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The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™
When PR Meets SEO With Jackie Zukerman Delory
00:55:02
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- [00:01]
A
This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing, your insider guide to the strategies top marketers use to crush the competition. Ready to unlock your business full potential? Let's get started. Welcome back to the Best SEO podcast, the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. And I've got a graphic that we've got to remove from there. There we go. All right, I'm your guest host, Jeff Campbell. As you can tell by my graphic overlay skills, second time hosting the podcast. Matt is off doing business development right now and he is cooking up some really interesting things for future episodes, so you'll want to join us for those. But today's guest is Jacqueline Zuckerman Delore, founder and CEO of Next on Scene Media, a Boston based PR and media company helping entrepreneurs and brands get seen, heard and remembered. Jacqueline launched Next on Scene podcast back in 2014, added a magazine in 2015, and has since built the brand into a full service agency offering what she calls 360 degree visibility, strategy, storytelling, amplification, under all under one roof. She's interviewed celebrities and reality stars and helped hundreds of business owners land press placements in outlets like USA Today, Fox and NBC and created her signature blueprints. Sorry, created her signature blueprints by Jacqueline PR Road map system. Jacqueline, welcome to the show. Great to have you with us.
- [01:32]
B
Jeff, that was such a nice introduction. Thank you.
- [01:36]
A
Oh, you're most welcome. It's great, Great to have you with us today. So you launched Next on Scene podcast back in 2014, before podcasting was really a thing, or not as broad as it is right now, that's for sure. What made you bet on that type of media as part of your business model early in the game?
- [01:55]
B
Yeah, it's a great question. I. I really fell into it, like, I didn't really know what it was because radio was still really. Radio still exists, as you know, but it was still really big, like 1112 years ago. You know, I feel like it was something new and I wanted to explore something new and exciting. And so that's kind of why I kind of took the jump and went for it. And I thought it would allow people to listen on demand. And that's really what sold me on it because people could listen anytime. So that's why I leaned into it. I went for it.
- [02:26]
A
Right. And were you a listener to a lot of shows at the time, digging in, exploring yourselves? You just heard about it, you thought, this is a thing we should try. And how have you liked it as a tool? That's a long time to stay with it.
- [02:38]
B
Yeah, I Love it. As a networking tool. I feel like I've gotten to. I don't know how you feel about this. I'm assuming, you know, you and Matt probably feel the same, but you really get to know really intimately and get thought about beyond, like, because you get intimate time with people. And I think it's a great way to like do introductions and be thought about afterwards with no expectation during it.
- [02:58]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Well, my, my kind of backstory actually is I was a listener of this podcast, you know, going back about 12 years because that was a pretty early adopter when it came to podcasting, before it, even before it was even called podcasting, I was, you know, just listening and watching that space and found it really interesting. But I found this company through their podcast. I hired them about eight years ago, so I was a client for like four or five years. And then I got to know the team. They just seemed like they were having a good time and the podcast was part of that. And now here I am hosting it.
- [03:29]
B
So that amazing.
- [03:31]
A
If you don't think it works for business, like, it works and.
- [03:34]
B
Yeah.
- [03:34]
A
And, you know, I'm living proof of that. So.
- [03:37]
B
Great story. That's a great story. Love that story.
- [03:40]
A
Yeah, it's. It's the long game though, definitely. Right. Because that was like a 12 year journey. But it builds business, but it's not like flipping a switch. You know, you're building the network, having great conversations and, and learning, you know, and making. Meeting great people along the way. So. Excellent. Let's talk about digital PR and SEO. Those worlds have kind of meshed together a lot. We're finding that even more and more, like a press placement in USA Today isn't just credibility anymore. It's a backlink. It's, you know, a backlink from a very authoritative domain on the Internet. So how intentionally do you factor in SEO into the press and media placements that you're going after for your clients?
- [04:25]
B
Yeah, yeah. I tell every client now that you need to optimize your press placements. Like you need to put on your website, you need to put in your email signatures, like anywhere you can link it. Do you know what I mean? Like, backlink the better. So I always say, like, definitely hire an SEO company with the press placements. But I've also seen now with AI, like when you're searching for companies, when you're pressed, when you're in place online like a credible source, it also is now picking up like, oh, so. And you know, Jeff was cited in USA Today or Business Insider. Like those are, they're now pulling those up as like go to people in the industry. So it's helping build your credibility even within AI and chat and all those things.
- [05:10]
A
So yeah, absolutely. You know, AI search channels like GPT or Perplexity and even Google's AI overviews pull heavily from earned media and trusted publications. Like those are clients coming to you asking, how do I show up when someone is asking about AI in my, you know, asking AI for information in my industry, like, are they looking for that as a, you know, getting AI visibility? Is that a consideration for your clients?
- [05:37]
B
So for me, so I think clients come to me first to get more eyes on them in terms of like public speaking. Like a thought leadership I would say is what they come to me for. And then I tell them once the placements are in place, like, you should hire an SEO company to optimize it to be more searchable, you know, because the team, TV stations, the magazine outlets, they will put you on their websites and I'll tell you strategically how to market it in your social media. But I'm not the tech whiz beyond that place. So I'm like, you need to even maximize the opportunities beyond that. And that's how companies like you can really help.
- [06:14]
A
So yeah, yeah, absolutely. And we love to help get involved with that. And we found, you know, the need to have discussions and conversations with people more in the traditional PR space as well to bring in their skill set to solve some of the client problems that clients bring to us as well. So here's a thesis I want to get your take on. PR is becoming an effective SEO strategy because AI models trust, you know, the third party coverage more than anything a brand says about itself. Do you agree with that statement or would you have a different take on it?
- [06:48]
B
Can you repeat it again?
- [06:50]
A
Yeah, so it's like the, the concept that, that PR is like the kind of the best SEO move that you can do because of how much AI loves that third party statements. Like a lot of traditional SEO is like what we say about us on our website and our blog and things that we're doing for ourselves to get ranking as opposed to when you go to those third party, you know, getting placed on, you know, Forbes or USA Today, that's like a trusted third party. And that's more, you know, the idea is that that's more critical to the AI search because of its third party nature as opposed to us saying, hey, we're here and we're awesome. You know, everybody's going to say, good Things about themselves. Right, but third party, for sure.
- [07:34]
B
No, I think it's, I think it's really. So just correct me if I'm answering correctly because it sounds so technical. So I'm just being too. So I think it's really valuable to have pr because automatically it gives you great SEO in AI. It does, it gives you great SEO and AI gives you great SEO on Google. But sometimes you even need, well, you 100% need people to go in and make it so it attracts even more people outside of their audiences. And that's where I feel like you guys come in. Does that kind of answer that question?
- [08:04]
A
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like the way, the way we would look at it is that there's foundational pieces that you want to have your information architecture correct, you know, and you're, you're kind of information entities correct. Not, you know, it used to be mostly just about your own website and your backlinks coming to your site, but now it's like your information across a variety of channels, including your website and primarily your website, but also other places where people might be talking about things like, you know, the, the, the LLMs are looking for original, authentic, accurate, up to date information. So they're going to places like Reddit, you know, scraping Reddit for. Because it's fresh conversation. It's fresh, authentic conversation, generally speaking. Although as people try and game Reddit more, maybe the authenticity factor is going to get pushed down a bit because everybody's always trying to, you know, game the system to get that exposure. But we find it's, yeah, you know, third party articles, backlinks and all that work really well when your core information on your website is structured correctly and your data is marked up correctly.
- [09:12]
B
But I would even. Just to follow up with that thought though, Jeff, like I think for your name imprint, like for, for being on a credible company website, like does incredible opportunities for your personal brand, you know, like for SEO purposes. So like, yeah, I just wanted to share that too. I think that that's valuable as well.
- [09:31]
A
So yeah, it, it does credibility. But then when you go down to kind of the machine level, like Matt even had an issue with, because there are, there are, you know, it's a pretty common name. There are multiple Matt Bertrams out there and there are even some who are in a space that's, you know, not directly, you know, kind of competing with what he does, but, but very adjacent and it would be easy for, you know, the machines need a lot of, they need specific, literal information to interpret. Right. And so you Know, it's a question of like, are we going with Matt Bertram or Matthew Bertram? And like, how do we, how do we differentiate him from. From those other ones who are some, you know, kind of public facing figures out there as well? And, you know, yeah, you have to have a really uncommon name to be the only person with your name.
- [10:19]
B
Yeah, really, really good points.
- [10:21]
A
You know, so that's, you know, that's where that structural stuff can come in to like help just really spell it out for the machines. Like, who are we talking about when we talk about this name? So that, and then that goes in with the, you know, the third party exposure and the pr. It's like. But are the machines understanding the entity correctly? Of like, is it this map version versus that map type of thing? So anyways, getting a little nerdy in the reads there, as I tend to do. But so when a client. So let's talk about podcasting in terms of like a tool for getting that exposure. When a client gets featured in a podcast or you interview them on a podcast, what's your, what do you do with that content afterwards to kind of get the most value out of it? Because that's a starting point, right?
- [11:09]
B
Great question. Because my company is filled with a lot of content. Like, that's just, I'm sure you guys in your own way to experience that. So what we do is we promote, we break them up. Because obviously podcasts are long. So how do you splice up the content? Create them into content nuggets and repurpose them over time. So we take episodes, we splice them, we repurpose them in the social media feeds, we repurpose them in like email blasts. Like, we've kind of done a little bit of testing. And then what I've done in the past, I don't do as much now is I really utilized Facebook groups and I used to reshare my content there too, because there are a lot of niche people that are looking for specific things to listen to. So those are things I had done in the past blogs, I definitely have had blogs where people can click and read and listen to them there on my website. And then optimizing YouTube. YouTube is so huge for, you know, visual and audio avenues. So.
- [12:07]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And. And the way we, you know, from our SEO perspective, we refer to it as the second biggest search engine in the world. Right?
- [12:14]
B
Exactly, exactly.
- [12:16]
A
Which it is. Yeah, but that's, that's a really interesting take about, you know, like specific Facebook groups because you've got a, you know, a self selected audience that's interested in a particular topic there. So that's a really great idea.
- [12:30]
B
And even like just to follow up on that thought, like LinkedIn has groups too. That's great. Great for that too. You know, like I used to do that when my podcast was my sole thing. Like that's what I, where I put a lot of my time into. Because there, even though people don't necessarily click and like and comment on things, they're, they're watching. You know what I'm saying? So I think that there's a lot of value to be had there.
- [12:52]
A
Yeah, like, as opposed to just like kind of spraying it everywhere and saying here's our information. You've already got like a, a pre selected, you know, self identified audience of people with a particular topical interest. So if you, if you're a match for that. Yeah, that, that's brilliant for sure. Let's talk about the flip side of visibility. So when a client comes to you with, you know, a negative article that's been published or so, you know, pile of bad reviews that's sitting on page one of Google, do you have a particular kind of approach or playbook for doing damage control for those?
- [13:28]
B
Such a great question. This happened to one of my clients not too long ago. My first. This is maybe your expertise, but I'm speaking from a publicist standpoint. So I always say to first, you can't, I'm sure you guys know, like you can't remove a Google review if it's bad. Like it takes a long time to do that. So I'm always like, reach out to all your other clients you love, like know and trust and have them start reviewing you. So it pushes the crap crap out of that, you know, the bad review down to the bottom. I always say like, that's a great way to start doing that. And then I've totally had clients in the past that have been on television, got so much attention and kind of decided that it wasn't fit for them anymore. They were very intimidated by that. And to just kind of talk about a twofolded area of what you're saying. I think that sometimes there's a lot of judgment that comes with growth and visibility. And so I feel like it's important to build confidence and I'm spiritual, work on your spirituality and I think that really allows you to show up more confidently and translate more positive opportunities for yourself.
- [14:33]
A
Yeah. Having that skill of, of being able to, to kind of face a storm or even like what do people think about me if I Put myself out there publicly is going to be really intimidating for a lot of people. But yeah, on the, on the negative, on the recovering from negative publicity, like with Google reviews, we actually had somebody who gave us a negative review and got very personal about it and started like posting screenshots of emails. You said this and you said, and it was crazy. And we just pointed it out to Google and they're like, yeah, that's not happening. Like, so they removed it right away because this person was completely. Well that's some things. Yeah, so it can be done. But yeah, it's not just a regular bad review. It's when people are like get, get, you know, crossing the line in terms of what they're, they're sharing. But I've also seen it go the other way where you know, just reaching out to the disgruntled customer and saying, hey, how can we fix this? And have, we've seen situations where like a one star turned into a five star review on Google because they had a legit problem with something that happened. It was a different company I was working for but you know, we turned it around and that's, that's not always easy to do, but it can happen. So.
- [15:44]
B
Yeah, and I just want to follow up on your, on your twofold a question because you said something of like bad articles that come out or whatever and I think that's pretty common especially in like, I don't know, celebrity pr. Like you think about the Coldplay concert, like you think about things that have just happened that you just can't. Like it's such a short term thing if you think about it in the big scheme of things that it's almost like you need to not let it consume your own day to day content and focus on other positive things that you or your company can offer. You can't take away what happened, but you can switch the narrative narrative. So like they know that you're not hyper focused on it. Does that make any sense? So I always say, yeah, go ahead.
- [16:23]
A
Yeah, it's like, yeah, we, you don't want to spend a lot of time spinning in that cycle of engaging with the negativity. I think, you know, take the high road, answer it once and then we're moving on.
- [16:34]
B
Exactly.
- [16:35]
A
If it even merits an answer. So, so let's go back to the concept here. With the PR and SEO kind of worlds overlapping, should PR agencies and SEO agencies find ways to collaborate more? And where do you see opportunities for working together?
- [16:55]
B
Yeah, I mean I love, I, I work with a few SEO companies over the years. So I know a lot of value of like I'm not good with back personally, I'm not good with backend website stuff like any of the things to optimize the back end of how to hyperlink things to make them maximize more audiences. So I always say like I can do the front end and I could get more eyes on you from the front front end. But to really double down and grow, you need an SEO company to really optimize it long term. Because my social meet, like my social media that I strategize with in the PR stuff can come off short lived if it's not remarketed and people need to be educated. So like clients are staying on with me for a long time. Like we know how to repurpose the content and all those things. If you're with a PR company for a short term period of time, even though those articles live on those TV news sites forever, if you're not remarketing it or it's not hyperlinked on your website, it's lost, lost money, lost time, all the things. Right. So I'm always like an SEO company can help that front end be more regular, consistent. Does that make any sense?
- [17:58]
A
Yeah, absolutely. No. Some of this content stuff is playing the long game and you know, some content is ephemeral and it's down the river and just we're done with it and other of it will have, you know, kind of evergreen value like depending on what the topic is being discussed. If it's current events, maybe it's not so relevant a year from now. But there are some things that we can talk about that will absolutely be relevant and that there will be, you know, that link will come through three, four years later and that's, you know, it's like podcasting. Oh, we did a podcast. Did we get new customers next month? Well, no, but maybe you got one like two years from now and, but you didn't even have the attribution to know and, and that, you know, that's one thing that we really like to do is, is you know, can we find a way to get attribution and measurement, even over the long haul, right of the investment that we made. But it's also to some extent just understanding that, you know, in the world of search, you know, the machine runs on content and so having a steady flow, which podcasting is a great way to create that steady flow is, you know, it has value. Even if you can't prove the value, you should try to prove the value but even if you can't, like we just trust that it's a good thing to be creating valuable content for people.
- [19:13]
B
I just see. But I don't know if you have like thoughts on this too. But even just the stamp of having like NBC on your website, like NBC, Fox, like I think about all the placements I've done over the years. Like you, even if the article isn't relevant, it's about how you're marketing the placements that you got. Right. Like it's like, how can you like subtly say, like it could have been on something. Like you said, like a tournament that's not relevant anymore, but it's still a stamp on your brand that gives you the credibility to get more people know that you've been placed there, you know. So I think it's a two folded.
- [19:47]
A
Yeah, absolutely. You're making me think of things that I've engaged with in the past. Like they had, you know, sort of audience outreach things where they, they were looking for questions for interviews on cnn. You know, it was kind of cool. I sent in a question and it was an author of a book that I had read and, and they used my question and they asked him the question and they put my name. This question came in from Jeff Campbell. And you know, that was just kind of a cool experience. But it's like, hey, CNN used my question. So I, you know, in a very tiny way my content's been featured on cnn. Right. But they wanted to engage that way.
- [20:19]
B
So it's amazing though.
- [20:21]
A
It's a legit. Yeah, it's cool like that. You can have those, you know, for that as an experience. And that was like, you know, probably like 15 years ago when that happened. I was like, wow, that's so cool that, that, you know, the world was getting to that place where we can, you know, because before you could not reach up to a big media channel like that and get anything on there at all. Like it just so true. Out of reach. Right. So yeah, the world has, has shifted. I'd like to. Okay, so you've inter interviewed celebrities and reality stars. What, what did promoting famous people teach you about promoting less famous people? Was there something from their world that kind of became a lesson about how they went about things?
- [21:06]
B
What an interesting question. Did they teach me anything? So repeat the second part of the question.
- [21:14]
A
Yeah, so, so, so they're, they're automatically, you know, if somebody's a public figure, they probably have a machine around them to help them with their, their PR and their publicity and how they get the message out there or whatever. Did you like pick up any tips from them? As you know, they were like, oh, that's a good. I hadn't thought of doing that before. Or did you pretty much have your game on?
- [21:36]
B
I think I just their level already always. So I think I just talk to them like normal people. I never treat anyone different and I. So I haven't really. I'm being honest with you. Like, I think that that's why I've gotten the interviews I've gotten because they're very impressed with like that I'm not starstruck that I'm just a genuine like want to have a con with you. So I really see everybody is the same no matter what the status is. I think people that are small businesses that have come on just don't have the exposure or have ever been on shows before. So they're definitely way more intimidated, you know, Like, I think the only thing I've experienced at the really high level is we have this limited time frame. This is the amount of time I have, you know, like, it's very like, I'm like, don't worry, we'll be on time. Like it's all good. Like. And they're very impressed by that, you know. So I think that that's the only thing that I've seen that they're like just very regimented in terms of how much time they can give you. You, you know, so. But some aren't like that.
- [22:28]
A
Some are show up, show up, ready and use your time. Well, I guess is the exact take away from. From that one. Yeah, for sure. So blueprints by Jacqueline. What, you know, tell me a little bit about what goes into your visibility roadmap or how you think about that when you're building that roadmap for somebody.
- [22:45]
B
Yeah. So I. Clients come to me when they want to get more publicity beyond tv, be a magazine. So I look at all of their marketing, like for front end marketing. So their website messaging, their visuals, their photo and video content, any partnerships they've done, have they built their personal brand? Any like headshots they have? Like, I look for anything that's outdated, that doesn't depict their bigger goals and we create a message and visuals to get them to the end goal as like the thought leader in their space, as the go to person they want to be. Because for me, I truly feel that you can change careers any day, but you're always your personal brand. Like you can continue to evolve, but you're still Jeff, you know what I Mean, like, so people always know you as Jeff Campbell, and people always know me as Jacqueline, but, like, I could have multiple careers in my life. So I think that that's what I love to hone in on of, like, keeping the consistency of your personal brand where your heart lives, you know.
- [23:43]
A
So, yeah, love it. Love that, you know, that kind of authenticity in the, in the increasingly, you know, flooded with AI content world. I think there's. There's a real, you know, the, the value of, of that personal brand of that, you know, backed by authenticity. Not like just a facade, but, you know, like, hey, here's the real me. Here's what you get. I think that's refreshing to a lot of people. They really engage with that, for sure. And so you're trying to bring that out for your clients, like, help them to find what their voice is or their kind of how to get across, like, who they really are to their audience.
- [24:21]
B
So I. And this is what I'm continuing to teach people, like, the most vulnerable things about your life. You don't have to share everything, but that's where people connect. And so that is something that AI can never take from you. So, like, I love AI. Like, I think it simplifies so many things, but the human connection, it will never replace, you know, like, emotions. And that, that's really what I teach people to get more confident sharing through video, through photos, through how they're communicating it to the world. Like, that's what I love to do. So that's. That's how I do it. So I help direct. Yeah, create and produce all those sort of things.
- [24:57]
A
So, yeah, amazing. You know, I always say that, you know, I'm trying to think about the, like, what. What do humans have that AI doesn't have? Because AI is so impressive. It can do so much. It can do it really quickly. And the thing that AI doesn't have and will never really have is stories from the trenches. Like, it just hasn't had a human experience. Right. It could probably be taught to make stuff up. God help us that that ever happens. We don't want that. But, you know, stories from the trenches, like, real human experience is what is, I think, interesting. Engaging a lot of time to. To people in terms of approaching, you know, when individuals are pitching themselves to media. Do you see any kind of mistakes or, or kind of errors in thinking that people make when they're, when they're first tried to start that process?
- [25:49]
B
Great question. I love this question. So this is where people use too much AI, and this is why it doesn't translate. This is where, like, I think AI is great for a baseline, for a baseline, like, template. Like, create a press release for me. Here's what I'm thinking, yada, yada yada. If you don't know anything about what the reporter's reporting on, if you don't know anything personal about them, they're not going to read your email. They're gonna put it in the trash. So, like, I think this is where the human connection comes in. Like, you need to do your research on who the reporters, editors and journalists are. Like, spend time engaging in their content for a little while. Like, really spend time that you care that you're standing out to them. Because I think they get. Well, I know they get pitched thousands of emails a day. So, like, if you're not standing out in the weeds authentically, it's not being paid attention to.
- [26:41]
A
Yeah. That just reminds me. There's a guy, I'm based out of Canada. There's a guy up here who is a music journalist and he goes by the handle nardwar. The Human Serviette, which is serviette in Canada, is a napkin, basically. Like, he's like the Human Napkin. Funny name, but his whole thing. And he is very well respected in the musical industry, especially with a lot of rap artists, because he will get the deepest, most, you know, the deepest level of research that you could possibly do. Like, he'll find out who your best friend was in grade six and, like, ask you about it in the interview. And people are always. Their jaws just hitting the floor because he's always like, gone back and found out, you know, talked to their mom or something like that and found out, like, the most deepest research that nobody could imagine and built a whole thing on that. And as a result, this guy is like, beloved in the music community because everybody's just like, this guy cares about. And then he also goes and finds gifts. He's like, here's the first original LP you guys issued in, like 1989. And it's, you know, he'll. He'll give it to them as a gift. You know, it's like some obscure piece of, like, memorabilia.
- [27:48]
B
That's amazing. That's really. It's like, I'll tell you, that goes into that. There's definitely a lot of work.
- [27:55]
A
Yeah. But it's like the guy's built his whole career based on, like, deep research, caring more than anybody has ever cared about, like, an interview before, basically. And it's. It's just. It reminded me of that. It's it's kind of wild, actually.
- [28:09]
B
Thanks for sharing that. That's really. But that's like a great example of how to stand out to people. And it absolutely worked. You know what I mean? Yeah.
- [28:19]
A
Yeah. And it was funny because he. He has a very, you know, he wears, like, kind of a funny hat and, like, plaid pants and stuff. He's got a whole shtick to it. And people used to make fun of me, like, get out of here. You know, like, dismiss him at the beginning. There's even some bands who, like, treated them really badly. But over time, as people realize, wow, this guy is like a true fan of the genre and has the background and the research, they just came to love, you know, like Snoop Dogg and like, different people like that just love the guy because. Because of how much he cares about the subject matter. Anyways, good going on a tangent, but I'll send you a link worth. It's really. It's really worth a look if you haven't haven't seen his. His content. Okay, so let's talk now about you've got a magazine as part of your mix. We really, you know, we got podcasting, we got AI Search and PR and all this. But you're also still doing a magazine. How does that fit into your business?
- [29:14]
B
So when I started, I'm from New York originally and now live in Boston. But when I started here in en masse with pr, like, I had no connections. So I was a New Yorker that relocated. I had no connections. And I was like, I'm meeting so many small businesses that have great stories, like, how can I help them? And I went to Canva and I, you know, this was like 2014. I went on Canva and I made a magazine. And it was originally for people that were just on my podcast of stories I was sharing. And it absolutely, like, outgrew my podcast. Guests went international, and I was like, wow. Like, it kind of, like outgrew me. And so it was just my mom and I that put it together for a long time. And then I decided to go down to once a year because it was a huge project. So now I have a graphic designer and I. We just continue to grow. It's really exciting.
- [30:06]
A
So you still do, like, a paper print version of this magazine?
- [30:09]
B
Totally do, yeah.
- [30:10]
A
And like, who do you. Who do you send it to? Like, how does this get distributed and how do you decide?
- [30:16]
B
Great question. So I think the reason I've survived as long as I have is because I print on demand. I print for events that I do for launch events. I have subscribers, but it's more on demand, so I don't have to be obligated to print thousands of copies. So I think that that's another reason cost wise, that it's helped me a lot over the years. It really, like, for me it's just been a passion project. Like, I started with small businesses, then went to celebrities launching business ventures they were doing or new businesses they were launching. And it's just become a really like luxury. Like my goal is to be in private jets because I think that's the type of caliber of people that will actually want the tangible glossy magazine with entrepreneurship articles, you know, so that's. Yeah, yeah.
- [31:04]
A
I mean, it's like it also kind of anchors you in that traditional world of media that we've. A lot of us maybe think, oh, the world has moved beyond that, but it's still a thing. People will pick up a magazine from time to time. But it also, it just gives you that association with kind of a past age of media that's maybe a little bit nostalgic or something that people have that, you know, we've all had that experience at some point in the past picking up and just leaking through a magazine and now you're, you're kind of keeping that alive and connected to it. So it's kind of a cool legacy thing there too.
- [31:36]
B
Yeah, well, I think my whole. The only reason I don't even remember originally I started, right, Because I wanted to help the small business, like share their messages who didn't have contacts in media. So originally started there and then I was like, this doesn't feel sustainable long term. Like, what's the real goal with this? So my goal really was to be a force read in airplanes for print because that's the only place people read tangible magazines. So that's why for so long, at least from a print side, like, that's where I want to be because I can naturally, like can see that not being huge overheads and it's more like, it's more containable, you know. So I have a ton of digital reading. That's where most of my readership is. But for the people that want the physical copies, that's how I can keep it living without feeling like, like I'm overextending myself.
- [32:22]
A
Yeah. And I mean, if it's on planes, like, people would leave it on there probably. Like.
- [32:27]
B
Exactly, exactly.
- [32:29]
A
And do you try to tie it into your like digital at all with like QR codes or is there any kind of.
- [32:35]
B
Oh, totally.
- [32:36]
A
So Are you measuring what comes from the magazine in any way?
- [32:39]
B
Like, I should. I just. Because I just started originally as a passion project, being completely honest here, like I probably should to this day. Like I create bitly links and stuff. Like I. That's the probably the most trackable thing I've done over the years. But outside of that, like, it's just been a passion project. It's been a great networking tool for me over the years. Like between that and the podcast, it's really how I grew my network to where I'm at today, so.
- [33:03]
A
Awesome. Yeah, I love it. I think it's, it's really interesting to be maintaining some kind of legacy media like that in a way, but you know, trying to find a way to fit it in in the modern world that would still be applicable. Yeah.
- [33:16]
B
Thank you.
- [33:17]
A
Cool. Very cool. So what's a PR or visibility trend that everybody's kind of chasing after right now that you think is maybe overhyped or a waste of time? Is there anything like that?
- [33:28]
B
I mean, I think they work. It's just short lived, Right. You look on all the TikTok trends, right? TikTok trends. Everybody from like a small individual, you know, teenager, you know, teenagers, to celebrities that have their own businesses, Fortune 500 companies, they're all getting on these trends. And I think that it's allowing people to feel like they're part of something no matter what your age is, no matter what you look like. I think that that's the beauty of that. I think the one thing though is it is really short lived. So like, I think it's good for a period of time, but that's all that it's good for. Do you know what I'm saying? So I would say like trend wise, like I think the tick tock trends are a great, really fun way to engage with a massive audience of all different types of people.
- [34:10]
A
But it's gonna be gone by tomorrow kind of thing like yeah, hop on that bandwagon. But it's a short ride, basically.
- [34:15]
B
Yeah, but you gotta be on while it's hot, you know what I mean? Like, that's the thing. If you miss it and it's two days later, it is too late because there's a new trend that's out.
- [34:24]
A
Yeah. So respond quickly. Absolutely. So looking forward, what is kind of what's next for you? What's your next move? What's on your horizon? What are you thinking about?
- [34:38]
B
So I'm actually creating a newsroom, so a digital newsroom. So I'm taking, I'M doing more editorial articles online now regularly. That's kind of what I'm focusing on because I've done the magazine, I put my digital magazines online, but I think there's so much happening more regularly now. So I want to create like top 10 businesses to, you know, be inspired by this season or business launches. Because next on scene is like, what's next? Right. So I want to hyper focus on like, what is next that you should know about in the entrepreneurial space and small business space because I feel like there's nothing out there right now that exists with that.
- [35:14]
A
So.
- [35:15]
B
Yeah.
- [35:16]
A
Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. And if people want to find out more about your offering and what you do, where should they go online?
- [35:23]
B
Yeah. Thank you, Jeff. So next on scene.com is a great place to access. We're really most active on Instagram. So next on scene or Jackie Zuck on Instagram. But we're on all the outlets. But I would say Instagram is my favorite platform. So if you reach out there, it probably will be responsive.
- [35:40]
A
Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. It's been really fascinating interview and I definitely gonna follow you online. If you're looking for digital marketing services or SEO or you want to show up at AI search, check out ewrdigital.com that's the sponsor of our show and the founder of our show. So once again, Jacqueline, thank you so much. I really enjoyed our conversation.
- [36:03]
B
Thank you, Jeff. Me too. Great interviewer. Really appreciated it.
- [36:07]
A
Oh, thank you so much. I enjoyed myself. We'll see you online. Take care.
- [36:13]
B
You too. Bye. It. Foreign.