Podcast Summary: "SEO Isn't Dying, Bad SEO Is"

Podcast: The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™
Host: Matthew Bertram
Guest: Krešimir Ćorluka ("Peter"), Canonical SEO (Croatia)
Date: January 26, 2026

Episode Overview

In this dynamic episode, Matthew Bertram sits down with Croatian SEO agency owner Krešimir Ćorluka (going by "Peter" for the show) to tackle the provocative claim that "SEO is dying" in today’s rapidly shifting search landscape. They explore how traditional SEO is evolving into LLM (Large Language Model) Visibility, the pitfalls of bad SEO practices, and the new skills and mindsets needed to thrive in a world where LLMs, AI, and diverse platforms reshape discoverability.

The conversation touches on fundamentals versus new trends, global perspectives on SEO, client and agency challenges, measurement and attribution complexities, and future threats and opportunities as search engines and AI agents evolve.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Shifting SEO Landscape & LLM Visibility

• Matthew: Opens with a discussion about the turbulent changes in SEO, highlighting recent studies where LLMs surface results from outside Google’s top positions ([02:20]).
• Insight: Matthew notes, “There's just all this data that's constantly evolving… would love to hear how you’re viewing this, what you’re looking at, what’s important to you, and how you’re moving forward with it.” ([02:41])

2. Fundamentals of Good (and Bad) SEO

• Peter: “The fundamentals stay the fundamentals… Generative experience or LLM optimization is basically good SEO, and bad SEO is what people think is dying.” ([04:50])
• Good SEO is alive and stronger than ever; black-hat, spammy, and purely checklist-driven approaches are becoming obsolete.
• Matthew: “The headline I’m walking away from is, bad SEO is dying.” ([07:39])
• SEO now requires a broader understanding, including customer journey, CRO, and how LLMs are trained and function.

Notable Quote

“People are saying all the time like SEO is dying… and it’s like cloaking, Black hat, writing up really stupid articles… that is dying. Good SEO… is not dying. It’s more alive than ever.”
— Peter ([05:45])

3. The Evolving Skillset for Modern SEO

• Matthew: Stresses the need for a foundational SEO philosophy, not just task-based knowledge, especially as AI and LLMs change how search works.
• The importance of understanding adjacent areas (PPC, PR, analytics, dev) as part of effective SEO ([13:50]).
• Peter: “You gotta be in every trade at least a little bit to apply it… all those checklists you know are not gonna cut it and you have to get way deeper into it.” ([15:52])
• Junior SEOs or specialists who “just follow checklists” without broader knowledge struggle as environments change.

4. Global Perspectives: SEO in Mature vs. Emerging Markets

• Peter: Easier to achieve outsized results in less saturated markets like Croatia than in the US/UK, but budgets and expectations are converging ([22:08], [26:26]).
• Digital transformation varies by industry and geography. Early digital adopters (like SaaS) are far more competitive than traditional sectors.

Notable Quote

“If you input 30 hours a month for an expert senior SEO… you can get a jump from 20th to 5th… try that in the UK and you have to do way more for the same output.”
— Peter ([26:26])

• Matthew: Notes the surprisingly simple operational setup for working with international clients—“The playground is now global.” ([27:51])

5. Client Management & Agency Specialization

• Challenges with larger organizations: gridlock from multiple teams, lack of SEO culture, and rigid branding ([30:11]).
• Client fit and energy management—letting go of difficult clients can benefit agency focus and morale ([31:50]).
• Both agree that agencies should focus on their core strengths and partner with specialists, rather than being a full-service “one-stop shop.”

Notable Quote

“More agencies should stop looking at everything like a zero-sum game… we all kind of lift each other up.”
— Peter ([37:01])

6. Measurement & Attribution in a Fragmented Search World

• Increasing complexity: personalized results, differences between tracking tools, SERP localization, and LLM visibility metrics ([40:01]).
• Peter: Instead of over-complicating reports, “we just ask the clients what they want, what KPIs they care about.” ([44:27])
• Warns against trying to force precision in LLM visibility tracking—better to treat it like brand impressions or awareness than a strict traffic channel.

7. The Future of SEO & Search: AI, Agents, and Attention

• Peter: Predicts a future where personal AI agents will handle search and buying, reducing direct user engagement ([47:44]).
• Foresees a rise in offline/real-world attention tactics as online becomes more saturated and AI-generated content (“AI slop”) increases ([48:31]).
• Importance of multimodal approaches and the role of agents in recall and decision-making.

Notable Quote

“Offline will become a lot more important, because offline is where the attention is going to be, especially if most of the Internet turns into AI slop.”
— Peter ([48:31])

Memorable Moments and Quotes

• On evolving terminology and confusion:
  “SEO was always… an evolution from ‘webmaster’… you were trying to do whatever you could so your website is known about…” — Peter ([13:01])
• On the necessity of foundational knowledge:
  “If you get off that track or off optimizing with that tool… it’s like they’ve just jumped into the deep ocean.” — Matthew ([10:45])
• On “bad SEO” vs. “good SEO”:
  “Bad SEO is dying. Like, that’s a big takeaway for me.” — Matthew ([38:59])
• On global markets:
  “The playground is now global. Countries are now competing globally…” — Matthew ([27:51])
• On the future of search:
  “Everyone will have their little agent… that will probably be average… because people don’t like to waste time.” — Peter ([48:31])

Important Timestamps

• Fundamentals vs. Chasing Trends:
  [03:45] – [07:39]
• Skillsets Beyond SEO:
  [13:01] – [17:42]
• Global Market Comparisons:
  [22:08] – [30:11]
• Agency Structure & Partnerships:
  [37:01] – [38:28]
• Attribution/Measurement Challenges:
  [40:01] – [47:07]
• Futurism: AI Agents & Offline Attention:
  [47:44] – [51:10]

How to Connect & Follow

• Peter (Krešimir Ćorluka):
  • LinkedIn: [Find Peter on LinkedIn]
  • Agency: canonical.hr (Canonical SEO)
  • Conference: Croatia SEO Summit – annual event with international speakers
  • Regional SEO networking via “SEO meets” events across Croatia and expanding in Europe ([52:14])
• Matthew Bertram:
  • EWR Digital (North America): ewrdigital.com
  • Podcast & YouTube: The Best SEO Podcast

Final Thought

The key takeaway is clear:
SEO isn’t dying—bad, outdated, and shortcut-driven SEO is. The evolution of search into the LLM/AI era means fundamentals matter more than ever, but the best practitioners are thinking bigger, embracing new skills, understanding the shifting user journey, and preparing for a future shaped by AI agents and global competition.