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CEO Mindset & Strategy: The Proven Formula to Scale Your Business with Jason Moss
00:59:54
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- [00:01]
Matt Bertram
Howdy, Matt here. Hope you're doing well. I got a great podcast for you coming up. I actually just finished recording a podcast with Jason Moss. He's a online business coach. Helps. He's like a coach of coaches, I guess, and he helps a lot of different online businesses grow. And this was a special episode for me. I think I got a little vulnerable because I'm about to start my own journey in this regard and Jason was someone good to connect with. He has great content out there online. I encourage you to go check out his stuff. He has some frameworks that I like and do follow and he is very polished and comes from a very centered place. And I really hope you get a lot out of this podcast and enjoy. This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing, your insider guide to the strategies top marketers use to crush the competition. Ready to unlock your business full potential? Let's get started. Howdy. Welcome to another fun filled episode of the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. I am your host, Matt Bertram. Today we're going to talk about growing a business. And that's a little bit outside of my scope. Yes and no. Because, well, I can help you grow their marketing, I can help generate leads, I can help make sales. But there are a lot of different components of growing a business. Also there's a lot of people out there that are listening, that do have their own agency that might need some coaching. And I thought it would be a good idea to bring in a well known personal coach, Jason Moss, to talk about the CEO Freedom formula and how to basically help people unlock what's going on with them so that they can scale and grow. And as a lot of you know, I am going to be launching my own coaching program, group coaching program. And I said by the end of this month. So we are getting down to the wire here on what we need to do. And so, you know, we could also, Jason, as one of the top coaches, treat this as a live coaching session for me because, well, I put it all out there. I tell everybody where it's at. If they can take what I share and use it, I want them to be helpful. There is so much abundance in this world and I want everybody to win. So welcome.
- [02:35]
Jason Moss
Well, thank you so much for having me. And I appreciate, I just want to say your vulnerability in bringing people into that journey. So much of marketing today is about that. It's about storytelling, it's about sharing the uncomfortable process and journey of what you're going through. So it takes a lot of courage to do that. And I really admire you and respect you for bringing your audience into that as you're walking through the journey yourself.
- [02:58]
Matt Bertram
Well, thank you. I mean, it's all I got, right? Like, I only know as much as I know, and this process continues to grow me every day and every experience. And I think that that authenticity is what, what you have to have, and that's why people do business with people they know I can trust. And, and podcasting is a great way. Long form content is a great way for someone to connect with you on, on those terms. So I was actually just on a call before this with a podcast listener that was asking for some marketing advice and was happy to get on the call. And he's actually doing some awesome stuff and really excited for him. And I was like, hey, I'll, I'll, I'll hire you. We can, we. I could be your guinea pig, right? I'm, I'm definitely down to help people out and, you know, I am where I am, so I'm here, and I'm here with Jason Moss, so welcome.
- [03:53]
Jason Moss
Well, thank you. I appreciate it.
- [03:56]
Matt Bertram
Well, let's start with the CEO Freedom format, because that's one of the ways that I kind of had connected to your stuff, and I know you're well known for that, and I think it would help a lot of people to, to hear you explain it, not.
- [04:08]
Jason Moss
I. Yeah, for sure. We can definitely dive into that. So the CEO Freedom Formula is a, is a roadmap for scaling and growing a business. And it's a roadmap that I discovered through mentoring and coaching and working with over a thousand entrepreneurs in all different niches, everyone from solopreneurs, coaches, consultants, to folks running larger businesses. And I discovered it mostly through a lot of trial and error. And I spent the first few years of my journey as a coach very much focused on helping people with the external aspects of their business, which was the marketing strategy, the offers, the niche, all the things that most people come to, folks like you and me thinking that they need, and those things are very important. But what I started to see was that I would give two people the same strategy and they would get very different results. And one person would take that strategy and they'd go out and they double or triple their business. And one person would take the same tools and they'd end up exactly where they are today, you know, six months later. And it used to frustrate me as a coach for years. I was like, what am I missing? And what became clear to me over time in really studying the success of entrepreneurs and seeing what it was about was really this merging between the internal journey of entrepreneurship, mindset, identity, the internal side, and then the external side. And so the CEO Freedom Formula is really about bringing those two things together. And it's about recognizing that a business is partially about having the right strategy and partially about becoming the kind of person who can not only execute on that strategy, but also to be able to really hold the level of business that we're looking to create. So that's a high level of what it is. We can definitely dive into it. But there are these three pillars or steps of the CEO Freedom Formula. And you can think of this, again, as a roadmap that you can follow to be able to grow and scale your business. So I'll let you hop in and we can dive in.
- [06:12]
Matt Bertram
Okay, well, let's name the pillars, right? Like CEO Identity. Eliminate and create leverage, and then optimize your marketing. So can you speak to all three of those areas for me?
- [06:25]
Jason Moss
Yeah, let's do it. So CEO Identity is the first of these three steps, which I think is the most important piece. It's the piece that people aren't talking about enough because it doesn't sell. It's not sexy, it's not something you put on a sales page and people go, yes, I want to buy. But the truth is, and I've learned this myself, as someone who has been building online businesses for close to 20 years now, you know, there were. There were periods in my own journey where it would feel like I would really want to scale. Like I would be making six figures and I want to get to multiple six or seven, and I would have the desire to do it and I would go out and I'd find the right strategy and I'd hire the mentors. But it would feel like I would take one step forward and two steps back, and maybe I'd have a really great month, revenue wise. But then two months or three months later, I'd be right back where I was. And what I realized after years of kind of being in this holding pattern was that what I was trying to do was I was trying to build my next level of business from the previous self that got me to where I was. In other words, it was like I was trying to build a seven figure business from a six figure identity. And the beautiful thing about business is that the business that you have right now is a perfect reflection of who you are, the clients you serve, the problems you have, the level of revenue that you create. It's a mirror. So most entrepreneurs Sure. I mean, most entrepreneurs spend the majority of their time trying to fix and change the outside. It's like you wake up in the morning one day and you go in the bathroom, you look at yourself in the mirror and you're like, I don't really like what I see. So you grab a rag and you start cleaning your mirror and you're like, well, maybe the problem is the mirror. I'm like, no, no, no, the problem's not the mirror. The mirror is just showing you a reflection of you. So if you want what is in the mirror to change, you have to change yourself. So what CEO identity is, is it's taking this inside out view of business growth. And instead of asking the question first, what needs to change in the business, the question becomes, who do I need to become in order to hold this next level of revenue or this next stage or this next chapter? And so one very specific question I'll ask folks, and I live in this question every day, is, so for example, you say, let's say you want to build a seven figure business, it's okay, well, how would a seven figure business owner show up today? And you can ask that question every morning as like a centering exercise. You know, what decisions would a seven figure business owner make? How would a seven figure business owner approach the copy on the sales page? How would a seven figure business owner lead this sales call? And you start living in that identity and making decisions from that identity and that is what changes the outside. And that's what CEO identity is about.
- [09:15]
Matt Bertram
So let me, let me add to that. So I actually just read this book on the subconscious mind. It's like one of those 1950s, 1960 books that has the real meat in it that everybody's kind of watered down over time. And the, when I hear you talk, what I can hear going on in some people's heads and maybe it's gone on in my head in the past because, because like you said, it's very hard to explain, but if you're, and what is it? The law of attraction, all that kind of stuff, like I think it, I think it dances around that. But what it's saying is if you're in that mindset and you're trying to solve the next level of problems, you're going to act differently than what you're trying to solve right now. And I 100% agree with that mirror concept. And also I read this whole book cover to cover, highlighted it up, underline stuff. The subconscious mind is 9, 10 of the individual. So actually when we're awake. It's just grabbing new stimuli and processing. So when we go back to sleep, it helps to build that identity. So we're living what our subconscious mind is driving. Okay. And really what we're doing is we're just collecting all the stimuli to process who we are. And it changes your level of thinking. When you talked about centering, if you know who you are and how you're thinking, you solve problems in a different way, right? Like, you look at things in that next level of thinking of where you need to be, not where you're at. And so putting yourself around the right kind of mentors, the right kind of mastermind groups, the right kind of people that have that kind of thinking helps you operate on that wavelength. Right? And the more you can stay on that wavelength, the more you're going to continue to grow into that identity, because the whole, like, attract, like. And we can go down that rabbit hole, but it is so powerful, and I think it's. It is underserved. And a lot of people that become uber successful, they know that that's the most important thing. Where they need to spend their time and what they need to focus on is getting that right. And whether it's the mantras, the prayers, whatever it is that they're doing to set that tonality to help you accelerate in the direction you want to go. And also understanding where do you want to go. That's why, like, creating goals and listing goals, now you're orienting all your actions and behaviors to moving towards that.
- [11:48]
Jason Moss
Yeah, I love that. I love that. Love that you said that. And I love that. What's the name of the book, by the way?
- [11:54]
Matt Bertram
I'll dig it up after this. We can grab it, but it's. It's old school, and it was Russell Brunson. Okay. I went to one of his conferences, and he's super big on mindset, and so one of the speakers was talking about it, and I always like to, like, write down that stuff. And I have a collection of books, and I. I used to read, like, a book a day before I had kids now. And I also didn't used to drink coffee either, and those have kind of reversed. So not a book a day. Sorry. A book a week. I used to read about books.
- [12:20]
Jason Moss
I'm going to say a book a day is amazing.
- [12:22]
Matt Bertram
That's Tai Lopez. I'm not Tai Lopez, but no, I used to read about a book a week. My wife now actually got really upset. I was always carrying around a book, and I try to optimize in between. Like, anytime we waited to read something and I would highlight it up and then I would reread that stuff and I could reference where it was in the book. Right. But I couldn't remember what it said. And then I would, like, go use it as a dictionary in that regard. And my first book, Build, you'd Brand Mania, which was all about personal branding. But I was doing SEO, but I saw kind of where the market was going, is really a compilation of probably 300 books that I've written. And I was kind of putting together a lot of those nuggets. And as it was applying to my life, incorporating that into it and the subconscious mind piece, I've realized how important also that temperament is when you're going into a call, when you're coming out of a call, the things that take energy, the clients that take energy. Like, the one thing that I'm finding out and that I would recommend to people is the Pareto law of the 80:20 rule is absolutely incredibly true. And there's maybe one client that's taken up all your time, but it's not where your time should be going. And you got to be able to get to a place and empower yourself in the business to say, I don't need that business. There's better business out there for me. I need to let that go. And then that kind of leads into your. Your. Your next pillar of eliminate and leverage. Like I used to always say, automate, delegate, eliminate. And a guy that used to work for me definitely taught me that. And we're big on the automation phase at this point in time at our agency. But I would love to hear your definition from you in your own words, of eliminate and leverage.
- [14:14]
Jason Moss
Yeah, it was a beautiful segue into that. And I think the first thing to your point on Pareto's principle, the truth is, at least when I look at what. And I've mentored so many entrepreneurs, what I see is pretty common. And almost every entrepreneur out there is, when we look at their business, probably 50 to 60% or more of what they're doing in this moment just doesn't need to be done. And it's. It's a very common trap. And I've fallen into this many times, too. And I still, every few months I'll go through an exercise where I'll just look at everything that I'm doing. And it's just amazing to see how much clutter and how much complexity just builds up over time because there's this constant pulse pull towards more In a business, there's this constant temptation to add more, Add more channels, add more complexity, funnels, marketing. And so the first thing I think that becomes really important in this stage of the process is just to cut away the things that are either not producing results or to your point, are the 20% of the 80%, the things that are only producing a small amount of revenue, but are taking up and silently sucking the time. This is simplification. It's cutting down the offer structures. It's. It's reducing complexity and bloat around marketing channels. You really don't need to be in 10 different places at once. It's choosing, okay, what are the two, three, four strategic channels that I can show up on that are going to generate the most revenue in return? So it's, it's eliminate first. And I think the biggest mistake folks make here, and I've made this mistake too, is we jump to automation and delegation before we eliminate. So we end up building team. Like, I'll give you a great example of this a couple months ago. So we have a YouTube channel. And I publish a lot of YouTube content. And I had this idea and I've been, I've been paying video editors for years to edit our videos because my basic assumption was, okay, if we can create videos that are really flashy and really cut well and they're, they have high retention time, you know, YouTube's going to want to show them to more people. So I was paying thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars to these video editors. And I never stepped. And then I had someone on my team who I hired to actually review all of the edits from this video editor. And so I had two team members that I was hiring to do all this work. And I never stepped back and asked myself the question, is it actually true that highly edited videos are performing better than if I were to just record an uncut video and post it to my channel? So I did a little experiment and I recorded a couple of videos that were just me like this, talking on the camera with no editing, just uncut. And I posted them to the channel. And what I found was the retention time was not only exactly the same, it was actually better on the uncut videos. They got more visibility, people watched them for longer. So here was all this unnecessary complexity in the business, all this team, because I had jumped to delegation instead of just stepping back and asking myself, does this even need to be done in the first place?
- [17:28]
Matt Bertram
I totally agree with that. I have a similar story or experience. And certainly we like to as business owners, I think throw money at stuff and have it solve the problem without really understanding or hiring somebody to do something that I think it's really important to. Okay, so if you have all these channels, right? And even if it's four, get really good at one. Okay. And then scale up. Like, you need to really understand that channel and how the algorithm works and how it responds and what's going on. Because you can't base your assumptions on data that you don't know. Right. And you're looking at your business from the perspective or your marketing from the perspective of the. From the best seat. Right. Like, you know, the most potentially. Right. If you're the one that's the principal on whatever you're doing. And so I have many times like, okay, I'll give you an example. So we need to. This is an audio first podcast. I'm not big. We've done 700, 800 podcasts and they're all on itunes. Okay. We're not big on YouTube. I need to get big on YouTube. But we have been recording the videos, even going back a long ways. When I used to. I used to be a lot younger and I would always have a stick for every podcast we do. I had like a chicken on my head at one point. Like a chicken hat. Like all kinds of crazy stuff, right? And I would be in that Persona and I had a co host that, that founded the agency I'm at and, you know, PPC doctor. And I was like, the PPC doctor. And I would respond everything in that Persona. And it was hilarious for me. Like, I don't. I don't know what everybody else thought, but I totally enjoyed it and it was a ton of fun and. But we have all these videos and I hired a offshore team and put a bunch of stuff together and started having them cut stuff. And they made great cuts. Okay, they make great cuts. And it looked flashy and everything, but the content was like. The other day I read a book and that was it like. And that was what was cut. Like, you know what I mean? And so it was like, the strategy piece needs to come from you and you need to provide that direction and you need to train the people to do that. Because if you outsource your brand or your business or whatever to somebody else, right? Like, I think even on social media, I've done this. I think it's a disservice to the business to have somebody else do your social media before you do it. I think you gotta sweep the floor. You gotta, you know, you know, clean, take out the trash, do all the stuff, know how to do it, create an SOP and then give it to somebody to do it. And yeah, it might take longer, but you like, you got to tone out the noise, like you said, and do something right first and get that down and then train that in the next person and hand that off and always think, simplify the complexity, like just, you know, like, like I was saying, automate, delegate, eliminate. But if, if you don't train that person right, that person's coming at everything from a different perspective and you've outsourced your company or your brand to somebody else. And I can tell you, when we, as an agency, when we work with clients, we really need that client involvement. And what we find a lot of times is those clients don't. They've maybe got away from their core values, right? Like it's maybe on their website, but they don't live them anymore or the company's grown too much and the brand has changed. And so, like, I think getting that alignment going, even back to the first point, understanding that alignment of who you are and what you want to communicate to the world, because you could just communicate trash out there and just create a bunch of pollution, of noise of what's going out there. Like, you know, I'm not saying that you listening are doing this. I'm saying there are people doing that and it's getting a lot noisier with AI generated content. And so there's like a trust recession and people are trying to figure out, like, who do I trust? And I think, Jason, to your point, they knew it was all you, right? And they wanted to connect with you. And I've seen tests where it just, it depends who you're speaking to. Right. And it spends, like who that turkey Persona is and how you do it. But the thing that I know about what you said is it is you. And because it's you, the people that have, that have gained that trust of who you are and know I can trust you want that, want that content, like straight from the horse's mouth, unedited from you. And I guess the data tells the story that they saw that maybe, you know, I love that. Okay, let's talk about optimizing marketing. How do you look at optimizing marketing and how do you approach it?
- [22:38]
Jason Moss
Yeah, I love so much of what you just said, by the way. I mean, there's so much wisdom in there. There's just two pieces I want to touch on before.
- [22:44]
Matt Bertram
Yeah, do it, do it.
- [22:45]
Jason Moss
Highlight back to Your listeners. I think there's a, what you spoke to is the difference between delegating and abdicating. And I think there's a really important distinction there. Delegating is I know how to do something myself. We've been able to create success internally and this is no longer the highest leverage use of our time. So we're going to build an empower team to be able to take this thing off my plate so I can move up the value ladder. Abdication is. I don't understand this. I haven't been able to figure it out and I'm looking for somebody else to save me from something that I haven't figured out, how to master myself. And that is a really important distinction. Delegation, useful. As an entrepreneur, abdication can get you in a lot of trouble. So I love what you just said there because it's so, so spot on.
- [23:30]
Matt Bertram
And it's one of the type companies. Yeah, I get in trouble at home. I'm like, somebody else can mow the lawn, right? Or like, I know how to mow the lawn and I know if. What, what is done right. If it's good or not. Right. Like, you got to know what good looks like and I think that's really important. But like getting to the point where you're creating the most value, like, how are you saying it? Like, up the value ladder, I think is super important. And I think that I've seen a lot of companies come to us and I've, I've done it personally. Like, I'll look in the mirror and admit it. Like, there are like digital marketing, if we talk about, as we get into optimizing marketing, I'm not an expert at everything. Okay. Like, I can't. Like there are people out there that are fantastic at email automation. Like, I can touch it. I can go pretty deep. I understand the concepts. I actually think there's an old training that I was doing on it online. But there are people that know so much more than me. I about that. Like, I'm really good and deep in certain areas and so I try to bring people around me that have that experience. But I can tell you in the past if there's a problem, and I've seen it with a lot of entrepreneurs or business owners, they have a problem in their business and they just want you to fix it. They just want to pay you to fix it and make the problem go away. With not understanding that we're treating potentially symptoms of like you're saying, of the root issue. Right. So it's like Are you really delegating it or are you abdicating it? Like, what do you actually want to happen? What is the problem of why your customer service is doing xyz? Is it because what, like, is it like, I mean, I'm not saying it's a bad product, like, but like, you know, like, what is the symptom of whatever it is that you're doing to cause these things to happen? You got to know what those are. And I think knowing what good look like and then delegating that out is where it starts and, you know, finding an expert to help assess that. So I think people also want to move quickly, right? They want to, I need this fixed, I need it fixed now. And if you don't diagnose what that issue with the audit or some kind of workshop or strategy work, and you just jump into, well, I just need to hire another agency to do my marketing, right? Because that's what we get. We get a lot of calls. People are calling, hey, I like, I'm. This other agency doesn't, well, what are you doing? What was their current strategy? What was happening? And if they're talking about SEO, I'm like, I don't even see any indication online of a digital footprint that SEO is happening. Is that truly what they're doing? So I'm like, can you explain to me in your ad campaign or whatever it was, what is happening to understand, can we pick it up and carry it forward? Do we have to start over? But I found a lot of businesses just advocate their marketing and then they go, this is not working. And then they're like picking up another agency and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's figure out what's happening first and then figure out the right strategy. And that strategy might be more of the same. It might be more or less. I'll tell you one quick story. Sorry, this is a great conversation. I'm looking in the mirror here myself is I had a client that was a big plumbing company and they came to me for a PPC audit and they brought in their in person agency and actually a third party agency and the owner. And we sat down and we were doing a PPC audit. And halfway through the audit, like it was an in person audit and I was like, you really need to rank SEO wise for Plummer Houston because you're in position seven and that's where all your traffic's gonna come and what you're spending on ads. Like, you just need to focus on that. And everybody's like, oh, yeah, we need to do that. I was like, well, then why don't you just do that? And that actually turned into opportunity for us. That was, how much is it going to cost? And he like, wanted a number. And so it was like kind of a pay for performance deal. But. And we, we hit it. But it's, we looked at where he was spending his money and even I have another client right now that's spending money on paid ads and the PPC scores getting so high. I'm like, we need to do billboards. Like, I'm like, we need to do billboards. Like, you're spending enough. Like, we need to get that brand out there and get through the noise and this industry's oversaturated and you, you got to change. Like, you can't do more of the same. So go ahead. Sorry. I'm sorry, I'm just, I'm flowing here on. I'm thinking out loud. So sorry.
- [28:13]
Jason Moss
I love it. And I think diagnosing the root problem. I think it was Albert Einstein that once said, if you gave me an hour to solve a problem, I would spend 50 minutes just defining what the problem actually is and 10 minutes solving it. Whereas most as entrepreneurs is like, we want to, we want to jump to solutions before we even understand the problem. So you mentioned optimizing your marketing. This is the third piece of the CEO Freedom formula, because I think for most entrepreneurs, marketing is the biggest bottleneck. So when we look at what it actually takes to scale a business, it's how do we get more leads in the door? How do we make the most of those leads? This is obviously what you do every day. So there's a couple different pieces that I look at in this, and I think at its core, what it's about is this tension and this balance between leverage and intimacy in terms of marketing.
- [29:01]
Matt Bertram
I like it.
- [29:01]
Jason Moss
Which I've been thinking a lot, quite, quite a bit about lately in the conversation around AI, leading a lot of workshops around this and talking about how AI is changing marketing. I'm sure this is something you've been talking a lot about too. And so we have a world where anyone can go into ChatGPT, churn out content at scale, and what's the thing that's going to stand out. It's personal brand, it's storytelling, it's vulnerability. Which is one of the reasons why I so deeply appreciate how you've been bringing yourself into the narrative in this podcast. Because people want to do business with people they know like, and trust. And so the more we can bring ourselves to the table in marketing, the more and the deeper those connections are going to be. So the days of just having this faceless company where you can just churn out generic how to tips content, those days are behind us. And the types of businesses that are able to integrate intimacy strategically. And to me intimacy means it's, it's a combination of bringing you fully into your marketing. So it's, it's, it's. Rather than having this faceless personal thing or impersonal thing, it's bringing the personal brand fully to the forefront of the business and letting people connect first with who you are as a primary touch point and also conversation and community. And there's aspects of personal one to one type stuff that doesn't scale that I think can really provide a lot of differentiation in your marketing. So this could be texting people one to one and reaching out to them in a very non leveraged way. Like the part of you that's going to be like, well I shouldn't be doing this because it doesn't scale. Like doing more things that don't scale is, is. I've been having a lot of conversations about that. So that's on the intimacy side of things. And I think it's looking at how we can strategically integrate intimacy into the marketing model. And on the other hand it's leverage which is how do we basically make it so that you can communicate with more people at once without being in the weeds. And this is, the tension between these two things is really what marketing is about. You know, when I first got started as a business coach and what most people do when they first start their business is a lot of what drives initial sales is intimacy. It's NETworking, it's having one to one conversations over the DMs. It's all the stuff that people tell you you're crazy to do when you're scaling a business because it doesn't scale. So that stuff's important, we don't want to lose that. But it's being able to integrate more leveraged forms of communication so that you can scale your impact and your reach through, through things like content, through things like being able to communicate one to many instead of one to one and being able to find the right balance and tension between those two things is I think really what optimizing marketing is about.
- [31:55]
Matt Bertram
I love that the intimacy piece and the personalization with the leverage. I mean I am fearful that we're moving to a world where you're going to ask ChatGPT to send me a pizza, right? And like you want them to say send me a Domino's pizza, you know, or whatever. And Gary, Gary Vaynerchuk has been talking a lot about this. Like you have to build that brand, right? Or it's gonna, it's gonna change. Right? I think everything's changing. I think the people also ask things to know. The enriched search and Google is something I deal a lot with and I think those things are really, really important. But they don't even have to go to your website to get those answers. Okay. They can just get in the AI overviews. Right. And I think it's something like 41% of traffic's down today. Okay. So like if they're referencing you want a citation that you, your name or your company provided that information, right? Because now you can't track that. You don't even know that people are looking at it. And so there's a lot of that you have to do with your marketing. I think that, that personalization piece, I think people try to over optimize that to your point. Because like, look at LinkedIn. LinkedIn's really noisy and the automations and the personalizations getting smarter. But it's getting to the point where the one to many needs to happen, but there needs to be some authenticity to it and you need to make sure it's good. I think good marketing is what needs to happen. I think the pendulum is swinging fast. Marketing, get it out there, get in front of it, optimize for it. But you can't optimize something that's not good.
- [33:56]
Jason Moss
Good.
- [33:57]
Matt Bertram
Right. Or you need to get back to the core. And that's why I love your CEO freedom format and why it resonated with me when I heard it is it's bringing you back to the center you're really focused on what do you need to do in that right frame of mind. And I love that. I think that personalization and the automation, it's that balance and I love that word tension. I think it really speaks to what people are doing. So let's transition the conversation outside of that and why don't you share some case studies or things that I know you've helped a lot of different kind of coaches and there's kind of different people that are your target Persona. Let's speak to those people that are listening on some of the things you've done and maybe share with them how you've helped them.
- [34:49]
Jason Moss
Yeah, for sure. I mean, so I work mostly with coaches, consultants and service providers that are running online businesses. Folks who are around that six figure mark and scaling. I think a client Megan that I work with a while back, Megan, when I first met her, she was running a successful agency actually as a virtual assistant agency. And she was running a coaching business in addition to that on the side side and was working like 80 hours a week. Her coaching business was not generating much revenue and she had been on like a hundred sales calls I think at that point. And nothing was, it was like, it was like what am I doing here? Like she hired some coaches. Things weren't, weren't fully landing for her. We worked together for about a year first in a group program that I was running a while back that we are no longer actually running. And then she transitioned into one to one with me. And there were a couple of different areas we worked on. I think the first piece was from a marketing perspective. A lot of it was to your point on authenticity is like how do we communicate in a way that feels human? I think so much of maybe you can relate to this. But so much of my journey through marketing has been unlearning all of these weird ways of like things that marketers say you have to do online, like when you're speaking to people. It's like I try to remember this when I communicate. I ask myself this question all the time. How would I say this if I were talking to you in person? That's the question that I use to guide everything that I create, every email I write, every sales page I create. And so one of the things we did was we looked at her marketing and we looked at all the weird salesy like stuff that you would see in some script online type of communication, but stuff that it was pulling her away from having authentic real dialogue with her audience and with her people. And so we shifted that piece that really dramatically changed things for her. And then in addition to that, we moved her into a more leveraged way to the point around how do we create more leverage. She was doing mostly one to one coaching at that time. She launched a group program. We transitioned into a more leveraged way of delivery around her offer so she could serve more clients without spending more of her time. She went from that place to making over $260,000 a year in sales and about a little over a year. So this was like 20x growth or something. And she actually cut her hours in half while doing that. And this is one of the reasons why I love this, this, this formula because it's, it's, it's not just about business growth but it's how do we do this in a way that's sustainable, in a way that allows you to enjoy your life and not feel like you're working 80 hours a week. So that's one example of many clients we've worked with, but hopefully should be cool to hear what's possible for folks who are listening.
- [37:47]
Matt Bertram
I think that that's dead on. I came from the sales side of the business, right? So I was always like a salesperson. And I have absolutely seen that when you speak to, like, through your copy, to another person, right? Like, you're not just putting kind of marketing speak, but you think of, like, okay, I'm writing this for Matt, or I'm writing this for Jason. Like, this is who I'm trying to reach. And imagine that as you're writing it. And like, you know, when you read copy on a website, you're like, they're talking to me, right? That this person's talking to me, and it's resonating with me and. And I feel connected to whatever it is that's being said. That's the difference and that's the magic, right, of the Internet, is you can reach all these people through that aspect of it. And the other point that you made on the group coaching, like, I just don't think that it's feasible from a, you know, hourly rate that people could, like, I'm watching the group coaching to help the people that can't afford our services, right? And so not create, like, another revenue stream in that regard. But, like, our goal is to help one is Billy. One million businesses grow, right? That's, like, through. Wow. Internet marketing. That was, like, our goal 26 years ago, right? And so that's why we started the podcast is to. To. To help people and to. To share stuff with people. And, you know, there's a big gap there between people listening, right. To what we're saying. But then, like, how does it apply to me? And how does it apply to my. My situation, and then, like, done for you services sort of thing is like, the other end of it. So I have. I have this big gap there that. That. That I would. I think there's a need there, and I would like to fill that for. For my audience. For you listening. Y' all are my audience. See, I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to Jason, and I'm talking in general, and it's not connecting. You see how important that is? Like, you gotta talk to who you're speaking to, right? And so we got. It would be Great, Jason. To have another, like, camera facing like, like another, like a group of people watching, you know, Like, I feel like it's very hard to do video recordings, like you're talking about YouTube when you don't have somebody else on the other line. Like, I can talk to you and we can have a conversation, but when I'm just talking to, like, a cold microphone and trying to speak to somebody, that. That is something. When people start getting into creating content that they don't prepare you for, that you have. That's a learned skill, right there.
- [40:36]
Jason Moss
It is, yeah. I mean, I always imagine, like, the camera is a specific person and I just, in my mind, I just picture a person that I'm speaking to because it's true. You're always. And the beautiful thing about even podcasts is, like, this is a. This is a small tweak that will actually create a lot more intimacy. Sometimes folks in content, they'll say. They'll say you all. Or it's like we're talking to a room. I'm like, no, no, no, you. It's like you think about the person listening to this podcast. Right now, you're listening to this. Like, I'm speaking to you directly. It's one person. You and I are having a conversation. Like there's one person on the other side of the line. So there's a certain level of intimacy around being able to communicate in that way through a sales page or an email. It's a one to one connection point with somebody else, and it changes the way a message is perceived when it's not directed to a room, but it's directed to an individual.
- [41:29]
Matt Bertram
Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. I love this wisdom. So you got another case study you want to share of, like, somebody you helped and, like, kind of walk through that?
- [41:38]
Jason Moss
Yeah, I'm thinking of a client, Zach, actually. So Zach is a super successful mindset coach working with, like, high, high performance athletes and folks who are like CEOs, folks who are like, definitely top of the game. I met him when, when. And I think he'd be okay with me saying, I love you, Zach, if you're listening. So Zach, I would say, was probably in a very, like, willful stage of business. And when I say willful, I mean more like grind, hustle, kind of doing it, doing everything. Like, and oftentimes what I feel like I'm doing with entrepreneurs is how can we transition out of that willful way of.
- [42:18]
Matt Bertram
David Goggins. David Goggins.
- [42:20]
Jason Moss
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. To more of a first, it's the transition from willful to intellectual, which is more of a strategic way of operating. It's working smarter rather than working harder. And then on a deeper level, it's actually strategic to intuitive, which is a more intuitively way run way way of running a business where it's not so intellectual. It's more like what feels aligned in this moment. What offer feels, feels right to be expressed in the world. So there are these moves that entrepreneurs will often make from willful to intellectual to intuitive, as entrepreneurs progress and grow. And so a lot of what we did on an internal level was making that shift externally. What happened was the business 4x in revenue over the course of about a year. And he started. What he would say is he started working with much more aligned clients, like folks that he would really enjoy working with on a lot deeper level. And part of that was just folks being able to experience his energy more because he wasn't so much in the grind that he was just pumping content out. And there's a different energy to content that's expressed and created from that deeper place that tends to magnetize clients differently and attract clients differently. So we definitely go into that on deeper level. But those were some of the shifts that we help.
- [43:49]
Matt Bertram
Could you go into those four areas a little bit more? I thought that was great. I would love to learn more about those kind of four areas and what someone might be thinking in each one of those areas and how to make that step.
- [44:02]
Jason Moss
Yeah. So I'll say first, I've been working with a mentor of mine, his name's Scott Alford, for the last few years. This is his framework. So I want to give full credit to him. But he talks about the three levels of consciousness. There's willful, intellectual and intuitive. There's so many applications for this in marketing and sales. It's been one of the most useful things I've ever discovered. So the basic premise I think to start is we have these three different ways of operating. You can think of them as. And different people are in different lanes. And so understanding where your ideal clients are is one piece of this, which is like, you know, when I was in sales, maybe you can relate to this. Because I'm a former director of sales, we see the disc profile test. Okay. So for anyone who doesn't know, disc is basically it's this personality profile. And it would show you there are these different ways that people are wired. And I remember when I went through this for the first time, I had this big aha moment because I realized not everybody Communicates the same way that I do. And if I want to meet people where they are, I can't be like the hard driving because I'm a high D. That was the way I'm.
- [45:09]
Matt Bertram
Okay. I'm a. I. I'm a high I. Yeah.
- [45:12]
Jason Moss
Okay. It makes sense. You're saying you were a former salesperson. Yeah. So I, I kind of have, like a DI Background and, And my partner is wired very differently. She. She's a very low D. And so sometimes we, we will get in conflict because I can be a little bit too direct. And she, she is more of an S. So she likes to be communicated with more softness and more gentleness. So this is, this is an extension of that. It's. It. It's. There are these three. Three different modes of operating, you could say. And so there's willful, intellectual, and intuitive. Willful is someone who is, who is more in that, like, grind, get it done, make it happen energy. There's a. There's a real emphasis on, like, hard work and hustle. I would say above all else. It's the. I would say where Gary V was like, maybe five plus years ago, you know, the, the kind of, like, celebration of the grind and the hustle. It was emphasizing hard work above. Above really thinking strategically. It's the person who's gonna go out and make like 200 sales calls, and they're just gonna be like, I'm just gonna put in the work and do whatever. Yeah, crush it. That's a, that's a word that you'll hear from folks in that. In that energy. And none of these are wrong. This is different ways of. Modes of operating. So willful is one of the three. Intellectual is the second. This is the person who's thinking in systems and strategy. They're more likely to step back and say, okay, how can I work smarter rather than working harder. They're the type of business owner that's going to really architect things with their mind. They're going to think things through. They're going to want case studies, lots of facts and information. They're the person that's going to ask you 5,000 questions on a sales call because they're trying to understand it all. They want to learn how it all works. They're very intellectually oriented. So that's intellectual and then there's intuitive. And this is the person who does things because they feel right. This is the person who lives from a deeper place of intuition, of inner wisdom. They're less intellectual. They're more likely to say Things like I know it's right when it feels good. And they're the person who's going to tune in more so to energy and how a conversation feels. And they're less likely to respond to things like case studies and more likely to respond to the energy of a conversation and the energy of a piece of content. And so we've got these three different levels. Willful, intellectual, intuitive. You could build a business from all, all three. There are challenges that you'll experience in all of them. And also I think one useful thing is you might ask yourself, where are my ideal clients? You know, am I working with people who are primarily unwillful? If so, your sales page is going to need to include things like deadline timers and countdown timers and you know, more external scarcity and urgency to get somebody to commit because that's what that person needs to see. You show that, that stuff to an intuitive person. Oh, they're out. Like as soon as I see it, like a countdown timer, I'm like, screw this, this is not for me. So, so there's a, there's a lot of nuance here in terms of understanding who your people are, being able to tailor your message. And also on a personal level, I think it's understanding how you're wired and, and being able over time to move, move from generally from willful to intellectual and then from intellectual to a more intuitive way of operating in the business.
- [48:57]
Matt Bertram
I think it's so good. Thank you so much for sharing that. Before we start to wrap up, I would love to hear from you. You've worked with so many different entrepreneurs out there of so many different kinds of businesses. You probably see some kind of patterns, right? And like when, when you're, when you're coming in to assess these different business owners, you can kind of categorize them. And maybe it is in the categories that you just, you just mentioned. And maybe there's like another framework that you use to layer on top of that. But like, what are the, what are the problems that most people have when they come in? And is there quick fixes like that we could leave somebody with something actionable or on, like here's how you could solve this, right? And I can tell Jason, you're just such a deeper person that there's so much underneath there and people need that kind of help and a lot of people are trying to self diagnose a lot of this stuff. I think there's kind of the do it yourselfers and there's the done for you and then there's the like collaborative component. You know, I'm trying to understand, even for myself, like, okay, like I am clearly have procrastinated, if that's the word, to not do this, to not start this. And I guess, you know, I actually have done. I've coached two agencies so far that were just kind of beating down my door and they're like, hey, like, I want you to coach us. And I didn't really have a offer or framework and I was like, you could just buy some hours and just like a, you know, like a CMO kind of fractional deal. And it turned into like an eight month. They kept asking me stuff, but I didn't have any kind of methodology I was following. I just would show up and they would ask me questions and they were like, how do we deal with this and how do I deal with that? And I just have like, I guess a lot of experience because I've done everything wrong to know the right way to do it, I think, or at least like the thing that tends to work for me and then I can explain to people this is how I do it. But like, I didn't really have a goal of like where we were trying to go or where we were trying to follow. I was just kind of like, what are your issues? And then I was very, you know, it wasn't transactional, but it was transactional in my thinking of like. Like when my wife comes to me, like she doesn't want me to solve the problem, like I'm transactionally, I want to solve it. She wants to just hear me talk and like think about it and like all this stuff, right? Like, I'm just like, here's the answer, right? Or but is that answer right for them? And you know, being more thoughtful and there's a lot of like growth that's happened even personally through those experiences. But like, how do you help people? Right? Like, what does that look like? And what are those common symptoms when people come to you? And maybe there's some quick, quick fixes for people that are listening.
- [52:04]
Jason Moss
Yeah, well, there's so much there. I mean, part of me as a coach, I'm like, I just want to dive in right now and ask 10,000 questions. If we were in a coaching conversation, I would do that. I don't think we have the time to do that today. But I mean, I think the problems are varied and I want to make this relevant to the person who's listening right now. I would say that regardless of what stage you're at and what challenges you're experiencing in business. My prescription on the deepest level is always going to come back to identity. Because I believe that decisions and beliefs and actions in a business start with who we are and who we believe ourselves to be. So, for example, which is make it super practical. One common challenge that a lot of folks will come to me with around that six figure level is they feel like they're stretched too thin because they're handling everything themselves. And they're operating in a way that actually was really useful when they first started their business because they had to get scrappy and figure things out. But now they're juggling too many plates. They've got their hand in 10,000 different things and that way of operating is no longer sustainable to help them break through to that next level. And so you could look at the business externally. You could say, okay, well, you need to get better at delegating and you need to get better at. And you know, so many coaches or mentors or business strategists will do that. And some people will be able to make that shift. But it's the identity that's creating those behaviors. And so if that person sees themselves as a six figure entrepreneur, well, they're going to hang on to control. And even if they know intellectually that they need to delegate, they're not going to do it because their identity is telling them, well, it doesn't make sense for me to do this or I don't have the money to do it, or, you know, I want to hang on to control. So I can, I can, you know, maintain the level of quality and the standards that I have. But if you just ask that person, if you just say, I want you to wake up every single morning and I want you to tell yourself, I am now a seven figure entrepreneur. I lead my day as a seven figure entrepreneur. I make decisions as a seven figure entrepreneur. And you just do that for five minutes every single morning. You just close your eyes and you visualize what it's like to move through your day as a seven figure entrepreneur. Does a seven figure entrepreneur not have a team? Does a seven figure entrepreneur hang on to 10,000 different things? Does a seven figure entrepreneur not delegate? No. All those things will naturally fix themselves if that person is just living from the identity of the seven figure entrepreneur. So in business it's like we look for the point of highest leverage. It's like, okay, what's the lead domino that's going to knock down 10,000 other dominoes? If I can just press that one domino down you can spend all day trying to fix things in the land of strategy, but if you just give somebody a new identity, those things will sort themselves out. So to make it practical, I would ask yourself, whoever's listening, like, wherever you are in your business, okay, what's my next level? Where do I want to be next? And then who's the person who has already created that success? And every single day, spend five minutes imagining what it's like to be that person, and you'll find that the strategy, the external things will sort themselves out.
- [55:23]
Matt Bertram
Man. See, guys, you need to go check out Jason's stuff. You can tell he's just a good dude. He's polished. He knows what he's talking about. He's got some, like, great frameworks. So I encourage you to definitely go check out Jason. So, Jason, one of the things that I ask all guests, as I say, you know, give me one unknown secret of Internet marketing. So you helped optimize marketing. It's a piece of your filler pillar. I can't talk today. So let's tell me what is, like, one of the biggest underutilized things that you see that people need to do. And it could be repackaged to something we've already talked about today, but just in kind of, like, short form. Tell me, what's one unknown secret of Internet marketing?
- [56:10]
Jason Moss
I would say for me, the more I've been doing this, and I mean, I've been doing Internet marketing for about 20 years now, the less I see it as Internet marketing and the more I see it as just human connection. And I've. I've. I have this thing in my mind that I used to see it as. There's something I need to do to set up funnels and create these systems and things. Now I just see it as. This is just a simple act of connecting with another human being. And how do I do that using this medium? You know, it's like if I wanted to have a conversation with you, Matt, I could call you up on the phone, I could send you a text message, I could shoot you an email, or I could say, hey, let's go out to coffee, and it'd still be the same conversation. There's some nuances around how I might frame that. I might use some emojis if I'm sending you a text. But at the end of the day, the substance of that conversation is not going to change. And so I think the big secret of Internet marketing is the less that you see it as Internet marketing, the more that you realize what you're actually doing, which is marketing is just a means to an end. It's just how are we facilitating these connections and building trust and relationships with people? The more that I see it is this very human process. The simpler it becomes, the more these tools start to feel less like these big complicated systems that I don't understand and more as just these tools. Just like a phone or just like a email or just like a text, it's the same thing. It's, it's human connection. And I think that's the, that's the big unspoken secret to Internet marketing.
- [57:53]
Matt Bertram
I love that. I couldn't say it better myself. Guys, Jason Moss. Jason, if people want to find out more about, you know, You Big on YouTube, where else can they find you? Where can they connect with you and just have that, that genuine connection? Because I think you really come from a really centered place and I think that that could benefit a lot of people.
- [58:14]
Jason Moss
Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. And thank you for the opportunity again to get to share with your audience. There's a couple of places you can connect with me on a deeper level. I would say go to jasonmoss.com j-a s o n m o s s dot com. That's our hub. And you can link, there's a link to our YouTube channel where I post tons of free trainings and resources. There's a free guide there, our seven figure scaling guide, which is super useful. It actually walks through the CEO Freedom formula in a lot more detail. So you can go check that out if you want to learn more about that and shoot me a message, let me know what resonated with you. I'd love to hear from you. I love getting to connect with people once a while.
- [58:50]
Matt Bertram
Awesome. Well, everybody, that's Jason Moss. Thank you for listening to the unknown secrets of Internet marketing. I am your host, Matt Bertram. If you want to grow your business with the largest, most valuable, powerful. I don't even know how to say this anymore. Tool on the planet, the Internet, everything's changing. Algorithms are everywhere. You got to optimize everywhere, reach people across the board. We help you build those in the level two of what Jason was talking about, the funnels, the strategies, the digital pr, the SEO, all that stuff. We have a great team. We've been doing it for a long time. And if you have questions about that and want to learn more about how it applies to your business, reach out to EWR for more revenue in your business. Again, I am your host, Matt Bertram. Until the next time, Bye Bye. For.