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- [00:01]
Marketing Representative
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Shipstation Representative
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- [01:20]
Talkspace Representative
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- [02:33]
Ross Dunt
Hello and welcome to SEO 101 on WMR FM episode number 487. This is Ross Dunt, CEO of Stepforth Web Marketing and my co host is my company Senior SEO Scott Vanac. All right, well we're going to jump into some non SEO news. First, Perplexity, which is one of those very handy AI tools out there, has launched AI powered shopping search. Now this is some, just some write up here I put together. Perplexity is making its entry into the E commerce sector by launching a new shopping feature specifically for its US paid subscribers. So again, subscribers, this initiative poses a challenge to major tech giants like Google and Amazon in the realms of search and shopping. Now this includes several new features. Visual product cards that provide detailed information, a convenient one click checkout option, an innovative merchant program designed to transform online shopping experiences. That sounds like fluff, but we'll see I guess how that pans out. This is how it works. Essentially, product search results will now display visual cards that include pricing, seller information and pros and cons. Users can search for products using either text or images. There's a one click checkout available with saved payment and shipping details. Pro subscribers will enjoy free shipping. Oh, I guess there's a pro subscriber and a subscriber.
- [04:02]
Scott Vanac
I guess.
- [04:03]
Ross Dunt
I didn't realize that the platform offers unbiased recommendations without any sponsored listing. Now unbiased is in air quotes for good reason because it's AI. Yeah, it's learning from what it can find online and that's hardly unbiased. So I don't know whether I'd really trust it that much. But it's the first of many steps towards the ubiquitous AI shopping experience we're all going to experience someday. So much coming, it's just too much to even describe. It's pretty cool. All right, now into SEO news. Google Analytics data delayed or missing for some. So what's this all about, Scott?
- [04:45]
Scott Vanac
Yeah, so this is, this is always fun. There's always a bug to report on. So a lot of people have been reporting that Google Analytics is missing some partial Data starting on November 13th. So if you are seeing anything weird looking missing data, whatever, it's quite likely related to that in your GA4 account. On the 18th in the Google Ads status dashboard, Google confirmed the problem. Problem. They said they're investigating reports with Google Analytics and an issue affecting the generation of standard reporting tables. So they knew about it? Well eventually it took a while. As of today they actually made an update, posted an update that the report, the problem has been resolved. So you may see some issues with traffic being incorrect for about a week between the 13th and the 20th. So if you do see that, don't stress too much. I'm. It's not totally clear on if the fix is backfilled for that period of time. So if there, if you saw a big drop for that week, I don't know if that traffic will be restored or you just will always see a hole there at this point. But at least from now on it's fixed, so.
- [05:55]
Ross Dunt
And the good news for any advanced people out there is that any kind of exports using the Explore module or BigQuery exports are totally unaffected. But obviously that's hell, that's even more than what I do. We don't even do that stuff. So pretty advanced stuff. But it is good to know that the raw data is clean, no issues there. And what's next here? Google page level and site wide signals both matter for rankings. So we debated even putting this in because to us it is very. No duh. However, we understand that this is the kind of thing that we need to revisit sometimes. So verbatim from this article on Search Engine Journal says Google's ranking systems evaluate content primarily at the page level. But site wide signals also matter. Good site wide signals bad won't guarantee high ranking for all pages and poor site wide signals won't doom all pages. This documentation update at Google clarifies existing practices rather than introducing new ranking factors. So what is this? You know, what is a site wide factor? Scott, what do you, what do you think? What would be the simplest way to. To what's the simplest one to describe?
- [07:07]
Scott Vanac
I would just say navigation, your main navigation of their site because that follows typically all pages of your site. The main nav is the same. So you know, you could look at that, you could look at authority, although authority would be a lot of page specific stuff. But you know, that could go either way really. I don't know why my brain is broken and I can't think of anything else.
- [07:29]
Ross Dunt
No, no, that's. That navigation's huge.
- [07:31]
Scott Vanac
Yeah, it is.
- [07:32]
Ross Dunt
The other one would be the design, the overall design too. User experience and stuff.
- [07:38]
Scott Vanac
Yeah, user experience, even speed might be a bit there. I mean really a lot of it comes down to individual pages for the most part. But yeah, it's. I think people might forget that sometimes, you know, if I've got other crap over here in the corner that can affect the whole site. If you've got a lot of it, like let's say you've got a 100 page site and 90 pages are thin, terrible bad content. Well that, you know, it suddenly becomes a Site wide problem, it's going to affect your other content but if you have like one bad page, it's not going to take down the whole site.
- [08:08]
Ross Dunt
So yeah, and we're also talking about technology. You know, how it's what you've used to build the site, how search friendly it is, how mobile friendly it is. There is quite a few and we could, if we thought about this and made a list we'd have quite an extensive list. But right off the cuff that's a good few ones that we've got there for you to just chew on. Anyway, page level is what we mostly talk about. So fair enough. This. It is good to be reminded that site wide signals both matter for rankings as well as well. I mean. Okay. Google is strengthening its policy against site reputation abuse. This is was bound to happen. We've heard about people putting their own pages on places like Forbes.com and, and borrowing the authority that the site has. I'm not sure Forbes was on, but I think it was anyways. There were some sites that were. That had huge authority and people were able to put their own content on them and they were just winning in spades. They were doing so well because they were borrowing the authority. Well, Google doesn't like that. So they've said site reputation abuse is the practice of publishing third party pages on a site in an attempt to abuse search rankings by taking advantage of the host site's ranking signals, unquote. The updated policy now includes third party content that has first party involvement or content oversight. So that. Does that mean that it's seems weird to me. Does that mean that it's only a problem if Forbes knew about it? I'm just using them as an example. But that doesn't make any sense.
- [09:45]
Scott Vanac
I think what they've done is they've just expanded it. Chris Nelson, Google Search Quality Team had said we're making it clear that using third party content on a site in an attempt to exploit the site's ranking signals is a violation of this policy. So they started this update what in May, I think, think. And now they basically expanded it to cover all their bases. I think, you know, depending. It doesn't matter where that third party content is coming from or who's involved in publishing it now. It's just like it's bad. Don't, don't do that. In this, in this scenario that is in trouble.
- [10:19]
Ross Dunt
The offenders included CNN and USA Today. I know there's a lot of other ones but those.
- [10:25]
Scott Vanac
Yeah, Forbes was. Yeah, yeah.
- [10:26]
Ross Dunt
And Forbes I think was there Matt Southern notes that any sites that have been penalized if they remove the offending content or implement no index tags on the affected sections have started seeing their manual actions lifted. That was fast. So that's good. Good to see.
- [10:45]
Scott Vanac
You know, it's nice when Google makes a change. People get penalized for whatever reason and you can recover from it, unlike these pesky core updates. And you know, if you, if you get burned, you're just, you're forever burned, even if you've done nothing wrong.
- [10:58]
Ross Dunt
In fact, you've done but good things for Google that don't get me going again.
- [11:05]
Scott Vanac
Okay, I won't.
- [11:07]
Ross Dunt
All right, let's take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to talk about AI.
- [11:12]
Carvana Representative
SEO101 will be back right after recess.
- [11:18]
Ross Dunt
Welcome back to SEO101 on WMR FM, hosted by myself, Ross Dunt, CEO of Step 4 Forth Web Marketing, and my company, Senior SEO Scott Vanac. Okay, so Google is. They've sort of snuck in a little search experiment called Learn About. This is from an article on Search Engine Journal by our, one of our favorite writers, Roger Monti. This is the gist of it. Google's launched a new AI search experiment called Learn about which offers a unique approach to exploring topics. It uses utilizes interactive lists to summarize content and guide users through related subtopics. The interface encourages exploration by providing additional summaries and links to human generated content, reminiscent of a choose your own adventure format. The initiative is part of their learning initiative let's Use initiative more times. Aimed at creating innovative learning tools. It's currently available to users 18 and older in the US and supports both English queries and Spanish content. Though it primarily operates operates in English. Before we expound on this, privacy controls are also included. And this is really important. There's a warning to not ask questions of any personal or private nature because it may be that this information is accessed by human reviewers. So do keep that in mind. Now, the reason, you know, 18 and older, I guess, is because of the privacy thing. It sounds like it's okay. I don't know. I mean, again, they're testing out what formats of AI are going to be of interest to people. The one thing that Roger had mentioned in his article, and this is definitely a flag, is you have to go down quite a few steps in this. Choose your quote, choose your own adventure format until you see any links to content off of Google. So they love it. They would really love it. Anyway, we'll see. We don't see it yet. Here In Canada and I imagine it's quite limited even in the States, but it is. Showing up in the wild could be.
- [13:35]
Scott Vanac
An interesting tool to play with. But yeah, we don't have that luxury just yet.
- [13:40]
Ross Dunt
Yes, I'm not in a rush. I'm sure AI is going to be here fast enough.
- [13:44]
Scott Vanac
And always I love choose your own adventure. I read those all the time in the 80s, I guess.
- [13:50]
Ross Dunt
Me too. Not a lot, but when I did they were pretty cool. They were short though because they had to have a lot of options and the book could be only so big. Anyway, next up is Google. AI overviews has massively surged in travel queries now. What's this? Sol?
- [14:10]
Scott Vanac
Yeah, so just a. A brief little update on some stuff happening over at AI overviews. So some findings from Bright Edge reported that AI overviews are now showing for about 30% of all travel related queries, which is, you know, pretty significant really. Google is now answering more specific travel questions such as things to do in Seattle, family friendly adventures or activities. So I guess adventures would work as well in Los Angeles. Things like. Of that nature where we weren't really seeing those before, we are now. And overall the presence of AI overviews is up about 700% between September and October. So you know, if you, if you thought AI overviews was going away, it's definitely here to stay. Despite a lot of hilarious incorrect advice, it still gives. But I feel like it's probably getting better. I haven't seen a lot of stories about bad stuff or incorrect stuff lately. But you know, if I'm sure we could do a whole show on the incorrect AI overviews content if we dug a little bit. But anyways, yeah, if you are a travel oriented business, you definitely want to keep an eye on this and see if it's affecting you or not. But potentially pretty cool.
- [15:23]
Ross Dunt
Yeah. And we could revisit one thing and that is how do you even get considered to show up in those results? Being indexed by Google is number one. Obviously you want Google to know about you and they. And having a decent ranking is a very good idea as well. It shows that you've got authority but also having the proper schema. And we talked about that before. It gets a little bit SEO200 level. But you know, adding the right schema is really important. Schema markup is what it's called. What's the other simpler way to put it? Is there restructure? Structured markup, I guess.
- [16:00]
Scott Vanac
Structured markup. Yeah.
- [16:03]
Ross Dunt
Yeah.
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Scott Vanac
But yeah, the simplest is using what's J called JSON LD JSON plus ld, I think or minus ld. I don't know Dash. I get it wrong all the time. I don't know why that's the simplest formatting. There are other ways to format structured markup, but if you're new, that's the one you want to use. It's the easiest human read human to read code and just use AI. Tell AI hey, I want the structured markup for this page. This is the data I want marked up and it'll spit out the code for you almost always perfectly, but not always nice.
- [16:34]
Ross Dunt
Yeah. So you want that in there. That helps Google. What it does is helps any search engine, any crawler, any bot understand better what the content is on the page with more certainty. It's not having to guess, it's being told. This is what this means. And that does help. And it's very likely to increase your ability to be found in AI. Of course, everything's in a black box these days, but that's what we understand and what we've been this time of year.
- [17:03]
American Giant Representative
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- [17:32]
Scott Vanac
Yeah, sure thing. Hey, you sold that car yet?
- [17:36]
Carvana Representative
Yeah, sold it to Carvana.
- [17:38]
Scott Vanac
Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.
- [17:40]
Carvana Representative
The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest over 36 months.
- [17:46]
Scott Vanac
Yeah, no.
- [17:47]
Carvana Representative
Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient.
- [17:53]
Scott Vanac
Just like that. Yeah. No hassle? None. That is super convenient.
- [17:57]
Ross Dunt
Sell your car to Carvana and swap Hassle for convenience. Pickup fees may apply.
- [18:02]
Indeed Representative
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- [19:03]
Ross Dunt
Okay, Google AI overviews again have are oh, these are. Sorry, ads are seen more on mobile search. Is this more or just actually being showing up?
- [19:16]
Scott Vanac
This is. This is new. As of October they started showing ads or testing ads in AI overviews on mobile only. But only in the past week are people starting to report seeing these ads. So it's very new. Only in the US and only on mobile they who was it? Search engine? I'm sorry, I can't remember who wrote this article. I didn't make a mental note of it. But they did report that availability still may be in the testing phase. Not all users are seeing them, but it's begun more ads in AI overviews, not more some and that's just going to grow.
- [19:51]
Ross Dunt
Interesting. Okay.
- [19:53]
Scott Vanac
And there's also Google is also not saying how to get your ads in there yet. So I don't know at this point if you're running a Google Ads account, if by default they'll just start appearing there if it's an option that you have to select. I really don't know. It's just too new and Google's for whatever reason not telling us, so they.
- [20:10]
Ross Dunt
Must be giving them kind of as freebies just to test it out.
- [20:13]
Scott Vanac
Yeah, that would make sense actually.
- [20:17]
Ross Dunt
All right, this article is on Search Engine Roundtable set title is chat GPT search marketing share versus google Rand Fishkin of SparkToros posted his assumptions based on a mix of data from similar web and datos about current market share. These figures are assuming that every large language model prompt is a quote search. That's a pretty big assumption, but fair enough it is. This includes only desktop and mobile and excludes app traffic. Based on his supposition, I guess. Google is 83.54%, YouTube is 6.79%, ChatGPT is 4.33%, Facebook is which includes LinkedIn, Reddit, Pinterest and Perplexity. Com. Oh I see. Facebook X LinkedIn, Reddit, Pinterest, perplexity combined is 3.37% and runner up is Bing at 1.97%. I'm shocked. I thought Bing was well, is this only in the us?
- [21:20]
Scott Vanac
You know it didn't say it probably I would assume so because otherwise you would get other places and they're like Baidu and, and what have you.
- [21:28]
Ross Dunt
Which would have, yeah, probably if it was global, because I thought there was at least a market where they're in the 5% range, but maybe not. I mean, I'm probably back 10, 10 years or something.
- [21:43]
Scott Vanac
This is also a bit of a, a mashup that Rand has created based on data from multiple sources. So, you know, it's skewed. What I found interesting about it is chat GPT being, at least in his view, pushing 5% and at the rate it's growing, I did read somewhere else that they were saying if ChatGPT and search GPT grows at the same rate, it's been growing consistently for four years, it will beat Google. Now, I don' expect that to happen. I'm going to be honest, I don't. But theoretically it's going to be a major, major contender with Google in the very near future. So which I got to say, I like, I, I want, I want Google. Like right now we focus so heavily on Google and every now and then you get this situation where a site just doesn't want to rank on Google for whatever reason. And if you have 50% Google, 50% chat GPT just, you know, whatever, throw numbers out there, suddenly Google doesn't matter as much. You know, it's, I miss the early days when it was like 5% Lycos, 5% AltaVista 5. Everything was like you had five different search or 100 different search engines all sharing equal market share practically. Yeah, the diversity was awesome. And now it's. You're really stuck with, with Google dominating and maybe, maybe this will be what we need to give them a run for the money.
- [22:57]
Ross Dunt
Lately it's kind of my silly high school thoughts. I think of like Google being the bully that finally we really, really want someone to kick them in the nads and search GPT, please do it. Wouldn't that be great?
- [23:16]
Scott Vanac
Yeah, it would be awesome. I love it.
- [23:18]
Ross Dunt
Yeah, let's see someone get in there. And I think, well, where SEO is going, I see no doubt about this. At least a portion of our job will be to understand how AI agents, which we're all going to have, and this is a whole nother topic, but even I don't know everything, even though I'd be reading about it, I don't really understand everything about it. But we're all going to have our own agents that will do work for us in terms of research, whatever, and these agents will be looking at content on your site. And part of our SEO will be to ensure that this version of structured markup is clear. And one of my friends is actually wanting me to test a system he's created that already takes the content on your site and puts it into a very digestible format specifically for agents only. I'm a little skeptical because it's so early, but he's a brilliant person, so we'll see. Anyway, yeah, not sure what's going to happen there, but it's. It's pretty exciting. There's lots of stuff going on and it's always interesting to see what's. What's. What's coming up next. On that note, actually, there's. I'm always trying out new AI prompts and I wanted to share one I found the other day. I am sorry I can't provide the referral where I saw this, but it's called answer leveling. I'm sure you could hunt it down and who did this, but the idea is first you ask something of chat, GBT or whatever you're using. Put in whatever information you want, any of the backstory you want, anything, such as the voice you want it to speak in. All of that stuff, you know, there's no reason you can't include the best prompt possible in prompt number one. Once you get a response, then in you follow it up with, okay, that's a level one answer. Can you give me a level two version that goes deeper? Once the AI are using, does that say, now give me a Level 3 response? The most advanced strategies you can think of. Strategies being that this was a marketing tip or whatever it might be this. You'd adapt this as you needed, but give us the most advanced result you can think of. Let's put it that way. And I've only tested this once, but the results were far better. So. And it makes sense because I don't know why, but I guess the systems are inclined to provide a simple result. The first time, and I have seen that. I've often gone, is this correct? Sometimes. Is this correct? Well, actually, I'm glad you asked. It'll say no, it wasn't quite correct. You're like, what?
- [26:11]
Scott Vanac
I hate that. I've seen that a few times now. I'm like, are you sure that's right? No, actually, it's wrong. Well, why did you tell me? Stupid.
- [26:18]
Ross Dunt
Yeah, it's like, what the hell? You really can't take anything for granted. So, yeah, ask again and say, could you please put a little more depth into this? And then they do, and then I often do ask. I sometimes I'll just go out and write out and say, are you lying? In the sense that I'm like, did you. What's the word for it? Darn it. They're using it all the time. Did you hallucinate any of this? I'm literally asking. And it knows what that means. Well, no, this is all based on this and this and this. I'm like, okay, UC Price gives us sources.
- [26:56]
Scott Vanac
I have a question for you. Like I've done this sort of thing before where, like you said, you get this content that spits out and you ask it to refine it or change it or make it more advanced. You mentioned level one, level two, Level three is that. That if you know, is that language that it just uses to understand that you want a level 2 is a better, more advanced level or it just picks up on it. It's not something built into the AI as like a built in.
- [27:21]
Ross Dunt
No, because you're telling it that that was a level one answer. Now give me a level two version so it understands what you're referring to at that point. Cool. Yeah. Now that's with the example of ChatGPT, maybe the other ones wouldn't. I've heard many, many mixed reviews about Gemini. Not many people love it. No one I know. Honestly, I think one person has said they kind of liked it, but that's it. Search GPT and I haven't used yet, but ChatGPT alone is just fan fantastic. I've got a ton of these. In fact, I'm trying them. I've subscribed to a newsletter that gives me tips on this stuff all the time and it's a little bit addictive. There's too many cool ways of doing this kind of research. One of my favorite tools now I'll share. I think it's a groundbreaker is called ODIN AI. I think that's if you just type that in. I'm just going to double check. ODIN AI. Yeah. If you create an account there, you can put in all your own documents. You can have it only index certain pages or index certain websites and you can create your own database. Slash. Well, I guess technically it's a database, but think of it as your own crawled index about only one specific type of information. And then you can ask using ChatGPT, using the API, questions of that content only. And what I've been doing is, and this is a golden tip here, I've been doing this for different clients. I've been creating different crawls for different clients and using that information to create content. Not sure I Should have shared that, honestly. But anyway, it's.
- [29:08]
Scott Vanac
He lied. He doesn't do that.
- [29:09]
Ross Dunt
Yeah, yeah, it's really cool. And frankly, there's stuff about content about clients I don't know, even though we work with them a long time. And I'm like, really? Is this true? And then I'll see this included sources. Wow. I didn't know they did that. And that gives me another idea for content. So there you go. If you listen to the end of the show, you've got some fantastic. Honestly, that is a great tip. I think that's probably one of the future tools or at least formula for creating great content. And honestly, just doing any kind of research because you can create your own data sets on anything. You could have it read books and just have all the information about what you know about one thing and ask it questions whenever you want. I mean, it's insane. It's so cool. I literally have my own little Googles that I can create. Nothing like is that big, but it's. It's very useful.
- [30:07]
Scott Vanac
I. I have one little request I want to put out there to some listeners to see if you've experienced what I'm about to talk about. Contact us, let me know because I'm curious. I have a client that emailed me right before we started recording the show. So I haven't even researched this yet. They have a Japanese version of their website and so we don't actually work on that. They have other people for their Japanese site, but what they found. The client sent me a thing saying that if you search in Google for a completely other website, I'd like. It'd be way easier if I could just give you their names. But I haven't talked to the client to be like, can I talk about this? So I'm trying to keep it anonymous. If you search for this completely other website that's not even in their industry, totally unrelated, but their name is similar. They're finding that our client's phone number is appearing in the search result for the alternate websites listing. So they're getting support calls for a company that's not even them because their phone number's being listed in the SERPs under the wrong website, but just in the organic. It's not even like in local or anything weird like that. And so they. He's asked me to investigate and see if there's anything I can do or if I know anything. And I don't know yet because I haven't even dug into it. But I'd be curious if anyone out There has had something similar happen and if you have, I'd love to hear about it. And maybe there's something there. Maybe this is a one off, I don't know. But very weird.
- [31:26]
Ross Dunt
Fascinating. I. It's just amazing how much search can screw with companies and really that could be devastating if it became overwhelming.
- [31:38]
Scott Vanac
You know what I. And it could be. And I'll tell you after Ross and then you'll, you'll see what I mean. I actually had something similar happen to me with a personal website that I used to have that I actually just shut down last month. But it was a, it was Comox Valley Guide. It was like a website about the local area I live in. And it was starting right when local was kind of brand new and Google, it wasn't Google. My business, I don't even know what it was called when it started anymore. They've changed names 400 times. But I had a listing in there with my personal phone number and people were phoning me for BC Hydro. They were phoning me to book haircuts, they were phoning me to reserve cars, they were phoning me to check pool schedules. I was getting. My phone was ringing off the hook because for whatever reason Google was putting my home number and associating it with a ton of local businesses because I had just, I talked about those businesses on my site and so it just assumed because some of these places didn't even have web presences because we're talking, I think it was 2006. So you know, Google local type stuff might have even been 08. I don't know. It doesn't matter. The point is it was really screwing with me and I had to remove my phone number from my own listing so that it wouldn't be associated with a million other businesses. So. But I haven't seen anything like that until today. So I'm wondering if it's going to be a big problem or if it's just a one off fluke.
- [32:52]
Ross Dunt
Let's hope. All right.
- [32:54]
Scott Vanac
Well it'll be fun though.
- [32:55]
Ross Dunt
Yeah. On behalf of myself, Ross Dunn, CEO of Stepforth Web Marketing and my company Senior SEO Scott Van Ak, thank you for joining us today. Have a great week and remember to tune into future episodes which air every week on WMR fm.
- [33:09]
Scott Vanac
Thank you for listening everybody.
- [33:41]
Marketing Representative
Are you tired of juggling contacts manually following up and deals falling through the cracks? We can fix it so you never lose another lead. Enabling 24. 7 sales and support via an AI that learns your business ready to close more deals with less hassle Get a free trial of our Marketing automation@thebuzzcrm.com Work.
- [34:04]
Stamps.com Representative
Takes up most of your time. That's why you should use stamps.com to save time with your mailing and shipping and have flexibility to focus on more important things. Stamps.com can handle all your mailing and shipping needs with rates up to 88% off. USPS and and UPS add flexibility to your day with stamps.com go to stamps.com program to sign up for a special offer. No contract. Cancel Anytime. That's stamps.com program.
- [34:34]
Carvana Representative
At Verizon, anyone can trade in their old phone for a new one on us with unlimited ultimate, which means everyone in your family could get a new phone and stay on your family plan.
- [34:43]
Ross Dunt
Keeping you close hey mom, you seen my toothbrush?
- [34:48]
Scott Vanac
Yeah, I'm almost done with it.
- [34:52]
Carvana Representative
Maybe too close. Trade in and additional terms apply. See verizon.com for details.