#187 Doug Collins - United States Secretary of Veterans Affairs

Summary

Shawn Ryan Show Podcast Episode #187: Doug Collins - United States Secretary of Veterans Affairs

Release Date: March 31, 2025

Host: Shawn Ryan

Guest: Doug Collins, United States Secretary of Veterans Affairs

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Introduction and Background

The episode kicks off with Shawn Ryan welcoming Doug Collins, the newly appointed Secretary of Veterans Affairs (VA). Doug Collins brings a wealth of experience, having served as a U.S. Navy SEAL, CIA Contractor, and a former U.S. Representative from Georgia's 9th congressional district. His extensive background in military and public service positions him uniquely to address the challenges facing the VA.

Notable Quote:

• Shawn Ryan (00:48): "I hope you're taking this in because I am the guy you're trying to reach. Secretary Collins, welcome to the show."
• Doug Collins (03:12): "You better believe it."

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Appointment and Vision for the VA

Doug Collins discusses how his relationship with the President led to his appointment as Secretary of the VA. He emphasizes the President's trust, stating, "If you've ever been around him, he's just like, I just want... You need to come with me" (Doug Collins, 02:31). Collins highlights his commitment to transforming the VA into a more veteran-centric organization dedicated to addressing real issues rather than maintaining the status quo.

Notable Quote:

• Doug Collins (07:23): "We're not going to be your whipping post anymore. I'm going to tell you the truth and I'm going to give you the answers that we need to do."

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Challenges Facing the VA

The conversation delves into the systemic issues plaguing the VA, including overwhelming wait times, bureaucratic red tape, and a lack of trust among veterans. Shawn shares his personal frustrations, noting, "I haven't stepped into a VA in almost 10 years because my experience has been just atrocious" (Shawn Ryan, 08:13). Doug Collins acknowledges these problems, referencing the Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports that have listed the VA as high-risk for issues like fraud and poor quality healthcare for over a decade.

Notable Quote:

• Doug Collins (16:50): "60% of the calls to your office involve the VA... This is all from statutory law."
• Shawn Ryan (25:59): "How can't they, why can't they get in or why couldn't they get in?"

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Reforming the VA: Strategies and Initiatives

Doug Collins outlines his strategic approach to reforming the VA, focusing on cultural change from the top-down, reducing bureaucratic layers, and reallocating resources to directly benefit veterans. He emphasizes the importance of utilizing technology and partnerships with nonprofits to streamline processes and introduce innovative treatments.

Key Initiatives:

1. Culture Shift: Developing a culture that prioritizes veterans' needs over bureaucratic inertia.
2. Streamlining Processes: Implementing AI and better HR tools to manage employee allocation and reduce redundant layers.
3. Community Care Expansion: Enhancing the VA’s community care programs to provide veterans with more healthcare options outside VA facilities.
4. Innovative Treatments: Exploring and potentially integrating psychedelic therapies for conditions like traumatic brain injuries (TBIs) and mental health issues.

Notable Quote:

• Doug Collins (26:14): "Why don't we actually look at the root cause?"
• Doug Collins (54:27): "I will not sit here for the next four years and spend that amount of money and do the same damn thing."

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Restoring Trust Through Transparency and Partnerships

A significant portion of the discussion centers on rebuilding trust between veterans and the VA. Doug Collins asserts that transparent communication and active involvement with veterans are crucial. He advocates for partnerships with trusted nonprofits and allowing veterans to choose their care providers, thereby increasing accessibility and satisfaction.

Notable Quote:

• Doug Collins (61:35): "The best spokesman for anything is a satisfied customer."
• Shawn Ryan (73:31): "We know what we need and we know what we want, and we can't get it done because some politician in D.C. who didn't ever step a foot on combat is making the decisions for us."

---

Addressing Mental Health and Innovative Therapies

The episode delves into the pressing issue of veteran mental health, including suicide rates and the effectiveness of current treatments. Doug Collins highlights the potential of psychedelic therapies, such as ibogaine treatments, which have shown promising results in studies by institutions like Stanford.

Notable Quote:

• Doug Collins (06:30): "We've done it? We've studied it, we've documented it, and know some people it works."
• Doug Collins (81:57): "We have documented it, and we're going to be rolling out more of this."

---

Streamlining Benefits and Disability Claims

Collins addresses the backlog of disability claims, aiming to reduce processing times and increase efficiency. By cutting non-essential programs and reallocating funds, he plans to expedite claims and ensure veterans receive the benefits they deserve promptly.

Notable Quote:

• Shawn Ryan (30:35): "Why aren't they looking at stuff like that that actually works instead of doing the same old shit?"
• Doug Collins (34:16): "So what we're trying to do now is what's actually working. What we're doing, frankly, ain't working."

---

Combatting Bureaucratic Inefficiencies

The conversation tackles the entrenched bureaucratic systems within the VA that hinder effective service delivery. Collins emphasizes the need to dismantle unnecessary layers and focus on mission-critical operations to improve overall functionality.

Notable Quote:

• Doug Collins (27:29): "We can't keep doing the same thing the same way."
• Doug Collins (36:25): "If you've got people that come to them, they either get help from outside agencies or other stuff. I'm finding a whole different world that I'm just getting into the background of how they're working this stuff."

---

Future Outlook and Commitment

As the episode wraps up, Doug Collins reiterates his commitment to transforming the VA within his tenure. He expresses determination to implement meaningful changes, engage with Congress for legislative support, and collaborate with both political parties to ensure the VA meets veterans' needs effectively.

Notable Quote:

• Doug Collins (112:58): "We're going to have higher standards. We're going to push this up."
• Doug Collins (113:57): "I'm looking forward to the folks like you and others we're going to have my know perfect thank you appreciate thank you thank you."

---

Conclusion

This episode of the Shawn Ryan Show offers an in-depth look into Doug Collins' vision for the VA, addressing systemic challenges and outlining actionable strategies to enhance veterans' care and trust in the institution. Collins’ candid discussion underscores a commitment to transparency, efficiency, and innovative treatment solutions aimed at fulfilling the promises made to those who have served the nation.

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Key Takeaways:

• Cultural Transformation: Emphasizing a top-down culture change within the VA to prioritize veterans' needs.
• Streamlined Processes: Utilizing technology and reducing bureaucratic layers to improve service delivery.
• Community Care and Partnerships: Expanding community care options and partnering with trusted nonprofits to enhance accessibility.
• Innovative Treatments: Exploring new treatment modalities, including psychedelic therapies, to address complex mental health issues.
• Transparency and Trust: Committing to transparent practices and rebuilding trust through direct engagement with veterans.

For More Information:

• Visit: Vigilance Elite
• Follow Shawn Ryan Show: Available on all major podcast platforms.

Transcript

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[Sean]

Don'T trust the VA. We just don't.

[Doug Collins]

You're not going to be getting your sex changed at the VA anymore. That's not what our services are for. And everything that we're taking money wise away to that would take away from money that I could be spending on something else that are helping vets directly who are not even getting primary health care.

[Sean]

480,000 VA employees and there are 450,000 active duty army that, that's 30,000 more than the active army members. I hope you're taking this in because I am the guy you're trying to reach. Secretary Collins, welcome to the show.

[Doug Collins]

Sean. Glad to be here, Bud.

[Sean]

It's an honor to have you here. So the new Secretary of the va. Yep, Lots of stuff to work on.

[Doug Collins]

It's a. What do we call it, A target rich environment.

[Sean]

Yeah, I'll bet it is. Probably even more than I know. So we got a bunch of stuff to talk about today, a whole lot of topics to cover. But I'm just. How did Secretary of the VA pop up on your radar?

[Doug Collins]

Well, I think it come about a lot of things.

[Secretary Collins]

The President and I had known each.

[Doug Collins]

Other for a while and when I was in Congress for eight years, especially those last few years, I was in leadership and I had to was the ranking member of the va. Not the VA Committee, but the Judiciary Committee, which put me in close proximity to the President because we had to deal with the sham Russia stuff, we had to deal with the Mueller, we had to deal with impeachment. And so he and I got got to know each other pretty well and from my fighting during those days to keep the truth just out there about what we were seeing. And so we just had developed a closeness and we kept it up over the time when he was out and when he started campaigning again, I would be out there and I'd show up. And after a while, about a year or so ago, he said, look, I think you need to come with me. And he just said, if you've ever been around him. He's just like, I just want. You need to come with me. And this was a year out, And I said, Mr. President, I said, let's get you elected. We'll talk about whatever you want to do.

[Secretary Collins]

And after that happened, we had some.

[Doug Collins]

Conversations, some other ideas. It was thought about, but then I had some ideas about this, and it came about, and I said, you know, this will be a good spot. It takes my career, takes my passions, and puts it in a position that is as most well known as a politically sensitive department because of Congress and everybody. On the veterans thing, I said, I think we can manage this because we're going to have to make some change that actually matters. And I said, we're going to have to work at it hard, and I think we can do that. So he agreed, brought me in, we discussed it for just a little while, and then I asked him when he said, he said, you want to do it? I said, yes, sir. I said, what do you want me to. I said, what? What do you want me to do, sir? And he said, just take care of my veterans. That was just. That was it Nice.

[Sean]

You intend to do that?

[Doug Collins]

You better believe it.

[Sean]

Perfect. Perfect. Well, before we get too far into the weeds here, everybody gets a gift.

[Secretary Collins]

All right?

[Sean]

Even the secretary of the va all right.

[Doug Collins]

There we go. I love it.

[Sean]

Vigilance League. Gummy Bears. Made in the US and they're legal at all 50 states.

[Doug Collins]

I love it.

[Sean]

Don't worry about feeling weird after you have those or anything.

[Doug Collins]

I love it.

[Sean]

But.

[Ad Read Host]

All right.

[Sean]

So everybody gets an introduction, too, so.

[Doug Collins]

All right.

[Sean]

Doug Collins, secretary of the VA you are the 12th secretary of the Departments of Veterans affairs, confirmed by the Senate in February of 2025 to lead the charge for our nation's veterans.

[Ad Read Host]

You earned a degree in political science.

[Sean]

And criminal justice from the University of North Georgia. You earned a master's degree in divinity from New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary and pastored Chicopee Chicopee Baptist Church for 11 years. In 2006, the people of Georgia's 27th state house district elected you to represent them during your first term in the state legislature. You graduated from Atlanta's John Marshall Law School and established your own legal practice. You were the U.S. representative from Georgia's 9th congressional district from 2013 to 2021.

[Ad Read Host]

You're a veteran who served as a.

[Sean]

Chaplain in the Air Force Reserve, including a deployment to Iraq in 2008 with the 94th Air Wing.

[Ad Read Host]

You remain a colonel in the Air Force Reserve.

[Sean]

You're a husband and a father, and most importantly, a Christian. And some of the things that you've already done, you've already cut DEI programs and shifted $14 million to VA health care and caregiver support, set up telehealth and remote and rural areas, changed the flag policy to only American and POW flags, and over 1 million disability claims in 2025 already. That's two weeks faster than the normal that we've seen. So what are some of the things that you want to change about the va? I have right now the size and scope of the va. I know your doge advisor is here somewhere today. And so what does that look like?

[Doug Collins]

Yeah, well, he's my. And the great part about it is he's my VA employee who helps me with liaison to them, which is a great thing because we've incorporated the whole work of what I think the President's new vision is into our organization in a way that works with us and not against us. I think that's one of the things that there's this idea out there that there's this ominous thing happening in D.C. and the truth of the matter is, no, I'm still the Secretary of va. It comes through my desk. We make decisions, and mine will always be for the veteran. And then how that works out through our VA employees. Where we're seeing the most issue right now is Sean, and this is something almost for many military person, anybody that wants to think about it. The first thing, when you come into a branch or you come into anything you're told about the culture, the culture is this the culture. You will be a airman, you will be a Navy, you'll be a seal, you'll be whatever it is, you've got the culture. Well, the only thing interesting is, in all fairness, Sean, that's culture is at the end of the pipe. It's what comes out of the pipe, it's what goes in at the top that gives you culture.

[Secretary Collins]

There's this idea somewhere that you're out there that you.

[Doug Collins]

All of a sudden you can just pop up culture. And that's just not true. You've got to have people and ideas at the top that then permeate through the system, sort of just like you were eating. And it comes out the other end. Well, it comes out as culture. And so really, that's the first step. For me, the first step is developing a culture that says, we've done it this way for so long. Is this still the right way to do it? And that's, you know, look, I'm Running against people who don't want to change. I'm running against, you know, media union bosses, members of Congress and the Senate who just, you know, they've put.

[Secretary Collins]

Here's the problem.

[Doug Collins]

They've invested so much in a system that's not working that now it's hard for them to admit maybe we need to do something different. So, you know, all the things we're going to talk about today is going to come back to that culture issue. So that's why I'm out here talking to you. That's why I've been on social media, you know, Twitter, anything else I could find.

[Secretary Collins]

Just tell the truth.

[Doug Collins]

And I fought back against the lies. I'm not. I think the sum up my first five weeks is you may have been.

[Secretary Collins]

Able to be VA may have been.

[Doug Collins]

A whipping post for a long time. Some of it I'll agree with you, probably needed to be, but nobody's ever stepped forward to fix it. So here's my thought to everybody. We're not going to be your whipping post anymore. I'm going to tell you the truth and I'm going to give you the answers that we need to do. And I'm going to take care of.

[Secretary Collins]

Our veteran number one, and I'm going.

[Doug Collins]

To make sure our VA employee is the best that we can. So it's a lot goes into it, but it's culture that has to start at the top and also has to filter down and buy in.

[Secretary Collins]

And that's what I'm fighting the most right now.

[Sean]

Yeah, you know, I've got a whole slew of complaints about the va. And, you know, it's funny, but it's not. I mean, I haven't stepped into a VA. I got 100%.

[Secretary Collins]

Yeah.

[Sean]

I haven't stepped into a VA in almost 10 years because my experience has been just atrocious. It was, here's these pills we can't see. I mean, I remember just going to my. I can't remember what they call the appointments where you go in and you get checked out.

[Doug Collins]

Your consultation stuff.

[Sean]

Yeah, the consultations I'm having, doctors come to me. They don't even know what a Navy SEAL is. They're asking me why I didn't go to medical. When I'm attached to a FOB Base, they don't understand what combat is. My doctor shows up in a sweatsuit, barely even speaks any English. And it's just time and time again. And then if you know anything about my show, it started with all special ops combat veterans, and everybody has the same complaints and the same issues and, and it is created. Look, I don't know any one of my friends, and I have friends with the top war fighters on the planet. None of them have a good experience at the va. None of them have anything positive to say about the va. None of them trust the va. And that's why I quit going. I mean, I have more friends that have died of suicide and drug addiction and depression and pts. And everybody's struggling with, especially the special operations guys with the, with the traumatic brain injuries and we just aren't getting any answers at all from the va and so. And then it's just created this distrust. So what I do with my check is I, I buy my own health care instead of use the va because I just, I don't trust the system. I don't like the system. I get treated like shit when I go there. It's like, like I'm faking an injury or something. And so I just got to the point where I just threw my hands up and I was like, man, fuck this, I'm not doing it. I will personally pay for my own healthcare on the civilian side, which is much, much better than anything I've ever had in the va. And so, and then you see a lot of these therapies and I want to dive into this too, but I mean, I'm just going to share my experiences with it because I think you need to know. And I mean, I just talked about traumatic brain injury. I mean, these guys have been breaching doors with high explosives for 20 years. They can't remember where the hell they are, they can't remember what they're doing. The short term memory loss. They drive somewhere, they're driving their kids somewhere, they forget where the hell they're going. They're. When I say they, I mean, we, you know, we're temperamental, we're quick to fly off the handle. There's chemical imbalances, there's the burn pit shit. And now all these different, I mean, it's across the board. I mean, you're seeing all these nonprofits that are stood up by veterans and they're the ones that are actually taking care of us. It's not the va. And psychedelic therapy is one of the big ones that we've seen a tremendous amount of benefit from, especially with traumatic brain injury. I mean, Stanford did a study, fly these guys down, they do a brain scan. They fly these guys down to Mexico, do an ibogaine treatment. My friend Trevor's, he's ambio life sciences there's all these black holes in the brain on the brain scan. They go down there where their brain's not working. They do the ibogaine treatment, they fly them back up to Stanford. Oh, magically, the entire brain is lit up. I just want to. I have to tell you some of this stuff because it's important. One of my best friends of all time. I've known him for probably at least 15 years. We contracted at CIA together, retired Green Beret, sustained one of the biggest blasts I've ever seen. Somebody walk out alive from. Massive traumatic brain injury. Then he gets shot in the head. His wife called. He's been hiding this stuff. His wife calls me and she's like, sean, he's bedridden five to six days a week. He can't walk without a cane because he has vertigo. He can't go outside even on a cloudy day without his sunglasses because the light sensitivity is so bad. He can't. We haven't had sex in over two years. He goes down there, nobody can help him. Nobody at the VA can help him. He goes down there, he does the ibogaine treatment. He leaves his cane there at the facility. He comes home, doesn't need. He doesn't need the cane anymore. Doesn't need the sunglasses, is not bedridden at all anymore. All the vertigo is gone. And then he goes home, has sex with his wife. And that was probably nine months ago. Same. It was like one week to fix that. And I don't even. I don't know. I mean, like I said, I haven't stepped foot in the va. I just gave up on it. But why aren't they looking at stuff like that that actually works instead of doing the same old shit? Oh, here's some pills. Here's this. Let's go do a brain scan. Oh, we don't have any answers. And it's discouraging. And that's not the only nonpro. That's vets that I'm talking about. Veterans exploring. I can't remember. It's vets, right? Vets.org but treatment solutions. But why isn't the VA getting. I mean, and then we have the veteran suicide epidemic, and the numbers are all over the board. They say 22 a day. I hear reports that it's actually 40 a day. When you start looking at the overdoses and stuff like that. I mean, so what's the plan here?

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[Doug Collins]

Tomorrow yeah, well look Sean, you've expressed as you were doing there, what you're seeing with your friends, you're seeing with everybody else. And I think it's it's about battle we face. Okay, When I was in Congress we'd have, I think the interesting part, and this is one of the things I told all the senators, especially when going through confirmation, which I had to go through to get this, I said 60% of your constituent calls, in other words, 60% of the calls to your office for help in Some way involve the va, either vha, our health benefits, or their regular or their other benefits, disability benefits, other things like that.

[Secretary Collins]

60%. Some of them looked at me like.

[Doug Collins]

No, and it was interesting. The staff would be sitting in the.

[Sean]

Side going, 60% of what?

[Doug Collins]

60 of all their calls. So like a phone call to a.

[Secretary Collins]

Congressman or a senator, I need, I'm having trouble. 60%. Okay, then that's. And some would actually be higher, some.

[Doug Collins]

Actually maybe a little lower.

[Secretary Collins]

So just average out around 60%. Like I said, some of the members.

[Doug Collins]

Were like, I don't know. But yet they're staff sitting. Yeah, it is. It is, because I hear it all the time.

[Secretary Collins]

Think about that for a second.

[Doug Collins]

Let's just ponder for just one second.

[Secretary Collins]

That that many people, and we're talking.

[Doug Collins]

Thousands, with each congressman, each senator a year calling about a organization that is.

[Secretary Collins]

Supposed to be already set up to.

[Doug Collins]

Give them what they have earned, to give them the benefits that they have earned through Congress action. This is none just dreamed up by a president. This is all from statutory law.

[Secretary Collins]

But yet having to call them because.

[Doug Collins]

They can't get the help they need.

[Secretary Collins]

Only in Washington, D.C. do we call that normal. Only in Washington, D.C. do we call that okay, I call it failure.

[Doug Collins]

And I've called that out since the day that I got sworn in that we're not going to allow any more this discussion that it's okay to have to call for what you should be getting already now.

[Secretary Collins]

If you don't want it, don't take.

[Doug Collins]

It, go other way.

[Secretary Collins]

That's why we have choices.

[Doug Collins]

That's why we have other things to do.

[Secretary Collins]

But when it gets into the stuff that you're talking about, this goes back to that culture argument that I was.

[Doug Collins]

Talking about to start with.

[Secretary Collins]

It gets into the situation where we've just sort of done it this way.

[Doug Collins]

And the argument at the VA is.

[Secretary Collins]

Well, everybody complains, everybody does, rightfully so.

[Doug Collins]

Even if they're new employees, they get well, the VA is awful.

[Secretary Collins]

And there's been a lot of problems.

[Doug Collins]

And probably in a lot of stuff.

[Secretary Collins]

To back that up.

[Doug Collins]

I'm not going to disagree with you.

[Secretary Collins]

But there's also a lot of times when you got. The ones who are trying to do.

[Doug Collins]

It are getting bogged down in the people trying to get in a system that is broken.

[Secretary Collins]

So it would be like me, I.

[Doug Collins]

Do a lot of counseling. I have it for years, of course, when I was pastoring and as chaplain and everything else, a lot of counseling. And if you in a relationship, the relationship starts, let's say with a man, you know, husband and wife and members don't matter if they're military or not, but if they have a relationship and.

[Secretary Collins]

They have issue in which one does.

[Doug Collins]

Not trust the other, and you come into that position that they've now developed into a problem where they don't talk, they're fighting, they're maybe going to get divorced or breaking up, whatever, and then I walk into the room and I say, I want to help you, but the only thing that I can give.

[Secretary Collins]

You, the one thing you got to.

[Doug Collins]

Have to fix the relationship is the one thing that's broken. To fix a relationship, you got to have trust.

[Secretary Collins]

If you can't have trust, you're not.

[Doug Collins]

Going to fix a relationship.

[Secretary Collins]

You can smooth it, you can paste.

[Doug Collins]

It over, you can do whatever you want to do, but you got to have trust.

[Secretary Collins]

In the va, we're a similar situation.

[Doug Collins]

In a sense that people have for so long said, I have to do it by this prescribed method, by this prescribed way, or there's going to be a congressional person say something or do.

[Secretary Collins]

Something, or I'm going to get complained.

[Doug Collins]

About, or we're going to do this, or the union says, we got to keep your job. So you just keep doing whatever you're doing. We'll protect your job and go forward.

[Secretary Collins]

So when it comes to new ideas, there's, you know, there's some good things.

[Doug Collins]

That you never hear about.

[Secretary Collins]

But when it comes to ideas such.

[Doug Collins]

As you're talking about with a new.

[Secretary Collins]

Generation of war fighter, this new generation of warfighter doesn't come that they're starting.

[Doug Collins]

To come to the va if they have issues of prosthetics, they have issues of, you know, they've lost limbs, they've done stuff like that, because there's some of that we do probably as well, if not better than most anywhere you're going to find.

[Secretary Collins]

But when it comes to other areas.

[Doug Collins]

Like the traumatic brain injury, to, like, the issues of sleep deprivation, the issues.

[Secretary Collins]

Of addictions, saying we're stuck in a.

[Doug Collins]

System that is not allowing. Now in the Bronx, there's a clinical study on psychedelics that we've actually been a part of, and it's working. We're seeing tremendous change. Bobby Kennedy, who's now the new HHS sector Health and Human Services secretary, he and I sat in my office two weeks ago and talked about this very issue, and how do we get it incorporated in some of it. We're bound because we're actually a health care, actually hospital health care organization. We're bound by Some of the laws that Congress has made that have bound us into what we can use and what we use, I'll use a big example. There is marijuana. Marijuana has always been a fight treatment in some areas. And you've had a lot of congressmen say we're not going to do that, we're going to keep it where it's at. And so it binds us a little bit. But in one of the areas I'm looking at to get what you're talking about is a number of years ago, Donald Trump actually promoted a thing called right to try. It was legislation in which if you were dying, if you had other issues, why not let you try something? What are we hurting here? And if it works, then it's a miracle and we're good. We're actually exploring right now. Among the many things that I'm shoveling as fast as my shovel can shovel is to see is there ways under right to try that. We can expand some of those programs right now into psychedelics, into others. Treatments range from hyperbaric to everything else that says, is this working? You know, is it working? How do we expand it out? We know from case like what you just talked about that it is working. We know from experience that in some people this is, this is, you know, a dead on treatment for what they need. But I've got to get a mindset change that says and this is what I'm facing almost all the time is.

[Secretary Collins]

Well, you can do that. But there's a risk, Sean. Getting up out of bed in the morning and going to the bathroom and taking a shower is a risk.

[Doug Collins]

I'm going to fall and bust my head and die.

[Secretary Collins]

That's a risk. Getting up and walking and getting a.

[Doug Collins]

Car is a risk. I want us to help the people who need help. But then there's also another generational issue we're having right now. And the generational issue is something that's going to be a little bit harder for me to tackle because it's not just the VA assimilating itself to the, the younger war fighter, the GWAT fighter, my generation fighter, your generation fighter, who are not joiners. We don't join Kiwanis, we don't join Rotary. We don't join, for most of this generation, they don't join the vfw, they don't join the American Legion, they don't do those things. They go with their buddies. They're drawn to nonprofits who are actually doing something on 10% margins instead of the opposite way around. 90% of what they do is going to fixing something. Instead of 90% going to fix the organization, 10% may be helping. These are kind of things that we got to deal with. So now I've got to get them back. Just like you to say how?

[Secretary Collins]

What can I do inside the VA to make enough change that I get.

[Doug Collins]

That I can get another shot, that I can get another shot to say, look, if you want the care here, fine, but if not, we're going to.

[Secretary Collins]

Pay for it in the community.

[Doug Collins]

See, that's another issue that the previous administration, the last four years have been horrific for expansion of care, which Donald Trump promoted in his first term and I voted for when I was in Congress.

[Secretary Collins]

They just went away from it, Sean, because it's a mindset. You got to understand the mindset of.

[Doug Collins]

The VA and the mindset that the Biden administration and the previous administration spent.

[Secretary Collins]

Tens of billions of dollars, well over 100 billion and tens of thousand employees.

[Doug Collins]

Well over 50,000 in the last four years alone.

[Secretary Collins]

Four years. And you know what?

[Doug Collins]

Our metrics have either just stopped or they've actually went backwards.

[Secretary Collins]

So all these people that are screaming.

[Doug Collins]

You know that, you know, you can't.

[Secretary Collins]

Cut anybody, you can't change it. Well, you've tried that now for the past 10 years.

[Doug Collins]

And you know what Gao says, government accounting offices said you're on the high risk list. VA has been on the high risk danger list of race, fraud and abuse and poor quality health care in many of our facilities for 10 years.

[Secretary Collins]

That's just unacceptable.

[Doug Collins]

But yet the past three or four weeks, if you've watched any of the headlines, I'm being skewered and pillared by some of our VSO community and some of our members of the Senate and House that you can't change. You're going to hurt. Wait times. You're going to hurt.

[Secretary Collins]

You've done that already. Our wait times are not where they need to be. Our backlog is too high. It was under 60,000 when Trump we left office is over 225,000 now. And that's with all the numbers. I just told you this is just bullcrap, okay?

[Doug Collins]

We can't keep doing the same thing the same way.

[Secretary Collins]

So really, what those folks on the.

[Doug Collins]

Hill and some of those outside and outside agencies and groups are saying is the va. Oh, yeah, we know it's bad.

[Secretary Collins]

And you just got to keep throwing.

[Doug Collins]

Stuff at it because it protects our jobs, protects our workers and protects the system.

[Sean]

See, that's what I see. I see a bunch of bureaucrats that don't actually give a shit about veterans. They only give a shit about the va. And not that the VA is actually doing its job, but I mean, I've got a stat written down here. There are 480,000 VA employees and there are 450,000 active duty army.

[Secretary Collins]

Yeah, it's about right.

[Sean]

And veterans all over the country have been dying, waiting to get treatment, committing suicide, dying, you know, because they can't get. So with 480,000, that's 30,000 more than the active army members. How can't they, why can't they get in or why couldn't they get in?

[Secretary Collins]

Well, because a lot of it.

[Doug Collins]

Think about that organizational structure.

[Secretary Collins]

Where is most of that organizational structure going? You know, I've been told since, you.

[Doug Collins]

Know, we started the confirmation process and we started asking these questions, well, PACT act did this PACT act forced us, you know, and by the way, that was Biden thought of it at State of the Union a few months, acted it, not really thinking about cost. And by the way, when the House and Senate, I speak Hill because I.

[Secretary Collins]

Was up there for a long time. Here's what you do. You want to make somebody think you're doing something.

[Doug Collins]

You pass a bill, you leave a.

[Secretary Collins]

Lot of the stuff in the middle, either unfunded or open ended. You get the president to sign it and then you declare it a victory. Never mind going to the actual agency.

[Doug Collins]

That'S going to have to do this.

[Secretary Collins]

And give them help and instructions on.

[Doug Collins]

How to make it happen.

[Secretary Collins]

But I was told that was why the monies and everything increased so much. Well, I've asked, where are these employees that were hired for PACT Act?

[Doug Collins]

I mean, if we've hired all these employees to do pact, where are they at?

[Secretary Collins]

And only get one off answers like, well, we've had to do something here. We can't.

[Doug Collins]

All right, I come here to share the truth. I'm just not BS anymore.

[Secretary Collins]

I just can't.

[Doug Collins]

I don't know, whatever, but, but I.

[Secretary Collins]

Can'T tell you where all 480,000 people are.

[Doug Collins]

I can't tell you. Now here's the interesting issue. You were in the military. You were in the SEAL team. You know, if you went to your commander or you went to your headquarters, headshot, they could actually look down a list. They could pull every base, they could pull every unit, they could pull everything and by the line item, tell you who was assigned where and what their.

[Secretary Collins]

Billet number was, what their pass number.

[Doug Collins]

Was and everything else. You know exactly where they're at.

[Secretary Collins]

I do not have an HR system.

[Doug Collins]

That allows me easily to do that. Think about that for a second, let.

[Secretary Collins]

That sink in when all these other.

[Doug Collins]

Issues we're talking about is out there.

[Secretary Collins]

So I can't even at this point.

[Doug Collins]

Now, I'm working on it. That's been one thing where I've already.

[Secretary Collins]

Hit the ground running.

[Doug Collins]

I've got some people that are helping.

[Secretary Collins]

We're going to try and fix that pretty quick because if I don't know where they are, then this organization is.

[Doug Collins]

Functionally not ready for action. It's just not.

[Secretary Collins]

And you got a lot of things. I mean, we've had organizational structure at.

[Doug Collins]

The, you know, cutting bureaucracy in a management level in Washington and across the.

[Secretary Collins]

Plains is going to be something that was one of the first looks. We're going to be. I don't need six people. I mean, it'd be like, I'm trying to put this in maybe ways that your guys and fucking gals would understand who watch this podcast and listen. It would be almost like having in one unit, having six from Air Force, having six shirts in one unit. Which one do you go to? Who answers to who? And then also having two or three chiefs above the six shirts to say, well, go get that approved, go get that approved. Go get that approved. Go get that. Oh, and then, by the way, we'll have to go find the. We get the wing commander to sign off. So from an Air Force perspective, it's just bureaucracy layers. Some of these were started for real reasons, you know, that, hey, we need.

[Doug Collins]

To manage our, like, central vision Care, which is our division, but they were.

[Secretary Collins]

Supposed to have 20 and 30 people. Now some of them have 3 and 4 and 500. They just grow for the sake of growing. But not. Nobody has called it like I'm trying to call it now in a real sensible way is to say, what is our return on investment? Are we helping a veteran? Is the veteran being helped? Not a press release from the Hill, not a bill that says you think.

[Doug Collins]

You'Re doing something, but are we actually doing stuff that allows the veteran choice? By the way, the Mission act, what we talked about is to let you.

[Secretary Collins]

Go out in the community. We're going to pay for that because you've earned the benefit. We're going to make it to where you can go out into the community and get the care you need. But yet over the last previous administration, there was.

[Doug Collins]

We have documented it and we're going to be rolling out more of this.

[Secretary Collins]

Where we saw basically an a turn.

[Doug Collins]

Toward de incentivizing and actually keeping Veterans from getting the care they need, even.

[Secretary Collins]

If it meant waiting longer.

[Doug Collins]

Sean, this is this. The more I dig, the worse it gets.

[Secretary Collins]

And we're just, we're right now making sure that we're starting to get out so that we can have a whole new culture shift to help the people we're supposed to be helping.

[Sean]

How is that going to work? How's it going to. How do, how do, how do I do that? How do I use the VA to pay for my community healthcare in the civilian market?

[Secretary Collins]

If you meet certain criteria like distance.

[Doug Collins]

And time, especially what it was designed for is especially those who are away from a VA health clinic or a center where they can get it quickly. What they can do is a real simple checklist to see do you qualify that. And most you do in different areas, especially specialty care.

[Secretary Collins]

And then here's where I don't like.

[Doug Collins]

Some of this and I've not liked it for years.

[Secretary Collins]

One, we have a third party administrator.

[Doug Collins]

Which we're actually looking. Anytime you put another third party anything in there, it tends to bog the system. They're supposed to be finding community doctors, they're supposed to be finding the system where we send them to the VA technically still has a sign off right now where you see a VA dot and the doctor says, yep, we agree, and then you send them.

[Secretary Collins]

That's becoming a little bit of a.

[Doug Collins]

Problem because we're seeing, we've seen some issues in which the furrows were not happening. Okay. So again, I'm digging into this. It's not everybody, but I'm seeing it enough to develop a pattern here. You see it randomly, you might think, no, but when you start seeing it enough, there's a pattern of what I call abuse of the law, basically.

[Secretary Collins]

So you get that and then you go.

[Doug Collins]

And then it's turned in, it's paid for just as if you were going to through the VA system itself. So these are out there.

[Secretary Collins]

These parts have been there. Mission act gave that, it expanded that. But you got to also use it. I mean, I can give you the best rifle in the world, but if you don't use it, it's just useless to.

[Sean]

Well, I think a lot of, I think a lot of people don't know how to use the VA system. I'm one of them.

[Secretary Collins]

Yeah.

[Sean]

I mean, and I want to get into this later, but I mean even, even just to get the, the initial, to get the benefits, to go through the, the doctor's appointments to, you know, oh, my shoulder's messed up, I got tinnitus. I got tbi, whatever. All those. What do they call those? The initial appointments, the consults.

[Doug Collins]

Yeah, yeah, the consults. Yeah.

[Sean]

You know, a lot of vets, they don't even know how to get into the consults or then you get in the consults and it's almost like a damn interrogation. And it's like, I'll give you an example. They denied my tinnitus. I'm a Navy seal. I shot a lot of guns, I blew a lot of shit up. I've seen a lot of combat. I have fucking tinnitus. Sorry, lady, I don't know like what the hell you're talking about. You can't even test for that. Just give me the tinnitus. Look at my service record. They deny it, you know, and then I gotta go find. And then I got introduced to this woman, Peggy Matthews, Veterans Advocacy Services. She's like probably 80 years old, runs it. Is like an angel to me and my guys because she's the one that can take our package, turn it into something, and somehow, some way, she gets it fast tracked through the ba. But for us to try to navigate the Veterans Administration, it's impossible.

[Secretary Collins]

Why should we have that? Sean, think about that.

[Doug Collins]

That's what I'm asking.

[Secretary Collins]

Yeah, but I'm also bringing it back. Is someone. You know, look what I. Looking ahead in five weeks of sitting here doing this job, I have been seeing the exact same. Asking the exact same questions and say, why is it you have to have.

[Doug Collins]

A VA whisperer, so to speak, to.

[Secretary Collins]

Get what should be honestly yours to.

[Doug Collins]

Stay and to take part in? Okay, you're exactly right. I mean, like now as we look.

[Secretary Collins]

At this, this is the concern that.

[Doug Collins]

A lot of us are having. But how many government agencies are like this?

[Secretary Collins]

Think about it. You're supposed to pay your taxes.

[Doug Collins]

I'll just use another. The irs. You're supposed to pay your taxes, but yet you call the IRS hotline and.

[Secretary Collins]

They can't answer your questions. The very ones who will put you.

[Doug Collins]

In jail for not paying your taxes.

[Secretary Collins]

Can't answer some of your basic questions.

[Doug Collins]

About how to file your taxes.

[Secretary Collins]

Well, as we get into the process of the va, and I was just.

[Doug Collins]

With local vet center here, and one.

[Secretary Collins]

Of the things I asked him, I said, tell me something. Start telling me, getting up to me. Tell me things that hinder veterans from.

[Doug Collins]

Getting the benefits or being a part of this system. Tell me what in our paperwork process, what in our setup is causing us problems.

[Secretary Collins]

Because here's what we are seeing, though. To those unlike some experiences you've had.

[Doug Collins]

Especially a number of years ago.

[Secretary Collins]

But what we're seeing today, there's been an improvement is that once they can get through the system, we're seeing general satisfaction rating among veterans of different generations.

[Doug Collins]

Saying, okay, this may not be. They like the care.

[Secretary Collins]

They may not be what I want. It may not be for everybody, but.

[Doug Collins]

80, 90%, you know, saying, hey, this is. This is okay. I'm getting what I need or the benefits. They're getting their package. But getting to it has been our problem getting us through that front line.

[Secretary Collins]

To say, this is an agency that is open. Look, I don't have my phone with me right now, but if I had my phone with me right now, I bet your private insurance. I know my. I know my health care with my.

[Doug Collins]

Wife, who I've been on state health in Georgia forever.

[Secretary Collins]

I can right now pull up on.

[Doug Collins]

My phone all my prescriptions, my doctor's appointments.

[Secretary Collins]

I could talk to my doctor if I wanted to. We don't have that. Why is the large. And here's the other thing. We're the largest healthcare system in the country by far.

[Doug Collins]

By far.

[Secretary Collins]

Now, there's a couple of privates that.

[Doug Collins]

Like to say they're close.

[Secretary Collins]

I have 170 hospitals over almost 1500.

[Doug Collins]

Clinic C box clinics.

[Secretary Collins]

And that's not counting the mobile stuff.

[Doug Collins]

We do and everything else.

[Secretary Collins]

That's how massive this organization is.

[Doug Collins]

Okay?

[Secretary Collins]

And they've all run on siloed issues.

[Doug Collins]

I heard an issue today that was.

[Secretary Collins]

About, you know, just simple things as transportation.

[Doug Collins]

Well, and when they were asked for.

[Secretary Collins]

Help, they said, well, that's not a.

[Doug Collins]

VHA issue, which is our health side. That's a VBA issue, which is our benefit side.

[Secretary Collins]

Well, I'm here to say, I'm the secretary of all of you.

[Doug Collins]

We're going to start acting like we're.

[Secretary Collins]

One company and not three companies working in the middle. And we've got to. But again, Congress has facilitated this. Some prior administrations have facilitated this. Because here's the thing, Sean.

[Doug Collins]

How many times have you run across somebody who wasn't a veteran? And especially in public life, if they're not a veteran and they run for office, it's hard for them to have honest questions to a veteran or to veteran service organizations, which may or may not have the interest that they need to be promoting or another organization, and they say, well, and I had a gentleman on the floor of the House one time and good friend, good guy, never served.

[Secretary Collins]

And there was an issue on the.

[Doug Collins]

Floor and it was wrong. It was Just wrong. I mean, we should be doing it differently. Okay, there's a budget item.

[Secretary Collins]

And I said, you know, and I.

[Doug Collins]

Went to this person and I said.

[Secretary Collins]

Because they're very vocal, I said, you know, this is wrong.

[Doug Collins]

We shouldn't be doing it this way. This should go into the budget. It shouldn't be done separately. This is the way we should be done.

[Secretary Collins]

And I'll never forget. And it just floored me. The person looked at me and he.

[Doug Collins]

Said, Doug, I know that he said, but I'm not a veteran. And he said, I can't have somebody attacking me as being against veterans.

[Secretary Collins]

Sean, think about what he just said. He was willing to make a bad.

[Doug Collins]

Vote because he was scared of the political fallout of being seen as against veterans. We've seen this consistently with policy that comes out of Congress for the va. We've seen it consistently in situations where the va, they will pass budgets and.

[Secretary Collins]

Then complain about it, because that's the way you do it. We have veteran service organizations that honestly at times seem more at war with me and the VA than they do their membership. Now, they're good people. I'm not trying to throw them under the bus. That's not what I'm trying to say here. But if your only way that you satisfy your membership is to say we fought the VA and won, huh? We're on the same page. We're supposed to be on the same page here. We're trying to help veterans, too, but we can't have adversarial roles to fix the problems that you're talking about, because when we do that, we're just simply going in circles. It's got to be an all in approach. Lord willing, Donald Trump's here. I know I've got hopefully four years to do this, but I really got 18 months.

[Doug Collins]

My mission is about 18 months to.

[Secretary Collins]

Get in, to start making the transformational process, to take the generational change that Donald Trump said he was going to.

[Doug Collins]

Bring to D.C. and I saw him just the other day. I mean, he and I talked last.

[Secretary Collins]

Friday and he said, he said, what about my. And he brought up the community care. He brought up all the folks being able to go out and get the choices they need. I said, sir, we're working on it. I said, but I got some problems. I need your help. He said, no, whatever do, we'll take care of it. But these are the kind of generational change we got to have. And so now one of the things we're experiencing is you mentioned how much we have.

[Doug Collins]

Well, we had A across the board reduction in force is what it's called a rif. Now the interesting thing is the legacy media, liberal media, the unions are all going nuts. How can you cut this money out of the federal government?

[Secretary Collins]

The federal government will never survive if.

[Doug Collins]

We cut 50, 15% out of the workforce.

[Secretary Collins]

Well, Bill Clinton and Al gore in.

[Doug Collins]

The 90s cut 13 to 14%, 12 to 14% out of the federal government, several hundred thousand jobs. Nobody griped. And by the way, we're still 20 something years in the future, almost 30. The government not only survived, it got bigger again.

[Secretary Collins]

So what we're looking at now is.

[Doug Collins]

How do we do this? And we go into systems that are broken and take out the layers that don't need to be there. The things that are keeping veterans from getting the benefits that they've earned, keeping them from health care, keeping them from going into the community and getting the care that they need, getting access to new treatments like psychedelics or other things. We need to get that funding that's.

[Secretary Collins]

Been there to fund positions and worry.

[Doug Collins]

About funding veterans health care and worrying about funding veterans benefits.

[Secretary Collins]

If we can do that, then we've got a chance. But what we've got right now is a system. And actually some Republicans and Democrats and some other organizations that are simply saying who will look on their own web pages, their websites and their statements. The VA is too much wait time, too long to do this and broken. But yet I've seen quotes and tweets. Secretary Collins needs to be careful on how he does the reorganization of the va. It needs to be more structured and more or better yet, some act said we don't need to get rid of anybody at the VA. What that's basically saying is for 10 years GAO has.

[Doug Collins]

Said we're on high risk that we.

[Secretary Collins]

Can'T get rid of bad employees. By the way, did you know that when we had the president signed a bill accountability act back at the end.

[Doug Collins]

Of his term and we fired, there was almost 4,000 people fired at the.

[Secretary Collins]

VA for stuff like showing up drunk.

[Doug Collins]

In the or doing other things. We fired them.

[Secretary Collins]

Guess what? The union and others had lawsuits. And when Donald Trump left office, basically the Biden administration through some series of bad judgment, just basically quit and said we'll bring them all back and give them back pay whether they came back or not. This is the kind of problem we're dealing with.

[Doug Collins]

Sean.

[Secretary Collins]

It's not an easy. Just get your head out of your rear system. We've got to actually make structural changes so that number one, we can get rid of the bad, hire good and put a culture in that the veteran is first.

[Doug Collins]

I've said it every day I have been in this office and I'm not.

[Secretary Collins]

Taking a day off really yet.

[Sean]

So how do you plan on, how do you plan on leaning that process out for these guys to get benefits?

[Secretary Collins]

It's going to be the.

[Doug Collins]

Here's where we're starting right now.

[Secretary Collins]

We're starting a process using career employees.

[Doug Collins]

Others in the system to say, okay, because we're under this to mandate to get the fat out and then we can use that money to redirect. We're already redirecting over $500 million right now that's in the process being redirected towards suicide. Which by the way, I want to talk about. You need to hear what's going on there and you're not going to like it, but you need to hear homelessness the same way we're redirecting that toward prosthetic care, we're redirecting it toward community care. We're redirecting that money. All that money was sitting out here that was, you know, for PowerPoint and meeting notes, kind of stuff that we were doing is now going back to the veteran itself. We're going to have to, as we go through looking for this reduction in force, we're going to take out folks that are not forward facing when it comes to veterans health. In other words, it's amazing to me, and I don't know if you've read just recently the paper, we let 2400 people go about two weeks ago, three weeks ago and all of a sudden, Wall Street Journal, New York Times, all the legacy media, the Hill senators and others, union members.

[Secretary Collins]

Collins is killing health care. Collins is gutting the va, Collins is calling. And then they'll say, well, and they'll find somebody who said they had their.

[Doug Collins]

Surgery that was, was put off or that their appointment was rescheduled.

[Secretary Collins]

None of the people, the people we fired were publicists, interior designers, laborers. I mean this is what we're talking about here. How has your surgery been put off.

[Doug Collins]

Because an interior designer was laid off?

[Secretary Collins]

It wasn't. It's a lie. But what we have is. You know what's interesting though? If you'd gone back to January 15th of this year and that same surgery had been put off, it would have never made a headline. Yeah, because now we're doing something. So now we just got to start trimming those out. Forward facing with the health care, with our benefit side are not, that's not the Areas we're looking at, we're looking at, I think somebody told me the other day, think about this. We have almost 16,000 contract agents, contractors.

[Doug Collins]

All they do is contracts.

[Secretary Collins]

16,000, really? Let's take a look and see if.

[Doug Collins]

We need 16,000 contract agents.

[Secretary Collins]

Let's see if we need five and six levels of bureaucracy in some of.

[Doug Collins]

These situations and instead take those money, redirect it back to where it needs to go, then you're going to be able to get, you know, quicker access.

[Secretary Collins]

Then you're going to be able to cut. Oh, by the way, I'm also going.

[Doug Collins]

To look at, you know, if we can. If there's 10 sheets of paper for.

[Secretary Collins]

You to get in. Let's see if we can do that.

[Doug Collins]

With four sheets of paper.

[Secretary Collins]

Let's see if we can ask better questions and get better results.

[Sean]

Let's talk about the suicide.

[Doug Collins]

Let's do.

[Sean]

What do you want to say about that?

[Secretary Collins]

Whatever we have been doing for the last five years, for whatever good there.

[Doug Collins]

Was, and there's been some. Explain to me how in the past five years, six years of budgets, we've spent approximately $15 billion and the number is basically unchanged. We spent $588 million, 588 million on preventive supposed suicide. We spend 2.3 billion in what we'll call treatment of either the mental aspect, health aspect of that, you know, issues that they've had with hurting themselves, other things like 2.3 billion. So $3 billion total roughly, in suicide. And yet our numbers are not changing, Sean. We go from a low about 63, 6400, up to almost 7000 a year. Now, you made mention earlier of what's the real number? That's an arguable debate, and I've heard this from others. It actually may be 25:30, depending on how you classify overdose and how you. Or also, frankly, in rules, rural communities. I grew up in a rural community. Suicide is something you don't talk about. And you get some of these medical examiners and coroners in these smaller counties, they'll call it accidental or something else.

[Secretary Collins]

So we may not know because it's.

[Doug Collins]

Just that stigma of suicide that's attached.

[Secretary Collins]

So what I'm looking at here is what's actually working. What we're doing, frankly, in just all fairness, ain't working. You can't do that much this long and say it's working.

[Doug Collins]

So.

[Secretary Collins]

So what we're trying to do now.

[Doug Collins]

And what I'm beginning to do is I want to know why that 588 million is going for.

[Secretary Collins]

I want to know what are we supposedly doing to and don't just tell.

[Doug Collins]

Me you're putting a Facebook ad out there.

[Secretary Collins]

Don't tell me that you're running the.

[Doug Collins]

Call the crisis line number out there.

[Secretary Collins]

Which are all fine and good, but where are we at actually hitting to the members who are listening to your.

[Doug Collins]

Podcast who have no want to to go to the va?

[Secretary Collins]

Because here's the other part of that. Whether the number is 17 or the number's 24 or even higher, the statistics.

[Doug Collins]

Are pretty good that say that 50%.

[Secretary Collins]

Of those folks have never been touched by the VA. 50%. That's just unacceptable.

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[Secretary Collins]

So my one of the things I'm starting and starting right here with you.

[Doug Collins]

I'm starting with other things that we're.

[Secretary Collins]

Going to be doing. I'm trying to reach that veteran who's sitting out there who's saying, you know, screw the va. I went over one time and they didn't even treat me like I was human. Or that was their perception. You know, look, everybody's got a perception and you know, that may be your perception.

[Doug Collins]

You wasn't treated well. It may have been a bad day.

[Secretary Collins]

For them, bad day for you. But then they're sitting in there in.

[Doug Collins]

Their home and they're self medicating or they're going off doing destructive things. They're going to end up toward a point where they don't see a reason to go on. But if they listen to your podcast.

[Secretary Collins]

They listen to my I'm going to sit here and say, look folks, let's get help. Let me send somebody. Go to an organization you trust, Call your battle buddy, call your airman, call your wingman, whoever it is. We got to get out of this stigma that is that we don't touch people that are saying they have problems. Think about your friend that you just talked about. He's not going to run out in the front yard and say, hey, I'm really not able to function today. They're not going to do that. But we got to find them. We got to get ways that people like his wife and others have the ability to reach out to somebody and.

[Doug Collins]

Say, here's real ways we can help.

[Secretary Collins]

And get back to the simple fact of, hey, are we actually treating this.

[Doug Collins]

As what it is?

[Secretary Collins]

And that is a serious condition brought on many times by things that were out of their control or what they saw or what they didn't.

[Doug Collins]

I was in Nashville today at National Songwriters Association. Some folks I've known for years who write country music songs, they write songs all over the world for stuff you hear on the radio all the time. And there's a couple organizations that work with veterans, American Song, there's some others where they get veterans together and who have had years of not being able to express themselves, not being able. They feel isolated and they get them down. They start talking with other veterans and they start writing a song. They say, write a song, and they show them and talk to them about how to do that. I had a veteran today who told me, he said, been married 50 something years. He said, I was in Vietnam.

[Secretary Collins]

He said, I never.

[Doug Collins]

My wife never hardly knew anything about what happened. He said, I just didn't talk about it. And he said, 10 years ago, somebody finally got to me. And he said, I sat down and I wrote this song. He said, and it was not the song itself, it's the action of putting it on paper.

[Secretary Collins]

And he says, now I'm able to talk to her.

[Doug Collins]

I'm able to release that. There's another gentleman. This is a Vietnam veteran.

[Secretary Collins]

There's another gentleman there who again, his kids. And you know the saying, how many.

[Doug Collins]

Times do people say, tell me a war story, Shawn. Tell me what you did. Tell me what's cool.

[Secretary Collins]

This guy was saying, he said he didn't want to talk about it. And his kids would ask him, granddad, dad, what are you doing? And he couldn't talk about it. He got in this position in a power of a song where he wrote down what happened to him at Tet way back when, when he saw his buddies burned up in a tank. When he saw that, and you could see it as if it was today in his eyes. But then he was able to say, if you want to know it, then listen to this song. Listen to the words that I wrote down. That's a totally different way to look at this stuff. We've got to reach the veteran where they are. And if it's hunting, let's take them, you know, let's match them with somebody that can talk to them and get them out on a duck blind somewhere or get them out in the field if they can't. If they want to do exercise, let them do that. Or if they just want to sit and get coffee or they want to, you know, go have a beer, do something. Instead of just spending $588 million on programming, let's see if our program is actually being effective. I'm just not going to sit here. I may do a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong in the next few years, but I will tell you this. I will not sit here for the next four years and spend that amount of money and do the same damn thing. I'm just not going to do it.

[Sean]

How will you know if it's working?

[Secretary Collins]

I'm going to see if my numbers go down. I'm going to see how many people are responding. I'm going to see if we're reaching people that we've not reached for. Because if we're starting to touch them, then we're going to start seeing them into our systems. I'm looking to use nonprofits, by the way. I'm non discriminatory here. I don't care if they come to the VA or not. I want them to come to the VA because we've got resources to help. But if they're willing to go to a non profit somewhere, if they're willing to go down to their church somewhere, but they heard about it from this weird guy from Georgia who happens to be the secretary of VA to say, go get help, it's okay, then we're going to see our communities put back together better. We're going to see people and families come back together. You're going to hear it from your buddies, I'm going to hear it from mine. Because those people, we hear about them, but they're not getting help that they need because it's so quiet. I'll use an example for you. My daughter has spina bifida. She was born, she's 32 years old now. If she were to come in here and she rolled in in her little.

[Doug Collins]

Chair, she'll knock socks off of you. She's got a smile. She's never walked day in her life.

[Secretary Collins]

I mean, you know, I've watched her not experience the, quote, normal, you know.

[Doug Collins]

Going on dates and getting married and all that. I just, you know, I've watched.

[Secretary Collins]

It broke my heart for her she.

[Doug Collins]

Just gets up and goes every day. She goes to work five days a week. She works at a hospital.

[Secretary Collins]

But if he were to come in here or we were to take her over here to the mall, people would come up to her and they'd feel sorry for her.

[Doug Collins]

They'd try to help her, they'd try to open a door.

[Secretary Collins]

They'd try to help her get to what she needs. But if I was to stand up in that same mall and say, folks, I don't know what's wrong, but my mind's broke, we don't look to open.

[Doug Collins]

A door for that person.

[Secretary Collins]

We don't look to run to them. Too much in our time is we're moving away from them. We've got to change the whole scenario here, especially in the VA and our veteran community, for brothers and sisters who we served with, they've got to know it's okay. You're not going to be wrong in reaching out and giving somebody some help. And the person who needs the help needs to see somebody willing to sort of run the mile with if we can get that. That's how I'm going to see results. That's how I'm going to see bottom line. That's how I'm going to see that our vet centers are getting maybe some more people, or I'm going to hear it in the community. I'm going to see it in our judges who are actually seeing these people in front of them because they've crashed their car while they were drunk, they've gotten to a domestic violence situation because.

[Doug Collins]

They didn't know who they were hitting.

[Secretary Collins]

And they were hitting their own kid. This isn't playtime anymore for me.

[Doug Collins]

Sean. We've got to seriously deal with this in this country, and we got to.

[Secretary Collins]

Deal with it with our veterans. So for me, that's the way I'm going to hopefully see it play out.

[Sean]

Did I hear you say that you planned on using nonprofits to help?

[Secretary Collins]

Yes, I'll use anybody that's willing to help. I'll use anybody willing to help. If that's a VSO or one of the big six VSOs or any of the others. If they're willing to get in the game and help and try new ways, I'm ready to help. I'm ready to use nonprofits. I'm ready to use somebody that's willing to come in, and we'll work the barriers and we'll do whatever it takes to get there. Because here's the situation. We're looking at a generation that is not functioning the way we did 20 years ago, even 10, 15 years ago, because they're more influencer driven, they're more socially media driven, they're more. We just saw that in the last presidential election, Donald Trump won because he reached voters who nobody were going after. He was speaking to them on platforms that they had never. They had never heard before. So why would I not use things.

[Doug Collins]

Like this or nonprofits who are, you.

[Secretary Collins]

Know, and I can name the many, but I wouldn't want to forget anybody.

[Doug Collins]

I mean, you got a lot of.

[Secretary Collins]

Them out there that are putting good money to the actual end, putting, you.

[Doug Collins]

Know, lead on the target, so to speak, downrange.

[Secretary Collins]

And they're using very little of it for administrative cost, and we don't do that. So if you've got organizations that have always been doing it, they want to try new ways, I'm all for it. But you've also got to be willing to get in and dig a little.

[Doug Collins]

Bit and know that you don't always have all the answers.

[Sean]

As far as care and some of these other treatments that we're talking about, I mean, is there any way that the VA can partner with somebody other than. Other than, I don't know who you guys partner with? The American Legion. We listed a whole bunch of them that the modern day war fighter veteran does not use anymore. They're all using. We are all using mom and pop nonprofits. So I brought up, you know, how are you guys gonna get. How are you gonna get people into the VA system more and get them to their, to their initial appointments where. Where, where they get their disability?

[Doug Collins]

Yep.

[Sean]

Is it gonna be. It sounds like it's gonna be very bureaucratic and hard to push through. So is. Is there a way to get nonprofits like Veterans Advocacy Services, some type of a grant or give the veterans some type to where they can. Hey, Peggy knows the system. She can get guys through. She can help guys through. She can. I mean, is there a way that the VA can partner with these smaller mom and pop organizations and fund them so that they can get a bigger team and to get more vets pushed through?

[Secretary Collins]

Yeah, look, I think one of the things here is that doing that in such a way that encourages good work. Now, look, some of our VSOs they.

[Doug Collins]

Offer free help will get you through, and I'm not criticizing that in a.

[Secretary Collins]

Situation, but many times they're willing to go through a situation. Why are we having to use so much help? I'm actually attaching it, hopefully attacking it at a different end.

[Doug Collins]

Why do we need, as I said.

[Secretary Collins]

Earlier, the VA whisper, why can't we do this easier? But until then. Until then, yeah. I mean, I'll look at any way I can to help organizations that are helping veterans get the services they need.

[Doug Collins]

Without having to join an organization, without.

[Secretary Collins]

Having to do anything else, just get.

[Doug Collins]

What they have earned.

[Secretary Collins]

And also I can tell you why, okay?

[Sean]

Because it's like I mentioned before, nobody trusts the VA when they go to somebody like Peggy, she's like a protector. Guys like me, just about everybody that's been on the show, that's been to work, they trust her. They know that she's going to protect them through that process. They know that if something goes bad, Peggy's got it. You know what I mean? That's why that's happening.

[Secretary Collins]

And that's where we got to start.

[Doug Collins]

Rebuilding trust in a system that has.

[Secretary Collins]

I can't explain this enough.

[Doug Collins]

The frustration I have with a lot, a lot of people out of that 480,000, there's many, many, many, many dedicated people who want to help our veterans, period. Okay. They are, I promise them as Secretary of va, that they will not have a better advocate for the good work that they do and to do it right, to fight to make sure we're doing what we need to do. But I'm also not going to tolerate status quo. I'm also not going to tolerate lower standards. We're going to have higher standards. We're going to push this up.

[Secretary Collins]

But at the same point in time, it's going to take a holistic look.

[Doug Collins]

At everything that we're doing.

[Secretary Collins]

It can't simply be how do we.

[Doug Collins]

Fix the third party helpers here, how.

[Secretary Collins]

Do we fix the system itself? Instead of me having to hire a.

[Doug Collins]

Driver to get me to the grocery store because I don't know how to.

[Secretary Collins]

Drive, how about we make it better where I learn how to drive myself? And I think that's going to be, look, but again, there's going to be parties and equities. That, that's not the way they've done it. That's not the way they do their business model. Because if they have people that come to them, they either, you know, get help from outside agencies or other stuff. I'm finding a whole different world that I'm just getting into the background of how they, you know, how we're working this stuff. And folks, if you've earned a benefit, take your benefit, you've earned the benefit. But also there's a lot of encouragement to go back and go back And I think that frustrates a lot of veterans.

[Doug Collins]

And you've heard this like I have.

[Secretary Collins]

I want it to be known. Veterans are not victims. We're not. We chose. We went into the profession.

[Doug Collins]

We've done that. And now we're many of us, and.

[Secretary Collins]

You and others you've talked about, we may have conditions now, we may have such that have cost us in that time of service. And that's why the system was set up, is to say, okay, we're going to do something. You know, the history of the VA was really set up for our veterans.

[Doug Collins]

Who were outside of cities and outside.

[Secretary Collins]

Of areas where there were not hospitals. The VA was set up because we had so many coming back in from World War I. And then of course, you know, as.

[Doug Collins]

It expanded through World War II, that.

[Secretary Collins]

Wasn'T in areas where hospitals were. So that's how this sort of all started. We just sort of lost our roots a little bit because it's easier just to say, well, it's for the veterans, so let's just throw some money at.

[Doug Collins]

It and let's throw some more people at it, but then let's legislate it to death that it can't get outside.

[Secretary Collins]

These boxes because we want to make.

[Doug Collins]

Sure that we're still in control. That's a big part of government issue that we have, not just the va, but a lot of agencies.

[Sean]

So how would you partner with a nonprofit for that?

[Secretary Collins]

Well, I think there's ways that we can look at that I'm exploring right now.

[Doug Collins]

We can profit, do things together. I can say, look, this is a group that we're meeting with. What's your ideas, bringing those ideas to me? I've already met with several that are saying, we have an example right now that is coming out. Without getting into deep details about that need. They've had issues with data collection. They've had issues with stuff, and it should be something we should willingly be a part of. And for some reason, the VA chose to be a stumbling block there. So it's like, well, I'm now looking at that and saying, no, let's see if we can remove those stumbling blocks. Let's get the data we need.

[Secretary Collins]

Let's make sure we have this out there so that we get good answers. Then there's also ways, again, as we look going ahead, is there ways that.

[Doug Collins]

We remove some of the bureaucratic structure, find ways to then partner with, as you said, could it be through a grant, possibly so. Or other ways to help other organizations help us get better? That's my goal.

[Secretary Collins]

I don't want to simply put out.

[Doug Collins]

This idea that we need a whole nother layer. You've had VSOs out here helping forever, and you've had all these others now just bringing another layer because this group trusts this group better than this one.

[Secretary Collins]

Why don't we actually look at the root cause?

[Doug Collins]

If you came to me and, you know, my. My fingers were turning blue and I was having, you know, I was tingly, and for some reason, it looked like a circulation issue.

[Secretary Collins]

Well, the problem we've had lately is.

[Doug Collins]

Is we just put your hands in warm water, or we get them warm and we rub on them and they get the circulation back in them.

[Secretary Collins]

Instead of realizing, maybe there's a heart problem here, maybe we're not pumping well. Well, I want to get back to the question.

[Doug Collins]

Is the VA heart pumping right?

[Secretary Collins]

Are we putting things into place that.

[Doug Collins]

Help the veteran and not hinder the veteran?

[Secretary Collins]

And are we getting to a place? And I said this in my confirmation. I said, I want us to become a place instead of initially to where we're reactively. No, to a reactively.

[Doug Collins]

Let's get there.

[Secretary Collins]

Yes. Where we're actively saying. Instead of saying, you know, I'm not sure we can. To say. I think there's a way we've got to have that mindset difference. To say, look, you have benefits you've earned. You've had health care you've earned. We're here for a reason, but we're not to make it harder. And I think that's become the adversarial.

[Doug Collins]

System that nobody sort of talks about.

[Secretary Collins]

Here, that it makes it seem. And again, perception.

[Doug Collins]

Before anybody listens to this and screams.

[Secretary Collins]

Oh, that ain't the true world. No, it doesn't matter what I think, you think, or any other group thinks. When the perception is, it's broken. When the perception is, it's bad. And when the perception is I'm going to get told no, then that's the reality. Perception is reality to veterans, and we got to break that.

[Doug Collins]

We got to break that cycle.

[Sean]

What about nonprofits for treatments? There's a lot of nonprofits out there that have. That have great treatment programs that are proven to work. You know, like I had mentioned vets, that's probably the biggest one that I know of that's doing psychedelic stuff. There's Tom Satterley, is a former Delta guy. He's got the All Securist Foundation. Very therapeutic experience, Lots of coaching that's been working. I mean, is there. Is there a way where. Because it sounds, look, I get it. Like, you guys can't just be like, oh, we're doing ibocaine treatments now. I realize that's going to be, that's going to be an act of Congress and the Senate or however it works to get that through. But maybe there's a way where the veteran can. Look, maybe there's a voucher program or something where I want to try this nonprofit. And maybe those nonprofits get.

[Secretary Collins]

There's some certificate, there's something to go through a process, some kind of certified.

[Sean]

From the va and the VA says to the veteran, I'm not going to give you the money. But when, when you go to vets, when you go to All Secure foundation, when you go to Veterans Advocacy Services, when you go to any of these nonprofits that are approved, look, you want, you want psychedelic therapy for your traumatic brain injury, we're going to give you the voucher. You pick which nonprofit you want to use it for. When they. And then they email in some kind of a document that says, hey, we sent this person down.

[Ad Read Host]

I mean, that would just, that would.

[Sean]

Streamline it so fast. Because then those, then those non profits don't have to focus so much on fundraising so they can get these guys down there and women down there to do these things or, or, or their therapy or their whatever, and then the VA pays that voucher.

[Doug Collins]

Yep.

[Sean]

Is that a possibility?

[Secretary Collins]

I think it's a possibility. I think everything for me is on.

[Doug Collins]

The table right now.

[Secretary Collins]

And that doesn't mean everything's gonna get approved.

[Doug Collins]

That doesn't mean that it's gonna happen.

[Secretary Collins]

But it for me is, I want to say, okay, if we have these.

[Doug Collins]

Possibilities that we're seeing, the mentoring, the counseling, the treatments especially stuff like that that are working, can we partner with that? Can we. What's stopping me in my organization, either policy wise or statutory wise, what the law says I can and can't spend money on that because there is some of that, and I'm never going to.

[Secretary Collins]

Say there's not, but if it's something we can now try, then. And then I'm going to be looking at this, and we've already started talking to these groups to say, how can that be? I'm going to go to my people and say, tell me what the problem is here.

[Doug Collins]

And if the answer is, well, we can do that better in the va, I'm going to say, no, no, no.

[Secretary Collins]

No, no, you're going to do what you're doing in the va.

[Doug Collins]

But why can't I have people out.

[Secretary Collins]

Here that can go.

[Doug Collins]

Try this. And how do we do it?

[Secretary Collins]

Tell me, as I've changed my entire general counsel, which, by the way, we have a lot of lawyers, I've changed their whole mindset. And to say, don't tell me no, tell me how to get to yes. If I'm asking you to get to a problem, you get me to yes. Because I'm an attorney as well. I can get you to know quicker than you can get me to yes.

[Doug Collins]

Get me to a part where I.

[Secretary Collins]

Can take what you're giving me. And so I'll go to our health people and say the same thing. Get me to yes. Don't tell me the standard line like, we found out something today, we had to go. It happens almost every day. I have to ask the question, Shawn, and this is how it gets very frustrating. I have to ask the question, is this policy from the VA or is.

[Doug Collins]

It statute from Congress?

[Secretary Collins]

Because there's a big difference here. Statute from Congress.

[Doug Collins]

That's a. That's a. That's our red line. Okay?

[Secretary Collins]

I can't.

[Doug Collins]

I have to operate within the law.

[Secretary Collins]

Policy I made. I mean, you know, if there's a.

[Doug Collins]

Policy that you can't have ice cream.

[Secretary Collins]

On Fridays, well, we made the policy. Guess what? You can have ice cream on Fridays. I can change that all day long. So we've got to now delineate, because many times in the va, because they're scared of criticism. They're scared of. Of what members of the Congress or.

[Doug Collins]

The media or unions or anything would say about them, is that they much.

[Secretary Collins]

Rather just say, no, we can't, instead of, well, why? And then if you ask them, well.

[Doug Collins]

The law just won't let us do that.

[Secretary Collins]

Well, policy ain't law.

[Doug Collins]

We can change those kinds of stuff.

[Secretary Collins]

So I'm willing to look at it from all angles to see if we can. And if it's treatments, then I think that's where we're going to have to.

[Doug Collins]

Make sure that we. We're operating. Because I can't bypass a law that says I can't do X treatment and just give you money to go do it somewhere else. I understand. I've got to work that out in Congress. And that's where folks like you and others that can help me, and also working with Bobby Kennedy over at HHS to get some of this stuff approved in different ways. Having a president who would be willing to say, look, let's do whatever we can, that's just when it's going to take the push of the veterans to Say these are the things that are working for us. Doesn't work for everybody, but at least for these, it is working.

[Sean]

I hope you're taking this in because I am the guy you're trying to reach. And not only would that work with the treatment, but it would also help build the trust back within the va. Because guys like me don't trust the va. We just don't. But we do trust Tom Satterley, who is a retired Delta operator. He's seen it all. He has seen it all. And I know that he has my best interest. Cause he's my friend or my friend is his friend. And everybody looks up to guys like Tom or Marcus Capone, who's running vets with the psychedelic stuff. If the VA can be an interim and say, yes, we're aware of what they're doing, they're on our list, we have a partnership with him. We want you to do that here.

[Doug Collins]

Go.

[Sean]

That is a big step in getting guys like me to trust the VA again. And then hopefully all these nonprofits can go away because the problem's solved. And once this shit's all passed through Congress, then we don't even need those nonprofits anymore. Cause hopefully they all wind up going away because the problem's fixed. But in the interim from it's a great way. One, to get the treatment, two, to build the trust back.

[Doug Collins]

Yeah, I think you're right.

[Secretary Collins]

And I think that's what I want to look at.

[Doug Collins]

That's why I'm out in the field.

[Secretary Collins]

That's why we're doing things like this at times. Five weeks feels like I've been there.

[Doug Collins]

Five years and in five weeks I realize, my God, I've been there five weeks.

[Secretary Collins]

And I've had in just. In that amount of time we've had.

[Doug Collins]

To deal with our first start of contract looks where we found we went through 2% of our contracts.

[Secretary Collins]

2%.

[Doug Collins]

And found almost 580 billion. 900 about billion 5 billion. That are contracts that were non mission critical, non mission essential.

[Secretary Collins]

That's just in 2%.

[Doug Collins]

We've had to deal with that. I've had to deal with the probationary firings which helped us get begin this thing get started. We're dealing things and you mentioned it earlier, by the way, we've had the issue of the flags. We've changed that policy so that we're back to one force under the American and pow flag. That's all we're doing. We've take the DEI out. We're doing that today. Even just as we're coming on. We changed the policy on transgender. You're not going to be getting your sex changed at the VA anymore if you're currently in treatment. We're going to continue that what was started before we ever got there, just as the SEC DEFs did in his side. But because we don't want anything bad to happen to somebody who's under those treatments. But you know, from this point on, you're not going to, we're not changing your sex. We're going to treat you with respect and dignity if you come to the VA for your services, but we're just not going to be participating in changing your sex. That's not what our services are for. And everything that we're taking money wise away to, that would take away from money that I could be spending on something else that are helping vets directly who are not even getting primary health care. That's the things that we're looking at. So we're in the process of doing as much of this as we possibly can.

[Secretary Collins]

And so we're taking every new idea.

[Doug Collins]

I'm taking it back. Our team is starting to process it and we're working toward this end of making it a much more accessible, much more idea friendly, if you would VA that restores trust.

[Secretary Collins]

I'm hoping that restoring trust in the VA is me using social media in every possible way I can to tell.

[Doug Collins]

People what's actually going on. And this is that coming on your.

[Secretary Collins]

Show, doing other shows and saying, going into the media and going on a saying, guys, no, I'm not going to let senators lie to you anymore.

[Doug Collins]

I'm not going to let union members, I'm not going to let the newspapers and legacy media tell you stories which.

[Secretary Collins]

They, by the way, can't back up. This is what I've been fighting. I know we're getting closer to the.

[Doug Collins]

Target because the flak's getting a lot heavier because they don't want us on this. Sean, I mean, think about this.

[Secretary Collins]

If you redo this and get it done in any circle of life in.

[Doug Collins]

The federal government or any other area is if you talk about a problem.

[Secretary Collins]

You develop a group that says, this is my problem. And then all along you never really get to solving the problem, then what you've done is you've built a group this perpetuates itself on what the problem. So I don't care what group it is out there, if they're not sort of in many ways trying to either.

[Doug Collins]

Put themselves out of business, so to speak, because they're solved A problem, as you said, or they're perpetuating the problem.

[Secretary Collins]

And then claiming they're the help for that problem.

[Doug Collins]

That's what we're fighting against.

[Secretary Collins]

And I want to make sure that.

[Doug Collins]

We'Re in a position to where veterans understand that they, at least from the secretary level here. And what's going to hopefully permeate down through the ranks is that this is not acceptable where we are. There's a lot of things we do well, and there's a lot of things that frankly, the VA does probably better than private healthcare anywhere else because we.

[Secretary Collins]

Just have more experience in it. But then there's a lot of things that we don't. So why aren't we partnering with the community? Craziest story I heard, we actually have.

[Doug Collins]

Hospitals that are sitting across the street, literally across the street from world class oncology cancer centers, and we're worrying about hiring cancer doctors at the va. I said, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life.

[Secretary Collins]

Just send them across the street and contract the care across the street. I don't need to hire the doctor. They've already got them over here. But that's the kind of thinking, Shawn. That's your thinking. When your mindset is organizational and not.

[Doug Collins]

Patient, or in our case, veteran centric, that's the kind of things you get.

[Sean]

What was your conversation like with Bobby Kennedy about psychedelics?

[Doug Collins]

Eye opening. Because, you know, of course he is very make America healthy again. You know, getting people, you know, getting the food additives out, getting those kind of stuff. And I asked him specifically because we were talking about this, I said psychedelics, because he's, you know, his agency would have some say in some, some, you know, the studies and stuff on that.

[Secretary Collins]

And it was really interesting.

[Doug Collins]

Bobby starts talking about this and he says, one, he said, I was a heroin addict. He said, putting stuff in your body. He said, for me to begin to talk about, you know, having something put in my body to go fix. He said, I'm just. He said, I'm just. That's just nowhere close for me, he said, because of my past. He said, but then he wanted to explain a family member of his, child of his who had an experience using psychedelics that changed his life drastically. And he said, I would have never thought this, would have never saw sort of, I would let him explain the way he sees it. But he said, this is working. He said, I've changed my mind about this because he said, I actually see it happening and see it work. And he said, in my own flesh and blood. And I think that's the part that for me began to be exciting a little bit.

[Secretary Collins]

And to see, here's someone who is.

[Doug Collins]

So sensitive to those issues of medication. And one of the things too is, and I think you see this as.

[Secretary Collins]

Well, the answer to people, many times.

[Doug Collins]

If they're having episodes, just this idea that, the idea is that you can medicate them to health is a problematic to me, I just believe it is.

[Secretary Collins]

It doesn't mean that medicines don't work.

[Doug Collins]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying go stop your medication. I'm not saying don't give them. But is there other ways to help in that regard that can reduce that dependency? And if we can, that'd be great. So Bobby's the same way.

[Secretary Collins]

So for us, it was.

[Doug Collins]

I got a partnership now that he and I are going to continue to work on from the research side and from the other Also, hopefully bringing DoD involved a little bit in this as well, because that's part of our problem, Sean. We hadn't even really talked about this. The transition from DoD to civilian, or what we would term VA, our side is really bad. We don't do this well. And it's not just the VA health or VA benefit, not just the benefit. We're not giving a lot of our young service members and even older service members the transition that they need. We send them through the programs, you do the briefings, you've been there.

[Secretary Collins]

And is it really working? And the answer has to be that.

[Doug Collins]

Probably it's not working like it should because we're seeing too many people end up in suicidal issues. We're seeing too much end up homelessness issues or financial breakdowns, marriage breakdowns. Because as much as for those of us in the military who can gripe about the structure, at times you take away the structure. And even the harshest rebels, you know, who rebelled against structure would say, I need that structure. So I think that's where it's really changed for me in looking at how we do this and how we go about it. So, again, having partners like that is going to be, whether it be at dod, whether it be at HHS or, you know, with us at the VA is going to be very important moving forward.

[Sean]

What is the plan like with psychedelics? What is the plan moving forward? How does it get introduced into the va? What needs to happen?

[Secretary Collins]

Well, the first thing we're going to.

[Doug Collins]

Do is, and I'm getting this information now. Again, this is part of this. I've already had a few who have came in who've actually talked about it, who want to talk about it some more. And then we got this study that's being done in conjunction up in New York. I want to see if there is a possibility to expand that program. Where is it right now? Again, some of this I'm getting and again, I'm not trying to be anything evasive here. I've got to get the knowledge of what we're doing and what we have not done.

[Secretary Collins]

So I'm going to get that information.

[Doug Collins]

And see I know what the program you're talking about. I've heard about it as well. So let's get data on that, have our people start reaching out across the board to say, okay, what is out there? Then we've got to also then take that and look at what is the structural limitations that I have. What is the VA structural problems to either entering into a larger study or entering into a trial basis or basically possibly even as you said, early voucher funding or whatever that may be. What are my structural limitations that Congress has put on me? There is there structural limitations that says you can use X dollars for this, but you can't use X dollars for that? Then if there is and we find enough evidences in our place to do it, then I'm going to go to Congress, I'm going to go to the House, the House Veterans Affairs Committee, I'm going to go to the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee and then I'm going to go to the leadership and say, look, these are things that I need changed.

[Secretary Collins]

You all may not be able to.

[Doug Collins]

Agree on a lot of things here.

[Secretary Collins]

But these are some things I'm hopefully.

[Doug Collins]

You can agree on.

[Secretary Collins]

Give me the statutory ability, even if you want to do it on a.

[Doug Collins]

Limited basis to start off with, I'll take that so that I can actually start trying.

[Secretary Collins]

If I find out I don't have.

[Doug Collins]

Some of the statutory limitations, then I want to know what policy wise may be hindering this or is there a policy that can make sure that we're working with partners to do this? Now again, you said it earlier, the fiduciary role I have I take very seriously. You get close to a vet, you get close to. And Sean, you may have heard me say this already in this discussion. I call them my vets and my employees. I don't do that to belittle do that. It's personalized to me.

[Secretary Collins]

So if you get close to them, we're going to make sure you're doing it right.

[Doug Collins]

My Fiduciary duty is I got to make sure that no matter how great you think your program is, I got to make sure that we're not opening something up that nobody else has seen. And that's just due diligence kind of thing. So we're going to make that happen. One of the things that was concerning me and almost a sidetracked of what we're talking about here, is there's a lot of residential treatment facilities in the private sector now that because of wait times for some mental health issues that are now popping up. Okay, I got no problem with us. And Congress is sort of backing this up and we're putting some more money in there for it. But one of the concerns is, have we created a cottage industry for this now? Because, look, money in D.C. is like water on a pavement. It's going to go to its lowest part. It's going to find its way out.

[Secretary Collins]

Out.

[Doug Collins]

Okay? So if all of a sudden people hear there's money in this, then they're going to be. There's always going to rise to meet that demand. But is that demand always good? No, it's not, because they're doing it quickly. They're doing it for the money. They're doing it for the possibility. Not every one of them, but probably some. So we're having to deal with that right now in those kind of programs and I'm having to deal with our folks to say, are we making sure that if we're using these, are they up to standard that we need to be at? Because if we don't, then we're going to be giving money to things that aren't working and in the end, hurting us in the long run. I think that's something that I've got to be aware of. So for me, it really goes down to that. That's where we're already starting. We're going to have more meetings as we go about this to make sure we're getting the information and as quickly as possible start to find those solutions that we can do something with.

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[Sean]

Would advocacy help at all? Does it help you to get veterans that have been through X, Y and Z treatments in front of Congress to vouch?

[Doug Collins]

Yeah, it never hurts. It never hurts to do that because.

[Secretary Collins]

Again, the I've said this for years.

[Doug Collins]

The best spokesman for anything is a satisfied customer. And I think that's the part. And the recognition that it may or may not be for everybody, but for me, this worked. And so in conjunction with what hopefully we're going to do over the next few weeks and maybe a couple months is seeing what are our limitations, beginning the process to say, hey, this has worked for me. I'm not sure where we're at in the process, but. Mr. Congressman. Ms. Congressman or Madam Senator.

[Secretary Collins]

Senator, I want you to know this has worked for me.

[Doug Collins]

I just want to give you this information and I would appreciate if, you know, help the secretary find us a way to this. I believe this could help others. That's always a good. I would never turn anybody down to talk about what they have.

[Sean]

The reason I'm asking is earlier you're talking about how media is attacking you about this stuff. And so would a hearing with a thousand. I mean you're talking to the largest veteran population in the world right now on this show. And so would it help if there was some type of a hearing at Congress and you brought in a thousand vets that have been through different treat whatever you're advocating for change wise to bring in people that has actually worked for in front of Congress televised. Here it is. Media put this on.

[Doug Collins]

Yeah, I think we could. I think that's something definitely working with Congress and working with the two committees in particular to say as we go forward, here's things that we want to emphasize and some of that's been done a little bit, but I think it could be done more. I'm not going to downplay that there's not been an interest in Congress about this. But it's not just the VA Committee there, it's the Energy and Commerce, which does a lot of the health care stuff and everything else. So there's different ways. But yeah, I think those are definitely ways if we can get partnership with the Congress to say are there better ways to do this? And frankly, I think it'll be a.

[Secretary Collins]

Republican and Democrat coming together on it.

[Doug Collins]

I think you're going to see both parties be willing to look at stuff that work.

[Secretary Collins]

You're going to have some on both.

[Doug Collins]

Ends who say, no, we're not going to touch this or no, this is bad, but you're going to have enough.

[Secretary Collins]

In the middle to say, well, let's.

[Doug Collins]

At least listen to it. So I think as we progress in the next little bit with our information and then working with Chairman Boston, the House and the committee and Chairman Moran and the other side side to say, hey, we've got some ideas here. Is this something we could get you to take a look at? We can make sure you have all the witnesses you want in dealing with this. I think it'd be definitely something.

[Secretary Collins]

Now I'm not going to also fool anybody.

[Doug Collins]

You start dealing with everybody's sort of piece of the pie out there, nonprofits.

[Secretary Collins]

VSOs, everybody starts shuffling, you're going to make a lot of people nervous on because again, you're dealing in livelihood, so to speak, with stuff that they're doing.

[Doug Collins]

And how they've done it and do.

[Secretary Collins]

We need to change and not change I'm just not bought and sold to anybody. I'm bought and sold to the veteran.

[Doug Collins]

Getting the help that they need and not dying anymore. So, look, this is where we got to have it.

[Secretary Collins]

And right now, the bigger fights that.

[Doug Collins]

We'Ve got to have is getting a structural basis. These are things that we can work on, but bringing it back to where we sort of started. This whole thing is I've got to work on getting the VA in the.

[Secretary Collins]

Best possible shape it can be to.

[Doug Collins]

Actually do its mission. And right now, we're probably a little more than probably. We are heavy in where our allocation of employees are, where allocation and where our contracts have been spent and how the money is being spent and should be spent differently. Those are the things that we're working on very hard right now. But again, when you got Congress, who has put this money out there, telling everybody it's going to work, but the reality is it's not, they're going to be very hesitant to be told that what they did was wrong or to do it better. And so we're fighting those battles right now that are keeping me away from dealing with some of these other issues on how can we find new and inventive ways to do things. How can we actually try things that haven't been tried before? So I'm fighting a bunch of battles on different levels right now, and wherever veterans can help, that's where I would love to have them be a part of this solution.

[Sean]

Man, it's just a damn shame. You got the entire veteran population that's screaming, we need help. This is how you help us. And then you got the fucking bureaucrats that are getting in the way that are slandering whatever's happening in the media. And it's just. I think that's what makes it so frustrating, is we know what we need and we know what we want, and we can't get it done because some fucking politician in D.C. who didn't ever step a foot on a fucking combat ever, never is making the decisions for us, and it pisses us off. And, you know, but earlier you had mentioned about community health care.

[Doug Collins]

Yeah.

[Sean]

How does that. How is it working now? And what would you like to see happen?

[Doug Collins]

It's not working as good as it should, I believe. And I think this is where we need to make it easier. And I think. And again, I look at this generationally.

[Secretary Collins]

And this, and I don't mean to.

[Doug Collins]

Put everybody in a pigeonhole here, but we're dealing with different generations of veterans.

[Secretary Collins]

Okay.

[Doug Collins]

I still got World War II veterans, I still got Korean veterans, still have a lot of Vietnam veterans.

[Secretary Collins]

And then there's a sort of that, if you, if you know your history.

[Doug Collins]

Sort of that lull time, that 70s and 80s, that was sort of after the Vietnam, before Gulf War. That is a veteran that is, has a lot of different needs. They were in a lot of different things, but just they're sort of the quiet veteran, that metro in the middle.

[Secretary Collins]

And then you sort of pick up.

[Doug Collins]

With Gulf War and then gwad. Okay, think about that for a second. You go from boomers or not even boomers, you got pre boomers to the greatest generation, through boomers, through X, through everything else. The mentality of those generations and how they interact with the VA is very different. The issues of the older ones are more attracted to the VA centers themselves, the health, the hospitals, the C box. They want that care there. If as they get older, some of them can't drive as far, they can't get that help. So it's more advantageous for them to go to a local eye doctor instead of driving 80 miles to the VA where they've always been forever. That's a help. But then you get into that Gulf War GWOT veteran who has visions of the VA from their moms or dads or from others from the Vietnam era, et cetera, which they don't want any part of that, but they want still the help, especially if they're struggling with financially or something else. They want to have the health care that they need. And by the way, we've got to do a better job. I'm going to take a little turn here for a second. We've got to do a better job at preventive health for veterans. We don't do a very good job at this right now. We're trying, but I've talked to our folks. So my generation and others that we have the issues of health care, mental health, but just the basics of getting our diabetes under control, make sure we're still eating right, make sure we're doing the things that run our cost up long term and also take away quality of life. If we can do that in the VA system, then we're going to not only save money, but we're also going to help people in the long run, too, from losing fingers, losing arms, especially the diabetic stuff. We're two and a half more times than the average population for diabetes. We're much more high propensity for hypertension and blood pressure, cholesterol, those kind of things. Those are areas that we got to fix. But if they're not willing to go into the VA to get it or have been turned off from the VA as you have, then the community care needs to be accessed, in my opinion, more readily. Now, the first thing I'm getting accused of, Sean, and I can tell you right now, somebody listening right now, they say Doug wants to privatize the va. Va? No, I don't. VA will always be there for folks to get care in one way or the other. It's always going to be there. We're not privatizing anything. If I'm paying the bill for you to go to a local doctor that you feel comfortable with and get the care that you need, that's not privatization.

[Secretary Collins]

That's simply being smart and also following the law. The law says we're supposed to, but.

[Doug Collins]

Yet we've also got to deal in the realities that in some of our areas, the private health care, public health, the public hospitals have as much of a problem with finding doctors and nurses and all as we do. And so, like I know down in our part of the world, where I'm from in Georgia, the wait time for mental health and for psychiatry and some of the stuff like that in the private sector is actually longer than it is, unreasonably than it is for the, for the va. So to dump all of a sudden to put a lot of stuff pressure back on communities that can't handle that anyway, we've got to find a balance. That means we have to staff up in areas that helps us get to the points that we need to be. But that's a generational issue. But right now, what's happened, and I'll just tell you candidly, in the last administration, they moved away from that model altogether. They just seemingly turned their back on getting people into the community healthcare. If they chose it, they were trying to keep all of, or as much of it into the VA itself. And if people hadn't figured out why yet, I'll go ahead and break the sad news. It's because if I keep them more in the healthcare, then I can ask for more money. I can keep more people here. Now, there are also things that we do that others don't do, but that's fine. But when you're keeping them from. From the health care, then you're also putting them at risk that if they're not getting the health care out there and they're not coming to see you, then you're not helping them in the way that you should. So that's the way community health should work. That's where our community care program should be. We're going to get it back to where that is more applicable. And there actually is some legislation right now both in the House and the Senate to actually strengthen that by reducing some of the limitations to community care so that it's easier to access. That will help us all in the long run, especially our rural health care and especially our suburban health care, that sort of middle ground healthcare where they're maybe not too far from a health VA center, but they're not close enough and they just want to be in their community bashawn. How many of our generation want to drive 90 miles to a center or a CBOC that they don't know anybody and they go in and their peer group is much older than them probably.

[Secretary Collins]

And they're gonna sit around and say I'll just go to my doctor down.

[Doug Collins]

The street or I'll go to the quick care and just if I need something or I'll just keep doing this myself.

[Sean]

Everybody wants to be able to do that.

[Doug Collins]

So that's what we're looking at.

[Secretary Collins]

So that's what it.

[Sean]

So are you saying it will be a choice? You can either go to the va, it should be, or you can. Yeah, because that's what I've been advocating.

[Doug Collins]

Yeah, there is, there's choice in there. There's some criteria that's been set up, you know, because again with the mileage and stuff like that. But even in the House and the Senate they're trying to refine those down to where it makes it easier to get that community care.

[Secretary Collins]

And what we're going to, you know.

[Doug Collins]

What I think is probably the result.

[Secretary Collins]

Of some of this, and this is me speaking, just as I think you're.

[Doug Collins]

Going to see as it gets better and better with working with the community and working with the va, you'll start seeing a lot more split care. You'll start seeing some for like instance I want to like say you had orthopedic issues or you had. We got some great of some of our medical centers, especially orthopedic and bone are probably some as good if not better than a lot of the private hospitals. They may go there to get orthopedic issue but they're going to go outside to get their cardio, their cardiac care or they're going to go outside to get their kidney doctor. So you'll have a split model which.

[Secretary Collins]

Is exactly what the law envisions. So you don't have to be stuck.

[Doug Collins]

To one or the other. You get the best care you can at the way that you want it got. But yet we've got to get to a system in which we take out the middle people, we take out the processes, we get it streamlined into where VA has the control it needs to make sure fiduciary. We're doing what we're supposed to do, but not the control to where we keep it ourselves. There's a big difference there. There's a big difference in signing off and agreeing. This is the condition. I see this. I'm going to give this person a referral instead of saying, well, I see this condition, but let's see if we can get them back in, in two weeks to talk to them again, those kind of things. I'll just say this. In the coming weeks, you're going to see some more of this coming out from our office. I would just say stay tuned. It's bigger than what I can even describe here. We got some other stuff coming out. And I'll just say, just bear with us there. We're working through this community care issue to overcome what we've had in the last four years.

[Sean]

That sounds good. That sounds real reassuring. What about the burn pits? You know, a lot of. I mean, there's all these weird cancers popping up. It's like every day I got a new buddy that's got cancer that died of cancer, that's got stage four cancer. You know, nobody knows what it's from. A lot of people think it's from the burn pits or the vicinity around high explosives, breathing in that shit. Especially in Afghanistan, you know, the burning tires to keep warm, we breathe that in. I remember spitting in the sink and my spit was gray because I had breathed in so much crap. I mean, it sounds like there's something going on there with the burn pits.

[Doug Collins]

Yeah, the PACT act was designed to address some of that.

[Secretary Collins]

The problem is, look, the packed hat.

[Doug Collins]

Was a good step into dealing with this. Look, I'm a burn pit guy as well. I mean, I was at Balad every day in our, you know, while I was there. You'd wake up in the morning when I first got there. I don't know if it was your experience.

[Secretary Collins]

I got there and I thought, why is it so hazy around here?

[Doug Collins]

You know, I thought it was an environmental. I'd never been in the desert kind of thing, so I thought.

[Secretary Collins]

But then I got to realizing it was just the constant flow of the burn pit area that was going over our bill, our hutches over there. That's just what it was. All the time it was there all the time. I remember riding by it and you.

[Doug Collins]

Could see it burning.

[Secretary Collins]

It reminded me of growing up in.

[Doug Collins]

North Georgia where everybody in our Neighborhood had the 55 gallon drums and had to bottom out. And you throw your trash in there and you burn your trash.

[Secretary Collins]

I mean I smell the same smell and worse that I was smelling in the burn pit that was used to.

[Doug Collins]

Be when we were burning plastics and crap and everything in the trash bin.

[Secretary Collins]

So yeah, I think there's a lot to go on there. What my concern was is they sort.

[Doug Collins]

Of took this from the 9 11, if you remember, timeframe wise here we had a lot of exposure. So President Biden at the time got up in the State of the Union said we're going to address this.

[Secretary Collins]

Well then all of a sudden they.

[Doug Collins]

Threw a bill together which had already been worked on, but they sort of.

[Secretary Collins]

Threw out everything that had been worked.

[Doug Collins]

On and threw this bill together. That.

[Secretary Collins]

Is part good but also very rushed.

[Doug Collins]

Let's just. I'll be kind today. Okay.

[Secretary Collins]

It was rushed and then thrust upon.

[Doug Collins]

The VA to say here, do this.

[Secretary Collins]

Did you know part of that bill?

[Doug Collins]

I bet most people didn't know.

[Secretary Collins]

Do you know that that bill actually.

[Doug Collins]

Requires the VA to test every veteran? The test of were you near a burn pit? Were you near toxic chemicals? Were you near. They asked those basic questions question that I'm supposed to ask every veteran. I mean there's over 18 million, 19 million veterans in this country. Only 9 million roughly have been touched in any way by the VA. How.

[Secretary Collins]

Am I supposed to find the 9 million if they don't want to be found? But that's the kind of thing that was put in the bill and I actually asked one. I happened to be in a meeting the other day with someone who actually wrote that bill and they were nice about it, but they didn't really have a good answer. And there's no way for me to reach these people. So I say all that to say.

[Doug Collins]

That'S the conduit around PACT act was that looking for the diseases. Right now we have basically permissively allowed almost every condition under that that if you have then it's going to be found under the PACT act and then how treatment goes from there will be just determined on what like everything. Cancers of the head, which technically there is no such thing. Cancers of the head. It's specifics in there but we have a terminology of cancers of the head. Okay. I mean we've turned in the previous secretary added in. I think it was the previous Secretary and I confirmed. But these presumptive conditions were added for hypertension and prostate and everything else. Okay, I get it.

[Secretary Collins]

But. But we're just sort of at this point just say if you've been near.

[Doug Collins]

A burn pin or you can answer one of these questions, you're just going to get health care, which is in some ways burdening the system a little bit. And the benefit side, the disability side of this.

[Secretary Collins]

But if that's what the intent of.

[Doug Collins]

Congress to do is just basically give everybody disability checks for that, then that's what you're going to have to look at going forward. So for me, it's saying, okay, what are the real medical consequences of this? What can we do to treat this? This was also something my brother up. That was Bobby Kennedy and I actually talked about as well. But we talked about it from a vaccine perspective. But also some others is just saying, how can we look at these conditions and begin to know that what we're seeing and the treatments are effective to what we have? And I think that's the question sometimes never asked. So for me, I'm having to live with Paktac and say, how do we fix it? It's a good thing to get these people in who have these cancers, have these, this to make sure we're treating them, getting the health care they need in the community or with us. So that's really where for the burn pit people and for the toxic exposure people, we're keeping that commitment. And contrary to lies, we didn't cut any toxic exposure funds. We actually, the Congress just actually added in more money in this latest CR that was just done. So again, I cannot tell you the magnitude of lies that I deal with on a daily basis. Now we got a big one coming in too, and not a lot. I can tell you as much about this. We're trying to implement that it's the Dole Act, Elizabeth Dole act, which is going to deal with caregivers at home and other things that have been building up over time. I'm now trying to figure out how do I do that and process it properly, because some of it we were not funded for. Here's another trick. And look, I've been in Congress, so I participated fortunately in this is we pass stuff, but we don't fund it. And so we just expect the va, which, by the way, you're complaining about how much money we have now, you can plan, but now you're telling me to do something that could be literally billions of dollars and I'm having to find the money.

[Secretary Collins]

So this is, you know, but I'm having a ball. It sounds like it because I believe in what I'm doing.

[Sean]

So with all these cuts, it's was it. 83,000 jobs right now are on the line at the VA.

[Doug Collins]

There's about 15%, so give or take around. That's what we're looking at.

[Sean]

And so that money that's going to those jobs that just won't disappear, that will get. No, that will get reallocated into something else. Like healthcare.

[Secretary Collins]

Yeah, that's what I mean.

[Doug Collins]

That would be what we fight for, is to get reallocated.

[Secretary Collins]

Some will. Some, you know, if you get to.

[Doug Collins]

The point, probably would go to something differently. I'm not gonna say all will just stay in all that, you know, especially with what we got going. That might be my preference. But again, also is the workforce slimming and the monies that we can spend going to where it needs to go. And I think that's going to be the big key for us, is making sure that now, again, one of the things is Congress again holds purse strings. In actuality, they are the ones that pass the budgets and put the monies in there and everything else. So we've got to make the decision so that we do have cuts. We do have things that don't continue on in our budgets. Because the one thing we've not talked about and we've had senior military leaders and others, our national debt and national and deficits are a national security issue. And we can't keep going the way we're going in this. The VA will always be one that's going to probably be looked at is to make us as efficient as we possibly can. And we're going to do that and we're going to do our part. We're already well ahead and working that way. But also I have to be, as I've told our staff many times, I've told worked at the White House and everybody else is. I said, look, we're going to do in a measured way because at the end of the day, I'm dealing with people. I'm the only agency up there that has to deal with cuts, but actually also has to look at doctors and nurses and families in the face and say, we're taking care of your health care. No other agency has to do that. But Pete, DOD is about as close as I would say that comes to having to deal with the sort of real viral side of people in the decisions that he makes. Life or death kind of decision. Where does my son or daughter get sent kind of thing. I'm on the other end of it, in which we got to be very careful where we make it so that we're not hurting veterans and we're giving them the ability to get the disability benefits or the other benefits they've earned. So I take it very seriously. But do I think we can get a large amount of that number? You better believe it. I do believe it, because I know.

[Secretary Collins]

And one of the reasons I know is because everybody that's coming up who's.

[Doug Collins]

Saying, oh, well, all the wait times are going to go up and all.

[Secretary Collins]

The backlog is going to go up, well, I just have four years of proof that tens of billions of dollars.

[Doug Collins]

And tens of thousands of people didn't solve your problem.

[Secretary Collins]

So why don't we try a little differently here? Let's give them a better organization. Here's a better thing. Like I said earlier, Give me an.

[Doug Collins]

HR tool that actually lets me know how many people I have and where they're at. Give me a computer system that can begin to screen disability benefits and others to help the actual person so that.

[Secretary Collins]

We can take the easy ones, the tinnitus and everything. Let's take those off the table. Let's quit griping and going paperwork and paperwork about that. Let's take the easies off the shelf so that we can get to the.

[Doug Collins]

Harder ones to determine their level of disability.

[Secretary Collins]

Let's do things with AI, never taking a human component out of it because there's always, especially with veterans, there's complex cases. So I'm always going to have the person there to go through that and make sure that we're getting what we.

[Doug Collins]

Need to get and not over give.

[Secretary Collins]

But not under give either. But why don't we use computer and AI training to actually say, let's do this better and do it quicker? I'm all for doing things better and quicker, Shawn. Look, what's the old saying?

[Doug Collins]

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. That's where we got to be here.

[Secretary Collins]

And I'm committed to doing that. I'm asking questions that others may have asked.

[Doug Collins]

I'm just going to be doing it.

[Secretary Collins]

Differently because as I've told all our folks, I sit here with you as.

[Doug Collins]

About as content an individual as I can be. I've had 59, almost 60 years of life. I've had the experiences of being around the world, sitting with presidents and kings and doing things in congress and being with a lawyer, helping people in court, standing beside them on their worst day and helping them out. I'VE had the privilege of pastoring a little church that grew into a little bit bigger church.

[Secretary Collins]

I've had a wife that's been with.

[Doug Collins]

Me for 36, almost 37 years. We've been together 38. I have three kids.

[Secretary Collins]

I'm at the point in my life where I want to help others get better. I'm at that point. I want to turn around and say, for all this experience and where I've been, I want to make sure we're doing something right. I get as much joy out of somebody that's working for me coming to me and saying, hey, we got this done. That's the celebration for me, because I've really come to the conclusion over years of working this and believing this one statement that if I help enough people in life get what they want, I'll get what I want. Well, now we're in a place to really make this happen. So for me, I don't know what.

[Doug Collins]

Will happen if I get to stay.

[Secretary Collins]

For four years in this. I don't care. I get four years to make a difference in the life of my brothers and sisters and war fighters that gave something to this country. And now my job is to make sure that that country, who promised them things, who set it up, actually does it. I can't think of a better calling. And I'll take the arrows, I'll take the slings.

[Doug Collins]

I'll go to Congress and have the.

[Secretary Collins]

Other side of the aisle yell at me and tell me I'm bad. That's fine. You come at me because I'm going to do the best I can with.

[Doug Collins]

What I have, with what they gave me.

[Secretary Collins]

But the one thing about it, Sean, is this. You're not going to kick around the VA anymore without offering solutions. You're not going to scare my veterans, and you're not going to scare my.

[Doug Collins]

Employees without this secretary calling you out when you are wrong.

[Secretary Collins]

And I've seen it so much in.

[Doug Collins]

The last few weeks.

[Secretary Collins]

Weeks, it's disgusting. I've had sitting senators lie repeatedly about.

[Doug Collins]

Who was let go.

[Secretary Collins]

I've had sitting House members and senators lie repeatedly about, as I said earlier, appointments getting put off, surgery is getting put off. Delays are already going up. There's been three weeks when 2400 people who never touched any of those things were laid off. And you're telling me this is the problem? Where have you been for 10 years? When Gao says that we're as screwed up as we have been, don't tell me that anymore. We may not get everything. I want to get accomplished. I may not be able to help every veteran but we're damn sure going to try because it's not going to happen anymore.

[Doug Collins]

Tired of it.

[Sean]

Good for you. I think that's the perfect place to end this and glad you're in there. I hope these changes happen buddy.

[Doug Collins]

I'm looking forward to the folks like you and others we're going to have my know perfect thank you appreciate thank you thank you.

[G]

NBA veteran Jim Jackson takes you on the court. You get a chance to dig into my 14 year career in the NBA and also get the input from the people that will be joining Charles Barkley.

[Secretary Collins]

I'm excited to be on your podcast man it's an honor.

[G]

Spike Lee entrepreneur filmmaker Academy award winner Nixon now you see I got you but also how sports brings life passion, music all of this together. The Jim Jackson show part of the Rich Eisen Podcast network Follow and listen on your favorite platform.