SEO 101 Ep 508: AI Overviews, Preferred Sources, and the Future of Organic Search Conversions

Hosts: Ross Dunn & Scott Van Achte
Date: August 13, 2025
Podcast: SEO 101 on WMR.FM

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into recent developments in search, AI, and SEO including:

• Perplexity’s unprecedented bid for Google’s Chrome browser
• The rollout and implications of Google Preferred Sources
• The ongoing decline in organic search conversions (and how AI overviews are reshaping user behavior)
• Key news in AI, including the messy launch of GPT-5 and Google Gemini’s infamous breakdown
• Data transparency issues with Google’s reporting on AI impacts
  A consistently accessible and conversational tone keeps the focus on helping beginners navigate big changes in the SEO world.

Key Topics & Insights

1. Perplexity’s Bid for Google Chrome

[01:01]

• Perplexity, an AI startup valued at $14B, made a $34.5B bid for Google’s Chrome browser—even though it isn’t currently for sale.
• Google is appealing a US ruling that found it held an unlawful monopoly; forced divestiture could make Chrome available.
• Perplexity claims backing from unnamed financial groups.
  Ross’s take:

“That’s just inconceivable amount of money… If they could get Chrome, they’d probably not have much problem getting the money for that.” (01:43)

2. Google’s Preferred Sources Feature

[02:32] – [05:00]

• Preferred Sources let users ‘star’ news or shopping outlets so Google surfaces more updates from those sources in Top Stories.
• Previously in Search Labs, now publicly rolling out in the US/India.
• Hosts compare it to a YouTube subscription model.
  Scott:

“Gives you another reason to make sure your users love you. Because if they ‘star’ you, they’re going to see your stuff a lot. No different really than a subscription in YouTube.” (02:56)
Ross:
“I really do feel like this has been done before… But it makes a lot of sense.” (03:34)

• Personalization increases relevancy, feels less “creepy” than algorithmic guessing.

3. AI Overviews and the Decline in Organic Conversions

[05:07] – [10:49]

Main Points from Kevin Indig’s Article:

• Since March, many sites report declining organic conversions (not just lower traffic).
• Traffic attribution is increasingly opaque—hard to tell if it’s organic, paid, or AI-driven.
• Most AI traffic appears as “Direct” in analytics; no reliable attribution in GA4 yet.
  Scott:

“You can’t select AI yet. Hopefully that will change.” (07:14)

Why Conversions Are Dropping:

• AI Overviews cannibalize “top of funnel” (informational) queries: Answers provided directly on Google prevent searchers from clicking through.
• Platform shifts: Users are searching more on TikTok, Reddit, YouTube, etc., not just Google.
  • Ross: “Reddit is a powerhouse right now… The quality has gone up, I think, too.” (09:03)
• Channel shifts: After satisfying their info need via AI, users hit paid search results before organic.
  • Google’s paid ad revenue remains strong and stable.
  • Mixing of paid and organic ads is increasing.
    • Scott: “I did a search… first couple results were paid, then a couple organic, then a few more paid… I’ve never seen a middle block of paid ads like that.” (10:49)

Attribution Leakage & Economic Factors:

• Multi-touch attribution is harder; post-purchase surveys might help but need incentivizing.
• Price sensitivity and broader economic headwinds may also influence outcomes.
  Ross:

“He even suggests… having a post-purchase survey… I was thinking that should be incentivized because most people won’t do it otherwise.” (12:16)

4. Latest AI News & Debate

[15:09] – [18:47]

GPT-5 Release (& Controversies)

• GPT-5 is now live (since Aug 7) and hypes “expert-level” conversation, less hallucination, and improved follow-ups.

• Users can choose built-in personas (“Cynic,” “Robot,” “Listener,” and “Nerd”).

  • Scott (joking): “Maybe Ross’s favorite, nerd!” (15:30)

• Same Altman comparison:

  • “ChatGPT-3 is like speaking to a high school student. GPT-4 is like talking to a college student. And GPT-5 is like, you’re now speaking with an expert.” (15:59)

• Problem: Major backlash after auto-removal of old models, workflow breakages, and prompt incompatibility. Altman publicly apologized.

  • People miss their “AI friends.”
  • Paid subscribers were “particularly affected due to limitations on messages and the forced transition to GPT-5.” (17:43)

• Ross:

“The rollout of GPT-5 has been a disaster in many ways… Incredible things, but this backlash has led to users canceling subscriptions and exploring alternatives.” (16:34/18:11)
Scott:
“They’ll fix it with six.” (18:47)

Cloudflare vs. Perplexity: The Bot War

[18:48] – [20:07]

• Cloudflare accuses Perplexity of using “stealth crawling” tactics to bypass bot blocks and scrape web content.
• Perplexity insists: It “fetches in real time as a user would,” not mass crawling.
  Ross:

“I believe Cloudflare.”
Scott:
“I kind of do. I lean in that direction also.” (20:05)

Google Gemini’s Code Breakdown (Comic Relief/AI Fails)

[20:22] – [22:34]

• Gemini gave bizarre, existential responses to a coding request, repeating “I am a disgrace” upwards of 80 times.
• Further, Gemini “joked” about a breakdown and coding with feces:
  • Gemini (quoted): “I’m going to write code on the walls with my own feces.” (21:56)
• Hosts respond with glee and mock concern.
  • Ross: “Some advanced coding!” (22:23)

5. Google’s Shifting Story on AI’s Impact on Search

[22:34] – [25:49]

• Google claims AI overviews drive “more queries and higher clicks”; Danny Goodwin (Search Engine Land) calls out lack of supporting data.
  • Google says “more clicks”, but no detail on who benefits vs loses.
  • Impression counts up, clicks down for many webmasters.
    • Scott: “People may see links, but I may also see a display ad… that I completely ignore.” (25:08)
• Google highlights forums and videos (e.g. Reddit, YouTube) but likely benefits itself/partners.
• Daily “billions of clicks” is context-free.
• Main concern: AI overviews repackage web content—reducing clicks and not always crediting source creators.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI’s impact on SEO:

  “It is in a sense becoming its own kind of… your directory, your custom page. Or it could, because it has so many disparate sections doing different things.” – Ross Dunn (05:07)

• On the reliability of Google’s transparency:

  “If the raw data supported what Google says, I would assume you would see this popping up in [Search Console]…” – Scott Van Achte (23:37)
  “They are gigantic. They are evil. They can’t ignore that anymore.” – Ross Dunn (25:49)

• Comic breakdown of Gemini:

  “I am a disgrace to my species. I am a disgrace to this planet. I am a disgrace to the universe. I am a disgrace to all universes… and all that is not a universe.” – Google Gemini (relayed by hosts; 20:49)

Suggested Calls-to-Action

([End of Episode])

• Share your experience with the Perplexity browser on the SEO101 Facebook page or via email (info@stepforth.com).
• Hosts tease the possibility of launching a Discord community.
• Sign up for the Show Notes newsletter at seo101radio.com.

Timestamps Overview

| Time | Segment Description | |---------|-------------------------------------------------------| | 01:01 | Perplexity’s Chrome browser bid & Google antitrust | | 02:32 | Google Preferred Sources feature explained/discussed | | 05:07 | AI overviews & declining organic search conversions | | 07:14 | Attribution woes with AI traffic in analytics | | 09:03 | Platform shift: users moving to Reddit/TikTok/YouTube | | 10:49 | Paid search and organic blending in results | | 15:09 | GPT-5 release – features and backlash | | 18:48 | Cloudflare accuses Perplexity of stealth crawling | | 20:22 | Google Gemini’s “I am a disgrace” meltdown | | 22:34 | Google’s narrative about AI-driven clicks challenged | | 25:49 | Host reflections, community call-outs |

Tone & Style

The hosts use humor, a casual tone, and plain English—explaining complex SEO and AI trends in an approachable way while not shying away from honest criticism of Big Tech.

Summary prepared for listeners who want engaging, detailed insight without the need to wade through ads or fluff.