← Sentimental Garbage
Sentimental Garbage
The Hunger Games Prequels: Sunrise on the Reaping
00:51:52
It's a reverse And Just Like That
Loading summary
Transcript238 lines
- [00:01]
Advertiser
Popsicles, sprinklers, a cool breeze. Talk about refreshing. You know what else is refreshing this summer? A brand new phone with Verizon.
- [00:09]
Tracy Thomas
Yep.
- [00:09]
Advertiser
Get a new phone on any plan with select phone, trade in in MyPlan and lock down a low price for three years on any plan with MyPlan. This is a deal for everyone whether you're a new or existing customer. Swing by Verizon today for our best phone deals. 3 year price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate only. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers.
- [00:33]
Tracy Thomas
Hi guys. Just to let you know, this is part two of a conversation I began with Tracy Thomas last week about the Hunger Games prequels. This episode covers off Sunrise on the Reaping. It's also, it's really. It's part of a three parter that began in May when we did the Hunger Games original series. So please, if you haven't heard the other ones, go back and listen. Especially if you're Hunger Games fam. They really are a real treat. Okay. On with the show. So we've spoken about Sunrise and the Reaping quite a lot actually throughout this, so maybe it's just best to highlight scenes and bits that we love the most. I mean, what's good is that it has a less complicated storyline, which is that I'm like. Because if you've read Catching Fire, you know the story already kind of, which is that Haymitch was in the the second Quarter Quell. It was a Games where they reaped twice the number of tributes. He ultimately wins it by using the force field against itself. And that is a big part of his thing. And that's what we've done all along. And so I would say that Sunrise and the Reaping, there is far less plot than there is in ballad, but there's a lot more depth of character, I would say. What were the parts of it that struck you most that we haven't spoken about already, obviously?
- [02:04]
Unnamed Guest
Well, I think like Haymitch as a character because we know him as sort of this like curmudgeonly drunk.
- [02:12]
Tracy Thomas
Yes.
- [02:12]
Unnamed Guest
Who hates everybody. And I felt like she did a really good job, similarly to how I felt about Coriolanus. She does a good job of getting us to where we are when we meet him in the Hunger Games. Like, she has this great family man kind of kid who has a similar story to Katniss. Like his dad dies in the mines or as a rebel or some other combination of things. Yeah. And she and he like goes from being this guy to Be like she sets us up to get to him being.
- [02:52]
Tracy Thomas
Yes, totally. She does a reverse just like that. You know, it's like we met the 50 year old disappointing individual and now we're going to see the cool person they used to be.
- [03:06]
Unnamed Guest
Right, Exactly. And like, I mean, I think Haymitch is an extremely easy and likable character. And so I thought that was great. I think the biggest, I mean we talked a lot about the abolition stuff. But the biggest thing, I think the thing she did so beautifully in this book is that she continually reminded us that these are children. Like I think in some of the other books it's kind of easy to be like they're like they're young adults. Right. Like it's Jennifer Lawrence in this. I was like, these are small children. Like with Louella.
- [03:42]
Tracy Thomas
Oh my gosh.
- [03:42]
Unnamed Guest
And like even Maisily. And like the, like, like Maisily's just such a great character. Cause even the parts where she's trying to be grown up being like, I just, I just drink coffee. It's just like, of course that is a 15 year old girl. Like, oh, I don't eat breakfast. I just drink coffee. Because that's what adults do. And I'm an adult and I want to be an adult so bad. And of course that's juxtaposed with the idea that we know you're gonna die like you child are never gonna be an adult. And I think she really just nailed that in this book.
- [04:13]
Tracy Thomas
You're so right. All the characters do seem an awful lot younger in this one. So as you said, Ma does feel just like kind of a vaguely conceited but, you know, kind of a bully. But like ultimately, yeah, just your quintessential 15 year old girl. I think like because we've had. Because Katniss never really had friends and like it was all the kind of the cast of characters in the original Hunger Games actually in that first book felt a lot smaller for Katniss's Games. Like she cared about Peeta, she cared about Gale, she cared about Rue. And everybody else is quite dim in the distance. Whereas because Sunrise on the Reaping, so much of the plotline is about that this is a Games where there are first of all more Tributes. But also that there is this plan. There's kind of two conspiracies that run through Sunrise and the Reaping. And one of them is that the kind of the non careers. So for a long time we've known about there's a career pack in the Hunger Games. They're the District two, and I can't remember which numbers they are, but, like, essentially the richer districts.
- [05:20]
Unnamed Guest
1, 2, 4, 8 or something.
- [05:23]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah, something like that. And they often band together to kind of thin their herd in the early parts of the game and then eventually turn on each other because there are so many tributes of this one. There's kind of an underdog class called the newcomers who band together. And. And because these are the kind of smallest and weakest kids, they're the youngest ones, and they do. We spend so long with them with. With Luella, with Ampert, who's Beatty's son, who is adorable and gets fucking eaten by squirrels. Just tough you get. And, like, also, why Wyatt, I really liked the kind of, like, slightly on the spectrum make Games maker kids, you know, who knows all the odds? Yeah, they do feel like. Yeah, just. Just people who are never gonna be adults, you know, children. Exactly. Who are never gonna be adults. And it's. It's the saddest of all the books for sure, because, oh, my God, there are just a lot of characters who you're getting to know far better.
- [06:27]
Unnamed Guest
It's so bleak. It's so bleak like this. I feel like in the first three books especially, she sort of. This is me doing psychology on a woman that I've never met and have never heard do an interview. So I just want to be very clear. This is just my interpretation, but in the early books, I think Suzanne Collins was like, I had this idea. It's kind of crazy. It's kind of fun. People liked it. It became sort of a fun thing to be into. And I think that she did not like the way that Hunger Games became fun because she was trying to be like, killing kids is bad. And it kind of became this, like, Team Gail, Team Peeta, which obviously I'm guilty of. And I think in this book, she was like, you're not going to have a fucking team. This isn't cute. Like, this is about fascism. This is about propaganda. This is about the murder of children. And she really was like, we're not. Not. It's. It's going to be bleak. You're not going to be able to have fun with this one. And I think she did a lot of the, like, fun stuff through fan service by, like, giving us, like, the little bits of backstory, but the actual games, there was not a lot of fun.
- [07:34]
Tracy Thomas
You're so right. Oh, my God, you're so correct. I'm so. I really think that theory holds water that she was. Because I think one of the things about the Hunger Games is the way, as a kind of a franchise, a series is the way in which the reader becomes complicit and in the same way that the audience of the Capitol are complicit. So it's like you get to a point when you're kind of in every of these books when you're mid Games, where people just start dying really quickly, and you're like, oh, shit. You know, Luella's dead. Oh, shit. Lulu's dead. Oh, shit. Ampert's dead. Oh, shit. Welly's dead. And you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're kind of like skipping because you want to get to the part where, you know. Because you. If you're reading from that character's perspective, you know, they win the games, so you're like, oh, I want to get to the part where afterwards they get all the money and stuff. So you're like. You're kind of in the same position as if you were right, you know?
- [08:29]
Unnamed Guest
Right. Totally. One of the things I didn't like about this book was the Hunger Games had too much targeted Mutt behavior. Too many Mutts sent in to just kill people after Haymitch did a bad thing. Which I understand is, like, supposed to be President Snow's hand in the whole thing.
- [08:50]
Tracy Thomas
Yes. But if I were a viewer, if I were somebody who was watching every season of the Hunger Games as a fan, I would be like, I hate this season. It's rigged.
- [08:59]
Unnamed Guest
It's so rigged. Exactly. And I think the point is that it is rigged. And at first he wants Haymitch to die, but then once Haymitch starts doing good things, he realizes he can punish him more and much worse by letting him live. But I'm just like, oh. Like, as soon as he does does the blows up the water tank, it's like, ampert's dead. I'm just like, man, don't let. Give Ampert a moment. Can Ampert get his. Like, can he at least go out where he has a chance? Like, he had no chance. Maisily had no chance. Like, Louella or Lulu had no chance. Like, it's just like, nobody. None of Haymitch's people had a chance, which, again, I know was on purpose. I just didn't like it.
- [09:41]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah, it was just tough. Like, it was hard going. And, like, she did try and give you a little bit of, like. Like, comic relief with some of these. I mean, I just love Capitol celebrities. I think they're my favorite genre of literary character are like, Rando celebs who live in the Capitol. So we have, like, I can't remember the name of the woman who's there at Haymitch's reaping.
- [10:05]
Unnamed Guest
Drusilla.
- [10:06]
Tracy Thomas
Drusilla. Love her. And also the snake guy. Like. And they turn Magno, and it turns out they used to be married.
- [10:17]
Unnamed Guest
No, they still are married.
- [10:18]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah. He's like this. He's like. Because what's really fun on a fan service level, this is the kind of fan service I adore, is, like, in the. In the trilogy, Katniss is like, District 12. They always put us in horrible coal miners outfits. And then we have Magno being like, you ready for your coal miners outfits? You know?
- [10:39]
Unnamed Guest
Right. And like, that. That's a tradition that's been going on even at Haymitch's Games. It's like, oh, we're wearing these dirty old things. I also. Okay, so here's another sequel that we could get. Would be Effie's story, right?
- [10:51]
Tracy Thomas
Yes.
- [10:53]
Unnamed Guest
Right. She would be young enough. Right. She's like. She's like, in her early 20s. So I think you could make it work.
- [10:59]
Tracy Thomas
Yes. So that's really exciting. And to go back to your point about Gale, Right. The way everybody hates Gale because he was, you know, built the technology that inevitably killed Prim, it's like, what. In Sunrise and the Reaping, everybody loves Effie, and, like, the fandom loves Effie as well. Right. Like, that has been a real. You see a lot of that around in this fandom. And Effy in this is like, she's this kind of sweet sort of debutante who has, like, an eye for fashion, who gets brought in by some students to sort of help them with outfits. And. Yeah, it's a very cool little. She's a very sweet character. And she's like, oh, you know, I think you guys are very brave. It's sad that you have to do it, but you do have to do it. But I think you're very brave. But, like, Effie Trinket is more. Is, like, one of the most callous characters in the whole series.
- [11:50]
Unnamed Guest
Yeah. And I think, like, you know, she and Haymitch end up suffering from the same kind of thing by the time we meet them, which is like, they are responsible for the district that always loses. So every time she. I think she gets hardened in the same similar ways that he does. She comes into it and she's like, I think you're brave. I thought you were a good person. I didn't think you were a district mutt. Or whatever in the way that Drusilla thinks of them as, like, beasts. But I think she becomes. By the time we meet her in Katniss game, she becomes this sort of, like. I don't know, she's like, detached from reality because it's the only way she can stay positive. Like, you have to say, it's like that false positivity. Speaking of influencer type people, where it's like, it's okay like this 7 year old or this 12 year old's gonna die, but, like, put on your best faces. Like, chin up.
- [12:44]
Tracy Thomas
Oh, God, you're so right.
- [12:46]
Unnamed Guest
Because she, like, can't feel.
- [12:48]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God, you're right. An Effie story would be fucking good. What. What sort of. What would you do for that, do you think?
- [12:58]
Unnamed Guest
I don't know. I'm still not a writer. I don't know. You'd probably have to do What Hunger Games 35. Like 10 years before we get to. Or sorry. Not 35, 50. 65. Like 10 years before we get to Katniss, where she sort of, like, maybe, like, has a heartbreaking loss and just, like, cannot handle it.
- [13:23]
Tracy Thomas
Because I do want more from the stylist. Because we find. I mean, we didn't speak about this in ballad, but, like, the. We get Tigress in ballad, who is Coriolanus's cousin. And then we obviously get to know her in Mockingjay because she is, like, described as this kind of decrepit, sort of tattooed woman who kind of looks like a cat or whatever. And she helps Katniss and the rebels because she hates Snow. But. And in that storyline, it's like, she used to be a stylist on the Hunger Games, and then she was like, you know, retired by Snow. She hates him. So clearly there's a story there because the Tigress that we know is this, like, very sweet, wholesome character. So I feel like there's an Effie story that contains Tigress.
- [14:08]
Unnamed Guest
Oh, yeah. Maybe she's like, she reaches out to mentor her or something. After her own demise.
- [14:15]
Tracy Thomas
Sure. Yeah.
- [14:16]
Unnamed Guest
Even though technically Effie is escort, not the.
- [14:22]
Tracy Thomas
Oh, you're right. So she's eventually.
- [14:23]
Unnamed Guest
Spinna is the stylist.
- [14:24]
Tracy Thomas
You're right. So she is eventually promoted to escort.
- [14:28]
Unnamed Guest
I guess, to Drusilla's job.
- [14:30]
Tracy Thomas
Yes. You're dead right. Interesting. But okay, so what do you think of this? So there is a theory that Ballad of Song of Birds and Snakes is the kind of B side to the first Hunger Games book. It's a kind of A mirror of it or whatever. Because it's showing you the origins of this Games, that Sunrise on the Reaping is the mirror to Catching Fire because it's about the Quells and all of that. And so therefore, if we're using that like logic, then the third book of the prequels will be some kind of mirror to Mockingjay. And what would that be? I guess it could be a President Coin story. I'm not sure.
- [15:19]
Unnamed Guest
Oh, interesting. See, to me it should be the President Snow overthrowing the government in his own way. Like his rise to power and how he. Cause he clearly we know that he has to like poison a bunch of people and that he rises to power in sort of a hostile way where. Which would be the response to Katniss rising to power or like taking out the Capitol. It's like another sort of coup. But it's the President. It's President Snow's coup.
- [15:52]
Tracy Thomas
Interesting. Yes. How does the coup occur? I mean, as America becomes more coup centric, I think that she will write another coup book.
- [16:03]
Unnamed Guest
I mean, to me the most interesting place to be is the President Snow story. That's the story that has the most space in it.
- [16:12]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah. Because again, it can contain all of these characters already. Right, right.
- [16:19]
Unnamed Guest
And we get more. We get to hear from Tigress. We get to hear from a lot of. You know, we get to see President Snow's wedding because he marries one of his classmates. We find out in the epilogue, someone that he hates because he knows he'll never be under their spell like he was under Lucy Graybeard. So like I feel like. I know. I hear what you're saying about it not being ya, but maybe if it starts right after where this book ends, he's still only 18 and so we can follow him into adulthood.
- [16:51]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [16:53]
Unnamed Guest
Because I feel like ya, you could be like 20 or like totally. That's like.
- [16:57]
Tracy Thomas
You know, honestly, I would love if she went new adult up with the whole thing and we got like Snow, you know.
- [17:04]
Unnamed Guest
Yeah. Oh yeah.
- [17:05]
Tracy Thomas
We're.
- [17:05]
Unnamed Guest
Her audience is old. Okay. Her audience has aged up.
- [17:09]
Tracy Thomas
Like come on. I cannot imagine my 13 year old niece reading Sunrise on the Reaping. You know, that's just not happening. Like it's her audience. You're right. Her audience is old. But let's talk about it.
- [17:20]
Unnamed Guest
Be 40 next.
- [17:21]
Tracy Thomas
Right?
- [17:21]
Unnamed Guest
Like hello.
- [17:24]
Tracy Thomas
Come on. The. Okay, so let's. While we're on the subject of President Snow, let's talk about his appearance in. In Sunrise on the Reaping, which is, I thought was brilliant. Where. So okay, so it's as we know, there are four Tributes per district. There is a kind of chariot parade which we're very familiar with from the original books. The chariots parade goes wrong. One of the district's 12 tributes, Louella McCoy, who is Haymitch's sweetheart. His like little like she's sweetheart. She's like four or five years younger than Haymitch. She's a very like gutsy little tomboy. It's very sweet. She is killed in this chariot accident and Haymitch is so heartbroken that he decides to dump her body at the foot of President Snow, which then makes him a target to President Snow. He is brought later at some point. I can't remember why exactly. For a confrontation between Plutarch Heavensby, who we know from the third book played by.
- [18:25]
Unnamed Guest
Wait, is Plutarch? Is Plutarch the third book or the second book?
- [18:29]
Tracy Thomas
Who's is it?
- [18:31]
Unnamed Guest
Oh, Seneca Crane is the first game maker. And then Plutarch. Okay, okay, okay. Got it, got it, got it.
- [18:36]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, Plutarch, yeah, he's the kind of head games maker in book three. But at this point he's like a TV producer.
- [18:44]
Unnamed Guest
No, he's. I think he's Book two, isn't he? Because isn't he the one that helps them get out at the end of book two?
- [18:50]
Tracy Thomas
Oh, you're dead. Right. But then he kind of emerges more as a character in book three. Yes.
- [18:54]
Unnamed Guest
Seneca gets killed. Killed after book one because of how Katniss and Peeta game the system. So then Plutarch is finally put in for the quarter quell 75. And he's the game maker for that. And then he is part of the like Deuce Ek Mahina at the end of book two. And then he's around for book three.
- [19:14]
Tracy Thomas
It's so good. Book two is so fucking good. That whole thing where he's like dancing with Katniss and like pointing at his watch which has a Mockingjay on it. And she doesn't really know what that means. And it's like I'm planning a revolution. So this 25 years previously is still planning a revolution. I think. I think he is the most fascinating character in, in these books because he is like a privileged capital freaky little. But he also still wants freedom at any cost. Yes, but also just loves propaganda.
- [19:47]
Unnamed Guest
He's just such a good example of like a. A reminder to all of us who are living in times that feel unbearable of like the Resistance, the tradition of Resistance takes time.
- [19:59]
Tracy Thomas
Yes. I mean, that's what this book is about.
- [20:02]
Unnamed Guest
Yes. And he knew even if Haymitch blew up the water tank and drowned the system and killed and drowned the machine and it worked fully, that that was not gonna be the end. He understands that. That this whole thing is a long game. It is not a one and done. And I think that's an especially powerful point to young people who want things now. I mean, famously, Martin Luther King Jr. I may not get there with you, but we're gonna reach the mountaintop. Right? Like, that is famous language of resistance and of sort of, you know, Barack Obama's favorite thing to say. The arc of the universe bends towards justice or whatever. The moral arc of the universe bends towards justice. Like, he is that voice for us in these books. Like that he is looking and to some point, which makes Haymitch a pawn in his game. Right. Like that Haymitch is just a piece. He is using what is presented to him to help tell the story. He wants to be the true story. And that is also sort of a. By any means necessary, that he's willing to sacrifice these kids that are already being sacrificed in order to do it.
- [21:17]
Tracy Thomas
Yes, totally. It makes him the most morally gray of all the characters in the universe because he is like, truly. For the resistance, has been for 30 years, but will willingly use the kind of. The tools of. The tools of the Master.
- [21:33]
Unnamed Guest
The master's house.
- [21:34]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah, exactly.
- [21:36]
Unnamed Guest
He's actively participating in the slaughter. He's not even like Effie, who, like, helps out because, like, she wants these kids to have nice clothes, but, like, yeah, you know, she's sort of. What? He's like, no, no, no, you can't be with your family. Like, no, no, get in the. Smile for me. Wave. I need the shot. Like, he is actively painting these pictures.
- [21:58]
Tracy Thomas
Yes, totally. And it's. It's fascinating as well, because, like, when you have him, when you. Because it's said several times. And it also comes up in the. Of songbirds and snakes, before Plutarch's birth even that, like, the Heavensbees are one of the wealthiest families in the capital. And so we have this character who is swimming in abundance, in esteem in social capital. And he's. Because he has this sort of long legacy, you know, with this family or whatever he's thinking in generations. He's not thinking in one to two year stints. He's like, this is the thing I will push forward with my time on this Earth. I live in this big ancient house full of crests and things. And here's what I'm doing with that. It's a really fat. Whereas every other character in these worlds are living hand to mouth, week to week, day to day.
- [22:53]
Unnamed Guest
Right. And they're being asked to put themselves in danger. Right?
- [22:59]
Tracy Thomas
Yes.
- [23:00]
Unnamed Guest
And he is not. He is like, you know, I don't know what a good analogy is, but it's sort of like the rich people that, like, back political candidates but have nothing to do. They just, like, want to get their legislation through that's gonna impact millions and millions of people, but they're just like, you know, I feel strongly that there shouldn't be abortion in America. So I'm gonna back this awful person who's gonna take away healthcare and do all of these things. But, like, it doesn't actually impact me. I'm not ever gonna feel this. Like, my kid will always be able to get an abortion. Right. And so that's also just. He is a villain and also a hero in a way that feels so spot on.
- [23:43]
Tracy Thomas
Yes.
- [23:44]
Unnamed Guest
Yes to real life. Like, how these things truly work.
- [23:48]
Tracy Thomas
I mean, wouldn't be opposed to a Plutarch novel either, you know?
- [23:52]
Unnamed Guest
I know, but we have to do him as an adult. You. I would care nothing about his origin story.
- [23:58]
Tracy Thomas
That's true. You're so right. You're so right.
- [24:01]
Unnamed Guest
Well, I mean, do you care why he. Why he feels this way? Not really.
- [24:05]
Tracy Thomas
It just matters because it will be boring. It will just be like, my dad was mean, and so when I. He was mean to me. So maybe in justice, my baby sitter.
- [24:15]
Unnamed Guest
Wasn'T from District 12 or something stupid.
- [24:19]
Tracy Thomas
It's so, like, Elphaba and wicked. It's like. Like, I have a bare nanny.
- [24:25]
Unnamed Guest
And I'm green, so therefore.
- [24:27]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah.
- [24:30]
Unnamed Guest
No, but I. I do find him to be really a compelling character, for he does so much work, even though he's barely in the book. Like, his existence is. Is hugely important.
- [24:43]
Tracy Thomas
But he. He first comes up. I mean, he comes up in that. The Reaping, because he's, like, forcing Haymitch to do different, like, emotional takes for him so he can get, like, better shots. But also his first entrance is, like, you know, really complex because even Haymitch is like, I hate this guy. He sucks. He's making me perform my grief for my family over and over again. But I am also experiencing more time with my family that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. So I feel. I don't know. And then next time we see him, he has. President Snow posts the killing of Louella. President Snow Kind of wants an audience with Haymitch. And Plutarch is the person who arranges it. And the first time we see Snow, and Snow is already an old man at this point. I would like. So this is like how many. This is 50 years. He would be 65.
- [25:32]
Unnamed Guest
40 years.
- [25:33]
Tracy Thomas
40 years. Okay, sorry.
- [25:34]
Unnamed Guest
Yeah, he would be 50. 58.
- [25:36]
Tracy Thomas
And he's a bad 58. You know, he's. Yeah, he's like pukin is puking. He's pale, scared, disgusting. And. And the thing being that like he. Because he's already doing his sort of technique of poisoning people and like poisoning his own food mildly as well. And basically developing a resistance to poisons that he is suffering and has ulcers. And Haymitch is sent to get him a glass of milk from the fridge. And then he just drinks all of it.
- [26:07]
Unnamed Guest
Such a weird moment.
- [26:09]
Tracy Thomas
So loved it. So yucky.
- [26:12]
Unnamed Guest
Yeah. I mean, he's so gross. And then he's basically like, listen, kid, we got a family motto. It's snow lands on top, babe. So just, just know. Just know you're done. Like, you're done. No matter what happens, it's done for you. First he says, I'm gonna kill you. But then we quickly realize he's like, no, I'm gonna. I'm gonna let you win. See how you like that.
- [26:39]
Advertiser
Popsicles, sprinklers, a cool breeze. Talk about refreshing. You know what else is refreshing this summer? A brand new phone with Verizon.
- [26:47]
Tracy Thomas
Yep.
- [26:48]
Advertiser
Get a new phone on any plan with select phone. Trade in and MyPlan and lock down a low price for three years on any plan with MyPlan. This is a deal for everyone, whether you're a new or existing customer. Swing by Verizon today for our best phone deals. 3 year price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate only. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers this back to school. Hear your teen say something you never thought possible.
- [27:15]
Tracy Thomas
Thanks ma.
- [27:16]
Advertiser
Come to your booth store and take home iPhone 15 with its amazing camera and all day battery for only 99.99. Perfect for back to school.
- [27:25]
Tracy Thomas
Thanks, ma.
- [27:26]
Advertiser
You won't get tired of hearing it. Visit your nearest Booth store. Requires ID verification, port in and activation on $60 per month plan and $35 device setup fee, taxes extra.
- [27:42]
Tracy Thomas
Okay, here's the thing that I didn't love about this. I understand that because again, this is a YA novel. And like, you know, the Hunger Games, they as a TV show, as a thing in this universe, we understand why they're politically important because they Oppress the districts. And they are. They're a remarkable tool for control. And I get that. But the idea that, like, the president of the entire country is, like, personally involved in the fate of individual tributes at all times, and it's seemingly all he thinks about is like, yes.
- [28:17]
Unnamed Guest
It's like, get a life, dude. Get a life. But also feels like it's sort of justified from Book four because it is his ticket to power is like his ability.
- [28:26]
Tracy Thomas
He.
- [28:27]
Unnamed Guest
He learns that the Hunger Games is what he is good at. So I do feel like it's like he becomes obsessed with it every year. Makes sense to me. Like, this is what. Like, he's just like, a terrible leader. The economy's so bad, but, like, the Games get better and better, you know.
- [28:42]
Tracy Thomas
Like, ah, but also, there must be so much money. There's so much money flowing through the Games.
- [28:48]
Unnamed Guest
Yeah.
- [28:49]
Tracy Thomas
So.
- [28:49]
Unnamed Guest
Well, they said in book, in the snow book, that the betting is what ends up funding the Games.
- [28:56]
Tracy Thomas
Yes.
- [28:56]
Unnamed Guest
Remember, that's, like, part of the. So it's like, taxpayers don't have to pay for this, like, in their taxes. They pay for it by betting on the Games. And so it's like, very. It's gotta be super lucrative.
- [29:08]
Tracy Thomas
Totally. It's very. The Olympics, right? It's like, yeah. You know, oh, the amount of, you know, tourism it brings to the city, the amount of people who come to the capital every year to see the game.
- [29:18]
Unnamed Guest
And then it's like all these people are displaced by the stadiums they build. And it's, like, actually a nightmare. But it's so much fun. And I. I do, I, I. Simone Biles was so great last time.
- [29:29]
Tracy Thomas
Like, I do love it. So funny. Like, I would love to get sort of like a. A POV shot of being like, yeah, you know, we'd love to end the Games, but they're really important for the economy. Like, thousands of people would lose their jobs.
- [29:43]
Unnamed Guest
Yeah. Oh, totally. Oh, it's definitely. Think of all the people who would lose their jobs.
- [29:48]
Tracy Thomas
Exactly.
- [29:49]
Unnamed Guest
For sure.
- [29:50]
Tracy Thomas
Totally. Yeah. Okay, so again, we. It's. It's. It's getting late here. So Snow has this conversation with Haymitch, which is about, I'm gonna kill you and. Or I'm definitely gonna kill you for sure. But your behavior in the Games will sort of, like, depend on how violently and terribly I kill you. And then he starts nagging him about his girlfriend.
- [30:16]
Unnamed Guest
Oh, yeah.
- [30:18]
Tracy Thomas
And he's like a covey girl. Her plans don't include you.
- [30:22]
Unnamed Guest
Yeah. He's like, I've been burned.
- [30:26]
Tracy Thomas
Totally.
- [30:26]
Unnamed Guest
I'VE learned. I know I'm living through a 16 year old boy's love life.
- [30:31]
Tracy Thomas
It's so funny.
- [30:33]
Unnamed Guest
It's so creepy. He's such a creep. But yeah, no, he's. I feel like once he realizes that it's like a cubby girl, then he's like, no going to punish all of them.
- [30:45]
Tracy Thomas
All of them. And in District 12 as well. Ds like pissed. But then the scene, the scene which was already quite disturbing and yucky and like full of milk and poison and blood and like weird chat, it caps off being and becomes the most disturbing scene in I think all of the Hunger Games franchise, which is they bring in Louella McCoy back into the room who died several days previously. Only that's not Louella McCoy. It's a girl they've given surgery to to look exactly like her and, and they call Lulu for short. And she just becomes a new character. That fucked me up. That really scared me.
- [31:27]
Unnamed Guest
That was pretty dark. That was very dark. And she has like a chip in her ear that's like telling her what to say sort of. And it's like bleeding and she's like, oh, yeah, that was really dark. I mean, well, okay. The thing that I think was the most fucked up in the book is that BT's son is in and BT is the mentor.
- [31:50]
Tracy Thomas
I'm perched.
- [31:52]
Unnamed Guest
No that to me, I was like dark. So dark.
- [31:57]
Tracy Thomas
BT is a fascinating character because it's the whole thing of like, he's kind of openly rebellious of the regime, but everyone is like, his brain is too valuable and we need to keep him around. So we'll just kill his K. That.
- [32:10]
Unnamed Guest
Would be one that I would do. I would do bet's games.
- [32:14]
Tracy Thomas
I mean, at this point it's a really attest to her characterization that there are so many characters. I would see their pov.
- [32:22]
Unnamed Guest
I would do anybody's games. Honestly, if she was like Hunger Games 17, I'd be like, great, great. Any games you want to give me? I'm sure you could make it work.
- [32:31]
Tracy Thomas
Oh my God. Give me mags. Games. Give me mags. Okay, we have to talk about Wairis and Mags. I love them so much. They had such queer mom energy in this.
- [32:43]
Unnamed Guest
I loved them. Wait, we didn't say this, but Sejanus is definitely gay, right?
- [32:50]
Tracy Thomas
Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like he had a thing. He for sure had a thing going with Billy tope in District 12. And it was like one of those super toxic gay dynamics where like Billy Taupe isn't out, but he's like, I'll let you suck me off.
- [33:09]
Unnamed Guest
Yeah. So Jay is just definitely. I was like, oh, I don't know. He just read as gay to me. I don't. I don't know why. I can't say exactly why, but I felt that in my bones.
- [33:20]
Tracy Thomas
Was it because he was gentle and believed in human rights?
- [33:25]
Unnamed Guest
It was also because, like, his dad hated him and, like, he just, like. And, like, his, like, like obsession with, like, being friends. I don't know. There was just so much about him where I was like, oh, I could see this, but it wasn't anything like actual. There was. I don't know. He just. In the same way that, like, some of the characters, I'm like, oh, you're black. Like, I was just like, oh, you're gay. Like, she didn't say it, but I just, like, felt it.
- [33:49]
Tracy Thomas
That was interesting because our last podcast together, we had a big gay audit of Katniss. So I think. Yeah.
- [33:55]
Unnamed Guest
Oh, right.
- [33:56]
Tracy Thomas
That she. She does. She. She does kind of. She very much takes the Dumbledore approach to gay characters in these books in that she's recognizing that gayness exists, but they're always, like, off screen characters. It'll be like one of the cubby girls being like, oh, yeah, my friend's got a girlfriend. Anyway.
- [34:13]
Unnamed Guest
Well, is it Clark? Clark? Clark Clam. Isn't he gay? One of the uncles is gay. One of them is, right?
- [34:21]
Tracy Thomas
One of the uncles is gay.
- [34:23]
Unnamed Guest
Maybe it's Tam. Tam Amblym.
- [34:25]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah.
- [34:26]
Unnamed Guest
Amber Tamblyn.
- [34:27]
Tracy Thomas
Tam Gamblin's gay. We all feel fine about it.
- [34:32]
Unnamed Guest
But I feel like one of the uncles is like, I'm protective of you, but I just want you to be happy and find love. Because I know what it's like to not have love or something and has, like, a secret boyfriend. Did I make that up? I'm pretty sure that's.
- [34:45]
Tracy Thomas
No, that's definitely. That is definitely a thing. But it's also, like, why would anyone care in this world if anyone's gay? It's like, it feels like. Like I, like, like it. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of social values that have particularly carried over from our present worldview in terms of, like, sexual dynamics aren't talked about that much. Like, there aren't, again, not that much about individual ethnicity stuff. Kind of. There's not that much gender roles really going on like, there. You never get a sense from these worlds that, like, girls do this and boys do this. You get a sense that everyone's capable. So I don't really understand why there would be homophobia in these worlds. It seems like there would be other kinds of phobias, but not, like, why.
- [35:35]
Unnamed Guest
There'S none of those. Why is there this one? Yeah. Interesting. Sure. Yeah. No, I don't know, but it definitely is, like, a line. It's a pretty throwaway line, so who knows?
- [35:43]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah, it feels like a real Suzanne Collins, get off my back line kind of thing. It's her being like, look, there are gay people. I just don't really care about them for this, okay?
- [35:51]
Unnamed Guest
Like, I'm not really doing gay race. I'm not. I'm just doing war, you guys. I'm just doing fucking war.
- [35:57]
Tracy Thomas
Can I just do war? Can you just let Suzanne do war? Because the thing is, Suzanne doesn't care about romance at all, so why would she care about gay romance?
- [36:06]
Unnamed Guest
Yeah, she's just like, I have you guys. Are you guys paying attention? I just want to do war philosophy. That's it. That's what my dad and I talked about. That's what I want to do.
- [36:18]
Tracy Thomas
Leave me alone. Me and my dad didn't talk about gay sex, so there's no gay sex in this book.
- [36:23]
Unnamed Guest
She's like, fuck who you want. Don't make me write about it.
- [36:26]
Tracy Thomas
Thank you. So fair. Actually, do you know what?
- [36:30]
Unnamed Guest
So fair.
- [36:30]
Tracy Thomas
I get it. Just because the books are popular with a lot of people doesn't mean that she has to write about every damn thing, you know?
- [36:37]
Unnamed Guest
Exactly. Yeah. No, back to what we were saying, I would spend. I loved Mags and Wyrus. I loved them as the mentors. I thought that was such a nice touch. I mean, we all. Who didn't love Mags in book three. So two and three.
- [36:58]
Tracy Thomas
Two. Yeah, totally. And, like, again, it's just I. In. In my head canon, they are a couple and this kind of. And they just felt like a very gentle, united, but very strong front. And this. This very moving thing of, like, you know, we. You know, when we first started doing this, it's very. Like when we first started fostering as a couple. Yes. You know, we. We made the mistake of not asking people what they wanted. And, you know, we can't guarantee your survival, but we can help you try and achieve things such as dying with grace or whatever, you know, or like making your individual families proud of you, you know, and it's very moving. And then it comes up with Haymitch's sort of slogan. I mean, his version of Snow Lands on Top is that they won't Use me to paint their posters. Which is less catchy, but I get it.
- [37:56]
Unnamed Guest
Yeah. Yeah. That did not have the Suzanne Collins ring to it. It's definitely not may the odds be ever in your favor or whatever. It was not does not catch. But I did. I did love that bit of we can help you to, like, exit with dignity, essentially.
- [38:16]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah.
- [38:17]
Unnamed Guest
And I. I just. And I loved Wyrus's little, like, chant. Like, first avoid the slaughter, then go find water. Like, get some food and some this. Make friends. Or maybe you don't. Like, I thought that was so cute.
- [38:28]
Tracy Thomas
Make friends. Or maybe don't. I don't know.
- [38:32]
Unnamed Guest
I lost the plot. I know the first part was like, first avoid. First avoid the slaughter, then go and find water or something.
- [38:38]
Tracy Thomas
I mean. Yeah, not bad. Not bad. Rules for life in general games are. No. I'm conscious that we're doing a greatest hits for this book, but again, we've been talking about this book throughout, so I don't think anyone will be mad at us. I loved that. It was like a beautiful Poison arena as a kind of like a. This is like, in my head as well, that, like. Because I needed to explain to myself why President Snow was so obsessed with these games. To me, they were like his. Oor games. They're like, these are my special ones. I've been doing this for X number of years. I don't do it so much anymore. But this is like, my dream arena. It's full of poison. I love poison.
- [39:18]
Unnamed Guest
Right, Right. The Poison Arena. And I think, like, the other part of this book that I don't think we've talked about nearly enough, considering how big it is in the book, is the propaganda of it all. That we see this whole story from Haymitch's point of view, and then he finally wins, and then he gets out and he sees the, like, roundup of what the Capitol saw. And it's just literally, he's a fucking asshole. He doesn't help anybody. He doesn't do anything revolutionary. He's not there when Ampert dies. He's not there when Mazely dies. He's not there when Lulu dies. Like, he is a selfish rascal, which is what he wanted to be. And also that in the arena, he doesn't help mazily. And, like, just like that. The whole. His whole experience is just not what anyone will ever see or understand. And that he'll never be able to, like, redeem himself. Because even if the bad things were shown of him in the arena, like him not helping to kill the game, Makers or helping to fight against whatever. Nobody saw any of it. So there's nothing for him to even argue against. Like, they've taken away all of his ability to, like, have a redemption narcissist. And I thought that that was, like, so fascinating and, like, devastating for that character.
- [40:40]
Tracy Thomas
You're so right. I hadn't thought about that in the same way, but you're so right because it also speaks to the kind of celebrity in general that, like, the way in which. Because the whole thing with the Hunger Games is that, like, if you win, you get to be a celebrity and you get to be rich and famous and be in this enviable position. And the way in which we still think of celebrities as these people, people in positions of power, when very often they aren't very often being notable and being known is not an exchangeable thing with or even equitable with being a person of power, you know, and so. And so frequently you get these. I think about this as well, kind of like, because she's having such a moment right now with too much Lena Dunham's career and about how she spent so much of her career trying to explain. Explain herself and then kind of gave up and sort of disappeared for five or six years. About, like, how even if you have the tools to explain yourself, the ways in which our culture picks and choose what it will show and how it will manipulate it means you actually. You may think you have a mouthpiece to totally explain what you want to say, but actually you don't because of how the information is disseminated.
- [41:53]
Unnamed Guest
Right. And like, in this case, some of that falls at the feet of Plutarch.
- [42:02]
Tracy Thomas
Yes. Yeah.
- [42:05]
Unnamed Guest
Who I guess ultimately we don't know how much.
- [42:07]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah. At the end of the day, is just saving his own ass, I guess. Maybe.
- [42:11]
Unnamed Guest
Yeah. But yeah, like, that he doesn't even get to. He didn't. He thought he was, like, making all of these posters, and it turns out, like, nobody ever saw them.
- [42:23]
Tracy Thomas
God. And that is actually a book. That is unbearably bleak. That is the bleakest thing of all. He thought he was making all these statements, all these fuck use of the Capitol, and not a person saw them unless they were watching live. And like. And even if they were watching live, the way in which the edit is shown and re. Shown changes the fact of what happened.
- [42:43]
Unnamed Guest
Right. But, like, even people who were at the parade, like, didn't know that Louella had died because they, like, they don't pay enough attention to these kids. Like, just that. I mean, the whole. It's just so. So bleak.
- [43:02]
Tracy Thomas
It's so bleak. So bleak. And so, yeah, he wins. He kind of almost dies. Like, guts get dragged out and then they sort of repair him. There's this very kind of dreamy bit where he's, like, recovering, but there's videos of Lucy Gray Baird for some reason.
- [43:23]
Unnamed Guest
Yeah.
- [43:23]
Tracy Thomas
Did you get this?
- [43:24]
Unnamed Guest
I understand what that was. No, but that also is sort of reminiscent of, like, both Katniss and Peeta getting, like, patched up, but, like, way better. Like, they, like, take off all her scars and like.
- [43:33]
Tracy Thomas
Yes.
- [43:34]
Unnamed Guest
So it's like maybe like an early stage of that. I don't know. But I don't know why Lucy was there. I mean. Yeah. Or was it Lucy? Was it Lenore or Lucy on the videos?
- [43:43]
Tracy Thomas
No, it was. It was tapes of Lucy, I think. I thought.
- [43:46]
Unnamed Guest
Anyway, I think you're right. No, you're right. I don't know. Sometimes when stuff happens that's like, weird in books, I just sort of block it out. I'm like, oh, that wasn't helpful. I gotta go.
- [43:55]
Tracy Thomas
There's quite a few of those in this book which, like, for example, there's.
- [44:00]
Unnamed Guest
Especially the fucking Raven poem.
- [44:03]
Tracy Thomas
Oh, what the. What was that about?
- [44:06]
Unnamed Guest
Okay, but here's my question. Do you know that Edgar Allan Poe married his 13 year old cousin when he was 27 years old? Because that part of the story of Edgar Allan Poe is very fucking troubling to me. And it was a weird choice. I'm like, what is she saying? Because she's got to know that information.
- [44:23]
Tracy Thomas
Okay, I'll be totally honest with you. Edgar Allan Poe is not as big over here as he. As he is in the US I feel like I know about Edgar Allan Poe because I know a little bit about poetry and because he always comes up in American TV shows as the great American poet. But I feel like I'm like, I know, but I don't know anything about nothing else.
- [44:43]
Unnamed Guest
The only reason I know this about Edgar Allan Poe is because we read Lolita for my podcast's book club. And I listened to the Lolita podcast that Jamie Loftus does, and she talked about how I believe Edgar Allan Poe comes up in Lolita and like, a reference to him and his young wife. And so she explained that piece of information, but, like, the fact that he was a child pedophile, whatever. I don't think that that is something we're taught. I just remember learning about the Raven.
- [45:12]
Tracy Thomas
That's nuts. I don't get like, so does. Does Lenore Dove as a thing Come up in the raven. Is that what it is?
- [45:21]
Unnamed Guest
Lenore is a name. And that's where she gets her name, Lenore.
- [45:24]
Tracy Thomas
Right. Okay, so the whole thing with Covey.
- [45:26]
Unnamed Guest
From, like, a ballad and a color with a name in it.
- [45:30]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah, yeah, sure, I get it. Yeah.
- [45:35]
Unnamed Guest
But I didn't need the whole transcription of the poem. Suzanne. I got it. Kvothe raven nevermore. Rhymes with Lenore. We're there. We're done. We get it. Scary.
- [45:43]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah, I know it's scary. So, yeah, so he goes back to District 12. He his friend again. He's very good friends with, or he was with, Katniss's father, Burdick. Who? Or Burdock, I think. I'm not saying it right.
- [45:59]
Unnamed Guest
Burdock.
- [46:00]
Tracy Thomas
Burdock. And the. He, very quickly after he gets back, his entire family are killed. And also Lenore Dove is killed through poisoned bon bons or something.
- [46:14]
Unnamed Guest
Gumdrops.
- [46:15]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah, gumdrops. Yes. And then he realizes, like, oh, this is. There's no coming back from this for me. And also, if I befriend anybody else, they'll be murdered as well. So now I will simply disappear behind a veil of alcoholism for 20 years until Katniss comes along. It's so grim. It's so bleak. I hate that.
- [46:38]
Unnamed Guest
Yeah. And like, again, he's 16.
- [46:42]
Tracy Thomas
Yeah.
- [46:44]
Unnamed Guest
Like, it's just like, what? His whole family is killed. And, like, it's not shortly after he arrives. It's like he arrives and the fire breaks out. And by the time he gets to the house, everyone's dead.
- [46:55]
Tracy Thomas
Everyone's like.
- [46:55]
Unnamed Guest
It's like the timing is just. And then they have the scene where there's like, the funeral with all these coffins of all these people who have died, like, in this short period of time. And also, his birthday is reaping day. His July 4th birthday, which is the Reaping Day. For those of you overseas not familiar, July 4th in America is our Independence Day. Ever heard of it? It's just like, so. I mean, I think the whole Games only took like five or six days. So this is like within a week or two of his birthday, all of this is happening.
- [47:31]
Tracy Thomas
Yep. But, like, what was interesting to me in this is that, like, I think we know from Catching Fire that the to win the Games is low key. The worst thing that can happen to you, it's almost worse than death because you become this pawn of the Games for the rest of your life and you have to, like, there's the Fiddick O'Dare thing where you kind of use The a sort of like a sex worker. And it's trouble that way. Or they just kill your family to control you or whatever.
- [48:01]
Unnamed Guest
Right.
- [48:02]
Tracy Thomas
And that is. Even Drusilla, in the earlier parts of Sunrise, even says to Maisali, I hope you do win, because it will be the greatest misery of your life. So it's like an open secret in the capital that it's the worst thing.
- [48:16]
Unnamed Guest
That you could ever happen.
- [48:18]
Tracy Thomas
But here's my argument. Why would you kill all of them at once? If you want to control Haymitch for the rest of his life, surely kill a Noir for sure. And then. Yeah, I just thought in this case.
- [48:32]
Unnamed Guest
It was like, you tried to come for my games. Like, I'm taking everything you've ever loved. It's not even about controlling him. It's about breaking him. In this case, I think with Finnick, it was about control. And that's why they kept his girlfriend alive, so that he would do what they wanted. In this case, I think it was just like, you wanna destroy me? Nah, I'm gonna destroy you. I'm gonna make sure you live so that you can never be. Cause what does he say? Haymitch says to him, I guess snow lands on top. And then he says that President Snow, he merely smiles and says, enjoy your homecoming. It's just the threat of all threats.
- [49:14]
Tracy Thomas
So good. These are great books. So good. I love great books.
- [49:18]
Unnamed Guest
I know. Even the ones that I didn't love. I think that I thought Sunrise on the Reaping was my least favorite. And even that I thought was great. I think up against other books, it's fantastic. Up against Suzanne Collins herself, it's not her best, but that's the Beyonce rule. It's like Beyonce's worst album is the best album that's ever been written by anybody not named Beyonce. You know, I'm just like, oh, okay, cool. Like, you didn't like Cowboy Carter that much. Great. Fine. Fair. But, like, is there any album that's even close to Cowboy Carter written by anybody else alive right now? Like, no, not at all. And so that's like, my judgment of these books is like, no, no. This was still probably one of the best books I read this year. It just wasn't the Hunger Games original.
- [50:05]
Tracy Thomas
That's so true. And I think, like, taking, you know, as we really do have to wrap up. Cause we've been speaking for over two hours, which is more than I love it. Like, you know, we barely know each other at all. I've spoken to you more this week than I have to my mom. But, like, I feel like the achievement of these five books, when taken as a whole, and I think there probably will be a sixth, is that it creates not just a world, but a continuum. And the most effective thing it shows when brought all together, is it shows how, like, the slippage of an entire society. And I think what Suzanne is writing about right now is slippage. I think she's looking at slippage of, like, she's watching standards fall around her. She's watching violence become more every day. She's watching rights being taken away from people more and more. She's watching all this slipping of civilization. And she's like, I will show you a continuum of slippage. I will show you how people get poorer, how people get more desperate and more violent. And that is the story of these five books. I think you're so.
- [51:10]
Unnamed Guest
That's. That's perfect. You're so correct. Totally.
- [51:15]
Tracy Thomas
Thanks. Thanks, man. I can't. I can't bear the thought that this is the last time I speak to you. We have to talk about something else.
- [51:21]
Unnamed Guest
I'm sort of obsessed with you. It's very weird that. It's like, we just. It's like, this is the power of the Hunger Games. I'm like my new best friend, Caroline.
- [51:31]
Tracy Thomas
We talk about one thing. We don't know anything about each other.
- [51:34]
Unnamed Guest
And, like, we can never know anything about each other. You. You know what I mean? Like, I can never know any information about you besides, like, what is available online. And then whatever you think about these books, like, that's it. Like, if you get a dog, I don't want to know. Like, maybe you already have a dog. I don't want to.
- [51:49]
Tracy Thomas
I got a dog.
- [51:50]
Unnamed Guest
I have no interest in your dog. Like, you have these tattoos on your arms. I don't want to see them fully. Like, I don't want to know. I just. It's just you and me, Panem. Suzanne Collins, locked in forever.
- [52:04]
Tracy Thomas
Oh, my God, this is so nice. Okay, I am suggesting that we do a movie club when. When sunrise comes out, maybe, which will be next year. And then eventually she'll do another book and we'll do that, too. And we'll just only meet up to talk about this.
- [52:21]
Unnamed Guest
Oh, my God. It's like a blood pact. No, I love this.
- [52:25]
Tracy Thomas
I just. I just had the darkest flash forward to my own funeral. And, like, my grandparents, my grandkids, being like, you know, there was this American girl called Tracy. There's like, oh, that was grandma's Hunger Games for.
- [52:36]
Unnamed Guest
It's like, I'm gonna like, walk into the funeral and they're gonna be like, who's that? Like, who's that woman? And I'm just gonna be like, I knew your grandma in so many intimate ways that you'll never understand her love of violence and political thought. Like, it's gonna be some weird thing.
- [52:55]
Tracy Thomas
I love this so much. I mean, we simply have to leave it there. I gotta go to bed.
- [53:01]
Unnamed Guest
It's like midnight where you are. Is it later than midnight?
- [53:05]
Tracy Thomas
It's co. It's. It's like 10, but it's okay.
- [53:07]
Unnamed Guest
That's past my bedtime. So I thank you for staying up and doing this with me. This was a blast.
- [53:11]
Tracy Thomas
This is awesome. I've loved it. I'll see you for the next one.
- [53:33]
Advertiser
Popsicles, sprinklers, a cool breeze. Talk about refreshing. You know what else is refreshing this summer? A brand new phone with Verizon.
- [53:41]
Tracy Thomas
Yep.
- [53:42]
Advertiser
Get a new phone on any plan with select phone. Trade in in my plan and lock down a low price for three years on any plan with my plan. This is a deal for everyone, whether you're a new or existing customer. Swing by Verizon today for our best phone deals. 3 year price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate only. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers.