SEO 101 Episode 497 - Adapting SEO for 2025 and Optimizing for AI Overviews

Summary

SEO 101 Episode 497: Adapting SEO for 2025 and Optimizing for AI Overviews
Hosted by Ross Dunn, CEO of Stepforth Web Marketing
Release Date: April 2, 2025

---

Introduction

In Episode 497 of SEO 101, hosted solo by Ross Dunn due to Scott Van Achte's holiday absence, the episode delves into the evolving landscape of Search Engine Optimization (SEO) as we approach 2025. The discussion primarily focuses on adapting SEO strategies in the era of artificial intelligence (AI) and understanding Google's latest updates affecting search results.

---

1. Navigating Google’s March 2025 Core Update

Timestamp: [02:10] - [08:08]

Ross opens the episode by addressing the recent Google core update rolled out on March 13, 2025. Scott Van Achte shares insights, noting that many website owners have observed significant ranking fluctuations since the update's inception.

• Monitoring and Adaptation:

  • Ross Dunn emphasizes the importance of closely monitoring website analytics to assess the update's impact on traffic and rankings.

    "[03:09] Scott: Your traffic and rankings."

  • Scott Van Achte advises focusing on quality content and user experience, suggesting that maintaining valuable and well-researched content can help navigate ranking volatility.

    "[03:24] Ross Dunn: So ensure your content's valuable, well researched."

• Staying Informed:

  • The hosts highlight the necessity of staying updated with Google's guidelines and best practices. While these updates may sometimes offer limited actionable insights, paying attention to them remains crucial.

    "[04:06] Scott: They don't always turn out to be all that helpful. You should just say write better."

• Industry Insights:

  • Ross references a Google Search Central Live event in New York City where Denny Sullivan, the Google Search liaison, discussed AI-driven search results.

    "[05:04] Scott: Remain applicable and important."

---

2. Understanding AI Overviews and SEO Implications

Timestamp: [04:25] - [22:54]

The conversation transitions to AI overviews in search results, a significant shift in how Google presents information.

• AI Overview Mechanics:

  • Denny Sullivan explained that AI-generated search results differ from traditional methods but the core SEO principles remain relevant.

    "[05:04] Scott: Remain applicable and important."

  • Ross introduces two key concepts:
    • Predictive Summaries: AI anticipates related queries to provide comprehensive answers beyond the initial question.

      "[05:15] Ross Dunn: Predictive summaries aim to answer user queries."

    • Grounding Links: These are contextual links within AI overviews that reference sources, often outside the traditional top 10 search results.

      "[06:29] Ross Dunn: Grounding links are used in AI overviews to anchor summaries."

• Adapting to AI-Driven Search:

  • John Mueller, via a Search Engine Journal article, emphasizes aligning SEO strategies with evolving web development and user experience needs. Key areas of focus include mobile performance, AI tool integration, responsive design, client-side functionality, and prompt engineering for AI interactions.

    "[09:24] Ross Dunn: Crucial for SEO to professionals to align their strategies with current business needs."

• Prompt Engineering:

  • Both hosts agree on the critical role of prompt engineering in leveraging AI tools effectively for SEO.

    "[10:26] Ross Dunn: And engineering that, making it better every."
    "[10:42] Scott: Anyway, that's. It's big stuff."

---

3. Expert Insights: Jono Alderson’s Perspectives

Timestamp: [14:16] - [17:38]

Drawing from contributions by Jono Alderson, former head of SEO at Yoast and current Meta professional, the hosts discuss advanced content marketing strategies.

• AI vs. Human-Created Content:

  • Jono advises against relying solely on AI-generated content, advocating for meaningful and insightful content that AI cannot replicate.

    "[15:06] Ross Dunn: AI content should be avoided since Google AI can provide precise and complex answers."

  • Scott contends that integrating AI with human oversight can enhance content quality, allowing SEOs to save time while maintaining authenticity.

    "[16:57] Scott: And then take the resulting written article by AI and massage it yourself and make it into something that is truly yours."

• Redefining Success Metrics:

  • Jono suggests shifting focus from mere clicks to building deeper relationships with audiences, influencing potential customers early in their journey.

    "[15:27] Scott: In essence, Jono's advocating for a return to the roots of marketing."

---

4. Selling on Marketplaces vs. Own E-Commerce Websites

Timestamp: [17:59] - [20:55]

The hosts explore the strategic decision between utilizing established marketplaces like Amazon versus developing proprietary e-commerce websites.

• Advantages of Marketplaces:

  • Instant access to a vast customer base and brand recognition, albeit with fees and limited branding control.

    "[18:04] Scott: Offer immediate access to a large."

• Pros of Owning a Website:

  • Complete control over branding and customer relationships, though it demands significant effort in traffic generation and site maintenance.

    "[18:46] Ross Dunn: Pro is that it provides full control over branding and customer relationships."

• Balanced Approach:

  • Starting on a marketplace to build initial sales and brand presence, then gradually transitioning traffic to a personal website for better profit margins and customer loyalty.

    "[19:33] Ross Dunn: Start on micro marketplace to help build initial sales and brand recognition."
    "[20:45] Scott: You may even find like it's just like pay per click and so paid ads and SEO."

---

5. Latest AI Developments in SEO

Timestamp: [20:55] - [22:54]

Ross shares updates on AI overviews expanding to more regions within the European Union, enhancing the global applicability of AI-driven search results.

• Regional Expansions:

  • AI overviews are now live in Germany, Belgium, Ireland, Italy, Austria, Poland, Portugal, Spain, and Switzerland, supporting multiple languages including English.

    "[21:21] Ross Dunn: Google expands AI overviews to more EU Regions."

• Speculations and Observations:

  • Scott expresses confusion over the delayed rollout in certain regions, particularly Switzerland, despite being home to Google's headquarters.

    "[22:12] Scott: It's kind of weird, isn't it?"

---

Conclusion

Ross wraps up the episode by reiterating the importance of adapting SEO strategies to incorporate AI advancements and maintain quality content standards. He encourages listeners to stay informed and proactive in implementing the discussed strategies to ensure sustained online success.

"[20:16] Scott: Makes good sense. And it is a question that we get asked."

Listeners are reminded to subscribe to the podcast’s newsletter for ongoing updates and to tune into future episodes airing weekly on WMR.FM.

---

Notable Quotes

• Ross Dunn

  "[03:09] Scott: Your traffic and rankings."
  "[05:15] Ross Dunn: Predictive summaries aim to answer user queries."
  "[10:42] Scott: Anyway, that's. It's big stuff."

• Scott Van Achte

  "[03:24] Ross Dunn: So ensure your content's valuable, well researched."
  "[15:06] Ross Dunn: AI content should be avoided since Google AI can provide precise and complex answers."
  "[16:57] Scott: And then take the resulting written article by AI and massage it yourself and make it into something that is truly yours."

---

Key Takeaways

1. Monitor Google Updates: Stay vigilant with site analytics post-update to navigate ranking changes effectively.
2. Emphasize Quality Content: Focus on creating valuable, user-centric content that stands out beyond AI-generated material.
3. Integrate AI Wisely: Utilize AI tools for efficiency, complemented by human oversight to maintain authenticity.
4. Balanced E-Commerce Strategy: Leverage marketplaces for initial growth while gradually establishing a proprietary online presence.
5. Stay Informed on AI Developments: Keep abreast of AI-driven search evolution to adapt SEO strategies accordingly.

---

By embracing these insights, SEO professionals and business owners can strategically position themselves to thrive in the dynamic digital landscape of 2025.

Transcript

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[Ross Dunn]

Hello and welcome to SEO 101 on WMR FM episode number 497. This is Ross Dunn, CEO of Stepforth Web Marketing and I'm running solo today as my co host Scott is away on a holiday to the lovely Hawaiian Islands.

[Scott]

Lucky bomb. All right, so let's just jump right in a well, we're all we talked about it recently that there's been a core update, yet another one in March. It started on March 13 and it.

[Ross Dunn]

Should be just about done.

[Scott]

Rolling out according to Barry Schwartz. Now, many website owners and other SEOs have noticed significant shifts in their site.

[Ross Dunn]

Rankings since the update began. In fact, there was even some volatility before the announcement.

[Scott]

But Google has confirmed that that pre update turbulence was unrelated. Really, this is nothing new, but I.

[Ross Dunn]

Wanted to give you a few reminders of what you should do when this.

[Scott]

Happens and if you see some up.

[Ross Dunn]

And down in your own ranking and.

[Scott]

What you should do.

[Ross Dunn]

So first, monitor it closely. Keep an eye on your site's analytics to understand how the update is impacting.

[Scott]

Your traffic and rankings.

[Ross Dunn]

Next, focus on quality.

[Scott]

I mean, you just gotta push past this as all things, all these things are happening. This is something you can't immediately impact. So you just need to work with it.

[Ross Dunn]

So ensure your content's valuable, well researched.

[Scott]

Aligns with your audience, and if you.

[Ross Dunn]

Find some content that looks outdated but.

[Scott]

You'Re getting a lot of traffic to it, refresh it. It's just a given that that will help your website and frankly just help.

[Ross Dunn]

The experience of your users, which is always foremost, should be foremost on your mind.

[Scott]

If you keep your visitors happy, search engines will be happy in many cases. Next, stay informed.

[Ross Dunn]

This podcast will help, of course, but.

[Scott]

Google's guidelines and best practices, they get updated occasionally and they can offer some.

[Ross Dunn]

Insights into maintaining and improving your site's performance.

[Scott]

They don't always turn out to be all that helpful. You should just say write better. But you know what? It's still worth paying attention to them.

[Ross Dunn]

Because once in a while you get.

[Scott]

A nugget that you really can act upon.

[Ross Dunn]

All right, so there was a Google Search Central.

[Scott]

Live, live, actually in person. What the heck? In New York City and at this event, Denny Sullivan, our old leader, one.

[Ross Dunn]

Of the leaders of our industry, the SEO is, who's now the Google Search liaison.

[Scott]

He crossed the line, became part of the problem. No, no, he's good, he's helpful. I mean, he has to toe the line, but it is always nice to have someone who understands our industry who's working for Google anyway.

[Ross Dunn]

He shared that while the mechanisms for generating AI overview search results differ from traditional methods, the fundamental principles of SEO.

[Scott]

Remain applicable and important. That's kind of the nutshell, but he.

[Ross Dunn]

Also introduced two concepts to help better.

[Scott]

Explain AI overview search results.

[Ross Dunn]

Predictive summaries and grounding links. Predictive summaries aim to answer user queries. I'm going to read this off.

[Scott]

I got AI to write this for me here.

[Ross Dunn]

By predicting related variations the user might be interested in seeing, utilizing a concept called information gain.

[Scott]

In other words, they are not only.

[Ross Dunn]

Trying to answer the question being asked, but what the reader is most likely.

[Scott]

To ask after reading the answer.

[Ross Dunn]

This is why it's possible to see a referred link in the AI overviews that isn't from the top 10 results.

[Scott]

Below, because that can get really confusing. Even Danny brought that up and he said, look, people who go to search results kind of expect that one of.

[Ross Dunn]

The top 10 were going to show.

[Scott]

Up at top as one of the cited results. But it isn't that case. Often it's a completely different one again because Google's trying to anticipate what you're.

[Ross Dunn]

Going to search after as well. Grounding links are what you see in.

[Scott]

The search or in the AI overview. Those are typical little paper clips that link you to more results that have fed that information.

[Ross Dunn]

Grounding links are used in AR overviews to anchor summaries.

[Scott]

This is how they put it to.

[Ross Dunn]

Verifiable information, making links appear more contextual and varied than traditional organic search results.

[Scott]

Now why is this important? Because obviously those are links to their sources.

[Ross Dunn]

Well the sources are awfully are often also different than the top 10 because again Google's trying to predict and they.

[Scott]

They are grabbing information from other places that helped inform their search result. There's some interesting analogies that are used.

[Ross Dunn]

In this particular article at Search Engine.

[Scott]

Journal, so do go check it out.

[Ross Dunn]

The title is Insights from Google search.

[Scott]

Central Live NYC 2025. All in all, Danny Sullivan advises against.

[Ross Dunn]

Trying to simultaneously optimize for both organic search and AI overview results, as this.

[Scott]

May lead to complications. He also suggested not to try to.

[Ross Dunn]

Optimize for Google's AI mode since it is still in labs and will likely change significantly.

[Scott]

Anything in labs is roll the dice man. I you know, if you're really cutting edge and you want to play go nuts. But do not expect whatever you're going to work is going to have any lasting impact on anything in labs. If you get in there and you you you feel like you figured it out, it'll probably change tomorrow on you. You're still going to be better for.

[Ross Dunn]

It if you have the time because you're going to learn a lot.

[Scott]

But yeah, if you're a busy company busy SEO like we SEO company like we are, it's like no, you just.

[Ross Dunn]

Wait for things to settle and then figure things out.

[Scott]

And also depending on your industry you don't or your your market, you don't have to be on the cutting edge.

[Ross Dunn]

Most enterprise level businesses are huge like.

[Scott]

Fortune 500s they need to be and they have the staff for that.

[Ross Dunn]

They have research people that just research.

[Scott]

And test like this. In our case we don't need that because we're working with small medium businesses who can wait for things to settle because most changes don't happen overnight that are going to impact search results that dramatically because if they did, Google would lose money. They don't want to mess things up that much. It's not always the case, but most of the time. All right, so how are we going to adapt to SEO strategies in 2025?

[Ross Dunn]

And this is more of a post for fellow SEOs.

[Scott]

It's from John Mueller. It's actually sourced from. This is a search engine journal article, but it's sourced from a post that John put out. I believe it was on Twitter X whatever you want to call it. Anyway, as the digital landscape evolves, it's.

[Ross Dunn]

Crucial for SEO to professionals to align their strategies with current business needs. John Mueller emphasized this importance of adapting to changes in web development and user experience to stay relevant.

[Scott]

Just in a nutshell, developers have likely.

[Ross Dunn]

Changed a lot of their perception of.

[Scott]

What'S important for.

[Ross Dunn]

Ensuring your site's going to succeed for users and search engines, mainly users.

[Scott]

Now, how does that impact you?

[Ross Dunn]

Well, as an SEO, if you're a.

[Scott]

Fellow SEO, you're going to have to start focusing on things like more so on mobile performance skills, how to work with AI tools, understanding responsive design and.

[Ross Dunn]

The knowledge of client side functionality frameworks.

[Scott]

And how they affect SEO. Lastly, and most importantly, I think prompt engineering, because everything about AI right now is about your prompt, right?

[Ross Dunn]

And engineering that, making it better every.

[Scott]

Time you use it and taking note of it. That's.

[Ross Dunn]

That's my biggest problem.

[Scott]

Like, oh right, I forgot to write that down is incredibly important.

[Ross Dunn]

Prompts drive the result.

[Scott]

Anyway, that's. It's big stuff. This is actually a little list that Matt Southern, the author, extrapolated based on.

[Ross Dunn]

The information that John provided and a.

[Scott]

Few bit of his experience as well. That was a good list. So in other words, quote unquote, step.

[Ross Dunn]

Outside server level optimizations and focus on client side rendering and user experience elements. All right, let's take a quick break and we come back.

[Scott]

We're going to talk a bit about top SEO shares. Actually, pardon me, we're going to talk.

[Ross Dunn]

About some great tips from Jono Alderson.

[Scott]

As a top SEO who shares some great ideas.

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[Scott]

That's reputationdefender.com success101 on WMR FM hosted.

[Ross Dunn]

By myself Ross Dunn, CEO of Stepforth Web Marketing.

[Scott]

Okay, so again the title here is.

[Ross Dunn]

Top SEO Shares how to Win in the Era of Google AI and this is a Search Engine Journal article. Lots from Search Engine Journal this time around. Some good stuff.

[Scott]

This week. Always have good stuff, but this was particularly good.

[Ross Dunn]

Jono Alderson he's the former head of.

[Scott]

SEO at Yoast and now works at Meta, which I was shocked to hear. But good for him, I guess.

[Ross Dunn]

Provides some insights on the changes in content marketing. On the Majestic podcast recently.

[Scott]

He gave a lot of great advice. I'm going to try and boil it down a bit here to start with. Kind of like a tldr, he feels.

[Ross Dunn]

AI content should be avoided since Google AI can provide precise and complex answers.

[Scott]

On its own without relying on superficial content. So what does this mean?

[Ross Dunn]

You need to publish meaningful, insightful content that Google and AI can't create.

[Scott]

Hmm.

[Ross Dunn]

He also suggests SEOs reimagine how success is defined.

[Scott]

It's less about clicks and more about.

[Ross Dunn]

Building a relationship with the audience before.

[Scott]

They even think about making a purchase.

[Ross Dunn]

It means influencing potential customers early in their journey.

[Scott]

In essence, Jono's advocating for a return to the roots of marketing, creating content.

[Ross Dunn]

That connects and resonates on a deeper.

[Scott]

Level, prioritizing quality over quantity to truly stand out in today's landscape. All right, makes sense, right? It's not a big departure from what we've been hearing lately.

[Ross Dunn]

However, it was interesting that he said.

[Scott]

Stay away from AI content. I don't agree with that, but it is. I partially do. I would say that the majority of the ways that AI content is created these days, I would agree with him. However, taking a step back to what I was mentioning earlier about prompt engineering, creating great content can be done, let's say mostly great, because it won't be as good as you writing yourself and.

[Ross Dunn]

Putting all your heart and soul into.

[Scott]

It as an expert. Grant you that if you're a good writer. But if you use prompt engineering and put in points that are meaningful and.

[Ross Dunn]

Insightful and tell the AI to include.

[Scott]

These, and then take the resulting written article by AI and massage it yourself and make it into something that is truly yours. You have saved a lot of time.

[Ross Dunn]

You have used AI to create something.

[Scott]

Great, and I see that as being.

[Ross Dunn]

Beneficial and likely to rank and likely to make a difference on your website and your overall business.

[Scott]

I don't think Jono would disagree. He might feel that that's and I, you know, taking the devil's advocate approach.

[Ross Dunn]

He might feel that that is something.

[Scott]

That you could have done just by writing it yourself, but that's only if you've been writing a lot.

[Ross Dunn]

I find getting back into writing again.

[Scott]

Very difficult if I haven't been writing every day. So AI is a great Way to get things moving, grease the wheels a bit and create something that I can then truly make mine. So that's my, my, my take on that. All right, so another article was called.

[Ross Dunn]

Selling on Marketplaces versus your own website.

[Scott]

And I believe it was that wrote this. It's just going to see here Kevin Gibbons. He's an E commerce SEO and he.

[Ross Dunn]

Said that a common dilemma for online sellers is choosing between using marketplaces like Amazon versus running their own e commerce site.

[Scott]

And what he said is pretty much balances with what we've, what we say to our clients. In most cases, he says, marketplaces are pretty much the best way to start.

[Ross Dunn]

Offer immediate access. It offers immediate access to a large.

[Scott]

Customer base, but it does come with.

[Ross Dunn]

Fees and less control for branding.

[Scott]

So there's always pros and cons, right? If you own your own website, the.

[Ross Dunn]

Pro is that it provides full control over branding and customer relationships.

[Scott]

But it requires a lot of effort.

[Ross Dunn]

In driving traffic and maintaining the site.

[Scott]

And I would add that expand upon driving the traffic is when you have your own website. You have to begin that flow of.

[Ross Dunn]

Traffic, which is exceedingly difficult at the.

[Scott]

Beginning because Google and whatever other search engines you're working with, they don't trust you yet. There's just no reason for them to trust you yet.

[Ross Dunn]

And you have to build authority and.

[Scott]

All these different things. And in that, in the meantime, it's going to be very difficult to keep the business afloat unless you've got some seed money or you're perhaps doing it on the side. So a balanced approach is what he suggests.

[Ross Dunn]

Start on micro marketplace to help build initial sales and brand recognition.

[Scott]

This is actually very similar to what we say about anyone with a website that we're starting with is use paid ads to help build the initial sales while we're doing the SEO, because that does take time anyway.

[Ross Dunn]

He says over time, directing that traffic to your own website can lead to better profit margins and stronger customer loyalty.

[Scott]

Now, staying updated with these developments is.

[Ross Dunn]

Essential to navigating our SEO landscape. By focusing on quality content, adapting to.

[Scott]

New technologies and exploring diverse strategies, you.

[Ross Dunn]

Can enhance your online presence and achieve sustained success.

[Scott]

Makes good sense. And it is a question that we get asked. So if you're out there and you're thinking about starting your own e commerce site, I think ideally you would do both. But most of us, when we're starting a business, don't have that much time or money or even the ability to organize all of that. So start off in a marketplace, get.

[Ross Dunn]

That income, then go and build your.

[Scott]

Own website while you're still managing the.

[Ross Dunn]

Marketplace and do a nice transition.

[Scott]

You may even find like it's just like pay per click and so paid ads and SEO. You know, there's a time where you.

[Ross Dunn]

Could probably shut off your paid ads and just do SEO.

[Scott]

But why bother if your paid ads are giving you business, your SEO is giving you business. And the paid ads, I guess going.

[Ross Dunn]

Back to that, the paid ads are.

[Scott]

Actually converting at a higher, a high enough level that you're making money no.

[Ross Dunn]

Matter what you spend.

[Scott]

Well, why not just keep it? And that's what most of our clients do. And just. Well, it's just logical, right? Makes good sense. All right, some AI news.

[Ross Dunn]

Google expands AI overviews to more EU.

[Scott]

Regions Good news for the European Union.

[Ross Dunn]

They first launched in the US of course, AI overviews, and then expanded to over a hundred new countries last year.

[Scott]

And to my surprise, they're only now.

[Ross Dunn]

Officially live in these regions.

[Scott]

Now, I will get a little more on this, but I think it's perhaps just the language that's live, because I would expect that they would have been live before, but I don't know. Anyway. Germany, which has German and English.

[Ross Dunn]

Belgium, which includes English only at launch. Ireland, English, Italy, Italian and English.

[Scott]

Austria, which includes German and English.

[Ross Dunn]

Poland, Polish and English.

[Scott]

Portugal, Portuguese and English, Spain, Spanish and English. And for Switzerland, lastly, English, French, German and Italian. It's kind of weird, isn't it? I don't know why, but I always think of Switzerland because John Mueller, I.

[Ross Dunn]

Think even Martin Split, they're all in.

[Scott]

Switzerland at their Google headquarters there. Must be a little weird to wait this long to see AI overviews launched.

[Ross Dunn]

In their own country.

[Scott]

I never considered that before until I saw this. And I guess everyone has to wait unless you're in the States.

[Ross Dunn]

Well, on behalf of myself, Ross Dunn.

[Scott]

CEO of Stepforth Web Marketing, thank you for joining me today.

[Ross Dunn]

Remember, we have shownit's newsletter you can.

[Scott]

Sign up for at seo101radio.com have a great week and remember to tune into future episodes, which air every week on WMR fm.

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