Podcast Summary: SER Historia - "Cronovisor | Los corporales de Daroca"
Date: November 19, 2023
Host: Nacho Ares
Guests: Jesús Callejo, Javier Sierra
Location: Auditorio de Zaragoza (Jornadas de Ocultura)
Overview
This special episode of SER Historia explores the curious case of the "Corporales de Daroca," examining magical, mystical, and legendary aspects of Spanish history. Host Nacho Ares is joined by renowned crononautas Jesús Callejo and Javier Sierra, who share stories and insights about the importance of mystery in history, relics, miracles, and the enduring power of myth and legend. The episode pays tribute to Juan García Atienza, a foundational figure in the study of Spain's “magical history," and delves deeply into the blend of fact, faith, and folklore that shapes our collective past.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Legacy of Juan García Atienza and the "Mágica España"
- Atienza’s Role: Both hosts reflect on Atienza as a pioneer who approached topics traditionally deemed mysterious—not as fringe, but as integral parts of culture and history.
- “El misterio es la propia vida, es nuestra propia mente, es nuestra forma de interactuar con el mundo y es ese pensamiento mágico que a veces tenemos.” – Jesús Callejo [02:54]
- Approach to Mystery: The conversation stresses that “mystery” goes beyond paranormal phenomena; it touches on social beliefs, legends, and collective identity.
- Ocultura: Javier Sierra explains “Ocultura”—the culture of the occult—arguing that miracles, relics, and magical places have played pivotal roles in shaping nations and communities. [04:38]
2. The Miracle of the Corporales de Daroca
- Historical Context: Callejo sets the date—the 7th of March, 1239—and describes a miracle allegedly involving consecrated hosts (the "sacred forms" or "hostias") bleeding on a corporal cloth after being hidden during a Muslim raid.
- “Nos remetimos unos días antes para darnos cuenta por qué este 7 de marzo se está procediendo a esta procesión…” – Jesús Callejo [06:56]
- The Burro's Ordeal: The dispute over the relics’ destination is settled by a trial—placing the relics on a donkey and letting it walk, seen as divine judgment. Daroca wins after a grueling journey.
- “La pobre burra que está por allí, por cierto, una burra sarracena, dice la leyenda... depositan en un cofre de madera y se lo dejan a la burra.” – Jesús Callejo [09:22]
- Miracles and Faith: Discussion ties the event to broader medieval anxieties about transubstantiation, the doctrine that the host is transformed into the body of Christ, with miracles like these reinforcing faith.
- “La Iglesia necesitaba algún tipo de milagro o de hecho que reforzara... el milagro de la transubstanciación...” – Javier Sierra [11:17]
3. España Mágica and Miraculous Traditions
- Proliferation of Miracles: Callejo recounts other eucharistic miracles in Spain and their statistical significance—23 documented, with parallels in Italy (the global leader).
- Earliest in Iborra (Lérida, 1010), most recent in Silla, Valencia (1907). [14:37]
- Origins of Corpus Christi: These miracles spurred the creation of the Corpus Christi festival, celebrated to emphasize the mystery of the Eucharist and the sanctity of relics.
- Folklore and Local Identity: Many Spanish towns developed processions, festivals, and legends as a result of such miraculous events, blending folklore with official Church doctrine.
4. Researching Spanish Magic: Fieldwork, Readers, and “Ornis”
- Fieldwork and Stories from Locals: The importance of in-person visits and local testimonies in uncovering hidden traditions and stories, as recounted during the writing of "La España Extraña".
- “No teníamos Google Maps en aquella época...Fue García Tienza el que inventó los iconos correspondientes a distintos misterios para situarlos sobre los mapas de carretera.” – Javier Sierra [18:51]
- Religious "Ornis" and Other Wonders: Exploration of imaginative medieval chronicles, from flying hosts to "arcones voladores" (flying chests) and miraculous teleportations.
- “Te das cuenta de la imaginación que tenían nuestros cronistas medievales...” – Jesús Callejo [20:16]
5. The Role of Legend and Superstition in National Identity
- Intertwining of Legend and History: The group agrees that legends, miracles, and supernatural stories are essential to understanding Spain’s (and any country’s) cultural and historical identity.
- “Muchos pueblos o zonas están marcadas con estas historias. El Puerto de la Luz en Gran Canaria...por las apariciones de unas luces extraordinarias.” – Javier Sierra [23:59]
- Decálogo de Lugares Mágicos: Mention of a collective effort where 56 authors created a set of criteria for identifying "lugares de poder"—places of power or magic—in Spain. Such places are reflected in city coats of arms and toponyms.
6. Concluding Reflections: Critical Thinking and Memory
- Neither Denial nor Credulity: Callejo argues for a balanced approach: neither dismissing all magical narratives as superstition nor believing everything on faith.
- “Entonces, yo creo que hay que tener un pensamiento crítico, pero sin olvidar que nuestras raíces... tienen que ver con el mito, tiene que ver con la leyenda, tiene que ver con la tradición.” – Jesús Callejo [26:40]
- Identity through Myth: Both guests and the host stress the role of myth and legend as foundational to communal memory and continuity.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
“El misterio es la propia vida, es nuestra propia mente, es nuestra forma de interactuar con el mundo y es ese pensamiento mágico que a veces tenemos.”
— Jesús Callejo [02:54]
“Ocultura es un neologismo que significa la cultura de lo oculto y que... no se entenderían muchas de las cosas que nos suceden si no atendiéramos a los sistemas de creencias, a las historias de milagros, a los lugares considerados mágicos...”
— Javier Sierra [04:38]
“La Iglesia necesitaba algún tipo de milagro o de hecho que reforzara... el milagro de la transubstanciación... El de Daroca no es el primero ni será el último, pero en el caso de Daroca, a mí sí, hay un aspecto que siempre me ha llamado mucho la atención... es el periodo de mitificación.”
— Javier Sierra [11:17]
“Lo semejante tiende a lo semejante. Estamos destinados a conocernos... el universo ha conspirado para que nos conociéramos y... para que se enriqueciera un poco todo ese bagaje cultural.”
— Jesús Callejo [14:37]
“Te das cuenta de la imaginación que tenían nuestros cronistas medievales... cuando hablamos de un lugar mágico, un lugar sagrado, un lugar de peregrinación, por eso se inventaron y se multiplicaron las reliquias.”
— Jesús Callejo [20:16]
“No podemos separar, no podemos dejar de lado estas tradiciones para comprender la historia en su conjunto... son creencias en muchos casos, pero marcan la identidad de una cultura, de una historia, de un estado, de un lugar.”
— Nacho Ares [23:22]
“Hay que tener un pensamiento crítico, pero sin olvidar que nuestras raíces... tienen que ver con el mito, tiene que ver con la leyenda, tiene que ver con la tradición. Y ahí nos asentamos, porque son mitos fundacionales, son mitos de identidad...”
— Jesús Callejo [26:40]
Highlighted Timestamps
- [00:07] - Introduction of Jesús Callejo and Javier Sierra; tribute to Juan García Atienza
- [02:54] - The meaning and importance of “mystery” in history
- [04:38] - “Ocultura”: defining the cultural value of the occult and magical beliefs
- [06:04] - Setting the scene: 7th March 1239, the miracle of Daroca
- [09:22] - The ordeal of the donkey and the relic’s journey
- [11:17] - Miracle narratives and doctrine of transubstantiation
- [14:37] - The proliferation of eucharistic miracles and Corpus Christi
- [18:51] - Fieldwork, local stories, and Garcia Atienza's innovations
- [20:16] - Medieval legends, “ornis” (unidentified religious objects), and flying relics
- [23:59] - Identity, coats of arms, and enduring marks of legend
- [26:40] - Final reflection on myth, reason, and identity
Tone and Style
The episode is lively and affectionate, balancing scholarly reflection with a passion for storytelling. The speakers' admiration for the magical dimension of history is clear, and the tone oscillates between playful banter and earnest analysis, making history approachable and engaging.
For Further Listening
For anyone curious about the intersection of history, legend, and identity in Spain—or who wishes to understand why “magic” is far more than superstition—this is a profoundly insightful episode.