Shawn Ryan Show Episode #188: Leigh & Robert Bortins - Why Parents Are Ditching Public Schools for Homeschooling
Host: Shawn Ryan
Guests: Lee and Robert Bortins
Release Date: April 3, 2025
In this compelling episode of the Shawn Ryan Show, former Navy SEAL and CIA Contractor Shawn Ryan sits down with Lee and Robert Bortins, the dynamic mother-son duo behind the global homeschooling movement, Classical Conversations. The discussion delves deep into the rising trend of homeschooling, the shortcomings of public education, and the transformative power of a classical Christian education.
1. The Surge in Homeschooling Post-COVID
Timestamp: [00:00-05:50]
Lee and Robert Bortins open the conversation by addressing the significant increase in homeschooling since the onset of COVID-19. Lee provides insightful statistics, noting that before the pandemic, there were about 2 million homeschoolers in the U.S. Post-COVID, this number surged to between 6 to 8 million, with recent figures stabilizing around 3.5 to 5 million. This surge reflects a broader movement where families seek more control over their children's education, moving away from traditional public schooling.
Notable Quote:
Lee Bortens [00:32]: "We've seen research that says one out of eight kids of the current generation will be homeschooled at least one year."
2. Critique of the Public Education System
Timestamp: [00:00-05:50]
The Bortins articulate a strong critique of the public education system, tracing its origins to Horace Mann and the Prussian model. They argue that public schools were designed to erode individualism and Christianity, ultimately promoting a Marxist ideology. Robert emphasizes the detrimental effects of state-controlled education, highlighting a drastic decline in literacy rates from 90% to a mere 9%.
Notable Quote:
Robert Bortens [02:39]: "The box itself, the public education, is Marxist. Every generation, we've accepted another form of socialism since the first universal socialist program."
3. The Classical Conversations Approach
Timestamp: [20:07-82:00]
Lee and Robert introduce Classical Conversations, a homeschooling program they founded, which has empowered over 125,000 students worldwide. The program emphasizes a classical Christian education, focusing on the trivium of grammar, dialectic, and rhetoric. They outline their structured approach:
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Foundations Program (K-6):
Students attend community sessions once a week, engaging in subjects like math, history, science, grammar, and Latin. Public speaking and memorization play significant roles. -
Challenges (A-D):
As students progress, they undertake challenges that build on ownership, discipline, freedom, and leadership. These challenges include mock trials, protocol events, poetry cafes, and senior theses. -
Impact on Parents and Community:
The program not only educates children but also empowers parents, offering entrepreneurial opportunities through licensing and community leadership roles.
Notable Quotes:
Robert Bortens [66:57]: "The trivium of grammar, dialectic, and rhetoric is what makes classical education accessible to anybody."
Lee Bortens [25:43]: "By having a tutor and other parents around, you don't have any conflict issues because parents are actively involved."
4. Socialization in Homeschooling
Timestamp: [90:21-102:00]
Addressing common concerns about socialization, the Bortins argue that homeschooling fosters genuine social interactions rather than repetitive, superficial engagements found in public schools. They highlight real-life experiences where homeschoolers engage with their community through sports, arts, and service activities, building strong, meaningful relationships.
Notable Quote:
Lee Bortens [99:52]: "They have friends who are also homeschoolers, private schoolers, and public schoolers, engaging in diverse activities like robotics and sports."
5. Curriculum and Teaching Methods
Timestamp: [130:10-165:05]
The Bortins provide an in-depth look into the Classical Conversations curriculum:
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Memorization and Critical Thinking:
Students memorize thousands of facts, enhancing their vocabulary and analytical skills. Advanced projects like mock trials and senior theses develop critical thinking and public speaking abilities. -
Integration of Subjects:
Subjects are interwoven with historical and literary contexts, ensuring that learning is holistic and deeply rooted in Western civilization's best traditions. -
Adaptability and Practical Skills:
The curriculum adapts to modern needs, teaching students how to learn autonomously and apply their knowledge practically, whether in technology, business, or other fields.
Notable Quotes:
Robert Bortens [134:36]: "We teach them how to ask good questions, where to find original sources, and how to engage with experts."
Lee Bortens [132:24]: "Memorization is just an expansion of what a parent's doing at home. It teaches them to humble themselves and ask good questions."
6. Parental Involvement and Support Systems
Timestamp: [84:04-129:11]
A cornerstone of the Classical Conversations model is the active involvement of parents. The program trains parents to become effective educators and mentors, fostering a supportive community where parents can collaborate, share resources, and assist each other in overcoming challenges.
Notable Quotes:
Robert Bortens [112:00]: "If you're a curious parent, you're going to have curious kids."
Lee Bortens [117:58]: "Our community network allows parents to support each other, ensuring that no child is left behind."
7. Addressing Challenges in Homeschooling
Timestamp: [137:27-178:25]
The Bortins candidly discuss the logistical and emotional challenges of homeschooling, such as managing dual incomes, maintaining discipline, and ensuring comprehensive education across multiple children. They offer practical solutions, emphasizing flexibility, community support, and the importance of shifting parental mindsets from consumerism to intentional education.
Notable Quotes:
Lee Bortens [168:05]: "We don't allow technology during community days to ensure that learning remains focused and distraction-free."
Robert Bortens [172:00]: "Homeschool education is about building a community of families dedicated to raising their children with Christian classical values."
8. Future Goals and Expansion
Timestamp: [173:10-188:48]
Looking ahead, the Bortins aim to expand Classical Conversations' reach and influence. They are developing a Master's of Classical Studies in partnership with Southeastern University in Florida, enabling parents to earn advanced degrees while actively participating in their children's education. Their vision includes creating a robust alumni network to foster leadership and further the movement globally.
Notable Quotes:
Robert Bortens [176:08]: "We want to help parents become mentors and leaders, ready to educate the next generation effectively."
Lee Bortens [177:37]: "Our goal is to hear the well-done, faithful servant story in our graduation ceremonies."
9. Definitions and Philosophical Underpinnings
Timestamp: [187:01-187:56]
The Bortins clarify key definitions to encapsulate their educational philosophy:
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Classical Education:
Emphasizes the trivium—grammar (foundation of knowledge), dialectic (critical thinking), and rhetoric (effective communication). It focuses on deep, meaningful learning rather than superficial coverage of broad topics. -
Homeschooling:
Defined not merely as bringing school home but as a holistic approach where parents and children engage in continuous learning and community building, fostering both academic and personal growth.
Notable Quotes:
Robert Bortens [191:18]: "Classical education is the fundamentals of learning, allowing children to think deeply and articulate effectively."
Lee Bortens [187:56]: "It's a process that you go through, picking the best materials that have stood the test of time and teaching children to learn and think critically."
10. Conclusion
Timestamp: [189:24-End]
Shawn Ryan wraps up the interview by commending Lee and Robert for their dedication and impactful work in transforming homeschooling through Classical Conversations. He acknowledges the profound difference their approach makes in developing confident, critical-thinking individuals poised to lead and excel in various fields.
Notable Quote:
Sean Ryan [188:54]: "It sounds like it's the perfect way to perfecting the fundamentals of learning so that you can go anywhere and learn anything you want."
Final Thoughts
This episode offers an enlightening exploration into the motivations behind the homeschooling movement and presents a robust alternative to public education. Through the Bortins' experiences and the structured approach of Classical Conversations, listeners gain valuable insights into building a meaningful, effective education system rooted in classical principles and Christian values.
For parents grappling with educational choices, this conversation underscores the potential of homeschooling to foster academic excellence, personal growth, and strong community ties, all while maintaining control over their children's moral and intellectual development.