← The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™
The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™
Building Strong Connections with AI-Powered Email Marketing Strategies with Danielle Cevallos
00:46:38
Loading summary
Transcript25 lines
- [00:01]
A
This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing, your insider guide to the strategies top marketers use to crush the competition. Ready to unlock your business full potential? Let's get started. All right. And we're here. We're live. I am your host, Matt Bertram of the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. We are continuing our series of the movers and shakers in the industry that are experts in all different type of areas. You know, I'm well known as an expert for SEO and as far as branding and email marketing and all that other stuff, I want to bring in some of the top experts for the audience to hear more about. And Danielle, I am so excited to have you on. I want to get into this. I think that personal branding, I actually did write some books about it years ago. I saw kind of the emergence of PR and personal branding with SEO, like digital pr, many years ago, and I wanted to bring on somebody that, that, that does that every day. And we were talking previously about email marketing and AI, and I just really thought it'd be good to bring you on. Could you please credentialize yourself real quick and then we'll just jump into the conversation?
- [01:23]
B
Yeah, I'll give you the really short list of highlights. I actually had a whole other career in education. That's what my master's is in. And I was like an old school blogger. So SEO is, I started a little bit there, had like a viral blog, learned all the marketing stuff as it came out, social media and email and all that, like, as it was happening. And I actually was a copywriter while I was teaching on the side because teachers make no money. And I ended up working for some very, very, very big name Internet people, training their copywriters, writing their copy for companies, you know, doing $100 million in revenue. And ultimately decided to come in house with one of my mentors and helped her build her company to eight figures, largely managing the marketing department. And then we have since started. It started with one company, now there are six. I am the president of three of those companies and oversee the marketing for all of those companies. So one of the companies is a marketing agency where I help medical practitioners and coaches, consultants, doctors, work on their email marketing, their personal brand strategy, some social media strategy, messaging, positioning, all of the fun stuff. So I've had my personal experience of doing it myself, and now I get to kind of see behind the scenes of marketing for businesses doing, you know, anywhere from 2 million to $50 million in revenue.
- [02:46]
A
So super, super impressive, super impressive. And, and I think that building a personal Brand strategy to cut through the noise today is, is really, really key to, you know, start out. If you're a one person practice or you're growing, you being the brand is what is the lightning rod that attracts people to you. And if you can do content marketing through podcasts and books and speaking, one to many kind of broadcasting and people know who you are and what your brand is. People, people, when they see you or understand you, they know what you do and they'll be attracted to you. And so I think that it's really, really important in today's age, copywriting, like Dan Kennedy read like all his books, all the different niches, you know, really, really powerful. Let's, let's talk about AI, because I think everybody's freaking out, right, about AI and I rightfully so I think AI agents are coming and it's going to be pretty wild. I'm, I'm excited. We live in this time, you know, but right now people are just getting a taste of it with like maybe the chat, GPTs, the Grox, that sort of thing. You know, when AI writes titles, they seem to be a little repetitive currently. You know, now you can train, you can train your large language model, right? Like you can load in a bunch of stuff, you can improve it with, with the right prompts, but if you're just out of the gate utilizing it for stuff, while you do get a title, it's, it's not great, right? I mean, what has been your experience? I know being deep in the email marketing and copywriting space, like, you're, you're bumping up against it and you're probably bumping up against clients of like, why should I pay you? You know, I can use ChatGPT for free, right? Like, so what's the, what's the argument for that? Right?
- [04:55]
B
Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts and this is something I've actually had to kind of work through because obvious it's, it's like the Internet. You can't act like, oh, this isn't happening, it's not real. It's just a phase. This is not just a phase. This is going to do what the Internet did to everything. It's going to do the same. And so to not pay attention is naive. On the flip side, people who have gone all in basically removing all the human touch, all the things that are uniquely human that a robot, a machine cannot do, they're really not doing well because we're living in a world where there's just a significant lack of trust everywhere. And for a Million reasons. And so one of the ways that you build trust is by building relationships. And we know this because old school, you used to network, right? Like you would go to events and you would meet people in person and you build relationships and they'd refer people and you'd refer people back. And it was, it was just an understood thing. You were building your personal brand back then. You were doing that then. So. So while I will not bury my head in the sand and act like AI isn't a thing, I also, I refuse to allow it to replace people. Centric marketing, because everything we know about what has always worked is people. And living in the times that we live in where literally nobody trusts anybody, we. We've seen clients with thousands of real testimonials. Thousands, not hundreds, not dozens, thousands of real testimonials. So you would think, gosh, this is so much proof that they can get results. And people are still hesitant because there's something in us that says, don't trust people, don't trust people. And so when you build your personal brand, you're building trust. Now, we do use AI. And so I have a few parameters and this is something. Just some general rules that I think. So I run our agency. I have a large, full time W2 employees. You know, in our agency, we don't do contractors. These are real people. I mentor them. They fly to me once a month like we do training in house. They are not allowed to use AI. They have to learn all of the skills. Now, there will be a point where they can, but until you know the psychology of marketing, until you understand the ideal buyer and the Personas and what that actually means in a tangible way, until you can take a piece of copy and make it nuanced and personable, and real AI is cheating you from developing those skills. Now there's myself and a couple of other people on our team who are very, very seasoned. I can use AI. I have written hundreds of sales pages that convert highly. I know exactly what works almost intuitively, not all the time. So when I sit down, number one, I have programmed my AI with my own frameworks, with my own work. And I've said, hey, I have a body. 10 years of thousands of hours of copywriting, I'm going to give it to you, and then I'm going to ask you very specifically to prompt it in a certain way. And then I know how to go back and edit it, because again, I have years and years of reps that this new team doesn't have. They have to build the Muscles first and know what looks good, what's right, what's wrong, why it's right, why it's wrong. And then they can start using this to, to, you know, be more efficient, to get more outcome in less time. But I think the mistake is people think it's going to do the thinking work for them, and it's not. So you have to every. I say this all the time, every marketing strategy, and obviously you know this in SEO, every marketing strategy will rise and fall on positioning and messaging. And those are. You cannot shortcut that. There's nothing to do that will shortcut the need to effectively position your company, your brand, yourself, and to get clear on messaging. That's not something a machine can do for you because it's nuanced. Once you have that, all the other pillars can be kind of built up under that. You can build a content strategy, you can build your SEO strategy, you can build your podcast YouTube strategy, but you cannot do anything without that. And so without a deep understanding of what makes those two things effective, you can get chat, GBT to write a bunch of random posts for you. It's not going to matter because you don't have the overarching strategy in place and you don't know what good looks like. And so you're just letting it create a generic brand that's ultimately going to do the opposite of what you needed to do. It's not going to build trust, it's going to undermine your trust.
- [09:27]
A
So, no, I agree with that. I think that it's all about the operator, right? So if you don't know what good looks like, you're just going to trust what it does and it might not be correct. Now, you know, on basic things, it's pretty good at it, right? It's pretty accurate at information recall, right? Like, it knows a lot of stuff but doesn't understand the nuances. I think that there's a component also of genuineness, right? Of, like, who you are, are you who you say you are, right? And like, people want to connect with people, they want to know. Like, people do business with people and people do business with people they know, like, and trust. And if you present one way online or your copy presents one way and it's not reflective of your brand, when they get on the phone with you, like, have you, have you done that? Like, have you, like, got on the phone with somebody after you've been, like, emailing back and forth, or you've, like, read all their stuff and they act completely different and it, it becomes like such a turnoff.
- [10:33]
B
Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. I've had it happen more, more often with clients. They're like, this is who we are. And you get back behind the business and you're like, oh no, not really. You're not doing what you say. Yeah.
- [10:46]
A
And so, so, so it's about making that connection and, and, and, and wanting to work with that person and, and through this hyperspace. I don't know what, what this is. Like we're, we're in virtual reality right now, right? Like you're looking at Avatar of me, I'm looking at Avatar of you. We're, we're across the country, you know, but it makes the world a lot smaller in virtual reality. But we still want to connect with people. We still, you know, want to know who we're dealing with and can you count on this person? And, and do you have my best interest in heart? And like those are, I think the number one thing that, that I've seen. I've seen it in data and I've also seen it when clients feel like they're a number. Right. Versus a person. Like the apathy component is, is why clients leave. Right. That's just a specific to, to agencies. We got a lot of agency listeners out there. And you know, you can grow and you can scale and you can do all that. But it's, but it's that personal touch. Now here's the thing. Automation, AI, you can build a personal experience. Like that's what, that's what I, that's what drew me in to actually digital marketing in the first place. I was doing cold call selling, you know, 60, 80 calls a day. Okay. And I started to learn with the Internet I could create a personalized experience for every person I was talking to as far as like email drips, follow ups, stuff like that. And I could connect with them and create that experience for them that I wanted them to have and then I could scale it, right. And you know, you can use things to send out birthday cards, Hey, I care about this person. I did the work, I set it up. You know, I want to remind them like, hey, I know there's, there's a lot of things that you can utilize this for and it can help build your network. But if you're just going AI, just do it for me, you're going to get, get in trouble. Let's talk about that for a minute. Like, you know, so email, email, Email automation, right? Email automation with the brand voice in the message. Like how would you frame that up? Because I think that that's really important, that when you're emailing out to people, you're trying to communicate a certain message. Like how do you, how do you look at that when you start, start a campaign or a project for somebody?
- [13:13]
B
Yeah. So I have some probably unpopular opinions here, but I think ultimately most people don't have a brand voice. They have no real clarity on who they are in their messaging and they're like, I just want my email to convert people. But you have to understand the inbox is one of the most competitive places to be. It's highly effective. Right. So you're much more likely to make a sale from your emails than you are from your Instagram posts. But, but it is extremely competitive. You're not just competing to get in the right tab, but you know, people are drowning in emails all day long from everyone, requesting things from them for work, for their business, whatever they're doing, their kids, school. Like it's everywhere. It's all in the email. Right. And so your email strategy has to be like an actual strategy. And nobody ever wants to take the time or pay the money to build a strategy. They want emails written for them quickly and emails written for them quickly. You can have it, chat, GPT, do it. It's going to be like a B minus. So you'll be all right, but you're really not going to get the traction you want. And over time what happens is you train people to tune you out. If you don't provide value for long enough, they will open a few times. Right. You get some good subject lines in there, they'll open it if it's not good, if it's not something they want. You're actually training them to not pay attention to you because now they're going to see that name in the inbox and be like, that's always stupid. I always fall for it. I always open it and then stupid. And they're not going to unsubscribe. Sometimes they will unsubscribe, but sometimes it just stay there and kill your open rates and kill your click through rates because they're not going to take the time to unsubscribe, but they really don't care about what you have to say. So the first thing I think is so critical is number one, going back to positioning and messaging. What are you trying to position yourself as? Does that translate down into an actual email strategy? Do you even have a brand voice? That's documented, that's real and that is across platforms. And then as you're implementing the email strategy, are you paying attention to the data to see what people are taking action on what's driving results so that you can do more of that? Most people don't look at any of that. They're like our open rates low. So, so let's change the subject line. Like, which open rates don't even matter anymore because they're not even that accurate. So they do matter, but they're not, they're not accurate, you know, in terms of what is actually going to drive results. So they're like, oh my, click through rates low, make the button bigger, or make it a different color. Like, things that have nothing to do with actually creating content that like, people want to open. Like, they should see. There's probably about two people, I can think of two people where I like, see their name in my inbox and like, I'm like, oh, I like their stuff. I actually want to open this. And everybody else, I'm like, if it's a good subject line, I might like, maybe on a good day, you know.
- [16:05]
A
I think it's about creating value, right? And if someone's gonna open the email, I mean, we're long away from the day that you got an email. And everybody would read every word of every email and they're just super impressed by like, I remember, like, you know, emails were so cool, right? And, and now like, I have to use AI to filter out my emails because also I think, you know, I read this book, I, I can't remember who wrote it. It was called Permission Marketing. Like, anybody I talk to just automatically puts me on an email list, okay, Interact with, just puts me on an email list. And so I have to have like a, a ritual process to like filter out these emails. Now, you know, I think the best idea is probably put like, create a separate email for newsletters, drive into that, put it in folders. You know, if you're really organized, do that. But I have so many people that are sending me emails to, to, to my, my, my work email. And I, I don't get to see client stuff, you know, sometimes because I'm buried in all this other stuff. So then I have to like purge it. And I've used a couple different AI tools to filter it out to kind of rise up to the top. Hey, these are the things I actually need to respond to. I think that, you know, people go look for a problem or a solution when they need it, okay? Now unless you make that connection with them, right? And you know, I mean, I've seen daily work great, right? People, you say monthly, I think bi, weekly, you know, or every other week, or even weekly, you know, if you can do daily if you want, if you want to have that kind of relationship with somebody, you know that that's what works best. But you can't put out junk, right? And so I think it's hard. I think the reason that people don't do emails. And here, here's something I do want to say to, to kind of strengthen what, what you're doing. I, I went to a SEO conference not too long ago, and they listed all the different channels that drive conversions, and still today, emails. Number one conversion is emails, okay? And people keep saying emails are dead, but people keep the same email on average for 8 years. To your point, I think if your open rates are getting killed, you might want to unsubscribe people. Like, you want to have this big list, but, like, it's almost like YouTube shorts. Like, the reason they do so well is because the algorithm is made, because people are watching the whole thing. Like, you know, and so if you're sending emails to people and people are not open, it does hurt your open rates. It does. It does hurt your deliverability, and it's not super helpful. But you got a big email list. I think it's about segmenting out the list, you know, and sending the right information to the right person. But you gotta, you gotta set it up like, like having triggers on different pages, right? Like, hey, you're interested in this? Would you like to subscribe this newsletter? You know, I love those newsletters where you can check the box of the things you actually want to hear about versus not, right. Yeah, it's usually actually for a certain time period, you're trying to solve something, you're trying to get answers. Something. Yes, it's relevant and it's relevant and then. And then it. And then it changes. It just depends, right? I mean, how do you. How do you. When you're approaching clients and you're looking at their marketing and, you know, where do you decide in that mix that, hey, I think we need to implement emails. And then on the far end of it, because I know I want to talk about personal branding some more. Like what, like, are you. Are you doing. Let's establish the personal brand, the voice, the look first, and then are you moving into emails or how are you approaching new. New clients? Like a doctor or something like that? That's probably just doing a bunch of random stuff. That's what I see a lot of people doing. They're just doing a Bunch of random stuff. They don't really know what they're doing. They're not tracking anything. They think they're doing stuff. They're spending a bunch on AdWords. It's just stealing their money.
- [20:14]
B
They're spending a bunch on everything. Random tech people. I mean, all these things. 25 agencies that aren't talking to each other.
- [20:21]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [20:24]
B
All this stuff I always go back to, it's so boring. It feels like a broken record. But like a VIP day strategy, like, what is the strategy? Because your local practice, maybe you have 10 people who are totally down to like, do Instagram reels every day and you're going to have this massive social media presence. Or you might have people. I have, I have a client who said her practice, like, nobody's gonna do social media. She's like, none of those doctors are going to do it. If she's not going to do it, they're not going to do it. So we need a different strategy. But I do always want people to consider the full funnel and understand one, marketing and sales are not the same. We used to live in a world where your B minus marketing could make some sales. We do not live in that world anymore. You need marketing and you need sales and you need them to work together. And to just expect your social media or even your email to drive enough revenue for your company is outrageous in today's market. So, like, you have to just be a piece. You're going to need to learn sales, you're going to need a sales process, you're going to need a pipeline, you're going to need to talk to people like, this is the reality we live in. But then when you look at your marketing, you need a funnel. So what is the way that you're getting in front of new audiences? Is it ads? Is it podcast guesting? Is it speaking? Is it all of those things? It could be all of those things. That's awesome. Is, does part of your social media strategy have ways that you're getting out in front of the new audience? Because you do create content differently if you want to attract new people versus nurture people. And typically people do one or the other. They're just nurturing the same people over and over again. Or they're chasing new clients, new followers so much on social that they're not actually establishing themselves as a. As an expert. They're just sort of like that person you watch on Instagram all the time. But I'm never going to pay for anything from you. So you need to have a strategy that gets you in front of new audiences, that nurtures current followers. It shows them that you are legit, that you are trustworthy, that you can get results, and that they like you, like that they want to work with you. That if they have 25 agencies to choose from, you're the cool one that they want to be with because they like you better. Like, you have to do all of that in your content, which is a different strategy than just getting in front of new audiences. So you have to account for both of those things in your strategy. You have to have a way to get in front of new people. You also have to have a way to nurture current people, and then you have to have a way to convert people. So where I look at email, there's twofold, right? So I see them. Number one, get your email list started the day you start anything. I have seen too many people's accounts gone. Like, gone. You own nothing. People say this all the time on social media. I have seen so many accounts shut down for no reason. Like, no reason. It's because there's AI bots who are like, oh, you said a word that we think maybe might be wrong, and they'll shut you down. And some people get them back and some people don't. So you don't own it. And you could have 2 million followers that are gone tomorrow. So email list to me is like priority number one, because at least you have an avenue to get to those people. So I never tell people to wait. But your email strategy should do two things. It should nurture people who've already raised their hand. They've already said, there's something you offered that I like. Even if it's just a free lead magnet. It's not like we're so we're getting married yet. Maybe you just, like, winked at me at a bar, but whatever. Like, it's enough to say, like, sort of interested. And so we've got to nurture them into more of a relationship with us. And then I do think you can use it for sales. There's this, you know, especially if you sell something low ticket, it's definitely something you can use to drive low ticket sales. I do that all the time. Once a month, I do something in my email strategy to sell something that's under $500. But if you sell high ticket, you have an agency or you have, you know, a home services business or something like that, you just get it to book calls, right? Like, the whole goal is, hey, I need to get more sales calls. Because we know Marketing and sales are different and I need both. So I'm going to use it to assist my sales process and say, hey, book a call with my team if you want to talk about solving XYZ problem and we will get you set up on a good plan that makes sense for what you need. So email to me is both of those things. It's both nurturing and selling. Social media should be getting in front of new people and then nurturing those people into a deeper commitment of like getting on your email list or attending a workshop or getting on a sales call for your business and how you sell. So I think they go hand in hand. Start your email list immediately because tomorrow morning you wake up and your Instagram's gone. Your TikTok we all saw, everybody woke up one day and was like, oh, TikTok's going away. All of it can be gone. I've seen people's websites wiped out, their whole website wiped out. So like you don't own, you do technically own your website, but stuff goes wrong. So build your email list and then make sure that you have a strategy for getting in front of new people, nurturing people, and then getting people into sales conversations. All of that sits on the foundation of your positioning, your messaging. Do not do any of those things if you are not clear on your positioning and your messaging because otherwise you are throwing spaghetti to wall. And again, like that used to be fine. Three years ago you could have done that and it was fine. Now people don't trust you. Even when you are super legit, they still don't trust you. You have to have consistency in your message. You have to have a real plan and you need to be able to build trust. And every time you create content that doesn't provide value, that wastes someone's time, that looks viral and cool but undermines your expertise, you're actually telling them not to trust you. You're telling them you're not for real. It's working against your brand. So you actually want to be really intentional about what you create.
- [26:07]
A
Yeah, I mean I can tell you learning to sell and then moving into marketing gave me a huge advantage because I feel like, like marketing is selling online. Right. And you're like kind of selling, selling through that, that messaging component. I, I am curious for from you and, and I actually have another podcast that that's focused on like heavy, heavy industrial and oil and gas and, and it's actually a, a 30 year veteran in sales and marketing. So we talk about how marketing and sales really work together and I think it's, I think it's really critical for, for businesses today to say, okay, a marketing qualified lead, a sales qualif, a sales qualified lead are, should, should be very similar. They should be the same thing. They should work together. They shouldn't be siloed, especially when you get into the bigger organizations. My question for you is, okay, I hear it. You need to have an email. You need to be sending out emails. So anybody listening to this, if you're not sending out emails, let it put a fire under you. You need to be sending emails. Get started with that. You also need to have a strategy, right? You need to have a strategy. You need to know what your voice is. So let's talk about that for a minute. If you're meeting with a client and you, you said earlier, a lot of people, you know, they just have a message, but they don't have a voice. Right? They have a message, they have a call to action. You know, they're trying to get someone to do something, but they don't have a voice. What's the framework that you use to help them? Like, I don't know if it's a workshop, like, whatever, but, like, what is the methodology you use to help them build who they are? Because I think a lot of people have a really hard time figuring out themselves. Like, they can look at other people, hey, that, that dress doesn't look good on you or, you know, whatever, you need to do this or you need to do that. But when you, when you, you look at yourself, it's very difficult to, to figure that component out. So, you know, is there a framework that people can use to try to assess this if they're listening to this podcast and they could go, hey, I need to ask the, I need to ask these questions to myself where I need to do these things to start moving in that direction?
- [28:25]
B
Yeah. So we have specific. Like, there's not a framework that I think people are good at doing themselves. So if I were taking on a new client, I would look at, you know, I'm looking at, are they more formal or informal? Are they like your best friend or are they like the go to authority? Are they like direct and in your face or are they sort of like that, hey, girl, like, what's the, what's the vibe? Because they, they're. They're going to naturally create something. I always look at content that they've naturally created and written themselves. So maybe they're coming to me with emails they've written. Maybe it's social media posts Maybe they've got a podcast or a YouTube channel. Um, but they have their own style for speaking. Typically, people don't self identify well, though you kind of mentioned that. So when you're doing it for yourself, it's kind of hard because you're going to think, oh, like I. I come up, I communicate really directly and like an expert. And I'm like, actually, you're, like, very soft and kind of beating around the bush a little bit and using too many words. And it's like, you know, people don't really see themselves very clearly, especially because we. Everybody kind of has their own weird stuff around writing. A lot of people think they're not good writers, and so they look at their writing through this very different lens. They might be very casual and informal in how they speak and how they present. And then you look at their emails and they're like, textbook, you know, like some teachers grading it somewhere. So I like to kind of get people to, you know, can I look at your videos? Can I listen to your podcast? Can I, like, have conversations with you to get a vibe for it? But then the test that you can do, whether you're writing it yourself or getting writing from someone else or even ChatGPT, is once you've done your edits, give it to two or three people who really know you well. Your spouse, your best friend, your sister, your brother, and say, does this sound like me? Because typically they're going to be better at that than you are. They're going to be like, you would never say this because you write in ways you don't always talk, and you think, oh, I'm doing business and so I have to talk really businessy, and so I'm going to write really businessy. Whereas they know you and they're like, you would never say that. Like, that's so weird. Why would you say it that way? So it's got to kind of pass, like I say, like the husband test or the best friend test, where they wouldn't call you out on sounding fake. If your closest people in your inner circle would say, like, that's. This is not like you. That's fake, then it's no good. And the thing I always go back to when I was first starting copywriting or for someone now who runs like, it's like $100 million fitness company. And she said she gave the email, started to her husband. He was looking at them. For some reason, he had no clue it wasn't her that was writing it. So I was like, okay. Then we hit the nail on the head. That means I did a good job. If your husband couldn't tell it wasn't you, then we're good to go. So it really needs to be passed through like somebody who's got like a good BS radar so that they can say yes or no. This sounds like you. You can ask yourself all kinds of questions. Am I formal or informal? Am I more friendly or am I more authority? But like I said, typically you're not going to, like, self identify well because you have an idea in your head of what you think you should be versus what you really are. And you should really just be what you really are and stop trying to be something else because people will like that. So some people, some people won't like it. And that's okay because you're not for everybody. That's what, that's why personal brands are so powerful. They deter people, but they also attract people. And you know, look at every. You could look at everything, entertainment world, politics. Like, people repel and attract so strongly based on personalities. So, yeah, there's a lot of people who won't like you. They would be terrible clients for you. So if they, they don't like you, they're not going to be a good client for you. But there will be people who just love you and they're like, oh, my gosh, that's my person that I want to do this with. So don't try to be something you're not. I don't know if that really answered.
- [32:24]
A
The question, but yeah, yeah, no, no, I, I would love to go back to. You talked about a sales funnel. Okay. And sales funnel was a really hot buzzword many years ago. And you know, I can go so many different directions with sales funnel, but everybody kind of has a different definition of what a sales funnel is. So I wanted to hear from you over the years of experience that, that you developed what is a sales funnel to you? And what is. What does that framework look like? Right. So we talked about social media. You got your website, you got emails like, you know, that's a sales funnel. Boom, that's a sales funnel. If you were to give me like the abridged. I don't know if that's the long version. Is that right? Abridged? The long version, yeah. Unabridged. I don't know. But like, give me the long definition of what a complex, fully built sales funnel is. And, and okay, you start with the email or you start with the strategy and the personal brand. You have the email. What, what would be the Layers that you would add to it.
- [33:31]
B
In your opinion, in best case scenario, you have all the money and all the time in the world. Like so you could spend as much you can dedicate your whole life to building this. To me, a sales funnel is like old. I don't think it's a software, it's not a click funnels, nothing like that. It is prospecting, nurturing, converting. That's a sales funnel. You're finding people who want what you. You sell, you are nurturing them via relationship, you are selling to them and then it kind of circles back around where they refer you. And so there's kind of like a reverse sales funnel right on the back end. If I had to say, hey, if you gave me like unlimited budget, unlimited time, how would I build it? I would have you running ads. So ads that when we do layers of ads, brand building ads where we're just informational videos, inspiring videos, we are literally just running ads. So people see your face repeatedly talking about stuff so that they're like, oh, I like that person. And they might follow or they might watch your next video. And then there's a sense of familiarity. You're reading. So just brand building that I would run ads that are list building where they're opting in to get on your email. Then I would have you on every social media platform, all of them. Ideally, you have at least one post a day on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. If you still have the TikTok app and you can still post on it, I'd put you there. I put you on X. I'd put you everywhere. So you have your ads, you have your social. We already talked about getting your emails out. I like two emails a week. Ideally, this gives you room to nurture and provide value at least once with no ask. And then you can make an ask on the other day if you want to. So I like to, I like one to be like a good meaty, like, I can't wait to open this. I can't get this content anywhere else. It's so good, I love it. So that's happening there. I would also have, if I got a dream, dream world, I could do everything. I would have YouTube, I would have podcasts because that builds connection with people in a, in a deeper way. Google did a study that it takes people seven hours of consuming your content 11 different times and in four different different locations. So when you think about how do I get someone to consume my content for seven hours? Podcasts and YouTube is a great way to do that. So I love having those happening in the background. Those are brand builders. People think they're going to immediately make money from their podcasts. They're building your brand. Eventually, over time, it will convert, but it's a long game. I would have you write books if I have the dream because that also gets you on stages and then ultimately have some sort of dialed in sales mechanism. So this is really dependent on what you do. So in our world, a lot of people are doing online launches where they are doing like live streams for a week and selling something online. If you're in like a home services or local business type of deal, it's probably just booking visits or calls or getting people in your gym. Like you're getting people to come walk in the door. So you're doing like a free, free trial, that type of thing. And then of course, sales takes over. They fill their pipeline with qualified leads and then they follow up with those leads until they say, absolutely not or they die. And then you don't. Then you can move on. You can't move on until then. And then once you get the sale, you ask for the referrals. To me, if you're saying, how do I build a sales funnel? That's a sales funnel to me.
- [36:52]
A
So no, I love it. I love it. I think that there's a lot of agency owners out there. There's a lot of business owners out there that are now stressed out and they're like, I need to do all this stuff. I already kind of knew that. Like, okay, how do I do that? I think the, the one thing that I think you, I would like for you to answer, because I think it would benefit everybody, is they're probably thinking, how do I post once a day on social media, right? Like, and on all these different channels now there's tools that you can syndicate stuff out, but then there's different kind of tweaks that you need to make on different platforms because of the experience that people are having. But a post on a different platform every single day, people are like, I don't even know what to talk about. Like, what, what would be your answer to that?
- [37:39]
B
Okay, first to. I want to say that I understand that's overwhelming. This is why agencies charge so much money. I think people really underestimate what marketing requires. I think they look at people like Gary Vee or they look at Alex Hermos and they say, I want to do that. Gary Vee spends $3 million a year on his team. $3 million a year on his team. Alex Hormozi just did a video about how he spent 4 million. So you want to build those brands. It takes a lot of moving parts, I think when you look at how do you create content consistently? I wish I had some Magic Easy button. I wish I was like, here, I would be a bajillionaire if I had a magic Easy button. And everyone's selling you a magic Easy button and they're lying because I can tell you there's no way to get around it. You can use AI, there's lots of video editing tools. You can hire some teenager who probably knows social media better than you and can come and film all this stuff. But at the end of the day, it's still your personal brand and your ip. There's no escaping that. I've had so many people come to me and I've said, hey, we're going to build a strategy. We're going to write the emails or the social media posts. We're going to do it all. I'm giving you a topic, I'm giving you a hook. But guess what? I still need you to film the video. We're going to edit it, we're going to write the caption. I still, we don't even need videos. Sometimes we're like, hey, just send us a voice memo on your ideas, your thoughts on these topics. And you'd be surprised. Many people push back and say, can't you just write it? Sure. Well, then that's my intellectual property. That's not yours. And so there isn't a way to get around that. Which means you have to.
- [39:16]
A
Yeah. So here, I'll tell you something that it's scary, okay? But it's common, okay? You can use like 11 labs. There's, there's other tools that you can use where you can talk for three hours, okay. And you use different conviction in your voice. Right. And then, you know, you can even create an avatar, right. Of yourself and you can give it to it. And that's where I think it's going. Like, I think it's, it's coming quick and you're going to be able that the people that don't want to talk or get on camera or whatever, like that's going to be an option to be able to, okay, read this thing for an hour. We'll use your voice, we'll create it, we'll do it. You know, I, I don't know. That's, that's where I think it's going to go at some point now, I, I, I don't know how People are going to respond to that. I think early on it's going to be very novel. But when everybody's doing that, I think that the pendulum might swing the other way. But, but I mean, it. It's all coming and like, you're not even going to know what's real. And, and I think that even people think that with the news today is like, what is real? And, and they find a trusted source and they're like, all right, you know, whoever you, you listen to the news. I'm not going to say any news things to, to, to spin anybody one way or another. But, but, but pick your person and you listen to them, and whatever they say is gospel, right? Like, whatever they say is fact. And that's where I think people are going, right? And then you got to get. Then you got to go, okay. Like, there's also on YouTube's Getting Crazy with, like, you know, faceless videos and people are taking other people's stuff and then it's being changed and you're like, okay, I got to find. I. I got to find the source to make sure that this is actually what's being said. Like, this is the world that we're living in. It's. It's going to be insane, you know?
- [41:08]
B
Yeah. I think, though, that's where your personal convictions come in. I can tell you that there's no video platform that's creating human videos that looks human. Yet do I think it will get there? I do. The rate at which things are moving, it's like, very rapidly going to happen. I do agree with you on that, but that's like, where your personal convictions come in. Like, I believe, like, we are uniquely created by God that can't be replaced. And so for me, I will never be okay with any sort of representation of me. That's not me I want. If I'm talking to you, I'm going to be talking to you. If, if I'm in my. If you're getting a message from me, it will be me. Now, that does not mean that I won't use chat GPT for things again. I have enough skill where I can make chat GPT work and I can make it work effectively, but it's still my ideas, right? So at the end, I could go in right now and type in some random thing, right? Like write a post about, you know, three ways to improve your email marketing. But I have my own thoughts. Like, I have my own experience. And how I talk about email marketing might be different. How that you would teach it and that we could both be right. But I'm going to say it this way because this is my experience. And that's where the nuance comes, that as the world shifts into that, when you can maintain your humanity amidst all that, I think you'll win at levels that it's going to be new and exciting and sexy at first. And it has been. We see that. But then people, like, still crave people. This is why y'all. This is why people pay. Nike pays millions of dollars to athletes who become the face of their brand. They don't do that because it doesn't work. These companies don't spend billions of dollars on spokespeople because they don't work. They know that they have to connect a person, a face to the brand. It's also why you see these micro influencers killing it. They are crushing. Like, you are so much better off getting five micro influencers than you are Kardashian by far, because they trust the little mom who's got five kids who's showing the Amazon outfit 10 times more than they trust their Kardashian. So I think it's learning to use the tools to support humanity instead of replace it. And if you can use it to support it, you're going to win. If you use it for shortcuts, you might win initially, but then people will start to lose trust.
- [43:35]
A
Yeah, no, I love that. I think that's why Google actually added to their EAT framework the experience component, because they saw the rise of AI and they're like, okay, we want the genuine experiences for SEO. Like, hey, I got to hold the product. I got to. I got to. Okay. If I'm talking about travel, you got to be in the location. Like, there's things to provide that. That, that real proof. So. So we're getting close to time here. We've covered a lot. I'm super excited about the conversation and what, what, where we've gone and what we've talked about. I would like to know from you what is one unknown, maybe underused Internet marketing secret that maybe we. We didn't cover? Or if you want to repackage something that we talked about, I would love to hear what is one unknown Internet marketing secret?
- [44:29]
B
I think the secret is that there's no easy button. Marketing has 1 million layers. And as much as you want it to be cut and dry, straightforward hit, hit it out of the park every time. It's. That's not how it is. And. And anyone who tells you that is lying. That's the secret. Anyone who tells you there's one thing that works and everything else is dead. Or this one trick works all the time. That's all a lie. It's a series of understanding the buyer, communicating how you can provide the solution the buyer actually wants, and then testing, testing that message over and over and over again. As soon as something starts working, it's going to work for a few months and then you're going to change it again. So there is no secret. There's no magic. There's no, there's nothing you're missing. If it feels hard and complicated, it is kind of hard and complicated. And the secret is that the people telling you that it's not are probably lying.
- [45:25]
A
I love that. Thank you. Thank you very much. So, Danielle, how do people get in touch with you? If they want to hear more, they want to get on your newsletter, they want to engage you for services. Where's the best space for them to find you?
- [45:36]
B
Yeah, so where I spend the Most time is LinkedIn and you can find me Danielle Savalius on LinkedIn. I hate all the other social media platforms, so you can find me there. But I'll also give you a link to sign up for my newsletter. Every Saturday, I send a newsletter that is like a deep dive on personal branding. Email, LinkedIn copywriting. It is a full, like, tutorial style. I'm going to teach you something in that email, so definitely get on that list. It's free. And I'll, I'll put the link, I'll send you the link so you can put in the show notes.
- [46:09]
A
Awesome. Well, it was great to have you on. And until the next time, if you're looking to grow your business with the largest, most powerful tool on the planet, the Internet, you can reach out to EWR Digital for more revenue in your business. And also check out Danielle. And until the next time, my name is Matt Bertram. Bye bye for now.