The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™

Episode: From SEO to Reputation: Owning the LLM Era With Ross Barefoot
Host: Matthew Bertram (Matt)
Guest: Ross Barefoot
Date: October 13, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Matthew Bertram, creator of LLM Visibility™ and Lead Strategist at EWR Digital, dives deep with veteran SEO practitioner Ross Barefoot into the paradigm shift taking place in digital marketing. Together, they examine how traditional SEO is evolving in the era of large language models (LLMs), discuss the criticality of online reputation management, and share practical frameworks for future-proofing brands. Key topics include Google’s foundational frameworks, the importance of reputation in LLMs, the intersection of social signals with search, and best practices for content and client management in a changing search landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shifts in Search: From SEO to LLM Visibility™

• Both guests reflect on the cyclical nature of search evolution, likening the shift to LLMs and AI-driven search models to the early days of Google.

• LLMs such as ChatGPT and Perplexity are rapidly becoming gatekeepers, requiring brands to understand how these systems “see” and surface reputational signals.

  "I feel like it's a new era of search... If you don't position yourself right now in these LLMs, in, let's say, 18 months, it's going to be 10x harder to position in them." — Matt (02:17)

2. Reputation as SEO: A New Framework

• Ross suggests flipping the script: reputation management should be the main discipline, with SEO as a subset.

• LLMs act as intelligent, detail-oriented researchers, placing more weight on overall brand reputation—across reviews, mentions, and engagement—than ever before.

  "I'm starting to change my own framing...I'm thinking it's all reputation management. And SEO becomes a subset of that." — Ross (03:34)

3. E-E-A-T, Content Fundamentals, and LLM Gullibility

• Core frameworks like Google’s E-E-A-T (Experience, Expertise, Authoritativeness, Trustworthiness) remain vital. However, LLMs can be naïve—open to narrative crafting but will grow more discerning over time.

• Reviews, genuine user-generated content, and “hidden authority” matter more than templated, optimized content.

  "The thing that I see though, the reason [LLMs are] gullible is they've just been exposed to real-time data...there's like a land grab that's happening." — Matt (07:41)
  "LLMs are pretty gullible if you tell them about yourself in a way that is believable...take your strong points...you're depriving yourself of a very good reputation management source right there." — Ross (64:50)

4. How LLMs Surface Content & the Rise of Hidden Authority

• LLMs often pull from deeper in the search results, surfacing older, helpful, less-optimized content, especially long-tail or discussion-based material (think Reddit, Quora).

• Social signals and share-of-voice are increasingly influential, potentially as important as backlinks.

  "The things that are getting surfaced in LLMs...are on average on the 10 blue links, 21+, so past page two...those long tail key phrases...not like AI generated, but humans talking about issues..." — Matt (12:59)
  "That's very interesting...as a power searcher...often the first few links are so heavily optimized...maybe the LLMs are being instructed to look for that kind of hidden authority..." — Ross (13:59)

5. Urgency: The Vanishing Window of Opportunity

• Once LLMs “lock-in” a set of trusted entities, it may be very difficult for new entrants to gain visibility, akin to the battle for Google’s top organic positions.

• Most businesses remain unaware or slow to react; action now will yield strategic advantage.

  "If agencies are doing the traditional things and LLMs are only showing one to six links...once they get established, they stay there...anybody generating business online...you're going to die on the vine." — Matt (15:04)

6. Measurement: Attribution and the Analytics Challenge

• Standard traffic and attribution metrics are becoming unreliable as LLMs anonymize referral data and channel fragmentation increases.

• Metrics should shift to conversions, structured engagement, and qualitative reputation signals.

  "Often [LLMs] don't pass refer data when they send a click...It's basically sending that traffic as anonymized...I don't know if they're doing that strategically or just because they don't care." — Ross (20:45)

7. Content Strategy & Website Pruning

• Big, in-depth, well-researched content (1500–2000 words or more) outperforms thin, templated material.

• Aggressive pruning (removing or no-indexing irrelevant/off-topic content) creates a sharper, more authoritative brand signal for both search engines and LLMs.

  "Pruning websites, right? LLMs can sniff out templated content really quickly...I treat it like let's make the website more aerodynamic." — Matt (29:56)
  "About a year ago, we started pushing our clients towards more extensive content and to lean heavier on EEAT...par[ing] down the less relevant content." — Ross (26:28)

8. Local and Ecommerce: Areas of Relative Stability

• Local and e-commerce SEO, supported by structured data (like Merchant Center feeds and GBP), remain less disrupted by LLM shifts but will eventually merge into the broader reputation paradigm.

  "For our ecommerce clients...their traffic is way down, but their sales are not...you're losing a lot of crap traffic that you didn't need anyway." — Ross (28:08)

9. Social as a Reputation Engine

• Social media integration is no longer optional; social engagement, comments, and share-of-voice are direct signals to LLMs.

• Agencies and brands must build capability for—or partner with—social media specialists to stay relevant.

  "Now I'm seeing that it's absolutely impossible to ignore social media...I'm bringing on board somebody who's a seasoned social media person...this is going to be a huge part." — Ross (43:44)

10. Client Management, Communication, and Education

• The speed of change and overwhelming data flow increases client anxiety and churn.

• Frequent education, in-person visits, and the adoption of new communication channels (like Slack) are crucial for retention.

• Reliable, communicative clients are more valuable than clients with a perfect business profile.

  "Ideally, what to look for in a client is not their business model...Are they willing to communicate and do they know when you talk to them, do you get a feel for that?" — Ross (59:22)
  "We're now rolling out slack for all clients on communication as the main channel because we think people are getting death by email." — Matt (57:45)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “If you don't position yourself right now in these LLMs, in, let's say, 18 months, it's going to be 10x harder to position in them.” — Matt (02:17)

• “I'm thinking it's all reputation management. And SEO becomes a subset of that.” — Ross (03:34)

• “The shortcutting is the reviews of other people...the LLMs are really like an intelligent human that's doing really in-depth research.” — Matt (05:49)

• “LLMs are gullible. We can craft that narrative...If you're not in there now to knock out those incumbents, just like the top three positions in Google, once they're locked, they're hard to move.” — Ross (03:34 & paraphrased throughout)

• “I can see that social mentions are becoming as important as backlinks...once those [authority entities] become solidified, to validate if they continue to stay in that authority position is, well, comments, are people talking about it?” — Matt (15:04)

• “We've been really aggressively trying to identify off-topic content, thin content, get it off the site...paring down the less relevant content in order to scope the relevance...more to what its mission is.” — Ross (28:08)

• “LLMs can sniff out templated content really quickly and they're trying to identify: are you [an] authority entity in this geographic area? And if you're using templated content, that really hurts.” — Matt (29:56)

• “Not all traffic is created equal. In these days, you're losing a lot of crap traffic that you didn't need anyway.” — Ross (28:08)

• “Scaling, it's hard to scale yourself...the brand of who you are, they connect with you, they want to work with you.” — Ross (48:20)

• “The accumulation of all that overwhelm is just this type of miscommunication...Missed communication.” — Ross (59:06)

Practical Advice, Frameworks, and Actionable Strategies

For Agencies/Marketers:

• Shift towards managing reputation as a holistic, multi-channel discipline—including social, review platforms, and owned website content.
• Prune and focus website content to sharpen topical authority; remove or no-index off-topic, low-value pages.
• Create extensive, original, EEAT-driven content, and embed experience signals (e.g., interviews, client testimonials, video).
• Build systems to aggregate and synthesize industry news (e.g., using Notebook LM or similar tools).
• Evolve communication strategies: Invest in client education, transition to platforms like Slack, and measure engagement as well as traditional KPIs.

For Brands/CMOs:

• Take seriously the urgency of LLM visibility. Early adoption yields long-term advantage.
• Embrace social as a critical trust-building and reputational channel.
• Diversify reviews beyond Google and actively engage in discussions on platforms like Reddit and Quora.

Timestamps: Important Segments

• (01:32): Ross contextualizes his SEO experience and the cyclical nature of industry evolution.
• (03:34): The reputation management > SEO framework.
• (05:49): The E-E-A-T framework and the evolving role of reviews.
• (12:59): Insights on LLMs surfacing deep, long-form content—past page one in SERPs.
• (19:14): Discussion on shifting analytics, declining traffic, and attribution challenges.
• (28:08): Deep dive into content pruning, Merchant Center strategy, and traffic quality.
• (43:44): The necessity of social media as part of future-proofing.
• (57:45): Client communication challenges, Slack rollout, and the need for proactive education.
• (61:43): Ross' best practices for reputation management in the LLM era.

Final Thoughts

Both Matt and Ross urge listeners to recognize that we are “entering a jungle” where old metrics and tactics are less reliable. Strategic focus should shift to rigorous reputation-building, multi-channel engagement, and continuous adaptation driven by both classic content fundamentals and emerging LLM visibility strategies. This episode is a must-listen for forward-looking SEOs, agency owners, CMOs, and any organization intent on owning their digital narrative in the era of AI-driven info discovery.

Get in touch with Ross Barefoot:

• Email: ross@eepseo.com
• Website: eepseo.com
• Training Group: searchengineacademy.com

For more actionable insights, subscribe, share, and follow The Best SEO Podcast — your essential guide for navigating the future of search and reputation in the LLM era.