Podcast Summary

Podcast: Service Business Mastery for Skilled Trades: HVAC, Plumbing & Electrical Home Service
Episode: HVAC Hiring Strategies for Service Leaders to Replace B Players with ATS Culture – Ryan Naylor
Host(s): Tersh Blissett & Josh Crouch
Guest: Ryan Naylor (Founder, Ava HR)
Date: July 23, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Tersh and Josh dive deep with HR expert and entrepreneur Ryan Naylor to explore actionable strategies for hiring and retaining “A Players” in the skilled trades. They focus on modernizing recruitment—with a special emphasis on how automation and AI, including Applicant Tracking Systems (ATS), can help business owners stop the costly cycle of hiring and re-hiring “B” and “C” players. The conversation delivers practical advice on creating a compelling employer brand, speeding up the hiring process, and leveraging culture-driven job postings to attract the right talent.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The True Cost of B & C Players vs. A Players

• A vs. B Player Dynamics

  • B players often pose as A players, take credit for others’ work, and can drive top performers away.—Ryan Naylor [07:50]
  • C players are, in the long run, “three times more expensive than A players,” due to mistakes, opportunity cost, and reputation loss.—Ryan [06:08]

• Why Cheaper Labor Costs More

  • “If you paid an A player 30% more willing to pay that 10 bucks more an hour…you’re actually saving money.”
    — Ryan Naylor [06:09]
  • B and C players not only make more mistakes, they lose referrals and harm business growth opportunities.
    [07:09–07:47]

Identifying A Players in the Hiring Process

• Behavioral Interview Techniques

  • A players “remember great experiences with detail.”
    B players’ stories are “foggy in their details.”
    — Ryan Naylor [00:00], [29:14]
  • During interviews, ask candidates to describe a specific instance where they helped a customer overcome their biggest fear. Detailed, passionate answers signal an A player.
    [00:00], [29:14]

• Reference Checks Are Undervalued

  • “You’ve got to do three of them. You gotta ask the right questions.”
    — Ryan Naylor [09:26]
  • The critical question: “If the opportunity presented itself again, would you hire [candidate name] again?” Hesitation signals a red flag.
    [09:53]

• Self-Reflection and the Candidate’s “Why”

  • Ask, “What is your why?” If a candidate cannot articulate their personal motivation, or their answer is shallow, they’re unlikely to be an A player.
    — Ryan Naylor [31:23]

  “My why? I’m here to feed my family. I will literally go die in the ring…to feed my family.”
  — Ryan sharing a story from Cinderella Man [31:15]

Applicant Tracking Systems (ATS): Modern Recruitment for Trades

• ATS Explained

  • “It’s a CRM for hiring—keeping candidates organized, centralizing notes, and publishing jobs for free to all the major job boards.”
    — Ryan Naylor [11:29]
  • ATS automates candidate communications, filters out unqualified applicants, and helps avoid “bottom drawer” resume filing.
    [12:59–13:52]
  • ATS gives small businesses the same reach as corporate giants, but “at a fraction of the cost.”
    — Ryan Naylor [12:59]
  • Automations allow for quick filtering and speed to first contact, which is vital in hot labor markets where top talent disappears quickly.
    [16:24], [23:25]

• Recruitment Workflow Tips

  • Limit unnecessary steps: “For each click, you’re going to lose 5% of your conversions.”—Ryan Naylor [16:53]
  • Use an ATS to automate basic screening and initiate one-way video interviews to assess communication skills efficiently.
    [21:01–21:44]

Employer Branding & Culture Marketing

• Telling Your Company’s Story

  • Stop using corporate clichés (“rock star,” “rocket ship company”). Instead, be authentic: Who you are, what you do, and, most importantly, why you do it.
    — Ryan Naylor [24:21]
  • Example: “We empower dads to have their weekends back by doing their landscaping for them...”—turns a job into a mission.
    [26:26]

• Impact on Applicant Quality

  • “Applicants bought into the vision and…not just chasing $19 an hour to be a landscape technician.”
    — Ryan Naylor [27:21]
  • A compelling story attracts people who are proud of their work and company—a hallmark of A players.
    [27:43]

Speed to Hire and Market Realities

• Why Fast Response Matters
  • “I just looked it up, there’s about 390 HVAC technician job openings on Indeed right now in Phoenix.”
    — Ryan [23:19]
  • “Why would you wait more than 24 hours to call a candidate? Because if you don’t, someone else will.”
    — Ryan Naylor [23:25]

Involving Your Team in Hiring

• Cultural Fit through Team Exposure
  • Example: Company held a “fish-off” community event to let candidates and current techs mingle—real interactions reveal personality and fit in a casual setting.
    — Ryan Naylor [34:22]
  • “You need people that are comfortable talking to strangers. If you can’t talk to someone with a fishing pole in your hand, you probably aren’t going to be talking to someone well with a tool set.”
    — Ryan Naylor [34:35]

Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• “B players will pose as an A player. They'll take credit of the A players, and they will drive the A players out of the business.”
  — Ryan Naylor [07:50]

• On culture fit:

  “Having coming up with events that give people that’s just a little bit outside the norm…can showcase personality is a great way to attract A players but keep the low quality candidates away.”
  — Ryan Naylor [34:39]

• Reference checks, the “killer question”:

  “If the opportunity presented itself again, would you hire [Tersh] again?”
  — Ryan Naylor [09:53]

• On employer branding:

  “Be transparent about who you are as a company and what your North Star is as a business… tell the people side of the story.”
  — Ryan Naylor [24:21]

Important Timestamps

• 00:00 – A vs. B players: behavioral differences in candidate interviews
• 06:08 – Why B and C players are more expensive than A players
• 09:07–09:53 – Reference checks: what to ask and why they matter
• 11:29 – What is an ATS and how does it benefit small business hiring
• 16:42 – Are there too many steps in your hiring process?
• 23:19–23:25 – Market data: hundreds of HVAC jobs open in Phoenix—speed is critical
• 24:21 & 26:26 – Crafting a job posting that attracts the right talent
• 29:14 – The “detail” test for A players vs B players in interviews
• 31:15 – The “why” question, illustrated with a Cinderella Man story
• 34:22–34:54 – Team-involved hiring: the “fish-off” as a culture fit test

Final Takeaways

• Relentlessly pursue A players and don’t compromise just to fill a seat; B and C players are costly, toxic, and drive away your best.
• Modernize your hiring process with an ATS to automate, screen, and communicate—level the playing field with big companies for a fraction of the price.
• Tell a story in job postings that focuses on who you are, what you do, and why you do it. This attracts talent who want more than just a paycheck.
• Move fast: In competitive markets, contact hot prospects within 24 hours, or risk losing them forever.
• Involve your team in culture fit evaluations—casual group settings can reveal much more than a formal interview.
• Always ask, “What is your why?”—and don’t settle for candidates who can’t answer.

Resources Mentioned

• AVA HR: Job posting templates, interview kits, and free resources for optimizing your recruitment
  ava.hr
• Applicant Tracking Systems (ATS): Streamline hiring, boost applicant quality, and automate follow-up
• The E-Myth by Michael Gerber: Referenced as foundational for understanding business growth beyond technical skills

This episode arms service business leaders with modern, practical frameworks and technology tools for identifying, attracting, and keeping the high-caliber team members that truly drive growth. If you’re a home service business owner frustrated with endless hiring cycles, this is the blueprint for breaking the pattern and building a “rock star” team, the right way.