Episode Overview

Podcast: The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™
Episode: What Actually Drives Citations in LLMs With Solomon Thimothy
Host: Matthew Bertram
Guest: Solomon Thimothy
Date: February 2, 2026

In this episode, host Matthew Bertram and guest Solomon Thimothy, both seasoned SEO agency owners, delve into what actually drives citations—and thus visibility—in large language models (LLMs) like ChatGPT, Gemini, and Claude. With the fusion of traditional SEO and next-gen AI-driven search, they explore tactical shifts, content frameworks, and actionable insights for brands and marketers wanting to win this new era of digital discoverability. The conversation is insightful and packed with practical tips, case studies, and forward-looking strategies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Evolution of Search and the LLM Paradigm Shift

• The Landscape: Every year brings change to SEO. The shift from blue links to summarized answers by AI is fundamentally altering how people search and make buying decisions (01:11–02:58).
  • "It hasn't stopped...Now ChatGPT will just summarize the 10 blue links and tell you one sentence what it is." — Solomon Thimothy [01:23]
• Prompts vs. Queries: User searches have turned into prompts, which can occur at the top, middle, or bottom of the customer funnel, mirroring the complexity and variance found in search terms but with even greater personalization.
  • "We talk about long tail keywords. Well, we have long tail prompts." — Solomon Thimothy [02:23]

2. LLM Visibility, Clean Data & Content Strategy

• Content Remains King: The core principle endures: create high-quality, relevant content focused on user intent, now more vital for LLM discoverability than ever.
  • "What sits behind it all is if you're building high quality, relevant content for the user…Does it help the user?" — Matthew Bertram [05:17]
• Data Organization: LLMs, like traditional search engines, crave clean, well-structured, and organized data.
  • "I think that's what it really comes down to is clean data." — Matthew Bertram [06:58]
• Schema and FAQs: Websites with robust schema markup and FAQs make it easier for LLMs to index and summarize, directly boosting chances of citation.
  • "If we had schema markup, really good FAQ section...Chat GPT or Claude...can read it and understand and summarize it to the users." — Solomon Thimothy [07:20]

3. Defining SEO in the LLM Era: AEO, GEO, and LLM Visibility

• New Terminology: The industry is still coining terms:
  • AEO (Answer Engine Optimization): Encompasses visibility in Google, ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, etc.
  • GEO (Generative Engine Optimization): Focused even more on LLMs and generative systems.
  • LLM Visibility: A framework Matthew developed to specifically measure AI-readiness.
• Tracking and Measurement: Both hosts emphasize the need for new tools or metrics to track brand mentions across LLM platforms.
  • "There's no system out there who can go track the prompts, the results…But the good thing is it can be changed. We’re doing it every single day." — Solomon Thimothy [13:23]

4. The Changing Logic Behind LLM Citations

• Not Just Blue Links: LLMs don’t strictly rely on Google results for answers. Their training sets could include unindexed or unconventional sources.
  • "Some 21 or 27% of the answers that were being shown weren’t even indexed." — Matthew Bertram [22:31]
  • "Just because you show up in AI overview, you don't automatically show up in Chat, CBT or Perplexity. We are seeing three different visibility percentages depending on the same prompt." — Solomon Thimothy [20:49]

5. Practical Strategies for LLM Citations & Visibility

• Brand Mentions & Media Appearances:
  • Securing consistent brand mentions and citations across authoritative sources, podcasts, press releases, and YouTube is key.
  • Media appearances amplify "share of voice" in both people’s minds and LLM training data.
    • "This podcast right here is considered media. And so when I show up to this podcast, it is actually being transcribed...and it's getting used in AI training." — Solomon Thimothy [24:34]
• Case Studies:
  • Small/niche brands can outperform larger competitors by controlling their digital footprint, regularly creating content, and leveraging media opportunities.
  • YouTube and podcasts are especially powerful for rapidly influencing LLM data sets.
  • Press releases remain effective, not just for one-off links but as persistent brand signals.
  • Iframes can hinder LLMs from picking up embedded content—content must be visible and properly marked up to be ingested.
    • "Elements don’t pick up iframe embeds...unless you have some schema markup referencing what it is, that’s not going to show up." — Matthew Bertram [28:11]

6. The Importance of Focus and Clarity in Branding

• Both LLMs and traditional search engines reward specificity and focus in branding and content strategy.
  • "A focus beam of light attracts more moths in the darkness." — Quoting a VP of Coca-Cola [35:35]
  • The need to clarify exactly who you are, what you do, and who you serve—‘jack of all trades’ approaches dilute visibility.
  • "You need to get really, really clear who you are and what you do and who you serve. And you need to build content around that based on the customer journey, based on the target Persona that you’re going after." — Matthew Bertram [36:36]
• Lost Opportunity Cost: Clients must recognize potential losses from not being visible in LLMs or failing to communicate their value proposition sharply online.
  • "It’s tens and thousands of dollars per month that you could be missing out because you didn’t put anything about you on the Internet..." — Solomon Thimothy [34:21]

7. The Future: Rapid Change, Experimentation & the Race for Attention

• Experimentation Culture: With no playbook, SEO and digital marketers should experiment constantly and measure outcomes.
  • "Expert mentation is what we do. We've always done that. We never knew anything until we can prove something." — Solomon Thimothy [31:44]
• The Window is Shrinking: As marketers learn to manipulate LLM visibility, citation trustworthiness may suffer. The importance of continual adaptation is stressed—strategies that work now may be less effective as the landscape evolves.
• Support for SMBs: Solomon offers free resources (10x10x.info) to help small businesses get started in the LLM/AI visibility race.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We got tired of clicking on the blue links and doing our own assessments...Now ChatGPT will just summarize...So why would we go and do what we used to do?" — Solomon Thimothy [01:32]
• "SEO was typically an afterthought from a lot of the clients that we’re seeing recently. And now you’re trying to play catch up...now you’re into entity SEO, you’re into geo, you’re into...LLM visibility." — Matthew Bertram [04:11]
• "If you can figure out the prompts, that’s about half the problem..." — Solomon Thimothy [12:30]
• "Just because you show up in AI overview, you don’t automatically show up in Chat, CBT or Perplexity...Google is like the worst, ChatGPT keeps showing up more and more..." — Solomon Thimothy [20:53]
• "This podcast right here is considered media...it's getting transcribed and it's getting used in AI training. And so...it's considered another citation, another brand mention." — Solomon Thimothy [24:34]
• "Elements don’t pick up iframe embeds...unless you have some schema markup referencing what it is, that’s not going to show up." — Matthew Bertram [28:13]
• "Marketers are going to ruin ChatGPT because we now know what the freak we need to do. And that means that we can’t trust it like we used to trust." — Solomon Thimothy [32:21]
• "A focus beam of light attracts more moths in the darkness." — Quoting a VP of Coca-Cola [35:35]
• "You need to get really, really clear who you are and what you do and who you serve...The more you get focused, you can amplify that focus." — Matthew Bertram [36:36]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:11 — How user search behavior is changing with AI summaries and prompts
• 03:56 — The transition from traditional paid/SEO to entity and LLM visibility
• 07:08 — Why schema and FAQs matter for LLMs' ability to cite your site
• 11:54 — Breakdown of new terminology: AEO, GEO, LLM Visibility
• 18:47 — State of LLM tracking tools and Solomon’s in-house stack
• 20:49 — LLMs serve different citations than search engines; why Google's AI overview isn't the only measure
• 24:34 — Podcasts, press, YouTube, and other media as new citation sources for LLM training sets
• 28:07 — Practical tip: LLMs can’t see iframe-embedded content
• 31:44 — The necessity for constant experimentation in the new SEO/AI era
• 34:21 — Real-world example: lost opportunity cost for real estate agents and other businesses
• 35:35–36:36 — The value of focus and specificity for LLM and SEO success
• 37:42 — Free educational resource for AI/LLM visibility: 10x10x.info

Final Resources & How to Connect

• Solomon Thimothy shares a free 45-minute training for business owners at 10x10x.info
• LinkedIn newsletter from Matthew Bertram for ongoing updates
• Both hosts encourage listeners to invest in self-education, keep experimenting, and connect via socials and show notes for more resources

Summary

This episode is a must-listen for marketers, SEO professionals, and business owners trying to future-proof their online visibility in the age of LLMs. Key takeaways include:

• Focus on organizing and clarifying your website and brand data
• Leverage schema, FAQs, and a deliberate content strategy
• Amplify your voice across media, especially YouTube and podcasts to get cited in training sets
• Understand the shift from keyword/blue link SEO to prompt/answer-based discoverability
• Stay adaptable and experiment constantly as the industry rapidly evolves

For anyone eager to dominate the next wave of search and ensure their business is not invisible to the emerging AI engines, this episode provides a roadmap to action and a warning to those standing still.