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- [00:00]
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- [00:30]
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- [01:35]
Ross Dunn
Hello and welcome to SEO 101 on WMR FM episode number 490. This is Ross Dunn, CEO of Step 4th Web Marketing, and my co host is my company senior SEO Scott Vanack. All right, man, it is almost the end of the year and I guess everyone who's listening, it will be the New Year. So Happy New Year.
- [01:55]
Scott Vanack
I hope it hope it was great.
- [01:57]
Ross Dunn
Yes, yes. And you know, it goes so fast. It might as well be that that fast. Tomorrow it'll feel like the end, really. Anyway, it's just crazy how fast it comes. But today we're going to talk about, you know, our standard fare of news. But then we'll get into some of our predictions for 2025, which is always fun and interesting and I don't think we've actually looked back at our one before. Maybe we can do that in our next episode and see if how close we got, right?
- [02:26]
Scott Vanack
I'd be scared to discover how wrong I am.
- [02:28]
Ross Dunn
Yeah, well, you know what? We're always learning, right? Okay, well, let's start with the SEO news. Bing has officially removed the cache link from search results. This is on December 11th. They removed the cache link then. And Google removed their cache link back in February. What does this mean? It was a valuable tool for us. I really liked looking at a cache. It sometimes gave a different perspective on the website, what changes they've made. It was great for competitor analysis. What other uses would you have for it? Scott?
- [03:02]
Scott Vanack
Yeah, I hadn't done this in a long time, but I remember back in the early days it was something we checked all the time. Check the cache and the text version of that cache for a page in Google so you could really see at least then what Google saw. And at the time, like we're talking early 2000s, it was a good representation of how your site appeared in Google's eyes. Of course that's changed a lot over the years and obviously I haven't tried to do that in a long time and we haven't been able to for a long time now.
- [03:31]
Ross Dunn
But I would have not early 2000s, I'd say 2015 still. We would, we'd be doing that, wouldn't we?
- [03:36]
Scott Vanack
Yeah. Oh, I don't know. Maybe. Maybe ever since COVID time doesn't matter to me anymore, I can't keep track of anything. So maybe it was that recent. But even that's nine years ago, so.
- [03:47]
Ross Dunn
Yeah, but still. Yeah, way different than 20, the early 2000s. Like that's mind blowing how long ago that was.
- [03:54]
Scott Vanack
We also used to like if I was, if I was doing an audit or things like that, checking the Google's cache text version was often a good way to find hidden text and, and spammy features, things like that, if links weren't actually linked. Especially because for the longest time, even now Google still has a bit of trouble with JavaScript. But even then, like if you weren't sure if Google could see your JavaScript links or maybe you had, you're doing something crazy with frames. Thank God those days are over. I. I don't miss frames at all or Flash even. But you. It was really useful then to get a clue but just not necessary anymore.
- [04:31]
Ross Dunn
I believe you can still get it though. Let me just see here. I'm going to try it. If you click on the dash dash on the right or sorry the sort of hamburger menu next to a URL and search results. Except it's. They're dots sometimes. Let's see. Oh no. Unable to view Cache fusion version of URL. And this one I picked, of course. Let me try another one.
- [04:53]
Scott Vanack
I think you might be able to do view dash cache colon. Is that how it worked?
- [05:02]
Ross Dunn
I know there's a way to do it. At least there was. I just haven't done. Again, I like you, I haven't done in ages.
- [05:10]
Scott Vanack
Yeah, because actually, now that you mentioned that, I believe Google did remove the link. But you were still able to do it.
- [05:15]
Ross Dunn
Yeah, you're still able to do it. There was a hack for it, or at least a way to do it by, I thought, clicking on that menu. Anyway, if we figure it out, we'll let you know in the next episode. Or heck, you probably already know and we don't.
- [05:26]
Scott Vanack
I think I just figured it out. Okay, we're just gonna see. Does this work? Oh, it didn't work. Never mind. Didn't figure it out.
- [05:33]
Ross Dunn
Dang it.
- [05:33]
Scott Vanack
It used to be if you just type cache colon URL, it would appear the one I just tried did not work. I just get no results. So maybe that's completely dead now as well.
- [05:44]
Ross Dunn
It is immensely useful for troubleshooting too. Like, what happened? Why did this? Why is that blank? What happened? I love that kind of stuff. All right, well, this is your thing. Every time we have a show, you talk about the next update.
- [05:59]
Scott Vanack
Does this have to be my thing? Why is this my thing? Nobody likes these things. Nobody's going to like me anymore. Yeah. Guess what? We finished up the November core update. That was great. It ended on December 5, after over three weeks. And then December. Oh, what day did this start? Like five days later. The December core update rolls out the fourth one of the year. Isn't that great? Right before Christmas. So there are a lot of people saying that this one is big. Barry Swartz says it's big and all uppercase. Lots of people complaining, but I try not to pay too much attention to people complaining about dropped rankings in a corp date because there's always going to be that. You're going to have winners and you're going to have losers in every update, no matter what. This one looks like it might be a bit more widespread. We'll see what happens. Google says it will last two weeks, but the last one was 24 days, so who really knows? I don't really trust Google when they say how long these will last. And this is the the insight from Google on this core update. Typical. If you're wondering why there's a core update this month, after one last month, we have a different core systems we have different core systems that we're always improving. That's it. Which it's kind of a non answer but that's, that's what we got. That's, that's it.
- [07:12]
Ross Dunn
So yeah, in our predictions coming up, I was thinking about saying that something's going to happen to these updates. Like they're not going to give us any information but really they're not giving us any information anyway. So that's true. I truly, I'm at the point now where I really not sure they know everything that's going into these updates anymore.
- [07:33]
Scott Vanack
Or they going to be secretive.
- [07:35]
Ross Dunn
It's just so automated or so AI based, you know, how much can they see? But I don't know, I'm no computer scientists. It could be I'm way off the mark there. All right, Chat GPT Search, which is Search GPT is now available to all free users. So for the longest time, well longest time being a couple months since they launched, you could only access it if you logged in. You do get extra features by doing that. I understand. I'm not sure exactly what those were but just the same you do get it a little better when you have a login. But this is good. So you still have to log in though and have. Even if, even if you are God, I can't speak. So if you're paying for it, you get extra features. If you don't pay for it, you still can use it, but you won't get those extra features. The thing is you do have to have an account. Yes. Simpler.
- [08:28]
Scott Vanack
Correct. I did a couple quick searches to test it because now I can, which is cool. Like I can finally test it. And I found one test which was very useful. So I live in the Comox Valley. I did a search what makes a Comox Valley great and the results were awesome. It gave me a bunch of images, a bunch of content, a whole bunch of citations with usable good local links where I live. It was actually great and I could see a lot of people just stopping there, you know, with AI and you know, the people in the citations are listed and that's great but you maybe don't need to click them because they gave me enough information. And then I did a second test and I searched for Victoria Hotels. This was not very useful. So it gave me the typical local map that you'd see in Google. It didn't look as good as it does in Google but you know, they'll get there. It gave me pins for three hotels. Now I don't go to Victoria often. A couple times a year. I think there are more than three hotels in Google. The map was really zoomed out. They showed three downtown hotels. So that was it. Almost no content. And then a list of citations that were primarily the big things like TripAdvisor and Expedia and all those big guys, not necessarily a bunch of results from actual hotels in Victoria.
- [09:45]
Ross Dunn
Did they get it right? I mean, there's a bunch of Victoria's. Did they get that right in terms of your location? Okay, yeah, it was. Victoria is much different than Victoria Melbourne.
- [09:54]
Scott Vanack
It was definitely bc. I think I would have noticed maybe. No, it was. It was for sure. It was for sure.
- [10:00]
Ross Dunn
Okay.
- [10:02]
Scott Vanack
So, you know, personally, I think if you're looking for specific products or services, it may be less useful, but if you're just looking for information, researching on a topic, you know, my preliminary results are. I kind of like it. It's. It's good.
- [10:15]
Ross Dunn
Yeah. And that's as of today. By the time people listen to this, it could be entirely different because it's a very fast moving target. Yes. It's going to be very interesting to see how it works and I'm going to play around with it a bit over the holidays, I think. Of course, I always say that, I never do, but I'm going to try it. I can't fish necessarily, so I'll be working on the boat a bit and reading up on all the things that are happening and finally working on playing around with some of these tools. All right. Google is testing a new things to do carousel. This is from Search Engine Roundtable. This is a richer experience that appears when you do a search that triggers the things to do. So if you say things to do in Victoria, then you're going to get a better experience. The new test shows an Instagram Stories tile carousel with high resolution images and information. This link is also appearing in the search menu bar below the search box. If you run in an event or things to do type of website, you'll want to see if this test sticks. Who knows? It is again, just a test, but. And the other trick is, is it working in your area? Who knows? There's quite a number of tests we've talked about in the past and gosh, I very. A very small portion of them have actually ended up coming live.
- [11:35]
Scott Vanack
That's true. There's a lot of these tests that materialize. I think this one might. If you, if you saw the screenshot. I can't see it, of course, because it's us only. Go figure. The screenshot, you know, With Instagram and Facebook stories, things like that. You've got just like the little dots on the top and it scrolls through the images and it just, it looks really good. Like, I think aesthetically it looks great. I don't know how practical it is from a usability standpoint because I can't personally test it. But I think, you know, it might be good if somebody's running an image, an event or you know, has the things to do type tourism based site or attractions or something. I, I think it might be good for them. We'll find out though.
- [12:15]
Ross Dunn
All right. We'll see what happens there. All right, so we're going to jump now into the Mueller files. Disavowing toxic links is a waste of time. I love this. What was it just a little while ago how he was saying that you mentioned using the Disavow system? I. I'm just so confused.
- [12:34]
Scott Vanack
But anyway, yeah, yeah, that was back in May. It was not that long ago I mentioned a bit of that. Do you want me to do this one or do you.
- [12:41]
Ross Dunn
Yeah, sure, go for it.
- [12:42]
Scott Vanack
Okay. So it started off Chris Garrett on Blue Sky. I still have to use it. I haven't. I'm signed up. I'm not there yet. He said. I'm seeing a bunch, a bunch more people advocating disavowing toxic links still. Really? But I still don't see the tools giving me much in the way of a persuasive argument. John Mueller's response was SEOs and site owners should not spend time disavowing toxic links. He said it is a billable waste of time to disavow toxic links as provided in some of these SEO tool sets. And okay, so this is, I've kind of known this. I think most SEOs know this, that disavowing. We don't do it anymore. If an SEO tells you we need to start disavowing links, you know, question it because it sounds ridiculous at this point. You can still do it. The tool is still live on Search Console. So I don't know. I don't do it. I don't waste time doing it. Maybe in an extreme situation I might consider it. Maybe. But even that, I don't think I would, especially now. But back in May, John had said most spammy, paid, placed and swapped links are just ignored nowadays. At some point I'm sure we'll remove it. Referring to the tool. Bing also removed their tool in 2023. In that post back at SC Roundtable in May, John did say that he also suggested that it's probably only usable in extreme situations. So he implied that it was still useful back then. So, you know, I guess a lot's happened in, what are we at, eight, nine months since he said that. Now he's like, ah, it's a waste of time. Don't do it.
- [14:14]
Ross Dunn
Oh.
- [14:15]
Scott Vanack
So if you want confirmation. There you go.
- [14:17]
Ross Dunn
There you go. Okay, let's take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to jump into our predictions for 2025.
- [14:30]
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- [14:42]
Ross Dunn
Hey, mom, you seen my toothbrush? Ah, I'm almost done with it.
- [14:48]
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- [15:00]
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- [16:02]
Ross Dunn
Welcome back to SEO101 on WMR FM, hosted by myself, Ross Dunn, CEO of Stepforth Web Marketing, and my company, Senior SEO, Scott Vanack. Okay, well, why don't you jump in, Scott? What are your predictions? We broke them up into sections. So he's going to go first with his and I'll jump in with mine.
- [16:23]
Scott Vanack
Yeah, we'll probably have a bit of overlap, but maybe not too much. So I think my first prediction is kind of dumb because it's so obvious that AI advances will continue significantly. And I think in the world of search, we're going to see our tools are going to improve. Like Semrush is going to get better things like Screaming Frog. Maybe we'll start using some form of AI. You know, who knows?
- [16:45]
Ross Dunn
They already have integrated ChatGPT.
- [16:48]
Scott Vanack
Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, okay. Well, see, there we go. It's already begun. I was right. And I didn't even know it. So, yeah, I think the tools are going to get better. I think when it comes to content creation, I mean, that's already getting better by the day. Automation in terms of, of AI content, it's there, people are doing it. Is it a good idea? Well, that's another question. But I think it's going to become really big. I think people are going to be able to just say go. And their AIs are just going to pump out content for better or for worse. I think we're going to see more of that and I think AI is going to become more useful in doing SEO audits and that sort of thing. Scanning sites for site health again, it kind of happens a little bit already, but it's not huge yet. So I think Semrush is probably going to adopt that and we're going to see a lot more of that. So, yeah, tools, they're going to get better. I also think we're definitely. Well, I don't. I think we know this basically, but we're going to see an increased AI presence in search. Obviously, AI overviews will just keep evolving. They've changed a lot. I feel like they're getting better. We're seeing few fewer instances where AI overviews are suggesting something totally ridiculous and stupid, like putting glue on a pizza, things like that. I think, I think those days are going to be gone by the end of next year. We're going to see fewer of those obviously wrong answers. All the wrong answers we see will look right, but they'll still be wrong. So you still gonna have to be careful. And I think search is going to distance itself a lot further from the 10 blue links. Thinking SGE as search generative experiences. I think just the results you see when you do a search are going to be wildly different in a year from now. More imagery, more who knows? I don't know what it's going to look like, but I think it's just going to be that SGE thing is going to just change it up a lot. Chat GPT search is going to get a huge growth in market share, I hope, and I think it will. Google will, we just talked about this, will keep pumping out core updates and not give us any guidance on what any of them mean or what to do. And they'll probably do another one at Christmas time next year, if I'm being honest. I. I think content creation is, or the role of content is going to grow in terms of what you need to do, how much effort you need to put out to, into your content that you're creating. With so many people using AI, content is growing and jumping in leaps and bounds and you're really going to have to push your, your eat, your experience, expertise, authoritativeness and trustworthiness more than ever before. Putting out a, you know, three, 400 word blog post just on the fly is probably not going to cut it anymore. And even, well, that's already been reduced this year, but I think it's going to just be worse and I think we'll probably start seeing a bit of a natural reduction in organic traffic more specifically to informational sites like, like I said in my test with Search GPT, the informational query I did was good. It was probably good enough that I didn't need to go elsewhere, I didn't need to click a link. So I think sites like that might see a bit of trouble. I don't know, it'll have less of effect in my opinion on things like, you know, looking for specific products or, or services where you're going to have to click through and learn more information about it. So yeah, I think that's, I think that's all I got.
- [20:03]
Ross Dunn
All right, well, that's so many. Literally. I delayed this show so long because I was creating a bit of a mind map and more are coming to mind as I go here. But anyway, to start off with, I believe that Google will finally prove it's ahead of the AI competition. I mean, after all, they did create the transformers that have allowed platforms like Chat GPT even function. So they are and we're ahead. But I think they've kept a lot indoors and part of the example of that is their XR glasses they just announced that have some pretty amazing functionality if you believe the demo. And I've long since learned not to believe demos because they never seem to be real. But who knows, it could be really cool. So we'll see what happens there. But I believe they're, they're going to shake out any concern that they're behind. Although I do hope they have a few more mistakes like the, the glue thing that was pretty funny. AI agents are going to become, become more usable in SEO now. AI agents? What the heck are those? I wanted to find a user friendly way to describe it. There's two ways. One is kind of the, the default explanation. AI agents are autonomous intelligent systems performing specific, specific tasks without human intervention. But I liked this response. Brian O'Neill, he's a professional professor of computer science at Quinnipiac University. I don't know where that is. But he says AI agents are technological tools that can learn a lot about a given environment and then with a few simple prompts from a human, work to solve problems or perform specific tasks in that environment. He gave some great examples in an article I read or skimmed anyway, and one of them was like a Roomba is an AI agent. Its purpose is to clean. It's very decent at it anyway, and it's designed to do that. So it does it fairly well. Well, we'll be able to create our own AI agents and tell them what to do. I think that either, you know, the usage of these will be quite simple, but over the course of 2025, many more use cases will be shown for more advanced methods, such as and this is an SEO, this is in many other realms as well. But for example, you could use an AI agent to search Google for specific results, let's say in Reddit, and then filter them for specific criteria, while also checking each posting profile to ensure that they have great reputation. So you're not just doing a search, you're doing a search. But then also telling, okay, so this particular person on Reddit was talking about this. Make sure that this is worth following up. Do they have a good reputation? Do they have a good karma score? There's a bunch of stuff they could tell it to do and then it will then then output the results in this layout in Google Sheet, Google Sheets. I already know this can be done to a certain degree, but this is going to be much more user friendly. There's actually. Well, we talked about Project Mariner in the last episode. This is going to be a Chrome extension coming out in 2025 if everything happens as expected. And I do believe there's a lot of pressure on Google and going back to the first point, I had to show that they're ahead of the game. So I think 2025 is going to be like a deluge of of interesting upgrades and everything to AI in our lives from Google. So we'll see what happens there. I believe. You know, I think it was in the last episode we talked about how many people are using AI and it was quite low. It was 20 or 30, something like that.
- [23:53]
Scott Vanack
I think it was less. I think it was like 14 or 15%, something like that.
- [23:56]
Ross Dunn
It was surprisingly low used AI. Well, I believe it's going to be in the 50 percentile in 2025, maybe as high as 60%. This stuff grows so quickly and if it becomes ubiquitous and built into our environments, it's going to be a lot Easier for everyone to try it. And I don't mean everyone's going to be using these every day, but if at least tried, AI would be in the 60 percentile. Maybe we'll see. One of the things I've been using a lot and I find them interesting, they're not, they're far from perfect, but AI sandboxes, I think these are going to become ubiquitous amongst the more techies techie world here, especially in SEO. Now, what are they? Essentially, you create your own knowledge base and then use AI to just answer questions based on the content in that knowledge base. It doesn't need to look at anything else. That this is a really handy way for it to, for you to train it in a way, although you're not technically training it, but you're giving it only access to information you want it to have so that you get the results you want for your search. I'll give you an example of a really fun, well, not fun, very simple way of using it that saved me a lot of time and made it a little more fun than it would have been. That is. I was looking up bylaws for my house. I thought, oh my God, there's no way I'm going to get through this document. It was like the most, the most horrid legalese I've ever seen. And of course it was meant for the public. Yeah, right. Well, I thought, well, why don't I use Get Odin? This is the tool I use getodin AI and I created a sandbox, or in this case a project they call it, and I made it Sanich bylaws. That's where I live. And then I uploaded the bylaws and I let it ingest it. It took a little while for it to read through it all and make it part of the knowledge base. And then I asked a simple question, what do I need to know about putting a shed on the side of my house? And a bunch of other questions. And it came out with all the answers and told me where to look. And I was like, this is so much easier now. Why in heck the municipality doesn't have a simple question and answer system for this? I don't know. But think of the other applications for that. I'm already using it for clients where I need to know more about their very intricate softwares. I can upload all their manuals. I can then do searches within that one knowledge base and go, okay, what are the main advantages of this? And it can actually go offline or go online as well and compare things but it's going to specifically use what you have in this knowledge base. So I asked it to compare and contrast that their tool versus another tool and it gave me great insights. It didn't necessarily have all that information at its behest, but now it does. Really, really, really interesting what you can do with this. And I understand from Dave Davies, I would lunch with him the other day, he was saying and he works at weights and measures. I understand that there is going. OpenAI has announced that they're going to include sandboxes in their paid system soon. I don't know whether or not it will be available to everyone or it'll be a next because they've already talked about increasing rates. So it may be only in the plus version which is a lot more money. I, I don't know but there are already these competitive systems like odin. There's another one I bought recently too I think was another app, Sumo App that does the same concept. I never like to just put all my eggs in one basket because you never know one of these companies could go under. So I like to at least have a couple that are really good and sometimes they do one thing better than the other one anyway, really look into these. I think it's going to be fascinating. I mean you could have it. You could throw all of your emails into one of these systems for the last two decades and it'll probably do a better job of searching it and then you could use it to create chat GPT answers. And I mean it's so amazing all the things you can do. And I think that's going to be much more common in 2025. Search GPT will open access to the public without an account by mid-2025. That's my belief. I don't think it will be earlier. I think there's a lot of pressure for them to know how many people are in it and to get that personal information that an account provides. Um, and even mid-2025 might be, I don't know, too optimistic but I'm hoping by then because that at that point and you don't need to have an account, they'll really be in the running as a search engine and I think everyone wants to see that with Google just owning too much. I also believe that by the end of 2025 they'll be including ads. They're going to be a lot of pressure to make. It's going to be a lot of pressure to make money on that. And why not, right? If they're doing a Great job. It's going to be pretty obvious whether or not they're going to use their own systems or they're going to use a third party. I would highly doubt they're going to use their own system. I would expect that they're going to be using a third party system to do that. I don't know what it would be.
- [28:52]
Scott Vanack
But yeah, I think those will basically come hand in hand because AI is so expensive to run and if they open it up to be free for everybody, that's going to be pricey. And so I bet ads roll out at the same time or very close to the same time at least like within a few months is what I would guess.
- [29:09]
Ross Dunn
Yeah, definitely. One of the things I didn't note here is that I believe we're going to hear a lot more about the AI wall that they're going to be hitting. It's. They're already hitting it. Essentially the limitations on the power that's required to run these systems, the financial, like just. There's only so much money to throw at them. You're getting a lot of it. Also, one of the more finite resources is information used to train AI. That's limited. It really is limited, especially if they're going to follow ethics. So that's going to be a big issue and we're going to hear a lot more about it in 2025. Now, as I understand it, there's going to be some. They're going to try some artificial methods to create information that they can train with, which is really creepy. I can see too many biases happening there. We'll have to see what happens there. Anyway, I don't know what's going to happen, but it's really fascinating. I heard that Google has actually bought three nuclear reactors. These are not built yet, but they're getting them built specifically for them. They're not building themselves. That would be crazy. But a company has literally won the bid to build them three nuclear reactors to run all this stuff powered by Android. It's insane. Now if the reactors look like big Android, like that'd be cool.
- [30:42]
Scott Vanack
They should. Yeah, they should, right?
- [30:45]
Ross Dunn
I haven't found the article on that, so I may be talking about my ass, but it was from someone I trust who said that, so that's.
- [30:50]
Scott Vanack
Well, it's crazy. If you're wrong. Just say it was a prediction.
- [30:53]
Ross Dunn
There you go. Yeah, yeah. AI overviews will gradually become. I don't know, I was just throwing this out there, but will gradually become the top 25% of search real estate consistently in all searches and more ads will be incorporated into this. I believe that's going to cause a bit of dysphoria because it's bad enough when AI overviews are taking over space but then when they add ads into it, which they will. We've already seen samples of them doing it. It's, it's, I don't know. I, I, I hope it, I hope they take a hit. I really do. I don't think that that's going to provide a very good search experience. Now I wanted to get into some dream ones. Wouldn't these be great? Google will be told to break up by the Department of Justice. They're considering it but they haven't actually made that choice. So we'll see. Next up Google will finally bring down the hammer on local spam. We can dream.
- [31:49]
Scott Vanack
Dream. The emphasis on the dream.
- [31:51]
Ross Dunn
Yeah. Bing will rise to a 10 or more market share. It's a long way to go. I think they're at 4 right now or 3, not much. Search, search GPT will move to a 15 market share. I don't know whether that's out of touch that it's hard to by the end of the year they could be 10. It's, it's really up to them. Especially if they open it up to the wider use of the public and Search GPT isn't exactly the friendliest URL. Hopefully they can figure something else.
- [32:26]
Scott Vanack
No. What is it? Like chat GPT, AI slash search or something? Isn't it?
- [32:31]
Ross Dunn
No. Now you can just type in search GPT.com.
- [32:34]
Scott Vanack
Oh you can? Okay. But still kind of sucks. But.
- [32:37]
Ross Dunn
Yeah, exactly. It's not great. And that's going to have, I think that's going to be a big problem unless they build it into certain browsers which they're going to obviously attempt to do. That makes good sense or at least plugins. And my dream is that I'll own a pair of Android XR glasses that work in Canada which is about a.0001% chance I'm sure since I don't even believe they're releasing them next year. But, and if they do I think they're starting off with a headset and not the glasses yet. So we'll see.
- [33:13]
Scott Vanack
So you need to be a beta tester and then maybe you can get your hands on a pair.
- [33:16]
Ross Dunn
Yeah. A Canadian beta tester. That's rare. I can only imagine.
- [33:20]
Scott Vanack
Make it happen Ross.
- [33:21]
Ross Dunn
I, I, I'm gonna do everything I can. Yeah. I'll beg. Well there we go. There's a few. I'd love to share more. Maybe I'll share some more at the beginning of next year. I definitely want to put more thought into this because there's so many fascinating things happening right now and I know enough people and I've read enough information about sort of the insider stuff that's going on that I think it's just a matter of writing it down and seeing the connections. We used to do that a lot with Jim Hedger. Jim was really good at brainstorming, too. And we used to put that on the wall. Like put together whatever the idea was on the wall and then we'd start breaking it down. Remember that?
- [34:00]
Scott Vanack
Yeah, we always had a whiteboard going. Or not a whiteboard, but an easel with.
- [34:04]
Ross Dunn
Yeah.
- [34:05]
Scott Vanack
The paper on it. Yeah.
- [34:06]
Ross Dunn
I only just got rid of that easel. It's funny anyway. Yeah. And it was just a great way to go. Oh, there's that connection. And it's just. It really, really helps. So I want to do more of that and maybe it'll come out with some interesting stuff to share with you in 2025. Well, thanks for listening, everyone. It's been a pleasure this year. I can't believe we're almost at episode 500, at which point we're going to try and get a special guest. No idea exactly who yet. We've got some thoughts, but we'll see what happens. Remember, we have a Show Notes newsletter you can sign up for @seo101radio.com, so I hope you do that. We do put a lot of effort into making sure that's really useful for you. Anyway, have a great week and a great beginning of your new year. And remember to tune into future episodes, which air every week on WMR fm.
- [34:55]
Scott Vanack
Awesome. Thank you for listening everybody.
- [35:19]
Ross Dunn
Wow.
- [35:20]
Scott Vanack
What's up? I just bought and financed a car.
- [35:22]
Ross Dunn
Through Carvana in minutes.
- [35:24]
Scott Vanack
You, the person who agonized four weeks over whether to paint your walls eggshell or off white, bought and financed a car in minutes. They made it easy, transparent terms, customizable, down and monthly. Didn't even have to do any paperwork. Wow.
- [35:37]
Ross Dunn
Mm. Hey, have you checked out that spreadsheet I sent you for our dinner?
- [35:41]
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