#180 Major James Capers Jr. - Vietnam Marine Commando Silver Star Recipient

Summary

Shawn Ryan Show Episode #180: Major James Capers Jr. - Vietnam Marine Commando Silver Star Recipient

Release Date: March 7, 2025
Host: Shawn Ryan
Guest: Major James Capers Jr., retired United States Marine Corps officer and Vietnam War veteran

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Introduction

Shawn Ryan welcomes Major James Capers Jr. to the "Shawn Ryan Show," highlighting Capers as the first Vietnam veteran featured on the program. Ryan emphasizes the significance of documenting Capers' experiences, especially given the absence of comprehensive accounts of the Vietnam War.

Notable Quote:

• Sean Ryan (00:58): "You're the first Vietnam veteran to be on the show... It's such an honor to have you here."

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Early Life and Childhood

Major Capers shares his early years growing up in South Carolina. He recounts the hardship of his father being placed on a chain gang in the 1930s, a period marked by severe racial discrimination and forced labor for African Americans. At around four years old, Capers was sent to live with a white farming family in Baltimore, Maryland, due to his father's circumstances. This transition was traumatic, with Capers recalling vague memories of his caretakers and the challenges of reintegrating with his biological family after recovering from illness.

Notable Quotes:

• Major Capers (03:52): "The chain gang is when they took mostly African Americans and put them out and they did hard labor."
• Major Capers (07:07): "So a lot of kids were like that, had these bags on your shoulder and you were out there picking cotton."

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Military Career: Joining the Marines

Inspired by the military presence he witnessed on television and driven by patriotism, Capers enlisted in the United States Marine Corps in 1956. He describes the rigorous training he underwent, which included jump school, scouting, and later Force Reconnaissance. Despite facing racial discrimination within the military ranks, Capers persevered, eventually receiving a battlefield commission to second lieutenant without attending traditional officer training schools.

Notable Quotes:

• Major Capers (16:51): "Back in those days, everybody you know after World War I joined in '56."
• Major Capers (35:57): "These guys were nuts. Damn, you think SEAL training got to be pretty good..."

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Military Operations: Suez Canal and Lebanon

Capers details his early military deployments, including missions to the Suez Canal and Lebanon during times of political turmoil. Under President Eisenhower's orders, he participated in shows of force to reopen the canal and evacuate American civilians amidst Lebanese civil conflict. These operations marked his first combat experiences, where he led squads in challenging mountainous terrains, engaging with enemy snipers and enduring harsh conditions.

Notable Quotes:

• Major Capers (18:10): "The mission was to go behind enemy lines and kill those son of a bitches."
• Major Capers (22:13): "In 20 years of my experience in the Marine Corps, I was never defeated."

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Reenlistment and Joining Force Recon

Despite personal hardships, including the death of his first son and later his wife, Capers reenlisted to stay with his Marine brothers. He describes the intense selection process for Force Recon, highlighting the physical and mental challenges he overcame. Capers emphasizes his resilience in the face of racism within the unit, maintaining his leadership and earning the respect of his peers through steadfastness and competence.

Notable Quotes:

• Major Capers (35:43): "I did pass, of course. Well, actually, I didn't pass...I didn't make it."
• Major Capers (40:00): "I don't back down from him. No? No."

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Vietnam War Service

Capers provides a harrowing account of his service in the Vietnam War. As part of Force Recon, he undertook numerous missions that involved deep reconnaissance, ambushes, and close-quarters combat. He recounts the brutality of guerrilla warfare, the loss of fellow Marines, and the moral complexities of battle, including moments where he had to make split-second decisions to save his men, such as rescuing a teammate from a shark attack during a diving mission.

Notable Quotes:

• Major Capers (59:53): "The mission was to go behind enemy lines and kill as many of them as you can."
• Major Capers (66:23): "If you kill them, KIA...if you wound them, you don't know if you wounded them."

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Personal Life: Marriage and Family Tragedies

Capers opens up about his personal life, detailing his 50-year marriage to his high school sweetheart, Dottie Capers. The couple faced significant challenges, including raising a blind child and coping with the untimely deaths of both his son Gary—who died of appendicitis—and his wife Dottie, who succumbed to cancer. These losses deeply impacted Capers, leading to struggles with PTSD and the demons that followed him home from war.

Notable Quotes:

• Major Capers (30:05): "I love Dottie Caperson. The first time I saw her, we went through hell."
• Major Capers (31:17): "Our first child, Gary, was born blind... He played the flute, the melodica, the organ piano. But he had other difficult things."
• Major Capers (100:58): "God has him now. He's in the bosom of God."

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Post-Military Life and Foundation

After retiring from the Marine Corps, Capers dedicated himself to supporting veterans and combating homelessness through the Gary and Dottie Capers Foundation. The foundation focuses on providing meals, shelter, and support to homeless individuals, honoring the legacy of his late family members by giving back to the community. Capers underscores the importance of remembering and assisting those in need, reflecting on his own experiences of being helped during his childhood.

Notable Quotes:

• Major Capers (179:17): "We started for Gary, but Dottie was still alive. And we started this thing and we'd bring people in, friends in, and raise money for a nonprofit."
• Major Capers (181:21): "We moved some to my home. We brought the homeless in and Dottie cooked for them, washed their clothes, trying to help, just like I'd been helped."

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Notable Stories and Experiences

Throughout the interview, Capers shares several vivid anecdotes from his military service:

1. Shark Rescue Mission (60:02): Capers describes a diving mission where a tiger shark threatened a teammate. Demonstrating exemplary leadership, he swam out to save his comrade, an act that went unrecognized with no medals awarded.

2. Helicopter Miracle (150:48): During a critical rescue operation, Capers recounts how a helicopter he was aboard appeared to defy logic by not crashing despite low fuel, attributing this miraculous event to divine intervention.

3. POW Rescue Attempt (73:58): Capers narrates a failed mission to rescue American POWs, highlighting the emotional toll and disappointment of not securing their freedom despite intensive training and effort.

Notable Quotes:

• Major Capers (60:06): "If you killed them, KIA...if you wounded them, you don't know if you wounded them."
• Major Capers (150:48): "God reached out with his mighty hand and kept it flying... God saved us when we needed to be saved."

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Reflections and Insights

Capers reflects on the enduring impact of war on his life, grappling with PTSD and the loss of loved ones. He emphasizes the importance of leadership, resilience, and the bonds formed with fellow Marines. Despite the traumas, Capers expresses unwavering faith in God and a commitment to honor his family's legacy through his foundational work. He also touches on the challenges African American Marines faced during his service, advocating for recognition and support for veterans.

Notable Quotes:

• Major Capers (156:18): "I don't think about dying... I have friends like you to keep me going."
• Major Capers (158:12): "They're gonna give me the Medal of Honor. President, so I don't know whether he'll get around to it or even if he wants to."

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Conclusion

Shawn Ryan concludes the episode by expressing deep gratitude for Major Capers' service and storytelling. He underscores the honor of sharing such a profound and inspiring life story, highlighting the possibility of Major Capers' Silver Star being upgraded to a Medal of Honor—a testament to his bravery and dedication.

Notable Quote:

• Sean Ryan (185:48): "And I really hope your Silver Star gets upgraded to a Medal of Honor would be nice."

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Final Thoughts

Episode #180 of the "Shawn Ryan Show" provides an unflinching and heartfelt portrayal of Major James Capers Jr.'s life, from his challenging childhood to his valorous military service and personal losses. Capers' narrative is a powerful reminder of the sacrifices made by veterans and the enduring strength of the human spirit.

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Note: For listeners interested in supporting Major Capers' foundation or learning more about his legacy, links and contact information are available in the episode's description.

Transcript

[Major James Capers]

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[Sean Ryan]

Major James Capers, welcome to the show.

[Major James Capers]

Good afternoon. It's good to be here.

[Sean Ryan]

It's good to have. It's an honor to have you here.

[Major James Capers]

Thank you.

[Sean Ryan]

So. So you popped up on our radar, I think, about a couple weeks ago, and, man, I just want to say, I think, I mean, it is a real honor to have you here. You're the first Vietnam veteran to be on the show, and that's something that I've been really looking forward to, getting somebody on the show that served in that war. And to have you here is just. I'm over the moon about it. It's such an honor to have you here. We haven't documented this war at all yet, and so, so this is. This is something that I've been real excited about, and so thank you for making the trip.

[Major James Capers]

It's good to be here.

[Sean Ryan]

So I want to get right into it.

[Unknown]

So I want to do a life story on you. And from what I understand, there's a really good possibility that your Silver Star might be getting upgraded to Medal of.

[Sean Ryan]

Honor, and I hope this gets to.

[Unknown]

The right people to make that happen.

[Sean Ryan]

I just want to put that out right up front so everybody listening understands.

[Unknown]

You know, how important this interview is.

[Sean Ryan]

And we want to be a part of making that happen and in documenting your life story.

[Unknown]

So everybody starts off with a introduction.

[Sean Ryan]

So here we go.

[Unknown]

Major James Capers, you are a retired United States Marine Corps officer and true American hero. You're a pioneer in reconnaissance training tactics and recognized for your legendary career that overcame obstacles and broke barriers on and off the battlefield. You are one of the first African American Marines to serve in the elite force reconnaissance companies and the first to receive a battlefield commission. You are a recipient of numerous awards, including the Silver Star, two Bronze Stars with Valor, three Purple Hearts, and induction into the US Special Operation Command's Commando hall of Honor. You are the author of Faith through the storm, memoirs of Major James Capers, Jr. You are the subject of the documentary Major Capers, the Legend of Team Broad Minded. You are a father figure to Team Broad minded. A specialized group of Force Reconnaissance Marines. And you continue to honor their legacy through annual reunions and your ongoing involvement in. In special operations community. Welcome to the show.

[Major James Capers]

Thank you.

[Sean Ryan]

All right, so.

[Unknown]

We got quite a.

[Sean Ryan]

Bit to cover here.

[Unknown]

Okay, but what I'd like to start with is your childhood. So I understand you grew up in South Carolina.

[Major James Capers]

Partly. I lived there early years. And then my father was put on the chain gang. This was back in the old days, 30s.

[Sean Ryan]

What is the chain gang?

[Major James Capers]

The chain gang is when they took mostly African Americans and put them out and they did hard labor. Was sort of a. I don't know, I wasn't born back then, but mostly black individuals was put on this chain gang. Tough living. They took away from their families. My father was on this chain gang, but some way he got away and went to Baltimore, Maryland. And I had gotten sick before he left. He gave me to a white family. This was the family that they were all farmers out in this area. And they took me in and brought me back to health. And today they're trying to find descendants of that family.

[Sean Ryan]

How old were you when you were given to a white family?

[Major James Capers]

Probably about four.

[Sean Ryan]

Four years old. Do you have any recollection of that?

[Major James Capers]

Well, there were days when I thought I could remember a female who obviously would feed me and care for me. And in my memory she looked like a blonde lady. I could remember a female with blonde hair. And so that's all I really remember, except I was cared for. But at some point I was given back to my family once I'd been cured. Back in those days, we had a lot of childhood diseases. We lost a lot of young American, black Americans from those diseases at that time. And I was given back to my family completely cured or healed. And then my mother, my sister and two brothers and myself, at some point at night, a vehicle showed up at our shack. That's where we lived back in those days. And we picked cotton, crop tobacco, the rural south. And vehicle showed up and we end up in Baltimore. And I was probably five or six or something like that. Nobody really knows. There's no records. There's no records of my being born. I don't have a birth certificate. Wow, that's the rural south back in those days. And I finally got to Baltimore and started in school.

[Sean Ryan]

So you were working in the fields as a five to six year old child.

[Major James Capers]

So a lot of kids were like that, had these bags on your shoulder and you were out there picking cotton. Now you had adults out there that would go along with You. But everybody worked. You couldn't stay home unless you were sick, something like that. I picked a lot of cotton and learned to crop tobacco and slopped the hogs and all the rule work. Everybody worked.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[Major James Capers]

There was no downtime.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you remember the vehicle showing up in the middle of the night at the shack?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah, it was like a old ford, like a 29 Ford or something like that. One of the old vehicles thrown into the car and we took off.

[Sean Ryan]

What did your parents tell you? Do you remember?

[Major James Capers]

Well, they. My father wasn't there. He was in Baltimore. It was apparently arranged for another group to take us to Baltimore. So we got in the vehicle and next thing I know, we were in Baltimore as a child. Those are my memories. Back in the old days, you couldn't eat at restaurants, you know, you couldn't go into the facilities, bathrooms, things like that. You had black and you had white. And so these were things. My mother told me how difficult it was for her as a female. There'd been a lot of books written on this subject, how African Americans made that transition, almost slavery. It was not slavery. Of course, we know that that was over, but the remnants were still there. We were treated like slaves. And there were a lot of pieces to that that I saw and I remembered. But when I got to Baltimore, they put me in school as a child. I had no birth certificates. Nobody really knew who I was. And the first James Campers Jr. Passed away, so they renamed me James Capers Jr. But there was always some feeling that I was reincarnating my older brother. But no, I had no birth certificate. Years later we tried to find something out, but that was a problem that I had. And even Today I got two birth dates. 25 August and 27 August. Nobody knows how that happened.

[Sean Ryan]

Which birthday do you like better?

[Major James Capers]

25.

[Sean Ryan]

Right on. So how was it when you got to Baltimore?

[Major James Capers]

Well, it was euphoria. I loved it. Buildings and schools and restaurants, of course, wasn't designed for folks like us coming from the south. We didn't know anything. Basically, we had to learn the system there in Baltimore. Went to school, did well, graduated high school.

[Sean Ryan]

There were you welcomed in school.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

They didn't have any of those Jim Crow laws.

[Major James Capers]

Well, not in Baltimore, but it was an all black school. Everybody, teachers were blacks, students were black. So it was hard for me coming from the South. That was certainly different from where I had been until Baltimore had streetlights and automobiles and all those things that I never saw on the cotton fields in South Carolina.

[Sean Ryan]

Interesting how long did it take you to get used to that, that culture change?

[Major James Capers]

Well, took me a while. Because I was a country boy, they didn't readily accept me into the city. You know, I didn't know the language, you know, took me a while to learn. There were stores on each corner, and, you know, the school was different. The children there spoke differently than I spoke from the South. But I knew that I could do it, and I pressed on.

[Sean Ryan]

How did your. How did your. How did your family integrate? Were they. I mean, was there a. Was there a sense of relief being up there? Was everybody happier?

[Major James Capers]

Well, I was happy. Color of our skin took that away. We worked hard, and my father got a job, and us children, we were happy about that. He got a job in the steel mill. You know, World War II was there. I remember World War II. And he worked in a steel factory. And I guess they built ships for the fleet back in those days, the Maryland Dry Dock Company. And he earned a pretty good living and was able to sustain us. But when I became a little older, I sold newspapers and sold junk, did anything I could to add to the family.

[Sean Ryan]

How old were you when that started?

[Major James Capers]

About seven.

[Unknown]

Seven years old.

[Sean Ryan]

You started selling these pigs.

[Major James Capers]

Then they stopped because they had a law then that you had to be at least 12 years old as a child to work. But no, we did all hustling, whatever you could do to do those types of things to add to the income of the family.

[Sean Ryan]

Did you have any hobbies as a kid, or was it just work?

[Major James Capers]

Mostly work. But, yeah, you always find some kind of way to do something, shoot marbles. And they don't know about marbles these days. But, you know, we did that. And we played all of the games, basketball, which we didn't have. The hoops and things we had, took baskets and put them up on a wall or something, and that was our net. We had to be. You know, we had to really be creative because they didn't provide anything from us for us. So we worked hard, and I learned how to take care of myself because in a way, it was kind of dangerous. You know, everybody carried knives and guns and things. And many days there were firefights. I mean, not like a military firefight, but pistols. And.

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[Major James Capers]

SRS those types of things were dangerous and you kept away from that.

[Sean Ryan]

You kept away from that.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Did you carry a weapon as a kid?

[Major James Capers]

No.

[Sean Ryan]

No.

[Major James Capers]

First weapon I had was when I joined Boot Camp 1956.

[Sean Ryan]

What got you. What got you interested in the military?

[Major James Capers]

Back in those days, everybody you know after World war I joined in 56. But World War II was over and Korea, we were still digging out of Korea. That happened. Ended in 54 and I joined in 56 and I had learned quite a bit. We had television there in Baltimore. I had never seen a television before. So we had television and we saw these military guys on TV and they were recruiting. Back in those days you had to join or they would draft you. So if you didn't join, someone would come by. And then when you turned 18. Yeah, you had to join some military. And I saw the Marine uniform on TV and I saw some of the recruiters thinking, that looks pretty good. You know, I'll go ahead and join the Marine. So we did. My old buddy, we joined in June of 1956.

[Sean Ryan]

Did you want to go to war?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

You did?

[Major James Capers]

World War II, all the newspapers. We were patriotic, loved that flag, and we have to go protect it. We were taught that. And I really couldn't wait to protect my country. That was my thought process as a young man.

[Sean Ryan]

Were we involved in any conflicts in. In the year 1956?

[Major James Capers]

The US in the US in 56.

[Sean Ryan]

It was peacetime, correct?

[Major James Capers]

Well, I joined the military in 56, and I went to war in 56.

[Sean Ryan]

You went to war in 56?

[Major James Capers]

I got out of boot camp. They sent me to Suez Canal. The Egyptians had closed the Suez Canal. And so Eisenhower was our president. And they said, you know, we're not going to put up with that. He was a wartime president. So he sent the first battalion, second raise over there, and we got it done. We didn't land, but just the appearance of that battalion coming in with the American flag and they opened it back up again. I went back in 1957 when the Syrians started a war. We went back and we didn't have to land to chase the Syrians. We just went back as a show of force. And in 58, I went back and we landed in Beirut. The Egyptians had closed the Suez Canal, and our job was to get it back open again. That was 58 when we actually, the Syrians and the Lebanese started a big war. And of course, Eisenhower was still president. He was president until Kennedy come in. And so we went there again. We landed and we fought in the mountains and, you know, fought the snipers and all of the things that was happening in that time.

[Sean Ryan]

Is that the. Is 58 when you evacuated Americans from Lebanon?

[Major James Capers]

The airport? Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Is that the first time you saw combat? Yeah, firsthand. How did that feel? Describe that experience?

[Major James Capers]

You know, I mean, I was a Marine, and it wasn't a problem for me. We landed, we evacuated the airport, we took the civilians out. You know, the embassies that were there, we got them out. But we had a thousand Marines, though, and I was a squad leader. You know, I was in charge of some troops, and I had to get it done. I was an NCO now, and dying for me wasn't that big of a deal. I'd been trained by guys that fought in Guanacanal and Iwo Jima, you know, coming through as a young man. So that's what we were trained to do. You're going to fight. And we went up the mountains with the old M1s, threw a lot of hand grenades. We learned to make parapets and dig foxholes and eat terrible rations and it was a hard duty force. But we all got a nice letter from Eisenhower thanking us. Then we got one from our commandant thanking us. Did a good job.

[Sean Ryan]

How long was that battle?

[Major James Capers]

A few months.

[Sean Ryan]

You were there for a few months?

[Major James Capers]

A few months wasn't that long, was it?

[Sean Ryan]

Fighting every day?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah. We had to go into the mountains and that's where they were. And some of them had come across from Syria. You have to understand how that stuff was back in those days. Nobody liked us, the Syrians. But they took our money and the things that we brought over there. Now we came in on ships. They didn't fly us in. The other guys that came in from Germany, Army Group came in from Germany and they sort of give us some relief, but they could fight. They had been in Germany since World War II, so this is 1958. They came in and relieved us. And when we were tired, though, we'd been fighting in those mountains day and night. And I had my first experiences of killing a human being. Didn't really bother me. I didn't feel any real. It didn't bother you, killing a human being? I had my first experiences with killing a human being.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, let's talk about that experience.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

How was the first human you killed?

[Major James Capers]

How did that experience go in the mountains? Up on top of the mountains? They had buildings up there and they had their hideouts and things up there. So my job was to go up there and clear it out with my squad. And I hit a small building and a couple of the guys tried to run out and I shot and killed both of them. I didn't feel anything, Nothing. No remorse. And then we, when we were hit at night in the mountains, you know, we fought them off, you know, so. Never lost a battle. In 20 years of my experience in the Marine Corps, I was never defeated. No one ever defeated me.

[Sean Ryan]

What was it like for you to come home after rescuing Americans in Lebanon during that civil war? When's the first time you went back home to see your family?

[Major James Capers]

Well, we were there for six months Cruise. And after we fought in Lebanon, they put us aboard ships and they sent us back. It took us 30 days to get home. You know, it was enlightening. And then when we were told we were going home, we got home. And part of that was my high school sweetheart, which I had fallen madly in love with. Dottie Capers. We were married 50 years. Still love her today. Never remarri. That's my son back there. But any rate, I'm sorry.

[Sean Ryan]

When is the first time you went home to your mom, your brothers and your sisters?

[Major James Capers]

Oh, yeah, that was good. Came home from Lebanon. I was an nco. I wanted to see my mom, but I want to see, you know, my wife, where he was. My wife, my girlfriend. I madly in love with Dottie Capers. Never loved a woman other than Dottie Capers. And we weren't married at that time. But I called on her. And it was a whirlwind type of thing. And this was 1958, December. So long there. We went into. We went into the Caribbean for a while. Had to do some work down there. We had some thugs and whatever, so we had to go do that. Then the Syrian thing popped up. All in this area. I don't know if I got the timing right. It was a long time ago, but 59 come around and my three years was up. I could either stay in the Marine Corps or I can get out now and go home. But going home wasn't much of an attraction. Now, I'd been with some of the finest military guys in the world. I'd fought with them, I shed blood with them. I want to stay with them. But I saw Dottie, and I decided to stay with the Marine Corps. I reenlisted.

[Sean Ryan]

How did you meet Dottie?

[Major James Capers]

She was my high school sweetheart.

[Sean Ryan]

You met her in high school?

[Major James Capers]

I met her in high school. First time I saw her, I was in love. She was walking by, I was with a group of other guys. And I saw she had on a yellow dress. And I looked at her, I couldn't believe it. I went home and I told my ma. I said, ma, guess what? I saw this girl today. And she said, sit down, son. We'll talk. We'll talk. But I loved her so much. And every chance I got to see her in the halls of the school. There was a Carver High School. And I tried to find a way to sneak around to see her. And sometimes in the hallway, I had the nerve to stop her. And I talked to her and fell in love. And when I held her hand when she was dying and she winked at me, she was dying of cancer. I was holding her hand. We'd been married 50 years, but that was her. Strong woman. Military wives, you know, back during that time, you know, they got it done because we were gone a lot. I did 14 years overseas. I fought two wars, include the thing in the Middle East.

[Sean Ryan]

When did you guys get married?

[Major James Capers]

June of 1959. I reenlisted and they paid me a lot of money. Wasn't much in today's. We look at it and say that was no money at all. But that was great for me because I was a military guy. I didn't need a whole lot of money at the time, though. When I joined, I was sending my parents monies. That's what we all did. We had allotments and. Because I just appreciated what they'd done for me, you know, coming from the south and all that. And they were not really educated folks. We were farmers, basically. But I did well. Married Dottie. We went to California. I hooked up with First Force Recon Company.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, before we get to First Force Recon, you were married for 50 years?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

So I want to ask you, what is your. In your opinion, what is the. What is the secret to a successful marriage?

[Major James Capers]

I will tell you. I love Dottie Caperson. The first time I saw her, we went through hell. We raised a blind child. Our first child, Gary, was born blind, in special needs and good child. He played the flute, the melodica, the organ piano. But he had other difficult things. And after we were married or we were married, then the military didn't have schooling for him. For my son. Wonderful child. I loved him so much. I was holding his hand when he closed his eyes. He died of appendicitis. Then it seemed like the next day my wife died of cancer. And the demons come home.

[Sean Ryan]

How do you stay happily married for 50 years? What's the secret?

[Major James Capers]

I love this so much. She kicked me out once.

[Sean Ryan]

She kicked you out?

[Major James Capers]

Kicked me out once.

[Sean Ryan]

What'd you do? Did you deserve it?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah. I went out with the guys and stayed overnight and. And I didn't call her. I came home. I used to wear cowboy hats, you know, back in the old. That was one of the things I wore for cowboy boots, like I have on now. And I wore cowboy hats. So she took my cowboy hat and threw it out. Then went over and stomped on it. So I knew that I was in trouble. She let me come back. And she was such a sweetheart. I remember when we were a snake bitter. She was out feeding the fish at a fish pond. She was out there feeding the fish with her hand. A snake Come up and bit her on her hand. This takes away from your. What are you talking about there? I was telling you about that time. Want a snake, bit her and she didn't panic. She scared of snakes, bit her on the finger. She come in and said, sweetheart, I've been bit by a snake. I panic. But I did the first aid. We had to get down to the emergency room. So we went there, but the snake was not poisonous. One of my troops who lived next door, he wouldn't kill the snake. Brought it down to the hospital and they looked at it. It was not poisonous. But just the whole idea of her demeanor at that time, you know, I think I would have. I've been struck close by snakes. Never got hit by a poisonous snake. But I've been around, you know, pythons and all this other stuff in Southeast Asia. But I'm just saying about Dottie, she's so brave. Got her taken care of. But we went through a lot of challenges together. I got sent over overseas for 15 months as a Marine Pathfinder back in the old days and had to send her home, put her on a train and sent her back to Baltimore with my child. And I was gone for that period of time. Interesting world back then as far as Marines are concerned. And the army guys too, you know, which we did work a lot with. And the seals were just coming on board. So they came on board and was set 70, 61.

[Sean Ryan]

Did you work with the SEALs?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

How was that?

[Major James Capers]

It was good because they were young guys. They were UDT guys at first, and then they wanted to move beyond a high water line. See, we were old school, but that's what I did for my time in the military. I did dive masters and combat swims, and I did all of that. But the SEALs were new guys. They were Unwanted Demolition Team, but they moved them from swimming. Then they went beyond a high water line, which meant that they could go out and blow shit up. Pardon my language. They were good. They were young. And we had a lot of Marines went over to the SEALs.

[Sean Ryan]

Really?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. A lot of the SEALs were Marines.

[Sean Ryan]

Interesting.

[Major James Capers]

Oh, yeah. I knew a lot of them. A lot of the seals. I worked with them in Vietnam, you know. Of course, I was an old guy, you know, I was 29 years old. I was the dive master. And, you know, I did all that because I'd been in for a while and I was good at it. I did.

[Sean Ryan]

Let's go back to 1959, all right. Where he became the first African American to join the Marine Corps, Special Operations, Force Recon.

[Major James Capers]

That's what they tell me.

[Sean Ryan]

That's what they tell you?

[Major James Capers]

That's what they tell me. I join up. And to join Force Recon at that time, you had to be almost a superman. These guys.

[Sean Ryan]

So did you know what Force Recon was when you'd signed up for it?

[Major James Capers]

I'd heard about it.

[Sean Ryan]

How'd you hear about it?

[Major James Capers]

Guys had told me about. And it had a newspaper there, it was the Scout newspaper in California. And it had an article on them guys jumping out of airplanes and swimming and diving. And I thought this was pretty cool. I'd been in the grunts for three years, so I went down and took the test. They kicked the hell out of me. These guys were nuts. Damn, you think SEAL training got to be pretty good, you know, we didn't have a whole lot of these guys. And I passed, of course. Well, actually, I didn't pass. They said I didn't pass. They said, well, come back on Monday. This was Friday. I took the test. You didn't make it. Come back on Monday and take it again. Okay. Showed up on Monday, took it again. They said, put him in. They took me in to see the first sergeant. Then I had to go see the captain. And the captain was in his office and he had a hand grenade on his windowsill. I saw it. I'd seen hand grenades before. And he said something dumb like, what would you do with his hand grenade? I said, I thought out the window. With the window. I was sitting, the window was open, and this guy jumped up, grabbed the hand grenade and pulled the pen. It was a joke. They want to see if I was going to run. No. I went through all this hell to get here. Now, you're not gonna make me run out of this office there. But that's a little induction type stuff. I did three years there, went overseas with the Marine Pathfinders.

[Sean Ryan]

What was the training like?

[Major James Capers]

Well, essentially the jump school and all types of programs. You had a platoon, had a team, and out on the west coast, it was crazy. PT every day, during the day. I was married at that time. But now you had to live in the barracks. And for as long as I can remember, we were swimming, running and diving and all kinds of stuff they created. The seals hadn't come on yet. This was 1961, right? In 60. So I went to jump school in 60. That was separate. Then when I come back, I went through the recon indoctrination. And I was a pretty good kid. I could handle myself. They were tough. We had guys from World War II in there. Not many, but, you know, they were new guys. We had some army in there. We had some SEALs. Not SEALs, but UDT guys. And the corpsmen were SEALs or Navy, right? Yeah, Navy guys. Yeah. But First Force was my indoctrination into Special Operations.

[Sean Ryan]

What did it feel like for you to graduate to training?

[Major James Capers]

Well, we didn't graduate from the training. They just put you in a platoon. You go through all indoctrination, which is the stuff now, that jungle warfare and mine clearing and all kind of stuff we went through. We didn't have a battalion. It was one company. And the folks that ran that company, pretty tough guys. And they only took the best guys. The toughest guys, Hattie, huge guys. I don't know where they got those guys from. I mean, really, when I saw those guys, you know, and they could fight, they could fight, but a lot of them were overrated, I thought, became hot dogs. And I came there for a serious tour of duty. So I got in a little trouble. Some of the guys thought, well, I'm a black guy, so let's give this black guy a hard time. Didn't work that way. I didn't back down from him. No? No.

[Sean Ryan]

How'd they give you a hard time?

[Major James Capers]

Cause I was black.

[Unknown]

How?

[Major James Capers]

I was the only black guy there.

[Sean Ryan]

What would they do?

[Major James Capers]

Well, one time, after some horrendous program, I was tired and I was in the squad bay and I laid down this bed and the guys came by and with this cross and put a rebel flag on me and, you know, this stuff, and they laughed about it, and I saw it. Then when I got up, clean myself up, let it go. Indoctrination. And thought they were going to scare me. Nah, you don't scare Jim Capers. I'd worked too hard to get there, and by that time, I had a wife and a child. And of course, they paid you 55 for enlisted, 55 bucks for jump pay. And. And I became an officer. It went up to $110. I don't know what they do now, but it was extra pay, so it was incentive, and I enjoyed the tour. A lot of racism back in those days. I mean, those things that I saw. And it bothered me, but it didn't deter me.

[Sean Ryan]

And in 1966, was that your first tour to Vietnam?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

And so what did you think when you got orders to go to Vietnam?

[Major James Capers]

What was going on?

[Sean Ryan]

You wanted to go?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah, I was at the. When I come back from First Force, they sent me back to The east coast to train troops and something we call itr. They learn to do those types of things in the field. So I had that type of work to do. I was a sergeant E5 at the time, and I stayed there for a few months. Force Recon was looking for volunteers. I had been in first Force, did that job, okay. Now Vietnam guys were bleeding and casualty list was high. And when I got to Fort Meade, I was on what I don't know, they call it hardship. I had a blind child at home. So the commandant of the Marine Corps said that you don't have to go to combat because you've got a blind son and a young wife. So I went to. Didn't have to go to Vietnam, but I saw the casualty list, saw the news cycles. Every night I watched it and all those young men were dying. I saw the clips and I'm at home at night. And then they put me on something called a Fort Meade Guard. It was a ceremonial unit. Went out to Fort Meade, which is where the Star Spangled Band was written. So I had a little group, we marched out there every Thursday. Marched out there and twirled rifles and carried the flag around. And we had a band with us. The band played and we marched. And at night when we come home, I had to watch young guys carrying the flag in Vietnam and bringing the dead Marines home. Soldiers home with airmen home. And one day I asked Dottie, she said, I know what you're thinking. I know what you're thinking. How do you know what I'm thinking? You don't know what I'm thinking. She said, yes, I do know what you think. I see the news also. I know you're training. I've been there with you. I know it's time for you to go. And if you choose to go to Vietnam, Gary and I will be here when you come back. And my adjutant and another officer a couple days later came to my house, lived on the base, army base. And they came to my house and said, sergeant, we know you volunteered to go back to Vietnam or to go to Vietnam. I hadn't been before and I just wanted to talk to your wife about it. My wife said, you don't need to talk to me if you don't need something to eat or drink, your night's over. Night's over. He's my husband. I'm American too. I'm a citizen too. I'll be here when he comes back. And he will come back. And gentlemen, you're nice. Over. And one of them said, well, Ms. Capers, we just want to let you know that he doesn't have to go. You know, the commandant's got him on a hold, just. I'm his wife, I gave birth to his child and I'll be here. They left. I got orders to go to Vietnam and I joined the Force Recon and that was hard. Third Force was made up of First Force and Second Force. Anybody else we can get to have the qualifications Now, I'd been in first four, so I'm good to go. So my job was to train the other guys coming in. I'd already been to jumping. I went to scuba school again, went to Coronado. I think it was four week course. It was hard, but I was honor graduating.

[Sean Ryan]

You were the honor graduate, honor graduating.

[Major James Capers]

You know, they worked as hard. We swam a lot, we did a lot of water work and I enjoyed it because I swam my ass off in First Force.

[Sean Ryan]

You enjoyed diving?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

You're the only person I know that enjoyed diving in the Coronado Bay.

[Major James Capers]

Well, I did that. And at the end of the course, one of my guys was going. I had 19 Marines that was in the class and we were all going to Vietnam. So one of my kids didn't make the distance swim. Before you graduate, you gotta make that distance swim and they don't give you any slack on that. And he was a little bit late. So the Chief says, hey, Sarge, we can't graduate him. I said, chief, come on now, how long have we known each other? He said, yeah, I know, but he didn't make the time swim, so he can't graduate. He'd been through everything else. I said, chief, he used to be a pretty good man, but now you're. You're not. I said some other words, but he was my friend. I said, tell you what I'll do. If you let me do this again, I will swim with him. I will take the last. This is the last part of the course. And so I. He said, yeah, okay, all right, all right, all right. And I said, I thought you really wore candy ass, Chief, but you made the right decision. I got in the water and swam. I don't know how far it was. I'd already made my swim. I'm good now. I'm doing a second swim with him. And it wore me out. We got about 100 meters where we needed to be. My leg cramped up. I didn't give up. And at the end he was tired. I'm trying to hold on to him. I'm trying to deal with the cramp. And all that. But we got through there together. Crossed the line together.

[Sean Ryan]

Damn.

[Major James Capers]

Oh yeah, I did that. And over the years, he still thanks me for that.

[Sean Ryan]

No, he should.

[Major James Capers]

Went to war and he survived. Didn't get a scratch on him. Tom Nicholson. Tom Nicholson.

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[Major James Capers]

I needed to carry as many men as I could and I didn't want to have him come back, so I swam with him. That's documented. But that was Jim Capers. I'm in command. I was platoon sergeant.

[Sean Ryan]

That's a hell of a leader.

[Major James Capers]

Well, did that most of my career. Got shot to hell some of the times. Did you ever get wounded?

[Sean Ryan]

No.

[Major James Capers]

Wonderful. That's great. That is really great. After all the hell you've been through, I'm glad you came home safe and you got a family and you got a great program. They tell me that you had one of the most. I've heard your program.

[Sean Ryan]

Have you heard some of the other Marines? Have you heard some of the other Marines we've had on here from Force Reconnaissance and Marcos Ock?

[Major James Capers]

I don't know that time as much. When did you come on anyway? What year?

[Sean Ryan]

The show? Yeah, this show started on Christmas Eve of December 2019.

[Major James Capers]

I had gone to California after my wife and my son passed. I moved to California and I lost touch with a lot of things. But what I've heard about your show and what I was told to listen to it, I figured you were another candy ass SEAL at first, but I found out that you weren't.

[Sean Ryan]

You see that sword right there? Yeah, that's. I interviewed a Don Graves, he was a flamethrower in Iwo Jima. And I interviewed him when he was 98 years old.

[Major James Capers]

Oh, great.

[Sean Ryan]

And he turns 100 years old in May. He's gonna be back here. I don't know if he's coming on the show or not, but he's. I'm hoping to have lunch with him at least. But he sent me that sword and took that off a. A Japanese soldier in IRO Jima.

[Major James Capers]

That's pretty good.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, he's a Marine. And then one of my best friends, Nick Kefalitis, he was a MARSOC Marine and he was my third episode. Cody Alford, he was also a MARSOC Marine. Honor man. Honor man. I think of his sniper class first. First. The youngest Marine to ever reach E8. Fought in the battle of Fallujah. He's a good friend of mine. We've had a fed. A lot of good Marines on here.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah, well, you Got a good show.

[Sean Ryan]

We've had some candy ass seals too, though.

[Major James Capers]

I've seen a few of those in my. Go ahead. Let me interrupt you. Go ahead.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, but. Well, let's talk. Let's get back to you. So finish the swim. You passed?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

You guys go to Vietnam?

[Major James Capers]

Well, the other part of it was I had to get my. One of my other guys to the finish line also so they wouldn't drop them.

[Sean Ryan]

Another one?

[Major James Capers]

No, I did that just the one time with my other sergeant. It wasn't two of them, just one.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay.

[Major James Capers]

And then we came back to Camp Lejeune. Then we started training for Vietnam. Some of the guys had to go to jump school and I had taken the swim guys there, but we had to go through the Mayan program. We went to the jungles down in Panama. We went through almost six months of training.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah. And then we. They put us on a bus at night and sent us to Norfolk.

[Sean Ryan]

How did you like the. How did you like the jungle down in Panama? I did training down there, too.

[Major James Capers]

I went through three times. I went through with the four guys that I went through when I was commanding officer with the grunts. Actually, just two times I went through and it was hard. I was the captain at the time and trying to motivate the guys and took this chicken, grabbed the chicken. I stretched him out and bit his neck. I bit his head off and I threw him out there. And the blood was all over me and all over him. The guy's going, eh, motivating. You know, we would. We had one of my trainers, we were in a training part of the program in the jungles, and the instructor said, you guys take it easy now. All of us was the recon guys. We were all in the bleachers and the instructor reached down in his boot and pulled out this snake and bit his head off and threw him out in the sand. Now I bit the chicken off, you know, but that was just show for my guys. Had a lot of new guys, and we're trying to let them know that the old man can get it done. No, you need to fear me because I will kill you. They were troops. I couldn't do that. But you're trying to scare them a little bit. Sure, you've been through that. But we went through almost six months of training. Then we finally deployed in April of 1966. And they took us to. I forget where they took us with all of our equipment, dive stuff, swim stuff. And we went over to one ship. We went over and I think we went straight into Vietnam, into Da Nang and started setting up camp and started operating and it was bloody.

[Sean Ryan]

What was the mission?

[Major James Capers]

The mission was to go behind enemy lines and kill those son of a bitches.

[Sean Ryan]

That was the mission.

[Major James Capers]

That was my mission. That's what we did.

[Sean Ryan]

Just kill as many of them as you can. Kill as many as you can.

[Major James Capers]

As you could. You. If you. It was a. If you killed them, kia, if you wounded them, you know, but we didn't really know if we wounded them or not. A lot of them were wounded and they crawled away. You see the blood trails. But if you were kia, they gave you credit for it. And we killed a lot of them.

[Sean Ryan]

Let's talk about your first mission after the camp was built. What did that entail?

[Major James Capers]

Well, actually, the camp was already built. You know, there was guys there when we came in and they had a mess all set up and all that. So we just had to. Had to get our stuff together. We went through some phases and Lawrence from a place called Fubai that was already built. And we took off in area number five because they had all these pieces of Vietnam in different areas. And I got area number five and it was loaded with a lot of NBC whatever those guys were. The Viet Cong, NVA soldiers, a lot of them were there and they'd been there for a while. Then the Vietnamese soldiers couldn't get them out. And a lot of the Vietnamese soldiers were cowards. They didn't want to fight.

[Sean Ryan]

No kidding.

[Major James Capers]

They didn't want to fight. No. They'd been there for all these years and. And the North Vietnamese come in and wiped them out. Said, now we've got to go in and fight the Vietnamese, the North Vietnamese. There was a border, 16th parallel, and the NVA came across the 16th parallel, which is set since the earlier wars in Southeast Asia. And they came across and was coming all the way down in South Vietnam and we were supposed to stop them. There were a lot of things a part of that. We had to set up ambushes. We went into their camps, we ambushed them at night. There are a lot of individual stories about that. I ran 50 missions. All of them wasn't from Fubai. I went into Caisson, I went in the Folop, I went into Da Nang, all my guys. And we lost guys along the way. But I went from staff sergeant, we lost our three officers, first three months gone. So I went from staff sergeant to second lieutenant. Never spent the day in OCS or Basic school, Officers Training.

[Sean Ryan]

How would you set up on the camps? Would you do an L ambush?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah, we did a lot of those. We set up.

[Sean Ryan]

How many guys were you with?

[Major James Capers]

How many guys?

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah. When you went on a. Let's talk about your first. Would you. Would you work primarily at daytime or at night?

[Major James Capers]

Both.

[Sean Ryan]

Both.

[Major James Capers]

Oh, yeah. You'd go out for five days or so. Mostly four days, though, because if you're working hard as we did and had the kind of combat that we had, we had guys that was injured, maybe not gunshot wounds, but it was hard, hard terrain through the jungles and trying to avoid the damn snakes. And I had one guy named Miller, he got bit twice by a snake, and I had to send him down to Da Nang for treatment. Went down there and, damn it, the guy got bit again. When he brought him back to Khe Sanh, he got hit real bad. When we had that last mission at Fulloc and all of us fought for four days, day and night, but go ahead, go ahead.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, let's. We'll get to full up. But I wanted to. I wanted. I just want to talk about your first. Your very first mission in Vietnam.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

What was. What was the briefing?

[Major James Capers]

The first mission? We made three combat dives. We came on in a ship, and they want to make sure that the ship had not been. They hadn't placed mines on the bottom of the ship. So I took down the divers, and the ship was almost 3,000ft. And we went down with scuba gear. We didn't have any trousers on. We just wore the jackets and had the oxygen and all of that. We went there, the regular scuba dive, and we had to check and see that there was no mines on the ship, on the bottom of the ship, didn't run into any, but we saw that they had something that. I don't know what the hell it was, but fire was coming out of it, and we had to avoid that. You know, the fire was coming out of the. Had it in the bottom of the ship. And we were trying to get around that because I wanted to check the whole ship. And one interesting thing that happened, we got there, had pretty air, no problem with that. And we got to the end and had these tiger sharks. See, the army was supposed to tell the Navy, hey, you're here now. Or a navy was supposed to tell the army, we're here now. And don't feed the sharks or the fish, because we're gonna be in the water. We got divers in the water.

[Sean Ryan]

Holy shit.

[Major James Capers]

Well, it didn't work that way. Somehow the tiger shark showed up. I'm finishing up my Dive now. And if you ever seen a tiger shark up close, they're voracious. And they were feeding the stuff that. The garbage that the army had dropped there at the base there. So I had one man, his buddy line. You're all in buddy lines, of course. And I had 10 men or nine men, and myself and his buddy line came loose, and he was drifting out to where the sharks were feeding. Now, as a leader, you have to make a decision. That's what leaders do. They can't sit on it. I made a decision right here, right now. I unhooked my buddy Lyon and swam out there and got him. You don't let him die. You go out there and you bring him back. Brought him back. He's alive. He passed away a few years ago, but that's what I did. No. No honors, no medals. Wasn't that you save a life? Because those sharks would have eaten them up. I've seen tiger sharks before. No honors. But the decision you make when you're a leader, you make that decision right here, right now. You don't think about it. That's what you do. And I've done that so many times.

[Sean Ryan]

How about the first mission on the ground?

[Major James Capers]

Well, we had to do the dive missions. I did. We came in, we had to clear the ship, and we. Well, we got in country. That was early on. It wasn't the first mission we went on, but we lost a man. Hold on. Marines had lost a man, and we had to go down and bring his body up. And while we were down there, we found there was over a couple hundred rounds of ammunition down there buried in the mud. So we brought the kids. Wasn't much in the kid's body. They'd eaten them up pretty good. So we brought up what was left. And then we decided to go back down and get those rounds because the NVA would take those rounds, and they could use explosives with them. They had them buried there. Over 200 rounds. So we went back down and we pulled up every one of them.

[Sean Ryan]

When you said that, the body was eaten up. Eaten up by what?

[Major James Capers]

By sharks.

[Sean Ryan]

By sharks?

[Major James Capers]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Now, we had the Song Bow river, and they had not just sharks, but they had. The Song Bo. River was a major river. The ships come down. Not ships, but boats that come down there. And the Vietnamese, they washed in the river a whole bit. There were families around there, but that wasn't my concern. We wanted to get that boy's body up, and we did it. And then we found those rounds. We had to get Those up now, then what to do with it. EOD came in and they took the rounds. They took the rounds. I didn't lose any men on that one. Didn't lose a man. But it was a hell of an experience we made. Once we got to Da Nang, we anchored on the ship and we went down and did some other water work. We did a lot of water work as recon swimmers and divers because the grunts were not divers. They had a problem, you know, they had to call us. I did a lot of that stuff. I was an officer by that time. No, I really wasn't. I was a staff sergeant. I didn't get a commission until later on. But the first ground missions we went on, we had to go up in the mountains or go in the jungles and hunt down the bad guys. And that's the first time they gave us the dogs, gave us the war dogs. And I had two of them on my first mission. And then Argo and King couldn't get along, so I kept King. King was killed later on in the fallout. Good, good dog. Tough dog. Would kill you. I had him in a big case, a big cage because you couldn't let him out of the cage. And I had a dog handling, assigned to him. And of course I can handle King. We all trained with him and he would kill an enemy soldier, grab him by the throat, groin, whatever, that he killed two in full lock before he got killed. First missions on the ground said we had recon zones and. And we dropped in by helicopter. We were supposed to parachute in, but the jungles were kind of crazy and we don't want to get separated, especially if you're going in at night. Some of those were probably done, but I didn't want to take my guys in by parachute. We had all this stuff there. But I decided to take the helicopters, put us in, and we can drop maybe 10ft on the ground, in the jungle. And we stayed out for a while. Then they'd come and pick us up by helicopter and we would have the helicopter land maybe two positions because I didn't want the NVA to know where we were. So he would drop in here, drop in there. And we were supposed to be at one place and they knew where we were coming in. We radio and said, we're going to be here, but sometime we would drop a flare over here. We did what we could so the enemy wouldn't know that we're going to be picked up here and jump in on us.

[Sean Ryan]

Diversions.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah, yeah, we did that all of our missions and never got caught. But we did a lot of those missions until the first part of it, coming in on ground. They put us in with First Force. They were already there. And we became part of First Force and we fought with them and then we did work with them. And then they sent us out and Colonel Wyler had a battalion there and he was our first co. We were training back in the States. He was CO of Recon Battalion. And so they put us in with him and they fed us and took care of things like that. And we stayed with them the whole time. First four stay with first Recon Battalion the same time, all the time.

[Sean Ryan]

When was your first firefight in Vietnam?

[Major James Capers]

Seemed like they all came together. Damn.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, let's talk about the POW rescue mission ordered by President Johnson.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah, he did order it, and the CIA handled it. We had one North Vietnam, Vietnamese was in the camp and he was a young guy and they thought he wasn't treating Americans hard enough, so they put him in the penalty chamber and he escaped. CIA picked him up and brought him to me or brought him to our headquarters from Division. And I took him in. His name was Lapp. He was 18 years old and he was a soldier. He slept in my tent with me. He didn't speak much English. Didn't speak English, but I talked to him and he had a tent, a rack in my tent with me. Good kid. Would have been an American kid, would have done well. But he was a warrior now. He'd been trained by the North Vietnamese to kill or to harm Americans or treat them bad. And he didn't. So I got him now. And he wasn't a bad kid. He would do what I asked him to do. I'd taken the child, I'd sit at night with him and I showed him a picture of my wife. So she sent me pictures and he would go. He smiled.

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[Major James Capers]

And one night I was asleep. I woke up, I knew something was wrong and looked over, and lamp was gone, you know. Oh, shit. So I grabbed my pistol, I went looking for him. I saw him, grabbed him, said, laugh. What the fuck are you doing out here? I need to go to the bathroom. I said, what? I'm gonna shoot you right now, you know. Cause I was worried that the guards in the camp, if they saw anybody moving at night that weren't supposed to be moving, they thought they were, you know, enemy soldier. Because they would try to infiltrate. Infiltrate our bases or steal stuff. You know, you couldn't tell the difference. But I grabbed lap and I brought him back to my tent and I said, lap, you know, if you got to go to the bathroom, I don't care what time it is, you wake me up, I'll take you there. Because one of these, you know, roving sentries, they'll catch you out there and they won't know the difference. But, hey, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So he got to be like a son to me. I kept him there for all of the training. We had to train for this mission. Oh, yeah, we had the shooting, the shooting and the language stuff and all that. Finally we got it done and they decided the mission was a go. And then they pulled. They said, no, we're not going. And so eventually we went and we were supposed to jump in. And we worked on jumping in. We still had our parachutes and all that stuff, which we brought with us. Then the weather got bad. No, no. We'd outcome we're not going to jump. I was going to be the jump master, of course, because I'm jump master trained and all that. Went in by helicopter and was a big operation. SEALs, they did some recon somewhere. CIA, they didn't do any water work, but we did the water work. Check the rivers and then it was time to go. So we flew in by helicopter and we landed. And the first night we stayed on a hill watching the area out there. We could see the fishermen, we could see the guys out in the rice paddies, but we stayed quiet. And then the next day, we got off the hill and move toward the camp, then avoiding anybody that might have been out there. Third day we hit the camp, killed the first two guards, and my job was to kill the sentry with my knife. That was. I'm the knife guy, you know, So I was good at that. So it had me schedule that. Killed the first two guards of the sentries with my knife, but didn't get that far because everything blew up all of a sudden. Everybody was shooting. God damn it. How am I going to find out what? Well, they told us where they thought the POWs was in the tent, the sentries here, the POWs here, and it was something over there. So my job was to kill these guys, get in there and get the POWs out. Five or six of them POWs, and I got to where I thought they should be. Nobody there, so I'm pissed. And one of my guys saw two guys coming toward the camp, and he shot those two. And then I'm pissed down. Everything's happening, and no POWs. So I said if I could blow it up. We blew the whole base up. Blew those places where they held American soldiers. Where they held them. They're not going. This camp will not hold another American Marine or soldier. We burned it. Yeah, we burned it, But I didn't get the POWs. And that was hard on us. We trained for so hard and for so long. And now we're going home without the POWs. Damn it. You know, we had a captain in charge, you know, I was lieutenant, I believe, but he was in charge of. He's dead now, but he was a coward. I hate to say it. He didn't belong in recon for what we did. He failed scuba, you know, he wasn't very good. He could run and all that, but he couldn't do the field stuff. I think he ran maybe two missions. And the POW thing, he got the Silver Star for that. He got the Silver Star? He wrote it up himself.

[Sean Ryan]

Oh, man.

[Major James Capers]

Got it through when I got hit one time. He'd never come to see me. He'd never come to see me, never asked how I was doing. He was out for himself. He wanted to be the general's aide. He didn't get that. So he ended up in force reconnaissance. And he wasn't a bad guy, but he shouldn't have been there.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, you mentioned you were good at killing people with a knife.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah, I killed a man up in. Well, one of them killed. We were at Khe Sanh, which is a bloody military base. And we had some troops up there, not many, but I Was doing a mission. Started off as a recon mission, but now we're thinking that these guys are coming into Khe Sanh to reinforce whatever they had there. And they had the base surrounded. So I'm looking to see what I can do to get some of these guys out of there. And I run up on some soldiers and I killed the first three, shot them with my M16. And then I looked over and I saw another NVA looking out that way. And I got him by his mouth and I kind of stuck my hood on him, ripped him, stuck my knife down in my conscience belt. I killed him. Blood was all over the place. He wiggled a little bit, but then he down. I took my nine millimeter. And it was two others that was moving in between the trees. And I saw the first one. I shot him. Double tap. He fell, didn't move. And I saw the other one look back and I shot him. Boom, boom. I got criticized for shooting him in the back. They're running. I killed both of them. I killed them all. I cut his throat. I killed as many as I could. Killed a lot of enemy soldiers. But it's up close, you know, we have seven or eight men and you out in the jungle, you know, most of that time. And we used to run those trails at night looking for them. We'd catch them cooking. You could smell the food. We'd throw a damn grenade in there. But unfortunately, we stopped. Might have been children in there. I had a heart. Wasn't a very big heart, but yeah, they tried to. Tried to kill me once when they I was a black Marine and they had some other stuff for me, and they put out a reward for me. This is what I was told by intel. They said that if you kill me, you would get a column and you'd get two weeks in Hanoi. Then it would come close to killing me. They couldn't do it.

[Sean Ryan]

Not a lot of Black Force Reconnaissance Marines out there, huh?

[Major James Capers]

Oh, no, not in Those days, no. 50s, 60s? Well, a lot of these guys, we all know, they come from maybe cities and didn't have swimming pools that these kids could go to. There's a lot of social stuff goes on with that. But a lot of the guys didn't try hard enough. I tried hard enough because I wanted to be there. I knew I could do it, you know?

[Sean Ryan]

So how did that make you feel, knowing that they had a bounty on your head?

[Major James Capers]

Oh, I didn't bother. Me folks been looking after me all my life, you know. They tried to kill me when I was In Hong Kong. I went there on R and R. I mean, I knew it was set up. They brought this girl to my room, she knocked on the door and I was on the phone talking to my wife. I was waiting on a call because you had another server get through to the States and all that. And I'm waiting and she come to my room. She could either capture me or kill me and nobody would really care. Another American, especially being black. But no, don't fall for that. And the time, well, there was a lot of times people tried to kill me. I mean, even in Hong Kong they tried to kill me and they tried to kill me in Hawaii. Tried to kill my wife and my son.

[Sean Ryan]

How'd they try to kill your wife and your son?

[Major James Capers]

I have a long history. I just come back from a year in, in Europe and when I was in Hamburg, they tried to kill me. They missed when they tried to kill my wife and my son. We had gotten a three year tour in Hawaii. So Dottie and I and Gary, we went to Hawaiians. Year goes by, you know, we're doing. She won first place in the hula contest and we're having a great time, you know, I'm enjoying it and met a lot of Hawaiian friends and I was out of combat because most people don't know what happened to me in Germany. But any rate, one day my general called me and he said, captain, sit down. I was the captain then. I said, yes sir. I figured, oh shit, I've done something wrong. Now General's calling me in. He said, I'm sending you home. I said, well, General, I just got here, we're enjoying this tour. He said, I know, but the plan is for. I didn't want to mention the name. To kill your wife and your son. We've confirmed it. And so to keep you out of harm's way, I'm sending you and your family home. Now you go home and you talk to your wife and you tell her that you no longer will be in Hawaii. Went home? Dottie's a trooper now. You gotta understand who Dottie is. You would have loved her because she was a real, real trooper. I said, sweetheart, something come up. She said, oh, why is it something always comes up when you want to tell me something I don't want to hear? I said, well, sweetheart, I said, I just saw the general and he told me that we're in trouble and they figured out that you and Gary are going to be shot on Saturday morning at 10 o'clock and they were supposed to be there who was they? You don't even know that. That's a long time ago. Tell me some of your stories, and then I'll tell you mine. Now, it wasn't a good idea for her to stay in Hawaii. Well, you were a seal, right?

[Sean Ryan]

That's right.

[Major James Capers]

So you're a tough guy. You can handle all this stuff. We'll get around to it. I went back and told the General that my wife don't want to go home. She won't stay here. This is the first time in a long time we've been together, and, you know, the war was kind of hard on me. He said, yeah, Captain, I knew all about that. Said, I know what happened to you in Hong Kong. And I knew about them two people you killed, by the way. I said, no, I didn't kill those people, General. He said, yes, you did. I know that I'm lying. Last to the General, but that was something that happened a long time ago. Supposed to be secret, but he's a general. He's got sources.

[Sean Ryan]

Are these the two people that you killed that were running away? Is that who he's referencing?

[Major James Capers]

No, this was in Hong Kong I'm talking about.

[Sean Ryan]

You killed two people in Hong Kong.

[Major James Capers]

That was a long time ago. I would probably talk about my wife and my son, but he told me that he knew about the people I killed in Hong Kong.

[Sean Ryan]

Who did you kill in Hong Kong?

[Major James Capers]

Some bad guys. I'll kill them both. And I kick them off and kick them in the water. Kill them all. They didn't know who they were fucking with. Yeah, kill them. They tried to kill me.

[Sean Ryan]

How did they try to kill you?

[Major James Capers]

They tried to set me up. This is Hong Kong now we're talking about. They come to my room. Well, they sent this girl to my room. Pretty girl, had a wife at home.

[Sean Ryan]

Is this Intelligence?

[Major James Capers]

Hmm?

[Sean Ryan]

Is it Intelligence Services?

[Major James Capers]

Right. The British there, they own the base. China owns it now. British was our allies, Sean. There's so many things. They diagnosed me with ptsd, and they also declared me insane. I'm an old guy now, and I have trouble dealing with some of these issues. And I know who you are and what you've done, and I appreciate it, and I'm doing the best I can to do this piece with you, but a lot of it, you know, was not known through the channels. And when I was in Hong Kong, I was on R and R, but they tried to kill me. If they left me alone, I wouldn't have bothered them, but they didn't leave me alone, and I Had to realize who they were messing with. So I did kill them. And I killed a lot more. Yeah, unless what you want to talk about. But a lot of this stuff, you know, it runs together. The timing that was. I'm 87 years old. I'm going to be 88 this year. I spent 14 years overseas. I fought two wars. I had 19 holes that I bled from. Both my legs have been broken. Right now I got six pieces of metal in my body. Two in my thighs and down in my lower legs were broken. I got a piece of metal in my left leg. My right leg is shorter than my left leg. I got scars all over me. I can't hardly walk. That's why I didn't stand when you come in. No disrespect.

[Sean Ryan]

I didn't take any. Well, let's move into. There was a downed B52. Correct. That supposedly had a nuclear bomb.

[Major James Capers]

B57.

[Sean Ryan]

B57. Excuse me.

[Major James Capers]

It crashed in the mountains and I was told, I know it was nuclear equipped. In other words, you could carry a nuclear bomb on it. And I didn't know if they had a bomb on it or not. But we were supposed to parachute in, left that alone. Didn't want to drop into an area like that. I've been in jumps where the area was smoked. So we landed on top of the mountain helicopter. We dropped in about 10ft. We dropped in. It was a heavy landing. We had our stuff with us and we went down to the crash and wasn't much there. The Vietnamese had already been there by the time we got there. We got in there at first, might have had a chance seeing what's on this thing. But we found some goggles and we knew that somebody had had this aircraft. We brought some of the oxygen bottles back. I didn't find any bodies. We did look, but the story is we knew that there's no point in looking any further because there's nobody here. The planes crash and hit the mountain and the tail was separated from the body. And so I decided, okay, we need to go home now. This enemy territory and team broad minded. So we started hiding, went down the mountain and started home. But it started to rain and I told him that I needed an extraction because we could see tracks on around. I figured that some bad guys are out there. So I called for an extraction and they called back and says, no, we can't come and get you because it's raining and the choppers can't fly. I said, well, I'll give you a day, I'll Stay here for a day, roam around, and then I either gotta stay here until you come get me or I gotta come home. And after all of that I decided we're going home. And I got my team together and little huddle and I. Droski was a very tall point man still around today. I said, deroski, no. I said, point man, take us home. And for the next five days we walked through enemy territory, went through two minefields, swam a river, wasn't captured, and we got hit the last part of it. They opened fire, but that was all right, not going to bother us because the Marines were coming from the other direction to pick us up. So we probably killed a bunch of them. But that didn't bother me because they weren't going to really attack us. And the truck showed up and picked us up and went home. And the general said, or the colonel said, why don't you get something to eat? I wasn't hungry, couldn't eat. I let my troops go to the mess hall. Then I had to go down to colonel's office to see the CIA guy and the debriefing, sure, you've been in a lot of those. But they griefed me and I told them what I knew. I didn't find any bodies on the aircraft. And then the colonel said, why don't you go and take a nap? I was tired. I said, I don't know if I can sleep. I've been awake for four days, almost five days. I'm laying down and my eyes had closed and I couldn't get my eyes open. I had mud and dirt cake. Everything was in my eyes. I was laying there and I couldn't get my eyes open. I was moving my head. I was trying to get. And I had to, had to do this. My arms were so tired I couldn't hardly reach my face. It was a hard physical trip for us. And finally I got my eyes open. Then this young kid was standing there. He come in, said, lieutenant, I got your mail for you. No, the staff sergeant said, I got your mail for you. First different voice I've heard because I knew my guys voices and he was different and he shouldn't have been in my tent because everybody knows you don't do that. But I had to learn to be a human being again. I'd been in the jungle for so long, I was almost turning into that person. I could eat anything, fight anything, sleep in the water. Those type of things that I had experienced as I was making this, you know, from a peacetime Marine and Being totally involved in this jungle thing.

[Sean Ryan]

Did you feel more at home in the jungle?

[Major James Capers]

I did then.

[Sean Ryan]

You did?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah. When my time come to go out, I had about two and a half days in the rear. You get some regular child, see the doc and all that. But I had a doc with me. It was uncomfortable. I felt better. When I'm out there at watch. When I got my knife, I got my pistol. I got my rifle at the ready. And I knew I can kill anything. I wasn't afraid. I had gotten past that stage. I was only afraid for my men.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, Major, let's take a quick break and then when we come back, we'll just. We'll pick up right here. All right? Do you want a water or anything?

[Major James Capers]

No.

[Sean Ryan]

You okay?

[Major James Capers]

How's it going, dad? No, I'm all right.

[Sean Ryan]

All right.

[Major James Capers]

Where have I been? I guess I took me back to Vietnam, huh? Damn.

[Unknown]

Took a little bit of trip there, huh?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah, I'm all right.

[Sean Ryan]

All good?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay.

[Major James Capers]

I'm all right.

[Unknown]

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[Sean Ryan]

We'll see you in the newsletter.

[Unknown]

I'd like to invite you to gain access to an exclusive experience on Vigilance Elite. Patreon. Our patrons are the driving force behind the success of this show, and their support allows us to keep doing what we do. Depending on the tier you choose, you'll get access to benefits like behind the scenes footage before each interview, early access to episodes, end of the month live zoom calls with me, exclusive merch and more. Join us and become a patron starting at just $5 a month by visiting patreon.com vigilance elite. That's patreon.com vigilance elite.

[Sean Ryan]

All right, Major, you ready to kick it off again?

[Major James Capers]

We are a TV audience. I wear these boots because I've got meld in my legs and it helps me out with stability.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, it's pretty sharp looking kicks.

[Major James Capers]

Thank you. You're welcome.

[Sean Ryan]

But so we're getting ready to get into Fu Loc.

[Major James Capers]

Okay.

[Sean Ryan]

But before we do, we didn't cover the the battlefield commission from sergeant to second lieutenant. So I wanted to ask you how that went.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah, well, before Vietnam, I'd applied for a commission. They had a program that you could apply for, and you'd go to OCS and basic school. You come out. And also I applied for that, but I passed all of the tests. But they sent me a letter, said, considered but not selected. So I didn't get to go. The next year, my officers said, try again. So I did again, and I didn't get selected. It was hard on African American Marines during that time. We had very few officers in the Marine Corps. So they had the Enlisted Commissioning Program. So I tried out, but I didn't make it. But then I guess later on when they considered me for a battlefield commission, I mean, they just gave it to me. All the officers were dead, so they gave me the commission. I had never gone to OCS or basic school. I had a high school education. I'd had some college, but I was proud of that for my family. Nobody in my family had ever graduated high school. And so this was good for them. Proved that we could be good citizens. My parents insisted on that, and you had to behave yourself. And I did all those things. Then after I joined the Marines, like I mentioned, I did good. And then they decided to commission me. Took five minutes, Colonel Comey in his office, and I signed the documents, raised my right hand and come out as second lieutenant.

[Sean Ryan]

You know, it sounds like the bureaucrats maybe got in the way of your advancement, but the men that you're actually fighting with on the ground had a tremendous amount of respect for you. Is that fair to say?

[Major James Capers]

Most of them. I can't say all of them did because the commanding officer of my unit, when they were looking at this Medal of Honor for me, he said he'd rather die and go to hell before I would get the Medal of Honor.

[Sean Ryan]

Why is that?

[Major James Capers]

He was a racist. He's gone. He was within my unit. He was the captain in the unit. But he went to the POW camp with us. Didn't fight. He was a coward. Failed scuba school. I never saw him make a parachute jump. I don't even know whether he even went to jump school or not, because I came in as a sergeant, then I made staff sergeant there, then I made officer there. But Ken Jordan was his name. And his goal was to be the general's aide. No.

[Sean Ryan]

You talked about him earlier. You talked about him earlier.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah. Wasn't a good man, and he didn't. Didn't like me. And, you know, I went through that as a NCO and as an officer, but, you know, I was okay with it because I was serving the Marine Corps, and I figured, I'm good enough to get through. I'm Good enough to do a good job. I didn't make a lot of rank, you know, I made it up to major. I probably could have gone further, but I chose to retire. Almost 23 years. I was up for lieutenant colonel, which I'm sure I would have made because of my background, my war background and other stuff I'd done. But when I retired, I bought a home in Jacksonville. And my son was doing okay, my wife was doing all right. But I think my son had a big part of it too. You know, I couldn't find a school for him and those types of things. And of course, he's blind, special needs. And so I had to deal with that. And the general told me that he was going to recommend me for lieutenant colonel, which had been pretty good for me. I come in as a snuffy. And then I come home from work one day. This is before I retired. And my wife. Daddy was crying. Oh, man. Said, what's up? What's up, sweetheart? She said, gary got assaulted in school. My son was blind, special needs. And the demons came home. So I had weapons in my trunk of my car. I was authorized to do that. So I said, well, this isn't going to work. I went down to the school. And driving down to the school, there was a golf course on the left and some housing on the right. I was driving down, I hit a light. And I waited and waited. And the angry, more angry I got. I'm gonna settle this. You're not gonna assault my child. Demons that come home shouldn't have thought better. But that light never changed. I want didn't change. So I turned around and come back home. God once again protected me. They have no idea what I have done had. I got there and some kids, parents were there. But anyway, God saved me again. And Gary was okay. I retired. The general came there that day. He tried to talk me out of it, but I think it was time. I was hurting all over. And I was CO of a Force Recon company. Wow. And had a big retirement for me on the parade field. Everybody come to see me. The Navy come to see me. And everybody was there. And I was a major coming from a corn field and cotton fields. Dottie was there. Gary was not there. But the idea that all these people come to see me retire. Good friends I had known since I was a teenager. They gave me a couple medals, I don't know which one they gave me at that time. And had. The band was there and they played the music and the marching band was there. And the general Gave me a medal, and everybody applauded that Major Capers is going home now. The legendary Major Capers, who gave it all. Then I brought up my xo, young man, he's gone now. He made major general, but he's dead now. I introduced him as my relief. And then I waited around. I couldn't leave the battlefield or not the battlefield, but the parade field, because I want to see all my guys. I told Dottie, I said, well, you know, maybe somebody else will come. The general had gone, the admiral had gone, and I was waiting for somebody to come up. One of my troops that I want to say goodbye to. Nobody showed. So Dottie said, you know, sweetheart, maybe it's time for us to go home. I said, well, let's wait another minute or two. And nobody else. I said, okay. She drove me home and took off my uniform, and I never put it back on again. I have it in a sea bag somewhere on my shed. But those are the memories from beginning as a teenager, from the cotton fields to being awarded, you know, on a parade field with hundreds, probably thousands, because the, you know, the divisions had their bands and said goodbye to me.

[Sean Ryan]

Let's go back to Folac.

[Major James Capers]

Foloc, yeah. All right. Not a pleasant thing to do, but let's go back to Foloch.

[Sean Ryan]

You ready for that?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

What was going on there? What was the mission?

[Major James Capers]

You know, that sort of confusion, Sean, because nobody really figured it out, except that was my last mission.

[Sean Ryan]

That was the last one.

[Major James Capers]

Last mission.

[Sean Ryan]

How much time had you spent in Vietnam until then?

[Major James Capers]

9 months, 10 months? Almost a year. But we did a lot of work with the Navy, you know, doing the ship bottom searches and the diving and the swimming and all that. One night I made a swim of 1500 meters in enemy territory to do some recon on the beaches and swam back 1500 meters. But Phu Loc was a different situation. I was asked to go in there, and the Vietnamese had a base on the reverse side of Long Top Hill. And okay, my last mission, because my time was up pretty much, and I was going to use the last month. I guess it was doing some work for somebody, helping the new guys coming in. But I wasn't commanding officer of the unit. I was a platoon commander as a lieutenant. But I commanded most of the unit because I been around for a while and I was a little older. You know, some of the young officers that would come in wasn't qualified. They wanted the experience of being there. But, you know, that's not a place you go to get experience in the areas that we were in. But in full lock, I got to fulloc and damn. Going into Phu Loc, we stopped off at a place where we had some guys that lived in the villages with the South Vietnamese. And they would be in the camps with him and they spoke Vietnamese and they would help the Vietnamese fight against the North Vietnamese. Forget what they call those guys, but they were good. So I joined up with them and. Well, actually I didn't get up there first. I went into one place and we got shot out. I mean, just blessed all over the place. I chopper got hit, so we pulled out of there. We didn't land. I don't know how the hell they knew we were there. Coming in that place, landing zone, and the next one we got to, we weren't going to quit. We were going in there and they had these pieces of, had grenades on long poles that was set up with wire around them. And they had these grenades with the. If you land in that area, the chopper would pull little pins on the grenades and they would blow from each side.

[Sean Ryan]

So it was booby trapped, the whole landing zone.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah. So figured that out. We got the hell out of there and we.

[Sean Ryan]

How did you guys see that in a helicopter?

[Major James Capers]

Training, I guess. We spent so much time in the damn jungles and we saw it and then Chapo went up. He just kept going up. Then all of a sudden he just dropped down. Auto rotation, they called it. And he just turned it loose, come on down like that, then restarted about 200ft off the ground. Differently from where we were with his booby traps. And we got to where we needed to be and we started operating. We're angry. This is supposed to be our last mission. Now I'm taking whatever I have left. Go home. But most of them are gone. It was a hard, hard tour. I was enlisted man. Now I'm in command. Jordan, who was commander first. He went, he got trained, he got out of there. So Lieutenant Capers now gets the hard duties of taking the guys with me. I left one man back because he had a hernia, but he didn't want to stay back. He came to my tent and said, lieutenant, I gotta go. You know, you can't leave me behind. I said, no, Ski, you know, Deroski was his name. Said, you've done a good job. You've been with me all the way. You fought a good war and you go home now and you have a happy life. Well, he was the only survivor that didn't get killed. And I loved him. He's still alive.

[Sean Ryan]

You guys keep in touch?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah, still alive. I talked to him the other day. Came to my wife's funeral, my son's funeral. They were both buried together, wife and son. But Skee was there, he was always there. And I was. I got hospitalized a couple of years ago in Wilmington and woke up one morning and guess who was standing there? Taroski. Hey, sir, I'm here. He was my point man. Point man, Loyal. It broke my heart to leave him behind in full lock. But I made the right decision because the guy that took over, a guy named. All right, yeah, okay, Nick the Greek. I replaced Drosky with Nick the Great and I gave him M60 machine gun. And it got down to the fact that when we used that M60, he blew up everything. He got, lost a leg. Nick the Great dead big man, had 19 inch arms. And he used that M60 like it was nothing. Tough kid. But since the Rosky wasn't there, he came to me and he said, lieutenant, let me. Lemme point man. I can do it. I said, you know Nick, tough job, you know, I'm gonna be up front. He said, yeah, but I can cover you. Somewhere along the line, I let Nick be the point man with the M60s. And leading into that, a lot of things of course happened leading into that conversation with Nick. A war Dog King was killed.

[Sean Ryan]

How was your war Dog King killed? How was the War Dog King killed?

[Major James Capers]

He was killed when explosions went off as one of them thinks that you. That he killed two enemy soldiers. He's a big dog, trained to kill. We had to keep him in a cage. Only I and the dog handler could hold on, could hold him. And Miller got hit. Everybody was wounded, lost a leg.

[Sean Ryan]

And is this food lock?

[Major James Capers]

Food lock.

[Sean Ryan]

What happened first? What happened first? There sounds like there were three really bad firefights where he lost one Marine. Is that correct?

[Major James Capers]

We lost a Marine, didn't lose a man in full lock? No, no, everybody survived except the dog. But we had other missions where we lost somebody.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay?

[Major James Capers]

All of us experienced that. All the platoons and teams. We killed a bunch of people and some of ours was wounded. Young Stanlock, he was my point man with Jarofsky, but he got shot and killed at Khe Sanh.

[Sean Ryan]

Your team was ambushed in Fula, correct?

[Major James Capers]

Well, he was with another team.

[Unknown]

And.

[Major James Capers]

They went out on a mission and they got hit. And grenade came in, what I'm told grenade came in and he rolled on it and the grenade blew him up. Everybody was wounded on that mission, but he was kia, Young guy. I went to see his mother after the war. Of course, I wrote the usual letters, you know. Today your son was killed. I'm sorry. And this and that. That was hard to do. I want to see his mother, not apologize to her. She accepted. It was okay. Then a few years later, his brother called me. But his brother, his mother and his brother had divorced and he was raised by his father. And so he wasn't there. But he did call me some years later to thank me, you know, and he never come to see me. But I did go see Scanner's mother. He was hit bad. And at the time, what I was told, I was not in that area, that he jumped on a grenade. So I put him in for the marijuana. That was the right thing to do. And Jordan refused to send it forward. The kid's dead. And he saved a lot of lives. Those M26s that we carried, you know, would kill at least two or three people. But he jumped. And we knew his sternum was crushed, so we knew that this grenade was under him. So now, that wasn't that fool lock that was at Caisson you were talking about? Full lock, right?

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah.

[Major James Capers]

A lot of firefights. Boy, that's a long part there. How do I simplify it?

[Sean Ryan]

You don't have to simplify it.

[Major James Capers]

Thank you. After the POW raid, I went to Hong Kong for four days. They tried to kill my ass in Hong Kong.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, you had mentioned that.

[Major James Capers]

So I come back.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you know who tried to kill.

[Major James Capers]

You in Hong Kong? Thugs. You know, they knew that American Marines and soldiers was coming there for P. Forgot what the hell it was called now. R and R. R and R. Yeah, and they had gang. You know, gang things set up. You know, we'd go to the clubs and sometime you find a dead Marine. And the MPs, which is run by the British, would look into it. But we had a water fight. We were still fighting in Vietnam. And I come back and I heard Scanlan was killed. Yeah. Yeah. We had breakfast one morning. The colonel told me. He asked me had I heard about Khe Sanh. No. The sergeant major asked me had I heard about Caisson. I said, no, Sergeant Major. He said, we had a lot of trouble up there. And he said Scanlon was killed. And everybody knew. I love Scanlon. He was like a son to me. Hard, freckled face, red hair, always smiling. And he was. After the war, he was coming to live with me for a while. So it was kind of personal when Scanlan got killed. Now they Sended me to Khe Sanh. I got there and I'm going back to Khe Sanh, I guess it is, and ran some long range missions, I mean, and walking. And we came home with A python snake, 20 foot long, weighed almost 200 pounds. We put him in a big sack, brought him back, and we didn't cross the river with him because it was too heavy. So we left him on the side of the river and we swam across the river and went up the mountain where our base was. We left the snake there. We got back and I told the pilots about the snake we had caught. He said, ah, you ain't no snake that long. I said, well, give us a ride with your helicopter. We'll go down and get him. So we rode down with the helicopter and one of my swimmers jumped out. He landed on a big rock there. Swimmers jumped out, went on and got the snake. He was loose. And we brought him back to the base. And some of this stuff you've already read, I'm sure, but you've done your homework. But we put the snake in an excavation. And he was lying there and I think Sergeant Yerman said, well, we gotta get him something to eat. So he drove down to town and come back with a damn duck. And he tied the duck one leg and put the duck in the hole there with the snake. Snake's lying in there, hadn't really moved. Duck's in there quacking. I said, you know, that duck looks tight, looks tough. He's gonna kick the ass out of that snake in there. So everybody's laughing in the mall. That's be nut with feathers in it. And the snake gonna eat that duck. So everybody's coming by to betting, you know, troops bet on any damn thing. You know who's gonna win this fight. The next day we look in this hole and the snake was dead as a doornail. No shit laying out and the duck is crooking perkin around. Yeah, the ducks pecked that snake to death. And everybody was laughing. And they believed it for a while that the duck had pecked the snake. And it was unbelievable story, but it was fun. And we took the snake and we gave him to the Montagnards, which is the Montagnard tribe used to help us with intel in the mountains. There an older tribe called the Montagnards. And for them helping us, I gave them some of the meat from a snake. And we gave them a skin, some of them, and we cut the skin off and they made belts. And some of the troops made Belts out of the skin from the snake. But they named him Goma Powell, which a popular TV program during that period of time, so. So they named the snake Gorma Powell. So they had fun with that name and the death of the snake. Okay, gang, time to go back killing people. Kill them all this time. But we had the 324th B division that had come across the 16th parallel and they were going south. They're going to chase the Americans out. But you know, Sean, you don't chase Marines out of anything. It just don't happen that way. Even Iwo Jima and Okinawa, all those places that we fought in, and we always had corpsman with us. There's some wonderful stories we had with the corpsman lost. I got a seal, Corpsman, Doc Burwell. He's still alive. He was a corpsman. Good man, tough guy. And he used to hold a deep sea diving record, if you ever heard of Doc Burwell. But he served with us. Well, good man, tough guy. I don't want to get you out of your sequence there, but we were talking about. It's good.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, we're talking about food lock.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah, Fuloc. That was my last mission. And we got into. We were supposed to destroy the base camp. The NVA had set up a base camp on the reverse side of the mountain. So I had to get in there, see how I can blow the hell out of that base camp. I run in some of the guards along the way and kill them. Finally saw, got to the top.

[Sean Ryan]

How did you kill him? Was it quiet? Were you in a firefight?

[Major James Capers]

It was a firefight.

[Sean Ryan]

It was a firefight.

[Major James Capers]

All firefights, you know, trying to get in there. We didn't go in by helicopter. We walked in, fought our way in because I had to see what's on the other side of that mountain. And I did blow it. I called in the Phantoms and they came in and blew the hell out of it. And they came out wiggling their wings. They'd come in again, just blew the hell out of it. Dropping all kinds of ammunition. And then the helicopters helped us out, attack helicopters. We accomplished the mission. That base didn't operate anymore. Team Broadminded. We had to fight our way there. And no, that wasn't full lock. That was another mission, but full lock. We all got wounded. We actually walked in. We couldn't get the flight in because like I said, they had booby traps and all that. So we actually walked in and we linked up with a group that lived with them and a Group of marines that lived with them.

[Sean Ryan]

No kidding.

[Major James Capers]

And we stayed with them for the evening. Then we left that night and we walked in enemy territory. We're deadly, you know, we went around the rice paddies and we went to. Got to a graveyard and a lot of firing was going on. Everybody was shooting with. You could see the traces, traces going. So I didn't want to walk into that. So I put my guys in a graveyard, had cement things there. So we stayed there and watched the battle. Said, no, we're not going to walk into that. So we spent the night there, a good bit of the night. And then when I thought I could get in to where I needed to go, I took off. About maybe 4 of the boy team broadmonted and our dog, we took off. And looking back on it, we linked up with some of the marines that was already out there, linked up with them, and they'd had a hard time. And they were going to have a hard time. I think it was 13 or something like that, but they had a hard time. And we'd just come in there and we started to, you know, we got into firefights. I think we had seven damn firefights in those four days.

[Sean Ryan]

Jeez.

[Major James Capers]

Bloody. We run our ammunition the second day, and chopper came in and brought some ammunition and grenades to us on the last day. I think I threw 19 grenades. They hit us hard. We hit them hard. My dog killed some. I know how many I killed. You can't count it up. But they used to want to know how many wias that you killed. And nobody thought about that. You know, you're on full automatic. You got your M60, you got the M79. Everything you got, you're putting it out there because if you didn't, you could get overrun. But there was no chance. They overrun us. We were all wounded and we had killed most of them. And last decision time, what do I do now? I thought, well, we knew that the choppers or the phantoms that blew up on the other side, they'd taken care of that on the side. I don't know that I really want to do that. Because they might reinforcements from somewhere. This is their damn country. And they weren't very loyal. We're loyal. We'll fight with the army, we'll fight with the Navy, but we're not going to fight with the Vietnamese because we don't trust them, Number one never did. But explosions was going off and I started firing and kept firing. I kept throwing hand grenades and sometimes they would hit a tree or something like that and bounce back on the ground. And you'd have to make sure that if that thing went off you were covered. So we finally had to make a decision to get out of there. And both my legs were broken, I was bleeding all over the place. We weren't going to quit, we weren't going to give up, weren't going to be captured. So we finally got down to the helicopter landed. It was two of them. One was circulating around and the other one landed. I think you know that story, but I'll tell it for your audience. The helicopter landed and I brought all my men in and I was being helped by one of the troops. My dog's body. Brought the dog's body in. King and then had a problem getting Everybody on that 34H34 small helicopter got all the bodies on, King's body on. But it was. I had nine men and a dog and the chopper. It was too light of a chopper to get me on board. So I told the crew chief, get my men out of here, I'll make it fun way. He said, no, come on board. He grabbed me and there was noises going on. He grabbed me by my harness, pulled me on the helicopter and the helicopter went up about 10ft and crashed. Bam. I fell off, bleeding all over the place. But I could stand. I had broken a leg that was standing. But this is battle, your personal injuries don't count. He grabbed me again, pulled me on board. Now I don't know, my corpsman had given me morphine, so I don't know if he went up another time or if we just went out of there. But he did take off, turned around and it kept going. And one of the co pilot was shot and the pilot started going home and it started to rain lightning and the Chapo was wobbling a little bit. But we're talking about God up in Khe Sanh. I was on my knees one night after a young child was injured in one of them firefights at Khe Sanh. So I picked the child up and run toward the aid station. Time I got there, the child had died in my arms. And I laid the child down when her arms was hold on to my arms. I couldn't hardly lay her down. But I got laid her down, she was dead. I went back to where I needed to be and I saw my corpsman. I said, doc, come here. He said, yes sir. I said, I'm gonna need you now. I figured they'd be coming back in. We had this barbed wire, this couple of Caissons, barbed wire. And we had it because they would come in at night, they'd throw grenades through that barbed wire. And so I told the corpsman, you stay with me. And the corpsman said, yes, sir. They came around and stood by my right. I was standing. And he said, lieutenant, I'm a little tired, you know. I said, can I sit for a minute? I said, yeah, Doc, we got a few minutes. And then we heard those bugles. America and you die. And all this other foolishness. Doc sat down. I said, doc, they're coming now. Doc fell over dead, down on his post.

[Sean Ryan]

Damn.

[Major James Capers]

That's when I said, damn. He didn't tell me he was wounded. A hole in his chest. I didn't see it. Should have, but said, doc, I called him over. I didn't know he'd been wounded, but it's my fault. And over the years, I grieved about that. Still grieve about it. The boy sat down there and said, I'm just a little tired, sir. I'll be okay, damn it. I'll be okay. Brave. Where you get such men from? Where do we get them from? A young sailor. I never knew his name. At least I don't remember his name. Sat down and when I said, it's time to fight, he was gone. He would have fought. He had fought. I always thought about that. What he might have been, what he might become. He might have cured cancer. He might have done something for all of us. But then, for me, the demons come home. Now you gotta deal with Jim Capers, the warrior. I looked up in the sky that night and I prayed to God. Said, God, I need help tonight. I need help. That little girl I tried to save was gone. The warrior corpsman was gone. And I was on my knees. I'm looking up in the sky, saying, God, I need you. Please help me. Praying, God didn't say, it's going to be okay, son. But when I needed it, God saved my life at another part, which I'll tell you later on, which confirms my belief in God. I wouldn't be here today if God hadn't answered my prayer. He didn't answer it when I was on my knees praying. But God answers prayers when he needs to answer. He'll talk to you then. He doesn't do things when you want them done. He does things when he wants them done. I've been through the God thing. Trust me, I know what God is. And I'll see him again. I'll see my wife and my son. I believe that. I'LL see him again. May not be a day tomorrow. Hell, you may jump up and pull a hand grenade.

[Sean Ryan]

I'm all out of hand grenades.

[Major James Capers]

It wouldn't go off. Go off. God's got me. Kept me alive all this time. This summer I'll be 88 years old.

[Sean Ryan]

Where did God show up? Was it in full lock? Where did God show up?

[Major James Capers]

God showed up in Oola. He always showed up when he went to show up. Maybe not for me, but other men that would have died. And artillery came in that I didn't know was coming. But God showed up. When I was coming out of full ark, when the chopper was flying us back to Amed, it was raining. It was a rough night. We'd been out there and it started to go down. I was sitting in the doorway and my wounded guys were holding on to me. And the guys in the background were lying down. They were crying and, you know, moaning because they had been wounded pretty seriously. You know, Nick lost a leg and the whole bit. And I'm standing in the chopper was flying in and it started going down. I don't know if it had been out of fuel. It was going down. It was kind of a nasty night. It was at night and all of a sudden the hand of God reached out and snapped. It caught that helicopter and kept it flying. Told I had no fuel and not enough fuel. But when I asked God, God said, now I'll show you that I am God. I'll give you my hand. And he kept the helicopter flying. Everybody on that helicopter lived. Those are stories that are real because all the men on board saw the same thing. We were going down high in the hell. There's a helicopter going down. All of a sudden God grabbed it and kept it flying. Then when they took it to the maintenance folks, they said they had no gas. They said it shouldn't have flown. And I'm told they took it to someplace it never flown again. God can do amazing things. That particular night when we were crashing and all those lives would have been lost and I would not have been a 77 year old man about to turn 88. 78. 88, 87. I'm 87 now. I'll turn 88 this year. What a blessing. What a blessing. So I know about God. I also prayed when my son was dying in the hospital. I was standing by his side and he closed his eyes. I couldn't save him. I prayed to God. I wanted a miracle when he died in my arms. But here's what I had to finally see. That My son is not blind. God has him now. He's in the bosom of God. My wife does not have cancer. Now God has healed both of them. They're happy. They're sitting at the right hand of God, and they're waiting on me. And I don't know if God will allow a guy like me who hadn't been a nice guy. But I want to believe that he'll forgive me.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, I think he must feel pretty fondly of you if you saved that helicopter.

[Major James Capers]

He didn't just save the helicopter. He saved all of us. There were human beings on the helicopter. I don't know. They had prayed like I prayed. But when I was in Khe Sanh, I asked God to, you know, show me a miracle. Hit me with a bolt of lightning, but he didn't. But when that chopper was going down, like I said, God reached out with his mighty hand and kept it flying in spite of the rain and light and everything else was going on. I knew it was going down because I saw the blood all over the place. It's full of blood. Has everybody been wounded?

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, it doesn't sound like the helicopter should have even been able to take off, because the first time it couldn't.

[Major James Capers]

You're right. They took it out of service, and they said it shouldn't have been flown that night. I don't know. But I can only say that God saved us when we needed to be saved. I've had other cases. When I prayed, I prayed for my son. It didn't work. But then God has him now. And my wife died of cancer after 50 years of marriage. I'll see her again.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you think about dying?

[Major James Capers]

Do I think about dying? No, not really. Cause I got friends like you to keep me going. No, I'm all right. I have serious ptsd, so they tell me. And I have nightmares. The battlefields come back to me. I live alone in my home, but I have friends that come to see me. The government provides a nurse to see me, and old friends come over and help me because I can't get around very well anymore. I don't drive, and no, I've had problems, obviously. Sleeping. The demons comes home. And I don't know if you know what PTSD is, but I'm not a doctor. But I know that I've had trouble with. Takes a lot of people to give me a hand these days. I still got a piece of wire in this leg and metal in my lower legs and in my thighs. I had a heart attack. I've had surgery and, you know, the doctor's doing what they can to keep an older guy alive. They give me Purple Hearts and now I understand they're trying to give me the Melijuana. Won't bring my men back.

[Sean Ryan]

You got a Silver Star for Boola?

[Major James Capers]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Sounds like it's good possibility it's gonna get upgraded to Medal of Honor.

[Major James Capers]

What'd you say?

[Sean Ryan]

It sounds like there's a good possibility that's gonna get upgraded to the Medal of Honor.

[Major James Capers]

Well, that's what they're telling me. You know, there's A list of 47 senators and congressmen who sent a letter to the President asking him to give me the Medal of Honor. Now, he's a busy man, President, so I don't know whether he'll get around to that or even if he wants to get around to it. I got nominated in 67. When my general come to see me after full lock and kissed me on the head, forehead. And there were folks who. I was full of morphine. I don't really know what happened there, but what folks told me was that he had planned to give me the Medal of Honor or recommend me. Congress gives that or the President gives that. He got killed in a helicopter crash. So I left and went home and did the family thing and didn't think about it much until the young general named General James Williams. He used to be one of my platoon sergeants, platoon commanders, rather. He was now a two star general. And he'd heard all these stories from at my reunions. Talked to guys that said, well, Major Capers did this. Major Capers did that. Wasn't sympathy, but they were there. And Williams, as he come through, I'm a young man, he decided to call me back to duty and that's what he did. And he recommended me.

[Sean Ryan]

How many of those men that were on that helicopter with you are still alive today?

[Major James Capers]

One man that I know of, his name was Henry Stanton. Huge young man, black kid. He was my M79 man. He run out of ammunition when an explosion hit me and hit him. And I would lean up, back against a tree or something. And I reached around, I was holding Stanton and I reached around to take the dog tags off of another ring that I was holding. Well, a Stanton I was holding. Yeah, was holding a Stanton. I reached around to take his dog tags off and he looked up to me and he said, lieutenant, I don't think we're gonna make it this time. You know, he'd been hit and lost a kidney and he'd blood all over the place. He's bleeding out of his mouth, something out of his nose. Said, no, we're going to make it. You hold on, son. You hold on. One of the bravest things I ever heard, he said, hand me a rifle. I can still fight. After all this explosion and whatever, said, just hand me a rifle, sir. I can still fight. That's a man. That's a patriot. That's a Marine. I can still fight and say, I'm gonna get you out of here, son. And everything just, you know, went to hell. But he lives. He's still alive.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you keep in touch with him?

[Major James Capers]

Hmm?

[Sean Ryan]

Do you keep in touch with him?

[Major James Capers]

Mm. I called him and told him that looked like they want to give me the Medal of Honor. He said, oh, hell, sir, they should have done that 50 years ago. I said, I understand, but this is what they're telling me now. And I got sent a letter that had all the. If you saw that or not, the signatures, all the senators and congressmen. I didn't know most of those guys, but Bull and the team, they've been pulling the strings. General Williams and all of the ones. I'm proud. I never thought about the Malawana. I thought about my troops. When they gave me a Silver Star, I figured, oh, gee, that's somebody's pulling strings. I never thought I did anything. I did my job. Like I did when that shark was going to eat the hell out of one of my team members. That's what you do, sure. You've done it, or you're trained to do it. Jaworski's still alive, but he wasn't on the flock mission. He had a hernia and I sent him back to the aid station. He pissed about. He wanted to go. I put Nick in Skee's place. Nick lost a leg. Nick was a big man. 19 inch arms, 50 inch chest. He carried that M60 like nothing. When he got hit, I heard him screaming. Part of my language, you MF's, I'm gonna. You know. He was just firing with his M, which is a large weapon, but they got hit. And he kept fighting. Stanton kept fighting. They all kept fighting. There was no quitting team broadminded, Just my dog. Miller is gone now. Crapo is gone now. You know, Sergeant Yerman is gone now. And a few years ago, they put me in a hospital. Didn't look good for me, but God knows I don't worry about it.

[Sean Ryan]

You know, after. After Vietnam, you profess you. You were involved with the CIA in the Cold War.

[Major James Capers]

Well, there was Nothing to that.

[Sean Ryan]

No.

[Major James Capers]

No, not really.

[Sean Ryan]

What were you doing?

[Major James Capers]

They tried to get me on full time. I had done this stuff in Vietnam. I did the CIA thing there in Vietnam. And I'd help them when I was. This is not Vietnam, but when I was sealed with force recon, some of the guys that were about to deploy, I'd bring them down to Camp Lejeune so they could go to the jump master's course, or rappelling course, whatever it was. I do that for them. And of course, in Vietnam, I did that thing in Europe. But they're a good group. There were a lot of young guys. I did the FBI stuff. FBI gave me two Thompson assault machine guns when I retired. You know, I got a young man now, he retired, two star in the CIA. I trained a lot of those guys. But as far as operating, my operating operations were not very good. And that's not what I'm just supposed to say. There's a lot of stuff that I was involved in. Yeah. And you sure, you probably have done the same things. Not me, because of what I look like, number one. And the way they're set up to operate now, the FBI. I tried to help out there. I put them through a jump program and Jump Master program and martial arts. I used to run the martial arts program for a long time for different folks that want to. How to kill people.

[Sean Ryan]

What did it feel like when you got inducted into the U.S. special Operations hall of Honor?

[Major James Capers]

I didn't know about it.

[Sean Ryan]

You didn't know about it?

[Major James Capers]

No. I had lost my wife, my son. I was living in California. And the general called me, forget his name now, and told me they were coming up with a program and they were looking for names to submit. And he said, everybody kind of feel like maybe you would be the first one. And I said, well, I don't know much about it, but they flew me from California, where I was living, to, I think I was in. Flew me to Tampa, might have been Tampa, I don't know. Flew me to Tampa. And Admiral Olson was a SEAL one time, and he's still a seal, he's still a Marine. He was a nice guy, and he picked me to give me the first one. I didn't get the medal at first. They had to make this. Then they sent it to me in the mail. Then the Marines. This is the Vietnam Medal right here. And this is the Commando Medal, the Raider Medal. So this is stuff all presented me to me, and sometimes I forget to wear. I don't wear it all the time, but I thought I'd wear it for your show.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you.

[Major James Capers]

I wish my wife was here to see this. To see me sitting there with a famous guy like you.

[Sean Ryan]

I'm sure she's watching.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah. Yeah, she probably is.

[Sean Ryan]

And your son, too.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah, he was a musician. You know, he played the piano, the flute, the melodica, the organ.

[Sean Ryan]

Did he really?

[Major James Capers]

Oh, yeah. All the. Yeah, he played in church, but he had other disabilities. He couldn't do what I'm doing now as far as. Hold the conversation. Wonderful child. Wonderful child. We used to sit and hug each other before he went to bed, and. You know, a lovable child. One night he knocked on my door. Al door. He said, dad, I got a headache. He said, I had a stomach ache. I said, okay, son. So went to the hospital. Doctor says, well, you know, there's not a whole lot we can do. So I brought him back the first night, and then the second night it got worse. So I took him back to the hospital, and they said, well, you know, we don't see much we can do with a stomachache. Damn. So I took him back home. Then I took him back the third night. Then, for me, now I'm having a problem. And they had him laid down on a table, and he died right there. They let my son die. You see, I'm not a bad guy, but I was angry. My son is gone now. They had me in a little chapel there. The pastor come in. My wife was sick, and she wasn't there. So I'm standing there, and I don't know what to do. On one way I'm feeling one way I'm angry. My child's lying there dead, and they're telling me they're sorry. You know, demons did come home that night. I told them all, you need to leave me alone now. My wife is coming. I'll be all right. Just leave me alone now. And then everybody tried to tell me this, that. And it got to the point where I didn't lose control. But they didn't know who they were dealing with. I got to kill them all. I thought about that. But God stepped in, said, no, you don't. No, you don't. My wife finally showed up, and I met her at the car, and she came to see our child. Then we walked down this hall together. And we'd been walking down that hall together for a long time. The reason I never remarried. I can appreciate a pretty girl. Dottie was special. A military wife. But we got through that. Seemed like the next day, Dottie dies of cancer. Now I'm thinking, how do I pull this off? Now, the human being, sure, you had stress, but now I'm in a place where I don't need to be. I made a plan to kill the doctor. I called one of my friends in Arizona. And he was going to help me blow up the gas station as a decoy. Policeman and fireman would be there. And when a doctor come out of the hospital, I was going to kill him with my knife. I was gonna kill about my life.

[Sean Ryan]

What stopped you?

[Major James Capers]

God stopped me.

[Sean Ryan]

How?

[Major James Capers]

I'm not good enough to tell you how God works. I don't. I'm not that good. But I know that I pull off the operation. My men was ready to go. They're volunteers. Team from Arizona were here in Jacksonville. We were going to blow a couple of gas stations. And you know, that's the easiest stuff. I'm sure you know how to do that stuff. I got to divert the police force, you know, the fire department. Then when the doctor come out of his office, I was going to be parked, I was going to grab him, I was going to cut his throat. That's what I do. But I probably mentioned that kind of stuff too much in your interview. But God stepped in and I came home. I was home and I had my pastor came over to the house. It was about 3:00 in the morning. Dottie wasn't crying. I didn't know why, but Dottie wasn't crying. I was crying. But I think Dottie had to be tough for me. She believed in God too. We always went to church. You know, we built the church. One time, my troops and I built the church from the ground up. Stole the wood. I hate to say it that way, but we got to some place, we stole some old wood, got it built. Dottie was the first lady and I had a chaplain that wasn't too far. He was helping with it. And my son played the piano in church. Dottie was the first lady. And we sang every Sunday. And my chaplain prayed. And it wasn't a big church, but we enjoyed that so much. And some of the guys who had been in trouble and back in those days, we had some serious issues. And they'd come every Sunday and they enjoyed it so much. Some sort of a relief, I guess, by the commanding officer sitting with him in church and his wife is singing and his son is playing the piano. And my buddy, the chaplain. It was such a wonderful thing to see. Nothing to do with, you know, with anything else but the human spirit. We want to honor God and we want to build a place. And I'm sure you can relate that in the Bible terms. But years later, I went back to that area. I went to see if that church was still. It was a little about this size, I guess, this room. I went back there and I parked my car and I looked around, I said, well, I think it was over here. I started walking over there and the young Marine came out, just came over and says, hey, sir, are you all right? I said, yes, son, there used to be a church about this area over here. He said, no, sir, not that I know of, but I'll help you look. So he's walking along with me. He said, where you come from, sir? I said, well, I live in the area, but I used to be stationed here and there was a church over here that we built and I just thought I would visit it. He said, no, sir, there's no church here. And I've been here for a while and I've never seen or heard of a church. You wouldn't be lying to me, would you, son? He said, no, sir, I never. Marines never lie. Yeah, okay. I got in my car and I drove home. Dottie and Gary were still alive at the time. Sometimes it's hard for me to differentiate the timing because we were blessed with good years and I've been blessed with good years, but my memory is not all that good, which you'll probably see with this interview. I don't remember everything like I should, but then again, I offer the excuse of being 87 years old now.

[Sean Ryan]

You're doing just fine.

[Major James Capers]

Thank you, sir. Appreciate that, Appreciate that. Well, I live by myself and I have. I don't talk to a lot of people. You know, I have guys come to see me. Matter of fact, on the way up here, a friend of mine, a three star general, he come to the house to see me and he's probably going to be the commandant of Marine Corps one day. Nice young man. I was his guest speaker at a Marine Corps ball one time. So they called me out when they need me. I put my tuxedo on and try to hold my stomach in. I saw him the other day, but now we're passing the torch. Young people like yourself and the others, they give me a chance to say some things and I appreciate that. I don't know if I can tell you in sequence because you Never ask an 87 year old man to say something in sequence because I'm gonna be all over the place.

[Sean Ryan]

You established the Gary and Dottie Capers Foundation.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah, I Did to help kids. And I thought I'd honor them by establishing a non profit organization. And I had some volunteers. Nobody's paid to do certain things to raise money. Well, Dottie was there. We started for Gary, but Dottie was still alive. And we started this thing and we'd bring people in, friends in, and raise money for a nonprofit. You know, there were a lot of homeless people in our town, too many homeless people. So now we got to feed them. And we did that. We moved some to my home. We brought the homeless in and Donnie cooked for them, washed their clothes, trying to help, just like I'd been helped. We don't forget those things. When that white family took me in and washed my clothes and gave me clothes and fed me, put me down at night so I could sleep, and stood watch over me as a black man, you don't forget those things. It's a noble example of what America is, what it should be and what it is, not the way it always is.

[Sean Ryan]

Where do people donate to that foundation, their time?

[Major James Capers]

Sometimes they donated money.

[Sean Ryan]

If somebody wanted to donate money, where were they? Where would they?

[Major James Capers]

We have a website and Kenyatta happens to be the president of it. He's the young man that came with me. He happens to be the president of the organization.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, I'll tell you what, we'll put the, the link to the website in the description of this interview. So if anybody wants to donate, bless.

[Major James Capers]

Your heart, they could do it. I knew you had a good heart. I knew you just weren't a mean guy. I knew that it would help us because when the virus hit us, you know, folks lost jobs and McDonald's closed. And I remember when a couple of my guys came to my house and said, major, we lost a McDonald's here. I said, well, yeah, that's okay, but I don't eat at McDonald's anyway. But they told me that one of the ladies there who had a couple of children, didn't have a job and her rent was due, she was going to get evicted. Oh man. They brought it to the house. Nice young lady. I says, how much do you need? She said, well, I need about $2,000. I didn't discuss it. Gave her $2,000 on the spot. I have been homeless, not intentionally. My folks didn't want to give me away, but they thought it would be better with this family and they took me in. But any rate, the foundation has done good. We've had, we have a young lady named Ashley Casado, she did the documentary for us. I don't know if you've ever seen that documentary. And other folks have jumped in to try to help to raise money for the homeless. Not for me. The government gives me a check every month. They pay me a lot of money for the purple hearts. I have a lot. But I have five purple hearts. I can only get three here. I got so many down times. When I got to the hospital, they found holes that I hadn't been. They hadn't told me about back of my legs. And I said how the hell that happened. But there's so many firefights and you're wounded, but you don't go to the hospital to Corman patches you up, you know, you're not gonna. Yeah, you need to be there with your troops. Always with your troops. I did that. I'm an 87 year old man now and I'm telling stories that happened years ago. Nobody gives a Damn anymore. Only 2% of our country joins the military.

[Sean Ryan]

Oh, I think a lot of people are gonna dig. Are gonna give a damn about this one.

[Major James Capers]

So, you know, been a little tough for the old man. Been a little tough. They told me I was coming on your show. I kept calling you Ryan Shaw. They said, no, no, no, remember now you know, he's important. He has so many people listening to him. Don't screw it up.

[Sean Ryan]

I'm not important. I'm just a guy doing what I.

[Major James Capers]

Like to do, which is I'm happy for you.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you.

[Major James Capers]

I'm happy to be here.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, I'm happy to be here too. And I'm happy you're here. And on that note, Major Capers, I just want to say once again, it's an honor.

[Major James Capers]

Thank you.

[Sean Ryan]

To interview you and to get your story out and God bless Dottie and Gary. God bless you. And I really hope your silver star gets upgraded to a medal of honor would be nice.

[Major James Capers]

Are we done? We're done. You told me you'd be here till 6:00. Thank you.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you.

[Major James Capers]

Michael Rosenbaum and his small Bill co.

[Sean Ryan]

Stars take you behind the scenes of one of the greatest shows of all time.

[Major James Capers]

Time. We're gonna watch every episode. Join us. It's big talk. You remember when I had to shave my head?

[Unknown]

Oh, I think I was angry with this one on Smallville.

[Major James Capers]

Yeah, I mean, I get it. The scene you did. And this is the one that got me fired.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Major James Capers]

What? Here we go.

[Sean Ryan]

I love the excursions with me and welling.

[Major James Capers]

It's everything that Superman stands for. It's talk ville talk Bill.

[Sean Ryan]

We always talk about it.

[Unknown]

It's a great thing.

[Sean Ryan]

The Smallville Rewatch Podcast Follow and listen on your favorite platform.