FULL LENGTH: “This Story Deserves the Best of Us” (with Cynthia Erivo)

Summary

Sentimental Men Podcast – Episode Summary: “This Story Deserves the Best of Us” (with Cynthia Erivo)
Release Date: December 9, 2024
Host/Author: Broadway Podcast Network
Duration: Approximately 1 hour and 30 minutes

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1. Introduction and Opening Banter (00:24 - 01:10)

The episode kicks off with Quincy Brown and Kevin Bianchi engaging in light-hearted conversation about their recent theater experiences. Quincy shares his excitement about watching "Death Becomes Her," mentioning the swift pacing and his first-time viewing of Megan Hilty live on stage. Kevin echoes his enthusiasm, describing the movie as one of his favorites and appreciating its contemporary humor.

Notable Quote:
Quincy (00:24): "They cheered for my resistance. Oh, I saw Death Becomes Her."
Kevin (00:33): "Do you want to talk about it?"

2. Theater Experiences and Encounters (01:10 - 03:43)

The hosts delve deeper into their theater experiences, highlighting memorable performances and notable personalities they encountered. Quincy recounts seeing Stephanie J. Block and Betty Buckley, adding excitement to his theater night. Kevin expresses his admiration for "Death Becomes Her," appreciating its cast, including Jane Krakowski, Debra Messing, Neil Patrick Harris, Michael Oberholtzer, and Constance Wu.

Notable Quote:
Quincy (02:01): "Stephanie and Leslie Margarita."
Kevin (02:26): "Leslie Kritzer would be fabulous."

3. Listener Reactions and Feedback (04:44 - 10:31)

The podcast transitions to sharing a listener's movie reaction. Kristin Chenoweth submits her thoughts on seeing "Wicked" in an Amazon Prime advanced screening. She describes her emotional response to the film, particularly the ASDA scene, and praises Michelle Yeoh's performance. The discussion includes highlights of the film's visual and emotional impact, with Quincy and Kevin adding their observations and excitement for the movie's success and soundtrack.

Notable Quote:
Kristin Chenoweth (06:18): "I couldn't even connect those dots."
Quincy (10:31): "Speaking of soundtrack, they released the Defying Gravity and popular edit versions because they're climbing up the Billboard charts, which I love."

4. Extended Interview with Cynthia Erivo (12:07 - 88:44)

a. Cynthia's Journey with "Wicked" (12:07 - 21:30)

Cynthia Erivo shares her personal connection to "Wicked," recounting how she first encountered the musical during drama school. She describes practicing the entire libretto with a friend and later attending a solo viewing in London at age 25. Cynthia explains how the character Elphaba resonated with her feelings of being different and not fitting in.

Notable Quote:
Cynthia Erivo (16:54): "I immediately took to Elphaba because I understood what it was like to just sort of, like, be, like different or not fitting in."

b. Audition Process and Casting (21:30 - 30:07)

Cynthia details her audition experience for the film adaptation, highlighting the respectful and thorough process led by director Jon M. Chu. She describes the three-hour audition, which included music and scene work, and her emotional reaction upon receiving the casting call. Cynthia emphasizes the supportive environment provided by Chu, allowing her to perform authentically.

Notable Quote:
Cynthia Erivo (27:01): "I had the chance to lose it. It was mine to lose."
Kevin (25:36): "You are on a for you page."

c. Filming and Technical Challenges (50:34 - 68:10)

Cynthia dives into the technical aspects of portraying Elphaba on screen, discussing the "greenifying" process—airbrushing green makeup tailored to her skin tone, prosthetics for freckles, and the detailed costume design. She explains the rigorous daily preparation, including early mornings, extensive makeup sessions, and harness work for flying scenes. Cynthia also shares insights into the choreography of iconic moments like "Defying Gravity," emphasizing the physical and emotional demands of the role.

Notable Quote:
Cynthia Erivo (53:29): "Freckles were a choice. Immediately I was like, I think she should have freckles."
Quincy (56:35): "You're going to be stunning in the second movie."

d. Emotional and Creative Collaboration (30:38 - 45:40)

Cynthia discusses her collaborative relationship with co-star Ariana Grande and the supportive dynamics on set with veterans like Idina Menzel and Kristin Chenoweth. She reflects on the emotional depth required for the role, particularly in scenes like the ASDA moment, and the significance of having Menzel fix her hat—a symbolic passing of the torch.

Notable Quote:
Cynthia Erivo (34:32): "We just like were, we got to know each other and then we went to John's house and just..."
Quincy (78:35): "It's beautiful."

e. Character Insights and Themes (72:01 - 75:20)

Cynthia offers a deep analysis of Elphaba's character, highlighting her journey from feeling out of place to embracing her unique identity. She explains that Elphaba's lack of anger towards the world allows her to connect and effect change, differentiating her portrayal from previous interpretations. Cynthia emphasizes the balance between hope and vulnerability in her performance.

Notable Quote:
Cynthia Erivo (75:17): "I need to have all of those within me. I'm not ashamed of hurt and anger and pain."

f. Rapid Fire Segment and Personal Reflections (85:29 - 88:44)

In a light-hearted rapid-fire segment, Cynthia, Quincy, and Kevin answer quick questions about set habits and personal quirks. They share humorous anecdotes about crying on set, staying in character, and the emotional intensity during scenes. Cynthia concludes by expressing her gratitude for the support from her peers and the meaningful connections formed during production.

Notable Quote:
Cynthia Erivo (87:52): "Defying Gravity. The last moment before I fly up in the air. That was her last shot in the film."

5. Closing Remarks and Additional Promotions (88:44 - 89:39)

As the interview wraps up, Quincy and Kevin thank Cynthia for her inspiring insights and heartfelt participation. They briefly promote related podcasts, encouraging listeners to explore more content that celebrates kindness and the arts.

Notable Quote:
Kevin (88:26): "I personally feel like the world could use a lot more kindness right now."
Cynthia Erivo (89:38): "Aww."

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Key Takeaways:

• Cynthia Erivo's Deep Connection: Cynthia's portrayal of Elphaba is rooted in her personal experiences of feeling different and excluded, bringing authenticity and emotional depth to the character.

• Rigorous Filming Process: The role required extensive physical preparation, green makeup application, and harness work, showcasing Cynthia's dedication and resilience.

• Collaborative Spirit: The supportive environment with co-stars and the passing of the torch from established actresses like Idina Menzel enriched the filming experience.

• Character Evolution: Cynthia emphasizes Elphaba's journey towards self-acceptance and her capacity to effect change without harboring anger, highlighting a nuanced character study.

• Emotional Investment: The intense emotional moments, particularly during pivotal scenes, underscore the profound impact of storytelling in musical theatre adaptations.

Conclusion:

This episode of "Sentimental Men" offers an intimate glimpse into Cynthia Erivo's transformative journey in bringing Elphaba to life on screen. Through candid conversations, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and heartfelt reflections, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the dedication, challenges, and emotional resonance involved in adapting a beloved musical for film. Cynthia's insights not only celebrate her artistry but also illuminate the collaborative and heartfelt nature of theatrical productions.

Transcript

[Kristin Chenoweth]

Hi, y'all.

[Cynthia Erivo]

This is Kristin Chenoweth. Hi, I'm Gloria Stefan. This is Sara Bareilles. Hi, I'm Patti LuPone. This is Lin Manuel Miranda. You're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo.

[Quincy]

And you're listening to the Sentimental Men podcast.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Visit VPN FM to discover more.

[Quincy]

They cheered for my resistance. Oh, I saw Death Becomes Her.

[Kevin]

I did too. Do you want to talk about it?

[Quincy]

Yeah, you tell me.

[Kevin]

Okay. Well, as you know, it's one of my favorite movies, so I was going in with high hopes. I don't want to say high expectations because that makes it sound like I was ready to be disappointed. I had high hopes and I really, really liked it. I thought it was really funny in a way that it felt 2024 funny, if that makes sense.

[Quincy]

Yeah, it moved so quickly. Like it started act one especially. I think you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we're going. And then it's intermission.

[Kevin]

Yes.

[Quincy]

That was my first time seeing Megan Hilty live on stage, which was really fun.

[Kevin]

Uh huh.

[Quincy]

That duo. Jensen Mars. Amazing. Oh, but oh my God, guess who was there. Who? None other than Stephanie J. Block.

[Kevin]

No.

[Quincy]

Yeah, we got to have a little Kiki. Also sitting behind me, directly behind me was Betty Buckley. It was kind of a popping night.

[Kevin]

Oh my God. Wait, you saw Death Becomes Her? With both Edwin Droods.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Oh my God.

[Quincy]

I wonder if Stephanie even knows that.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Wow.

[Quincy]

Wait, I gotta tell Casey.

[Kevin]

I'm truly gagged.

[Quincy]

I didn't even connect those dots.

[Kevin]

Oh my God.

[Cynthia Erivo]

That'S crazy.

[Kevin]

I mean, that's like a. That's two truths and a lie for you. Keep that in your back pocket.

[Quincy]

Well, one, as I was watching that show after we had talked, I was like, stephanie could do this. Stephanie could do either one of these roles.

[Kevin]

Stephanie could do either of those roles. And I feel like Stephanie could do it like Little Foxes with someone else who could do both of those roles. And they switch. Maybe not every night, maybe like every other week.

[Quincy]

Stephanie and like Leslie Margarita.

[Kevin]

Yes.

[Quincy]

Or Leslie Kritzer.

[Kevin]

Leslie Kritzer would be fabulous.

[Quincy]

Stephanie and Leslie Kritzer. Well, either. Either. Leslie.

[Kevin]

Either. Either.

[Quincy]

I think you would want to put Stephanie in the Jensen Mar track. However, when I was watching it, all I could do was picture her pulling off full Mike and Hilty drag doing blonde.

[Kevin]

Oh my God. I feel like Stephanie Jeanette Block would really thrive as Madeline Ashton because I think that aligns with the kind of goofy that.

[Quincy]

Well, that's why the humor. The style of humor is Stephanie J. Block's style.

[Kevin]

And that she has that pretty soprano, too. I would love to hear.

[Quincy]

Yeah, it's really fun. Everyone go see it. It's expensive looking. That is expensive production.

[Kevin]

Lush, baby. Paul Tazewell. Oh, doesn't disappoint.

[Quincy]

Oh, nice.

[Kevin]

Maybe he wins a Tony and an Oscar this year.

[Quincy]

That'd be cute. I also Kevin saw Shit meat fan at mcc. That was so freaking good. It's the best thing I've seen in a long time. Highly recommend. Really so funny. And it's like Jane Krakowski, Debra Messing, Neil Patrick Harris, Michael Oberholtzer, Constance Wu. And I hadn't heard much about it other than that cast. And then so I didn't know what to expect. I haven't stopped thinking about it since.

[Kevin]

Okay, I'm intrigued.

[Quincy]

How are you?

[Kevin]

I'm good. I have a new installment in Funny things that my students say to tell you.

[Quincy]

Let's hear it.

[Kevin]

Word got out about the podcast. Like, everyone at school was like, Mr. Bianchi, you're on my for you page.

[Quincy]

I didn't tell you this. There was, like, a deluge of YouTube comments of people being like, hi, Mr. Bianchi.

[Kevin]

Yeah, that's them. We're at the beginning of class, and this one girl's walking in and she goes, Mr. Bianchi, is it true you met Ariana Grande? And before I can even inhale to answer, this little girl hears the question, and without missing a beat, she goes, yeah, on a zoom call.

[Quincy]

I'm sure there is a snarky gay in Hell's Kitchen who would say the same.

[Kevin]

I was like, yeah, yeah, on a zoom call. You're right, Paul.

[Quincy]

That's funny. Before we get into our Cynthia extended convo, should we listen to a movie reaction from a listener?

[Kevin]

Yes, we should.

[Kristin Chenoweth]

Hi, Sentimental Pond. My name is Bria. I was privileged enough to have seen Wicked tonight for the Amazon prime advanced screenings on the 18th.

[Quincy]

Slightly up slightly.

[Kristin Chenoweth]

I got just, like, so many thoughts. I've recorded this more times now, and every time I finish recording, I'm like, no, forgot to say this, but everyone this past amazing, the shots and just all the, like, the little, not even new, but just, like, the execution of these songs and the line reading and the faithful lines of the show and the hints to the novels in the cameos. Amazing. Like, just amazing. Also, just for a visual for people to understand just how amazing and good this movie was. My screening ended, like, around, like, I want to say, 10pm and me and a lot of others in my theater did not leave until the screen was black. Like, we knew there was nothing after. To be continued in the title card. But we remained there because it was like you had to just soak it all in. We were soaking it all in.

[Quincy]

You did.

[Kristin Chenoweth]

Yeah, I did cry. And that was the ASDA scene. How can you not? I almost cried during Divine Gravity, but there was just so much going on. And I found myself even, like, not even blinking as much. Like, I had to keep in my head, remind myself to blink, but I just didn't want to because I wanted to soak everything in. Like, I didn't want to miss anything. I can't wait to watch this in 3D on Sunday because I feel like it's going to be such a joy in a blast.

[Quincy]

Oh, I heard 40x is the move.

[Kristin Chenoweth]

There is. There's, like, minor things now that I'm thinking about that I think are so funny that I have to give props to. So I have to give props to Fiero's horse. I just feel like if I was El in part two, I'm not saving that horse or I'm not defending them because we gotta. We got beat because. Why are you laughing for that long like you're a blue horse?

[Quincy]

Oh, it was a snarky horse.

[Kevin]

Oh, I see what she's saying.

[Quincy]

I get it. Yeah.

[Kristin Chenoweth]

Michelle Yeoh, like, we know that she's good. She got her Oscar and everything, but my goodness. And it was like, I know about this character, but it was like, really just watching her before your eyes, unveil, like a butterfly, like, show her true colors.

[Kevin]

Oh, that was poetic.

[Kristin Chenoweth]

Oh, my gosh. She seemed to miss evil. And then her hugging Glinda.

[Quincy]

That moment is chilling.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Kristin Chenoweth]

You don't care about me, but Glenn does not. I think I know that she's just so overwhelmed that she's not even processing this.

[Kevin]

Michelle Yeoh definitely brings out the parts. Yeah. Ukiuki history.

[Kristin Chenoweth]

I just wanna hug him. I'm so sorry. That secretary crazy to watch. Because you really just felt, like, the empathy for these markings.

[Quincy]

I don't need to be touching history, though.

[Kristin Chenoweth]

What amazing.

[Kevin]

All the animals, Dr. Dillman, best character.

[Kristin Chenoweth]

And just the. It was like, I kept like, I know. I know the story of Wicked. But it was like, so. I was so in my emotions with the Asda scene because it just felt so personal to me. Then you go back to Dr. Dillon being taken away, and I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, there's multiple, like, messages and stories.

[Quincy]

Of this movie, and that is Dangerous.

[Kristin Chenoweth]

Like, oh, my gosh. Like, just trying to process all of it. And I feel like with times going on now, it's just super parallel to the world. I mean, it's definitely what the world.

[Kevin]

We are not watching this movie in Kamala's America. Like, we hope so.

[Kristin Chenoweth]

Just the second. I don't even know why. It soon was going to be the opening for the movie. Like, I knew obviously no one wants the Wicked. But like, I was like, I don't think it's going to open on just set alone. But when it. When it started, I was like, oh, this is serious. Like, this is.

[Quincy]

I agree. I kind of thought something else.

[Kristin Chenoweth]

John is not playing. We waited 20 years for this, so.

[Quincy]

I'm glad it didn't though.

[Kevin]

Yeah, I liked that. It was just the overture.

[Kristin Chenoweth]

Elena or Melina. Oh, my gosh. What a woman. What a woman. I mean, I've read when I've read Freaking the Life and Times of the Wicked Witch in the west and by Craig McGuire. I was like, this woman is crazy and she don't wanna. She's not claiming Elphaba as her daughter. Girl, come on now. Grateful. I got to see an imax. I'm going to see IMAX again on Thursday and this is definitely going to be a comfort watch.

[Kevin]

Oh, gosh, I can't wait for it.

[Cynthia Erivo]

What?

[Kristin Chenoweth]

Just a movie of the year. My home screens next year cannot come fast enough. But I'm grateful that we have this. We'll have the soundtrack, but yes. And it's definitely a thousand out of ten for sure.

[Quincy]

Speaking of soundtrack, they released the Defying Gravity and popular edit versions because they're climbing up the Billboard charts, which I love. And I'm very grateful for it because now we got versions that I can put on a playlist that just go right into the song.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Quincy]

Which has always kind of been an ish.

[Kevin]

Congratulations to Michelle Yeoh, Billboard top 100.

[Quincy]

I think popular defying gravity could crack the top 10.

[Kevin]

Let's make it happen, guys. Let's do it for. Let's do it for them because they did it for us.

[Quincy]

Thanks for your message, Brea. I am desperate to see the movie in imax. I have yet to do that same.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Same.

[Quincy]

The opening sequence is circulating TikTok and so I did rewatch it and I saw the shot of the horse riding away. I'm still not sure if I have a theory on that yet or if I subscribe to your theory. Okay. To like.

[Kevin]

Well, let me know when you come around.

[Quincy]

I'm trying to get like the map of Oz down as it stands in the movie.

[Kevin]

Like Jeff Goldblum's set model.

[Quincy]

Cause I think that opening sequence, not to harp on this again, is zooming.

[Kevin]

Towards Shiz in the movie from Kiamiko over the yellow brick road towards the Emerald City.

[Quincy]

So she would be riding to the Emerald City?

[Kevin]

Well, no, she was going in the other direction, though, I think, because, remember, it goes over a waterfall and the horse is before the water.

[Quincy]

Gotta watch it again. Case still open.

[Kevin]

I gotta go see it in IMAX so that I can really see the details.

[Quincy]

All right, let's get into this Cynthia interview. We talked the Idina and Kristen cameo.

[Kevin]

I did just watch a clip of Jon M. Chu talking about how they landed on this moment of Idina and Kristen.

[Quincy]

What's the tea?

[Kevin]

He was like, you know, we always knew. We always knew they were going to be in the movie, but we didn't know where. And then he said originally the Wizzlemania section was going to be like. And it's a small world ride that they went on.

[Quincy]

Oh, seeing the history of the old wise ones, which then.

[Kevin]

I like that idea. Kind of, like, marries well with his little, like, model set of that all. Feels very like Walt Disney World's Fair kind of vibes. Yeah.

[Quincy]

Maybe that'll be the Universal Studios ride.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Well, I still. I want to define gravity roller coaster, though.

[Quincy]

What rides would you want?

[Kevin]

I want to be on a roller coaster and hear defying gravity blasting in my ears at full volume so that I can feel like I'm flying.

[Quincy]

And I want, like, a la Pirates of the Caribbean shiz. Just, like, get on a boat and.

[Kevin]

Ride Shiz through the Enchanted Forest. Yeah, off the Shiz campus. Out into the Enchanted Forest, down through the Ozdust. Wow, are we amusement park designers?

[Quincy]

All right, enjoy the extended interview.

[Cynthia Erivo]

We'll see you later.

[Kevin]

Bye.

[Quincy]

I'm Quincy.

[Kevin]

And I'm Kevin.

[Quincy]

And this is Sentimental Men.

[Kevin]

We're here to talk and maybe scream about our favorite women in musical theater.

[Cynthia Erivo]

If you love Broadway gossip, you are not gonna want to miss any episode of this podcast, Singular Sensation, the triumph of Broadway.

[Kevin]

Plenty of dramas unfold on stage, but.

[Cynthia Erivo]

The best dramas unfold backstage. And there were no bigger dramas than behind the scenes of Sunset Boulevard. So you were being crucified over here, but not there? No, no, because I was turning in a performance that would get standing of Asians. Excuse me. So check out my podcast, Singular Sensation, for all the juicy details of Sunset Boulevard.

[Quincy]

Cynthia Erivo, thank you so much for joining us on Sentimental Men. Today.

[Kevin]

Oh, it feels good to say this.

[Quincy]

Is such a moment during the midst of, like, the craziest moment of the Wicked press tour.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's actually nuts. We. We leave for Australia in three, three or four days.

[Quincy]

Is that the first premiere?

[Cynthia Erivo]

That's the first premiere.

[Quincy]

Gotcha. And then you're just traveling the world?

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yes.

[Kevin]

How are you feeling in this moment?

[Cynthia Erivo]

I'm feeling really excited. I thought I would be more tired than I am. I'm not. So I feel like I'm sort of ready to get going. I say that now speaks Me in two days, but I'm excited. I think it's going to be really special.

[Quincy]

Okay, so we start every interview with, how did Wicked the Musical come into your life as just a person?

[Cynthia Erivo]

Wicked the Musical came into my life when I was about 20 years old at drama school. I was sort of like, the odd one out at drama school. I always felt sort of different. And a friend of mine, or someone who became a friend, his name is Michael P. And he could play piano and I could sing. And he spotted me and was like, hey, you, do you want to sing some stuff? And I said, well, yeah, sure. So he picked up a couple librettos, and one of those librettos happened to be Wicked. So we went to a little room with a piano and we kept playing the music. And I learned the music before I saw the show.

[Quincy]

And what were you singing?

[Cynthia Erivo]

Oh, the whole. The front to back. So we're singing everything. So when I say I knew the music, I learned the libretto, we just went through Day by Day and went back and went all the way through it often. So I knew everything. I think his favorite song. I want to say his favorite song was. It wasn't the wizard. And I. I think he kept asking me to sing that one, but we sung it all. It was a toss up between that and Dream Girls. That's what we. And then when I was 25, I took myself on a solo date to see the musical in London. And that was. That's history. So then 10 years later, do you.

[Quincy]

Remember who you saw in London as Elphaba and Glinda?

[Cynthia Erivo]

I don't. And I think I went to see the show. Not just to see the show, but also because I think a friend of mine was running the sound desk during that. But I can't remember who it was.

[Quincy]

I saw talk to us about that first experience seeing it.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I immediately took to Elphaba because I understood what it was like to just sort of, like, be, like, different or not fitting In. And I know something went off in my brain, and I never forgot that moment. It was sort of one of those moments that sort of stuck with me. I felt. I said before that it felt like I floated home because I couldn't get the feeling out of my head. I couldn't get out of my body. I remember loving it. I sat in the. In the dress circle, what you would call the. Not the balcony, but like the.

[Kevin]

The mezzanine.

[Cynthia Erivo]

The mezzanine, yeah. Where the flying monkeys come into the audience.

[Quincy]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Erivo]

And I was. I felt like a kid. I was like, oh, my God. What is. What's happening? It's just. It was one of the most wonderful experiences because I felt like there was something I had recognized on a stage, and it was something that I wanted to be a part of. Yeah.

[Kevin]

At that point, like, when you're learning this music in drama school with your friend and you're seeing the show, are you identifying this as, like, this is something I want to do in my career, you know, as an actress? I want to be in the show. I want to play this part.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I didn't know if it was playing the part, but I knew I loved the music. So I think. I think the grander scheme of musical was something. I knew that I wanted to be a part of my career for sure. Yeah. I think when I saw it, I was like, oh, I like that part. There's something about that part that could. That feels good. That feels right. Yeah.

[Quincy]

So then, as you started building your stage career, did the opportunity to play it on stage ever come up in those years? Really?

[Cynthia Erivo]

Never.

[Quincy]

Especially with the voice you have?

[Cynthia Erivo]

No. I mean, it never came up. Yeah. Well, there's. We now know there's a reason why it did.

[Kevin]

Yes. Yes. Everything for a reason.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Yeah. So then how did it come up? How did it come up to you the first time with this film?

[Cynthia Erivo]

I knew that they were seeing people for the film, and I told my team to not say anything to me at all. I don't want to know. Don't tell me anything unless it looks like it might come my way. Other than that, I was just like, I don't want to know it. Don't tell me about it. Because I think a part of me was like, if I. If I just ignore what's happening and it doesn't come my way, I. I won't feel that hurt by it. Because I think deep down, I knew that I would love to have been a part of it. So I was like, if I don't have If I'm not connected, if I don't know anything about it, then I can. I can go on about my business. I can, like, protect your feelings. Yeah, I can protect myself. And I'm. I'm good. But then. Then I bumped into John at some event and we talked, and then we talked again. And then.

[Quincy]

Who brought up Wicked?

[Cynthia Erivo]

I think he might have brought up Wicked. He said, so we're doing this, and I know you're directing. Great. Yeah. And I think. And I think we were just sort of, like, having a discussion about what I felt this person would be and what their story was and this person, meaning Alphabet, and who she was and what she meant to me and what I could possibly bring to it. And I think he just took that into consideration. And then we went away. And I remember we had a conversation. The next conversation we had so. So ridiculously bougie. The next conversation we had was, I think, the day of the Met Gala. So the next conversation we had was that met Gala, 2020, 2022 or 2021. And I was in a hotel and we zoomed and we just chatted about it. And then I got. Then I got the call to say, they want you to go in. And I think I was the last person they saw.

[Quincy]

Right. Like, had you been hearing about other people going in for it at this point?

[Cynthia Erivo]

And I kept telling them, just, I don't care. Don't tell me, please. I don't want to know. I don't want to know. And they were like, they might call you in. It looks like they might call you in. I said, when they call me in, tell me, please. And when they. When they called me in, it was. I. It was so respectful because they. He called me just to do. It was like a screen test, but it was three hours. I was there for three hours. I worked with two other actresses, scenes, songs, damn near all of them, which. And I was so ready for it because I remember when I. When I got the sides and the music, I trained like a boxer. So I ran things. Thank you so much. I ran whilst I was singing. I would pace and, like, just getting movement into my body so I could be ready to do it when I got there. Learned this singing in the shower over and over again, repeating everything over and over again. Reading these scenes over and over again because I just wanted to be. When I got there, I wanted to be so present in it that I wasn't really thinking about which words were coming out my mouth, which song was coming out. And I remember the day Before I had a concert at Disney Hall. This is the wildness of my life. I had a concert at Disney with the LA Philharmonic and Gustavo Dudamel conducting. And I knew once I finished, I needed to get home very quickly because I was in the next day early to do this audition. And I was. I just was so ready to go in and show what I had. Yeah, yeah.

[Quincy]

So take us inside. That first audition, what were you doing? And then how are you feeling after the fact?

[Cynthia Erivo]

When I. The first audition I went in with, I. So I was just like, ready, let's. Let's go. Let's do this. I think it was early we went through the music, we. Because I think I got there and I was on my own for a little bit before the first actress showed up. And we sort of practiced with the pianist who was there that day. It was very lovely. I remember that. No, he was very sweet and like. Yeah, like, warm. And he played beautifully as well, which is sometimes very rare at an audition. Like, there was no rush. It was like, let's play all the. All the incidentals. We're gonna do all of that, you know? And I remember thinking, oh, this is nice. Oh, I can sing. Sing with this. This is good. So I went through the music with him, and then the first actress comes in and then we start going through the scene work. And I just. I remember feeling really present for all of it. And there was a point where John asked me about my relationship to Wicked and how I'd come to it. And when I. When I went to explain what happened at my drama school, it made me really emotional because I think I. It was the first time I'd realized I really did feel out of sorts at drama school. Like, I really didn't feel like I fit in that place. And this particular piece was a little space to go to that where I did fit, you know, That's. That's what this piece did for me whilst I was at drama school. And so I think that it dawned on me that that was what was happening at drama school. And to come round to it at this point, to do it this way, just felt really massive. Yeah.

[Quincy]

So how long was your audition process.

[Cynthia Erivo]

In all that day? Three hours.

[Quincy]

That was it.

[Cynthia Erivo]

That was it.

[Kevin]

One and done.

[Cynthia Erivo]

One and done.

[Quincy]

Wow.

[Kevin]

And to be clear, Ariana was not either of those chemistry reads.

[Cynthia Erivo]

She was not, no.

[Quincy]

When did you get the call after that first audition?

[Cynthia Erivo]

I want to say it was about two or three weeks after.

[Quincy]

Wow, that's fascinating, because I think Ariana told us about she had a three month process.

[Cynthia Erivo]

She was in, she. She went in four or five times.

[Kevin]

Wow. And so what were those two, three weeks like after? It was like, I don't want to hear about it. I want to hear about it.

[Cynthia Erivo]

It was hellish. I was like, when are we finding out? For God's sakes, please. When are we finding out? And I was in the middle of. What was I doing? I think I was doing Luther at that point. So I was in London, like just waiting, just waiting and buding my time and figuring it out and working. It's just the anticipation of like, what is happening? Is it happening? Is it not happening? Have I got it? Have I not got it? What's going on? I think what John. I think Jon did both of us a favor. I think Jon did the wonderful thing of allowing Ariana to deconstruct the thing that has been built, the person who's been built, so that she could just be in the room. And I think he did me the service of giving me the chance to lose it. It was mine to lose. I think when he so the way he had set it up. So when I, when he brought me in, I had all the tools I needed and I had the time I needed to be as ready as I possibly could be. And so it, it was sort of like take it and run or leave.

[Quincy]

It sounds like you felt very safe in that room.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I did. No, I really did.

[Quincy]

So then you get the call. What is the first thought that comes into your head?

[Cynthia Erivo]

I have to tell you how the call happens though, because my team, my, they are dramatic. Just dramatic. Ridiculous and dramatic. I get an email, I get an email that says, cynthia, we've got this piece of IP and we think it could be really good for your production company. And Yoon Salome, who's my production partner, I think we need to jump on a call at some point. And then I get a text from my agent. Actually, you know what, Cynthia? I think we should jump on a call like right now because now is. It's going to go and I know it's late there, but it's not so late here. But the author is like ready to go and have a conversation about it. It's 1:00am in London.

[Kevin]

Oh my gosh.

[Cynthia Erivo]

It's 1am in London. First of all, why does my team know that I'm going to be awake?

[Quincy]

Why is that like an okay thing to ask?

[Cynthia Erivo]

They just know I'm going to be awake at 1am in the morning. And they're correct because that's how I am. So I read this email. I'm like, okay. And I text back, okay, I'm ready. And I'm in my pajamas. So I'm like, but my pajamas don't look like pajamas. So that's good. We'll keep that on. Let's put a pair of glasses on. Let's go. I'm ready. So I get myself set up on the sofa, and if I just have like, the, you know, right waist up, we're good. It's perfect. And I put this computer on. He's like, I get a zoom link. Zoom link comes on. John Shoe's name comes up. It's 1:00am in the morning, remember? So I go, john Chu. Maybe he knows something about the book. I don't know. Then faces start coming up on the screen. I'm still not. I still don't have it. I'm like, what is this? I guess there's another to talk about. Maybe everyone's involved. Who knows?

[Quincy]

Like, all right, who's leading this meeting?

[Cynthia Erivo]

Like, nothing is. Nothing is connecting. Nothing's connecting. And then John starts to talk about this girl who was at this drama school who felt like she was out of sorts. And she would go to this room and sing the music. And then she walks into this room one day and starts singing about this green girl. And I'm like. And now everything's starting to piece together. And I'm like, don't play with me. Don't play. And he goes, And I don't know what planet you came from, but I think the rest of the world should see more of you. And I just. I was lost it. I lost it. We want you to be our Alphabet. And I just. I don't even think I could f. I couldn't be articulate. All I could do was cry. And in that, like, I have glasses on. I put my head. My head and my arms. The glasses flip up over my head. I just am like. All I could say is, thank you very much. Because it's sort of like the culmination of a dream that you didn't realize that you even had until you had to be in the situation of wanting the dream. Yeah, it was the wildest moment ever. I cannot tell you what happened for the rest of the night.

[Quincy]

Right. Like, was there banter on the zoom after? Did you hang up?

[Cynthia Erivo]

I have no idea. I think we had a little chat. Everything was a blur after that. I don't know who I called after. I think I called my mom. It was 1:00am in the morning. I was like, it's 1:00am in the morning. I can't call my.

[Quincy]

Who do I call?

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yeah, what time? How early is it? Too early to call anyone. Like what? I don't know if I slept that night.

[Quincy]

Did you know who your Glinda was in that call or did that come later?

[Cynthia Erivo]

I think I found out a little later after that call. Like that. The same day.

[Quincy]

Gotcha.

[Cynthia Erivo]

That it was Ari, which did not surprise me one bit. I was not surprised at all. I was deeply relieved because I knew it was going to be handled in the best way possible.

[Quincy]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Erivo]

That was like, oh, good. Fabulous. That's what we do. Yeah. I was like, it was one of the most incredible moments to experience, one of the most surreal things to experience.

[Quincy]

So then what was the immediate excitement and also apprehension as you're coming to terms with the fact that you're about to embark on the. This journey.

[Cynthia Erivo]

The excitement. I don't think either one of us could fathom how big this was. I think we had an idea of the fact that this was big, but I don't think we really let ourselves understand the size of it, even seeing.

[Quincy]

What it's doing now. I'm like, wow, this is a thing.

[Cynthia Erivo]

This is a thing.

[Quincy]

I love Wicked, and this is a thing.

[Cynthia Erivo]

This is a thing. And. But every day feels like, oh, oh, this is like a thing. This is a thing. Yeah. Yeah. You know when you. You see people running to Target and grabbing Stanley cups and fighting over Stanley cups, You're like, oh, this is a thing. And someone, you know, a doll comes to a doll with your face on it.

[Kevin]

Yeah. I mean, hello comes to you.

[Cynthia Erivo]

And someone says, can you sign my doll? And you go, my face is on a doll.

[Quincy]

I'm Mattel Barbie.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I'm a tell. I'm a Barbie, guys.

[Kevin]

You are a Barbie.

[Cynthia Erivo]

My nose and my lips are on a Barbie. Like, what is happening? That's. None of us could fathom that this would be what it. What it is right now. I. I went through times. I was driving past times, and there's the most ridiculously huge billboard combined with a huge moving billboard and a double and a poster of the both of us. And then there's. I don't even. I've never seen myself that big in my life. Like, what is that? It's insane. The whole thing is insane. Neither one of us could probably could possibly have fathomed that that was what was going to happen. But I think we also. What we did know intrinsically was how special this thing was. We were both really clear on the fact that we wanted to not just do a good job, but really take care of this. Like, take as much care of this as we possibly could. And to do that, we did the opposite of fanfare. We sort of like went right zero in. How do we do this? Where do we begin? What do we need? And that was, that's how we've done this from, from the beginning.

[Quincy]

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[Kevin]

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[Quincy]

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[Cynthia Erivo]

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[Kevin]

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[Kevin]

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[Quincy]

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[Cynthia Erivo]

She and I knew we needed to come together first without everybody. So she came to my house and we sat and we chatted. We just like were, we got to know each other and then we went to John's house and just, it was him, Winnie, Stephen, Aramis, Stephen Schwartz, myself and Ari. And we just sort of, I think, did Johnny come? I want to say maybe Jonny came.

[Quincy]

And how does that conversation even get kicked off with that group? Where do you start?

[Cynthia Erivo]

John is really good at, start like giving good speeches. John is very good at like opening the floor.

[Quincy]

Gotcha.

[Cynthia Erivo]

It's, it's like, it's like secret talent that he has. So he's like. So I wanted to welcome everyone. I know we're about to go on this big journey. And he has like a table laid out of like a costume, like, because he'd been working with Paul. So Paul has like some examples of what the costumes might be like. And he has sweet, sweet man. He got little trays, like little yellow brick roads for us. Like model yellow brick roads for each of us. So we have that and we signed, each one of us signed it. So we have this, I have mine put on a tray and like I've kept that. And so we have it. He opens the floor up that way. And then at some point in the day we have a dinner together. So we all sit, we break bread together. And then in the evening, Ari and I sing with Stephen Schwartz, and that's the first time we sing together. And the first time we sing together, we sing for good.

[Quincy]

And you've worked with Stephen before?

[Cynthia Erivo]

This is my first time working with Stephen.

[Quincy]

Oh, really? Okay.

[Cynthia Erivo]

My first time working with Stephen. It's my first time singing with Ari.

[Quincy]

Gotcha. A moment.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Wow.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Big day. Big day. But it was wonderful, and I think that moment for Ari and I was really special because it was the first time we had heard our voices together, and we quickly realized that we. It works.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Erivo]

And there is nothing more wonderful than realizing that your voice works with someone else's. It is really special, especially if this is the first time you've sung together. Right. We had not practiced. We had not sung this before. It just worked.

[Quincy]

Yeah. Were there tears?

[Cynthia Erivo]

Oh, yes.

[Kevin]

Yes, I have tears.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yes, there are tears. Yes, there were tears. There was. We were both speechless. We didn't know what to say. It's because it's an emotional thing to be able to. An emotional and vulnerable thing to have to sing with someone when you've not sung with them before. You really do have to open yourself up to that person and allow yourself to hear them and allow yourself to be heard, to combine your voices. The way that happened, and we did it immediately, and that was really special. I think that. And that moved us both. It was sort of like an indication of what the rest of this was going to be like. If we could do that without having done this before, if we could do that with no practice, if we could do that in front of a room of people with nothing, no makeup, nothing, then we could. Then we could really do this.

[Quincy]

Yeah. You know, you and Ariana have both talked about this pact you made at the beginning of the process to protect and take care of each other. Can you talk a little bit more about what that looks like day to day as you go through this journey.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Day to day, it's sort of allowing we're making decisions together, always making decisions together, always moving together. So it's never. I'm never over there and she's over here. We're always, like, in tandem. And if we. If. And we were always looking out for each other as well. So if. Say, for instance, there was a. If there's a particular scene that needs a little quiet or I need a little bit of privacy or. Or time, and it's. And it doesn't feel like that she would take on the task of going, hey, she needs quiet. Or if. If Ari is in a particular. Because we both need different Things to make the moment. We both need different things to get us where we need to be. Ari needs contact when. When. When there's emotion, so she needs to be close. So I'd just be there with her for a second. And sometimes I need to be, like, alone to find myself in, and she would give me the space. Or if we're working on something and both of us need a break and it feels like we're. It's running away from us. Both of us make the agreement. Should we ask. I think we should take the break. Should we ask? Then we ask together. Hey, both of us would really love a break, if that's possible. You know, sort of taking the responsibility to. To work in the atmosphere together. That sort of. And also just like, being comfortable having conversations because we. We built this relationship not just for Wicked, but for outside. For. For us as two human beings outside of this film, but as like, with two women together. So that means opening yourself up to conversations that might have to come up. Things that, you know, if I. If I've had a bad day, then I want to have the conversation with her. And it's not necessarily the prettiest conversation, but she's open and open for me to have that conversation. If she hasn't had a great day and something's going on and she wants to discuss something and figure something out, my phone is on, or she. If I need to come over, she has to come over. Whatever it is, we're always there for each other. Not just for the good moments, but for moments that are a little more complicated, you know?

[Quincy]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Erivo]

That. That means that there's a level of honesty and intimacy that allows for us to actually. To make something like this because the intimacy is necessary to make something as big as this at least feel connected, you know?

[Kevin]

Yeah. And something that I think reads so, so clearly in your performance, your joint performance is like the love story of these two women. It is a story about these two women learning how to love each other and hearing the ways that you are taking care of each other off stage or not off stage, off. Not in front of the camera. It all clicks.

[Cynthia Erivo]

It's like.

[Kevin]

Well, that is so tangible and permeable on screen.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I mean, it's like a daily. Sort of a daily recitative. You know what I mean? We speak to each other every day. If we don't speak to each other every day, we will. We will have text each other. Even if it's just like, hey, have a good day. We'll just. What's going on? I Have to do a speech at something. And I was running it and checking it and rewriting, and I wasn't sure about it. So I was like, so I've read it to her already. And then I had to go away and rewrite something else. And I sent it to her. It's like, I finished it, but she remembered that was writing the speech. So she said, hey, I think you're finishing the speech today. Send it to me if you want. Let me. Let me have a read if you. I want to hear how it's going. So I sent her the speech. She read it. She was like, that feels good. It feels really genuine. I was like, there's no. Nothing that we need to, like, change. No, that's really great. I like that. I love this. And picking specific moments. So it's like a true, honest understanding of what I'm doing. And music comes. We were. I. While she was making her album, I was making my album. So I'm listening to her music. She's been listening to my music. I finally finished mine. I've sent her the music. She's listened to it. She's come back with, this is how we function, you know, so it's true understanding of who we are, what we need. And it's an ongoing back and forth in life in general.

[Quincy]

Cynthia, can we talk about the filming of the ASDA scene? Just because Chris Murphy alluded to it in his cover story. And when we were talking to Ariana, she. There seems to be like some sort. Like something feels important about the filming of that scene, and I would love to hear your take on it.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yeah. So when we. When we started rehearsing it, I think they. They had had a dance choreographed already. And when we. When we did it, I remember thinking, this doesn't feel like her movement. So I was like, can we just start from the beginning and find out how she moves? Just find out what she does. Because I knew that I didn't want it to be her discovering movement for the first time. I knew that I didn't want it to be her learning to dance. I knew that I wanted it to be someone who understands movement but in a different way. She's learned to move differently. She's had different experiences. She's been raised in a different way and so hasn't been to dance parties, but. But understands movement but her own way. It's very individual to her. So we created something that felt like Elphaba. And then I had questions about, well, why would she put the hat back on There has to Be a reason why she puts this hat back on. And then we sort of decided, well, what if she decides to imbue this thing that when she first saw it, she thought was beautiful, she thought was different and strange, like her could see herself in the hat. So if we put the. Take this hat off because of the hurt, there's a choice to put it back on. So what if you fill it with power? What if it really does become an emblem of something that holds power? Maybe this is like the first time she casts something unknowingly, but she does that. And then that dance isn't just a spell to cast, but it's sort of an ownership of space, an ownership of her loneliness, an ownership of her hurt, an ownership of her difference and her separation and. And shooting. It was just painful. Yes, but in the most beautiful way, because she has to be brave enough to do it in front of everybody. She has to be brave enough to say, okay, fine, I'll be on my own. I'll do it by myself, you know? So she takes up this space, which is a brave thing to do anyway, and places herself right in the center of it. And there's a level of vulnerability, insecurity, hurt, pain, love. That has to come to the surface when you do that. And when we did, it was deathly silent. And I think thumbs.

[Quincy]

And what are you, as Cynthia, bringing to that moment?

[Cynthia Erivo]

I. I just thought of all of the times where I felt like I was alone, and I thought of all the times where I felt like I didn't feel seen. And I felt. I thought of all the times where you don't feel accepted in a crowd, and you feel that you stand out, but you don't want to stand out. I just knew that those are the things that she. That would come to the surface for her. And there is a particular kind of pain that comes from feeling like you finally found someone who sees you a little bit, and when it becomes a betrayal, it's just hard. Yeah. And I think that that's. That final moment where she looks at Glinda is less of a. Less an accusation. But why would you do this to me? Wow. You know? Yeah. I always feel like it was like a pleading of, like, what. What did I do to deserve this? You know? Yeah. And I think. I think in that moment, they. They really see each other.

[Kevin]

It's.

[Cynthia Erivo]

When Glinda sees. Oh, it's another. It's a human. That's a human being.

[Quincy]

It gets her to snap out of it.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yeah. And that. That moment where Belinda Dances on her own and tries to do this dance. I always think is the most vulnerable moment of, like, asking for forgiveness and wanting to connect. And the first time, Elphaba, sort of. She says, follow me. And she puts her hands and waits. That's a. Okay. Should we start again? And that's when they start to discover each other. And Ari didn't. Ari always wanted to. Whenever we would do the dance together, she would try to forget it. She didn't want to over rehearse it because she wanted to learn on the spot. So it was like teaching a person this piece. Her language. Fresh every time. Yeah.

[Quincy]

Thank you for sharing that. That's really beautiful. And it's kind of blown up how I view that moment in the movie now.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Erivo]

And we weren't intending to take. It wasn't like the intention to be like, we will not have any laughs at all. I just. I just knew what I wanted to say for her.

[Quincy]

Right.

[Cynthia Erivo]

And that's what I wanted to say for her. Yeah.

[Quincy]

There's something interesting there, too, with that take on the moment of Elphaba's ability to feel that betrayal, but then easily choose to forgive quickly.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yeah. Yeah. I think she wants to be loved as well. And I also think that. I think Elphaba has this wonderful way of seeing past the. The veneer. She does it with Fiero. She does it with Dr. Dillerman. She does. She sees. She. In some people, it takes longer than the others, but she does it with the wizard. She does it with Madam Morrible. She sees past things. She sees what she wants to see because she's a hurt being. So with Madame Morrible, she doesn't see soon enough because she feels really accepted. It's someone who wants her for her. And it's like, oh, my gosh. Someone's. They see me, they think this thing that I have hated my whole life is a talent. It's a talent. I've never been hurt. She'd never heard it called a talent before. She was sent away because it. It scared people. You know, it was the destruction of her for a long time. Now, all of a sudden, it's the one thing that makes her special.

[Quincy]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Erivo]

So she. I think she's a little bit blind in it. I think she doesn't see Madame Morrible for what she is until it's too late. Well, almost too late. But with everyone else, she kind of gets them. She sees the thin veil and goes past it.

[Quincy]

Something that comes up a lot with the actresses we speak to who do the role on stage is obviously how demanding this role is to do. You are the only actress who has done this role on film. So I would love to hear about the just logistics of playing Elphaba on screen.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Logistics. The logistics of doing Elphaba on screen.

[Quincy]

Starting with getting green. I guess we haven't talked about that yet.

[Cynthia Erivo]

So my, my mornings, because we would. We would often start early. My mornings would probably start at like 3am in the morning. I would work out because she is quite physical and there's lots of flying and there's lots of harness work. So I needed to make sure that my body was ready to take on all of that. But I would. So I get ready in the morning. I get in. Depending on when they needed me in the chair could be 6:00, could be 5:00, depends. And I'd be in the chair from for two hours and 45 minutes to sometimes four hours. When we had full body, it was four hours. Because we would sometimes. So anytime between that amount of time.

[Quincy]

And what is the greenifying process?

[Cynthia Erivo]

So greenifying process is we have airbrushing with paint just like a. It's like an alcohol based paint. You would. We'd have a primer first. They made. They made greens specific to me. So there were greens that had my tone in. In it. So I. There's like a highlighter yellow almost in the. In that the. The green airbrushing paint and there's like a, a warmer yellow in the primer so that my skin tone would still come through to a point. So it wouldn't. So but the green would match me. We tried a different. We tried a bunch of different greens before we landed. And then this green was made because the first green was. Had pink in it and it was too chalky. So we needed something that was a bit warmer so it would match my skin tone. And what we would do is put in the definition first with a deep, deep, like a dark purple, almost black. My cheekbones and my freckles. I want to say my freckles will go on after. So we have primer, then the definition. We're going. So cheekbones and freckles would go on.

[Quincy]

Were freckles always a choice from the get go?

[Cynthia Erivo]

Freckles were a choice. Immediately I was like, I think she should have freckles. I think because there's something about the freckles that make. That makes her really endearing that and it sort of opens up the face. And I thought that was a really cool thing to try. And also it gave me Because I thought about all of the things that we associate with witches. So it's like the wart on the nose or the wart on the wart on the chin. And what I. What I loved was that I thought of those things as folklore. So what was originally a beauty spot.

[Quincy]

Became turned into a wall.

[Kevin]

Right.

[Cynthia Erivo]

You know, so you see all these freckles, and then there's one like that just is like, on its own. There's one that's on its own. So when we move further on, you'll start. You'll see that more freckles appear, but they're in different places. Interesting as is with what would happen when you. When you grow older. And so we would. We would again, prime. Put in our definition, and the freckles would go on. We made a vacuum form of my face and poked the holes in the freckles where the freckles were so that the freckles would stay in exactly the same place every single time.

[Kevin]

Brilliant.

[Cynthia Erivo]

So that was what we would do. And then the airbrush would go over. Now my head would be airbrushed. Because when you put the wig on, my scalp also needs to be green.

[Kevin]

Right?

[Cynthia Erivo]

So when my hair moves around, you see my scalp through the braids. But it is. It's my scalp that is green, which I love because it meant that it felt like it's all connected. And the wig itself had tinted green lace, so it wouldn't show. It was like it disappeared on my head. I didn't necessarily need to take out my piercings. Now, they weren't earrings like this, but they were all flat studs. So we had prosthetics over my ears. So we do prosthetics to cover up the holes in the piercings. So the ears that you see aren't my. They're my ears, but they're not. They're covered by a prosthetic, but the prosthetic is my color first. So they would actually spray that to be the matching green. His process, it's really love. The wig itself was always styled, and we. We knew that we. You'll see that there's, like a little baby hair. There's like a little curly baby hair that's always in the front of my head. We were very specific about that one kiss curl, that tiny little baby curl that was always in it. Sometimes it's facing this way, sometimes it's facing that way, but it's always there. But my wig stylist and wig maker worked together to make sure that the hair would change as we Go along. So in the beginning, it's sort of inner side braid tight together. And you'll notice as we go through, it gets looser and looser. So then it gets. You know, we have the rolls and that when we get. After the. After the Oz dust and she's been galindified, I asked for them to give me a hairstyle that was Galinda adjacent, which is why you get that sort of, like.

[Kevin]

Right.

[Cynthia Erivo]

And head down. And then when she's. When Fiera walks by and says, you don't have to do that, you know, that role becomes this. So it's like a proper Victoria role. And then the rest is just like. So she. She. She starts to find herself stylistically as we move through the piece. And that was something I knew I wanted to do, grow her as we went along. And the braids get a little longer and they get a little freer. They get a little wavier. So there's more movement in it.

[Quincy]

You're going to be stunning in the second movie.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yeah.

[Quincy]

The way we're trending.

[Cynthia Erivo]

So it's a thing. It's a thing. And it does. It just. It does change. The trajectory of it is like it's moving towards something that feels freer and wilder, and it's a lot. And I love. I love what we. What we. How we grew it. None of the makeup on my face, except for the definition, is any other color than green. Ah. So eyeliner is green. The lash, the eyeshadow green, lipstick green, lip liner green. It's all shades of green, but we found all the different shades of green so that we could find dimension and things and something I wanted, because I was like, what I want. Is it all to come from the shades that she like. It's her. So we used loads of different things, and we had, like, a green gel. So the palms of her hands were green, but they still look like palms.

[Kevin]

Right.

[Cynthia Erivo]

So they're not the same as the back of her hand. They're very much like. You know how your palms are lighter than the rest of you?

[Quincy]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Erivo]

The green is slightly lighter and slightly translucent. So my skin tone comes through, but it's still green.

[Quincy]

We keep it coming.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I love to do it. I loved. I love being involved in all of this. So I would. I would do my lips and my. And my. I would get in my eyes and stuff, so they would leave, like, my lips. I would always do myself because I love to be involved in, like, the shading of it and making that happen. I would always do my eyeliner nails were a big part of this. I took the inspiration originally from the picture of Margaret Hamilton. You know, she's to the side.

[Quincy]

Yes.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I, when I went to. I. I've seen the picture many times and then I went back to the picture and I thought, what am I seeing? So I saw a couple of the film and I realized, well, she hasn't. She has nails. She has a set of nails and they're really long, very long. I was like, well, where does that come from? That can't just like come out of nowhere. So what do we do to make it feel like it's part of the DNA of her and it's just different enough for us to think, well this isn't just. Isn't just like a full set of nails. It's just some. How her DNA does something to the way things grow. So she has nails. And so we, we went through a set of different ideas of what the nails could look like. And then we settled on the idea that the. It's just an extension of the green. So the first time you see her nails, they're just that they're sort of jade esque. They're like an ombre green that get lighter towards. And when she goes to the Emerald City, it changes because she gets there. We see them get their nails done.

[Kevin]

Right.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Then they become darker on purpose because we're moving in that direction. And that is also something that progresses to four. Yeah. Something to lock away from, but to. Yes. And then John and I had a conversation about how far do we want to take the green?

[Kristin Chenoweth]

How.

[Cynthia Erivo]

How deeply into her DNA do we want it to be? And I was like, what if, what if we changed my eye color so that it feels like there's just one more thing that removes her a little bit. And so we went on a search for the right eye color. There were these green lenses that were really pretty. There were a pair of hazel lenses that were cool. We had some lenses painted. Wow. One with like blue eyes, like a blue iris, but like a hazel around it. And the one was with a green. And we tried them all and some of them felt too far away and you couldn't get. You couldn't see through. Yeah, you can't see through to me. And he was like, it kind of cuts the audience off. It cuts us off. And we want to see your emotion. And the hazel didn't transform enough. So we landed back on the green because for some reason that green both let us in and held us at a little bit of a distance. So you know, there's something different about her. But also, you can come in, you.

[Quincy]

Almost forget you're green watching the movie.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cynthia Erivo]

And I. I kind of wanted that. I kind of wanted. I kind of wanted it to feel like, oh, she's been in the skin her whole life. This is. She sees this every day. This is.

[Kevin]

This is not novel to her.

[Cynthia Erivo]

No.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Quincy]

What is the degree process?

[Cynthia Erivo]

Every day, an hour and a half long.

[Quincy]

You're doing this every day?

[Cynthia Erivo]

Every day. Most of the time, I would be the last person on set because I was still taking everything off.

[Quincy]

Oh, my God.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I didn't go home with any of it. And if I went home with it, I couldn't take it off myself. So there's, like, a particular, like, oil or balm that takes all the green off. I just. And we would have full skincare, the whole lot. And then I would go back because you would inevitably be left with, like, a sheen of green. So I would. When I would get back home, I would then do another wash to get it all off.

[Quincy]

Did you have any skin issues through this process?

[Cynthia Erivo]

No, my skin was the best it's ever been in my life.

[Quincy]

Wow.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Insane. I don't know how that happened.

[Quincy]

Now that we are green.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Now that we're green, we then go into costume. And the costume was layers of things.

[Kevin]

Right.

[Cynthia Erivo]

So it's like we've got. Sometimes if we. If we were under. If. If I had, like. Man. Most of my sleeves were kind of, like, sheer and see through, so you could see my arms. And the problem with that is that if it's underneath and it's rubbing on things, then the makeup comes off. So we created, like, a netted top that went under everything that sort of stopped here where my. Where my makeup would stop if my arms were covered. And so it was the perfect match of green to the rest of me. So you have that. And then if we have tights on, we would have one pair of the green tights that match everything. So there's, like, a body type. The whole thing before my. My. Which. I love my fishnets.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Pattern fishnets that we. That came on. So we have those. And then I'm corseted all the time.

[Quincy]

Real corset?

[Cynthia Erivo]

No, a real corset.

[Quincy]

Okay.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Pulled corset before the shirt and before the dress or whichever costume went on.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Cynthia Erivo]

That was the. That was the vibes for the day. And then if we're flying that day. So we had loads of different copies of things. We needed the copy of the costumes with Pit points. And pit points are basically costumes made with holes where the joints can come through so that when I put my harness on, they can also hook me to the wires.

[Quincy]

Right? Yeah. Take us into defying gravity. You're shooting defying gravity today?

[Cynthia Erivo]

Some shooting defying gravity. We have a. First of all, because we're moving through so much, my dresses had to be fit often, so we needed a fit me, but we also needed space for my harness. There are, I think, two or three different harnesses for different stunts. The standard flying up and down easy is the. Is the most sort of, like, easygoing harness.

[Quincy]

And were you doing all your stunt work?

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yes.

[Quincy]

Okay.

[Cynthia Erivo]

And these. These harnesses I have. I still have my corset on. I still have my costume on, all of that. And then you put the harness on top of that.

[Kevin]

Right.

[Cynthia Erivo]

And those need to be pretty snug because you're. It's. You're flying. There's nothing, you know, flying, which I found deeply thrilling. But those days were really interesting because once you're in the harness, you don't want to come out of the harness because it takes forever to get everything prepped again and wires and whatnot. So those days can be really. They can be really big. They can be really exhausting because your body's being put through the strangest things.

[Quincy]

And you're holding your bladder while you're flying around.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I don't go to the bathroom once I'm in my costume. Once I'm in my costume, and this is probably a terrible idea, but once I'm in that costume and the harness is done, I'm not doing it. I'm just not playing. I'm not. I'm not dealing with it. I'm not dealing with it. There's too many layers. I'm not dealing with it. I'm not going to the bathroom. It is what it is.

[Quincy]

Okay.

[Cynthia Erivo]

If it's. Are we in the costume at 7am in the morning? 8am in the morning. Great. We'll be in it for the next 14, 12 hours. Good luck.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I'll see you there. I'm not doing it. I'm not. I'm not doing it. So that's what. That's what I would do. I would, like, figure it out. And that's what we're. That's. I'm not. And everyone would be like, do you need the bathroom? No, I don't need the bathroom.

[Kevin]

Let's go again.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I don't. Let's go.

[Kevin]

Yeah, let's go.

[Cynthia Erivo]

We're in it let's go. Let's go. And that's what would happen. And we. We would do these like. I loved flying, but it was. You would. The only time you would change the harness is when you would need to change into a different. Where you're doing a different stunt. And those days can just be really exhausting. Your body goes through a lot. Because what happens when you're flying is that if you have to do something, like there's a. There's a moment where I do that, like, loop comes around. That is not the wires doing the loop. The wires are taking me from a. To be right. I have to get my body over. So you're figuring out where to place the weight. And sometimes it goes horribly wrong. And the legs flop behind you and you're just like, I don't know how to do this. And you realize, oh, I have to put tension in my hips and my legs as I bring it round behind me in order to fly in straight. So you just have to learn, like, the aerodynamics of, like, where things go.

[Quincy]

I'm like, who else could have played this part? This could only be you.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yeah. Well, he decided that he wanted Defying Gravity to feel like a combination of all of the, like, iconic superhero moves that you've seen. So there's that one where I whip round across the screen and that's like Spider Man. And then there's the spin up, which is like Wonder Woman. And then there's the loop, which is like Superman. Like, all of those things he'd sort of like, put together. And that was like the. That was the nature of the beast, like figuring out how to do it, like all together and figuring out what the dynamics would be. And that was like a long shooting process because we started that piece, we started Defying gravity, maybe. I want to say we did it in May, April, and didn't finish until January this year because of the writers and actors strength.

[Kevin]

Right.

[Quincy]

Well, it is such a long sequence in the movie. It's very much built out.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yes.

[Quincy]

Which actually, how did that unlimited section. What was the thought process behind adding that into the song?

[Cynthia Erivo]

What was his thought process or my thought process into the song?

[Kevin]

Either.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I think he. He wanted a moment for Elphaba. He didn't want people to believe that Elphaba was going to do it immediately. He wanted people to root for her, like she. And I guess he wanted us to see. And I loved the idea of her having to figure it out. Like, this woman doesn't know how to fly yet. She doesn't Realize that she can. She has to take the leap. And when she takes the leap, she has no idea if it's going to end terribly or if she's going to indeed fly. So when. And we. And he wants to give. He wanted to give her a reason for finding her flight. And that reason is me, like, meeting her younger self and going and reaching out to her and going, I've got you.

[Quincy]

Each of the screenings I went to, people gasped during that younger child moment.

[Cynthia Erivo]

It just.

[Kevin]

Yeah, it takes the breath out of you.

[Cynthia Erivo]

That little girl, she's so sweet, so lovely. And I loved. I loved seeing her little face and just, like, the wonder in it. I remember when I first met her, I met her when I was in the makeup. She was so sort of. Oh, my gosh, you know, just enamored. And whenever we could have some time together, if I. If our paths crossed, which was not a lot, but we got a little time to be in the same space together. I remember we were shooting a scene where I. And she hadn't seen me fly yet, so. So I asked if she wanted to see me fly, and she was like, yeah, I want to see you fly. So they bring her in by the monitor, and it's just like a descent in. So this is one of those. I like the flight, the taking off and the descending, because it was, like, really nice. We found out, like, what the language was and, like, how does she land? And you'll see more of that that's coming.

[Quincy]

Did you get hurt at all through any of this?

[Cynthia Erivo]

Only chafing. And chafing sounds funny until you actually have it. I mean, like, my skin on my hips was burnt.

[Quincy]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Cynthia Erivo]

And it was like, it took so long to heal. It just took forever. You get bruised. You get, like. I think, well, maybe I did get hurt, and I just can't remember. Like, I'm sure, like, I definitely had a bl. A bleeding, like, a bloody nose at one point. Like, I don't know what happened. Can't tell you. Like, broken nails.

[Quincy]

Because even, like, landing on your knees.

[Cynthia Erivo]

And whatnot, I was fine with the landings and the fall. Like, I was totally fine. Flying was, like. That felt wonderful. You figure it out. And the only thing was what the harness does to you after a long period of time, because you are in it for hours and hours, and you are up, right?

[Kevin]

It's pulling on your skin.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Sometimes it's pulling outwards. So the tension is in a weird space, and you've got to figure out how to hold yourself. But otherwise Lovely. I. I really enjoyed what it felt like to fly. And Caris Charis came in one day, and they took her by the monitor because she wanted to see me fly. And I. As I'm flying in, I hear this little voice go, whoa. Oh. And I. I kid you not. You know when you have those moments of, oh, that's why I'm doing it.

[Quincy]

Yes, it is.

[Cynthia Erivo]

That was one of those moments of, like, that's why I'm doing it, because that little girl believes I'm flying. She. And she has seen me be taken up in these wires, and it doesn't matter. She believes I am flying. And on top of which, she knows that she's playing the little version of this, which is awesome.

[Quincy]

Okay, so hearing all that goes into playing Elphaba Ostraspillin.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yeah.

[Quincy]

What would you say was the most challenging aspect of it for you, personally?

[Cynthia Erivo]

I mean, it was all. It's all very challenging because it's because nothing. What I. I used to say to Ari, none of this nothing is a small day. Everything is a big day. Everything.

[Quincy]

None of what you just said sounds easy.

[Cynthia Erivo]

No day was like a small. Okay, we'll just. No day was that every day was like something. If it is it, I'm not that girl. Okay, that's a big day because it's like me on my own, and we're in forest, and it's like, right. All of these elements coming together, and, you know, is it the wizard and I? That's not a small day. It's like, what? And just because of the way he saw what this was to be, you'll notice that she starts at the bottom of the school and ends at the very top of a mountain. So he makes her ascend, literally, and then sprint, but she never flies. And then. Exactly. And then she's, like, on it, but she doesn't go over.

[Kevin]

Right.

[Cynthia Erivo]

She doesn't take the leap right up.

[Kevin]

To the precipice of it.

[Cynthia Erivo]

That's not a small day. None of it. I think it was sort of. I think maybe the hardest thing for me was to. To not look at everything as one big task, but to try to compartmentalize the moments that we were having to make, because they're all. They. They all mean something. They're all big moments, and they all require a lot of us emotionally. I mean, the answer was really hard emotionally. But then sitting down and talking about how her father hates her, and then looking in the mirror and being told that she's beautiful, like, that was an emotional moment. And Having to like, how do we. How do we vacillate so we don't tip so far into it that we can't come back, you know, because once we're. When we're in, we, like, where do we. How do we. How do we manage and measure how much she lets herself go and when, you know, because she's sort of like reverberating with like hurt and pain. It's like, it's. It's there. So she doesn't necessarily live in it because it's sort of like literally in her skin. Like it's on her. It's always like at the surface. So it's about how much do we give and how much do we hold. And it was. I think that was one of the things that I had to like, figure out and like her rhythm. She's not. She's not. She doesn't have the same rhythm as me. She doesn't sound like me, you know, so it's like managing what that is. She's a little drier, takes her time a little bit.

[Quincy]

You know, we've been talking about what we love so much about your take on the role is she's not angry at the world. Like, she accepts that this is how she's viewed and she's like made peace with that. She's not holding it against anyone. That's just. It is what it is.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yeah.

[Quincy]

I think that's like a really special twist.

[Cynthia Erivo]

But I think that came naturally because I believed that she's. For someone who's been in this. She's been in the skin forever. It is not a surprise to her when someone is like. That doesn't. Surprise. Does it hurt? Yes. Is it surprising? No. It's something she. It's. This is an everyday for her. So you can't be mad at the world if the world just is what it is, you know, it's something she's experienced her whole life. And I think that she's also experienced, you know, aspects like love, whether it be from Dulcibear or her sister. And she does love her sister and she does love Dulcibel. And I think to a degree she loves her father and wants love back. But. But if. I just thought if she's mad at the world the entire time, how does she. How would she function? How do you. How do you function past that? And. And also there has to be. You need room. We need. I want to get to rage. Because she does get to rage. But if we start there, we have nowhere to go. I want I wanted her to start with a little bit of hope. I want. I want whoever's watching to think, oh, there's hope. It might not go as bad as we. It might not go. It might not go bad. She might connect. There might be connection. And she does connect. Because if she was mad at the world, her and Fiera would not even. It wouldn't happen. They wouldn't cross paths. She wouldn't even give him the time of day. He wouldn't give her the time of day. They wouldn't. They wouldn't connect at all. And somehow they connect. And she can't be mad at the world if she cares deeply about these animals. There has to be love there. She has to have. She has to have an inkling of things can be better. And I can be. I can be a person who can make things better. I can be someone who. If from my experiences, if I know what it's like to be an outsider, maybe I can. Maybe you can change that for someone else. But you can't be mad at the world and do that. You can be frustrated. You can be moved by it. But if you're mad at it, if you're angry at it all the time, how can you get past that?

[Quincy]

Okay, we have to let you go, but there are a couple more things we want to touch on. Yeah. Talk about having Idina and Kristen on set because there is a really beautiful torch passing moment in the movie. What was the behind the scenes of that?

[Cynthia Erivo]

Oh, that was the most. It was silly o'clock in the morning and when that moment happens, it's like the sun was coming up and it was like, like, I think it was like 6, 7 o'clock in the morning and we'd been going all night. It was so emotional. We both were, like. We were all really emotional. To be in the space with these two women who essentially, this was like a love story to them as well to the work that they had put in all those years ago. And still they found the space and time to come back to this.

[Quincy]

I imagine being the two of them and then being on set of this major motion picture for this job they did 20 years ago.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Insane. Yeah, insane. I can't imagine what they were feeling, but I know that what we received from them was really loving and what I. What we've received from them since has been really, really caring and loving and kind. And I'm never gonna forget having Idina Menzel fix my hat and send me off in this film. I will never forget it because it is one of those. It. It was one of those moments where the. The architect says this, I built the building. Please.

[Quincy]

It's beautiful.

[Cynthia Erivo]

And she's been so. And I cannot. I cannot say enough how kind and loving she's been. The words that she has sent, the things she has said, the opportunities she has taken to buoy me, to encourage beyond. Beyond. She saw the film and the words that she sent my way, I like, I play them to myself often, let's put it that way, because they were so kind. And that moment, I. You have to know, I had no idea she was going to say that at the Tonys.

[Quincy]

Oh, really?

[Cynthia Erivo]

I had no idea. She just said she wanted to say something before we started that scripted thing. I said, you can say whatever you want. You say whatever you want, please. And then that's what she said, which is why when you look back, I look like a kid. I have no idea what to say. I like shoulder bump her and go, I love you.

[Quincy]

That's so cute.

[Cynthia Erivo]

That's all I can say. I had no idea she was going to say that. I had no idea. And it. And I. And she didn't have to. To. To hand off the broom, so to speak, in such a public way was like, whoa, this is like, now I have a responsibility to make you proud as well. Like, I really do actually want to make you proud. Like, seriously, I hope that. I hope that when you watch this, it makes you proud too. And that, that was. These moments have been really meaningful. And Kristen has been so lovely. I get like random video messages from her. Being so kind and sweet and loving. It's just like you. There's nothing else I can ask for. Like, these are the two.

[Quincy]

Yeah. And I'm so happy they're able to be a part of this movie.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Well, the two of us were not gonna have it any other way. Ari and I were really. This is. This is the thing that we were like, if we're gonna fight for anything, it's this. When are they coming? Yeah, when are they coming?

[Quincy]

Told us about you. Wizard will see you now. Line story calling Jobs. It's like, that's the united front.

[Cynthia Erivo]

That's it. What are we doing? Have we done it yet? Did we get them yet? Every day. So when are they coming in? Do we know what they're doing? Was it.

[Quincy]

They were going to have a cameo from the get go or did you have to push for that?

[Cynthia Erivo]

I think they were considering, but they then had no choice because we wouldn't let go.

[Quincy]

Gotcha.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Where are they coming? When Are they coming? Are they going to be here today or tomorrow?

[Kevin]

So wait, which came first? Them or that new section of One Short day? Like, did they come on board and then that was written for them?

[Cynthia Erivo]

I wonder.

[Quincy]

Feels like that must have been written for them.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I think it was written for them, but they hadn't cemented it. And we were like, cement it?

[Kevin]

Hollywood walk of fame. Cement it.

[Cynthia Erivo]

We need the pavement. The sidewalk needs to be set now.

[Quincy]

Oh, my goodness. All right, I think it's time to ask.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Yes.

[Quincy]

Are you a wizard and I. I love this question. Are you a wizard and I defying gravity or no good deed Alphabet. It can mean whatever you want it to mean. All we ask is that you explain why I.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Because I knew I'd be asked the question. And I'm gonna. And this isn't a cop out by any means, but it is because of the experience of this. And I'm all of them because the wizard and I is hope. Defying gravity is a proclamation of oneself and exceeding everyone else's expectations and your own. And no good deed is the ownership of your. Of your rage and pain. And I can be any one of those on any given day and have.

[Quincy]

Been and need to have all of those within you.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I need to have all of those within me. I'm not ashamed of hurt and anger and pain. It has taken a long time to get to where I am. And that feels many times like I've had to fly above the expectations of even myself. And the wizard and I is something that is a hope and a bright light that feels like I. It has to run through everything. You have to believe that anything is possible all the time. And if I didn't believe that anything was possible, isn't. If I didn't believe that anything is possible, I probably wouldn't be sitting here talking about this.

[Quincy]

That's beautiful. We had our money on you saying, I'm not that girl.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Well, here's the thing. I'm not that girl. I love that song so much because it. What I love about it is that it is. She knows that she's so different. And she might not ever be the girl that gets picked, but that's okay. And I love that because it's so true. Many times for me, it's really true. Often you're like, and I'm okay with being the one that isn't the one that gets picked all the time because.

[Kevin]

When I am picked, look what happens.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I'm meant to be.

[Quincy]

And what you do with that song in the movie is so singular and inspired. Really floored me.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Thank you.

[Quincy]

Okay, we're gonna wrap with a quick rapid fire about. You can answer with your castmates.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Okay.

[Kevin]

Okay.

[Quincy]

We're gonna take turns.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Okay.

[Quincy]

We did this with Ariana and it was.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Okay.

[Quincy]

Crazy.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Chaotic and crazy. Yes.

[Kevin]

All right. Most likely to be first to set.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Ariana.

[Quincy]

Most likely to be the last one to leave set.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Cynthia.

[Quincy]

Okay.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Or Ariana. Cause she liked to hang around. But it would be me often.

[Kevin]

Most likely to option up during a song.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Both of us.

[Quincy]

Most likely to take a keepsake from set.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Ariana.

[Kevin]

Most likely to stay in character after the camera stops rolling.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I think Ariana. But by default, me. I don't realize I'm still there, but.

[Quincy]

I am most likely to break character.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Ariana.

[Kevin]

That's interesting.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Or Bowen.

[Kevin]

Bowen would most likely to get the shot in one take.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Michelle. Yeoh.

[Quincy]

Okay. And the last one. Most likely to cry on set.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Both of us.

[Quincy]

Ariana did be like, is this a bit? The answer is me for every question.

[Cynthia Erivo]

We cried a lot. She cried immediately. And it would. I would be like, we have things to do. But then it would come. I would resist for a little bit and then it would all fall to pieces. And then what we supposed to do, you know, that set was we had tissues all over the place. It would be the first AD crying. John's crying. I'm crying.

[Quincy]

She did say you all were a little lost in the sauce in that kind of. Everyone was staying in camera.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Oh, my God. It was crazy. Jonathan. I finished singing I'm not that Girl. And Jonathan Bailey was crying. And I turn around, my first ad's cry. I'm like that. We're never going to get through this. We're not going to get through this. You understand? It's hard enough here to do this without falling apart. We're not going to get through this, guys. You understand?

[Quincy]

But how good.

[Cynthia Erivo]

We can't do this every day.

[Quincy]

That everyone cared so much about creating this.

[Cynthia Erivo]

We really did. I can't even listen. That us doing Defying Gravity. That scene where she says, you're trembling. Let me get something for you. A mess. The room, everyone a mess. A mess.

[Quincy]

Us two in the theater.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Like, how are we supposed to. I'm looking at you, you're looking at me. We're supposed to say goodbye at this point. It's just a mess. Yeah, a mess. Defying Gravity. The last moment before I fly up in the air. That was her last. Her last shot in the film.

[Quincy]

Oh, God.

[Cynthia Erivo]

So that was my, like, second to last shot. In the film. Good luck, everyone. Godspeed.

[Quincy]

Good luck.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Godspeed.

[Quincy]

Cynthia, thank you so much for joining us. My heart is so full after this conversation. This was amazing.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Thank you.

[Kevin]

Mine, too.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Thank you very much. This is wonderful.

[Kevin]

Thank you.

[Cynthia Erivo]

I'm so glad I got to do this with you.

[Quincy]

This is so exciting.

[Kevin]

I don't know about you, but I personally feel like the world could use a lot more kindness right now. Hi, it's Robert Peter Paul, your friendly neighborhood bpn, host of the Art of Kindness, a podcast that spotlights people in the arts who make the world, well, you guessed it, kinder. From icons like Carol Burnett to Tony winners like Stephanie J. Block to Olympians like Lori Hernandez, we've featured so many wonderful guests from all corners of the biz to give you intimate conversations and kindness tips. I'm thrilled to say we're returning for a fourth season this World Kindness Week with guests like Ian Armitage, Judith Light, Betty Hu, Corbin Blue, and more. So please join our kindness community over at VPN FM aok. And I do hope you're doing as a OK as you can. Let's build a kinder world.

[Cynthia Erivo]

Aww.

[Kevin]

Audio hug.