← The Shawn Ryan Show
The Shawn Ryan Show
#139 Nick Bryant - Disturbing Parallels Between P Diddy & Jeffrey Epstein’s Blackmail
02:47:52
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Nick Bryant, welcome back to the show.
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B
Glad to be here, Sean.
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A
The first episode we did was fire. Took off like a bat out of hell. And. And so now you're back.
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B
And take two.
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Yeah, here we go. So we're going to talk about. We're going to kick it off with P. Diddy. What the hell? And then you have a lot of updates on the Epstein stuff and I have some questions as well. And then you got a new book out. When did the book come out?
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The Truth about Watergate came out in March.
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A
It came out in March?
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B
Yeah.
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How's it doing?
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It's doing pretty good. I'm pretty happy with it. The narrative is completely antithetical to the narrative that we hear in the mainstream media, but I fortified it with 2,238 citations. So no one can tell me that I made any of this up.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, hey, so we'll get to it. But first, last. Last time, I think we went through the entire interview and I forgot to give you your gift.
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B
Yeah, I was. I was a little bummed out about that when I realized.
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So I'm going to make it up to you right now.
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B
Well, thank you.
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You got any guesses?
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B
Thank you very much.
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You have to open it on the show. That's the only rule.
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B
I would say. It's gummies.
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A
Good guess. After you open the bag up.
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B
Ah, what do you know?
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A
It's Gummies Vigilance League Gummy Bears. Made right here in the USA up in Michigan actually. And they're legal in all 50 states, which we just had a great conversation about sobriety. So. Yeah, so they fit. It's just candy, but. Well, Nick, I know you don't need an introduction on this show, but I'm gonna give you one anyways. Here we go. You are a journalist and author who wrote several books including the Franklin scandal. In your most recent book, the Truth About Watergate. With over a 30 year writing career, you've focused most of your work on the plight of lower socioeconomic children in the United States. You've spent seven years investigating coast to coast child trafficking networks. You are an investigator of the Epstein network and published Epstein's Little black book. You launched a nonprofit organization, Epstein justice, where the objective is to hold the government and perpetrators in the Epstein Child Trafficking Network accountable. You were on the show last year, but you're back today to discuss the inside scoop on P. Diddy's case, as well as the connection between the COVID up of the Epstein Child Trafficking Network and P. Diddy. I can't wait to get into this. It feels weird even saying I can't wait to get into this. It's so disgusting. But yeah, I got. I got some questions about Epstein as well when we get to that point here. But Nick, we have a. We have a subscription account. It's on Patreon. I think you have a Patreon too.
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Yes, I do have a Patreon.
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So one of the things that we give our patrons is we give them the opportunity to ask a question to each guest. And. And so, you know, it's just. It's. It's Patreon. Our patrons are our top supporters. I wouldn't be here, you wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them. They've been here since the beginning, and so I just love to offer them this opportunity. So this is from Tyler Stud. Despite significant evidence, figures such as Sarah Kellen have not faced the same level of prosecution as Giselle Maxwell. I can never pronounce it.
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Ghislaine. Ghislaine.
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Ghislaine. I'm sorry.
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It's a tough one.
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Yeah, I mean, I would hate. I just hate to butcher her name. But what systemic issues in the legal system prevent these individuals from being held accountable? And what reforms does he believe do you believe are necessary to address this? So one, I have a question. Who the hell is Sarah Kellen?
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Sarah Kellen was one of Epstein's procurers, AKA pimps. And actually the New York Times did an article on six Epstein procures, AKA pimps. And Maxwell was the leading one. But right below her was Epstein's number two, Lieutenant Sarah Kellen. And this woman has led a lot of lambs to the slaughter. She should be serving multiple lifetimes for child trafficking. Child trafficking is 15 to life. And Maxwell only getting 20. Considering that she's been probably trafficking for 25 years is a joke. But with Kellen, she should also be in prison with Maxwell. And again, as we've talked about it last time, we'll talk about it this time. The government has been completely unwilling to prosecute the procurers and the perpetrators in the Jeffrey Epstein network.
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A
Well, it sounds like we're and I know we're gonna get into this, but it sounds like. What did you say her name?
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Sarah Kellen.
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The other one.
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Ghislaine Maxwell.
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Yeah, Ghislaine sounds like she's got a pretty cush prison sentence.
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Well, she's in a dormitory now. And generally people that are in dormitories, prison dormitories, they've been exemplary prisoners. They've done a lot of time, and they're getting ready to get released. And Maxwell got into a dormitory after, like, two years. So obviously she's been given very cush circumstances.
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Why do you think that? Why do you think the media is so hesitant to cover this shit?
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I can speak from my own experience.
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I'm not hesitant. They just won't cover.
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They won't cover it. The media.
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Are they pro sex trafficking? Is that what it is? They like child sex trafficking?
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Well, the media will talk about things that are salacious. Anything that's salacious with Epstein, the media will talk about. But when you try to get into justice, the media won't go there at all. In January, I was contacted by cnn. There was going to be a big Epstein dump, document dump. And I was contacted by cnn, and because I was the guy that put the black book on the Internet, they wanted me to take part. And I talked to the producer, and then we were texting. I said, I'd also like to talk about Epstein Justice. It's this organization I've started where we're trying to get justice for Jeffrey Epstein's victims. And then I got a text about, I don't know, 20 minutes later. Well, you know, Nick, we're gonna go a different direction.
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Really?
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Yeah. And that's happened to me.
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So they don't. So the mainstream media, they don't want any. They don't want any justice for these victims?
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No. I mean, it's so bizarre to me that you've got the mainstream media out there and none of them are screaming for justice. Jeffrey Epstein trafficked underage girls for 25 years.
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What is the youngest girl on record that he trafficked?
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Okay, so on record, it's 13. The COVID story is 14. But there were girls younger than actually 13. And I know a therapist. She's an eminent therapist. Over the years, I've been researching, writing about child trafficking for 22 years. And the national center on Sexual Exploitation puts on an international summit, and I've spoken at the summit three times. And the international site for the study of Trauma dissociation, which is a group of therapists that work with victims that have been Abused, gone through horrific abuse. I've spoken at their international conference. So when it comes to people in the anti trafficking community and also people that work with victims of trafficking, I've got a pretty good name. And I befriended a couple of them that have told me that. And one of them is really an eminent psychologist. She, I mean, I can't, because of our confidentiality, I can't. But she, people would know her. And she had a victim, she was counseling someone who she felt was under 10 years old when she was traveled by Epstein. And then I know another therapist who's an esteemed therapist, very esteemed therapist, who has another client that was under 10 years old when they were trafficked by Epstein. Now, and these kids can describe Epstein's home, they can describe Parks by his, that they were taken to by his home in New York. They know, and these two therapists firmly believe now they're young women, that they're telling the truth. And the thing is, when I wrote the Franklin scandal, I mean King and Spence, the two primary pimps in that network, they were into like adolescent boys. But these guys are psychopaths. Epstein's a psychopath, Maxwell's a psychopath. If you want an 8 year old, they'll get you an 8 year old. I mean, that's just the way it is. I mean it's not like they've, they're constricted by any type of morality.
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A
I mean, so how would they, I think we talked about how they got the other victims that were 16, 17, you know, how do they, how are they capturing 8 year olds, kidnapping them?
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B
Well, they were, no, they were buying them in Eastern Europe. They were actually buying children. Epstein and Jean Luc Bernard were buying children in Eastern Europe. And what I've seen like in the Franklin scandal, Boys Town was being plundered by Lawrence King, one of the pedophilia pimps. And the number two guy at Boys Town at that point, his name was Father James Kelly. I hate to call him Father, but his name was James Kelly. And he'd molested a number of kids in upstate New York. And the Catholic Church in its infinite wisdom, put him at Boys Town. And I was told by every year, the students of Boys Town are like the mayor. A Boys Town is like an incorporated city. And I was told by a former mayor of Boys Town that he felt that Father Kelly was compromised. And that's how these kids were able to get passes for the weekend because, and you know, it's kind of, I was just looking when I was looking at Boys Town. I was just looking for kids that had been trafficked by Lawrence King. But then I encountered, like, six kids that had been molested by James Kelly. So it's shocking. The Catholic Church knew what he was about in upstate New York, and then they moved him to Boys Town.
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They have a history of this, though, don't they?
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Oh, yeah. The Catholic Church moves the priesthood. I mean, that's why they're getting sued into oblivion now, is because they were fully cognizant of the behavior of these priests. And then they would move them to a different parish.
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They just picked up a Catholic priest here in Franklin for doing that. I don't know if they charged him or if he got a guilty verdict, but, yeah, they did. It was. I don't know, maybe. Actually, I think it was right before last Christmas. When it came out. No, it was right after. It was right after. Yeah. Yeah.
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The Catholic Church is, you would think, would come to the point where it would be transparent, and whatever happened, happened. You would think it would be a spiritual organization. And I know people that are Catholic that are very spiritual.
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Abu's Catholic.
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Yeah. And you're very spiritual. But I think when you run, you know, when you. Institutions. When something becomes an institution, and we've seen this a lot, institutions become concerned about their power, their money, and their prestige. And they put that above. Like Penn State is an example. They knew that the Penn State people knew that Jerry Sandusky was molesting those kids. But it was concerned about its power, money and prestige. The Catholic Church. Money, power, prestige. The Boy Scouts. Money, power, prestige. That's just institutions become that way. Institutions like the Boy Scouts, I believe, started out with the purest of motives. But then at a certain point, it became concerned about its money, power and prestige. And it knew about a bunch of these. It had a big list of scoutmasters that had molested kids.
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You know, going back to the. I just have some questions before we really dive into the interview. And, you know, with the. I just don't understand why they're not going after him. And is everybody guilty? I mean, like, why did everybody have a hand in this? Like, why is nothing happening? Why is. I mean, the judge almost got assassinated. What is going on? What are those paintings of George Bush throwing airplanes at two Jenga Towers at Epstein Island? What is the painting with Bill Clinton wearing a dress and red high heels? What is that? Is that a. Is that a. I gotcha. You better not say anything ever. There's a lot of symbolism in those.
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It's definitely entirely possible Epstein had a very warped mind. But despite that, he pandered to other people with warped minds, and perhaps he had insights. I believe Epstein was intelligence for sure. And he was in a very high strata of intelligence. And when Clinton was president, Epstein was providing him with women. He was signing into the White House and providing him with women. I don't think that they were minors, but they were definitely young women. So even when Epstein is. Or even when Clinton's the president, Epstein is delivering women to him in the White House. So someone like that has a lot of dirt on a lot of people, knows a lot.
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A
Yeah. So what is he holding the entire US Government on? Blackmail?
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Well, obviously not anymore. The thing with Epstein, and this is where people don't really understand, Jeffrey Epstein by himself couldn't blackmail anyone. Jeffrey Epstein was a college dropout from Coney island, kind of a working class family. A guy like that couldn't blackmail the most powerful men in the United States and the world. He has to have an organization behind him. And that organization tells people, if you harm Jeffrey Epstein, there's going to be retribution. That's the only way that Jeffrey Epstein can blackmail some of the most powerful men in the world is if there's an organization behind him that has a lot of power.
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A
What organization was behind him?
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There's some dark corner of intelligence that's been doing this forever. And I don't know what you call it. Some people would call it the deep state. I just. I don't know, I call it some dark, malignant corner of intelligence. And that dark corner has been doing nefarious things for a long time. And I understand some of the reasons. I knew someone that knew William Colby very well. He was a former CIA director that went canoeing in April. He was 76 years old, and he went canoeing in April without his shoes. And his body was found, I think, like a week later. So he died under very suspicious circumstances. But he had told this individual that. I know that was one of his regrets because Colby had been with the CIA from the very beginning. He was OSS and then CIA. He said that was one of his regrets, is that they felt like fighting communists was too important to be left to politicians. So they started funding mechanisms, covert funding mechanisms, and then also the blackmail, too. And he said that that was one of his big regrets was that the CIA started these covert funding mechanisms so it could basically do whatever it wanted.
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Interesting. Do you think I have another. I'm gonna switch the flow of the interview. Let's just get into the Epstein stuff. Right now, since we're in it. But do you think that. You gotta be careful how I say this, but basically what I'm saying it. I'm not gonna try to beat around the bush. Do you think that all of the clients were pedophiles or did they get tricked? Do you think that is what was going on? Because wouldn't that. Yeah, I get it. They're cheating on their wives. It's bad. But they didn't knowingly. Do you see what I'm getting at? They didn't know. I mean, look, Nick, you can get on Instagram right now and look at all the private. The, what do they call the private jet stewardesses. And they all look the same. Have you seen. You know what I'm talking about?
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B
I don't. Well, I'm not much of an Instagram guy, so.
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A
They look like they just walked out of the strip club and jumped on a jet. Yeah. And so that's what I'm. So we know what's going on on private jets. Okay. I mean, it's pretty obvious what happens with those type of stewardesses. And so it may not even be uncommon. I mean, I don't know. I don't fly around on private jets, but it may not even be uncommon, you know, for that to be, you know, part of the flight routine. Right. And so maybe this is just another flight where they're used to this happening and. But this time it's. Oof. Yeah, that was. Yeah, that was a 17 year old, by the way. You're on camera, you know, because wouldn't that turn the. Wouldn't that turn the. Wouldn't that turn them into somewhat of a victim as well?
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B
Well, I think all the above to what you said. I think sometimes they're tricked, but Epstein was frequently pandering 14 year olds and we know he was pandering 13 year olds. And I don't think it would be hard to differentiate between a 13 year old or 14 year old and an adult. And as I said earlier, Epstein, I believe, pandered kids that were under 10 years old. So I think it's all the above. Guys could have been tricked for sure with some of these young women that looked like adults. But then some guys are just. They're pedophiles. I mean, they totally. Yeah, I mean, that's their thing. That's what they're into. Like Epstein, he. His thing was pubescent girls.
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A
You know what I mean, though? I mean, you definitely have your repeat offenders.
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B
Yeah.
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I mean, we all know who they are. At least a couple of them, you know, but there's also people from my understanding that were, you know, one time offenders or supposedly. And I don't know, I'm just, I thought a lot about this and like I said, you know, it's yes. Are they stand up citizens by flying around in private jets and doing whatever to women? That goes on, on their. No, they're not standup citizens, but I mean it is. They're not doing anything anybody else isn't doing. And at least it's not uncommon. And so to trick somebody like that I think would be relatively easy, especially with a 16, 17 year old.
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B
The 16 or 17 year old? Yeah, I think so. I got to a black male photographer who was part of the Franklin Traffic network and I was initially cutting my teeth on the story. I was trying to figure out how I was trying to figure out so much stuff. And I asked him about the blackmail angle and he said to me, it's like you're on a yacht and it's a beautiful yacht, it's a beautiful day and you can have anything you want on the yacht. But if you decide to get off the yacht, the people on the yacht are going to make sure that you drown. So once you've been compromised, there's almost an incentive to keep going with it. I mean, you're not going to stop. I mean, there's already footage of you, you're part of that club, you're part of that omerta where you're going to keep your mouth shut and do what you're told.
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A
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B
In the Black Book? Yeah, a bunch of them, but not all of them were pedophiles.
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A
But how many were clients?
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B
Estimation probably 50 or 60.
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A
50 or 60?
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B
Yeah, and I could be wrong. There were a number of names that were circled. How the blank book came into my possession, I can't really get into the definitive machinations, but Alfredo Rodriguez was a house manager for Epstein and he made copies of the Black Book and he tried to sell it to one of the attorneys that were representing some of the kids that Epstein molested. And the attorney called the FBI and the FBI did a sting on him and according to the affidavit of the FBI agent, she said that the ones that were circled were ones that he felt were incriminated. And there were a number of very powerful guys that were circled and like Bill Clinton wasn't circled. But Epstein had 25 contact numbers for him. And that's another indication too with the Black Book is how many contact numbers does Jeffrey Epstein like? He only had two contact numbers for Mick Jagger. So I doubt that he and Mickey, although Mick Jagger is, I think according to Mackenzie Phillips, he molested her when she was I think 12 or something. But I don't think that although Epstein had a couple of numbers for Jagger, I don't think that he provided Jagger with children. And it's not because I like the Rolling Stones, it's just with only two contact numbers now, I haven't really seen anything where they're together. But there's a lot of other people in that book that are circled and I think that that tends to incriminate. I think Alfredo Rodriguez, I mean he was at Epstein's. He was Epstein's house manager for quite some time. So he knew a lot of what was going on. And then the FBI ultimately impounded the book. And then I got it from some people who got it from the FBI and it's. I mean it really shows the breadth of his social connections. Now people have argued that. It's kind of funny. Like Mother Jones had an article where some guy called everybody in the Black Book and no one knew Jeffrey Epstein in the Black Book. I don't know him. I don't know, never met him. So see how they run that cracked me up. Interesting. And Mother Jones was actually that writer was seemingly naive enough to believe that nobody in the Black Book knew Jeffrey Epstein.
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A
Well, let's talk about some of the stuff that has come up since we last spoke.
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B
Well, I've gotten a beat on the Epstein Victims Compensation Fund and that's really a superlative cover up tool. There's 225 women have applied for settlements from the Epstein Victims Compensation Fund and the fund has awarded 150 settlements. Eight women have declined. But if you get a settlement from the Epstein Victims Compensation Fund, you've got to sign an NDA which says that you will not go after any of your other perpetrators. So it's shutting down. Meaning you can't go after anybody else. You're going to get this settlement.
- [31:10]
A
Anybody that was in that black book is off limits to everybody who's signed.
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B
And that the Epstein Victims Compensation was started by Jordana Feldman and then David Boies. And David Boies is a power broker attorney in New York. Well, he's a Famous attorney. But David Boies has a very, very dark side. And we don't even know the criteria that they use for awarding settlements. These two therapists who I talked to, they helped their clients apply for the victim's compensation. The therapists who had the clients that were under 10 when they said they were trafficked by Epstein, they were not awarded any kind of settlement. Even though one of the kids knew a lot about the inside of Jeffrey Epstein's home. And both therapists who I've talked to felt that they weren't awarded any money because it went against the COVID story. The COVID story by the mainstream media is that the kids were 14. There wasn't anybody younger than 14. That's the mainstream media. So because it went against the COVID story, those clients weren't awarded any money from the victims. And we have no idea, as I said, of the criteria that's used. I mean it's, it, it's really random. And some get six figure settlements and some get seven figure settlements. We don't really know. I mean it's, it's not transparent at all.
- [32:55]
A
Who's. And it's this attorney that's in charge of it.
- [32:58]
B
Jordana Feldman and David Boies were the architects of the victims compensation fund.
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A
Where's the money come from?
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B
Epstein's estate, which has a lot of money. And David Boies has shown that he's not an exemplary paragon of ethics.
- [33:25]
A
How so?
- [33:26]
B
He's quite fond of using Black Cube, the retired Mossad mercenaries he represented. Harvey Weinstein and Rose McGowan was one of the first actresses that came out and said, you know, she had been molested by Harvey Weinstein. And David Boies deployed Black Cube against her and they infiltrated her life under false pretenses and tried to get her to say incriminating things that could be used against her, which she didn't. I mean, she ultimately figured out that these guys were, I don't know if she figured out they were Black Cube, but she ultimately figured out. And then the New York Times was writing an article about Epstein. There were a number of reporters of it, and he deployed Black Cube against them, these New York Times reporters, trying to find dirt on them. And at the same time he was representing the New York Times in a libel suit. I mean, total conflict of interest. But it wasn't even a speed bump. And David boys, Theranos, Elizabeth Holmes, the charlatan who came up with Theranos and how it was going to be able to take your blood and tell you everything that you needed to know about your life. People started to attack her. And David Boies deployed Black Cube on them too. He was actually on Theranos board. So this is the kind of guy that we've got that's overseeing the victim's compensation, the Epstein Victims Compensation Fund.
- [35:06]
A
Wow. When did you find out about Black Cube?
- [35:13]
B
At some point between the last time I was here.
- [35:15]
A
And how would you describe them?
- [35:17]
B
Well, the retired Mossad agents.
- [35:22]
A
Only Mossad agents.
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B
I think it's. Well, they're on Israel, so they might be other type of Israeli intelligence agents, but definitely retired Mossad. And they do dirty deeds, but they don't do dirty deeds done dirt cheap. They just do dirty deeds. And I think they charge an exorbitant amount for them. And we've got David Boies using Black Cube to protect Harvey Weinstein. And the same guy is one of the architects of the Epstein Victims Compensation Fund, which really shows pretty much right out of the gate that something is seriously awry with the Epstein Victims Compensation Fund.
- [36:06]
A
Yeah, yeah. What? So, I mean, how do they operate? How does Black Cube operate? Let's hear a scenario.
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B
It all depends upon. It's gathering intelligence on people. Like they went after David Boies deployed Black Cube on these journalists that were writing an article on Harvey Weinstein, and they were just looking for dirt on them that they could use to dissuade them to continue writing that article. And with Rose McGowan, they kind of infiltrated her life as, like, friends. And I mean, who knows what they were trying to do with her. I mean, probably trying to get her to exonerate Harvey Weinstein, but she never did. I mean, and she's been pretty much banished from Hollywood. Even though a bunch of women came out. She was like one of the first and the most vocal. And Harvey Weinstein had gotten away with that stuff for years.
- [37:17]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's.
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B
You know, I've kind of come to think that Hollywood and Washington D.C. have a certain kind of person.
- [37:32]
A
Gee, I wonder what leads you to believe that.
- [37:35]
B
But they're both. It's kind of interesting, both people In Hollywood and D.C. it's a power thing. They have a tremendous amount of power. People in Hollywood have the power to really sculpt Americans attitudes about a lot of different things. And of course, people in Washington D.C. have the power to make laws that govern all of us. And Hollywood Babylon, There was a book written by a guy named Kenneth Anger. Kind of a nasty piece of work, but he wrote a book called Hollywood Babylon. And someone needs to write a book called Potomac on the Sodom and Gomorrah on the Potomac. I mean, I think that would be a good book. That might even be one of my next books. I don't know. Sodom and Gomorrah on the Potomac by Nick Bryant, that'll be a good one. But with David Boies, it's. He's handled all this litigation and these women have to sign these NDAs. So the government has worked very hard to cover up Epstein, but it cannot tell these women that they can't sue their perpetrators, these other perpetrators. But if you get money and sign that NDA, that Victims Compensation Fund is doing something that the government can't.
- [39:17]
A
Why do you think that he hasn't employed Black Cube on you?
- [39:25]
B
You know, maybe he has. I'm just kind of too obtuse to know. I mean, I mean, I know I've had one death threat, but I might have had others. I'm just, I'm just too much of a. I'm too thick headed. I'm not inclined towards paranoia, so who knows what happens? I don't know. If you write the kind of stuff that I write, you cannot really be paranoid. If I had paranoid inclinations, I'd still be underneath my bed.
- [40:06]
A
What else have you uncovered?
- [40:09]
B
So what's really interesting is when David Boies started taking on these clients, these Epstein victims, he immediately or quickly conscripted a guy named Stan Pottinger, who was an assistant U.S. attorney General, and I call him the Forrest Gump of coverups. If the government needed a cover up, Stan Pottinger would be there. He covered up Kent State where the four students got shot by National Guardsmen. There was a tape, the Justice Department had a tape of those soldiers being ordered to shoot. But the grand jury that Pottinger oversaw, that tape was never played. And actually that tape didn't come out till like 2005. So he covered that up. And the FBI had a program called cointelpro in which it completely trampled on the rights of Americans. Open mail and it, it sent a Cohen. During this period, a letter was sent to Martin Luther King, who was about to get the Nobel Peace Prize. And it had, I think it had like some tapes of King having an affair. And the letter, which I believe was written by William Sutherland, who was like the number three guy, told King that he needed to commit suicide before he accepted the Nobel Prize or these tapes would come out. Coretta King, his wife, was called and told about his affairs. So it was really. Cointelpro was really nasty, especially like with the American Indian Movement and also the Black Panthers. And there's evidence that cointelprot definitely contributed to the death of Fred Hampton, who was a Black Panther in Chicago. But there was a member of the American Nanny Movement named Emory Acquish. And the FBI floated information that she was an informant and she was murdered by two members of the American Indian Movement because they thought she was informant. So the church hearings, which looked into cointelpro, found all this stuff out about what had been going on. And they had 20,000 pages of documents, and they'd interviewed a number of FBI agents. And Stan Pottinger was going to come in and he was going to exact justice. And no one got indicted. Not a single person was indicted for cointelprobe.
- [43:22]
A
Wow.
- [43:22]
B
When Stan Pottinger was the assistant attorney general and Richard Helms, the CIA had a program called Operation Chaos where they were also doing domestic spying. And Stampandra was going to exact justice with that. And Richard Helms testified before Congress that he hadn't, that no Americans had been spied on. And then the church hearings found out that a lot of Americans had been spied on and their mail had been opened and other things. And Stan Pancho was getting to the bottom of that. And Richard Helms was charged with two misdemeanors and charged and had to pay $2,000. And it's kind of interesting. Stamponter was also. He went out with Gloria Steinem for nine years. Now, she was a CIA asset. Also the founder of the American of Americans, or Women's Liberation. I mean, Steinem was getting money from the CIA. Now, she said that she was getting money in 59 through 61. But I found an article in a feminist magazine out of San Francisco that she was getting money from the CIA for the majority of the 60s. So her and Stan Pottinger were a couple and CIA assets. And love, what a wonderful story. But when Stan Pottinger left the Department of Justice, then he became an outright criminal. There was the October Surprise, where the Iranians had taken a number of hostages and Carter was trying to get the hostages back. And it was really making Carter look weak. And some people from the Reagan campaign went to the Iranians and said, if you hold those hostages until Reagan is elected, we'll sell arms to you very cheaply. It was Iran Contra, and Panjer was in on the. According to the president of Iran, Panjer was in on the ground floor negotiations of Iran Contra. And then. Now, this is kind of amazing. He is caught on tape instructing these Iranians how to best smuggle Arms from the US To Iran. I mean, they got him. He's on tape talking to these two Iranians about it. And lo and behold, the Department of Justice loses the tape. So. And that paragon of integrity, Rudolph Giuliani, was overseeing the case. So, Stan, I mean. And that's treasonous. I mean, to facilitate arms sale to an enemy, I mean, that's outright treason. But Pottinger block. So here is the guy that David Boies conscripted to help with all this litigation. And it's very obvious that Pontier has had a background in intelligence, and Epstein was an intelligence op. So essentially, what you've got with Pottinger is you've got an intelligence op being covered up by an intelligence op.
- [47:03]
A
Wow. How do you find this stuff out? Where do you go digging for this?
- [47:13]
B
I just. It just kind of comes to me. I don't know. It's interesting. When you're investigating something and you know what the truth is, or you have a kind of an approximation of the truth, you can generally find stuff that's going to corroborate it. If you're actually onto the truth. And that's what I've done for my entire career, is felt where I felt like I was onto the truth, then the information just falls. I mean, you got to dig.
- [48:03]
A
Do you have a lot of people coming to you as well?
- [48:06]
B
I do.
- [48:06]
A
And you've been out there now for a while.
- [48:08]
B
I do. I mean, some of them are, you know, need some psychiatric help.
- [48:15]
A
I was wondering, how do you decipher through that?
- [48:18]
B
It's tough because some of this stuff is way out there. And although people are describing something that's way out there sometimes, you never know.
- [48:27]
A
We've seen lots of things that are way out there in the past four years.
- [48:31]
B
That's true.
- [48:33]
A
And, I mean, I never thought I'd be talking about UFOs and aliens and shit, I'll tell you that much.
- [48:39]
B
Here we are with. It's kind of interesting. There was a point where I can remember the Franklin scandal got published in 2009, 2010, and I'd put everything I had into it. I put all the chips on the Franklin scandal, and my girlfriend of five years had left me, and I had a beautiful one bedroom in the Village, and the price got amped and I could no longer afford it because I put. I'm one of those guys with life. I'm. I'm not really a gambler. Like, I'll gamble 100 bucks over the course of an NFL season, but I'll certainly Gamble my career. And when the Franklin scandal got published, I had about a year's worth of money and I thought I can get something done in a year. And I had a lot of friends that were in the media in New York. Only one guy tried to help me. The rest shunned me. I went to LA and tried to sell it and I came really close but I wasn't able to sell it. So at the end of that year I found myself, I'm not a plan B kind of guy. I moved to New York City with like, I don't know, 15 or 20 grand and I started my, I mean I'm from Minneapolis, I had a lot of stuff published in Minneapolis. So by the time I got to New York I had a pretty good portfolio. And I moved into this studio apartment that I called the Cave because it had no light, it had windows, but then there was a wall right next to the windows. So I mean I had to open the door and look outside to see, you know, if it was raining or sunny or whatever. So I was living in the Cave and my rent was like $750 or something like that. And I thought to myself, should I get a part time job or should I just go for it? And I just said, well, I'm just going to go for it. So I just started and this is before the Internet with email and stuff like that. So I just started. I had little packets that I'd put together my clips and then I in priority mail and I'd send them out. And I didn't have a plan B. If that didn't work out, I mean I was going to end up in the park. So there was a strong incentive for me to make that work out. And I had a pretty good job in academia that I just kind of walked away from. Well, I mean it was kind of mutual. I think that was very secure. But I'd reached a point where I didn't, I just wasn't compatible with it. So the plan A there was, you know, move to New York and if I didn't succeed, I didn't have a plan B. So when the Franklin Scanner was published, I just thought I'm going to make plan A work and because I'm not a plan B kind of guy. But plan A did not work and I found myself living in a hovel in Brooklyn. Wow. Now I don't have anything against Brooklyn, but I was there for about a year and that was kind of a hard time for because I had to kind of restart my career. And one of my friends who was kind of a big shot at network, he was the only one that apologized to me. I said, nick, I'm really sorry. You know, I could have been a better friend to you when you went through all those difficulties.
- [52:45]
A
Yeah.
- [52:45]
B
So one of my friends in the media. One was. That's it said, you know, I'm sorry that I banished you from my life, man.
- [52:57]
A
Man. Well, I hope you stay hot on the Epstein trail. One more question before we kind of move on to P. Diddy. Do you think Epstein killed himself.
- [53:16]
B
In the Franklin scandal? There were two primary pimps. There was Lawrence E. King, and he kept his mouth shut, did 10 years, and then he had a no show job waiting for him at a BMW dealership in Alexandria, Virginia. And then there was Craig Spence, who was really the blackmail side of things. And the thing about Epstein and Spence, there was so much media on Epstein that he could not be a blackmail artist if everybody knows that he's. That is. That is how Holmes are equipped with audiovisual surveillance. And he's got young girls. I mean, people are not gonna wander into that honey trap. And the same thing happened with Spence, but both of them had a tremendous amount of media on them. Now, Spence killed himself. People think that he was suicided. I think my take on Spence is that he was given the choice. Either you can kill yourself or we can kill you. And he checked into the Boston Ritz and he wore a tuxedo, and he took an overdose of nortripyline, which is an antidepressant. And then he had a clipping next to him about CIA agents being called before government bodies to testify. Because he was called before a grand jury to testify. I think he ducked it. I don't know whether or not he was part of that. And I think Epstein. The same thing happened with Epstein that he had become too. There was just too much notoriety on him.
- [55:07]
A
And you think he got the choice?
- [55:10]
B
I think so.
- [55:11]
A
You think they relaxed the security so that he could make that decision himself? Yeah.
- [55:18]
B
I mean, the thing about Epstein, like, I've had some networks come, like vice called me and said, we'd like to talk to you about whether or not Epstein killed himself. And I said, to me, that's kind of like a red herring, because the most important thing with Epstein is that the government is covering up child trafficking. And all these perpetrators have molested all these little girls with impunity. That is the most important thing. And I think that his death is a way to steer people away from that. So I Mean, with Epstein, if he didn't kill himself, I'm sure he had some help.
- [56:06]
A
Well, I mean, I think it's an important part of the discussion because it shows how corrupt our government is. Correct. And what they will do to keep this from seeing the light of day. Well, William Barr was in charge themselves from being prosecuted.
- [56:26]
B
It's William Barr was the Attorney General under Trump that covered all this up. And that guy is really dirty. Your viewers Google William Barr and there's going to be a lot of dirt that comes up about William Barr. And what's really interesting about William Barr is the Franklin scandal was covered up by the Bush 1 administration, that network and Richard Thornburg was the Attorney General and William Barr was the number two guy. Then ultimately Richard Thornberg went to run for Senate in Pennsylvania and then William Barr became the Attorney General and he covered the Franklin network up there were two federal grand juries that covered the Franklin Net bureau. One in Nebraska and one in Washington D.C. and then lo and behold, he's Trump's Attorney General covering up the Epstein network. And it's really interesting because Donald Barr, William Barr's father, hired Jeffrey Epstein in 1974 to teach at Dalton School. And Epstein was not qualified. He was a college dropout. And Dalton is one of the most exclusive preparatory schools in the world. And what I found, so I was looking through Interlaken is like an art school in Northern Michigan. And they have a summer camp. And I've got a picture of Epstein. And this is weird, it's a yearbook, but it doesn't have any names. But there's a picture of Epstein, a young Jeffrey Epstein in 1967. And then there's someone that looks like William Barr or a doppelganger of William Barr attending that camp that year. And your viewers can go to my website and I show the pictures and then I juxtapose the picture of who I believe is the young William Barr with the old William Barr. Now, Interlochen has said that William Barr didn't attend that camp, but it couldn't say that Epstein didn't attend the camp because Epstein gave them $500,000 to build the Epstein Lodge, which is no longer the Epstein Lodge, but it's interesting. So there are those two pictures and then seven years later, Barr's father hires Epstein to be to work at Dalton School. And I don't know if he molested any girls there, but he was certainly, according to what I've read, he was very inappropriate. Epstein, yeah, with some of the girls there.
- [59:29]
A
Man, this shit Just keeps getting deeper and deeper.
- [59:34]
B
Well, it's, I mean, that's why I formed Epstein Justice. I have seen these pedophile networks at work. I've seen them covered up. I've done two podcasts on the snow killings, which. It was a huge pedophile network and Francis Sheldon was a wealthy guy and he ran it and he bought an island. This was like an Epstein island before Epstein. This was in the 70s. He bought an island and had a Runway built and he would fly kids to the island where they'd get molested and he'd make child pornography. And there were four kids that were dumped on highways or roads within like 11 month period of time. And I think that there were a number of pedophiles in that network that definitely knew about it and probably participated in killing all of them. The killings were pinned on Christopher Bush and Christopher Bush ostensibly committed suicide, but there was no blood splatter. I mean the whole thing was, it was really poorly staged as far as like suicide. It was kind of a ramshackle exploit. But there's that network, Francis Sheldon. Nothing ever happened to him. I mean he went to Amsterdam and then he ultimately ended up at an orphanage in India where he could molest kids to his heart content. There's the Franklin network, there's Epstein network. I mean all these networks have been covered up, man. And we as Americans, I mean all.
- [61:40]
A
Of these networks, I mean we did. Did you watch that movie the Sound of Freedom by chance? Yes, I interviewed Jim Caviezel.
- [61:46]
B
Uh huh.
- [61:47]
A
They took it down. They took the video. Had like, I just looked it up. Had like 1.8 million views, pulled it. Just like, no warning, no nothing. Too much traction on this subject, no reasoning, they just pulled it down.
- [62:07]
B
I mean that. So with Epstein, Alexander Acosta was the U.S. attorney for the District of Southern Florida and he had a list of 36 Epstein victims. I have the list. And he was going to impanel a grand jury to go after Epstein, but he was told to stand out because Epstein was intelligence. And I believe that constitutionally there are only two people that can tell a US Attorney to stand out. One is the President, one is the Attorney General. I mean, the message can be delivered by the President or the Attorney General, but it has to emanate from one of those two positions. So that is very telling of how much power is there to cover up Epstein. According to state and federal law enforcement, not a single child was molested by the pimps that ran the Franklin scale. Not a single child. And then when you get into the snow killings, it gets kind of mind boggling because there's a number of people. There were pedophiles that were arrested and polygraphed about the snow killings, and a bunch of them came back negative, or a bunch of them came back that they were lying about that. And then there was mitochondrial DNA found in someone's car of one of the kids. But after Christopher Bush ostensibly committed suicide, that was it. That was the end of the investigation. A task force was formed, and they didn't make one arrest.
- [63:49]
A
Man.
- [63:51]
B
So this is something that we have to take care of. Last time I talked about last time I was here. The CDC, Centers for Disease Control says that 25% of underage girls have been molested and 5% of underage boys. Now, most people believe that underage boys is way underestimated. But right there, there's 50 million Americans. If you're talking 25% of women and 5% of men, that's 50 million Americans that have been molested as underage boys or girls. So this is a huge problem that we have to deal with. And it's difficult to know how many kids are trafficked, but I've seen some numbers that look relatively strong that indicate like 300,000 kids are trafficked in the United States. And where there's a misnomer with people is that they think that, like their Mexican kids or Eastern European kids, that's not the case. 85% of children that are trafficked in America are American children.
- [65:07]
A
Man, that is very painful to hear. But, Nick, let's. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, we'll. We'll dive into P. Diddy and the connection between him and Epstein.
- [65:23]
B
Okay.
- [65:26]
A
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- [69:35]
B
So P. Diddy, he's an interesting story. His dad was a drug dealer who got shot. I've been told the contract was sanctioned by Frank Lucas, but I'm not sure. And then he and his mom moved north of New York City, and I believe he went to Howard for a couple of years and he dropped out. And then he did various things for various record companies. And then in 1993, he and Clive Davis founded Bad Boy Records. Clive Davis. How do you describe Clive Davis? There's an infomercial about him now, which is a document. It's being called a documentary, and it makes him look like this benign octogenarian that's helped all these rock stars with their careers. But people in the music industry really don't like Clive Davis, most of them. And his criminality is kind of amazing. He got busted for filing false tax returns three times and then defrauding the IRS three times. He was involved in the biggest payola scandal. That's when record companies give money to radio stations to play their songs. He was part of the biggest payola scandal of all time as president of ABC Records. And then there was a Genovese crime guy named Pasquale Falcon. And he got busted smuggling 22 pounds of heroin into the United States. And they just swear and started digging into him. And they came across all these shell companies that he headed. And Clive Davis was funneling money from ABC Records to these shell companies. I've just told you about two decades worth of criminality by Clive Davis, and that guy has not spent one night in jail. That's what's amazing about him. In 1993, I think he takes P. Diddy by the hand. They get on the yellow brick road. And P. Diddy has been engaged in all kind of criminal behavior, but nothing has come out. And I believe for Clive Davis, this is just my surmise. For a guy to do commit as many felonies as he's committed and not spend a day in jail. I believe he's working for the government on some level as an informant. I mean, who knows? But so he.
- [72:30]
A
An informant for what? What makes you think he's working for the.
- [72:33]
B
I would say like an informant for the FBI or for what.
- [72:37]
A
What would they be collecting?
- [72:40]
B
I mean, a guy in that Position, I'm sure, has quite a panoramic view of certain types of corruption and criminality. Where, in what realm, in the music.
- [72:51]
A
Realm do you think the FBI is actually interested in? The music realm?
- [72:57]
B
Yeah, I mean there's all kinds of laws on the books about what people like the payola scandal. It's against the law for people to give money for record companies to give money to radio stations. And who knows, I mean, I've heard that that's still going on. But the FBI might want. It's difficult to know. I mean the FBI might want to enforce that law.
- [73:21]
A
I mean the Epstein stuff totally makes sense to me. It totally makes sense how that guy would be in intelligence, in holding all as many US politicians and elites as they possibly can with blackmail. That makes perfect sense to me. I'm not familiar with this man.
- [73:42]
B
Uh huh.
- [73:42]
A
I don't, I don't think that that would be on the same level, you know, and I'm not, I have no idea. This is the first I'm hearing about this, so just take whatever I'm saying with a grain of salt. But it does, it seems very low level compared to the Epstein stuff.
- [73:58]
B
Well, the thing about Clive Davis and why I'm suspicious of Clive Davis is how do you commit that many felonies and not spend a day in jail? Yeah, I mean that doesn't make any sense to me.
- [74:11]
A
Yeah.
- [74:11]
B
And then he gets busted committing felonies and then he gets like the next great record executive job and then he gets busted doing something else and then he gets the next great record executive job. So I think that the only way that you can commit those kind of felonies and not spend a night in jail as if you've got something worked out.
- [74:37]
A
Do you think they're holding him? Do you think he may be some type of an informant to black male artists into messaging whatever narrative they want in the public eye through musicians?
- [74:56]
B
It's difficult to know, but people think of the power that musicians, rock stars have.
- [75:02]
A
That's kind of what I'm getting at. I mean, I can't remember the numbers, but they say Taylor Swift could influence an enormous percentage of the US population in an election. And so that's why I'm asking. I'm not 100%, actually, I have no idea who Davis is affiliated with, what kind of musicians he's affiliated with, the biggest names. As in who?
- [75:30]
B
Bruce Springsteen, people like that. He's launched a lot of.
- [75:37]
A
He could be blackmailing elite musicians to message particular narratives for FBI, CIA.
- [75:46]
B
That's the thing I just don't know. I mean, but how does a guy commit that many felonies and not spend a day in jail? That is what I. With Clive Davis. That's what I've been trying to get my mind around. And the only thing I can think of is he's an informant of some kind. I mean, if you or I got busted defrauding the IRS just once, we'd probably have to spend some time in jail.
- [76:20]
A
Oh, yeah. I mean, they put Bernie Kerik in prison for. Was it tax evasion? For paying. Yeah, for paying his nanny cash. That's tax evasion.
- [76:32]
B
So how does this guy.
- [76:33]
A
I mean, how does everybody pay? I mean, you know, everybody who has long care service. Are those. Is that on the books? You know what I mean? Give me a break.
- [76:42]
B
So how does a guy get. I mean, he's defrauded. He's been busted defrauding the IRS three times. I mean, and filing false tax returns three times. So how does it. And then that's not even getting into the payola and the shell companies that he's hooking up with the Genovese guy. I just don't understand how that guy doesn't spend a day in jail. And I don't understand how there's a documentary about him. Well, I kind of understand that that makes him not to be this benign octogenarian.
- [77:15]
A
The only reason I'm asking is I'm just curious what you think that intelligence agencies would get out of having him on the books. Other than. The only thing that can come to mind my mind is messaging.
- [77:28]
B
Messaging, like rock stars have a tremendous amount of power. And, I mean, who knows with Clive Davis. I live in New York City and I know some people in the music industry, and they look at him as like the Antichrist.
- [77:51]
A
I mean, really.
- [77:52]
B
Yeah, there's this infomercial, AKA documentary about him that, as I said, makes him look as a kindly octogenarian. But the people that I know in the music industry do not hold Clive Davis in very high regard. And in 1993, he hooks up with P. Diddy and they launch Bad Boy Records, which becomes this unbelievable success. Now, P. Diddy has been getting away with all kinds of stuff. There was that shooting that he walked from. Shine took the fall for it. And we've seen some clips of him beating on women. I mean, that's pretty standard operating procedure for him. But now there's eight lawsuits that have been filed against him for sexual assault.
- [78:46]
A
Didn't he skip the country immediately after his place was busted?
- [78:50]
B
Well, he was going to skip the country.
- [78:53]
A
He didn't.
- [78:53]
B
But I think he stayed in Florida. And I could be wrong there, but he's got these eight lawsuits. Two of them are minors. Two of the women that are suing him were minors when he molested them. And he molested them in a very brutal manner.
- [79:12]
A
How so?
- [79:14]
B
Well, they were minors and he was very forceful. And then the fifth lawsuit has been filed by Little Rod, who also claims that he was sexually assaulted. But he said, and this is where a lot of the traction is coming from in the media. He was talking about, like Cuba Gooding Jr. And other people being in on P. Diddy's sexual sex epades or sex escapades. And. But Little Rod said that P. Diddy was trafficking minors too. So we've got three accounts of P. Diddy trafficking minors and his houses in LA were searched and. And Miami, and there was hidden cameras. And Homeland Security. It's kind of strange. Homeland Security were the people that, like, spearheaded the investigation. It's usually the FBI that does that. Homeland Security does have a human trafficking division. So it's entirely possible that it's on the up and up, but I'm not quite sure because that those search warrants emanated from the Southern District of New York. And why would the Southern District of New York execute search warrants in LA and also Miami? Why wouldn't they just have the US Attorney for Los Angeles or Miami execute those search warrants? And the fact that they emanated from the Southern District, the U.S. attorney there is Damian Williams. And Damian Williams, because it's Damian Williams, we know the fix is in. And this is the nexus between Epstein. Damian Williams is the nexus between Epstein and P. Diddy.
- [81:19]
A
Interesting.
- [81:21]
B
Williams was the one, okay, that the trial of Maxwell, there were four Epstein victims that were called to testify. Now, those victims had only been molested by Epstein and Maxwell. They had not been molested by any of the power brokers. That was a very carefully choreographed trial. And I know a woman who covered that trial for a media outlet, and she agreed with me that it was very carefully choreographed. And Damian Williams oversaw that. He was a US Attorney that oversaw that trial and he made sure that no one could be indicted other than Maxwell. And so now he's in charge of the PDD investigation.
- [82:12]
A
Interesting.
- [82:13]
B
And he's ostensibly. Well, there's a grand jury now that's been impaneled to look into the PDD investigation. So with grand juries, a special prosecutor is chosen for a grand jury and grand jurors are just people that have shown up for jury duty and have been called to a grand jury. So special prosecutors can really twist the opinions and minds of grand jurors, because only the evidence that the special prosecutor wants shown and only the witnesses that the special prosecutor calls, that's the information that the grand jurors get. Like the Epstein grand jury in Florida, which the documents, the testimony was released about three weeks ago, and it really showed how corrupt it is. That special prosecutor, the assistant to the special prosecutor, she's calling this girl who was molested by Epstein when she was 14, who was testifying when she was 16, like a prostitute. I mean. And that grand jury did not indict Epstein on a single count of child abuse. So now we have Damian Williams, the U.S. attorney for the Southern District and who is considered to be the most powerful federal law enforcement officer in New York. The Southern District is. That's kind of like a special position for people. And we know that Damian Williams is overseeing this P. Diddy grand jury. And whatever's gonna come out of it, I believe the fix is in. I think P. Diddy might get indicted. That grand jury has been impounded, I think, for about a month. I think P. Diddy might get indicted. I think some people, maybe one of his kids, might get indicted. But P. Diddy had what he called freak off parties.
- [84:04]
A
What was that?
- [84:05]
B
P. Diddy had what he called freak off parties.
- [84:08]
A
Freak off parties.
- [84:10]
B
Freak off parties, yeah. Where there would just be like a bacchanalian orgy, essentially. And politicians went to those parties, celebrities went to those parties, sports stars went to those parties. And he had that hidden audio visual blackmail thing going on, like Epstein, like Craig Spence. And I just wonder, getting back to Clive Davis, did he get into that via Clive Davis, or did he just come into it by himself? But again, is P. Diddy going to be blackmailing? Because P. Diddy dealt with some unbelievably powerful people. Can P. Diddy blackmail those people by themselves, or is he blackmailing for some kind of COVID entity?
- [85:04]
A
Interesting.
- [85:05]
B
That's the question. But the fact that we got Damian Williams overseeing his investigation, it reached a point with P. Diddy where there were so many sexual assault lawsuits getting filed against him that something had to be done. And all this was coming out about his beating up women. And there was a president of bad boy records that he took a baseball bat to. I mean, he's just a nasty piece of work. And I think it reached a critical mass where something had to be done. So call in Damian Williams. He's covered up Epstein. Now he's going to be covering up P. Diddy.
- [85:49]
A
Yeah, that is a interesting commonality between the two for sure.
- [85:58]
B
And here's another nexus. Damian Williams, his parents were Jamaican and he got a grant from the Daisy and from the Paul and Daisy Soros foundation to go to. I think it was Yale Law School. I think he got like $90,000 from him. And that's. Paul Soros is the brother of Peter Soros. And what I find now this could be something really ominous or it could just be a very strange coincidence. On the board of the Paul and Daisy Soros foundation is Peter Soros, Paul Soros son and Peter Soros nephew. And he is circled twice in Epstein's black book. Not just once, but twice. So is there something really ominous that's going on there or is that just a coincidence that Damian Williams gets this huge grant from the Paul and Daisy Soros foundation and Peter Soros is on the board and Damian Williams just goes on to cover up Epstein. These are one of those things that you never know. But it's certainly quite a coincidence that. So there's a couple of nexuses there between Epstein and P. Diddy, although Damian Williams is certainly the common denominator.
- [87:38]
A
Do you know what politicians want to the parties. Is there any documentation of that?
- [87:45]
B
There is.
- [87:46]
A
I mean, where would people find that documentation?
- [87:50]
B
It's. It's coming out on the Internet and various news organizations.
- [87:57]
A
Is it real?
- [87:59]
B
I think so. I mean, I'm sure that some of it's just salacious bullshit, but I'm. I mean, there were a lot of people that P. Diddy sucked into his orbit and it's entirely possible that they were blackmailed.
- [88:18]
A
Yeah. Wow.
- [88:21]
B
Because he had those hidden cameras and a lot of powerful people and miners. We were talking about that before. If you're drinking and there's a minor and you think she's not a minor.
- [88:39]
A
I mean, you're just right there, you know? I mean, now. I don't know. I don't. Man. It's just so. It's tricky. It's tricky. Well, I mean, it's tricky. It is. You go to a party, maybe you don't know what's going on. You see what you think is a woman with a drink that automatically would make you assume that she's 21 years old. Oh, surprise, she's not. And we got you on camera.
- [89:17]
B
And that's the thing with P. Diddy, because Damian Williams is overseeing this, we're not going to really know. I mean, eventually stuff will come out about PDD like it has. But I don't think that there's going to be a tremendous amount of justice.
- [89:37]
A
There never seems to be when it comes to kids.
- [89:41]
B
And what I find kind of startling is I'm the only guy that's put together the Damian Williams nexus between the two. I've never heard anybody else talk about Damian Williams. I mean, people talk about like this guy or that guy and all this salacious bullshit, but I've never heard Damian Williams mentioned in any coverage that has anything to do with P. Diddy.
- [90:12]
A
I mean, there was. It also seemed like he had a. I mean, very addicted to power and control. Because there are also, and correct me if I'm wrong, these may be rumors, but I think it has come out. I mean, wasn't he having junior artists sodomize him on camera and such?
- [90:42]
B
Yes. And then he was also Bill Cosbying women too, giving them roofies.
- [90:54]
A
What was so that. But that was. That was all power and control. You'll never leave this record label. I own your ass. Yeah, you're gonna sodomize me right here on camera or this all goes away. I mean, is that how it went?
- [91:11]
B
Now, I haven't really found the particulars of it yet like that, but it wouldn't surprise me. I mean, when we're talking about P. Diddy, we're talking about a thoroughly reprehensible individual. And Little Rod in his lawsuit says that one of the rappers had a fight with P. Diddy and his son and they went into the bathroom and shots rang out and the rapper was shot. And P. Diddy told Little Rod and some other people to move him outside of the studio and say that he'd been hit by gunfire from a drive by shooting. And actually it was reported in LA that he was hit by gunfire from a drive by shooting. And here's the thing with that. How are cops gonna not be able to differentiate someone shot at point blank and then shot by a drive by shooting? I mean, that would be pretty easy to show the difference. But that's how it's down. It's down. And according to the mainstream media, it's down as a drive by shooting and nothing happened. And what's really, I find troubling, shocking. His head of security, Free Mohammed, was the head of security for Michael Jackson. So there's a guy, Free Mohammed, there's a guy that knows how to keep secrets.
- [93:00]
A
You know, it is, it is, it is. Man. These aren't coincidences.
- [93:08]
B
I. Well, I mean, you reach so many coincidences for That, I mean, what can you extrapolate? But I would say that Muhammad is a guy, that Faroo Mohammed is a guy that knows how to keep secrets. And he's also, from my research, a great fixer. He's got really good connections in the Los Angeles Police Department and LA Sheriff, the kind of connections that would enable someone who is shot at point blank range and then it's reported that they're shot by a drive by shooting, those type of connections to be able to pull something like that off. I guess he's a consummate fixer and he's made a lot of money. He bought his son, his youngest son, like a huge tract of real estate near San Diego. And Southern California real estate is very, very expensive. So being a security supervisor for Fareem Mohammed has been a very, very good career move for him. First for Michael Jackson and now for P. Diddy.
- [94:27]
A
Wow. I mean, I'd like to, I'd like to, man. So you think it was an intelligence op again, P. Diddy?
- [94:44]
B
Yeah, I mean, the fact that Damian Williams is involved, if Damian Williams wasn't involved, I would be kind of agnostic. But the fact that Damian Williams is involved shows me that the COVID up is being orchestrated from on high. And with the Epstein case, as I said earlier, Alexander Ocasi, the U.S. attorney was told to stand down. And there's only two people that can tell a U.S. attorney to stand down, and that's the President and the Attorney General. Damian Williams is a U.S. attorney, the most powerful U.S. attorney in New York and he's already choreographed one trial. And now with this grand jury, I mean, who knows what these grand jurors are listening to. I'm sure that, I mean, if P. Diddy doesn't get indicted on anything, I'll be kind of shocked. But I don't think we're going to see many other. Maybe his kid might get indicted.
- [95:56]
A
You don't think we'll see a list?
- [95:58]
B
There's not, we're not going to see a lot of powerful people get indicted that should be indicted. With Epstein, there should have been a lot of people indicted, but with P. Diddy and there should probably be a lot of people indicted, but we're not going to see because of, we know who is in charge of the grand jury. So chances are it's going to be a very corrupt grand jury. It's going to serve us a ham sandwich, man.
- [96:24]
A
That's sad. I mean, how was he? Is there any news on how he was recruiting these women, these girls, how he was Coaxing them in.
- [96:37]
B
He was, he was getting a lot of escorts for sure. I mean he was big on escorts. And I don't. He was like the two minors that filed the lawsuits. He just was able to get them into his clutches with his fame and his power. And the girls were naive and they didn't think that they were going to see a monster. They thought they were going to see his Holiness, P. Diddy. And then they were in for quite an awakening.
- [97:19]
A
What are they saying?
- [97:22]
B
He forcefully raped them. And one of them pretty. It was pretty ugly for sure. And Little Rod says multiple minors. So we've got the lawsuit. Two lawsuits launched by minors. But then Little Rod said there were multiple miners. And that made him very uncomfortable when he voiced his reluctance to P. Diddy to be part of these minors. And P. Diddy just kind of said shut up and go with it. And those are the kind of people that we have atop the music business. I'm sure that there's got to be some good people, but I think that there's a lot of Clive Davises and P. Diddys that are in our entertainment.
- [98:18]
A
Yeah.
- [98:19]
B
That are involved in our entertainment.
- [98:20]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hollywood doesn't. Hollywood seems to be worse.
- [98:29]
B
You know, Hollywood Babylon. I know that I haven't been able to sell a Franklin scandal documentary in Hollywood. I mean I've tried like 40 times and I mean I've met with. I've met with so many different guys.
- [98:49]
A
Hey, would you guys mind just exposing yourself? Let's make a movie about it.
- [98:54]
B
But what's really interesting is a number of times I've gone as like a vice president has really been into it and then they go to the president, whether it be a network or a platform and then he or she vetoes it. So there are people in LA that would. Or showbiz that would like to see a Franklin scandal docu series, but we just haven't been able to. And it was optioned by Magnolia Pictures for three years and we had some really high powered people pitching it and we still couldn't get people to bite, man. So that's been kind of tough trying to sell a docuseries on my book.
- [99:46]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's get in. Is there anything else we need to cover with P. Diddy?
- [99:52]
B
No. I'd like to talk a little bit about Epstein justice though.
- [99:55]
A
Let's do it.
- [99:56]
B
Last time I was here I was talking about Epstein justice and we hadn't been granted 501 status but now we have and Epstein justices, we're really Gaining a lot of momentum. We've got a very good advisory board of some of the. Some very eminent people in the non trafficking world are part of our advisory board. We've got a really good staff. And on August 17th, we're having our first forum. We're calling them forums and it's going to be in Dunlap, Iowa. And what we're doing is we were initially we wanted to get a lot of people to show up in Washington D.C. but we're building an infrastructure. And after Dunlap, Ohio, it's going to be Houston. And we're going to start having these forums where we can bring people together and what we want. And we've got a newsletter now too. And what we want is people to take the initiative of wanting to put on these forums themselves and then we will help them with that. Because we have to make a stand with Epstein. We cannot let the government cover up child trafficking. We just have to make that stand. And a lot of people are aware of Epstein. When you've got a disease, there's three facets. There's awareness, there's acceptance, there's action. A lot of people are aware of Epstein. But the acceptance part that the government covered up, now that is something that I talk to people and they're not even aware of that. So I think that when we reach a critical mass of acceptance, we'll be able to have action at that point. And I realize we're going against the grain, but I think that the government covering up child trafficking, I really believe it is the only issue that can unite the right and left at this point. The right and the left are so polarized about everything.
- [102:26]
A
Yeah.
- [102:27]
B
Except children being molested with impunity.
- [102:30]
A
I don't know if that's necessarily true, Nick. I don't know if that's true.
- [102:35]
B
What are your thoughts?
- [102:37]
A
Well, I mean, you see the. You see the left and what are they doing? They're. They are making pedophilia normal again, not normal again. They're making it normal. They don't want to. We're not. And they don't want you to call them pedophiles anymore. They want you to call them maps. Minor attracted persons. This is a real thing.
- [102:58]
B
No, no, I know. I follow this stuff, but that's like a very small part of the left.
- [103:05]
A
Is it though?
- [103:06]
B
Yes, it is.
- [103:06]
A
Is it? Because I don't see anybody on the left calling this shit out. I haven't seen one person on the left say this is up. No, you know what I see? I See a bunch of complicit people. Maybe they're complicit because they want that to happen. I mean, you see all the politics we're just talking about, all the politicians that have blackmail over them that you haven't even named. And I'm not trying to polarize anything here. I'm just calling out what I see. And what I see is the left not doing anything to protect kids. We are doing sex changes to 8 year olds. We are calling pedophiles minor attracted persons. And I don't see anybody and not one person on that side of the aisle doing a damn thing about it. Correct me if I'm wrong, I think.
- [104:05]
B
Okay, on my advisory board or the Epstein justice advisory board, we have people that are progressives, we have people that are conservatives. I wanted a mix of everybody.
- [104:16]
A
I think that's smart.
- [104:17]
B
And the people that are on our advisory board and other people I know in the anti trafficking community and I know a lot of people in the anti trafficking community, they all think that's crazy what you're talking about. They think it's completely insane. I don't doubt that there's a segment on the left, it's kind of like with.
- [104:40]
A
I mean, I'm open. You can name somebody that is actually standing out against this on the left because I haven't seen it.
- [104:51]
B
Like QAnon.
- [104:52]
A
I mean, you know, I'm Washington now. Are you aware of this? In Washington state, they can. Now the state can take your kid if you don't. If you do not want them to get, what do they call it, gender affirming care or something, the state will take your kid.
- [105:11]
B
Well, that wokeness, okay, now that's an.
- [105:14]
A
Entire state that got voted in the wokeness.
- [105:19]
B
I agree with you. It's gotten insane completely. But there's a lot of people on the left that think it's insane. It's like qanon on the right where the Clintons are satanists and they're trafficking their children and they're gonna eat them. I mean, qanon was pretty far out there. And that is the problem is that people on the left think everybody's qanon and people on the right think everybody on the left is about woke. And most people that I live in New York City, which is kind of the epicenter of liberalism, and most people that I know that are on the left think it's completely insane.
- [106:03]
A
Then how does this stuff keep passing?
- [106:06]
B
I mean, how did qanon. I mean, when you get zealous people.
- [106:10]
A
QAnon isn't turning into law. This shit is turning into law.
- [106:16]
B
I agree with that. And I think. Because I know some pretty big liberal pundits and they're kind of afraid to touch this. But it is getting rolled back. Men. It's getting to the point where men could identify as women and be thrown in women's prisons or jails, and that's being outlawed. And men participating in women's sports. I mean. I mean, it went that far. It got that crazy. But now it's. It's. The pendulum is coming back. And I think that, that, that will eventually reach some kind of equilibrium. I do believe that. But I think it's a misnomer to think that everybody on the left is behind that. Is cool with.
- [107:18]
A
I don't believe everybody on the left is behind that. All I'm asking is why is nobody on the left standing up for these kids? But they are standing up for pedophiles. They are standing up for pedophiles. Silence is. I mean, they're not saying anything. They're not standing up for the kids. They're kids. They're kids.
- [107:47]
B
You know, there are people.
- [107:50]
A
This is some shit we could actually do something about right now. Right now, all they have to do is vocalize that they are not for this and don't vote for this shit. But they continue to vote for it. And yeah, I'm sure that there are people out there on the left that. I mean, I hate that we even have to have this discussion. I'm sure there are people that vote left that are against this, but they sure as hell aren't saying anything about it.
- [108:26]
B
I know feminists that are completely appalled by it. Far left feminists that are completely appalled by it, especially if they think that it's like a men's right movement because of men being. Identifying as women and being allowed to. I mean, that has not happened a lot where men have identified as women and ended up in jails and raped women. I mean, it's happened, but it hasn't happened a lot. And then you had Riley Gaines, the swimmer, coming out and saying, this is insane, that men are competing as women and that she's been listened to. I mean, that's changing. So I think the pendulum swung pretty far to the left, but I think it's coming back. As we look at and throughout history, we see pendulums swing to the left and then ultimately swing back. And I think that that's kind of what's going to happen here.
- [109:43]
A
Yeah, well, I hope you're right. I do too, you know, because I mean, I have, I mean I have some left leaning views. I do, but I just, I can when I see headline after headline. It just came out again. Yes. A couple days ago in California. Did you see that?
- [110:10]
B
No.
- [110:13]
A
Man. What was the headline? I got a. We might have to pause it and look it up, but it was, it was. Oh, it was teachers. And this is, this is teachers. What was it? Now, teachers basically don't have to inform the parents if the kid is. If a child is wanting to change sex basically is what the bill has to do with. But I mean, it's just. The point I'm making is. Yeah. I mean there is crazy shit on the right too that annoys me, but it's not, it is not. It's conspiracy shit like you were just talking about. It's not law, it's not harming children, it's not standing up for pedophilia and trying to normalize it in society. And I mean, I have kids and that really bothers me. Really bothers me. To me, there is nothing more evil in this world than to sexually assault little kids.
- [111:30]
B
Yeah, I mean that's, I think, I.
- [111:32]
A
Don'T know how anybody can be behind that, but they are.
- [111:36]
B
But I mean it's like nambla. It's a very small percentage of people on the left. They are not going to. Pedophilia is not going to be legalized.
- [111:48]
A
Well, they're making a hell of a lot of ground.
- [111:50]
B
There are people that are trying, but that's come up occasionally over the years and it's not going to be able. That will not happen. I was hanging out with. I'm in Tennessee, I'm visiting a couple old friends of mine and they've got three kids and the husband is fairly conservative, the wife is fairly liberal. The kids are pretty liberal. And we were just talking about this last night at the dinner table and I said to them, what do you guys think about. And these are, They're.
- [112:26]
A
What do you think about what? Which one are we talking about?
- [112:29]
B
I'm talking about kids getting sex changes and they're pretty liberal. I mean they all go to very good schools, but they're liberal kids. And I said, I kind of started out the conversation. I said, I don't see how people. It's so.
- [112:46]
A
Hell of a dinner conversation, Nick.
- [112:49]
B
Well, we were drifting in that area and then I figured my. It was before dessert.
- [112:54]
A
Hey, by the way, what do you guys.
- [112:56]
B
So I said to them, when I was 12 or 13 years old, I had no idea of who I was. So how could I even begin to try to find my. I mean, even think about something like that? And those three kids agreed with me that these are issues that shouldn't be involved, that kids shouldn't be involved in. They've gotta be 18 at least 18. And I think that there's a lot of people that don't even know who they are when they're 18. I mean, there's a lot of people who don't know who they are when they're 40. But definitely when I see people under 18 given hormone blockers, I find it truly repulsive. But again, I think that most of the people on the left find that repulsive too. I really do.
- [113:59]
A
Why do you think they don't vocalize them?
- [114:02]
B
I know that there's some left wing pundits that I know that are concerned about various issues and they don't want to be to deal with that type of an issue. They're concerned about the Ukraine war, the war in Gaza and they don't want to be bogged down by that particular issue.
- [114:29]
A
Yeah, they're more concerned about foreign wars that we probably should not even be involved with rather than our own kids here in this country. I'd love to interview one of those pundits. I will have that conversation.
- [114:44]
B
I will actually see if I can get one to talk to you.
- [114:47]
A
Good.
- [114:49]
B
Because with the anti trafficking movement, it's pretty interesting. It's people that are religious and people that are very far left feminist. Those are the two groups that are most prominent in the anti trafficking movement, anti child trafficking movement. And I see them coming together for this issue and I think that they can come together for this issue around Epstein. I mean, once people understand Epstein and Franklin and the Snow murders and P. Diddy, I mean, it just keeps coming. I mean the Catholic Church, the Boy Scouts, they can. That type of issue, I believe. I mean, I see it now unites the right and left in the anti trafficking moment, anti human trafficking moment. So I believe that it can happen on a much bigger scale.
- [115:58]
A
I hope you're right, Nick.
- [115:59]
B
I do too.
- [116:00]
A
I would love to see some people on the left start taking a stand on this stuff. Even when the Sound of Freedom came out. Remember all those headlines, it's all conspiracy. It's all this, it's all that. That was all left wing media putting that shit out and hold on. And the point of it is, it's hey, whether this is like conspiracy or not, this shit is happening. It is happening right now in that movie. Whether it Was true or not some type of fiction based off whatever it was that was educating parents and kids on how this happens and how prominent it actually is in our society? And they fucking blew it off. They made it out to be, you know, some bullshit that people shouldn't be watching. They tried as hard as they could to squash that so that it didn't. So that it didn't gain any traction. Sorry. But the only thing that movie did was educate and bring awareness to what the fuck is actually going on. And they tried to squash it. Now why do you think they tried to squash it? Because they didn't want the inner awareness.
- [117:21]
B
But we are talking about the mainstream media that tried to squash it. The mainstream media has tried to squash me. Is that a right or a left thing? I don't know. I think that the left might buy into it, the sound of freedom. But I know lots of people on the left that went to the sound of freedom. I do know some people on the left that thought it was going to be right wing propaganda. I mean, Tim Ballard, given his behavior, I mean, he didn't really help that issue too much. But the media, because for me, I've been ostracized by the right and the left media. I mean, there was.
- [118:12]
A
We could go. I don't want it to sound like I'm just leaning one night.
- [118:15]
B
No, no, I do.
- [118:16]
A
Because we could go off on the right right now, but it's not relevant to this discussion.
- [118:22]
B
I was going to be okay. I told you about the CNN where they said we're gonna go a different direction. When Sandusky was breaking, there was a younger producer at Fox that had read the Franklin Scale. And she called my publisher and said that she'd like to talk to me. And then. So we talked and I told her what I thought about Sandusky and I said, what you have here is an institution that just wants to perpetuate its money, power and its prestige and it's not going to care. Children aren't going to be put in second place to that. And then I talked to the senior producer for about three minutes and she told my publisher that I sounded incoherent and that's the reason why she wasn't going to. And this is Fox now. So I've been ostracized by both the right and the left. But here's the thing. I believe, as crazy as things are right now, I believe in the fundamental decency of Americans to do the right thing. I do believe in that, that Americans will do the right thing. And I think that there might be some small segment of people on the left that want to legalize pedophilia. I don't see pedophilia ever legalized. I mean, I just don't see it. There'd be too much blowback, because I think that Americans are fundamentally decent people. I believe that the media. And we were just talking about this. I believe that the media can affect them and negatively. And what's really interesting that I find is that 66. I think it's 66% of Americans don't trust the mainstream media, but yet they listen to it. But there's blogs and there's podcasts. I mean, for me, when I was shut up in 2002, 2003, 2004, all those years I was shut up by the mainstream media, and I didn't have really an opportunity to get my message out there about the Franklin scandal and then about Epstein. But now I do. I mean, there's a lot of outlets like your show. I can get my message out. I don't need the mainstream media. I think the mainstream media is very corrupt, regardless if it's right or it's left. Six corporations churn out 90% of the media that's imbibed by Americans. You've got these six titanic corporations, and they could easily be broken up with the Sherman Antitrust Act. This is my feeling about it. I think that there's a detente between these titanic media conglomerates and the government, because the government could step in and break them up at any time. So I think they appease each other. And whether it be right or left, like Nick Bryant has been ostracized from both sides. I mean, I've been getting interviewed by Newsmax lately, but I've been banished by both the right and left.
- [122:08]
A
Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, Nick, I'm not. I'm not saying the right's any better. I'm saying I'm talking about this one particular issue.
- [122:21]
B
And I think that that issue is crazy. And I think most Americans know it's crazy. And I think that the political correctness that was kind of incubating in the 90s has ultimately led to this. And that political correctness has. It's a force in academia, unfortunately. And I think that what we're dealing with now is an outgrowth of that. But I also think that the vast majority of Americans are against it, and I don't see it.
- [123:11]
A
Yeah. All I know is it's not getting smaller, it's getting bigger. More and more states are passing this shit, it's coming in headlines more and more and more. I mean, I remember, I remember a year ago we were interviewing this guy, Ryan Montgomery, who I think you know who Ryan is.
- [123:37]
B
Yeah, I talked to him.
- [123:38]
A
Yeah. Interviewed this guy, Ryan Montgomery, rebrought up the maps. Oh, guess what? I got labeled a conspiracy theorist again. And then bam, here's this article. Bam, here's that article. This state, that state, Bam, bam, bam. It's everywhere. It just came out again, you know, a couple days ago, like I just said, this new thing in California with the kids. It's, you know, it's so, I mean, I want to believe you, I do, that the majority of Americans don't want this. But it's. But the problem is it's a growing problem, not a shrinking problem.
- [124:15]
B
And do you think that it's an outgrowth of we've got a government that's letting children get molested with impunity. Do you think that there's any kind of correlation between that and what we have here?
- [124:29]
A
Possibly.
- [124:33]
B
Because I've been writing about children's issues since 1990, I've written a book about lower socioeconomic children. And what I see is it's pretty egregious what's happening to American children. Families with children are the fast growing segment of the homeless population. Although it's gotten better. When I wrote that book, there were 10 million American children that were uninsured. Now there's, I think, far less. But 22.5% or 22% of American children are growing up below the poverty threshold. But when you juxtapose. There was a study done by Greg Duncan, he was a University of Michigan researcher, and he found that if a child is born at a low birth weight, which is generally because the mother doesn't receive proper prenatal care, and they're subjected to continuous poverty for five years, if they're white, their IQ is going to be 90. If they're black, their IQ is going to be 85. And millions of American children experience hunger every month. So where is. I mean, this is where our government needs to step in and start helping children. And I think that a lot of Americans aren't really aware of the state of American children. With what I see with like children being the fast growing segment of the homeless population, children being without healthcare insurance, I think it's kind of a wholesale destruction of our children. And with Epstein and Franklin and these other issues we've been talking about, I think that's kind of a retail destruction of our children. Where There's a wholesale destruction, there's a retail destruction. So I think Americans are fundamentally decent, but they really need edification about the state of their children.
- [126:48]
A
Yeah.
- [126:52]
B
So, I mean, that's a tough question. I mean, I ask that to myself all the time.
- [126:57]
A
Yeah. Well, let's move into the Truth About Watergate. Thank you for listening to the Shawn Ryan Show. If you haven't already, please take a minute, head over to itunes, and leave the Sean Ryan Show a review. We read every review that comes through and we really appreciate the support. Thank you. Let's get back to the show. All right, Nick, we're back from the break. Let's talk about your new book, the.
- [127:32]
B
Truth About Watergate, A tale of extraordinary lies and liars. There's been some great books written about Watergate. I mean, really good books, but they're tomes and they're complex and they have to be studied. The best books about Watergate, like Secret Agenda and Silent Coup, great books, the scholarship is amazing, but you just can't pick up one of those books and read it and fully understand what's going on. And I started looking into Watergate when. When I was researching Franklin in D.C. i heard a bunch of stuff about Bob Woodward, the famed journalist. Him and Carl Bernstein broke Watergate, stuff that was very unsavory about Bob Woodward. And over the years, I've just kind of collected books on Watergate and I've read them and I concluded that Bob Woodrow is lying. And we'll get into it later about Deep Throat. I mean, it just doesn't make. It just doesn't align. I mean, the physics of it. But the more and more I read it about Watergate, the more I wanted to write a book, but I wanted to write a simple book. I wanted to make Watergate as simple as possible so it could be Watergate for dummies. But it's still very complex. Watergate is a conspiracy within a conspiracy, and I'll kind of explain that later. But Watergate is so complex. There's so much misdirection going on. And the media. The media's portrayal of Watergate is, and Magnanimit's, an enormous lie. And with Watergate, okay, so Nixon got elected in 68, and he'd been a hawk. He'd been really an anti communist hawk. He was in the house on UN American activities, going after people. And he ran for president in 60 and he got beat by JFK. And then he ran for a California governor in 62 and he got beat. And then he moved to New York and thought he was done with politics. And he was pretty acerbic when he got beat for governor. He said some pretty nasty things about the media. But then in 19, in, like, 66, 67, he saw America becoming unglued by the Vietnam War and all the protests. And that was, like, horrifying to most Americans. But to Nixon, it was a siren song. It summoned him back to politics. And, well, he had spent eight years in the wilderness. He had concluded that containment with the Soviet Union and the Communists wasn't working. And he wanted to actually become a peacemaker. And when he was campaigning in 68, and I'm not a Nixon apologist, he did some good things, he did some bad things. But when he was campaigning in 67, he was talking about, I'm going to be the peacemaker. And everybody thought this is just an Exon line and it's just a cynical campaign ploy. But when he did get elected, he started reaching out to the Communist Chinese and he started reaching out to the Russians. He wanted to do strategic arm limitations with the Soviet Union, and he wanted to open up China for diplomatic relations. Because once China had become Communist, once Mao had defeated Chiang Kai Shek, we just completely ostracized China. And Nixon knew that he was going to have to go up against the hawks to do this. And he knew how much power the hawks had. And on his. I think it's the second day, he came out with National Security Memorandum Decision 2, which sounds kind of like an innocuous bureaucratic directive, but basically what he said is that the CIA, the Department of Defense, and the State Department will have no bearing on any of my geopolitical moves. So basically, he was telling the hawks to go to hell. And then he took the National Security Council, which had been kind of like a think tank, and he made that. He turned that into something that would have bearing on his geopolitical moves. And Richard Helms, who was the head of the CIA, he would allow Helms to brief the National Security Council, but as soon as he was done briefing, he would have to leave his Persona non grata. And Nixon really disliked Helms, really disliked him. And actually he thought that the CIA had burned him in the 1960 political campaign against JFK because JFK was attacking him and the Eisenhower administration for being soft on Communism, even though the Eisenhower administration was gearing up for what would be the Bay of Pigs. And Nixon thought that the CIA had told that to Kennedy and undermined his. His run for the presidency at that point. So Nixon didn't like the CIA. And he wanted to become a peacemaker. So he started making overtures to the Communists, the Chinese, and then the Russians. He really wanted to de escalate the arms race. And he was doing all this clandestinely through the Navy, had this top secret communication system called SR1. He was doing it all clandestinely through SR1. And the Hawks were alarmed. And the Joint Chiefs of Staff actually initiated an espionage ring against the Nixon administration. There was Thomas Moore. He was the head of the Joint Chiefs. He was an admiral. And it's called the Moore Radford Affair because Radford was this lowly yeoman who was the liaison between the Joint Chiefs of the National Security Council. And Haig was the inside man for them at the National Security Council. And Haig was enabling Radford to get all these top secret documents like we were going to. We were allies with India, but Pakistan had a dictator that was friendly to China. So the Nixon administration, although we and Pakistan and India were engaged at a war, the Nixon administration tacitly approved what Pakistan was doing. And then probably Admiral Moore leaked it out to the press. And there was this huge blowback because the Pakistani dictator was kind of a bloodthirsty type, but Nixon wanted so badly to open up communications with the Chinese that he was willing to do these things. And so the national. The Joint Chiefs has this espionage ring where they're collecting all this information on what Nixon's doing. But the Nixon administration ultimately outs them. And at that point, the CIA starts infiltrating. And the guys that. I mean, it's amazing how many CI people, intelligence people, infiltrate the next administration. The big thing with Watergate is there were two conspiracies going on. But the first conspiracy was the CIA trying to bring down the next administration. There were a number of leaks going on, like the. The Pakistan leak and the Pentagon Papers and these various leaks. And they were driving Nixon crazy. And Ehrlichman put together a crew called the Plumbers. And the raison d'etre for the Plumbers was to plug leaks. And that's where these CI guys ended up is E. Howard Hunt, who was a scurrilous guy, and James McChord, who was. It's kind of difficult to describe James McCord, but they penetrated the Plumbers and Jigordon. Liddy was supposedly the head of the plumbers, but McCord and Hunt, these guys were like super spooks. And they just ran circles around Liddy. Liddy had no idea what these guys were up to. And then. So you've got the CIA wanting to take down Nixon and infiltrating the plumbers, but you've got something else going on. John Dean, who is one of the heroes of Watergate, who saw that, he saw the moral turpitude of the Nixon administration and came clean and helped bring Nixon down. John Dean, I mean, there's some amazing liars, extraordinary liars in Watergate, but John Dean is. John Dean is right up there with Woodward and Bernstein when it comes to lies. But John Dean's wife, Maureen Dean, knew or worked for a woman named Heidi Reichen. And Heidi Reinken ran a brothel that was a block away from the Watergate. And if you were a Democratic big shot, you go to. There's a secretary named Maxie Walz at the Democratic National Committee. You would go to her and she would provide you, like, pictures of the prostitutes, and you would choose the prostitute that you liked. And then you'd go to the Columbia was like upscale apartments. And then you would go to the Columbia and then you'd have a liaison with the prostitute that you liked. But the CIA was filming it. It was run by McCord, that particular honey trap. And so you've got these two dynamics with Watergate. You've got the CIA wanting to take the Nixon administration down, and then you've got this brothel that's connected to the dnc that's a CIA honey trap. So those are the two big variables, and they congeal and be. Be with you in one second after I take the sip of coffee. So Hunt and McCord, they initially. Well, Hunt and Liddy break in to Daniel Ellsberg, releases the Pentagon Papers, which show that what's been going on in Vietnam is a lie, that we're not making any progress in Vietnam. So Hunt gets these Cubans who were our CIA assets, and they break into Dr. Fielding's office. And then the next thing is Watergate. Now, it's kind of interesting why the Watergate was chosen and Nixon did not order a break in into the Watergate. I don't believe Ehrlichman and Halderman, they were number two. H.R. halderman was the number two guy in the next administration. John Ehrlichman was the number three guy, and John Mitchell was the Attorney General and number four guy. None of those guys ordered that break in. John Dean was counsel to the President and Jeb Magruder was the acting boss of the Committee to Reelect the President. John Mitchell, the Attorney General, was going to take over from Magruder, but, well, Mitchell served as Attorney General Magruder was the acting boss, and he and Dean were the ones that colluded together and sent those burglars into the Watergate. And the first time they broke in. So they broke. The Democratic National Committee was on the sixth floor, and the Federal Reserve was on the eighth floor. So McCord and four Cubans sign in, like, at 11:30 on a Friday night to the eighth floor to the Federal Reserve, which had been burgled and had intensified security at that point. I mean, they were trying to get busted. And the security guard had the IQ of an avocado. He couldn't put it together that these guys were about to pull off a burglary. So they went in there a second time, and they actually told. There was a D.C. cop named Carl Schauffler, and he was. He was a CIA guy, but he was also a D.C. guy, a D.C. police officer. And one of McCord's underlings called Schoffler and said, we're breaking into the Watergate tonight, so we need. And Schoffler was parked two blocks away from the Watergate. He should not have been there that night. And here's where the two conspiracies come together, because some of those Cubans, one of them, Eugenio Martinez, has the key to the desk drawer that has the pictures. And when they're busted, their photography equipment is set up on that desk. So those were the orders by Deana Magruder to go after that blackmail material. And Dean knew about that blackmail material because his wife had been associated with that. With that brothel. But the CIA guys, McCord and Hunt, they had a completely different agenda. Their agenda was to get busted. So that's what makes Watergate so complex, is you've got a conspiracy within a conspiracy.
- [143:36]
A
Wow.
- [143:38]
B
And then they got busted. And McCord and Hunt, I mean, they're very intelligent guys in super spooks. I mean, they really are. I mean, their exploits are legendary in the CIA. And they left this breadcrumb trail right to themselves. It was amazing. I mean, like, one of the burglars had a check from Howard Hunt. Just really stuff that. And people say, well, it just shows their incompetence. No, it's not their incompetence. They wanted to get busted. They wanted to taint the Nixon administration. So they get busted, and the Cubans really don't know what's going on because they thought they were going in for the pictures. Well, McCord and Hunt, their plan is to get busted. And that's when Watergate starts getting interesting, because Bob Woodward, Bob Woodward graduates from Yale. And this is actually kind of humorous. Okay, here's the COVID story on Bob Woodward. He graduates from Yale, he's accepted to Harvard Law School. But then he goes to the Washington Post and says, I would really like to be a journalist and I will work for you for two weeks. And if you don't like anything I write, you don't have to pay for those two weeks. And if you don't like anything I write, then I won't. You know, you guys, I mean, that's the COVID story of Bob Woodward. So Bob Woodward ostensibly worked at the Washington Post. Yeah, Washington Post for two weeks. And then he couldn't write. I mean, I think he still. He definitely has a lot of co authors. I still think he has problems writing. I mean, just my own personal opinion as a writer, but. So Woodward is sent to the Montgomery Sentinel, which is owned by the Washington Post. And that's kind of his triple A team to learn how to write and report. And people know at the Montgomery Sentinel that he's a spook. He drives a Carmen Guilla. Okay? He's making $110 a week. He drives a Karman Guilla. He's staying at a very nice apartment in Washington, D.C. he regularly goes to New York City. I mean, there's just no way that Woodward can live the kind of life that he's living on $110.
- [146:20]
A
Yeah.
- [146:21]
B
So he kind of learns how to write and he's brought back to the Washington Post. And then within eight months, he and Bernstein are breaking Watergate. Now Bernstein is also a pathological liar like Woodward. And Ben Bradley, the editor in chief of the Washington Post, he is also CIA. And a pathological line. There was a woman named Deborah Davis who wrote a book called Katherine the Great, about Katherine. Katharine Graham owned the Washington Post. And in the book, Deborah Davis said that Ben Bradley, the editor in chief of the Washington Post, was a CIA asset and that he'd written CIA propaganda during. After the Cold War or after the World War II. During the Cold War. And Bradley went ballistic on her. And the book was published by Harcourt Brace and Bradley threatened them and Harcourt Brace pulped the book. And there were a couple of magazines that went after her, calling her unstable. I mean, the intelligence people really tried to dismantle her because Bradley is a CIA guy and he's head of the Washington Post. And the last thing Bradley wants is his connection to the CIA to come out. But what's interesting. So the book gets pulped and in the interim, Deborah Davis files freedom of Information act stuff on Bradley. And then it comes back that Bradley is writing stuff for the CIA. So Bradley did all that to cover himself from being connected to the CIA. He also wants to take Nixon down. Woodward wants to take Nixon down. Bernstein doesn't really care. He's an ethical eunuch. He just wants money for nothing and chicks for free. I mean, he eventually blows a lot of his money on coke and hookers and he's quite the satyr. But. So you got Woodward and Bernstein with Ben Bradley and they're breaking all these stories on Nixon and they're getting information that nobody else is getting. And ultimately Ehrlichman and Halderman, the Nixon's chief of staff and then Haldeman was like domestic czar. They had to, they got tainted and they had to resign. And Alexander Haig, who had worked at the National Security Council, became Nixon's chief of staff. And Haig secretly hated Nixon for pulling out of Vietnam and for forging a relationship with both the Chinese and the Russians. He hated, he hated that. But they, but he was good. Haig was a shapeshifter and he like he was originally on the National Security Council with Henry Kissinger and he would play Kissinger and Nixon off one another. I mean sociopath, but really, really good. And he ended up when he was at the National Council, he was a four star, he was a colonel, but then Nixon ultimately made him a four star general even though Haig hated him. But he was that good at bamboozling Nixon and everybody around him. But here's the dirty little secret about Watergate and this is Woodward's big lie. He was briefing. Woodward was a Naval Intelligence officer. He was briefing Haig in 69:70. He and Haig had a relationship. And that's where the damaging information was coming from, was from Haig. But Woodward say he didn't meet haig till 73, which is all bullshit. And Woodward said Mark felt his Deep Throat, okay, Mark felt was the associate Director of the FBI, but he got fired and he got fired in May of 73. And according to Woodward and Bernstein and all the President's men, Deep Throat would drive by Woodward's apartment every day. And if Woodward moved the flower pot, that would mean that he wanted to talk to Deep Throat. And Woodward would take all these cabs and be clandestine and would meet in a underground parking lot in Alexander, Virginia. I mean, it was all bullshit anyway. And then if Deep Throat wanted to talk to Woodward, it was like page 20 of the new York Times and he'd put A little clock there. Okay, so now here's where reality kind of impinges upon the COVID story. Mark Felt was fired in May of 73. And the most damaging information from Deep Throat came in November of 73. So we're supposed to believe that Mark Felt, who had been fired from the FBI, is driving into Washington D.C. and by the way, Woodward's balcony is facing a courtyard. So he would have to go down an alley and then get out of his car and walk 50ft and look straight up to see if. Whether or not Woodward had moved his flower pot for them. So and then the page 20 of the new York Times, all the, like the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, they were all put in a pile at Woodward's apartment building. They weren't taken to as his specific room. So that all falls apart. And Woodward rolled out felt in 2005. And felt was very far gone with Alzheimer's. And I don't doubt that Felt gave Woodward some information. But the most damaging information came from Alexander Haig. And there was. So Archibald Connex was the first Watergate prosecutor and he was pushing Nixon very hard for taped conversations. It came out that Nixon was taping all his conversations. And that was by Alexander Butterfield, who was another CIA guy.
- [153:43]
A
Wow.
- [153:44]
B
I mean, he was a liaison guy between the CIA and the army and he lied to Halderman to get the job. So he was another CIA guy and he was the guy that coughed up the tapes. And then once the tapes, it came out that the tapes were that Nixon was making tapes of all his conversations. Then the prosecutors wanted certain tapes so they could find out what Nixon knew or whether or not he was obstructing justice. And the tapes. Nixon wouldn't surrender the tapes and he fired the special prosecutor. And then like there was a drumbeat for impeachment. And Nixon realized, whoa, you know what I just did was really reckless. And then he backpedaled at Mach 3 speed. And he had Haig hire a new special prosecutor. So Haig hired Leon Jaworski, this big time Houston lawyer, to be the new Watergate prosecutor. Leon Jaworski also got CI connections. He works at a. Well, he's a big time lawyer, but he also works for a foundation that's funneling money to various CIA causes domestically. So Haig. And they're looking for the tapes that will incriminate Nixon into the COVID up. Because shortly after Watergate, Nixon had Halderman and Ehrlichman and Richard Helms was the head of the CIA and Vernon Walters was the assistant director of the CIA, had those four get together. And Nixon wanted the FBI or the CIA to quash the FBI investigation. And Nixon told. And Nixon had grilled Helms at a certain point because Nixon knew that the CIA had participated in the JFK hit. And it's on the tapes. It's actually kind of funny. There's Richard Helms at Nixon's grilling him, who shot John? Who shot John. So Helms is very well aware that Nixon knows who shot John. So you've got this meeting between Halderman and Ehrlichman and Helms and Vernon Walters. And Halderman says, you guys have got to play our national security guard and quash this investigation by the FBI into Watergate. And Helms says, no, we're not going to do that. Now Nixon said to Halderman, if Helm says no, say it's going to bring about the Bay of Pigs thing. Because that was Nixon's nomenclature for the Kennedy hit, the Bay of Pigs thing. So as soon as Haldeman said, well, this could lead into the Bay of Pigs thing, then Holmes just went ballistic. And Holmes is one of those bureaucrats that never shows his emotions, but he just went ballistic and started screaming and hollering and he goes, okay, we'll do it. And then they leave. And Helms double cross is an accent. He doesn't do it. And which is because Helms just wants. Everybody wants. Well, the Hawks. And Helms is firmly a Hawk, wants snakes and gone. So what happens is Haig tells Woodward about the tapes, specific tapes. And then Haig tells Jaworski which tapes to subpoena. Which the tapes that show, like the conversation that Halderman had with Dick Helms. So all this information is coming from Haig to both Woodward and also Jaworski. And Jaworski eventually subpoenas the tapes that has Nixon talking about covering up Watergate. He did not order Watergate. And actually those guys did not know who ordered Watergate. They didn't realize till much later that it was Jeb Magruder and John Dean. And the Nixon Murray's was. I mean, the plumbers were engaged in some crazy stuff. So it was easy for Magruder to come in and Dean to come in and tell them to burgle the Watergate. So that's kind of Watergate in a nutshell, is that there was a conspiracy within a conspiracy. Some of the burglars were going for, like, blackmail material. But the CNI guys definitely wanted Nixon, Gaughan. And it ultimately came together. And with The Washington Post, with Bradley and Woodward being of the same ilk as Helms and the Joint Chiefs, they all wanted Nixon gone.
- [158:56]
A
Wow.
- [158:57]
B
So that's how Watergate went down. The Truth About Watergate, a tale of extraordinary lies and liars. And the thing about it is, as far as mendacity goes, we think of Nixon as a preeminent liar. But there were far greater liars in Watergate than just Nixon. I mean, John Dean was an amazing liar, and so is Bob, Wolverine, Kyle Bernstein, and Ed Bradley. I mean, those guys told unbelievable lies. And the thing with Deep Throat, it's so absurd. When Woodward rolled out Mark Felt with Alzheimer's, he went abridged too far. I mean, at that point, when I realized that there's no way that Mark Felt could be Deep Throat because he'd been fired, and there's no way he could have been providing that information, that's kind of. That was the first thing I kind of locked onto in Watergate.
- [159:58]
A
Man. That is. You know, I'm not very familiar with Watergate, but that was extremely informative.
- [160:07]
B
Well, that's what we tried to do, writers, is.
- [160:10]
A
I can't wait to dive into that book.
- [160:12]
B
It's an interesting book because, as I said, I try to make Watergate as accessible as possible. There are these huge tomes about Watergate, and they're great books, great investigative journalism, but they're so complex. So my goal was to make it as simple as possible. But just about every sentence has a citation. As I said earlier, there's 2,238 citations. And most of the stuff that comes from mainstream media, books where I was able to triangulate lies, and then thousands of pages of government documentation, because the truth is there. You just have to kind of sift through it. And I read books about Watergate for a number of years before I decided to write that book.
- [161:03]
A
Well, sounds like you got to the bottom of that, too.
- [161:08]
B
So I'm happy with how it's been received. No major publisher would touch it.
- [161:16]
A
Of course not.
- [161:20]
B
Unfortunately, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, they are the Mount Rushmore of journalism. And they tell so many lies. I mean, they lie when they don't even need to lie. That's what's kind of amazing about them. Bernstein said that he ducked a subpoena, that he was going to get subpoenaed, and he ducked the subpoena, and he went and saw the movie Deep Throat at that point. When he ducked that subpoena, the movie Deep Throat wasn't even showing in Washington, D.C. i mean, the lies. I mean, Bernstein talks about going out to. I think it's Maryland or Virginia to meet with one of the treasurers of the Committee to Reelect the President. And he talks about going through this hellacious rain, this hellacious storm as he driving out there. There was no storm that day. I mean, it's. I mean. And if you read all the President's Men, which won a Pulitzer Prize, became a bestseller, and that was a movie with Robert Redford and Dustin Hulman, it's fiction. It's been embraced as reality. And you've got all these kids going to journalism school wanting to be Woodward and Bernstein, when really there is no Woodward and Bernstein.
- [162:49]
A
Wow. Wow.
- [162:50]
B
And it was a silent coup. The coup of 63 was very problematic. Most Americans did not believe the Warren Commission report. 66% of Americans believe that Oswald didn't act alone. But it was even higher there because the Warren Commission, as Bobby Kennedy said, the Bobby Kennedy that got assassinated, a pretty shoddy piece of work. So I think assassinating Nixon was off the table. This was how they felt like they had to get them out, man. But what's really interesting in 1967, because there was a huge backlash against the Warren Commission Report. I mean, the Warren Commission Report is very problematic, and a lot of people weren't buying it. So the CIA came out with a dispatch in 1967, and it said that the people who don't believe in the Warren Commission, we're going to call them conspiracy theorists. And then it gave a number of rationales why conspiracy theorists are conspiracy theorists. And then it was disseminated to editors and people with juice. The New York Times and the Washington Post used the word conspiracy theorist about once a year prior to that 1967 dispatch. But after that 1977 dispatch, the term conspiracy theory and conspiracy theorists just shot up exponentially in both papers. So people just automatically think of something, and they are conspiracy theory. They're drinking the Kool Aid.
- [164:51]
A
Still see it today.
- [164:52]
B
Yeah, they don't. They have no idea that they're drinking the Kool Aid. Yeah, it kind of amazes me.
- [165:01]
A
It's very interesting to see how easily people get sucked in.
- [165:08]
B
And I think eventually Watergate's gonna be broken open. There's too many good books about it. I mean, my book is a good overview of what actually happened. And then there's some really good books about it. I mean, really amazing investigative journalism has been done with Watergate. So I think that John Dean and Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein are really. It's only a matter of time until they're outed as liars, history is not going to look very favorably on them. And the thing about Nixon, and I'm not a Nixon apologist, he did some bad things. I mean, he fomented the coup, the Pinochet coup in Chile, which Pinochet was a bad guy. He facilitated Suharto in Indonesia, and then we basically gave tacit approval of Pol Pot because Pol Pot was aligned with the Chinese and we wanted to establish diplomatic relations with Chinese. So Nixon did some really bad things, but he also did some really good things, too. In addition to trying to become a peacemaker with the Soviet Union, limit nuclear arms, he tried to get universal healthcare passed, and he tried to get for families with children a minimum amount of money that they would get, which was like 4,500 from the government. If they were getting like 25,000, if they were getting like 3,000, they'd be supplemented, which would be $40,000 now. So Nixon did some. He started the EPA, he started OSHA. He went up one hundred and thirty one percent on welfare spending. He increased education spending by 50%. Now he's just looked at this monolith of evil, but he did do some good things, but he tangled with the wrong people. He thought. He thought he was a smart guy. He thought he could beat them, that he got out with them.
- [167:15]
A
Man. Fascinating stuff.
- [167:18]
B
Yeah.
- [167:20]
A
Well, Nick, I just want to say thank you for coming on, and the link to your new book, the Truth About Watergate, will be in the description below. And just want to say thank you.
- [167:35]
B
And I want to remind people the first Epstein Justice Forum is in Dunlap, Iowa, on July 17, and we're going to have a fundraiser in Knoxville on September 27th. So we're going to get this Epstein justice machine going.
- [167:54]
A
Good. Good. Makes me happy to hear.
- [168:00]
B
I'm doing this with some pretty stalwart people, so we're going to give it our best shot.
- [168:08]
A
Good.
- [168:08]
B
And we're going to succeed. I'll predict that right now, as Joe Namath predicted before the 1969 Super bowl, we're going to win. And everybody thought he was crazy. Well, I'm predicting Epstein justice will prevail.
- [168:24]
A
Well, I hope it does. I really do. And I wish you the best of luck.
- [168:30]
B
Thank you. Hey, it's Rich Eisen here. Join me and my compadre Chris Brockman every Monday on the Overreaction Monday podcast. Rich Jamis has taken the Browns to the playoffs. Dude, why can't they win seven, eight.
- [168:58]
A
Games to finish the year? Why not?
- [169:00]
B
I'm not saying that.
- [169:01]
A
No? Why not?
- [169:01]
B
But this is a definitive statement that's clearly an overreaction. And it's perfect fodder for a show like this one. I appreciate you coming out of the gate hot. Come react or overreact with us. Overreaction Monday, wherever you listen, it's game over over, man.