Episode Overview

Podcast: The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™
Episode: Why Old SEO Metrics Fail And What To Track Instead With Corey Morris
Host: Matthew Bertram
Guest: Corey Morris (CEO of Voltage Digital)
Date: February 16, 2026

In this episode, host Matthew Bertram sits down with SEO veteran and agency owner Corey Morris to dissect the rapidly evolving landscape of SEO metrics in the era of AI and Large Language Models (LLMs). Together, they explore why many legacy SEO metrics no longer reflect true business impact, what new KPIs are gaining relevance, and how marketers should rethink measurement, attribution, and reporting to align with how clients—and AI—evaluate brands in 2026.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shifting Foundations—From Classic SEO to LLM Visibility

• Context Change:
  Matt and Corey reflect on their parallel journeys—from traditional SEO and agency building to leading in a time when "showing up in ChatGPT" is becoming the new headline business goal.
• SEO Is Evolving, Not Dead:
  Corey emphasizes that SEO isn’t dead, but what works has evolved dramatically. “Maybe SEO from 2020 is dead. And I think that's where we get into the nuance... SEO in 2026 is different than SEO in 2022” (11:09, Corey).

2. The Debate: Is LLM Visibility Just SEO or Something Entirely New?

• Emerging Divide:
  Matt describes the “huge debate” between those who see LLMs as an extension of SEO, and those who view it as a fundamental shift:

  “There's a huge group...it's still just SEO, right?...and a huge group...it's fundamentally different. And then I look at the data...there is about 30% something overlap. And fundamentally they're trying to get to the same result, but how they get there is completely different.” (05:00, Matt)

• Actionable Layering:
  Both agree foundational, high-quality SEO is the “table stakes”—the entry point for any further LLM or AI-driven visibility.

3. Brand Differentiation, Quality > Quantity, & User Experience

• Back to Brand:
  As classic search traffic and visibility wane, differentiation, user experience, and a solid brand are more crucial than ever:

  “We actually have to do what we've said for a long time in the industry...reinvest in brand strategy, messaging...Because you can't just in mass scale AI-generated content...hope it's going to tell the brand story.” (15:16, Corey)

• Entity Clarity & Data Hygiene: Matt highlights the growing need for clean, unambiguous data and a clearly definable digital brand, so both users and AIs understand exactly who you are.

4. AI Attribution & KPI Headaches

• Attribution in an LLM World:
  Matt introduces the unsolved challenge of measuring when AI is influenced by your frameworks—but doesn’t reference you (20:00):

  “AI influence. So when we get into KPIs, AI is influenced by what you're saying, but is not referencing you...How do you measure that?”

• Move Away from Rankings:
  Both agree classic keyword rankings are almost irrelevant; what matters is measurable business outcomes—primarily revenue.

• Working Backward from Revenue:
  Corey outlines his modern approach:

  “Our dashboards get all the attribution...all the way to leads...and getting close to the sales team...getting to that number and understanding that and customer lifetime value...” (39:08, Corey)

5. The Complexity of Tools & Metrics

• Metrics Are More Theoretical Than Ever
  Matt notes that even with a “GPS” of multiple tools, getting reliable data is challenging—tools frequently give conflicting numbers, and much of the data is "theoretical."

  “Are y’all even looking at keyword tracking? Like, is it accurate? ... They’re telling me different things…is that even data valid?” (43:00, Matt)

• Custom Solutions Over One-Size-Fits-All:
  Both now rely far less on third-party enterprise dashboards, moving instead toward custom visualizations closely tied to client business data and outcomes.

6. New Skills & Mindsets for Modern SEOs

• Beyond Silos:
  To be effective, SEO pros must have broad digital marketing knowledge.

  “If you're not a digital marketer...like the previous experience with the agency of doing all these other things make you better at SEO…They're all woven together, they're not siloed.” (31:23, Matt)

• Changing the Language:
  SEOs must communicate in “boardroom language” and focus on true business KPIs.

• Forward-Looking, Not Backward-Facing:
  Matt observes that executive clients care far more about projections and future outcomes than historical reports.

  “They don’t care about what happened. They care about forward looking, they care about where is it going, what are we doing, what can we expect. And then they want me to put stake my name on it...” (49:40, Matt)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Maybe SEO from 2020 is dead. ...SEO in 2026 is different than SEO in 2022.”
  (11:09, Corey Morris)
• “What we're doing is just like, look at your bottom line. Is what we're doing having an impact? Does it make sense? Is it logical?”
  (21:58, Matt Bertram)
• “No one wants to engage with someone...who works blindly for six months or a year...If someone can’t measure that gap between what we’re doing and how it’s impacting their bottom line...We have to start with—we’re going to get fired even if all our KPIs are up and to the right.”
  (23:19, Corey Morris)
• “The tools are also giving you one data point and you’re like, okay, maybe that’s pulling from over here or over there, but I can’t replicate it or the client can’t replicate it. …Is that even data valid?”
  (44:30, Matt Bertram)
• "It should be looked at as an investment with an expectation of return on investment...It's always been theoretical. You might have been, we might have felt more comfortable with being able to see things in...a linear way before."
  (46:33, Corey Morris)
• "If you don't have a plan, you're just spending money."
  (55:09, Corey Morris)

Important Timestamps & Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:01 | Introductions, career backgrounds | | 05:00 | The SEO vs. LLM Visibility debate | | 11:35 | Real-world example: Getting business via Perplexity LLM discovery | | 14:58 | Brand differentiation, data hygiene, modern brand building | | 18:01 | AI slop, challenges with mass content & the importance of strategy | | 21:58 | Attribution, AI influence, and moving from rankings to revenue | | 23:02 | Why tying SEO to bottom-line business impact is crucial now | | 26:57 | The struggle SEOs face in demonstrating value to executives | | 31:23 | The need for digital marketers to go beyond SEO silos | | 38:56 | The KPI conversation: what to measure now and how | | 42:47 | Tool overload, data noise, and the realities of modern SEO measurement | | 49:40 | Clients want forward-looking projections, not past reports | | 53:49 | Final advice and episode wrap-up |

Actionable Takeaways

For Agencies & SEOs:

• Rethink reporting: Shift focus from rankings to real revenue, lead quality, and impact.
• Prioritize a holistic digital strategy—brand, UX, and product positioning are key.
• Leverage multiple tools, but trust your own custom dashboards tied to business outcomes.
• Communicate with clients in business terms, focusing on projections and strategic advice.

For Businesses:

• Demand your SEO/marketing partners connect activities to granular business outcomes.
• Regularly revisit your plan and KPIs—don’t keep spending just out of habit.
• Recognize attribution in 2026 is (and likely always was) imperfect—work with your agency to synthesize insights, not just chase numbers.

Further Resources & References

Find Corey Morris

• Voltage Digital
• corymorris.com
• Articles on Search Engine Journal, Search Engine Land
• Book: The Digital Marketing Success Plan (DMSP.com)

Crystallized Takeaway

If you don’t have a plan for how your digital efforts drive ROI, you’re just spending money.
(55:09, Corey Morris)

This episode is an essential guide for marketers navigating the new future of SEO—where AI, LLMs, and “visibility” are rewriting the rules, and tying everything to true business impact is more important than ever.