Friends Thru A Lens: Weddings with Kate Young

Summary

Podcast Summary: Sentimental Garbage

Episode: Friends Thru A Lens: Weddings with Kate Young

Date: November 6, 2025
Host: Caroline O'Donoghue (Kalya Donahue in transcript)
Guest: Kate Young

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Main Theme

In this engaging and affectionate episode, the hosts use Kate Young’s former wedding caterer expertise to deep-dive into the cultural, emotional, and narrative significance of weddings in the TV series Friends. By analyzing each of the show’s major wedding episodes, they blend personal anecdotes, professional insight, and pop culture analysis to both celebrate and critique how the sitcom shaped (and was shaped by) our ideas of love, friendship, and ritual.

The episode is structured around a ranked evaluation of the Friends weddings — using a custom scoring system — but also becomes a wider conversation on 90s/2000s cultural milestones, evolving attitudes toward marriage and queerness, and the enduring comfort of network TV.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kate Young's Wedding Expertise

• Background: Kate has catered 31 weddings over the past decade (03:05).
• Independent Catering: All the weddings were “dry hire” — requiring her team to set up makeshift kitchens and become very personally involved with each couple (03:05-04:34).
• Emotional Impact: Despite the stress, Kate admits, “I've never been to a wedding and not cried...I'm eternally moved by weddings. I am such a fan of a wedding.” (04:52).

2. Why Friends, and Why Weddings?

• Both hosts are lifelong TV obsessives, and Friends is a touchstone for them ("There has never been a time that I didn't know the entire plot of the show," - Kate, 09:53).
• They lay out the emotional function of weddings in real life and on sitcoms (“People aren’t convening for birthdays anymore...there’s such a joy to all be together to have this one thing to focus on as a gang.” - Kalya, 05:50).

3. The “Lens” and Scoring System

Introducing the criteria for ranking (14:30):

• FOMO: How much would they want to be at this wedding as a guest?
• Style: Visuals, outfits, décor, and overall aesthetic (15:17).
• Narrative: Importance and impact in the overarching storyline (17:00).

“Weddings are the things that date the most.” – Kalya, (15:49)

Each wedding is rated out of 10 on each category and ranked by the average.

4. Honorable Mentions (21:25)

Rachel’s Non-Wedding in the Pilot (21:30)

• Iconic dress ("It looks like it should be Rachel’s dress. It looks like a Grace Kelly dress." – Kalya, 22:14).

Ross and Rachel’s Vegas Elopement (23:46)

• Comedic high point, but quickly brushed away (“They're so drunk, they're both vomiting at different corners outside.” – Kate, 25:05).

Cousin Franny’s Wedding / The Cheesecake Episode

• Not narratively significant but a fun side note (25:09).

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In-Depth Wedding Rankings

5. Monica & Chandler’s Wedding

Episodes: Season 7, Ep. 23-24
Average Score: 3.33

Style (26:29)

• Both hosts dislike Monica’s look: “Her look...Nothing goes together. The dress is basic...boring.” (27:01)
• Inauthentic to Monica’s character: “She would obviously have a hair and makeup person...may, what are you doing?” (26:35)
• “The veil has about five pearls...It's so a non-choice.” (29:22)

Narrative (32:20)

• The invented drama (Chandler’s cold feet) doesn’t ring true.
• Real emotional payoff is Rachel’s pregnancy reveal, not the wedding itself: “Rachel is the main character…It's a camera. Zoom in on Rachel’s face.” (34:26)

FOMO (45:55)

• "We don’t want to be there. FOMO is 2…Rather be anywhere else.” (46:04)
• Guest list feels soulless, “filled with people and children...the oldest person I’ve ever seen.” (43:28)

Notable Quote

“It does not feel like a real celebration of these two characters. Unlike, I would say, their engagement…” – Kate, (42:08)

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4. Barry & Mindy’s Wedding

Episodes: Season 2 finale
Average Score: 5.33

Style (47:25)

• “On a realistic side of mental for the time.” (47:47)
• Mindy’s dress: “A cunty but elegant dress…she looks so, so good.” (48:05)

Narrative (53:57)

• Rachel’s “fuck you” speech and Copacabana performance signals her break from her old life: “She is going back and performing a thing that she might once have performed when she was like...14 years old.” (52:55)
• Ties up the Rachel/Barry/Mindy thread for good.

FOMO (59:48)

• “We’re a 2 for FOMO. If we miss this, we’re not that sad…” (59:52)

Notable Quote

“It's narratively really satisfying, which is why we have given it an eight for narrative satisfaction.” – Kate, (59:29)

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3. Carol & Susan’s Wedding

Episodes: Season 2, “The One with the Lesbian Wedding”
Average Score: 6.66

Style (62:30)

• "...Mad Hatters tea party of hats...Weird velvet crushing washed velvet hats. It's weird." (62:30)
• Otherwise, room and guests feel “fun, welcoming – big boos at that wedding. Can’t wait to meet all those lesbians.” (79:19)

FOMO (79:19)

• Top score: “I want to be in that room.” (79:19)

Narrative (65:46–75:16)

• Queer History: First lesbian wedding on network primetime TV (75:35), profound in context of the 1990s’ anti-gay legal climate.

“It is a wedding but it's also like, it's hugely symbolic. It does not have any legal standing..." – Kate, (65:50)

• Tender moments, e.g., Carol asking Ross to give her away when her parents refuse to attend (64:37).
• “The wedding is a big deal for Ross in the same way Barry and Mindy’s is for Rachel.” (79:57)

Notable Quote

“It was illegal to be gay in my lifetime where I grew up. And same for you…This is now 30 years ago.” – Kate, (73:40)

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2. Phoebe & Mike’s Wedding

Episodes: Season 10, “The One with Phoebe’s Wedding”
Average Score: 8.33

Style (86:55)

• “Styling is the best of all…Those bridesmaids’ dresses are phenomenal…Phoebe looks unbelievable.” (87:10)
• Winter New York wedding, cozy yet glamorous, “Vivienne Westwood dresses...sequined but bust sort of situation” (87:26-87:32)

FOMO (108:10)

• "Want to be in the snow...want to be there...I don’t know what they do afterwards but I want to be there." (108:10).

Narrative (105:31)

• Phoebe’s vulnerability: "You are my family. Oh and I forgot I love you. And you have nice eyes.” (105:25)
• Significance for single/unconventional folks: “Joey is Phoebe’s person...single and childless but family are their friends...aspirational.” (92:43)
• “Phoebe gets a real moment to be a romantic lead, which she never gets.” (106:40)

Notable Quotes

“To evolve from a Monica into a Joey...I feel very close to Joey in this episode. I feel very close to this sense of, like, expansiveness.” – Kate, (98:01)

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1. Ross & Emily’s Wedding

Episodes: Season 4 finale, “The One with Ross’s Wedding (London)”
Average Score: 9.33 (Winner)

Style (110:24)

• “The wedding that launched a thousand fairy lights. It is so romantic. It’s so beautiful.” (110:24–110:32)
• Venue: Stunning, candle-lit old chapel, “...the conversation is kind of like, you’ve got people flying from home. You can’t get married. It’s today.” (110:42)

FOMO (123:31)

• “We want to be in the corner eating steak, talking about this…A wedding you would talk about for the rest of your life.” (123:31–123:45)

Narrative (109:05)

• Dramatic stakes: “I take thee, Rachel”—one of the most iconic TV moments.
• Turning point for all main characters: Monica and Chandler begin their relationship, Rachel’s heartbreak, Phoebe’s pregnancy, Joey’s tourist joy, Ross’s world falling apart.
• “Drama stakes could not be higher.” (122:36)
• Authentic emotional resonance: “She can do it for someone else, but can’t do it for her.” (111:27)

Notable Quotes

“Even if I’d never seen this episode, I would have known the words ‘I take thee, Rachel.’ And yet it still…every time I’m like—yeah.” (109:16) “It’s so romantic that the conversation is...you've got people flying from home...it has to be today.” (110:42)

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Other Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On David Schwimmer as an actor and person:
  “His physical comedy is so good...Everything I’ve ever heard about David Schwimmer has been so overwhelmingly positive.” (19:09–19:44)

• On millennial friendship & aging:
  “As you get into your 30s, the amount of vacations you have when your pals are all together are so rare.” (05:44)

• On the queer origins of much of Friends’ humor and limitations of the era:
  “Neither homophobia nor racism nor prejudice of any kind is a monolith… Allyship is a verb.” (76:32–77:43)

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Final Section: If Ross & Rachel Had Married in Season 11

Speculation on their hypothetical wedding:

• Not a big Plaza wedding, but something small, possibly a beach wedding ("I think the beach wedding of it rather than the Plaza is the correct thing...They are not performing this. We are together and we are taking this seriously." – Kate, 127:06).
• Rachel would wear something chic and non-traditional ("Short dress...not white, maybe blush, halter or off-white Halston." – 125:32).
• Narrative drama likely about Monica’s anxiety of being left out after moving to the suburbs (“I'm Rachel's best friend, actually!” –129:38).
• Embracing the looseness and flexibility of friendship in your 30s, instead of viewing new friend bonds with suspicion (“The greatest thing you could hope for is all your friends become friends.” – 130:49).

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

The tone is witty, warm, nostalgic, and reflective, blending pop culture insight, personal stories, and a loving but honest critique of both TV and real-life wedding culture. The legacy of Friends is seen through the heart, not just the head:

“We don’t know the most, we feel the most.”

Listeners are left with:

• A new appreciation for Friends’ place in 90s/2000s culture
• Insight into how weddings, friendship, and love evolve with age and circumstance
• The enduring tenderness of chosen family—whether on TV or in our lives

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Timestamps: Key Segments

• 03:05 – Kate’s wedding experience & “dry hire” catering
• 14:30 – Introducing wedding ranking system
• 21:25 – Honorable Mentions recap
• 26:07 – Monica & Chandler’s wedding analysis
• 47:00 – Barry & Mindy’s wedding analysis
• 62:17 – Carol & Susan’s wedding analysis & 90s LGBTQ+ history
• 86:36 – Phoebe & Mike’s wedding: friendship, found family, singlehood
• 108:52 – Ross & Emily’s wedding: style, drama, the ultimate Friends moment
• 124:18 – Speculation: What would a Ross & Rachel wedding be?

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Standout Quotes (With Timestamps)

• “I've never been to a wedding and not cried...I'm eternally moved by weddings.” – Kate Young (04:52)
• "Weddings are the things that date the most." – Kalya Donahue (15:49)
• “It does not feel like a real celebration of these two characters. Unlike...their engagement.” – Kate Young (42:08)
• “It is a wedding but it’s also...hugely symbolic. It does not have any legal standing...” – Kate Young (65:50)
• "Allyship is a verb. It is not a label you get to give yourself." — Kate Young (77:43)
• “To evolve from a Monica into a Joey...I feel very close to Joey in this episode. I feel very close to this sense of expansiveness.” – Kate Young (98:01)
• "Even if I'd never seen this episode, I would have known the words, ‘I take thee, Rachel.’ And yet it still...every time I'm like, yeah." – Kate Young (109:16)

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A must-listen for fans of Friends, the culture of weddings, and anyone who treasures the messy, funny, loving chaos that is found family.

Transcript

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[Kate Young]

You look the same.

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[Kalya Donahue]

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[Kalya Donahue]

Hello and welcome to Friends through a Lens, the podcast where I, Kalya Donahue, talk about the aspects of the show Friends through a specific lens with one of my real life friends. And today we're talking about the weddings of friends with former wedding caterer and my friend Kate Young.

[Kate Young]

Hello.

[Kalya Donahue]

Who wants to hear me say the word friend again?

[Kate Young]

That was really good. Very satisfying. Rhyming pattern. I loved it. It was great.

[Kalya Donahue]

Kate, I am shaking with excitement. The adrenaline is coursing through my body because, I mean, this always feels the same after, you know, whenever I do kind of a little miniseries on the podcast, but this one is like quite, quite different. Right? Because you, like. We started talking, you and I, about how we'd love to bring your sort of former wedding caterer expertise to. To a podcast episode. We've already done one about weddings. We've done two about weddings before.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

And then we stumbled on Friends because you know a ton about friends. It is true that I was about to become really clear. And then I was like, oh, how good would it be if we did a whole miniseries of podcast where I look at friends through the expertise of different people in my life.

[Kate Young]

And what is so nice is the knowledge that I'm going to listen to the shit out of every other episode and it's going to be so good. Like, I'm great. I'm so happy to be here recording today. I also cannot wait for every other episode.

[Kalya Donahue]

You're the flagship episode.

[Kate Young]

I'm really excited. I'm really excited. Weddings are a big deal. Flagship events.

[Kalya Donahue]

Before we go any further, let's talk a bit about your expertise in this area.

[Kate Young]

I have not been married, so I'm coming to this as very much from either a guest or very much involved staff member of weddings. I have catered, I think Liv and I counted it up and I think I've catered 31 weddings over the past, I guess, decade I did my. It's. It's actually. It is summer 2015.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

That I did my first one and it's now summer 25. Well, it's autumn, but like. Yeah. So it's been 10 years.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's interesting because when you say like 31, it doesn't sound like that many.

[Kate Young]

No, it doesn't, does it?

[Kalya Donahue]

But then I really put that through my head of how much prep goes into every wedding I've ever been to, even weddings that I am not in. Like, I don't have a role in.

[Kate Young]

Oh, sure.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's still a week of prep.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

Like adding it all together. It's like, how are we getting there? How are we renting the car? When I think about feeding sort of like 60 to 160 people.

[Kate Young]

And it's the kind of the magic thing of you have a real relationship with people whose weddings you cater. So some of them we met like, relatively, you know, close to the wedding date. Either they had found a venue, it was free and we were free and it was fine and we just like, ran with it. But some of those couples we'd had a relationship with for sort of 18 months, by the time we were catering their wedding, they'd come to my house or Liv's house. Liv is my catering partner. And they'd come to our house and we'd fed them dinner and we'd got notes from them about things that they liked and things they didn't and things they would prefer or things they wanted to change. And then we're in touch with them through the whole thing. And we essentially. All of the weddings that we did were dry hire events, which is a term that I know we have discussed in the past, which is essentially you arrive into a field or a community hall or a, you know, a space somewhere that is not set up with a professional kitchen already. Yeah, it's not set up with necessarily a bar or anything else that's being run. And you arrive and you build a kitchen and a.

[Kalya Donahue]

Like building a set for a TV show or something.

[Kate Young]

Exactly. So you are. You're very involved because you're not just rocking up on the day with food that you've prepared. You're kind of having a big conversation with them about where the running water is going to come from and what the generator needs that you have are, and how. How much their friends drink and how enthusiastic they're going to be about wine verse, beer, verse, spirits. Like, all of that was stuff that we were doing. So you were really involved in all of these Big events.

[Kalya Donahue]

Gosh, that is so much. And yeah, I thought because. Yeah, because you're an independent caterer. It's not like you're the plug in and play for a hotel or something. So anyone who's coming to you.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

Has a very specific idea for their wedding. Specific location.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

So, like, you're not like somebody who's.

[Kate Young]

Like, we're not doing the same meal at every wedding. We never did the same menu twice. We are, like, consulting with people and talking to them about exactly what they want. I've never been to a wedding and not cried. And that does include the ones where I'm kind of really up against it, really panicked about the thing that we have to do in about 15 minutes time, if the speeches are happening or there's a moment outside that you catch between the bride and the groom or like, there's just. There's so many different bits that have just made me cry over the years. And I. I'm eternally moved by weddings. I am such a fan of a wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

I'm a big shill for love and romantic love.

[Kalya Donahue]

I love you saying this because I've noticed this on, you know, sort of comedians, tiktoks and things that have. And like, recordings of comedy podcasts that have come my way recently where people are like, let's just all admit going to a wedding fucking sucks. And it's like, it's so expensive. Blah, blah, blah. I thought it was like, that is such a mid-20s tank.

[Kate Young]

It really is.

[Kalya Donahue]

You're in your 30s. The amount of vacations you have when your pals are all together are so rare.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, totally.

[Kalya Donahue]

People aren't, like, necessarily convening for birthday parties anymore because people live in different places now, of course.

[Kate Young]

And it's such a joy to all be together to have this one thing to focus on as a gang. And there's such sort of narratively important moments in all of our lives for friend groups and so much law and sense of community and sense of who we are as a gang comes from those big times that you go to another country or to the same country or to a big house or to a field or to a, you know, a big hall or a church or wherever you're going. There is something about all gathering there and then spending a day just being like, let's revel in how much we all love each other.

[Kalya Donahue]

Totally. And I think I feel particularly lucky because. I don't know. I don't know. Lucky. It's just the circumstance that it is because all of My friends tend to be in the arts. They have all therefore gotten married in their mid to late 30s.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And so there is a kind of. It's less chances for, you know, interpersonal pettiness. There's always some at a wedding, but in terms of, like, you didn't choose the right color for the bridesmaid's dress, and now I'm mad at you kind of thing, that stuff isn't happening anymore.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Everyone's just really thrilled to be there and really in love with each other.

[Kalya Donahue]

And we're also the part of life where, like, hard things are beginning to happen. Like, people's careers getting more challenging, people's parents are going to get ill. That kind of.

[Kate Young]

People are having kids and, like, navigating that alongside their work. And. And it is just.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's hot. It's tricky. It can be very tricky. You know, different levels of tricky for different people, but whatever. But, like, therefore, having an event that is centered around optimism is really important.

[Kate Young]

It's just a real, like, mark of hope and joy and future, like, success together.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And that's really nice.

[Kalya Donahue]

Love a wedding.

[Kate Young]

Love a wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

So we know about your relationship to weddings.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

What is your relationship to friends?

[Kate Young]

I love network television. I was telling you this right before we started recording. I. We. I grew up in a very TV household. I'm a big books person. I read a lot of books. I write books. That is what I do. And I think my public Persona is very. She reads all the time. And what is actually true is I watch a lot of television. Television is my jam. I love it. I love it as this.

[Kalya Donahue]

Sorry to interrupt, but this sort of, like, thing that's out there about people who were bookish kids being, like, the thing. They've all this kind of Matilda, sort of alone under an apple tree reading a book. It's like, no, the kids who are readers are the kids who didn't like what was on TV at that hour.

[Kate Young]

At that hour and were like, I must go find something else.

[Kalya Donahue]

I'm watching wrestling. I'm going upstairs and reading.

[Kate Young]

There's only one TV in the house, and it's not good.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, it's so bad. It's not like the TV child and the books child are not diametrically opposed people.

[Kate Young]

They're not diametrically opposed people.

[Kalya Donahue]

Story is story, baby.

[Kate Young]

That is very much my feeling on it. And I particularly love and have always loved, like, patterns and systems and numbers. And so what I love is network television. I love, like, particularly American Network television is 24 episodes in a season. I love knowing that the Thanksgiving episode of Friends is going to be like about episode eight or nine, because it's that time. It will have come out in November. That's when we're. That's when we're aiming for. I know that the end of season is going to be some big moment and some big event because they need you to come back in September. I love the pattern and the flow of it. And even though the seasons were different in Australia, so our summer was when their winter was. It is. It's still a thing where I just feel like I really followed people. And this is true of Friends and lots of other network TV that I watched and loved. But I had a really great relationship with Friends. I. I probably started watching. I was trying to think the other day where I came in at. And what is mad is that there's just no way my brain will let me acknowledge a time when I didn't know the entire plot of the show. But I know that I probably started watching it about season four or five because that would have been the age that I was watching it at my dad's. But my sister and I, there's a chain called Blockbuster Video. Was that here as well? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was there.

[Kalya Donahue]

I think Blockbuster was a global. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Blockbuster video did $1 Wednesdays in Australia and Luce and I would go and we would get an entire season of Friends and for that week we would watch.

[Kalya Donahue]

I remember those VHS sets so well.

[Kate Young]

So I must have filled in the gaps over the years. But certainly there feels as though there has never been a time that I didn't know the entire plot of the 10 seasons. It has very much been present in my life for good. And it is a thing that I still will happily watch any day, anytime, with any pal. And I watch it knowing, like, I don't think it's particularly interesting to talk about the ways in which it's dated or aged. I'm not here for a massive conversation about that. Apart from. I think we will probably address some aspects of yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

As they're relevant to these weddings.

[Kate Young]

As they're relevant to these weddings. But like, on the whole, I think it is both superbly written, incredibly funny, beautifully performed, and there is no other show where I more want to be on set hanging out with those people. They looked like they had fun together and that they were really delighting in each other, both as characters and as actors. And that is a joy to watch. And it's chemistry that I just don't think has ever been repeated.

[Kalya Donahue]

I think I really agree. And like, I know the cool thing to be. It's cooler to be into Seinfeld. Sure. It's even cooler to be into 30 Rock. And I love those shows.

[Kate Young]

I love them.

[Kalya Donahue]

But very. Nothing has my sitcom heart like Friends has it. And I love a lot of. Because I'm the exact same as you that like the kind of the repetition and the familiarity of sitcom relationships really does. I feel very emotional about it, you know. And something Taffy Ackner said recently on the podcast about. And just like that, where she was defending and just like that, where she said, you know, obviously there are parts of it that are bad. But she was like, you can't make.

[Kate Young]

Old friends such a good thing to say.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's so true. True. Because that thing of like your TV is heaving with charming, well written, well acted, beautiful friendships that they want to show you exactly what, what they, you know, whatever. And they are one season or they are two seasons and then they are cancele or they are deleted off the streamer because of her attacks. Write off or whatever. And like replicating that relationship with TV characters where you know them for a decade, the way we have with Frasier, the way we have Parks and Rec, all these things is like we didn't realize how difficult a thing that is to replicate when we threw it away, you know, and we have kind of thrown away. I know we have things like Abbott elementary and stuff. But because of the way TV works now, it's never gonna have the. The international spread. No depth of relationship because there are just too many things begging for.

[Kate Young]

And appointment viewing just isn't a thing anymore. And it really was with Friends. Like I remember being at school and having to have watched it on TV the night before. And if we were out for some reason we put it on vhs, we'd set the VCR to record it. I'd be behind on the conversation. Like it was truly water cooler in the schoolyard.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Conversation. Totally. It was the only thing that was on a Monday night in Ireland. And it was the only thing that me and my brother were allowed to stay up past nine for when we were really small. Like it was such a family event. And like when I think about watching Friends, I just think about the sort of that coziness of the family living room and the smell of my mum's ironing starch and sort of tea and scones and sort of like a little snack before bed. And it just. Everything about it is so deeply in, like, the coziest memories of my childhood, you know?

[Kate Young]

Me too. Yeah. It's really me and my sister on a sofa together because we were either at my dad's or at my mum's. And we were allowed to watch it at my dad's about a year earlier, I think my mom was a bit more like, I'm just going to see what this is and whether it's appropriate for you to be watching. But my dad was like, yeah, no, this. This makes sense. We're watching it and we're laughing. And it was a thing we all watched together as a family.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And it's me and my sister sitting in front of the sofa.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Like, heads against the back of the sofa and dad and Cheryl on the sofa. And like, it's. It was a real family thing. Yeah, it was really nice. And it's still a thing that when my sister and I are sort of together and doing a thing, we'll often, like, chuck on an episode while we're getting ready for something or whatever. It's like a thing that we've really kept as a. As a language.

[Kalya Donahue]

Totally. And it remains a. I think that. And the Simpsons are big time foundational linguistic codes of millennial life.

[Kate Young]

You know, it's that thing where you just realize that all. So many of the things that we all say and the references we have and the things that we share are. Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

There's something Ella always says because she. She was the child under the apple tree with her book and her parents didn't have a TV until she was like 12 or something. And she was like, I finally watched the Simpsons and I found out my friends aren't as funny.

[Kate Young]

As funny as I thought. This has got good memories. And I'll watch the same thing 19 times.

[Kalya Donahue]

Okay, so as far as our approach today.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

We're not just talking about the weddings of friends. We are ranking the weddings of friends. And we have sat in this room and we have watched all of these episodes together.

[Kate Young]

We have.

[Kalya Donahue]

And we have a numerical scoring process.

[Kate Young]

We do.

[Kalya Donahue]

This won't be the same for every episode of Friends through a lens, but Kate really likes numbers.

[Kate Young]

I love numbers. I really do.

[Kalya Donahue]

But before we get into it, I would like you to talk us through our scoring system.

[Kate Young]

So our scoring system is. Thus. We have gone in on three categories that have all been equally weighted. So fomo, how much do specifically you and I wish to be there?

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

This is our weddings that we don't want to be missing.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes. All those scenes of parties and friends, where they just have. Dial a friend. They just have random people who are chucked in there. Imagine you are one of those in randos.

[Kate Young]

One of the chucked in randos.

[Kalya Donahue]

How much do you want to be at this wedding? The FOMO score.

[Kate Young]

The FOMO score. The style points. So style points is a very visual language. So we're talking outfits, we're talking the room, we're talking the energy of the guests. We're talking like, what's happening in the aesthetics of the wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

And how. And how much do we enjoy that?

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes. Or even. How much do we. Even though it's not our taste.

[Kate Young]

Yes. How much we have time together. Yeah. And also how much does it. Is it perhaps reflective of a time? Yes. Because some of the weddings have perhaps dated, but they feel.

[Kalya Donahue]

Well, weddings. Very true. Weddings are the things that date the most.

[Kate Young]

They date the most. They're very trend. It's impossible to get out of the sort of, you know, capitalist construct of like, the wedding industrial complex is a thing for a reason. There's a huge sort of groundswell of pushing you towards a certain kind of wedding or a certain kind of vibe or a certain kind of attitude. And it's. It's because that's what's on offer at the time. And you can step outside of that. But like.

[Kalya Donahue]

But even if you say, if you're like, you want. You. You don't want a hotel ballroom, that means you want some kind of countryside thing. And then that silos you into fairy lights, hay bales. You know, it's kind of. It's very difficult to get out of these very strict silos of different kinds of wedding you can have. There are basically four, you know, beach, field, hotel.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. And for most people, it's a thing they're only gonna do once.

[Kalya Donahue]

And they want to do it.

[Kate Young]

They certainly are planning it, hoping that they are only going to do it once.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And so they want to do it. Right. And with the vision in mind that they've had for that particular space. Or.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And I think. Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

If.

[Kate Young]

If you had a wedding every year, like you had a birthday, you'd go with loads of different themes.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And you'd go with loads of different styles.

[Kalya Donahue]

But mostly, mostly you want to go with what works.

[Kate Young]

You want to go with what works. And also what. Like. Yeah. What works for you and for your family and your friends and everybody else, and what space you can imagine best hanging out with all of them.

[Kalya Donahue]

Right. And something else that's interesting about wedding trends is That I feel like they were something that used to move far slower. Wedding trends. Like, I think there's. There's a real 20 years of cinema and television where you could turn it on. If it's in Britain, you were seeing a very specific thing.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And if, you know. And it would be like, you know, church puffiness, four weddings and a funeral. Exactly. And. And I feel like that trend that looked like that for 20 years and then with the advent of the Internet and with more online shopping and all these things just. It sort of. It changed far quicker. It feels like people are already making fun of millennial barn weddings from seven years ago.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, right. It is dating. So style is a thing that we thought was important to discuss. And the final one is narrative, because this is a sitcom. And we wanted to talk about, like, the narrative weight and importance of these episodes and what they sort of offer in the larger story of Friends. The story of Rachel, a woman who comes to New York.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And all of the story of essentially.

[Kalya Donahue]

A girl runs out on her wedding and takes solace in her abandoned friend from school and then immerses herself into that group and begins her sort of hero's journey from, like, spoiled Long island.

[Kate Young]

Princess to waitress to fashion to successful woman with baby and man.

[Kalya Donahue]

They are all the main character. But I feel like it was sold on the premise of. Okay, it's a show about six friends, but what else? What's the engine? And they're like, well, there's Rachel.

[Kate Young]

There's Rachel. She's run out of her wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Exactly.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. They're all the main character, but it is her framing.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

The story is the sort of 10 arc starts with her and it ends with her. It starts the series arc narrative is. Is her beginning and end. And so, yes, they can all be the main character, but she is definitely the story driver.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fascinating.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. The shape of it would be different if it was Monica's story.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Like, we'd come to the story at a different point. Maybe when she moved to New York, we might like when she started being a chef or when she first got there. And maybe we're doing it from a different point. If it's Ross's or whatever else.

[Kalya Donahue]

So true. It's a very subtle thing.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's like, I would say few Friends fans would disagree.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Yeah. I think that it's. And it's all down to David Schwimmer for them being like, you wanted to pay us more in season three. They were gonna pay him. And Jennifer Aniston more. And he was like, let's all negotiate, guys. We're a team.

[Kalya Donahue]

Everything I've ever heard about David Schwimmer has been so overwhelmingly positive.

[Kate Young]

So positive.

[Kalya Donahue]

What a guy. What a guy. Because he also pushed to have girlfriends of color. Yeah, famously. And there's the wage thing. But also, I have a friend who, after her book launch, they went to the Pink Chihuahua in soho, you know, that Mexican restaurant with the dance floor in the basement. And for some reason, David Schwimmer was there. I hope she's okay with me telling the story. I'm not saying her name. And they had a dance. She said he was the best dancer I have ever. And, like, you know.

[Kate Young]

Oh, my God, that's such a nice thing to know.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. Yeah. My thing about David Schwimmer is that I will never stop being angry that nobody cast him in, like, a Buster Keaton biopic.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Wouldn't he be great?

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

The face and the physical acting.

[Kate Young]

His physical comedy is so good.

[Kalya Donahue]

I am always thinking about the parallel universe where that happened. And I wrote it anyway. We have to bend time and space for that. But David, if you're out there.

[Kate Young]

David, if you're out there. So we are going. So what we've done with those three categories is that we have given each of them a score out of 10 for each wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

And then we have averaged those scores.

[Kalya Donahue]

And using those scores, we have then ranked.

[Kate Young]

Using those scores, we have now ranked the wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

So this is not a subjective opinion. We are simply taking our findings.

[Kate Young]

Yes. We're giving you the maths.

[Kalya Donahue]

Giving honest scores of them that we think. We think. We're an independent committee. We have no vested interests. No. And giving them honest scores, like, you know, these are subjectively bottom to top worst to Best Weddings and Friends weddings in Friends. But before we get into that. Oh, yes, very important, we have some honorable mentions because we are doing significant weddings. There are a couple of weddings that circle the show that we don't really see a lot of or they aren't that important. And those weddings are. This is the honorable mentions category.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

First of all, we just mentioned it. Episode one.

[Kate Young]

The pilot.

[Kalya Donahue]

The pilot. Rachel running out on her own wedding.

[Kate Young]

Rachel's stunning dress. Stunning.

[Kalya Donahue]

Stunning.

[Kate Young]

She looks so beautiful.

[Kalya Donahue]

She looks so.

[Kate Young]

She's in it with that damp hair for so long.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

So nice.

[Kalya Donahue]

And you really do feel like you're looking at a movie star.

[Kate Young]

Oh, yeah. Big time. She is, like, absolutely luminous in it.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. It's so good.

[Kate Young]

And it's like, it fits her so beautifully.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

I, I, yeah, we were talking about it when we were watching it, that it must for a pilot. There's no way.

[Kalya Donahue]

So exquisite.

[Kate Young]

It's so exquisite. And that they must have, like, got it from some other.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Some other show or some other, like, backlot.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Collection of wedding dresses. But it looks like it should be Rachel's dress. Dress.

[Kalya Donahue]

It looks like a Grace Kelly dress. It looks like it came from, like, like a 1950s MGM sort of thing. And I think it has what every great wedding dress has. When I talk great wedding, I mean, like, I'm sure whatever you wore, you look beautiful. Whatever. But in terms of, like, the what we think of when we think wedding dresses, that they should look somewhere between a evening gown and architecture. Do you know what I mean? They should almost feel like they stand up on their own or something and.

[Kate Young]

That they are a thing in their own. Right.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes. And it's like, it's got this, like, sort of stiffness to it, but it's also so flattering. Yes. Lace bodice is so good.

[Kate Young]

It's beautiful. Big skirt. Like, it's so. It's a really. It's a beautifully romantic dress. And when she comes in, it's so. It's exactly what you want that moment to be because it's so surprising.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

It's so stunning. It happens, like, within 30 seconds of the show happening and it's the whole screen. Exactly.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

She walks into that cafe and it is, like, touching everyone.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

It's great. It's such a lovely moment. And then she's in it upstairs in the flat in the apartment.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's so true. That thing of, like, having this because you have them for a couple of minutes just on the couch. You get the tone of that. They're just people who hang out all day, kind of vibes. And then you're right. When she walks in, it touches everyone in the way that wedding dresses do. Yes. It sort of pulls focus in the way and as well, because the coffee house is so brown and green.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

But just pops really loudly. Yeah. Perfect.

[Kate Young]

Perfect.

[Kalya Donahue]

We don't really know much about Barry and Rachel's wedding, but we're going to talk about it.

[Kate Young]

We're going to talk about it soon.

[Kalya Donahue]

So we'll just go past that. The other one also includes Rachel, which is Rachel and Ross eloping in Vegas.

[Kate Young]

Yes. Which.

[Kalya Donahue]

Bit of fun.

[Kate Young]

Bit of fun and narratively important. It's the end of season five, and so it's halfway through their romantic narrative.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

Like in the first episode we know that Ross fancies her. In the final episode, he gets. She gets off the plane. Like, the midpoint of that is them getting drunk and married in Vegas.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

Like, in terms of the structure of the show, I actually would argue that the emotional midpoint of it is when he says Rachel at the wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

But the midpoint is this wedding in Vegas. But it's hard to include in our list of five because you don't really see it. And they're drunk and there is no reception and they're in clothes from the.

[Kalya Donahue]

Plane and they're marker on their face.

[Kate Young]

Very good and very funny. And also a perfect fake out to have spent the entire episode pushing you towards maybe Chandler and Monica are gonna get married today. And then actually, no, they're not gonna get married. What's happening is Ross and Rachel are gonna get married. And now we have a man who has been married three times and that becomes Ross's personality.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, it's really good.

[Kate Young]

It's great.

[Kalya Donahue]

And I think what makes it really good as well is that they get married and then they immediately go their separate ways.

[Kate Young]

Yes, it's perfect. It's a perfect shot.

[Kalya Donahue]

So it's not like, oh, what if they sleep together and get back together?

[Kate Young]

It's like, no. So these people are so drunk, they're both. They're both vomiting at different corners outside this.

[Kalya Donahue]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's great. Is there anything else in the honorable mentions category?

[Kate Young]

The One with all the Cheesecakes so there's an ep. The episode that is more famously remembered for the cheesecakes is cousin Franny's wedding. Monica and Ross's cousin Franny. And Monica has not been invited to the wedding and is furious and goes as Ross's plus one and is then obviously has slept with the groom. And that is the reason that she's not been invited. But it. It just feels like a wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

Right?

[Kate Young]

It's another, like, just wedding in a ballroom kind of wedding. It's lots of round tables. It's like not a. And it's not narratively important. It ends being like, oh, there's nothing going on here except you one day slept with Grim. And this is a cousin you don't really see anymore.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, you're right. That is remembered for the cheesecakes.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, it's cheese cake.

[Kalya Donahue]

And again, all these episodes, they're Rachel episodes. Rachel pulls focus. Rachel pulls focus. She steals her wind. Okay, so now that we've got all the throat clearing out of the way 25 minutes in, what is number five on the list, guys.

[Kate Young]

Number five on the list is Monica and Chandler's wedding. Monica and Chandler's wedding, which is season seven, episode 23 and season seven, episode 24, the one with Monica and Chandler's Wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

We hate this wedding.

[Kate Young]

We hate this wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

We hate this wedding. Okay, I'm gonna begin with style.

[Kate Young]

Come on.

[Kalya Donahue]

First of all, the fact that Monica does her own hair and makeup is so consistent. Like out of character.

[Kate Young]

So out of character.

[Kalya Donahue]

So out of character. She would obviously have a hair and makeup person. She brings out her makeup bag on the kitchen table day of. I'm like, may, what are you doing? What are you doing?

[Kate Young]

To be fair, they do that at Phoebe's as well. It's like a thing that makes sense. It does make sense. But people wouldn't have a makeup. They're all just sitting around doing their makeup together at home on the kitchen table.

[Kalya Donahue]

Hilarious.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Why?

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Second of all, her look.

[Kate Young]

Oh, yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Nothing goes together. No, the dress is basic and I think I actually. So what year was this?

[Kate Young]

So this one was 2001. Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And I actually do kind of remember this, that like post, like, obviously there was the four weddings, Princess Diana, Rachel's first wedding dress kind of thing. That, that whole the, the meringue dress.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

Became a cultural punchline. And then I do remember in the 2000s, of course, there was a whole thing, very slimmed down dresses like silk or satin, V neck ivory dresses that were form fitting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like looking back on it now, I'm like, boring. I'm sure they'll come back again. They are back in some ways.

[Kate Young]

They are back in some ways. But yeah, yeah. I think that it was a very dress of its time.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes. And it's so funny now because when you look back on like your Princess Diana's wedding dress or Mariah Carey's wedding dress, you're like, I'm so. I guess that's just how tastes change and move around. But like, I'm so more attracted to that.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Because it's such a big fucking choice.

[Kate Young]

I think that's it. It just feels like if it's not in fashion anymore, the kind of, the big choice is something you can continue to admire. You can continue to go like, oh, that's a swing. That looks kind of extraordinary.

[Kalya Donahue]

Even if it doesn't look particularly again, like architecture.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, exactly. But there's something about the sort of very simple V neck satin dress that just when it's out of style is really out of style.

[Kalya Donahue]

So true. And then the Styling of it.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Okay. The veil drives me mad.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Like.

[Kalya Donahue]

Veil weird length and doesn't go in her hair. Doesn't go in her hair properly. It was just like plumped on. I remember somewhat clearly from the morning of my wedding after the hair lady was packing up and leaving and I was like, you gonna put the veil in? She was like, no, that's your job. And I was like, what? And then me and Ella were just like, how do you do that? If anyone's planning a wedding, do a hair tutorial and do it with the veil. Yeah. Because like, I had no clue, of course. I was like stuck the comb thing in there and it just fell out all day. Did you see me in that veil all day? No, you fucking didn't cause it in. And I was really excited about that veil because it was gold. But anyway, the veil has like. You know how some veils have sort of pearls shot through it and they're beautiful. It has about five pearls in it.

[Kate Young]

It's not enough.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's not enough to make. It's like so a non choice.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And then the necklace is this sort of yucky silvery. Very. It's too, like thin.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

But it's again, it's like, it's too.

[Kate Young]

Thin, but it's also too high on.

[Kalya Donahue]

Her neck and there's too much negative space around it between her breasts and the. And the. And the necklace. It's like wrong. And her hair is just down.

[Kate Young]

Yep, it's down. And that.

[Kalya Donahue]

I think the V neck silk form fitting dress can look great with a very high structured bun.

[Kate Young]

Bring the structure in somewhere. The architecture needs to be elsewhere.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes, the architecture. And then like pin a flowing down veil into the bun in the back or something. It can look great, but it's just like heavy.

[Kate Young]

And it's also like Rachel and Phoebe's dresses don't really fit them that well. They're awful dresses. They cut really oddly. It's that like bias cut, like cut on the bias thing that we were doing a lot then. But they hang really oddly on both of these absolutely stunning women.

[Kalya Donahue]

Horrible color palette.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

This was a time as well when gold was very in, but like not like Versailles gold. It's sort of like kind of muted, metallicy kind of gold. And so it's always photographs on the kind of verge of sort of piss yellow and silver, you know.

[Kate Young]

Yep. And everything on that set has been spray painted with that gold. And so it's. Every single shot is just like something that's like gold but not gleaming. It's gleaming. It's just dull.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

And takes up a lot of space.

[Kalya Donahue]

And I remember we only watched. We didn't watch the kind of build up to the wedding. We watched just the wedding episodes. But I do recall that, like, there's a lot of Monica wedding planning. Oh, yes, she's gone crazy thing. But it's like the way they talk about it. I don't think they say the Plaza, but it's like kind of like that sort of level, isn't it?

[Kate Young]

I think they go to this gallery opening.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Earlier in the season or like after they're engaged. Or maybe it's even before they're engaged.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

She goes to this event at some point and then goes, I'm gonna book this place.

[Kalya Donahue]

Oh, yeah, she does book it.

[Kate Young]

Like, that is when she.

[Kalya Donahue]

When she's single.

[Kate Young]

When she's single and she's with Chandler because she freaks out that he's gonna hear it on the answering machine. So I think they're living together but not engaged.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And he does, like, she does book it. We know where it is, but it might as well be. It's nothing to that, to the episode that it finally happens. It doesn't come back. Nothing to that. And Monica is a people pleaser who is a person who is. So much of her energy goes into staying thin.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Sad as a character. Like, narratively, that is. That is true.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And she is such a people pleaser and such a sort of needs to know that everyone is looking at her and thinking that she's done life really well.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. Because her mother's mean to her.

[Kate Young]

Because her mother's mean to her. Because she's got so much complexity in her backstory that I just am not convinced that she knows what wedding she wants to have.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

She is the person who brings out a massive folder full of things that she's wanted since childhood. And all of these decisions she's already made and wedding scenario A and wedding scenario B. And this is what we can afford, and this is how we're going to do it. And I think all of those are things that she thinks somebody else would want or thinks that she should want or someone said somebody said was classy and is the right choice. And so I'm just not convinced that she's having a good time. And there's that brutal moment, like, narratively skipping ahead. Like, the invented drama in this wedding is that Chandler might bolt, which we know he's not going to do.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

Because he's not. He, like. Because he loves her and he's not. And they're not gonna write that. They're not gonna write Monica's wedding not happening. It's just not true. And also, I bet in promo, there were loads of shots of him at the. I'm sure of them at their wedding. In the promotion of that episode. Like, not even the viewers then think that he's not gonna go through with it totally. And. And so all that Monica gets in that episode is everyone being afraid to tell her because of what she might do, that he's, like, having real feelings about the fact that his family is also incredibly complex. And he's got this tragic, tricky history of feeling unloved, and he doesn't know what family looks like.

[Kalya Donahue]

There are two broken toys.

[Kate Young]

They're two broken toys. And nobody tells her that he's having those feelings or they're struggling with that, so she can't help him. And the moment she finds out about it is when they are at the altar.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And she hears that he bolted, and she is having to, like, process her own, like, feelings of all of that while trying to do her vows with this man.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. Yeah. It's awful.

[Kate Young]

It's. It's not good.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's not good. So it's not good narratively. It's not good stylistically. And I also think there's, like. There's. The only sort of, again, payoff or drama that is real and we're going to see more of later is that someone's pregnant. And first we think it's Monica, and then we think it's Phoebe, and then we find out it's Rachel. And it's actually. That bit is really well played.

[Kate Young]

It's so well played. Like, the Rachel. Rachel being pregnant. And it's a beautiful moment, but it is also. Rachel is the main character, because the end of that episode is not a picture of, like, Monica and Chandler kissing, having just got married. It's a camera. Zoom in on Rachel's face as the audience goes, oh, fuck, it's Rachel.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's Rachel.

[Kate Young]

Because when Phoebe has gone, oh, it's me, we know it's not her. So we're like, who must it be? Who must it be? And suddenly it's. We know as the audience because of Rachel's face.

[Kalya Donahue]

Some of the best work from Jennifer Aniston. I mean, she's so good. But, like, that moment where Phoebe says, oh, it's Monica's pregnant. And then. And then she looks to Rachel and Rachel just, like, shakes her head.

[Kate Young]

Just shakes her head.

[Kalya Donahue]

Just like Please don't.

[Kate Young]

Please don't. I can't do this now. I can't do this now. It's that. And then it's the next episode where Phoebe is like, oh, you're not pregnant. And reads the. Deliberately reads the pregnancy test wrong just to be like, do you want to be pregnant? How do you feel about this? And Rachel being like, I'm actually quite sad.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

I didn't know this was a thing I didn't want to lose, but I didn't want to lose it. And now I'm not pregnant.

[Kalya Donahue]

And then it's like the slow kind of like, where she's, like, so beautiful. That thing that Rachel does, like. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. And then she just, like, starts talking through tears. When someone talks through tears.

[Kate Young]

Oh, my God. And she's so good at it.

[Kalya Donahue]

I watched tears on my cast. Me too.

[Kate Young]

We were watching through tears. But she's so good at it.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Jennifer Aniston is just so moving.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Because she's so funny and a cultural icon.

[Kalya Donahue]

We can forget that she's also one of the most gifted comic actors of.

[Kate Young]

Her generation and that she's great in comedy, but then that she can also really pull off a moment of true, deep, sincere feeling of this woman in her mid-30s going, we saw her at her birthday the year before being like, oh, but I really want to have kids, and I want it to happen this way. And I want her to have known the guy for this song beforehand. And this is how the structure of my life is going to go. And this is her realizing that the structure of her life is not going to go that way. That what she is doing is not being married and being, you know, being engaged for a couple of years first, and then being married and then having a year before you get pregnant and then getting pregnant. And she is instead doing it in this way. And she really wants to do it. She really wants that kid.

[Kalya Donahue]

Oh, it's so beautiful.

[Kate Young]

And it's such a shame that the kid is never in it from then on. Emma is so rarely in the show.

[Kalya Donahue]

But they really understand how uninteresting babies are in this show. Ben is not interested in. Ben is not interested in Amazon Kids Are not story. No, But I think that's the only sort of narratively interesting thing, because the other thing that's happening, this is so funny is Joey can't make the wedding because he has this part in this movie with this famous British actor who's like, a big deal, and he keeps spitting on him. And they're not getting on well. And then they sort of like, fix that problem. And then it's like, the famous British actor is drunk. He's a Scot.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And like, all that. And you and I were watching this and we were like. I think we were down on this episode because the styling makes us so mad. And we were like, this. This is not good.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

This is like just. It just doesn't work or something. And we see too much of it. If it was just the spitting, it would be fine. But it just keeps, like, it goes.

[Kate Young]

We have a lot of time with this guy who we're like, no, no.

[Kalya Donahue]

And we were kind of theorizing why it didn't work for us so much, and we were like, the thing is, is that, like, he doesn't feel prestigious?

[Kate Young]

Yeah, he's just not very good. He doesn't feel prestigious.

[Kalya Donahue]

He feels like he's doing a fake English accent.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

It feels like it wanders into Australia and every now and then. We weren't sure. We just couldn't. We didn't understand who this person was supposed to be standing in for. Like, is it Ethan Hawke or is it sort of like, you know, who would have been a big British actor at that time? I don't know.

[Kate Young]

But early 2000s.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Like, is he a. Is he a. Is he a Hugh Grant? Is he like. Is he a man who came, who's like. Or a man who should be more serious?

[Kalya Donahue]

Who is he?

[Kate Young]

Who is he?

[Kalya Donahue]

Like, it just felt so broad and vague and we were like, this is a bad performance. And then when the episode was ending and the credits were coming up, and it was like, so and so. Played by Gary Oldman. Gary Oldman, one of the most famous actors of his generation.

[Kate Young]

And we instantly just had to be like, yeah, that is visibly Gary Oldman. Yeah, that is true. Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Well, famously, he's a chameleon who is very hard to identify in roles sometimes. But does it. I just.

[Kate Young]

That would be watching Sloanes. I've seen him very recently.

[Kalya Donahue]

True romance. Batman. You know, he's in so much stuff. So many iconic roles, and this is not one of them.

[Kate Young]

Not one of them.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's so weird.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's so weirdly bad.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. But we spend a lot of time on that set.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And it's.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's boring.

[Kate Young]

It feels dull.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's.

[Kate Young]

It's not. Yeah. Joey's a really great character and a really interesting guy.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

But that chunk of time, I'm like, I don't have any time for it. It's not very interesting.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. The spitting doesn't have. Yeah. So.

[Kate Young]

So. So that's what else is happening.

[Kalya Donahue]

Chandler. Slippy shoes.

[Kate Young]

Shannon Slippy shoes. Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

That's shit.

[Kate Young]

Also a moment for just, I guess, an acknowledgment of the ongoing transphobia in the show surrounding.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

Chandler's dad.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Which the show can't seem to figure out or decide the identity of that character.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's so the show cannot decide whether Chandler's quote, unquote dad is. His is like a drag queen. A trans woman.

[Kate Young]

Yep.

[Kalya Donahue]

Some drag queens are trans.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

But, like, they just don't know what's going on there. And they're like, do we ever even get what her name is? Like, what is Chandler's dad's name?

[Kate Young]

I mean, her drag name is Helena Handbasket, but I don't know. I don't know whether she goes by Helena in her daily life.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah. Exactly. The pronouns are always pronouns. Yeah. It's always man in a dress.

[Kate Young]

Yep.

[Kalya Donahue]

And, like, in a way that, like, I understand that we're coming at this from a 2025 lens where some of us know more about trans people now, but, like, I feel like there was still.

[Kate Young]

Oh, yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And knowledge that at the very least, even if you don't respect this person's identity, that they are. Their pronouns are different. They're not simply just a man. And also, you've got a woman playing this character.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Kathleen Turner is playing this woman.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's so unkind to Kathleen Turner. It's so unkind to the trans community. And it's really uncomfortable.

[Kate Young]

It's a real bum note. And it just sits really badly.

[Kalya Donahue]

I think it can be funny that he is a trans dad.

[Kate Young]

Sure.

[Kalya Donahue]

You know what I mean? And, like. And the thing is, the way they do it with Carol and Susan, which is, like, all the fun, is that Ross is uncomfortable with.

[Kate Young]

This is the thing. If you decide as a writing room who that character is and give her a sense of real character and depth and autonomy, then Chandler being weird about it is the joke.

[Kalya Donahue]

Exactly.

[Kate Young]

But at the moment, it feels like we're supposed to also laugh at her.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's so unresearched as well. Oh, God.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

If you have genuine hatred in your soul for trans. Because I don't think they do. I think it's just laziness. It's just deep laziness and callousness.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

That is not consistent with the show's tone at all. But it can be consistent with how it is about gay people and Queer people, you know?

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

So that's. That's a bummer.

[Kate Young]

That's a bummer. But I think before we move on to another wedding, I. I think that the key. The reason that this wedding ends up bottom for me is that the wedding feels very much like Monica as a kid showing her mother the kind of wedding that she could have and should have and is worthy of. And it doesn't feel like them.

[Kalya Donahue]

No.

[Kate Young]

There doesn't feel like any moment of it that feels like, rooted in either Chandler or Monica. Except that it's like we want the nicest wedding we can have in a very, like, middle interpretation of what nicest means and looks like.

[Kalya Donahue]

Oh, God.

[Kate Young]

We know that.

[Kalya Donahue]

Which is many people's weddings.

[Kate Young]

Right. We know that the band is a band that Chandler has feelings about.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. But they're good.

[Kate Young]

They're good. But unfortunately, he's got slippy shoes. His only plot at the wedding is he has slippy shoes and he can't dance to the band that he loves.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And so.

[Kalya Donahue]

Which is really sad.

[Kate Young]

It's really sad. So all of this is just. It does not feel like a real celebration of these two characters. Unlike, I would say, their engagement.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

Their engagement at the end of the season before where he is running around trying to keep a secret and trying to make it happen. And he gets home and she set up all the candles and she tries to propose to him but can't. So he has to propose to her.

[Kalya Donahue]

And they're both on their knees.

[Kate Young]

They're both on their knees. I'm moved. I'm like, that is beautiful. They are those two characters, two broken toys. That is beautiful. These two people committing to each other and being like, we're going to make each other really happy. And there is none of that in this wedding. And that is a crime.

[Kalya Donahue]

That is a crime also. Can I first. Sorry. Last thing I'm gonna say about this wedding that bums me out. It is filled with people and children.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

Everyone in the background is the oldest.

[Kate Young]

Person I've ever seen people chance. It is unreal.

[Kalya Donahue]

They're so every table. When it's not like Mona or like.

[Kate Young]

And what we said.

[Kalya Donahue]

Theater producer.

[Kate Young]

It's very obvious that this is a wedding of people who have a very small group of friends they spend all their time with.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And then friends of their parents and children of others and some colleagues.

[Kalya Donahue]

And it's so like, it's. But the thing is, as much as I hate this wedding, I think it is very true for the reasons you just said.

[Kate Young]

Yes. Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes. And it's so, like, it's very Judy as well. Judy Geller to be like, oh, you have to.

[Kate Young]

You have to. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all filled with people that Monica's like, I've not seen them since I was 12.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. I don't even know if those scenes exist.

[Kate Young]

But those scenes exist in my head, and that's fine. Like, having lots of family at the wedding can be lovely as long as you also have lots of friends who you love and adore. And I just think that they. Because we don't have the addition of another friendship circle. Like, we don't have what we have with Phoebe and Mike's wedding where you get Mike's mates. We don't have, like, Emily's friends from the Ross and Emily wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

It's just Chandler and Monica who have the same small friendship group. And Mona and Mona from work. Like, Mona's a colleague. Mona from the restaurant.

[Kalya Donahue]

Mona from the restaurant.

[Kate Young]

You know, they've got these restaurants. Mona from the restaurant, they've got these six friends. And then colleagues and extended family.

[Kalya Donahue]

And elders.

[Kate Young]

And elders.

[Kalya Donahue]

I will say, I did say to my parents when I was planning my wedding, I was like, there is going to be an absolute limit on oldies. I'm really sorry. I don't care about these people. And, like, I haven't been to, like, all the family weddings because we're a big family. And they would always just invite my sister as, like, the diplomat.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And so it's like, I haven't been.

[Kate Young]

To any of these people.

[Kalya Donahue]

So no cousins? No cousins, no uncles or whatever. My dad was so mad. And then I was told the morning after my wedding, I was like. They were like, you made the right call.

[Kate Young]

There you go.

[Kalya Donahue]

Because having a youthful wedding where everyone's dancing feels better. I'm not saying don't invite all people to your wedding but I'm saying don't be kowtowed into inviting old strangers to your wedding.

[Kate Young]

Yes, exactly.

[Kalya Donahue]

You're dear aunties and uncles, of course. But, like, the golfing buddies, it's a no. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And also, like. And I got pressure, but I do think that. But that changes if you've got. If you're allowed to have a huge guest list. If you're in a massive venue and it's full of. Feels like full of energy and full of all of that and full of all your friends. Crucially, then the more the merrier. It's lovely. But if you are like, we're restricted to 120. I cannot have 20 of those people be your friends, your parents. Friends.

[Kalya Donahue]

Sorry. So what? Our final number on that?

[Kate Young]

So our final numbers. Monica and Chandler. We don't want to be there. FOMO is 2.

[Kalya Donahue]

FOMO. 2. No FOMO at all. Rather be anywhere else.

[Kate Young]

Unfortunately, 2. Not least because the next day Ross and Chandler go back with instant cameras and take a bunch of photos of what is in inverted commas. The exact same wedding the next day. Same flowers, same band, same everything.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's a churn.

[Kate Young]

It's not even Monica's dream. Like it's her dream for so long, but it's a picture that somebody else has already created.

[Kalya Donahue]

Oh.

[Kate Young]

Anyway, Roughy, so two for style and narratively, and this is mostly because Rachel's pregnant. 6. It's a satisfying thing to see these two people who fell in love at a wedding get married. But if I'm returning to my big feelings about Chandler and Monica, it's their engagement and not their marriage.

[Kalya Donahue]

Well said. And that gives us a score of.

[Kate Young]

An average 0.33 recurring.

[Kalya Donahue]

3.33 recurring for Chandler. For Chandler.

[Kate Young]

Monica's wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

What is the next wedding on our list? What is number four?

[Kate Young]

Barry and Mindy.

[Kalya Donahue]

People are going to be screaming. People are going to be Maddie, Barry and Mindy, Pete, Chandler and Monica. They're not even main characters.

[Kate Young]

They're not even main characters. Neither of them.

[Kalya Donahue]

Neither of them. We never see either of them again. Very important. Which I'll get to in a minute. But I think what's important about Barry and Mindy's wedding is that it was going to be the Rachel wedding, Right?

[Kate Young]

Yes, it is Rachel's wedding that she did have.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes. First of all, style.

[Kate Young]

Style.

[Kalya Donahue]

Okay. Is this my taste and is it dated? No and yes. But is a consistent vision. The bridesmaid's dress, which is mental, but it's actually on a realistic side of mental for all the time. And you could definitely find that dress on Damson Madder. Now if you make a few tweaks and take out those bedazzling chest piece things.

[Kate Young]

But.

[Kalya Donahue]

But that color is consistent through the.

[Kate Young]

Wedding with the flowers, with the table settings, with everything else. It's very clearly like that was the theme of the wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, that's still Magnolia's line. My colors are blush and bash. And Mindy's dress is fucking underrated.

[Kate Young]

Oh, it's so good.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's such a cunty but elegant dress.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's so, so good because it's like this mid length. It's kind of like knee length.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Above knee. Above knee. Above knee. But there are kind of floating panels coming off of it. And then she has this great little hat.

[Kate Young]

It's so good.

[Kalya Donahue]

She looks like sort of Jackie O meets showgirl.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, yeah. And then a huge bustle of Teule that's like over the dress and not under it.

[Kalya Donahue]

She looks amazing.

[Kate Young]

She looks unreal.

[Kalya Donahue]

She looks so, so good. Barry looks great.

[Kate Young]

Barry does look great.

[Kalya Donahue]

And he's happy.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And the thing is, they are assholes, but they are happy.

[Kate Young]

They are happy. They are happy. And I think, like, there is no way to be Mindy at that wedding that was supposed to be your best friend's.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

The girl you don't really talk to anymore.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Whose husband you are marrying and had an affair with before their marriage. Before their wedding. There's no way to show up to that wedding in, like, a floor length I am a Virgin bridal gown. She is wearing the correct dress for that vibe.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's very. I'm fabulous and I'm rolling with the punches.

[Kate Young]

I'm fabulous. I'm rolling with this.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And it turns out that actually a lot of her speeches are about Rachel. A lot of her speeches.

[Kalya Donahue]

The main character of everyone's life.

[Kate Young]

The main character of everyone's life. A lot of her speeches end up just being about Rachel and being about, like, the fact that Barry and Rachel were going to have this wedding, but this Long island venue, which I believe that all of those characters have been to, like, 12 weddings in that, plus.

[Kalya Donahue]

Bar mitzvahs, plus anniversary parties. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

They have all been in that room. They've all got stories around the back of that venue from when they were 14. Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

And it really. It feels real.

[Kalya Donahue]

It feels like a real wedding. And like you were saying as well, there's kind of. There's a moment where they have the ceremony in one room.

[Kate Young]

Yes. Yeah. So we see Rachel go in because obviously she's got her dress in her knickers and we see that, but we don't actually see the ceremony. But it's really. In terms of the architecture of the space, it's really clear to me I might be wrong. I think I'm right. That what happens is they all go in and they see that ceremony happen with all of them in line to lines of chairs.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

And then they come outside or. And into that, like, atrium where they have little canapes and little drinks. Or they go out into the grass. If there's grass outside.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

And then while that is happening, all of the staff are breaking down all of that ceremony structure, and everyone. They're recreating it into the now room that you are getting married in. And then everyone goes back in. And now it's the venue for the.

[Kalya Donahue]

Reception, which is very real. It's very real. That's how venues are.

[Kate Young]

That's how venues have to work. You can't have infinite space. That's not how it works. So you've got this one room that you're going into.

[Kalya Donahue]

Two rooms, really.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

The canape room, the canopy room.

[Kate Young]

Like the atrium room where they're sort of hanging out before the bridesmaids go through.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And. Yeah, the big room where it all happens.

[Kalya Donahue]

And I think what's very interesting about this narratively as well, is that if we're following Rachel right now, this is. So she makes a fool of herself.

[Kate Young]

She does.

[Kalya Donahue]

She does. She makes her speech.

[Kate Young]

Everyone sees her knickers.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. And she does her big fuck you to these people speech. And then she leaves. And then she does the Copacabana. Barry Manilow's Copacabana. And she started singing with the band. And you and I had such a long discussion about this because it's like. It's like, not sitcom. Because the thing about sitcom jokes is that they run on rails.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

There's callbacks. There's seeds planted or whatever. There is no seed planting for Copacabana. Really? I don't think. I don't think it comes up anywhere else that you. This is her party piece or anything. It's just. It's kind of like if it were a joke played today, it would be kind of strangely, in that fleabag tone of like, this is a complicated woman who's doing something because it's her instinct. And it might not be right, but it is what's right for her right now. It doesn't really make sense, but it's like she gets up and sings it and, like. Yeah. We have different opinions on why that might be. We were really talking about why that might be.

[Kate Young]

We were really talking about it. And I think, like. I think my vision of it is that this is potentially. These people in this room are people who've known her since she was a child. There's lots of, like, extended family and Mindy's family and history and all of that with these people. She was in Barry's family for years, so all of his extended family know her really well.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

There's, like, a running joke that he's using the same band, the same caterers, the same everything for this wedding. And she is Returning to a place that she doesn't really exist anymore.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Like, the Rachel who we meet in the pilot is a different woman. She is somebody who her dad paid for everything. She hadn't lived out of home. You're a shoe. You're a shoe.

[Verizon Advertiser]

You're a shoe.

[Kalya Donahue]

You're a shoe.

[Kate Young]

But she was that woman. That was who she was. And we now know we've had two seasons of getting to know this different person.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And I think that she is going back and performing a thing that she might once have performed when she was, like. Like 12 years old, 14 years old, surrounded by similar community and these people before.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And that it is sort of like I. I'm different now, but I also. I know who you see. And it is okay that I am different. I am still. I am like, I am all of these people.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Wow.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

That's really good. And I think what's really important as well, narratively, is that as far as I can recall, this is the first final tying up of Barry and Mindy and that end of Rachel's life and her story. It is like we. Like, she is breaking from that forever. Because up till now, we've had lots of, like, going in to see Barry to return the ring and all this kind of stuff. And, like, I don't think it ever comes up again after this. So tying up that with the bow is, like, really satisfying.

[Kate Young]

It's really satisfying. And also what happens alongside that? Oh, Monica and Richard.

[Kalya Donahue]

Fucking Monica and Richard. One of the saddest.

[Kate Young]

One of the saddest. Sweetest breakups and truest breakups. Like, it's so moving.

[Kalya Donahue]

Talk us through.

[Kate Young]

It's so moving to watch her assume that they're gonna have kids because that's a thing she's always wanted. And it kind of hasn't occurred to her that that might not be a thing that is in their life together.

[Kalya Donahue]

Because, as well, they've already had so much struggle in getting together at all with.

[Kate Young]

He's like a brother to dad.

[Kalya Donahue]

He's like a brother to dad. He's older than most people, but younger than most.

[Kate Young]

Younger than most. It's so good.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

So we're really invested in Monica and Richard at this point. It's really.

[Kalya Donahue]

And he hangs out with them, and they're all, like, over it. Like.

[Kate Young]

And also, like, she's really good with him.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

He really looks after her in a way that allows her to be herself and be weird but not have to run their lives. He's very independent. He runs his own life.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

He's very on top of things. And it's.

[Kalya Donahue]

I'm not saying this should have happened for the show, but if the people were real and I was one of Monica's friends who get dialed into these parties, I would be like, she should have married that Richard. She should have married Richard. Yeah. Because she. I mean, obviously she gets crazier as the season goes on. Because that's what sitcom.

[Kate Young]

Because that's what sitcom to it. The characters all get crazier. Joey gets dumber. So much dumber that it's actually impossible to fan.

[Kalya Donahue]

Monica gets more neurotic.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. But she. I think he just really looked after her.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, he did.

[Kalya Donahue]

You know, and like, as somebody who wasn't parented very well in many ways and was neglected, maybe. Maybe it's okay to have daddy issues.

[Kate Young]

Maybe it's okay to have daddy issues if you. Monica.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. And if you find a really nice daddy to look after you.

[Kate Young]

Exactly. I think it's nice. But she is talking about a picture of their life. And she asks about a bassinet in the corner. And he says, like a hound. The delivery, it was so delicious. Like a hound.

[Kalya Donahue]

Like a hound.

[Kate Young]

And she just wants a baby. And he's already done that. And we meet his son in, like, three years time when. At Thanksgiving, when Monica's got a patch on her eye.

[Kalya Donahue]

Sure.

[Kate Young]

He has grown up children who are doctors. Like, he's so. He's grown up children who are her age. He's done it all. He does not want to do it again. And the end of the episode is him not wanting it to be over and saying to her, if I have to, I'll do it all again. I'll do the night feeds. I'll do the kids in school. I'll take him to college. I'll do, like. I'll do it with you if I have to. I'm. I'm gonna do it if I have to. If it takes that. And if you want to be happy with that, then I will. If I have to, I'll do it. And she's just like, I don't want you to have to. I don't want to have a kid with somebody who has to have a kid. And she's right.

[Kalya Donahue]

She's so right.

[Kate Young]

She's right. That's not a thing. But. And she desperately wants children. And it is like, honestly, the 10 years of, like, Monica and children. Monica and like, motherhood.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Is such a sort of intense and moving narrative because, of course, we didn't know, in season two, she and Chandler can't have kids and they adopt and, like. And, you know, they find different ways of building a family, but she so desperately at this point wants to have a baby that the relationship with Richard ends.

[Kalya Donahue]

And they have that one.

[Kate Young]

They have that one last. So dance at Barry and Mindy's wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

So great. It's really great. It's really great.

[Kate Young]

And they're both great in that scene.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

I really buy it. I buy it from both of them. He's the most beautiful, like, man on this show. He's so gorgeous.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's so crazy that when I was a kid watching this, being, like, Lanica's going out. He's so gay. And that bit where Phoebe's like, oh, you are so lucky.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Phoebe gets it.

[Kalya Donahue]

We all get it now. Oh, he's so beautiful. I do think as well that, like, Courteney Cox is Monica's my least favorite friend and Courtney Cox is my least favorite actress in the series. But only because they're all incredible.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Yeah. The standard is so high. Why?

[Kalya Donahue]

I just think when she goes too big and too shrill, it's just not.

[Kate Young]

It's not fun.

[Kalya Donahue]

It doesn't feel good as a viewer. And it's, like, not. It just doesn't feel light and bouncy the way, like, Ross's neuroses feel. Like bouncy and, like, silly.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And it just feels kind of sad, I think. I think many people have come to this conclusion. Monica just feels very sad.

[Kate Young]

Very sad.

[Kalya Donahue]

Okay, so what was the final scorecard?

[Kate Young]

Finally, the other thing that's happening in this episode is you made a really clever point just before he started recording. Is Chandler becoming Janice?

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes. So Chandler has a laptop, a very big laptop comes up quite a bit.

[Kate Young]

Clunk.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. In the early seasons, and he is connected with a woman online. It is revealed he falls totally spent with her. And then it is revealed at the very last moment that it is Janice he's been speaking to. And I really noticed when we were looking at this sort of. This episode that this kind of. There's a real theme here of your past coming back to haunt you when it's unresolved. So he has unresolved tensions and dramas with Janice. And of course, she comes back. And also justice for Janice.

[Kate Young]

Justice for Janice. A gorgeous.

[Kalya Donahue]

I think we'll be talking about her in more detail in another episode.

[Kate Young]

But I'm so glad that that's happening because I just love her.

[Kalya Donahue]

Absolutely.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Absolutely. It's happening. But. And so this kind of strange mirroring of, like, his past coming to haunt him in this kind of circuitous way. And also.

[Kate Young]

And Rachel's in a past, standing in a room of her past, like, her entire past, looking at her at this wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's great.

[Kate Young]

That's great. It's really good. It's narratively really satisfying, which is why we have given it an eight for narrative satisfaction.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

We have given it a six for style. Because it's consistent. Because it's consistent. And it feels like they knew what they were doing. I know what that wedding is. We know what it. You know, we know that room. We know that community. It feels like a really solid thing.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

But we don't really want to be there.

[Kalya Donahue]

No.

[Kate Young]

We're a two for fomo if we miss this. We're not. We're not that sad.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I want to be there to see Rachel.

[Kate Young]

Sure.

[Kalya Donahue]

Saying, yeah, sure.

[Kate Young]

But generally, it's not like, am I.

[Kalya Donahue]

Gonna schlep out to Long island for that? Yeah.

[Kate Young]

I'm not going to Long island for that. It doesn't look like a great hang.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

None of the dancing looks like they're mean people.

[Kalya Donahue]

There's a meanness to them.

[Kate Young]

There's a meanness to them. And it would be like watching a car crash, but in a way where you're like, I don't feel good about this afterwards.

[Kalya Donahue]

Do you think Barry Mindy stay married?

[Kate Young]

No.

[Kalya Donahue]

Does that come up? Does Mindy come back? No, I don't think so.

[Kate Young]

She was in it beforehand, and like. Yeah, yeah. Like, when Rachel hooks up with Barry and then she tells Mindy that she's doing it, and she sounds like Chanel number five, et cetera, et cetera.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Mindy's like, I'm still gonna marry him.

[Kalya Donahue]

Oh, yeah.

[Kate Young]

She's still like, oh, no, this is. This isn't gonna end it. This isn't you and me running off into the sunset as single gals who got away from the same guy. Mindy's like, no, this is my life.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

But I think that. I don't think they get divorced soon. I think they have kids, but I think that there's a point in their future where they are not together. So an overall score then of 5.3. 3 recurring. This is what happens when you divide things into threes.

[Kalya Donahue]

He's taking me out.

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[Kalya Donahue]

You look the same, but with this.

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[Kalya Donahue]

You haven't changed your hair in 15 years.

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[Kate Young]

AI.

[Kalya Donahue]

Had the time of my life.

[Kate Young]

Hey, I never felt this way before. From building timelines to assigning the right people and even spotting risks across dozens of projects, Monday Sidekick knows your business, thinks ahead and takes action. One click on the star and consider it done.

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[Kalya Donahue]

Try Monday Sidekick.

[Kate Young]

AI you'll love to use on Monday.com. our next wedding is the lesbian wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

So good.

[Kate Young]

It is.

[Kalya Donahue]

I thought it would be higher.

[Kate Young]

Me too. I thought it would be higher, but actually it's because the scoring system that it's come down. And also we should start with style, because that is where it scores the lowest, actually.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes. Crazy. Crazy, crazy.

[Kate Young]

Mad Hatters Tea party of hats between the brides. What are they doing?

[Kalya Donahue]

What? Were they just, like, were the stylists.

[Kate Young]

Like, lesbians have hats?

[Kalya Donahue]

Since when do lesbians have.

[Kate Young]

I don't know.

[Kalya Donahue]

There are so many jokes of things that lesbians have, like tulle belt, U haul, whatever.

[Kate Young]

Why?

[Kalya Donahue]

Crazy ass.

[Kate Young]

Weird. Velvet crushing washed velvet hats. It's weird.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's so weird. Yeah. There are some separates under, like, when they take off all the bits and they're dancing and they're getting their photo taken.

[Kate Young]

When they're getting their photo taken and they're like, arms are around each other. They are both so beautiful. But they need to strip off the, like, gubbins that are covering them.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. And they're, like, holding, like, loose lilies.

[Kate Young]

Yes. Yeah. Like clutching flowers in their hands.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. With no arrangements.

[Kate Young]

Their arms.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. So that's a bummer.

[Kate Young]

And they are not to, like, criticize the catering because Monica does it.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

But they are, like, all standing up, eating pigs in blankets. I don't know where they're standing up eating chicken breasts. But, like, the vibe is odd.

[Kalya Donahue]

The vibe is odd because, you know, we have a lot to say on this, on the politics and the moment which Carol and Susan's wedding happens. But I think it's important to say we love Carol and Susan.

[Kate Young]

We love Carol and Susan.

[Kalya Donahue]

I think everyone does, right?

[Kate Young]

I think so. I hope so. I think that they are. They are so Often entered into the narrative for Ross to be a dick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And be a fool. And that's a really nice place to find them because they are their own little community.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And they get to come in and.

[Kalya Donahue]

Have the high ground.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. And also, Susan gets to, like, often bait him with stuff.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

Like, she's tasted Carol's breast milk. She knows what it tastes like. And the way that she says she's tasted it, he's like, like, you. You sleep with my wife.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

And that is very. It's very funny that they keep getting into so long.

[Kalya Donahue]

Carol never stops being Ross's wife in his head.

[Kate Young]

Yep. Exactly that.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And then this episode is part of that as well. This episode is like. It is really. He is such a dick in the beginning about it. And such a, like, weirdo about going to the wedding and all of the other friends, like, well, we'll be there. So. Yeah. Come on.

[Kalya Donahue]

Nobody else is weird about it.

[Kate Young]

Nobody else's weird about it. Everyone's like, you know, she is in love with this woman.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

Literally, we take the piss all the time. But this is nice, no?

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

It's a good thing. Broadly nice thing. But what is really moving in this episode and the moment is Carol coming to see Ross while Monica is in the midst of all the catering because her parents aren't gonna go. And she said that she knows that they were having trouble with it, and she knows that they have been struggling with this, but she thought that for a wedding, they'd kind of pull it together, and they just clearly don't. And that is really. That's a lot. That's a lot for, like, a sitcom to do in 20 minutes and to, like, really feel that moment land and feel, like, her real sadness in that and just be like, I don't know how I can have a wedding if my parents aren't going to be there and supporting it. And Ross is the one who says to her, like, it's not about them. This is about you. We will be there. I will support you. Yes. I will walk you down the aisle. And that's really moving. That's beautiful. And it's. It's a thing that, like, I think that it both celebrates their love as, like, queer people and lesbians.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

While also recognizing that this was a really weird time.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And a really. A really aggressive and violent and bad time.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

To be queer in America and the world really. Like, there were very few countries at this point where you could legally get married as gay. People you certainly couldn't in America. And this wedding then is like. It is a wedding but it's also like, it's hugely symbolic. It does not have any legal standing. Carol and Susan have no legal standing in each other's lives. The reason that Carol is so. Sorry. The reason that Susan is so focused on her involvement in Ben and having her name as his surname and like being his mum and. And her involvement in that is because like there'd been a couple of legal battles in the States at this point where two women who had a baby together fought for custody and like. And then custody was approved to the non birth mother. Like part of partial custody was approved. But broadly like if something happens to sue to Carol. Susan doesn't have any legal right over Ben.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And a child she's raising and a child she's raising in her home every day and was there for his birth and is like a big part of his mom, that family in terms of she's, she is his mum and she is like a big part of like not only his mum as like a person who enters his life, but she's, she's his mum from pregnancy. She's his mum always.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And he has three parents and, and she has no legal rights and. And she would be needing Ross to be a guy who said, yeah, you can still see your mum.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And that's, that's that like picks up on a lot of the resentment between those characters. Like she's terrified that he doesn't like her and that he's furious about this relationship and he's like livid that his wife is like left him for another woman because she's like, I might need you one day. I hope I don't. But like.

[Kalya Donahue]

Okay, you're killing me.

[Kate Young]

But like it's, it. You know that that is a tricky family for her to be part of because she is her, her ally is one woman.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And she loves this kid. She loves Ben so much and you can really see it. And he like goes down the aisle as well. And she has no legal right and it's mental and she wouldn't for ages.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Like this isn't. It's not a thing that's like even like resolved in the States by the time Friends ends.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Eight years later. Like, you know, it's, it's brutal. Oh yeah. I just. I know. So I, I think their love is really important.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's. And also something that you pointed out as well is that they never kiss.

[Kate Young]

They never kiss on screen because they have A much allusion to their, like, very active sex life.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

But, yeah, they never kiss. They don't kiss at their wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

They are in each other's arms. They are clearly in love. They're clearly married.

[Kalya Donahue]

Their photograph scene.

[Kate Young]

Their photograph scene is beautiful. They're so gorgeous together. But, yeah, they're not. They're not.

[Kalya Donahue]

But it really feels like. I would love to know more about those two actresses and their process, because we see them so rarely. Like, once or twice a season, maybe. But there's something about their physical chemistry. I just, like, believe those women wake up together every day, live their lives, have a huge circle of friends, hobbies, personal failings, whatever their chemistry. It's like they're so physical or something without even touching very much. And they're so in love.

[Kate Young]

They quietly in love.

[Kalya Donahue]

And neither of them are extroverted in any way, really. Like, Susan's definitely a bit tougher.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Because she has to be.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Like, but they're great.

[Kate Young]

They're so great. Yeah, they're really. They are great women. And I'm really. I'm really moved by this wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

And I think it's a very important wedding, not just in Friends, but, like, in television. It's the first lesbian wedding on, like, network television. Yeah, it's the first, certainly, like, on a sitcom. But, like, there'd been a gay wedding in Roseanne the month before, like, December 95. And this was January 96. But, yeah, this is, like, a new thing that was really groundbreaking. They anticipated a load of kickback about it, and it's why the women don't kiss. And both of them have, since they're both straight women, but they've both spoken since about how much they wanted to kiss and how much they regret not having kissed.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Because of how much it would have meant and what it would have been. But they're both like. It was the time that, like, yeah, we were worried about censorship and, yeah. Worried what the next folks would do. And even without them kissing, two affiliates decided not to broadcast that episode and only that episode to just be like, no, we are not broadcasting a lesbian wedding. So one in Texas and one in Utah were like, no, not us. Our community, our people will not be able to watch this episode. Mental, like. And that was. That was a true thing that was happening at that time. And. And in. In 1996, the defense of Marriage act came in in America. It was signed into law, and it was a law that. I mean, Defense of Marriage act sounds like it could be either terrible or we're defending marriage of all kinds and all people's right to marriage. It's the other one. So it's. It is, is. I'm going to read a bit which is that it limited the federal recognition of same sex marriage by limiting the definition of marriage to the union of one man and one woman. And specifically it allowed states to deny recognition of same sex marriages conducted by other states in anticipation of some states making marriage legal and others gay marriage legal and others not. And it also codified non recognition of same sex marriages for all federal purposes. Purposes. So that's insurance for government employees, Social Security, survivors benefits, immigration, bankruptcy, joint tax returns. Like all of the things that being married might make possible were not afforded to gay people. And that was regardless of whether or not marriage was legal in your state.

[Kalya Donahue]

Right.

[Kate Young]

So all of those federal things you could have, like gay marriage being legal in California and still you could not bring your husband.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

It dissolves as soon as you do.

[Kate Young]

It dissolves as soon as you leave the state. And it also means that the immigrate. Then federal law around immigration means you can't bring somebody to the country. So it's not just dissolves when you leave the state. It's like you are not afforded the same rights as somebody else. Regardless of what a state has decided you can do. You are not. Like those rights are still not the same.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

And it's not equal. And so that is. And it was introduced in May in 1996. So like four months after this episode. Episode was broadcast.

[Kalya Donahue]

Right. And.

[Kate Young]

And it was, it was introduced under Clinton. It was introduced under a Democratic Party. And Clinton was like, I don't think this is good, but didn't have a way of not doing it.

[Kalya Donahue]

Sure.

[Kate Young]

It was put through in the House and Newt Gingrich, who was the speaker of the House at the time, his sister, his half sister Candace is the person who officiates Carol and Susan's bunny.

[Kalya Donahue]

Oh.

[Kate Young]

Because she was a real champion for gay rights. And she was like, and he's a gay woman and is a lesbian herself.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And was like, my half brother's wrong, guys. He's on the wrong side of history. And she has like spoken about, about him at so many points in 2012 when he ran for. He like was a nominee on the presidential candidate.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

She was like, I'm going for Obama, guys. My brother is not good. Like, she is like publicly and at many points said he is on the wrong side of history.

[Kalya Donahue]

Oh my God.

[Kate Young]

And so part of this is her standing up and marrying these two women on primetime television. And that being a really, really important moment.

[Kalya Donahue]

That's so beautifully said. Thank you so much for taking me through that.

[Kate Young]

It's so beautiful.

[Kalya Donahue]

And taking the listeners through that.

[Kate Young]

It's so beautiful. And I just think, like, it's such a thing where, like, it was. We were talking about this before as well. It was illegal to be gay in my lifetime where I grew up. And same for you.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

Like, not just. Not just illegal to get married, but illegal to, like, be a homosexual man.

[Kalya Donahue]

Criminalized. Until 1987. Ireland.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, yeah. And 1997. Six, I think, in Queensland. And. And that obviously also doesn't include lesbians because.

[Kalya Donahue]

Not real.

[Kate Young]

No, not real. But also, as. As somebody said when they were writing the legislation, we don't want to give people ideas. So if we just don't put it in, they won't know that it's possible.

[Kalya Donahue]

Oh, my God.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

We don't want to give people ideas. So funny.

[Kate Young]

So funny. So funny to be like, if women know this is possible, they'll all want it.

[Kalya Donahue]

They know they can just live a life without men.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. If they know that sex like this is possible. Like, let's not codify this. Let's not write it down. So I think veganism is a whisper your heart makes. So I think it's hard now to watch this episode in with that lens, with that. That mindset that existed then where, like, this is a huge deal. Yeah, it's a huge deal. And I think it's easy to look at these weddings and just go like, oh, yeah, marriage is legal for everyone in the country we live in now. It's, you know, we are allowed to get married, and that's a really good thing. And we. We passed, you know, equal rights in that context and, you know, not still in some others. But, you know, yes, that was a thing that we fought for and won. This is now 30 years ago.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And. And it was not legal. This is not a thing. This wedding is not a wedding that exists on any paper anywhere except for them. And that is beautiful and really important.

[Kalya Donahue]

They do.

[Kate Young]

And lots of people were doing it anyway.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Like, this is emblematic of, like, a community of people who were making this happen anyway before it was legal.

[Kalya Donahue]

So beautiful. Kate.

[Kate Young]

I just love it. I just love this. I love this wedding. I know. I love these women. I love this. Like, they're just really good. They're really good. I think they're really good characters. I think they show up Ross for his smallness Smallness and his prejudice. But also they're just. They're just lovely.

[Kalya Donahue]

But just to take a minute of, like, because this is a show that has had a lot of very correct blowback for the way, like the gay panic. Oh, for sure. Very kind of homophobic, easy, boring show, shitty jokes. I don't think we're being written or broadcast because the people had darkness in their hearts, but that it was an easy thing to reach for and they probably had a late deadline. They knew people would laugh because it was funny to laugh at gay people in 1996.

[Kate Young]

I mean, one of the producers, one of the core producers. A gay man.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Like, this is not. This is not a community that didn't know gay people.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

This was the comedy at the time. This was the comedy comedy at the time.

[Kalya Donahue]

And, yeah, and that's neither to excuse it, but also it's like, I'm not interested in putting people on traffic thing, but it does sort of go to show that neither homophobia nor racism nor prejudice of any kind is a monolith. Do you know what I mean? Like, you can have extremely strong lefty liberal principles in one area of it and then have total blind spots in others, which we've seen with trans community. Again, you know, there are. There are plenty of gay and lesbian people who are anti drafts.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, totally. Within the Korean community.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes, of course there are. Yeah. Yeah. And like, that's. It's interesting. I, you know, I remember coming out of that sort of very online lefty moment of the 2010s that we kind of. The word ally was treated as though it were this kind of rubber stamp you gave somebody after a series of tests and then you could take it away or whatever. But actually there is no such thing as buying an ally. There is only being a mensch.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Do you know what I mean? And, like, you know what I mean? You just have to sort of choose to be a mensch every day.

[Kate Young]

This is the thing. Allyship is not like allyship is a verb. It is not a label you get to give yourself. It's a verb.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kate Young]

You get to do it or you don't.

[Kalya Donahue]

Another little detail of this wedding I really enjoy is that Susan is walked down the aisle by both of her parents. Her dad a military man, and her mum just like a very Republican blonde woman.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

And I'm not here to defend the military because they've not done great things to my country specifically.

[Kate Young]

Sure. And at this time, it was just very don't ask, don't tell this Is very don't ask, don't tell.

[Kalya Donahue]

Right.

[Kate Young]

In the military.

[Kalya Donahue]

But there's like something very moving about having these very straight looking military people.

[Kate Young]

Being the parents who show up.

[Kalya Donahue]

I have to think that was a deliberate choice. Yeah. Being like, we know this is don't ask, don't tell.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And they were intentionally putting this man who is a highly decorated person.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. He wears a uniform.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, Right.

[Kate Young]

He wears a uniform to walk his daughter down the aisle.

[Kalya Donahue]

I. I know some people, like, for example, Deep friend of the Paha Jain county is. Is from military. Military stock. But, like, her parents are among the more liberal sort of people that I know. And it's because they've lived all over the world and they've seen a lot of human experience and they're like, they love sort of like talking about sex and taking edibles and stuff. They're great. I mean, and like, it's like, you can't like, again, nothing is a monolith.

[Kate Young]

No, no, it's. He is such an interesting man. We find out so little about apart from the fact that he enjoys his pig in a blanket.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Joey comes up and tells him later, I rolled that bad boy.

[Kalya Donahue]

And Joanne's really impressed with it.

[Kate Young]

He's really impressed. Yeah. He's like, yeah, great pig in blanket, actually. So we have Carol and Susan's wedding. It is our third. We have given it a 10 for FOMO. Because I want to be in that room.

[Kalya Donahue]

Love that room. I love big boos out that way.

[Kate Young]

Big boos at that wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

From Orange's new vibe.

[Kate Young]

Yes, indeed. Famous lesbian.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

I can't wait to meet all of those lesbians.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Can't wait to dance with them. Can't wait to hang out.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's a great one.

[Kate Young]

It's such a nice vibe. Yeah, it's such a nice vibe. It is, though, a quite shit room. And the style is very. Lots of draping fabrics, lots of, like, weird crushed velvets.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

We've given it a three for style. And I think that that is correct. I think that's correct.

[Kalya Donahue]

That's correct. Sorry, guys.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, sorry, guys. And narratively, they are not the central friends.

[Kalya Donahue]

No.

[Kate Young]

And so it struggles to be higher than seven, but it is seven because it is a big deal for Ross in the same way that Barry and Mindy's wedding is a big deal for Rachel.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Like, it's a big narrative moment for him to go, I am watching my wife not be my wife, be somebody else's wife.

[Kalya Donahue]

And I think he still continues to be taking with Caesar. He does, but.

[Kate Young]

But I think there is something here about him walking her down the aisle that is incredibly important to this narrative and to this whole arc that he goes on.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. Because I think with both galleries, they're incredibly inflexible people. They are very insistent that their way is the right way. And opening up whenever Ross opens up his mind a bit to other things, it's quite moving.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Yeah, it really is. And I think it's a good moment. And so we end up with a score of 6.66 recurring.

[Kalya Donahue]

I love how we could have just added up all the numbers so easily.

[Kate Young]

We could have given it 30. Or, like, we've got the recurrings.

[Kalya Donahue]

We must do averages out of 10.

[Kate Young]

Out of 10. Come on.

[Kalya Donahue]

Is there anything else that happens on that? It's Monica and the catering.

[Kate Young]

It's Monica and the catering.

[Kalya Donahue]

Oh, something else happens in that episode that's very significant. Again with Rachel, our main character.

[Kate Young]

Oh, my God.

[Kalya Donahue]

Which is that Rachel's mother, who we only realized this time around was the actress who played the main character in that girl, which is a historic, like, sort of 70s, I think New York sitcom looks like 70s. That picture that we were looking at, which I've never. I mean, I don't know if it's New York, actually. Maybe it's not.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

But whatever. But it's a famous sitcom about a girl who comes to the city. I'm sure, though, American listeners are, like, tearing out their hair that we've never heard of this.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

I know about that girl from Context Clues and other media, but I don't know anything else about that girl. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

She moves from her hometown of Brewster, New York, to make it big in New York City. So it is great. She's coming to New York City.

[Kalya Donahue]

And that is the actress who plays Rachel's mom. And for the iconic line, you didn't marry your Berry, sweetie, but I married mine. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

It's really, really moving to imagine that Rachel. Yeah, that that would have been Rachel's life. And Rachel, like, struggling with her parents splitting up is very much like a recognition of the ways in which that that kind of marriage would have been bad for her, too.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And that she would have hit a point of going, I want to be someone else and somewhere else, and I can't be this person for this man anymore.

[Kalya Donahue]

And it's a really important part of anybody's maturity, I think, is that when that age that you get where your parents start confiding in you.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Because something I've definitely. I think many people find this. Is that when your parents are of, like, the, you know, baby boomer or whatever, is that they have been. It's really been instilled in them that, like, you don't really share your intimate stuff with people outside the family. And so when you get to the point when you're an adult as well, and you start being that person that you're. If you're lucky.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

It is a privilege in many ways for your parents that sharing with it takes you a few years to recalibrate, I think.

[Kate Young]

Totally.

[Kalya Donahue]

You know.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. To feel like, oh, I have this information and I need to accept it as a person rather than as a person who is your daughter.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

Who is having feelings of being a child and not. And this not being fair.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Going the way I thought it would go. Or this reshaping my vision of you.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And. And seeing your parents as people instead.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. And it's tough.

[Kate Young]

It's tough.

[Kalya Donahue]

Like, it's a cliche for a reason.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And it's.

[Kate Young]

It's really interesting watching Rachel do it in this. And, like. And she struggles with it over many seasons. Like, she keeps struggling with it and. And I think in a very. In a way that feels very true and very good.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

But, yeah, I think it's. It's lovely knowing that Rachel. Because Rachel is.

[Kalya Donahue]

So.

[Kate Young]

She comes to New York and. And she really pushes for a big career.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

She wouldn't have had that at all. No. The whole thing with Barry was she wasn't gonna work. She was just. She was gonna not work in his place. He was gonna be his wife. And.

[Kalya Donahue]

I know.

[Kate Young]

And just. And, like, she's gonna have kids quite young, and. And that is a life that I think that in another world is really good for her.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

But it's not good for the Rachel that we know and the Rachel that we meet in the pilot and the Rachel, like, who exists by the end of the show.

[Kalya Donahue]

There's a real. There's a realism to her, to all of their careers, I think. I mean, there's a lot about, like, oh, the apartments are too big, and blah, blah, blah. All that kind of stuff. Fine. But in terms of, like, she literally starts separating hangers at Bloomingdale. Oh.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And then we slowly get her up to, like, junior buyer and then eventually to Ralph Lauren.

[Kate Young]

It's, like, very.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's like a very realistic and satisfying career arc for somebody.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Yeah. She was. She was really doing the grunt work at the start.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And then yeah, she happens to meet Mark and it's good timing. And she's at, you know, Monica's diner and he's there at the bar and he's like, oh, I actually know there's a job going in Bloomingdale so I could recommend you. And like, that's how that shit happens.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, it literally is how that shit happens.

[Kate Young]

That's. That's the right way for that to have gone. Yeah, yeah. And then at the end she's like choosing between, you know, high powered jobs at Ralph Lauren and Louis Vuitton and they're fighting over her and yeah, you know, paying all her moving costs and giving her a huge salary and flying Ross back and forth if she wants. Like, that's a real 10 year trajectory of well done, babe.

[Kalya Donahue]

Well, you knew what you were you doing all by yourselves.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, I love her.

[Kalya Donahue]

Girls doing it all by themselves. Girls doing it all by themselves. Most emotional theme she is. Oh, God.

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[Kate Young]

You look the same.

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[Kalya Donahue]

You haven't changed your hair in 15. Sell these.

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[Kate Young]

Can I make my site softer?

[Kalya Donahue]

Can I make my site firmer?

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[Kate Young]

Next on our list. So there are two weddings left on our list and the next one is Phoebe and Mike, which we just watched today.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's so beautiful. It's so beautiful.

[Kate Young]

It's such a beautiful wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

The styling is the best of all of them. Yeah, styling 10.

[Kate Young]

It's gorgeous. Everyone looks stunning. And I don't think it's just that it's the most recent and therefore the closest in fashion memory. Like, that's not really relevant because it's Tezzan 4. They all just look like the most beautiful versions of themselves.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Rachel's hair is incredible. Phoebe looks unbelievable.

[Kalya Donahue]

Those bridesmaids dresses are phenomenal. And my only gripe is that we don't see more of them. I'm like, I want to see those dresses move.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. It's because they're wearing coats as well. Because of the coats.

[Kalya Donahue]

But it's like, I can't believe they got those. They look like Vivienne Westwood dresses.

[Kate Young]

They're so beautiful.

[Kalya Donahue]

They're stunning. They're kind of this sort of sequined. Sequined but bust sort of situation. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

But not, like, super fitted. Just.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, like.

[Kate Young]

Just, like, hangs on them both so beautifully. So it's Rachel and Monica wearing it.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And with silk bows around their middle.

[Kalya Donahue]

And then there's beautiful, kind of almost taffeta.

[Kate Young]

Taffeta skirts.

[Kalya Donahue]

And because it's a winter wedding. There's something so glamorous about a winter wedding.

[Kate Young]

It's gorgeous. And I think they had the, like, narrative benefit here of Phoebe and Mike's wedding. Needed to be before the end of the show. It couldn't be the final thing that happens.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

Because the final thing that happens has to be, like, them all moving out and. Yeah, all of them moving out. And so you have this opportunity mid season. The only other wedding that is mid season is Carol and Susan's. All the rest finish the seasons because they're a big.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes. They're summer weddings.

[Kate Young]

They're summer weddings. And this one is. You get the snow. And it's the most sitcom of all the weddings in that it does exactly what sitcom weddings generally tend to do, which is some crisis has occurred. A vastly reduced number of people are here. We're doing this in a way that is a bit weird. We're doing it in a way that means a lot to us.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

We are talking Ben and Leslie in Parks and Rec and the fact that they're getting married, like, in the Office.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

We are talking Jess and Nick in New Girl and the fact that they have to get together, married in a hospital because one of the other characters is having a baby. Which, like all of those ones where you have a plan for a wedding and you imagine you're building towards it all season, but actually, in the end, it's just the core characters in a room. And that's lovely.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

And so they get to play this game with Phoebe and Mike here and it's so beautiful.

[Kalya Donahue]

So, so, okay, we talked about the bridesmaids dresses, but then Phoebe's dress, which we don't reveal until the last.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

She takes her coat off and then you. And you literally hear the live studio owns go.

[Kate Young]

It's such a beautiful moment because as.

[Kalya Donahue]

Well with styling in Phoebe, it is all over the place.

[Kate Young]

All over the place.

[Kalya Donahue]

You get like interesting outfits that you're like, cool. But it's like a lot.

[Kate Young]

Often it's just a lot of print, a lot of chaos, a lot of like quite ill fitting things. Like she's beautiful.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And she's so often in like a shirt that's like a like long sleeve tank that's not long enough for her. Like long sleeve shirts. That's not long enough.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes. Yeah. And like, I think that it, I think that is very a character choice. It doesn't make me mad because like Rachel and get to wear great clothes. Exactly. And Phoebe often and her early season stuff where she's a lot more kind of boho.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. The boho dresses and big skirts and yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

Her kind of folk singer outfits really big time are beautiful. But. Yeah. Then as, as it goes on, it's like a lot of big ugly necklaces.

[Kate Young]

As well, which again, it all makes sense. And it's all the time too. Like, it's all.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

This was not a great style era.

[Kalya Donahue]

And I also think she was always going to be that character who wore a lot of jewelry.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And it's also a personal thing I have about Phoebe is I think she will never be a character who like gets out of thrifting. I think she would always be like going through. Not like a fancy thrift shop. She's going through a goodwill being. Like, I don't think that people who grow up in that kind of poverty lose those kind of instincts. So the fact that her clothes are sort of jumbled together makes complete sense to me. Even when she's like touching 40, you know?

[Kate Young]

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. That makes some real sense for her as a character. But it means that when she walks out in this like pearlescent, like silver gray, like somewhere beautiful shade of gray. Such a beautiful shade. And it's so gorgeous against her hair and her skin. She looks luminous.

[Kalya Donahue]

And her hair is so curly as well, like it was in the early seasons. It's beautiful because they really make a mistake with her hair. It's like it goes very yellow in the later season and it's very flat, very straightened. And because she has this big expressive face, she just doesn't look her best in later seasons. And, like, just the big curly hair. Like, it's so beautiful. Everything about it is beautiful.

[Kate Young]

It's gorgeous.

[Kalya Donahue]

All those styling things. If any of my friends had a wedding with those dresses, I would be like, you have the most stylish wedding I've anyone ever met.

[Kate Young]

It's heaven. And Mike looks extraordinary. His suit's so beautiful.

[Kalya Donahue]

And he's just always happy to see Paul Rudd.

[Kate Young]

Always happy to see Paul Rudd. He's great.

[Kalya Donahue]

And there's something as well about all the boys in Like. And Joey wears it very well. The sort of tuxedo in a winter coat.

[Kate Young]

Tuxedo in a winter coat. It's a great New York look.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so Batman's parents. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Brilliant.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's a great look for men.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And, like, I think one of our favorite things about this wedding is it's Joey. It's Joey.

[Kate Young]

It's Joey. In this wedding over.

[Kalya Donahue]

These days where we've been watching Friends together.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

We've had a lot of very deep conversations about Joey. Yeah, we love Joey so much.

[Kate Young]

We love Joey a lot.

[Kalya Donahue]

And the most important thing about Joey, I think, is that. I think for a long time after the show and because he did the show, Joey, which was not very good.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

There was a real sense. Correct, I guess, of, like, they make Joey too stupid. Yeah. It's, like, just not real.

[Kate Young]

They don't leave him in a place of, like.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, everyone else is married off and coupled off. And they do deal with that in the final episodes of. Of, like, they're gonna have a room for Joey. There's something a bit sad about that. But if you actually zoom out and look at Joey's life, you will see the perfect aspirational model of what it is to be a person who is single and childless, but who's, like, family are their friends and friends are their family. Like, it's so beautiful the way he is, like, the emotional anchor for so many of these characters.

[Kate Young]

And truly, like, at so many different points, like, people are coming to Joey now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the final seasons, despite, like, if you leave aside the fact that they make him an absolute idiot in so many ways, he's actually becomes this, like, real sage of, like, yeah, I'm here to support. I'm here for you. I love you. Like, he. Rachel goes to him. She goes to him when she's pregnant. She goes to, like, she is like, obviously, I'm gonna have to move out. And he's like, well, no, you Will live here with Emma. And that will be lovely.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Like, we'll have the baby here. We'll put the crib here. This is going to be great. Like, he just. Just.

[Kalya Donahue]

He is family and he's Phoebe's person. He's Phoebe's person. Anytime they acknowledge that they're all best friends but Phoebe and Joey are the best friends.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

That whole thing of like every month we get dinner to discuss you all.

[Kate Young]

It's so nice.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's like. It's also how we all operate.

[Kate Young]

Totally. It's really true that they have this like independent thing that we don't see on screen that often.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

But that is like, it really exists just between the two of them.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. And he's like Chandler's person.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

He's Monica's confidante. Yeah. He's a secret keeper for Chandler and Monica. And I think why it's so. So aspirational as well, because I think. And I know there'll be people who are listening who are single and of an age when it feels weird to be single and they're made to feel uncomfortable to be single. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

I gotta say, like, I've. I have a girlfriend now.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

But the. You know, I have been single my whole life until this past year.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. This is your longest relationship.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. It's a year coming up to a year. And it's the longest relationship I've. Romantic relationship I've ever had.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And it's. I have spent all my 20s and most of my 30s being a single person surrounded by lots of people in couples.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And that. And like people having kids and people getting married and all sorts of stuff. And it's. I love it. And I think that looking from the outside, a lot of people like, oh, what a sad. What a sad life. And you don't have anyone in.

[Kalya Donahue]

But Kate won't have anyone there.

[Kate Young]

Won't have anyone there.

[Kalya Donahue]

And we.

[Kate Young]

What will you do and how that be? And I'm like, my life has been really great.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And it's really great. Now. That's not discounting. It's not saying that it's not beautiful now. But it is like, it was a thing that I really relished and enjoyed. And. And it's a role that I still often play because I. I love this version of coming and being friends with a couple and friends with two couples. And like, there's lots of structures and. And setups in my life where I love being an. An additional person in that relationship. Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

We have put too Much emphasis on this kind of strange shaming of the idea of the third wheel.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's really crazy. And like the. Yes. But what often happens and what is rarely depicted is that when. So when people couple off or when they have kids or whatever, there is this tendency of the. And I do this.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, it's the.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's the we. It's the us, of course.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

We're the hermetically sealed thing and we have secrets away from the rest of everybody else and everything. And that can often mean that when you're struggling for whatever reason, that you either can't involve your partner because it's sensitive to them or because they just don't have the resource to be with you right now because they're working or whatever. The people who are. The people you go to are the Joeys.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

They're the K's. And that. Because they are. It's not that they're constantly available. They have their own stuff. Yeah, yeah. They have a level of bandwidth and is so generous and beautiful and can really hold you in that space. And they are the people who are, like, propping up these friend groups.

[Kate Young]

It's a bandwidth I'm very proud of. Like, it's a bandwidth that I will retain. And that feels very important to me.

[Kalya Donahue]

Right.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And it's not. I'm not trying to say that anyone is living in service anybody else, but.

[Kate Young]

You know what I mean? It's not that. But it is like. It is a way of having friendship and having friends and being friends with couples and with people that I have been. It has been very moving and important to me in my adult life and is not how I thought my adult life would look. I was, you know, I am. I put my hand up a recovering Monica. I spent my entire childhood being a Monica. I like. I did not lose the weight, so I remain a larger person. But I was a person who had very specific ideas of how life needed to look. Was. I'm so much reassured by control and numbers and structure.

[Kalya Donahue]

Our baking episode. We talk about this. Exactly.

[Kate Young]

Oh, yeah. Go back and listen to the baking episode. But it is. Yeah, there was. It was hugely in. You know, I. For years, I would watch Friends and be like, I am Monica. I am 100 monica. That is exactly who I am. And it feels very like I. I have found a place to, like, develop boundaries and develop a greater sense of self awareness and also to, like, ask myself what it is I want in life in a way that I don't think Monica has And part of that was coming out and part of that was friendship groups and part of that was work. And all of these things have contributed to that sense of self that I feel like I have now. But I have a great sense of having been a Monica and feeling that anxiety of wanting everything to be exactly the way that you want it to be. And she is so that in this episode. And it's horrible to watch. And it's quite nice now to look at it and be like, I recognize her and I feel that. And I know that feeling. Yeah, she's horrible. In the second place, she's so tough to watch. But I feel now much more like a Joey in the game.

[Kalya Donahue]

You are. God. You evolved to be Joey.

[Kate Young]

And that's a really. That's, I think, like, to evolve from a Monica into a Joey. I'm quite.

[Kalya Donahue]

Just the cleverest Joey.

[Kate Young]

Unusual. Unusual trajectory.

[Kalya Donahue]

Wow.

[Kate Young]

But, yeah, I feel. I feel very close to Joey in this episode. I feel very close to this sense of, like.

[Kalya Donahue]

This is of expansiveness.

[Kate Young]

Of expansiveness of, like, true love.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

In lots of different ways. And he comes from a very structured family.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

He's like seven sisters. He. There's a. An episode early on that we. We saw which was. Is it the first episode? No, it's not the first episode. It was at the end of their lesbian wedding, I think. Which is. Which of this do you think will be first to get married? And everyone's like, oh, I was actually married. I had a wedding, but I wasn't. Ross was married. And then they're like, okay, so which one do you think will be the last?

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

And everyone looks at Chandler.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Because at that time, it's really. The narrative is very like, yeah, Joey sleeps around, but, you know, he's a big family guy from, you know, a big Italian family from Queens. Like, he is going to have a family. He's going to have a wife. He's going to do this, he's going to do that. And we're. Now, we get 10 years later, and it's like, that's not what his life looks like. But his life is rich and expansive and lovely and full of people who adore him. And that's very moving.

[Kalya Donahue]

That's an unendingly beautiful theme to me as well. When people, like, end up having different lives than the ones I thought they would have. But it's. It's so much more beautiful.

[Kate Young]

So much more beautiful.

[Kalya Donahue]

Very Charlotte and Sex in the City.

[Kate Young]

It's very Charlotte and Sex in the City.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's very like the reverse trajectory or something.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. And it's very Miranda as well. It's very like, her life is joyous in a way that she could not have anticipated when she was 32.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. Plans are what happens when you're making other life.

[Kate Young]

Exactly.

[Kalya Donahue]

You know, and. And the way in which that is that he is. He.

[Kate Young]

He is Phoebe's person, and that is.

[Kalya Donahue]

The first sort of scene of the episode is when she goes to him. And, like, I will never not be blown away by, like, Lisa Kudrow's acting or whatever. And I think I know that the. The note from when I've listened to podcasts with the creators before, they were like, the whole thing with Phoebe is that the most, like, sort of traumatic things have happened to her, but she wears them so lightly.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Like Koda. Because she had Stu. Like.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

If she were living on the street. Yeah. She would break and she would never come back together. And so she's so strong and so, like, flippant about, like, oh, yeah, my stepfather's in prison and he was supposed.

[Kate Young]

To be stabbed, this guy, but now he can't.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. And then it's like she asks Joey because she's like, you're kind of like a father to me or whatever. And it's, like, really funny. And he's, like, hectoring Paul Rudd about it.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. But then I. But, like, the kind of subtext is. Is that, like, he knows that nobody else will do this work for Phoebe. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

You know, and when they're sitting on the sofa at the start and, like. And on that couch that they're on so many times, and she just says to him, like, I want. You know, I really love you. Like, you mean a lot to me. And I feel like a lot here. And I can't even remember what words she says, but he just turns around and can't handle it. And it's all played cry.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

It's all played for laughs. But it's very true. She's like, I hope. Oh, she says, I hope you know how much you mean to me.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

I hope you know how much you mean to me.

[Kalya Donahue]

And also, it's so cuny that she, like, does not do this with the other boys. Does not do this.

[Kate Young]

This is the thing. Phoebe. Phoebe loves Joey. She loves Monica. She loves Rachel. The others are there. And she is very clear about that. She at no point pretends that she has equal friendships with the six of them.

[Kalya Donahue]

No. Which is so real.

[Kate Young]

So real. She's like, yeah, you're also here. Cool.

[Kalya Donahue]

Right? Like, her and Ross spar a lot.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

I can't really think of any Phoebe and Chandler moments.

[Kate Young]

There's some really nice bits, like when he. When he and Kathy break up and he's, like, playing a record and she comes in and sings with him. And, like, there's really moving moments that are really beautiful between them. But they are, like, sparse through the series.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cute. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

But she just loves Joey, and that's really nice.

[Kalya Donahue]

I also just love this episode for the kind of real world entrance of, like. Yeah. Mike has.

[Kate Young]

Mike has his own life. Mike has his own life. And actually, if you've not asked. If you've not been asked to be groomsmen until the night of the rehearsal dinner you're probably not gonna be like, he's got other friends.

[Kalya Donahue]

So good. When Rachel's like, oh, these guys.

[Kate Young]

These guys were just kind of wondering what they're doing tomorrow and just like, well, nothing. Mike has friends, man. Yeah. It's very good. It's very well done. Because it's very true. It's very true that Mike would have his own. Mike is like an adult in his late 30s by this point. He's got a career as a. As a pianist.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes. At a bar we went to. Not because it was a friend's bar, because we were in New York.

[Kate Young]

We were in New York. He's got that job. He's got his own life. He's got. He's just got stuff. And he's got pals. Of course he does. There's another group of people that exist outside this show.

[Kalya Donahue]

And he has Chappie the dog.

[Kate Young]

He has Chappie the dog.

[Kalya Donahue]

Here's my stern opinion.

[Kate Young]

Come on.

[Kalya Donahue]

I don't think dogs should ever be at weddings. I think there's. Unless it's a service animal, I do not think. And I have a dog. She's sitting next to you right now, all snuggly and nice. I. I think that the second a dog comes to a wedding, it becomes the dog's wedding. Everyone's, like, looking at the dog. You should be looking at the bride.

[Kate Young]

Sylph is not at your wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

No.

[Kate Young]

And she's one of your best friends.

[Kalya Donahue]

She is my best friend. I have known her in many lives.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And in some of those lives, I was her dog.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, sure. But not at your wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

No. First of all, dogs hate going on holidays.

[Kate Young]

Well, this is it. Dogs hate to be in a new place. Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

To, like, hate it. To look around and be like, where's my familiar things? Oh, Nowhere. Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

A dog can keep like three locations in its head. Is it in terms of, like, you know.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

People's apartments or whatever that enjoys going to, like, they don't want to be at the wedding and you don't want to deal with it. And like, like, don't let anyone take their dog to your wedding. Don't let it happen. Even if it's a dog friendly hotel. Because dog friendly hotels are the fucking worst. Dogs hate going on holidays. Do not have a dog at a wedding.

[Kate Young]

But we do have Chappie.

[Kalya Donahue]

We have Chappie. I think Chappie is well cast.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

I love when an animal is well cast.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, absolutely. It looks like a dog that Ross doesn't want to hold.

[Kalya Donahue]

Exactly. It's the ultimate. Why dog would die, you know?

[Kate Young]

Exactly. And that Mike's family would absolutely have and love.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

That makes sense to me.

[Kalya Donahue]

Love it. I love when they're walking down the aisle to the steel drums.

[Kate Young]

Like, fools rush in. Yeah, like fools rush in. Playing and just being like, no, we really, we really earned this. Like, they didn't rush in. Phoebe wanted to get married, Mike didn't. They broke up. Mike went away, did a bunch of reckoning. Do I want to be with Phoebe? Like, do I want to. Will I get married if it means I can be with Phoebe? Yes. I'm gonna come back. I'm gonna, like, David is here, but now I'm here and it's really important that I'm here. And like, they feel hard won. They really worked on it as adults. They didn't meet as kids. They met like, when they were fully formed people.

[Kalya Donahue]

And it's so difficult to sell in a new person.

[Kate Young]

Oh, yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

With this, like, sort of solid a cast after this long. I mean, they failed conclusively with Emily. You know, it speaks to the raw charisma of Paul Rudd. And also how dearly we feel about.

[Kate Young]

Phoebe as a cast, about Phoebe being happy and Phoebe having family. And in fact, you wrote out her vows.

[Kalya Donahue]

Can I read? Can I read your vows? When I was growing up, I didn't have a normal mom and dad or a regular family like everybody else. And I always knew that something was missing. And now I'm standing here today knowing that I have everything that I'm ever gonna need.

[Kate Young]

Need.

[Kalya Donahue]

You are my family. Oh, and I forgot I love you. And you have nice eyes.

[Kate Young]

It's so beautiful.

[Kalya Donahue]

So beautiful. Because, like, these are. These are like 27 minute episodes or whatever they are. Like, you know, and it's really hard to get, like, a whole wedding ceremony in and not lose time. And, like, keep it sincere. But also you have to cut to a joke all the time. That's the format. And so it's so short, but it's so perfect.

[Kate Young]

Like, that is just. And you know what? That's. That's why this. This is the second top wedding. Because that doesn't exist in Monica and Chandler's. There's not enough moments of sincerity. But they do have it in the engagement. Like, sometimes you just have too much to do in a wedding to be, like, funny and create fake drama and do a thing and. And, like, all of that has to happen. And the fake drama in this one, like, the comedy is like, Monica's insane and the boys thought they'd be involved and they're not. And the, like, the. The drama of it is the snow.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And that's all then out of the way. And the final end section is just like. It's all sincerity. There's, like, few jokes scattered through. But it's just. Phoebe gets a real moment to be, like, a romantic lead, which she never gets in the show. She's never the romantic lead.

[Kalya Donahue]

No.

[Kate Young]

And it's beautiful watching her, like, be so, so in love.

[Kalya Donahue]

And there's something like. And I. These are, like, comedy writers, right? And, like, I imagine it was such joy over so many years to be like, let's think of another up thing that happened to Phoebe. But I have to imagine, like, no matter who the characters are, you get so deeply attached that it must have felt so lovely to just be like, we all know in this room what this woman, what this woman has been through.

[Kate Young]

We made it up. We know how important this is. It's the same reason why when she breaks up with Mike, because she's like. When everybody is sort of saying to her, like, well, do you need to get married? Like, yeah, I kind of imagine maybe you wouldn't. Or do you want kids? Do you want this? And she's like, yeah, I want a really, like, picture of normal family. I want a husband and I want kids and I want to have a Volvo and I want to take those kids to school and I want to, like, take him to soccer practice. And she's like, that's. That's the mum I want to be. And that's the kind of family I want to have. And it's really moving watching her not have to compromise that because there is a world in which they're like, well, Phoebe's kooky. She gets the weird stuff and It'll be fine. She'll be happy with stuff. And instead being like, no. What's really important to Phoebe is she is chosen as somebody's family. And she gets to say that in front of everyone who she loves and who matters to her. I just think it's really good.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's really good. Love it.

[Kate Young]

I love it.

[Kalya Donahue]

Okay, we're, like, way over time. We need to.

[Kate Young]

Sorry. Yes. Score it.

[Kalya Donahue]

And then to our final baby.

[Kate Young]

And Mike. 10 out of 10 for FOMO. I want to be in the snow.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

We want to be there. We're desperate to be there. I don't know what they do afterwards. There's no details about reception. They're home at 11. And that's weird. But still. Still, I. I want to be there.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Style 10. They all look stunning. It's gorgeous.

[Kalya Donahue]

10.5.

[Kate Young]

10.5. Beautiful narrative five. Stuff's happening, but it's not a lot. It's like, narratively, we're wrapping things up. We're wrapping things up. And that is, I think, the season 10 of it all. The fact that we're approaching the end anyway. And so we end up with an average score of 8.33 recurring.

[Kalya Donahue]

This is taking me out.

[Kate Young]

It's like my clown act, like, every.

[Kalya Donahue]

Time I pop up. So. Recurring. The new handkerchief coming out your sleeve.

[Kate Young]

Exactly. So our final wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

That we are going to discuss is. Of course.

[Kalya Donahue]

We've all figured it out by now.

[Kate Young]

We've all figured it out. It's Ross and Emily's.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's the best way.

[Kate Young]

Ross and Emily's. End of season four. The one with Ross's wedding. The ones in London.

[Kalya Donahue]

I take thee, Rachel.

[Kate Young]

I take the Rachel.

[Kalya Donahue]

One of the best moments of television drama.

[Kate Young]

I mean, we were watching it earlier this week. It still makes my jaw drop. I know it's coming.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's perfect.

[Kate Young]

It's in. It's. Even if I didn't. Even if I'd never seen this episode, I would have known the words, I take thee, Rachel. And yet it's still. Every time I'm like, yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And the horror.

[Kate Young]

The horror of it. But the truth of it, like, the fact that it is so. All of the. The chaos of, like, Ross and Emily meeting and dating so quickly and, like, trying to. Trying to jump through loads of steps really fast and all of that leading to this incredibly fast wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

It's like, yeah, of course you're not. Not over your ex. And of course you're not fully here in the room. And of course, like, of Course, all of these things are complex in a way that you fail to recognize because you want things to be okay.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And you do love this woman.

[Kate Young]

You really do. He really does love her. Like, I truly buy, like, how sad Ross is in season five when it does. It clearly hasn't worked.

[Kalya Donahue]

She's wonderful and great for him in many ways. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

But he says Rachel, so you can't. You can't do anything.

[Kalya Donahue]

You can't do anything with that.

[Kate Young]

Can't do anything with that.

[Kalya Donahue]

So good.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. But as a wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

As a wedding, it is the wedding that launched a thousand fairy lights.

[Kate Young]

It is so romantic. It's so beautiful.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. The. The brick of the chapel.

[Kate Young]

The brick of the chapel. The fact that it's like a building site that, yes, let's face it, they would never be allowed into.

[Kalya Donahue]

Right. Makes no sense.

[Kate Young]

Makes no sense. None of it makes sense.

[Kalya Donahue]

Sense.

[Kate Young]

But it is so beautiful and it's so romantic that the conversation is kind of like, well, don't worry. We'll just get married another time. And the conversation is like, you've got people flying from him. You can't get married. It's today. Like when. When Ross says. When Ross says to Emily, like, are you saying it's now or never? And she. She's saying to him, is it now or never? And he's like, no, it's now.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, he's right.

[Kalya Donahue]

And he's totally right.

[Kate Young]

You're totally right. It has to be now. Like, you can't invite everyone to England and then be like, oh, guys, the chapel. Sammy, sorry, we're gonna reschedule. Like, no, you find another chapel, you find a thing. He's 100% the right, but it makes it so romantic.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

When he. Like, when he goes there and turns the fairy lights on. And. And this is the thing. This is the thing I feel really emotional about is Monica is there in that moment.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And she is there in this creation of this beautiful wedding. And she's had a real hand in this because there's no way Ross did this on his own. She's really set this up.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

She can do it for someone else, but she can't do it for her.

[Kalya Donahue]

Oh, fuck.

[Kate Young]

She visually really has a hand in that wedding in a way that is really.

[Kalya Donahue]

She's able to totally picture problems on the space. Know what Emily would want.

[Kate Young]

Know what Emily would want to think about Emily and Ross and what they can need and, like, the fact that this venue is incredibly important to Emily. What are we gonna do? How are we Gonna manage that. But she can't do it for a.

[Kalya Donahue]

Second because she has no taste or sense of.

[Kate Young]

Of self awareness or like.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah. She's. No, she is me. It's really tough.

[Kate Young]

She's like constantly trying to be somebody.

[Kalya Donahue]

That's so upsetting. And the thing is like. Yes. Are we being overly fucked up about made up characters? Sure, sure. But the reason this hit me is because I know women like this. I know these women.

[Kate Young]

You've been to weddings like that?

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She doesn't know who she is. Weddings.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Fuck me.

[Kate Young]

And what's. Yeah. What's really nice is being at a wedding where you're like, this is so you. And Monica and Chandler's wedding is so un them that the next day somebody could have the same wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

But okay, so we have the venue itself.

[Kate Young]

The venue itself is so.

[Kalya Donahue]

I remember an interior designer telling me once that the secret to a great room is five sources of light, including the window.

[Kate Young]

Well, there you go. That's what this is.

[Kalya Donahue]

Right? Everything is about more light sources of different kinds of different tempos. Best if you want to make a room good. If you want to make a wedding good.

[Kate Young]

It's all like candles, it's glowing, it's beautiful. Everyone looks stunning. The like the color palette of it being light white, black and the red bridesmaids dresses and red accents of flowers is so beautiful in that brick space. It's just gorgeous.

[Kalya Donahue]

Gorgeous. And also the wedding dress is not my favorite, but it's very her.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

It feels very her.

[Kate Young]

It feels her.

[Kalya Donahue]

It feels very bolero.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's kind of got a baby doll cut because she's got a very petite frame which sort of works.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Like it feels like a Jane Austen girly wedding. I mean, but also filtered through like what is available in wedding shops at that time. You know?

[Kate Young]

Exactly that.

[Kalya Donahue]

The hair. I don't love on her.

[Kate Young]

No. But it's also very of the time.

[Kalya Donahue]

Very of the time. A really styled updo with loads of curls.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, it looks exactly. Yeah, yeah. We are talking. This one was May 1998, right?

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, of course.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

And then the bridesmaids dresses which we had a little. Yeah, they're great. But they don't look like bridesmaids.

[Kate Young]

They don't look like bridesmaids dresses. But I think in many ways of the time maybe like, maybe there's a version of. Because they before the brides dresses went this way are very like. We're very simple.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

We're very like shift. It's like long shift dresses.

[Kalya Donahue]

Like long.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, Just long spaghetti strap, simple dresses. In a rejection of the absolute style of.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

Rachel was in at Mindy and Barry's wedding, like two years earlier. It's very. The opposite of that.

[Kalya Donahue]

That's the interesting thing is like, people talk about decades. Like they are confined to those. Those 10 years, but actually the 80s went on.

[Kate Young]

Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Kalya Donahue]

And definitely a little older in Long Island. Yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

The reception less stylish in that they're in Emily's family's house, her dad and her stepmother's house. Those. Oh, my God. Perfect.

[Kalya Donahue]

Tom Conti and Jennifer Saunders.

[Kate Young]

Absolutely perfectly cast walls of material.

[Kalya Donahue]

Walls of materials.

[Kate Young]

Am I on the radio?

[Kalya Donahue]

When she says, am I on the radio? She's so good. It's so good. And it's so. It's like the perfect encapsulation. Because what's happening for those who remember is that Phoebe, Rachel has flown to London last minute to try and talk Ross about getting married. Phoebe thinks it's a terrible idea. She's trying to ring everybody and get through.

[Kate Young]

Phoebe is on her own because she is pregnant both in real life and in the show in her third trimester.

[Kalya Donahue]

So, like, the actress was left out and the character's left out and she's trying to get through to everybody and she gets through to Jennifer Saunders eventually. And she's trying to explain. Explain or whatever. He's like, I'm here having my brother's triplets and blah, blah, blah. And she's Jennifer, go. Am I on the radio?

[Kate Young]

So good.

[Kalya Donahue]

But yes, radio prank calls.

[Kate Young]

It's.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, they were, they were.

[Kate Young]

They were a thing. They were a thing.

[Kalya Donahue]

They would just call up any member of the public. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

When. When people's numbers were in the phone book.

[Kalya Donahue]

Crazy. Crazy. In our life, you could just go.

[Kate Young]

Like, down a list.

[Kalya Donahue]

I remember, like, being picked up from school and listening to radio crank calls. My mom, like, crazy.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Nuts, bananas. That. That was a thing.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. So they are a standing up eating steak, which Jack points out is mental. Mental and impossible.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

But it's also the whole thing is a grift. So that the Gellers.

[Kate Young]

The Gellers. Yeah. The Gellers pay for half of this wedding, which is funding the, like, redesign of the wine cellar and all the lawn ornaments.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

So it is. It's a very funny bit. But the reception itself is obviously also colored by the fact that. That Emily is not there.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Emily has locked herself in a bathroom. But that crucially, even if she had been there, it's still, like, quite a weird vibe for a reception to be. Stand up in someone's house with that kind of food.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Like, I can see stand up in someone's house. I can see stand up. I can, you know, all of those things. But there's nowhere to sit.

[Kalya Donahue]

God.

[Kate Young]

There's nowhere to cut your steak.

[Kalya Donahue]

Have you ever met those English people? I remember once being in the green room at a festival talking to this woman and I was planning my wedding at the time, and I was like. And she was a bit older than me. I was like, where did you get married? And she was. Oh, at home. And I was. It was like one of those moments where I was like, oh, you're a countess. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And you don't mean at home in the way that. No, yeah, in the way that I understand at home to be.

[Kalya Donahue]

You mean that you live in a National Trust property and your parents still live there.

[Kate Young]

Exactly, yeah. Whereas I would say in Australia, my parents got married at home and my sister is going to have a, like, big wedding party when I go back to in November. And. Because you just have space in Australia.

[Kalya Donahue]

Oh, of course you do.

[Kate Young]

That's the thing that you have. It's like outdoor space. Like, we are doing that in her back garden and it's going to be beautiful in amongst all her plants. So there are, like, versions of that that I believe, but not in England. In England. That really makes that family a very specific type of family.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes. And they do exist. And they live in London.

[Kate Young]

They live in London. Yeah, they fully live in London.

[Kalya Donahue]

So I wonder what neighborhood they live in.

[Kate Young]

I know what kind of house that is. Well, the wedding. The wedding. The church is in Wapping.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes. Yeah. It is so funny, that.

[Kate Young]

So funny. It's in Wapping.

[Kalya Donahue]

And is it like the chapel is important because it was where she grew up. Maybe. So they just live in a massive house in Wapping. I guess they exist.

[Kate Young]

They exist. But, yeah, it feels. That feels weird.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

That feels like a weird understanding of London.

[Kalya Donahue]

But that's okay.

[Kate Young]

But that's fine. It's like. It's a thing we're totally fine with and really, what a wedding to be at. This is a wedding you would talk about for the rest of your life.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is when everyone's sitting around trading weird wedding stories. This is the one that takes the cake.

[Kate Young]

This is the one.

[Kalya Donahue]

K. Tell us the one about when you went to that whopping wedding and like.

[Kate Young]

And, yeah. And you were there when the groom said the wrong name and the bride locked Herself in the toilet the entire time. And you were eating steak off a plate in the corner surrounded by all your pals.

[Kalya Donahue]

Would miss it for the.

[Kate Young]

What the fuck is happening? Would miss it. Not miss it. Would love this.

[Kalya Donahue]

Great.

[Kate Young]

And I love as well that we get such good Joey in this episode. We get such lovely, warm. Like, the guy you want to travel with, Joey, so important. So important that he arrives into London and is just like, london, London, baby.

[Kalya Donahue]

When he's just, like, standing outside Westminster Abbey with Chandler and he's just like, this is my favorite abbey.

[Kate Young]

Best abbey I've ever seen. Best abbey I've. Hands down, best abbey I've ever seen.

[Kalya Donahue]

You're like, it's such an important lesson because then he buys the big floppy she off of Richard Branson.

[Kate Young]

Virgin sponsored this episode. Obviously, there's so many shots of planes in this episode.

[Kalya Donahue]

Virgin planes. And the. Yeah. And. And, like, he's just being such a heart on his sleeve tourist. He's, like, not trying to pretend he's above it. That thing that people do when they go to a country and they try to pretend they're from that country suddenly.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's like, what are you doing?

[Kate Young]

You are a tourist. Like, yeah, get on board.

[Kalya Donahue]

Right.

[Kate Young]

Do the thing.

[Kalya Donahue]

And the most. Like, when obviously tourists can be annoying.

[Kate Young]

Sure.

[Kalya Donahue]

We've both been tourists.

[Kate Young]

I'm a tourist. We know that.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. We've both been tourists in different countries. Whatever. It's not that. It's that, like, the best thing that you have to offer as a tourist is showing somebody who lives in that place already that you think it's magical.

[Kate Young]

It's magical and cool and amazing.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's a gorgeous energy.

[Kate Young]

It's such a great energy.

[Kalya Donahue]

I really learned this from doing a lot of book tours and traveling alone.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Like, I always begin every talk making sure I say something, again, incredibly specific about the good time I'm having in that specific place and being like, I.

[Kate Young]

Went to that afternoon, I went to that pub around, and it's like, that is so right. You're so right.

[Kalya Donahue]

People love that.

[Kate Young]

People love that. You know, it's like when you called me from Brisbane, you're like, mate, yeah. Why'd you move? The city's amazing. And it was a real, like, love affair moment of Brisbane with me where I was just like, you know what? Seeing it through eyes that didn't grow up there and doesn't have, like, feelings of, like, I want to be in England, which I always had. Yeah, it's real nice place.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's a lovely Place so nice. My hometown of Brisbane.

[Kate Young]

Oh, your hometown of Brisbane. It's so good. But, yeah, I think he is such a lovely energy. We also obviously have Monica and Chandler getting together, which is huge. In response to the fact that somebody asks if she's Ross's mother.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yes.

[Kate Young]

Some incredibly drunk man asks if she's Ross.

[Kalya Donahue]

You must have been a teenager when you had him.

[Kate Young]

It's very narratively important, this episode. It is such a big pin in the show. It's such a massive moment that Ross says the wrong name, which is such an interesting choice to have brought Emily in, but in the writers room, be like, we cannot have her stay around. They bring Mike in season eight, and it's the right time for one of the characters to. To have a person who's not always there but sometimes is. But if you marry Ross and Emily that early.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

She's then a member of the gang and she can't be because these six are the gang and that is the story. So I. I don't know what it would have felt like to watch it that I can't remember. Like, a time where I didn't know what was going to happen.

[Kalya Donahue]

Well, famously, people just, like, hated the people.

[Kate Young]

Hated her. Right?

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah. That actress has spoken out a lot.

[Kate Young]

Right, about the Mitri on Friends fans being like, no, we want him with Rachel or we don't want you in this story at all. And that's tough.

[Kalya Donahue]

Really tough.

[Kate Young]

But this is the way to do it. To do something so massive in this episode, so insane that she can fully, basically never be in the show again. And it's fine.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

It makes total sense.

[Kalya Donahue]

God. And then the sort of the added humiliation of going to the airport and snapping, rachel, get on the plane. God, that woman does horror so well. Psychological horror.

[Kate Young]

Just like. I cannot believe this is the. Like, I cannot believe this is what I'm saying. Oh, my God. She was. She was married a year later. She's fine.

[Kalya Donahue]

She's fine. Emily's fine.

[Kate Young]

Emily's fine.

[Kalya Donahue]

But, yeah, but, yeah, the drama stakes of this wedding are.

[Kate Young]

Could not be higher. Could not be higher.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

They are the highest that it's possible to be. And it feels really like it's important for Phoebe as well in that she's pregnant and that's happening. But it does feel like a real turning point for all the characters. Feels like a turning point for Rachel. It feels like a big turning point for Ross. Definite turning point for Monica and Chandler.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

And Joey, not so much, but, like.

[Kalya Donahue]

But he's a joy.

[Kate Young]

He's a joy. Yeah. You know, I think it is. It's such a good wedding and I want to be there so much.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The best one.

[Kate Young]

And it's so beautiful. And I really do think you're right about the fact that it just. It does. It has had a massive impact on how we see romantic spaces for ceremonies now and how you want to. To decorate a space to be like, this is romantic and beautiful in a wedding.

[Kalya Donahue]

It was incredibly impactful as we imagine it's on Pinterest boards all around the world.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, of course it does.

[Kalya Donahue]

So let's rate this. I mean, we know it's number one.

[Kate Young]

So it's number one. Ross and Emily, FOMO 10. We want to be in the corner eating stage, talking about this. We want to be like. Like Emily's friends. Fringe friends who were just like, what the is going on? What a time.

[Kalya Donahue]

Another tour of the wine cell.

[Kate Young]

Amazing.

[Kalya Donahue]

Give me the tour of the wine cell. I want to see what Jack.

[Kate Young]

8 for style. Because standing up and eating steak in the. In the house.

[Kalya Donahue]

Does we attract.

[Kate Young]

But yeah, it's a 10 for the ceremony. Like, it's a. It's an 11 for the ceremony. And then narrative. It's a 10.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

So we end up with an average score of 9.33 recurring.

[Kalya Donahue]

This has been so thrilling.

[Kate Young]

This has been so good.

[Kalya Donahue]

And I know we're running out of time and we do have to meet our friends at the pub. Our friends.

[Kate Young]

That's true. Our friends.

[Kalya Donahue]

But I do want us to wrap up because obviously Friends ends in season 10.

[Kate Young]

Yes.

[Kalya Donahue]

Let's imagine for one moment that there is an 11th season. And in that season, Ross and Rachel get married. What do we think that wedding would be? Okay.

[Kate Young]

Okay, so I'm thinking one of two ways. When Rachel lies to her dad and says that she is going to marry Ross, when she tells him she's pregnant, he kicks off and she's like, obviously we're getting married. Obviously we're getting married. He calls the Plaza. Like, that is what's happening at that dinner. He's ordering the chateau. Whatever it is. Like, he is ordering the wine. He is booking the plaza. So there is that version of the wedding. And there is also the version of we are going to take our closest friends away and we're gonna elope.

[Kalya Donahue]

I thought beach wedding. Because they haven't done beach wedding.

[Kate Young]

Exactly what I thought too. I thought, yeah, there's. I think that that Plaza one is kind of covered by Monica and Chandler. So I think it's romantic beach wedding. Emma in like a lovely little dress walking down the aisle.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

Just. And, and like small. Because I think what it's not is all the Long island people.

[Kalya Donahue]

No, it's definitely not what it's not.

[Kate Young]

No, I do know.

[Kalya Donahue]

And she, she right. Because yeah, it's, it's Rachel.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, absolutely. Like fashion wise chic as.

[Kalya Donahue]

What do you think she would have worn?

[Kate Young]

I'm seeing short dress. I think short dress. I think like, you know what I'm thinking?

[Kalya Donahue]

I'm thinking not white. I think not blush dress or something, you know.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, a really nice, really nice cut of something. Like she, in the latter season she always, she did wear like a lot of like lovely stuff on shoulders and.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, I think, you know, I think Jennifer Astin, she like wears a lot of Halston, the 70s designer. I could almost see a halter dress with a low back.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Lovely floor length or whatever but still kind of very kind of contemporary looking and whatever. And sort of simple with a very 70s line to it. Yeah, sort of. It kicks out at the end a bit but in, in an off white in like an oyster or a blush or something.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Either back or legs out. Yeah, she was like back.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. I think. And with like one extraordinary detail updo for sure. Sure. Extraordinary earrings.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. You know, so beautiful.

[Kalya Donahue]

I'd love another Jennifer Aston wedding.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, it'd be heaven. But yeah, I think she and Ross, it would be their second wedding. It would be Ross's fourth wedding. I think the beach wedding of it rather than the Plaza is the correct thing. I think that they, they. The way that they come together. Whatever anybody thinks about that. Whether anybody thinks that it should have been Joey. Like whatever anybody thinks about the romance, romantic story here. The way that they come back together is very much like we're not messing around anymore.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

We are not performing this. We are together and we are taking this seriously and we are in love and it's the two of us. And that's how they kind of end the show is them going like it's us.

[Kalya Donahue]

Really good.

[Kate Young]

It's really nice. And I think that then the beach wedding makes a lot of sense. Go back to Barbados when it's not raining.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, right. Or even the Hamptons.

[Kate Young]

Lovely.

[Kalya Donahue]

No, but if it's the Hamptons, she'd have to invite her family. Yeah, no, they're going abroad. It's Mexico. It's something like that, you know.

[Kate Young]

And a really nice, like really nice meal out.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

Nobody like Nice. Nice meal out in a restaurant. Morning.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. It's a wedding and they treat you special.

[Kate Young]

But it's still the restaurant. It's still a restaurant. And you're all in, like, lovely clothes but not a big bridal gown.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. Like 20 people.

[Kate Young]

Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Really good.

[Kate Young]

Heaven.

[Kalya Donahue]

What do you think the comedy drama is? I just plotted all out. What's the whole episode, do you think? Or is that too much to ask?

[Kate Young]

No.

[Kalya Donahue]

That's such a good question after two hours.

[Kate Young]

Well, I. Well, if it was la, Joey's gonna be there. Right? So Joey is already living in LA at this point because he's a big movie star now.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

Which is. I. I've got to confess to never having watched Joey. So I don't know if big movie star is the actual thing that happens or whether it's working actor. He's a working actor in la, so he is like their man on the ground.

[Kalya Donahue]

Right. So he's getting things wrong.

[Kate Young]

He's getting things wrong.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

The chaos of that is happening. Monica and Chandler have, like, the twins.

[Kalya Donahue]

Are what, two Anna Faris twins? Yes.

[Kate Young]

Yes. Anna Faris twins are two or, like one and a half, like, I imagine. It's actually not that long before they get married. I kind of think that they're getting married within the next two years.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah. Yeah. Ross and Rachel, they want to have the same last name before Emma starts school.

[Kate Young]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Big time. I think that's nice for them.

[Kalya Donahue]

That's nice.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. And I like that they're gonna stay. When they. When they were young and dating in seasons two and three, they were very much talking about moving to Scarsdale or moving to, like, upstate New York. I think Ross and Rachel stay in New York City.

[Kalya Donahue]

Absolutely.

[Kate Young]

In a way that Monica and Chandler don't.

[Kalya Donahue]

I'm doing it. Sarah Jessica Parker is doing it.

[Kate Young]

Yes, exactly. And she, like, she works. She keeps working in big fashion house. He's, like, lecturing at nyu. Like, they are very New York people.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

And so Emma, like, grows up in the city, which is really nice. And I think Phoebe might stay as well. So that's a nice vibe.

[Kalya Donahue]

I think the drama of the wedding episode will be that Monica is neurotic about not being part of the main gang anymore. Because they live in Scarsdale. Yeah, yeah. And so it'll be that thing, you know, when a friend feels like they're being pushed out and they try and gain more control, do more. I'm Rachel's best friend.

[Kate Young]

I'm Rachel's best friend, actually.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah. God. The I'm Rachel's best friend of it all, I think, would be quite hard.

[Kate Young]

I think if you're gonna move out of London, you gotta be chic about it.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, that's.

[Kate Young]

That's my feeling. If you're gonna move out of New York, you gotta be cool about it and you gotta come back.

[Kalya Donahue]

You gotta just accept that people will do stuff.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. And you gotta be the person who comes back and visits.

[Kalya Donahue]

Can I tell you as we're wrapping up, this is the great lesson of my 30s.

[Kate Young]

Oh, yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

The great lesson of my 30s has been that I remember being of the real. This is a silly thing to think, but I'm sure many people will relate to it. That thing of, like, getting kind of prickly if your friends hang out without you and your friends becoming friends. People you introduce becoming friends on their own volition. And you're like, oh, we're going to the theater. And you're like, I like the theater.

[Kate Young]

Why was I not.

[Kalya Donahue]

I don't know. Because we were talking about it. You don't. We don't think of you every minute of every day. What I have Learned in my 30s, as my, like, schedule gets more crazy and my friends. Schedules get more crazy. Your friends becoming friends reduces the admin of friendship. Totally. Totally. If you meet up with your friend and she's like, oh, I saw Kate the other day, and she's blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, oh, great. Now I know what's going on with Kate.

[Kate Young]

This is lovely. This is like, everyone's this loop of lovely people who all know and love each other.

[Kalya Donahue]

Right.

[Kate Young]

I love my friends becoming friends.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

I'm such a fan of it.

[Kalya Donahue]

I've only really. In the last few years, I've been like, oh, the greatest thing you could hope for is that all your friends become friends.

[Kate Young]

Is all your friends become friends.

[Kalya Donahue]

Well, I was so neurotic about it in the past.

[Kate Young]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kalya Donahue]

Crazy.

[Kate Young]

I think that there's that. Just that, like, settling of, like, yeah, this is great. We have this great community around us of people who love each other. And that's really nice.

[Kalya Donahue]

You know what's so nice about being in your 30s as well, in your mid-30s, is that like, that kind of sense of, like, obviously you meet new people all the time and they come in and sometimes you become friends and whatever. But, like, the sense that, like, there's sort of, you know, 50 people who you kind of know and over that. And that. That's sort of. And we're sticking with that. We're sticking with that number sort of thing. And. And I. I go through phases of just being very close.

[Kate Young]

People have seasons. They come in and they.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, but they stay in the set.

[Kate Young]

They stay in a set.

[Kalya Donahue]

Like you shake the boggle board, but the. The dice remain the same kind of thing. And that's been like. There's a couple of people who I've reconnected with who I haven't really hung out with in five or six years lately. Like, you and I go through seasons where we see a lot of each.

[Kate Young]

Other, we see loads of each other, and then we don't.

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

And it's because I don't live here.

[Kalya Donahue]

So there's a breathability to my friendships now that I love so much. That was a little bit more anxious in my 20s.

[Kate Young]

Yeah, I think so. Because you're so much more aware of, like, what. Everyone will move on if I'm not there, everyone's gonna move on without me, and they're gonna have this thing that I'm not part of, or if I'm.

[Kalya Donahue]

Not there, everyone's talking about me. Which is also something people grow out of in their 30s as well. I mean, we still do be talking shit, but, like. But I feel like it's more like out of concern and emotion or just.

[Kate Young]

Like, I haven't seen that person this week. Give me an update. Or like, I haven't seen that person this month. How are they?

[Kalya Donahue]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Young]

In a nice way.

[Kalya Donahue]

In a nice way. In a nice way. I really hope that as we go through friends, through a lens, that we really put the lens on ourselves, on our first friends.

[Kate Young]

Exactly.

[Kalya Donahue]

This has been heaven, Kate. I don't know how the day can get better from here, but let's try.

[Kate Young]

Let's try. Let's try. This has been heaven. Thank you.

[Kalya Donahue]

Before we go, tell us about what you've got coming up.

[Kate Young]

You will, in November be able to pre order my cookbook called Dinner at Mine, which is coming out on the 12th of March, which is about living with a non nuclear family. Having a non nuclear family. And it's essentially what to do with various ingredients based on who's around that night. Whether it's just you or you and one other person, or you on a weeknight with some pals, or you on a weekend trying to be fancy.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's the Joey Cookbook.

[Kate Young]

It's the Joey Cookbook.

[Kalya Donahue]

It's like when you are the Joey of the group.

[Kate Young]

Of the group. And it's like people move in and out and. And there's flexibility Here. And what am I going to do with a cabbage? 6 ideas for a cabbage.

[Kalya Donahue]

Had such an underdone cabbage at a restaurant yesterday.

[Kate Young]

It was, like, really chewy.

[Kalya Donahue]

It was billed as a crispy hispy.

[Kate Young]

Oh, no, you can't. That takes a while. That takes a while and you gotta give it time. But, yes, that is coming out in March, and that is. It's a great joy of my life, that book. It's taken, like, seven years to write, and it's been a real joy.

[Kalya Donahue]

And if you loved our conversation earlier about lesbians and I made you cry. You have a novel.

[Kate Young]

I have a novel experience, which is a novel about lesbians in Bristol. And it'll make you cry. It remains out. It continues to be out. So, yeah, experienced. It is out in paperback and came out in paperback this summer. Okay.

[Kalya Donahue]

This has been phenomenal.

[Kate Young]

A joy. Thank you, Karen. Thank you.

[Kalya Donahue]

Bye, everyone.

[Kate Young]

Bye.

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[Kalya Donahue]

You look the same.

[Kate Young]

But.

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But this camera. Everything looks better. Especially me.

[Kalya Donahue]

You haven't changed your hair in 15 years.

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