Podcast Summary

The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™

Episode: How to Use AI Without Destroying Quality, Trust, or Margins With Nick Avaria
Host: Matthew Bertram
Guest: Nick Avaria (Agencyacquisitions.io)
Date: January 12, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, SEO strategist Matthew Bertram sits down with agency acquisition expert Nick Avaria to tackle one of the most urgent topics in digital marketing today: how to leverage AI—in particular, large language models (LLMs)—without sacrificing service quality, client trust, or profit margins. As the industry undergoes a seismic shift in how search engines and answer engines work, Matt and Nick dig deep into what agencies, marketers, and consultants need to do to stay ahead, adapt business models, and avoid the pitfalls of commoditized AI outputs.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The New Complexity of Search and AI's Disruption ([00:59]–[06:09])

• The SEO and digital marketing world is no longer just about Google and Facebook; “traffic has basically…left Google, gone everywhere else” (Matt, [00:59]).
• Agencies now need to build full-funnel solutions and embed themselves as strategic operators—often in roles akin to fractional CMOs.
• Commoditized “out-of-the-box” services (prepackaged SEO or Facebook ads) are no longer enough; clients’ needs are more complex.

Notable Quote:
“You gotta be an expert in everything. Not just like a generalist, but like an expert in everything. …Things are not going to go well.” (Matt, [01:22])

2. Rise of the "Specialized Generalist" ([03:38]–[06:09])

• Nick forecasts a “re-raising of the generalist”—not the "Renaissance man" who knows a little about everything, but someone with deep expertise across multiple domains (“a Leonardo da Vinci type character”—Nick, [04:16]).
• As AI eats up many specialized tasks, the delta between value provided and commoditized output comes from the ability to orchestrate, strategize, and connect disciplines: copywriting, CRO, branding, offer design, etc.

Notable Quote:
“It’s a generalist that could be a specialist at like four different things. And this is giving rise to like a problem because there’s not that many of those people out there.” (Nick, [04:16])

3. Challenges of Delivering Results in an AI-Driven Landscape ([06:09]–[09:45])

• AI-driven ad platforms optimize in unforeseen ways (sometimes toward spam), requiring hands-on management and expertise in prompt engineering.
• The expectation has shifted to results and outcomes, not just activity. Clients “are looking for outcomes, looking for results.” (Matt, [06:44])
• The messy agency “middle” arises when services are overly commoditized, eroding margins and making retaining clients more costly.
• High-touch, high-strategy accounts are becoming the norm for maintaining client relationships, pushing agencies into a quasi-consulting/architect role.

4. Market Realities & Client Demand Shifts ([09:45]–[12:50])

• The fragmentation of search behavior (nearly 60% traffic migrated away from Google) means clients must do more to maintain visibility.
• Trust is becoming ever harder to earn—sales cycles and touchpoints have dramatically increased (“11 touch points…now it’s 30”—Matt, [10:35]; “the trust level to engage…is much higher”—Nick, [11:35]).
• Agencies and freelancers face margin pressure as client expectations around AI lead to “do more with less” mindsets.

5. The AI Content Quality Trap: Avoiding 'AI Slop' ([12:50]–[15:07])

• Nick describes agency pain points where team members rely on LLMs outputting “AI slop”—content or ad copy that is nonsensical or unaligned with client needs.
• The solution is “human first”: AI as a helper, but not the strategist or final content-checker.
• Introduces “human-in-the-loop” and “copilot” mentalities for AI integration.
• Even so, AI still hallucinates (Nick: “hallucinations I think are still at like 36%”—Matt, [14:08]); workflows need multiple checks, including AI reviewing AI, but always with human oversight.

Notable Quote:
“AI is our helper. AI is not the strategist. We’re the strategist. Nothing goes out without us at least editing and surveying it.” (Nick, [13:15])

6. Risks of AI-Based Knowledge Loops in Young Talent ([15:07]–[18:04])

• Many newer hires have learned exclusively from prompting LLMs, creating knowledge “looping” with no real-world base—a critical risk for agencies.
• True critical thinking and expertise are at a premium; there’s a danger in agencies composed of “regurgitators” lacking depth or firsthand experience.

7. Business Model Evolution: From 'Done For You' to 'Done With You' ([18:04]–[21:45])

• Nick advocates for agencies to blend traditional services (“done for you”) with “done with you” consulting/coaching models, which can dramatically expand addressable markets and margin.
• Consulting—training or supporting in-house marketing teams, auditing, and supporting strategy—lets agencies bill at higher hourly rates and avoid the pitfalls of commoditization.

Notable Quote:
“Done for you services as an agency is no longer enough. …All agencies should have done with you services.” (Nick, [16:50])

8. Client Communication, Retainers, and Managing Scope in a Volatile Market ([21:45]–[29:26])

• Reporting and communication have shifted—email/video reports often go unwatched; many clients demand regular (even weekly) live interaction with strategists.
• Dilemma: As demand for high-touch consulting rises, staffing for these offerings without burning out teams or overextending becomes a management puzzle.
• Hourly or retainer-based consulting can be the solution—especially for larger or “foggy” clients with unpredictable needs.

9. Profitability Levers & Case Studies in Pricing Models ([29:26]–[32:54])

• Real-world example: A team charges $1,000/hour for consulting calls vs. $250/hr on “done for you” offerings, boosting profitability while maintaining authority and expertise.
• Don’t go all-in on coaching unless you’re truly practicing what you preach—legitimacy comes from continuously doing the real work.

10. The Experience Premium and Google’s E-E-A-T ([32:54]–[34:40])

• Google’s update from E-A-T to E-E-A-T foregrounds the pressing importance of real experience.
• Clients and end-users increasingly seek out experts who can demonstrate genuine, on-the-ground expertise, not just AI-regurgitated info: “If you are not doing the work, you’re not gonna have that edge.” (Matt, [33:15])

11. Reputation, LLM Visibility, and Attribution Challenges ([34:40]–[41:33])

• New search behavior means users are checking brands via LLMs (ChatGPT, Claude) before buying—“What are these models saying about your brand?” is now a service agencies must offer.
• Traditional attribution modeling is “out the window,” especially with spam/ad fraud and the rise of multi-touch, multi-platform funnels.
• Must track and optimize beyond last-click (“until we hit…sales qualified lead status, don’t attribute”—Nick, [37:22]).
• Mid- and upper-funnel marketing, reputation management, and creative funnel “hacks” are key to survival.

Notable Quote:
“Reputation management—what are they saying about your brand? …These are new services and things people haven’t thought about.” (Matt, [36:50])

12. Managing Remote Teams in the Post-COVID Agency Era ([41:33]–[46:44])

• Initial productivity in remote teams was from pre-existing relationships; as those fade, agencies must intentionally foster culture and communication.
• Key tactics: structured skip-level meetings, rigorous SOPs, racy matrices (responsibility matrices), and a focus on Objectives–Metrics–KPIs to keep remote workers engaged and accountable.
• The most successful agencies will ensure team objectives create wins for clients, for the business, and for the individuals.

Notable Quote:
“Every agency needs a RACI matrix … and the most important thing to be successful in a remote environment is having objectives, metrics, and KPIs… what are the numbers congruent to success?” (Nick, [43:29])

Actionable Takeaways

• Specialize and diversify: Agencies and freelancers must become “specialized generalists” with both breadth and depth.
• Keep humans in the loop: Use AI, but always with human strategy, critical thinking, and editorial oversight.
• Value experience and trust: Show not just results, but real world, recent expertise—this is your premium.
• Blend service models: Incorporate consulting, audits, and live coaching alongside standard deliverables to capture higher margins and retain clients.
• Master communication and reporting: Shift from passive, email/video reports to interactive client sessions when needed.
• Update your business ops: Remote teams succeed with processes, culture, and transparent KPIs.
• Adapt your attribution logic: Don’t rely only on last-click or simplified models—optimize for holistic, multi-touch journeys, and be creative with offers and funnel optimization.

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “You gotta be an expert in everything. …Because things are not going to go well.” (Matt, [01:22])
• “It’s a generalist that could be a specialist at like four different things.” (Nick, [04:16])
• “AI is our helper. …We’re the strategist. Nothing goes out without us at least editing.” (Nick, [13:15])
• “If you are not doing the work, you’re not gonna have that edge. …that’s what people are buying.” (Matt, [33:24])
• “Attribution is out the window. …That’s the best we got.” (Matt paraphrasing Rand Fishkin, [39:38])
• “The most important thing to be successful in a remote environment is having objectives, metrics and KPIs.” (Nick, [43:29])
• “You need to set up objectives in a way where when people achieve them, it automatically creates a win for the client, for the agency and for the person themselves at the same time. …Triple Net Wins.” (Nick, [46:18])

Useful Timestamps

• [00:59] — Traffic leaving Google, rise of LLMs, and the new complexity for agencies
• [03:38] — “Specialized generalist” vs. old-school generalist
• [06:09] — AI causing ad campaign strangeness, prompt engineering challenges
• [12:50] — The “AI slop” danger and the need for human oversight
• [18:04] — Transitioning from “done for you” to “done with you” consulting
• [29:26] — Coaching/consulting as business model: case study & rates
• [32:54] — Why “experience” matters in LLM visibility and Google’s updates
• [34:40] — Reputation management and attribution in a multi-model world
• [41:33] — Remote team best practices for agencies
• [46:18] — “Triple Net Wins” and setting KPIs; closing resources

Links & Resources Mentioned

• Nick Avaria on LinkedIn: Nick Avaria
• Agencyacquisitions.io: https://agencyacquisitions.io/
• Free dashboard and remote optimization training (offered by Nick): check show notes when available

This summary covers all major insights and strategic highlights from the episode, offering a clear, structured overview for listeners and agency professionals navigating the fast-evolving SEO and AI marketing landscape.