Podcast Summary: Entity SEO & AI Search – Winning in the New Search Landscape

Podcast: The Best SEO Podcast: Unlocking the Unknown Secrets of AI, Search Rankings & Digital Marketing
Host: Matt Bertram
Guest: Zach Chahalis (apartments.com, formerly iPullRank)
Date: August 18, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the rapidly shifting landscape of search thanks to AI and entity-based SEO. Host Matt Bertram and guest Zach Chahalis unpack what AI-driven search means for rankings, tracking, user experience, structured data, and how SEO professionals should react. Tangible examples from apartments.com ground the discussion, with strategic advice on adapting to changing search behaviors and preparing SEO strategies for the next era.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Pace of Change in SEO and AI Search

• The industry is grappling with the implications of AI-powered and generative search engines (GES). There is confusion and conflicting opinions about how to respond and which data points/KPIs matter most now.
• Many practitioners are still relying on traditional SEO strategies, but forward-thinking pros are experimenting with new frameworks (referenced Malik from Search Atlas and the SCHOLAR framework) ([01:16]–[04:49]).
• Quote: “I think a lot of folks might get stuck in legacy ways of thinking about SEO and not thinking about generative engines or the impact of things like AI mode.” — Zach ([01:16])

2. The Reality of AI Mode and Search Overviews

• AI features are pushing classic organic results (“the ten blue links”) further down the page.

• Brand search is rising even as organic traffic drops for some sites.

• The impact differs between verticals. Real estate, for example, is not yet affected to the same degree as ecommerce, travel, or news.

• Early AI overviews are inconsistent—sometimes helpful, sometimes returning low-value or incorrect results ([04:49]–[07:32]).

  “We’re ranked #1 and the top source in the AI overview… but for commercial queries, if Google is experimenting, sometimes the overviews are bad. Like, ‘Go visit apartments.com and these other sites.’ I could have saved that space.” — Zach ([05:41])

3. Adoption Curve: What’s the Urgency?

• The adoption rate of AI features like Search Generative Experience (SGE) is still low (“hovering around 1-2%” even with Google’s push) ([09:21]).

• There’s a long tail for industry change—site owners shouldn’t panic, but need to be aware and gradually prepare.

• Debate over when to aggressively adapt vs. optimize existing strengths.

  “Some folks are a little anxious and putting themselves ahead of the curve… I think you’ve got time before AI mode becomes the standard.” — Zach ([09:21])

4. The Enterprise Approach to AI

• Most large companies are experimenting with integrating AI into products (e.g., conversational search on apartments.com, AI-generated property descriptions from images, tools for landlords).

• Internally, AI is leveraged for efficiency (e.g., helping write code, data processing, speeding up repetitive tasks)—but there’s still warranted caution about “hallucinations” and technical errors.

• AI is being positioned as a productivity enhancer, not a human replacement ([13:35]–[18:33]).

  “I see AI being adopted in enterprise to improve efficiency… Google stated they’re using AI to write about half their code right now.” — Zach ([15:46])

5. Entity SEO Explained

• Entity SEO shifts focus from keywords and simple semantic analysis to a robust web of relationships—who/what/where/when within a topical graph ([20:11]).

• Entities can be organizations (apartments.com), places (San Diego), authors, properties, and more.

• Structured data (schema) is central for clarifying these relationships to search engines and AI engines.

• The move is from “word to vector”—not just what terms appear, but how they’re associated, and what role each entity plays.

• Examples from apartments.com: mapping neighborhoods to cities to states, associating properties to their amenities and authors, and connecting listings to units with supporting media (like 3D tours with Matterport acquisition) ([20:11]–[24:48]).

  “We’re now moving from word to vector, from keyword association or even semantic search to relationships… helping search engines understand all these associations.” — Matt ([19:05])

  “Structured data is like taking a Shakespearean novel and distilling it to a kindergarten reading level for a crawler.” — Zach ([22:01])

6. The Ongoing Importance of Structured Data

• Claims that “structured data is dead” are premature: Bing and Google have confirmed it remains valuable, especially for generative AI engines ([24:48]–[25:47]).

• Proper use of structured data increases trustworthiness—a big factor for entities aiming for prominent AI Search results.

  “Both Bing and Google came out and said, ‘This is still valuable, the AI engines rely on this extensively, don’t get rid of it.’” — Zach ([24:52])

7. E-E-A-T, Authority, and Authorship in the Entity Era

• There’s still confusion on how to measure and signal “experience, expertise, authority, trust” (E-E-A-T) as applied to entities.

• Authorship connections using schema can help, but the tools to quantify or compare “entity value” are still lacking ([29:16]–[31:14]).

• Authority tends to accrue most to visible contributors, not silent experts—industry lists are often lagging, subjective, or inaccurate.

  “Those lists just generally don’t represent… it’s someone’s opinion, it’s not graded in any particular way.” — Zach ([32:57])

8. Topical Authority, Content Pruning, and Vector Content Models

• Large, established brands (apartments.com) focus on going deep in priority topical areas; they can’t (or shouldn’t) try to cover everything ([39:07]–[43:28]).

• Being the “category leader” or SME (Subject Matter Expert) in focused areas—by serving user needs with the best information—outranks breadth.

• Content pruning (removing irrelevant/outdated content) can “slingshot” rankings after narrowing topical focus.

  “You can’t be the knowledge of everything if you’re dividing your attention across five things… focus on a certain area, become well known, and cover off those topics before moving on.” — Zach ([41:38])

9. Mapping User Experience and Content Decisions

• With overall traffic falling due to AI overviews, the traffic that does arrive is more engaged, educated, and closer to conversion.

• Apartments.com uses user surveys and analytics to decide what content/features to build next (e.g., 3D tours, cost-of-living calculators), mapping UX journeys closely to user intent ([45:32]–[49:22]).

• Supporting all stages of user journeys, from broad information search to hyper-specific property needs.

  “Depending on where you come in, how do we bring you to the next thing… and eventually help you find the right place for you to live.” — Zach ([48:02])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI Search Impact:
  “You get to the top spot in Google and you lose traffic because now you’re in the overviews or in ‘People Also Ask’—traffic’s going down, but my brand searches are going up.” — Matt ([02:17])

• On Entity SEO:
  “We’re helping search engines understand all the relationships that exist between these different data points… so it ladders up from the unit, to the property, to the neighborhood, to the city, and so on.” — Zach ([20:11])

• On Structured Data Skeptics:
  “I saw so many folks saying, ‘structured data is meaningless now,’ and then both Bing and Google said, ‘Don’t get rid of it!’ That made me laugh.” — Zach ([24:52])

• On Topical Focus:
  “I’d rather whole-ass something than half-ass two things.” — Zach ([41:27])

• On Technical SEO Fundamentals:
  “Don’t try to get fancy without making sure you’re doing the basics correctly… a lot of these LLMs and generative engines don’t understand any form of JavaScript, and as much as Google says that they do, there are still issues.” — Zach ([55:38])

Important Timestamps

• 00:54–04:49 — Pubcon/SMX trends, grappling with AI’s impact, new frameworks
• 07:32–11:43 — Early adoption curves, AI mode as default, user/community feedback
• 13:35–18:33 — AI at the enterprise level, product integration, efficiency, caution/adoption
• 20:11–25:47 — Entity SEO deep dive, moving from keywords to relationships, structured data
• 29:16–34:05 — E-E-A-T, entity authority, author schema, industry lists
• 39:07–43:28 — Topical authority strategy, pruning, SMEs vs. breadth
• 45:27–49:22 — User journey mapping, feedback loops, content strategy decisions
• 55:38–56:51 — Final actionable SEO tip: Do the basics right before chasing fancy, AI-driven tactics

Actionable Advice

• Don’t rush into advanced AI or generative search SEO tactics until technical/structural basics are sound—ensure crawlability, structure, and site health first.
• Use structured data/schema to clarify your entities and relationships. This is still highly valued by both classic and generative search algorithms.
• Focus your authority—go deep, not wide, on priority topics. Prune content that dilutes your topical relevance.
• Map out your content and UX to user/customer journeys—use feedback to refine.
• Monitor AI search evolution, but avoid panic and “trend-chasing” until adoption is proven in your field.

“Don’t try to get fancy… there’s still a fundamental need to make sure your website is crawlable and you’re handling technical SEO components.” — Zach ([55:38])

Where to Find Zach

• LinkedIn is his main platform for industry discussion and updates.
• Occasional presence on X (formerly Twitter) and Blue Sky.
• Look for his upcoming talk at Digital Summit Minneapolis on leading and managing SEO/product teams.

Closing Thoughts

The future of SEO is being redrawn by AI and entity-based frameworks, but fundamentals still rule. Stay alert, keep learning, experiment thoughtfully, and be the best authority you can in your niche. The winners will master both advanced tools and the basics that generative engines (and users) still depend on.