline]

To stop recording farts so bad.

[Shen Cowney]

Chew on it. And just been like, oh, God. Sort of. The gagging and the whining.

[Caroline]

It's so weird because, like, we will, like, record. You'll typically have an evening. You'll come to my house. She'll go crazy, which I love, by the way. We'll record the postcard. She'll sit next to us and scream. And then we will put on a movie, and she will curl up like the Firefox logo next to us for three hours, not peep. And then we will start the microphones again. She will start screaming.

[Shen Cowney]

It's just such an amazing noise. But I feel like people have got to know her very well, probably through this, this season, in a way they might not before. Why does she make such odd noises?

[Caroline]

I don't know. She wants to be like mother. She does be a podcaster, too.

[Shen Cowney]

She really does. And that's what it is. So, obviously, this has been the Summer of Continental Garbage in my heart, but for many other people, it has been the Summer of Brat.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Okay. So we're now. We're in our Summer in Review.

[Shen Cowney]

We're in our Summer in Review, which is what we probably should be doing, because that's what we said we're going to do on the title.

[Caroline]

I can't tell still whether this feels like a historically important summer for Vibes or whether I just felt a great vibe.

[Shen Cowney]

I think it's been historically important Summer for Vibes, and I'm basing that entirely off being on Instagram and people doing, like, summer roundups, but they've got a real kind of Mona Lisa smile energy to them, you know, like, this was the year when everything changed.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Where everything went back to normal. But also, like, we have an appreciation for how bad things were.

[Shen Cowney]

We really do. We're far enough away that we're no longer traumatized by it.

[Caroline]

Exactly. In 2018, we didn't know how good we had it. And also, we were younger then. And like you never youth wished on the young, etc. And then that span of years happened.

[Shen Cowney]

Awful times.

[Caroline]

And then. Yeah. And now we're out. As I keep saying, and I really believe this on a vibe level, we're finally back to full health.

[Shen Cowney]

We are.

[Caroline]

And like, I think I said this the other night at the event, but I have a friend who. We used to work at a bat sanctuary, and he once told me that the way that you measure the air quality of any given area is by counting the number of bats who live there. Because bats only live in very clean air. And I do think the health of any summer can be judged by the amount of bops in the air. And this was the summer of bops. This was not the summer of television. This is not the summer of Barbenheimer, of going to the flower cinema. No, like, this is how much our health bar has changed between 2023 and 2024. The best thing about 2023 summer was going to the cinema.

[Shen Cowney]

Lame.

[Caroline]

Now, I love the cinema, but that's a fall activity. That is.

[Shen Cowney]

That's a winter sport.

[Caroline]

That's a winter sport.

[Shen Cowney]

That's not a summer sport.

[Caroline]

And the fact that, like, you know, it's like we thought that that was what having a good time was, going to the cinema with some friends wearing pink.

[Shen Cowney]

God, we were so naive.

[Caroline]

We were so not. But it's almost like after Covid, we were born again. And like, Barbie was us as babies. It was like us toddling out and now, like, brat summer, which this has been. That is the summer of, like, being teenagers, but you're in your 30s.

[Shen Cowney]

It's been wonderful.

[Caroline]

It's been so good.

[Shen Cowney]

So many people are shagging and kissing the bops everywhere.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's been your bop of the summer?

[Shen Cowney]

Oh, God, Hard to decide.

[Caroline]

Yeah, I mean, there's been a lot floating around.

[Shen Cowney]

Tell me yours first.

[Caroline]

Okay. Well, they're all extremely obvious. So me. Me and Gav have been walking around Portugal all day just speaking the words to365 by Charlie.

[Shen Cowney]

Phenomenal.

[Caroline]

Yeah, just. I'm on my own way animated. I'm your favorite reference, baby. Call me Gabrielle. Just like every single place we go, it's just. We're just under our breaths and that kind of unconsciously. And it's just. It just feels so good in my bones. And also I want to, I think, like Pink Pony Club by Pink Pony Club. It's so important.

[Shen Cowney]

That is a very important tune.

[Caroline]

It's an important tune. I mean, the idea, the whole thing with Chapel Roan in general, of like, being an artist who released an album in like middle of 2023 and now suddenly out of nowhere has five songs in the Billboard top 10 charts. Five. Isn't that crazy?

[Shen Cowney]

That's the power of this summer on a debut album.

[Caroline]

That's what this summer is like.

[Shen Cowney]

This is because this is some of.

[Caroline]

Five top tracks on a debut album. It's never happened before. It never happened before.

[Shen Cowney]

I say that I do not know much about music, so I'm assuming it hasn't. But there's been quite a few of those kind of like girlies climbing the charts who actually have been working hard in the background.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah, I know Sabrina Carpenter has been there.

[Shen Cowney]

Serena Carpenter. But she again, this is her first kind of big summer.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

Because the era Charlie xcx, I think this is. I think this is a new era for her.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still remember when we had to.

[Shen Cowney]

Work with her on Cornetto years ago. Do you remember that?

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

Flashback to a previous job.

[Caroline]

I remember Gav was on that shoot. Yeah. When Gav was on the Cornetto shoot with Charli xcx and for years he used to have like his little funny little, you know, stories was about Charli XCX on the Cornetto shoot, which I'm not gonna repeat here cause it'll get me sued. But everyone was like, oh yeah, Charlie xcx, I know who that is. Kind of. And now those stories, if he told them into camera on TikTok, he'd have 1 million likes. My God.

[Shen Cowney]

Yeah. 20xx used to promote ice creams and.

[Caroline]

Now she's the biggest star in the world. Well, she's the biggest star of the moment.

[Shen Cowney]

She is.

[Caroline]

Something about Pink Pony Club I want to go back to for a second, which is I saw a meme the other day, it's kind of been going around of this very much older gay man dancing to Pink Pony Club at a chaperone gig or whatever. And like it's a very, very sweet video. And she's sort of pointing at him up in the balcony and he's just getting his life and it's really nice. And like, part of the reason it's going viral is people being like, oh, we've got so many queer elders who like lost everyone when they had their first. When they had their first go around at the Pink Pony Club that they lost everybody. And now. And to be able to like dance that song now must be like so amazing. And it made me think that like the power of a bop and the thing like all art forms, whether they're novels or plays or films or whatever, there's one thing that they specific that art form does that no other art form can do. For example, novels makes you sit with a thing in a way nothing else can because it takes over every sense. It's in your brain. It's the most intimate experience you can have with a piece of art because it is a form of brainwashing.

[Shen Cowney]

It is just like vivid hallucinations.

[Caroline]

Vivid hallucinations. And there's nothing else that can do that. And bops and music. What it can do is like, it strips back all of the years and experience that you've had your whole life. And if you hear something like Pink Pony club, whether you're 70 or 17, it's the same thing of just exuberance and like just being with your friends in a club. And that feeling, that essential feeling has never changed.

[Shen Cowney]

Never have.

[Caroline]

No.

[Shen Cowney]

But someone has crystallized it and put it into. Into sing song noises.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Shen Cowney]

That matters. Someone's been like, oh, this kind of ineffable thing. Yeah, I can turn that into three and a half minutes of danceable glory.

[Caroline]

And like, do you remember that viral TED Talk from years and years ago that, oh my God, I can't believe I bring you wrong. That Elizabeth Gilbert did. Oh my God, we're going back to the stars. The Gilby's. Gilby's forever back to Gilby's.

[Shen Cowney]

I didn't see this TED Talk.

[Caroline]

Well, I saw the line. I bet you did, because I'm a Gilby.

[Shen Cowney]

You're a Gilby to your very core.

[Caroline]

But she said this thing, and her whole TED Talk was about the idea of creativity as being a thing. Like genius is a thing that visits you and passes through you rather than something that you have. And her sort of creative process is I show up and I do the mulish work and then genius passes through me. Oh, beautiful. Right? And the, and the.

[Shen Cowney]

I had a very different thought.

[Caroline]

Wait, no, you know what I mean. I don't think she means genius in the capital G. I think she means. Oh, no, no.

[Shen Cowney]

I just.

[Caroline]

The muse or whatever in inspiration.

[Shen Cowney]

I just was. Immediately it came to my mind. The German word dirschwald came to my mind, which is through fall. That's how German people say diarrhea. Something passes through. I was just like, ah, the German word for diarrhoea, which is, oh my God, so not beautiful. But it's the problem with being, as I am, a renowned polyglot.

[Caroline]

You need to get on this novel, man. You are wasted in advertising. That is like a whole fucking Sally Rooney chapter just there.

[Shen Cowney]

But yeah, right.

[Caroline]

Beautiful. Jen, where are you?

[Shen Cowney]

I think it is a very beautiful metaphor. If you don't know the German word for diarrhea, continue on.

[Caroline]

So to carry on. And then so she talked about like this thing, you know, a Spanish bullfighter is saying ole, which is obviously a. Now it's Like a football chat. The ole, ole, ole. And how that came from, like, Moorish Spain. Being like, Allah and that to be like, everyone in the stadium could see that, like, God has briefly passed through this moment. That's really cool and, like, isn't it? I think about it all the time. And that's what a bop is. It's like, oh, God is passing through us for a minute.

[Shen Cowney]

And God is blessing the Pink Pony Club.

[Caroline]

Yes. That's how I feel when I'm listening to Pink Pony Club in the shower. Like. And Von Dutch.

[Shen Cowney]

And my personal favorite on the album, Guess.

[Caroline]

Guess.

[Shen Cowney]

I just really love that she just did a whole song about knickers. Knickers and oral sex.

[Caroline]

I just think this is.

[Shen Cowney]

It's a great encapsulation of the moment.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Loved it. And like that, like, again, the air quality is good.

[Shen Cowney]

There were no, like, the things. There have not been any. Like, I know there's this whole Oasis, whatever reunion going on. Like, I could not care less.

[Caroline]

Yeah. It's not been so. I don't care at all. I know people listening to this will care. I don't care.

[Shen Cowney]

Men in Bands has it. Do you know what I mean? I was in the same room as Mr. Matty Healey.

[Caroline]

Yes, you were. You were at an awards show where.

[Shen Cowney]

He was at the awards show that he was at. And he spoke on stage and he was just so boring. I was just like, no, get rid of the men in bands. Go away.

[Caroline]

Well, they've been.

[Shen Cowney]

Bring only the women. Solo women artists.

[Caroline]

I would also like some women in bands.

[Shen Cowney]

Women in bands too. But mainly I just was there and I was like, oh, snooze, snooze, snooze. And then Shaka Khan came on and we were like, woo. Brilliant.

[Caroline]

I know. I think about this all the time of like, you know, the whole, like, pop in the 2010s, like with Lady Gaga and Beyonce, and those things get bigger and bigger and bigger. And now I feel like they've gotten bigger in a different direction. Like, the spectacle has gotten ever, ever increasing, but also the cerebral ness has increased with it.

[Shen Cowney]

It's so knowing.

[Caroline]

It's so knowing. It's like both, like, like, aesthetically, like, extreme, but also intellectually satisfying. Like, if you listen to Apple by Charlie xcx, it's like this beautiful, like, generational trauma thing that's also like this dance bop. Like, it's insane.

[Shen Cowney]

It's just very good.

[Caroline]

And it's just like. It's almost like there's. And this is why I Love an art war. Like, I love it when, you know, Taylor drops an album and it's huge or whatever, and Charlie makes. Sympathy is like a knife, you know?

[Shen Cowney]

Oh, yes.

[Caroline]

Just to be, like, just. Just people who are making art in response to the ecosystem that they're in, which is like, there's. Everyone's at the top of their game. So I keep raising my game, you know, and it's. That's what we. We've got this amazing pop diva landscape now. And, like, I just keep thinking about Westlife and. And how when Westlife on stage six.

[Shen Cowney]

Cardboard cutouts on little stools.

[Caroline]

I know.

[Shen Cowney]

I didn't know how many of them were. Were there six?

[Caroline]

I couldn't tell you. And I'm from where they're from.

[Shen Cowney]

Oh, no.

[Caroline]

You know, and like the. Whenever when they wanted to signify something extreme happening in the song, all they could do is stand up off the stool, you know, because, like, they live in such a toxic sphere. Masculinity is so fucking toxic that if you do anything a bit out there, you're immediately, like, branded as feminine or gay or whatever, or wanting it, which are seen as being too feminine. And they have, like, handcuffed themselves to the fucking. Like, they just handcuff themselves.

[Shen Cowney]

It's very sad to be a man, anyway.

[Caroline]

It's cringe and sad to be a.

[Shen Cowney]

Man, but particularly this summer.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

Like here we are talking about the brat summer, the glory of the summer.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Girls, the gays and the days. We're all having a great summer.

[Shen Cowney]

But the he's the he meant they.

[Caroline]

Were not the he hims. The he hims, not so much.

[Shen Cowney]

No. The thing that we talked about in the event, which I think is definitely worth bringing back up again, other than this being the summer where men just called each other pedos.

[Caroline]

We're referring to the Drake and Kendrick lamaire.

[Shen Cowney]

A whole beef that completely passed me by, because not there for the he hims, but raw dogging flights. Like, that's the big news out of men this summer. What if you just stared into the ether for any time?

[Caroline]

Yeah. Vis a vis. If there was a male version of Continental garbage, the things they'd be talking about would be raw dogging. Explain to the listeners who don't know what raw dogging flights are.

[Shen Cowney]

First of all, a moment for one of the great semantic shifts of our age. Raw dogging, of course, used to mean something very different. Of course, conjuring very vividly the idea of kind of like a sausage with no bun. But it's, of course about, like, having sex without a condom on. And now it just means doing anything without media crazy. Like just anything where you haven't got music in your ears or something in your eyes.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

So men raw dogging flights is this thing where men have started, Apparently a.

[Caroline]

Very small number of very weird men.

[Shen Cowney]

But listen, these kind of things escalate quickly, so it's worth getting ahead of it.

[Caroline]

I've already seen, like, broadsheet travel magazines being like, we tried the roar dunking thing to see what it's like.

[Shen Cowney]

You know, it's just going on a plane and not having a book or a film or even music, because I can definitely get on a plane and not, like, not have to read something.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

But I want something in my ears at least to block out just the sound of my own thoughts.

[Caroline]

Yes. Well, that's obviously weak and they want to be above that. Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

And what was Gavin's very intellectual and also hilarious take on this?

[Caroline]

What Gavin said is that men have heard about mindfulness. And because, like, a lot of these, like, sort of Jimmy Fitnessy influencers guys or whatever they are, they do have, like, mindfulness in their thing because they eventually run out of stuff to post about. Like, you can't. You can't post about protein and lifting every single day. You have to mix it up so they'll do mindfulness stuff or whatever. And he was like. And obviously, like, you know, mindfulness is sort of like habit stacking and, like, maybe learning how to journal and learning how to meditate. Maybe getting a little app that helps you do that and, like, really taking time for yourself. It's like. But men have to do the most extreme version of that. So what they're doing is they're dumping all their mindfulness into eight hours twice a year on a flight. And that's them just like, oh, wow, I'm doing. I'm ticking off all my mindfulness.

[Shen Cowney]

It's just. It's just embarrassing.

[Caroline]

It's really embarrassing.

[Shen Cowney]

Do you know what it puts me in mind of?

[Caroline]

What?

[Shen Cowney]

And as I said this, I'm like, this is a very specific reference you're probably gonna edit out.

[Caroline]

Try me.

[Shen Cowney]

Are you familiar with Anglo Saxon poetry?

[Caroline]

No. Please, go on.

[Shen Cowney]

There's a poem, it's, like, sort of from about the 9th century, and it's called the Dream of the Rood. And it's about Jesus being crucified. And it's at a time in British history where we were moving from, like, a warrior culture to, like, Christianity appearing. And so the way that this poem Is written to try and make Jesus, who's like a very like, meek, suffering lamb of a man, seem good. Is it written like Jesus got up there and he fucking showed that cross? It's really kind of like horny.

[Caroline]

Like he's like propaganda for Jesus.

[Shen Cowney]

Propaganda for Jesus. But to make it appeal to the warrior men.

[Caroline]

Right, that's fantastic.

[Shen Cowney]

They had to be a bit like.

[Caroline]

And he just hugs that guy cross. Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

And he's like, hammer me on. He's like, basically fucking the cross. Sorry, that's probably sacrilegeous, but it's a hilarious poem if you read it.

[Caroline]

Why would you? I've got a glimpse into your other life as a lecturer. Like, there's such a trouser leg of time where you just stayed on at university and did lectures and sounded like.

[Shen Cowney]

This, just chatted about stuff. But honestly, it's that. It's like that was 1200 years ago and nothing has changed.

[Caroline]

No.

[Shen Cowney]

No kind of spiritual practice can be given to men unless it is rolled up in like, barbarism and like, matches dress.

[Caroline]

You are the smartest person I've ever met. I think that is so fascinating. Makes me want to get an MA just so I can talk to you. That's so fucking yes. That's so right.

[Shen Cowney]

Why?

[Caroline]

Why are you so correct all the time?

[Shen Cowney]

Well, I don't think I am, but on that one, maybe toxic masculinity.

[Caroline]

You don't have to worry about 10 of the head man because you got it.

[Shen Cowney]

I don't know that the men like that kind of turn though, on a first date. Hi. Did you know that masculinity is so toxic that you haven't been able to do anything ever?

[Caroline]

Ugh. I think they might know and that's.

[Shen Cowney]

Why they don't like to hear it.

[Caroline]

Not from us.

[Shen Cowney]

No, no, not from.

[Caroline]

From another man, maybe.

[Shen Cowney]

Maybe from another man.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Fuck. Okay. What else this summer?

[Shen Cowney]

What else this summer? I mean, there was no tv, but that in itself is interesting.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Yeah. For the first time in a long time, I haven't had people being like, have you watched this? Have you watched that? Did you watch this?

[Shen Cowney]

I mean, sure, there was tv.

[Caroline]

Everything I watched this summer, I think I watched with you. Like.

[Shen Cowney]

Yeah, I think every time. Occasionally I've, you know, had to watch stuff on my own.

[Caroline]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

I mean, but it hasn't really gone in.

[Caroline]

It hasn't gone in at all and.

[Shen Cowney]

Been like, well, there's a TV on in the background, isn't there?

[Caroline]

And that's fascinating because, like, TV has Been like the reigning artistic form for the last decade, I'm gonna say, whenever, like, Mad Men was in its prime and Game of Thrones was it.

[Shen Cowney]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

I feel like that's the beginning of, like, the golden age of television or whatever, and it's kind of gone through a couple of sub eras. But I now think we're sort of entering, and I kind of know this professionally as well, we're entering a sort of the television dark ages.

[Shen Cowney]

I think television dark ages because.

[Caroline]

For several reasons, in terms of, like, the strikes and all that. And also a lot of those streamers that started because they wanted to have a competitive place in this marketplace, have realized, especially post Covid, when people are canceling all their subscriptions to things, that there isn't as big on market as they thought it was. And so I know so many people who are trying to sell shows and TVs or whatever. And, like, these are people who are, you know, I know people at the very low end of things who have never sold a show and people who have sold several shows and they are all saying the same thing, which is nobody is buying. Like, there's, like. It's really interesting.

[Shen Cowney]

Wow.

[Caroline]

Yeah. But, like, it's like where. Yeah, the golden age has passed.

[Shen Cowney]

The golden age has passed and what will come up in its place.

[Caroline]

But I also think.

[Shen Cowney]

I think books have been doing quite well this summer.

[Caroline]

Reading is hot again.

[Shen Cowney]

I feel like people. I mean, reading is hot. It's always been hard, but I feel like I've had people who I work with, like, sidle up to me and be like, hey, I've rediscovered reading this summer.

[Caroline]

Well, you know what else? Yeah. Real good on the thing of, like, reading being hot. It used to be that if you kind of weren't that hot, reading sort of made you hot. Right now it's hot. People are reading. That's aesthetically beautiful. People are reading now. What's that?

[Shen Cowney]

I'm staying for one night in a hotel in Lisbon for reasons of accommodation. Admin. You know, I'm a terrier and I had to do it. Which has a pool, but it's not one of those pools. That's like an athletic pool for swimming in.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

It's a pool that exists so that hot people can sit outside in a bikini and look at one another. And I sat there. Not in a bikini.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

Reading a book.

[Caroline]

But everyone there reading books. Yeah. Yeah. All the hot people. What are you even seeing?

[Shen Cowney]

What?

[Caroline]

What books?

[Shen Cowney]

I saw two separate people reading. Good material.

[Caroline]

Yeah, well, they should.

[Shen Cowney]

They should. I mean, Suppose I wasn't getting so close that I could, like, really, like, get up in the covers of them all. Been a bit weird to do a full tally of, like, excuse me, Sam, what are you reading today? But, like, every single person at that pool was reading a book. No one was watching a show on their. On their iPhone. And I'm glad because that. Lame.

[Caroline]

Why do you think reading. And I've seen a lot of, like, pieces about this as well. Of, like. And maybe it's because. And this is actually looking to something else that, like, so much of it is being aimed at millennial women now. I guess.

[Shen Cowney]

Maybe. But I think everyone's doing it. I honestly think part of it.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

Is that reading is just a good outdoors activity.

[Caroline]

It is a good. Yeah. There's no shine on the screen.

[Shen Cowney]

Like, there's no shine on the screen.

[Caroline]

Battery doesn't go dead.

[Shen Cowney]

And it does look good. Like, if you're in a cafe reading a book that's like, oh, sexy. Interesting.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Yeah, right?

[Shen Cowney]

And that works in a way that it doesn't. I also do think this has been the summer of horny books. If you go outside of kind of the sort of literary. Literary London girlies, which I know is very much, you know, a bubble that we both are familiar with, but, like, just generally, this has been the year of, like, horny fantasy.

[Caroline]

Yeah. I mean, so Sarah J. Maas has obviously been around for a few years.

[Shen Cowney]

So long that, in fact, my very first appearance in your podcast six years ago was to talk about a court of thorns and roses when it was still just Nolly. It was not a thing at the level that it is now.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

But that has completely blown up this summer. So many. I've read so many articles and things about, like, people getting really into romantasy and just. Absolutely. Just horn dogs for.

[Caroline]

It's so funny when you. Because there's so many. You really catch women reading a quote of thorns and roses in public. And, like, when you've read it as well, you're like, ah, you horny bitch. I was on, like a. Like a very long. I think it was when I was. When I was in California in March. I remember going to the front of the plane to go use the bathroom, and I was waiting, you know, there in the little kitchen area where you're kind of not supposed to be, but there's also no choice but to be there.

[Shen Cowney]

You gotta be there.

[Caroline]

You gotta be there.

[Shen Cowney]

Snacks and your full bladder.

[Caroline]

Exactly. With your snacks and your full bladder. And there was just the artist was just sitting down on the little jumpsuit, just reading the final one. And she was like a third from the end. And I was like, I know everything you have put in your little head, you dirty bitch. And you are the person who's giving me little drinks and pretending to be professional. But I know you're not professional because you're reading this. I know that.

[Shen Cowney]

You know, you could just lean in.

[Caroline]

And whisper a word to her and.

[Shen Cowney]

Be like, I know.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

But I would say that I just.

[Caroline]

Put a hand on her shoulder and go, has the mating bond slept in place? And then get escorted from the plane.

[Shen Cowney]

Just thrown out of the door at high altitude. Yeah. One of the people who rediscovered reading this year, who was a friend of mine, literally turned up to me at my desk at work and was like, I've rediscovered reading. And I was like, what have you read? And then she was like. And I was like, it's Court of Thorns and Roses, isn't it? It's just a real good gateway drug.

[Caroline]

And also, I've noticed an uptick in men reading novels. Yes.

[Shen Cowney]

I love to see it both.

[Caroline]

It's both. Just seeing them around, reading it. And also, for the first time in my entire career, I've had men reading who I know texting me to say they are reading my book. And that has never happened before.

[Shen Cowney]

That is wonderful.

[Caroline]

As they should. I'm really glad. Thanks, guys.

[Shen Cowney]

It's been a summer of reading and I hope that continues.

[Caroline]

Yeah. So that. Yeah. So.

[Shen Cowney]

Because I feel like probably what happened was pandemic reading big, because, you know, you needed to vividly hallucinate your way out of the horrors of just sitting on your own.

[Caroline]

There was a real trench in that because there were some people reading very big. Some people couldn't concentrate on reading at all. Right.

[Shen Cowney]

That's true. I was very much on the reading. Very big side. But then I think, like.

[Caroline]

But certainly say it were up.

[Shen Cowney]

Yeah. Like 2021, 2022, 2023. It's like, well, I want to go out again now. I don't want to be living in an imaginary world.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

And there was that moment where we weren't sure if all books were now going to have to reference the existence of pandemics. Luckily, they don't. It's really nice to have got through that bit. You know, some TV shows have gone there. Most books. Most of them aren't bothering.

[Caroline]

Yeah. It's lovely.

[Shen Cowney]

We're just far enough away.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

That every now and then you read a book and you're like, oh, it's referenced in the way that it should be, which is a tiny bit.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Caroline]

Get moving [e-mail] hey there, Ryan Reynolds here. It's a new year and you know what that means. No, not the diet resolutions. A way for us all to try and do a little bit better than we did last year. And my resolution, unlike big wireless, is to not be a raging and raise the price of wireless on you every chance I get. Give it a [e-mail] Switch $45 upfront payment required. Equivalent to 50 $15 per month. New customers on first 3 month plan only. Taxes and fees, extra speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited. See mintmobile.com for details. What's the best book you read this summer?

[Shen Cowney]

The best book I read this summer? Yeah. This is not. I don't think I've read anything that's like hardback this summer because I don't do that very often.

[Caroline]

No, I rarely read like contemporaneous literature.

[Shen Cowney]

It's just because they're really big and hard to carry around. I do like them. Tom Lake I read this summer. I loved Tom Lake. Loved it.

[Caroline]

So joyful.

[Shen Cowney]

I loved it so very much. I also read. Oh, I did read some hardback fiction recently. I read a book called the Wedding People by Alison Essence.

[Caroline]

Oh, I have that on my Kindle.

[Shen Cowney]

It is so good. Oh, great.

[Caroline]

Because I have downloaded a bunch of stuff for this holiday and I don't know what to pick, so I'll definitely start with that.

[Shen Cowney]

That one's like, you know, it's a bit dark at the beginning, but it is very good. Okay, that one.

[Caroline]

Amazing.

[Shen Cowney]

I did. I love the Ministry of Time as we know. We talked about that already. Yeah. So there's my big books this summer.

[Caroline]

What about you? My favorite, favorite book of the summer was Long Island Compromise by Taffy Bodessar Akner. So Taffy wrote Fleischman is in trouble.

[Shen Cowney]

Yes.

[Caroline]

A book I really liked, but I'm not. Yeah. I mean, to be honest, like books that have like a lot of dating app stuff in them.

[Shen Cowney]

Not for you, you don't read that?

[Caroline]

I guess because I just don't have that experience. And, like, also I've feel like I've got really smart, funny friends who can tell me all about that experience. We don't really need to realize. So I really liked Fleischmann, and I love Taffy as a journalist. So I read it. And first of all, I'm very surprised that it's gotten such a soft launch considering she has had this massive, massive first debut novel. And then, like, I mean, this is gonna sound, like, egotistical, but, like, generally when a book is coming out by a known author, I know all about it because I've gotten, like, a PR email about it. Like, I'm on all the mailing lists.

[Shen Cowney]

Six proof copies.

[Caroline]

Yeah. And the proof copy people ask me if I want a proof copy or whatever, and that's a very privileged position to be in. But no one. No one emailed me about it, and none of my very in the book industry friends said a word about it. I didn't see a single table in a bookshop or, like, a stand or anything. I saw no promo. I just kind of walked into Waterstones one day and it was just there with all the other new fiction. And I was like, something's gone. I'm sorry. Whoever the publicist is in the UK for Taffy Britta Sackner, you kind of screwed the pooch on this one. I'm really sorry. I'm probably friends with you. I don't know. I know lots of publicists, but, like, it is nowhere and it is fantastic. It's my favorite, favorite fucking novel I have read in ages.

[Shen Cowney]

I'm gonna read it next and do.

[Caroline]

My favorite thing about it as well is that, like, I feel like. And this is another way I know that, like. Like, we're back to sort of full health, culturally speaking, if like another sort of bat metaphor or whatever. But I feel like I've been reading novels for a really long time now. I've, like, really, like, I've really fallen out of love with a lot of contemporary novels, which is a big thing for someone who writes novels to say, because I feel like there has been a lot of anxiety coursing through the veins of the writer writing it of being perpetually terrified that they are going to be associated with the thoughts and beliefs of their characters, and therefore they are writing these, like, oh, my unlikable female character has, like, been neglecting her, like, job lately and not showing up to the shelter as much to look after the dogs. She's a real bitch. Like, and, and, and like, just things that feel very, like, okay or whatever. The people who are just, like, not that bad being treated as the worst human beings on earth. And there's always a scene where, like, their best friend will sit them down and be like, not cool, man. And I'm just like, come on. I'm a nasty little girl and I like nasty characters and I like exploring how bad people can get. And like, so Long Island Compromise. It's just every single character is a cunt. And it's so funny and it's just so fucking good.

[Shen Cowney]

I can't wait to read this.

[Caroline]

But just the confidence to write a book of cunts.

[Shen Cowney]

Yes.

[Caroline]

Oh, we're back to full health. We're back.

[Shen Cowney]

We're back to full health.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

People are allowed to be cunts.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

You have to have a traumatic, tragic backstory.

[Caroline]

And like, the mask cuntiness of fictional people helps you navigate to understand your own darkness. It's important. You know, the books are great. I just. There's been so many. Like, I'm an embarrassing thing about me is that I'm a Goodreads power user.

[Shen Cowney]

Are you?

[Caroline]

I love to.

[Shen Cowney]

I did not know. I did not have you paired as a Goodreads person.

[Caroline]

I love Goodreads.

[Shen Cowney]

Okay.

[Caroline]

I only ever leave 5 star reviews because I don't want to start beef with other authors.

[Shen Cowney]

Yeah, that's, I think, a very wide way of approaching it.

[Caroline]

But other day, if I'm editing this podcast and when you're editing a podcast, you always have to be doing something else because, like, if you, like, you want to. Do you know what I mean? You want to listen, you want to edit as though people are. You're somebody who's listening. And so I'm just on Goodreads, just trolling shit reviews for books I didn't enjoy.

[Shen Cowney]

I do think that is very fun.

[Caroline]

It's so fun.

[Shen Cowney]

I would say that I am much more like to go on Goodreads, which I don't. I don't think I have like a profile on it, but, like, go and Google it if I hated a book to find other people who hated it for the exact same specific reason. Oh, I hated it.

[Caroline]

So fun.

[Shen Cowney]

And one of the most frustrating is when I hate a book and then no one else has hated it in exactly the same way. And I'm like, well, I wonder why. The way you just sort of nestle.

[Caroline]

Down and you're like, yeah, when you tap the vein, oh, so good. I read one the other Day. That was. It was for a book that featured eating disorders. And she said, like, the review was one star. And the reviewer said, my eating disorder took a lot of things away from me, but what it gave me was an understanding of how shit this book is. I was like, that's so funny.

[Shen Cowney]

Oh, my God.

[Caroline]

I've never wanted to track a Goodreads reader user, Dan Moore, and, like, have them on the podcast and just be like, hi, Hi.

[Shen Cowney]

Tell us all your things.

[Caroline]

But I've noticed when I am trolling through Goodreads reviews is that I see a lot of these snooty little. And obviously Goodreads reviews aren't a measure of anything, but snooty little reviews that are like, this book is just filled with horrible people, and I don't want to spend time with these people. I'm like, what?

[Shen Cowney]

You don't have to. No one's forcing you.

[Caroline]

No one's forcing you.

[Shen Cowney]

You can close the book.

[Caroline]

What's wrong with you?

[Shen Cowney]

Oh, yeah. Some of those reviews. I've definitely read reviews where someone's been like, I would have liked this book, but it just comes from a really sort of like, female British perspective, clearly an American writer. And I'm like, well, it's a female British author, so, like, what are you expecting?

[Caroline]

Who forced you, bitch?

[Shen Cowney]

She's not gonna write like she's a horse or something or like, she's Canadian. Like, this is.

[Caroline]

That's the writer.

[Shen Cowney]

What's wrong with you?

[Caroline]

What's wrong with you?

[Shen Cowney]

I find those ones also sometimes it's very delightful to read a bad review. Sometimes you're just like, you're really dumb. And I don't agree you. Which is also very satisfying in its own way.

[Caroline]

You were dumb.

[Shen Cowney]

Is this the most intellectual we've got on Continental garbage? I think we discussed books at all all summer.

[Caroline]

I feel so stimulated. Oh, my God. So we're going through book reviewers, we're going through all the medias. We've done music, we've done tv, we've done books. The world of sports, perhaps.

[Shen Cowney]

I know it happened a lot this summer.

[Caroline]

I mean, the only. So basically, when we were researching this episode, we asked. We reawoken my head night WhatsApp group, which is filled with, like, It's a real brain trust, if you would be.

[Shen Cowney]

It really is. It's one of those ones where you're like, oh, wow, there's a lot of people with a lot of thoughts in here. And they're all very smart and funny, and anytime you write anything in it you have to be like, am I smart and funny enough to be able to write in this brain stress? I don't know.

[Caroline]

I remember feeling like at my henight in that, like, underground karaoke bar, I was like, if a bomb went off in this underground karaoke bar, it would be on the front page of the Guardian. I mean, obviously, if any bomb went off in London, it'd be. But I was like, but specifically because of the people in this karaoke, there.

[Shen Cowney]

Would be an added level of karaki cultural resonance to it. Yeah, but. So you made this group and you promised when you made it, you're like, this will not be one of those groups that persists. It will just be a one and done. But actually it's persisted and only every now and then.

[Caroline]

Every now and then. But generally when somebody wants to consult, not because everyone's like, remember this and, like, treasured moments. It's more like, hey, everyone, this is a group of smart people. Please. An opinion. And then the opinions come thick and fast.

[Shen Cowney]

And I woke up on the morning of our event to, I think, like, 150 messages. The detailed and exciting dissection of Summer of Bops, which, honestly, I think we could just have done a live reading of that message, a dramatic reading.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

And it would have been so good. But another thing that was mentioned was gymnasts. I love you, Tessa Coates.

[Caroline]

So Tessa Coates, who I think we've mentioned quite a few times on the podcast, we love Tessa Coates. We love Tessa Coates, who did the Bring it on episode. And because she is a retired cheerleader, she also has a keen interest in gymnasts and that as a sport. And what she said was, I'm not gonna scroll back and find it. But essentially that, like, for the longest time, the industry standard for gymnasts was sort of teenagers, generally Russian, 16 years.

[Shen Cowney]

Old, retiring at 17.

[Caroline]

Yeah, exactly. And they were not characters, really. And they were just sort of like, they kind of came through and they would do an Olympics and they would be gone again kind of thing. And this sort of. With Simone Biles and her entire cohort. This is like such an exciting time for the sport. Just because, like, I think she said, like, almost every person on that mat is responsible for putting someone in prison. Like, they have, like, all their trainers who like, yeah, we're just awful, awful men.

[Shen Cowney]

Yeah, A very empowering moment. And they're just all very strong and unashamedly strong. It's not like, oh, look at me, I'm a tiny little, sort of like little 14 year old teenager. They're like. They're grown women in their 30s who can do incredible things that I can't even imagine, like, looking at a gymnast routine and being like, I could probably, like. And it's invented some of those moves. I don't know.

[Caroline]

It's fascinating because I keep thinking about, like, how. And again, it goes back to our earlier conversation about how when an ecosystem is really healthy and when people keep on trying to outdo their peers and, like, when the competition is really healthy, how much elevated something becomes. And, like, if you look back at, like, you know, boxers in the 1920s, it's always like, this is Jack O'Leary, and he's the featherweight. And you, like, look at him. You're like, I could fucking take Jack O'Leary. And then you look at boxers today, and they're just massive. And it's like a similar thing feels like it's happening in female sport, even though I really don't follow it. So I can't. I can't really comment in detail. I'm just sort of on a. I'm standing back from the whole painting here. It feels like for the really, really long time, women were really asked to not just perform their sport, but perform their gender through their sport. And, like, so much of that was, like, in, you know, ice skating and all that kind of stuff. And now it's like that is being pushed to one side. It's like they just get to be fucking huge and hench and swole and that's powerful and cool, and other women love them, and the culture loves them, and it's amazing.

[Shen Cowney]

It's been a great summer.

[Caroline]

I mean, yeah, it's been a great summer. Like, obviously, the world is falling apart, but if we can just measure time in the space of the summers of you and the friends and the people.

[Shen Cowney]

That you love, it's a great summer for vibes.

[Caroline]

It's a great summer for vibes. You know, and sometimes it feels irresponsible saying that because.

[Shen Cowney]

Yes, because there are many terrible things happening in the world.

[Caroline]

There are many terrible things. And I know I don't talk about them on this podcast because I.

[Shen Cowney]

This is not the podcast for political commentary.

[Caroline]

Exactly. And I also trust that, like, all my listeners are conscientious, you know, women in their sort of twenties to forties or whatever, who are smart, engaged, donating, doing the things, and they just need just but one space, but one little space where they can just be silly about Blake Lively.

[Shen Cowney]

Right. You know, and that's what this summer has been A little space carved out in a world that's otherwise rapidly going to shit.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Shen Cowney]

Some bops, some vibes.

[Caroline]

It's okay to acknowledge I've had a lovely time. It is.

[Shen Cowney]

I've had a lovely time, too.

[Caroline]

Yeah, lovely, lovely.

[Shen Cowney]

I feel. I feel very sad that we're ending this, but also, I feel like, as we always say, leave when you're still having fun.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Yeah. And also this will be.

[Shen Cowney]

I'll probably come back and talk about some stuff at some point in future.

[Caroline]

Oh, my God. The amount when we did the signing on Thursday night, the amount that people just kept coming up being, like, genuine, you have to stay. You have to stay.

[Shen Cowney]

I was like, it's not really my decision, my friends.

[Caroline]

Yeah. It's like, you were.

[Shen Cowney]

I got to write. I endorsed this book on several of your books. I was so excited.

[Caroline]

It was so nice. It was so nice. And, of course, I mean, I fully predict there's going to be more, like, miniseries with you in them. And, you know, we'll go to different places. Somebody invited us to Charleston.

[Shen Cowney]

They did. I was like, yeah, I'd go do Charleston garbage.

[Caroline]

And I said to them, I was like, literally, if you can cover the flights, we'll be there. Like, if you have a literary festival that does live podcasts, we'll do it.

[Shen Cowney]

We'll do anything.

[Caroline]

I don't have a baby yet, so take us.

[Shen Cowney]

We'll fly.

[Caroline]

We'll do it again. Once again, if you are a country.

[Shen Cowney]

You'Re a country or a place.

[Caroline]

And if you can even minorly financially incentivize me and Jen coming. We'll do a miniseries about your country.

[Shen Cowney]

We will do that. We will be so nice about your country.

[Caroline]

We'll do that.

[Shen Cowney]

Wherever it is.

[Caroline]

And now Gav's coming back. I think I can hear him at the door.

[Shen Cowney]

Gav's coming back.

[Caroline]

Which means it's time for dinner.

[Shen Cowney]

It means it's time for dinner.

[Caroline]

Oh, my God. Can we finish this with Gav coming on the mic? Yes.

[Shen Cowney]

Gav, get in here.

[Caroline]

Gav, can you, like, we just. We're literally just finishing up. Do you want to come in and say something? We've thanked you already for being so cool about us traveling.

[Gavin]

Oh, I'm really being put on the spot here.

[Caroline]

I know. You really are.

[Gavin]

Okay, so have you described the physical surroundings that we're currently in? You're looking lovely in lovely green dress. Jenna's sitting here with her legs crossed, looking gorgeous. I feel like a slug, but I think I'm glad to have you back. Home after a season away on the continent. And now we're gonna go out and eat fish and get pissed.

[Caroline]

Can I ask you what your highlight of the summer was? That was such a bad summer for men. Oh, my God, I'm so sorry no one prepared you for this.

[Gavin]

I mean. I mean, on a really, like, selfish level. It's been the best summer of my life, I think.

[Caroline]

Please speak more.

[Shen Cowney]

And even though you're a man, even.

[Gavin]

Though you're a man, he's been great for me. For me this summer. I feel like it's been like a culmination of, like, when you get to your mid to late 30s, it's like a lot of the work and the time that you've put into your friendships and all of the years that could go one way or the other. And I feel like all the seeds that I've thrown out over the last 10 years have started to blossom over the last sort of few months. And it's happening for you as well and. Yeah, and Jen's. Jen as well. And everyone's happy and I just feel like, you know, what a great way to end the pot.

[Caroline]

This is. This is. This is. We kept wondering how we would end it, what would. The last thing we would say, but I think this is it.

[Gavin]

I'm going out on a limb here. Is this all right?

[Caroline]

So perfect.

[Shen Cowney]

That was the summer.

[Caroline]

That was everyone. That was Gav. That was Gav, Ivan, Caroline.

[Shen Cowney]

I've been Jen.

[Caroline]

Happy summer, everyone.

[Shen Cowney]

Happy summer. Happy autumn too.

[Caroline]

Happy Autumn too. Bye. Bye.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Renew your health and wellness purpose this new year with the reset on Aloe Moves, a curated weekly program of Pilates strength and step goals to kickstart your fitness journey. It's a 30 day, week by week program. Three days of Pilates, two days of strength and 8,000 daily steps, plus bonus nutrition tips from Sakara. Plus for only $99, you get a year's worth of access to Allomoves on demand. Full studio experience wherever you are. Get moving today at alomoves.

[Caroline]

Com.