#193 John Stryker Meyer - MACV-SOG: The Secret War in Vietnam

Summary

Podcast Summary: Shawn Ryan Show Episode #193 - John Stryker Meyer: MACV-SOG: The Secret War in Vietnam

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Introduction and Guest Background

Timestamp: [00:53] - [07:06]

In Episode #193 of the Shawn Ryan Show, host Shawn Ryan welcomes John Stryker Meyer, a decorated U.S. Army Special Forces Green Beret veteran. John served in the covert Military Assistance Command, Vietnam Studies and Observation Group (MACV-SOG) during the Vietnam War, conducting top-secret missions across North Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia. John is the author of "Across the Fence: The Secret War in Vietnam" and co-author of "On the Ground: The Secret War in Vietnam in SOG Chronicles." He also hosts the podcast "SOGCast," which delves into untold stories of SOG combat veterans and their heroic aviators.

Notable Quote:

"For those who fought for it, life has a special flavor that the protected will never know." – Shawn Ryan ([09:03])

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Early Life and Path to Special Forces

Timestamp: [11:51] - [29:10]

John Stryker Meyer shares his upbringing in Trenton, New Jersey, where he grew up on his father's milk truck. Raised in a devout Christian household, John developed a strong sense of discipline and community from an early age. His father, a milkman and church musician, and his mother, a choir director and piano teacher, instilled in him values that would later shape his military career.

John's interest in joining the military was sparked by his desire for rigorous training and a means to avoid the draft. Influenced by war movies and the legacy of the Green Berets in popular culture, he enlisted in the Army and underwent basic and advanced training. His proficiency in Morse code and commitment led him to be assigned to MACV-SOG, a decision he credits to both personal determination and divine intervention.

Notable Quotes:

"Mission-oriented to hurt the communists... we had mixed emotions dealing with the CIA." – John Stryker Meyer ([28:46])

"The only way I survived the secret war was through the grace of the Lord." – John Stryker Meyer ([11:21])

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Training and Preparation for Vietnam

Timestamp: [29:10] - [41:25]

John describes the intensive training regimen of MACV-SOG, emphasizing the physical and psychological challenges faced by the Green Berets. Training included parachuting, hand-to-hand combat, survival skills, and advanced communication techniques. John highlights the camaraderie and mentorship within the group, particularly the influence of Sergeant First Class Paul Villa Rosa, a seasoned communicator who helped him master Morse code.

John recounts the rigorous selection process and the high standards set by SOG trainers. The training environment fostered resilience and adaptability, preparing the teams for the unpredictable and dangerous missions they would undertake in Southeast Asia.

Notable Quote:

"They did kind of like in the movies... but it's the same." – John Stryker Meyer ([32:37])

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Deployment and Missions in Vietnam

Timestamp: [41:25] - [140:10]

Upon deployment, John Stryker Meyer details his initial experiences in Vietnam, including culture shock, the harsh realities of guerrilla warfare, and the strategic importance of missions aimed at disrupting Communist supply lines along the Ho Chi Minh Trail. He shares harrowing accounts of combat encounters, including the infamous First Major Firefight on October 7, 1968, where his team was nearly overrun by North Vietnamese Army (NVA) forces.

John emphasizes the brutality of the enemy, recounting instances of extreme violence and psychological warfare employed by the NVA to demoralize American troops. Despite facing overwhelming odds, John and his comrades relied on teamwork, tactical air support, and sheer determination to survive missions and accomplish their objectives.

Notable Quotes:

"I killed a man. Don't feel good about it, but you know, that's war." – John Stryker Meyer ([00:00])

"There's no doubt in my mind that the only way I survived the secret war was through the grace of the Lord." – John Stryker Meyer ([11:21])

"You're a dumbass city slicker out there trying to do the right thing by God and country." – John Stryker Meyer ([11:43])

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Challenges and Losses

Timestamp: [140:10] - [160:28]

John openly discusses the psychological toll of combat, including the loss of fellow soldiers and the constant threat of death. He narrates the intense firefights, the agony of witnessing comrades fall, and the relentless pressure to perform under fire. The episode highlights specific missions where John and his team faced ambushes, tight extraction windows, and the devastating impact of enemy tactics designed to exploit vulnerabilities.

He reflects on the camaraderie and brotherhood among the Special Forces, underscoring the emotional and moral challenges they navigated while carrying out their covert operations. John's storytelling provides a visceral portrayal of the secret war's complexities and the personal sacrifices made by those involved.

Notable Quote:

"In my mind, I'll never forget that moment, because by that point, we were on a team. We were tight." – John Stryker Meyer ([131:21])

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Return Home and Post-War Life

Timestamp: [160:28] - [247:05]

After completing his tours, John Stryker Meyer transitions to civilian life, leveraging his experiences into a successful career in journalism. He details his tenure at the Trenton Times and later the San Diego Union, where he continued to pursue stories that mattered, including investigative reporting on significant events like the Kiki Camarena case.

John discusses the challenges of reintegrating into society, maintaining relationships, and coping with the memories of war. He emphasizes the importance of camaraderie and support systems in overcoming the invisible scars left by conflict. His post-war journey underscores the enduring impact of his military service on his personal and professional life.

Notable Quote:

"You have to answer... make sure you're right." – John Stryker Meyer ([26:04])

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Reflections on the Vietnam War and Legacy

Timestamp: [247:05] - [Final]

In concluding the episode, John Stryker Meyer offers his insights on the Vietnam War's strategic failures, the geopolitical ramifications of the MACV-SOG operations, and the personal lessons he garnered from his service. He reflects on the importance of understanding history, honoring the sacrifices of fellow soldiers, and the ongoing relevance of military strategy and intelligence in contemporary conflicts.

John expresses gratitude for surviving the war and the profound connections he formed with his comrades. His narrative serves as both a tribute to the Green Berets' bravery and a cautionary tale about the costs of war.

Notable Quote:

"You have to do the right thing by God and country." – John Stryker Meyer ([211:05])

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Conclusion

John Stryker Meyer's testimony in Episode #193 provides an unfiltered glimpse into the clandestine operations of MACV-SOG during the Vietnam War. His candid recounting of missions, the psychological burden of combat, and his path to resilience offers listeners a comprehensive understanding of the secret war's complexities and the enduring legacy of those who served.

Final Notable Quote:

"But thank you, sir. I appreciate that." – John Stryker Meyer ([246:58])

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Note: The timestamps correspond to the transcript provided and may not align precisely with the actual podcast episode.

Transcript

[John Stryker Meyer]

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[Sean Ryan]

How many enemy combatants do you guys think you.

[John Stryker Meyer]

That day they started stacking up the dead bodies so he could climb up on the bodies so they could shoot down at us.

[Sean Ryan]

So they were using the bodies as a barricade.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah. Men who had been wounded, they would disembowel them their head off, stick their. In the. In the cavity where the bows were. Jeez.

[Sean Ryan]

John Stryker Meyer, welcome to the show.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Honored to be here. Honored to be in the seat. We're legendary. Sarah Superbad have sat previous before me arriving. I'm honored to be here, sir.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, I'm honored to have you.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Thank you.

[Sean Ryan]

It's been a long time coming. We've known each other for what, almost five years now. Five years. Has it been that long?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yes, sir. Cause I saw your podcast first one. Your Sean Ryan's show numero001 with you and Mike Glover. I saw that. I couldn't believe it. I knew Mike because he's Special Forces and we had heard about some of the other Navy SEAL podcasters that were popping up. And at that point, five years ago is when I met Jocko Willink. And I said, who's this Sean Ryan guy? I listened to that show. I was like, oh, my God. I listened to it twice. That was such a gripping, like, a different feel to it, particularly when you and Mike were sitting there talking about how during your mass depresses times, it's like, oh, my God. But really well done.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you.

[John Stryker Meyer]

And I've been a fan ever since. And then I said, if. When we moved to Franklin, we were running in Franklin for a couple of months before we bought our house, and I reached out and you said, yes, get together for breakfast.

[Sean Ryan]

Hell yeah, man. Glad we did.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Me too.

[Sean Ryan]

Glad we did. But, yeah. It's an honor to have you here, John. It really is. I've been saving this. I've been saving this opportunity, and so I've really been looking forward to it. And it's going to be a long day. Hope you're ready.

[John Stryker Meyer]

I'M up for it. Absolutely. You kidding? Because there's other podcasts, but yours is different and it's the details. And even like you and I were talking before here about Tyler and what a great interview and those kind of interviews, that's what's making the new media today in America.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah.

[John Stryker Meyer]

People are turning to that for the truth. And then just your interview with Brett, I mean, I just turned it on for a minute and go, oh, this nice young girl. Look at Ryan. He's doing. He's done this great show here.

[Sean Ryan]

Brett Cooper.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, God.

[Sean Ryan]

I know, right?

[John Stryker Meyer]

I kept listening to it. Anna's listened to it.

[Sean Ryan]

23 years old. Who would have thought?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah. And she graduated from high school when she's 15. I barely got out of high school when I was eight. I know, Me too. It's kind of like this young lady is amazing. So you kept listening to the story, then what she'd been through, and then when she lands at the daily wire, hits the ground running. It's like, Justin. But that's the new media.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Because the old regular media, it's just the majority of them, sad to say, they don't report the facts. Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

But. Well, John, I'm excited, man. I've been. Like I said, I've been wanting to do this for a long time, and I just.

[John Stryker Meyer]

We've been busy.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, we've been busy.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Absolutely.

[Sean Ryan]

And. And I wanted to make sure we developed a friendship before. Before we got you in here. And we definitely did that.

[John Stryker Meyer]

We absolutely did, sir.

[Sean Ryan]

But. So a couple. I want to. This interview is going to be, you know, it's going to be your life story and all about, you know, growing up, Vietnam, post service journalism. We're going to hit all of it. And. And. But also in this interview, I'd like to get a couple of history lessons.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Sure.

[Sean Ryan]

So I'd like to get, you know, some history about Vietnam and some history about MACV SOG and. Because a lot of people listening, including myself, we don't know a lot about that. A lot about that war, what it was about. And there aren't a lot of. There aren't a hell of a lot of people know about Mac V. SOG so.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, yeah, I mean, look at today, they do these on the street interviews. When they interview the young Americans, majority of them don't know who was in the north and the south in our American civil war. They don't even know that, let alone North Vietnam and South Vietnam, what the difference was or what side we were on. And nobody gets the truth about the harsh realities of communism and anybody that links themselves to communism that you've seen today with Sarah and her people, there's. There are different brands, different names of repression and taking away people's rights and. But they're all the same. And thankfully, you got people out here talking about those things. That's why I'm honored to be here.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Absolutely.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, everybody starts off with an introduction. So, John Stryker Meyer, you are a US Army Special Forces Green Beret veteran who served in Covert Military Assistance Command, Vietnam Studies and Observation Group, Mac V, SOG, or simply SOG during the Vietnam War, running dangerous top secret missions in North Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. Missions that you were unable to Talk about for 20 years. You're the recipient of two Bronze Stars with V devices, a Purple Heart, an Air Medal, the combat infantry badge, U.S. and Vietnamese parachutist Badge, Vietnamese Gallantry Cross with Palm, among others. You completed your college education at Trenton State College after returning from Vietnam and worked as a journalist until 2008. You're the author of across the Fence, the Secret War in Vietnam, and co author of on the Ground, the Secret War in Vietnam in SOG Chronicles, sharing your firsthand experiences and those of your fellow Green Berets. You are host of the podcast sogcast, where you delve into untold stories of SOG combat veterans, as well as some of the heroic aviators who supported Green Beret teams on the ground, across the fence, behind enemy lines. And more important than all of that, you're a husband to anna of over 30 years, whom you have had five children. And most importantly, you're a Christian.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Amen.

[Sean Ryan]

Welcome to the show.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, thank you again. It's an honor to be here, sir.

[Sean Ryan]

But, you know, everybody starts off with a gift, John.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, indeed. Let me guess. Even you. I hope it's legal in 50 states.

[Sean Ryan]

Even you.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Is it legal in all 50 states? I don't know.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, I don't know. I think so. But, you know, with RFK in the house, then.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, indeed.

[Sean Ryan]

They're probably. They're probably going to be illegal here any day, but Vigilance League Gummy Bears, I do believe they are still legal in all 50 states.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Very good. They are. I could take it made here in the U.S. but, sir, because we're here in a gift exchange mode, I have for you a special gift that I brought today. I'm a member of the Special Operations association, and last year we had our 48th reunion where we celebrated the 60th year since the Secret War was founded. Macvsog, the Military Assistance Command Studies and Observations Group, was founded and started in 1964. Last year was the 60th anniversary, and on that coin, there is that picture on the back of a helicopter, which is from my personal time, which was Echo 4. We had a target. We had been in contact for four hours. The South Vietnamese helicopter pilot, Captain Tinh, flew in, hovered for 10 minutes while we struggled through elephant grass to get to the helicopter. He pulled us out, and that helicopter had 48 bullet holes in it.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

He got us back. We get back to our base at FOB1 in Fubai. I go up, climb up, say, you saved our ass. Thank you. Come on into the club. I want to buy you a drink. He goes, I'm sorry. I'm flying home. My wife is holding dinner for me. Oh, yeah. Damn. Yes, sir.

[Sean Ryan]

Ben, this has my favorite saying of all time on here. You have never lived until you've almost died. For those who fought for it, life has a special flavor that the protected will never know.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Amen.

[Sean Ryan]

That quote was written on the wall when I got to Afghanistan, really, for the first time in the hooch that we were staying at. And I took a picture of it, and still to this day, it's my favorite quote.

[John Stryker Meyer]

When I first got the Fubai in 1968, if you're really a cool Green Beret, you got a Zippo cigarette lighter. And I have that on my official FOB one cigarette lighter. That saying is on it.

[Sean Ryan]

Oh, man.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Absolutely. That's part of our SOG history.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yes, sir.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you. And I got one other. One other thing for you.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, no.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah. So, you know, I'm happy with the. Being a Christian. 444. You know what that means?

[John Stryker Meyer]

No.

[Sean Ryan]

444. This is a number that appeared to me several times right after I found God.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

And it just kept appearing. And super long story short, I was driving right after I found God. I had these three appearances, like, right in a row that just slapped me in the face. And I was driving back to work, and I had 4:44 on my clock. 4:44. Gas left empty. And it was 4 hours and 44 minutes after I had had this conversation with my IT guy, Adam, about guardian angels. He wanted me to know that I had guardian angels watching over me. And so I called Kimball, who runs all the social media here.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

And I said, hey, Google what 444 means. I want to talk about this when I get back. There's obviously something.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

And he looked it up. We got in. I got in here. And it means your guardian angels want you to know they're watching over you.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Whoa.

[Sean Ryan]

How crazy is that?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Wow.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah. Because there's no doubt in my mind that the only way I survived the secret war was through the grace of the Lord. There are times when I should have been dead, so dead, so many times, and there had to be divine intervention. I'm just a dumbass city slicker out there trying to do the right thing by God and country, you know? But thank you, sir. I appreciate that.

[Sean Ryan]

You're welcome.

[John Stryker Meyer]

You're welcome.

[Sean Ryan]

But. All right, John, you ready to get into it?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Absolutely. Yes, sir.

[Sean Ryan]

Where'd you grow up?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Trenton, New Jersey. Yeah, the capital of New Jersey. We were there. Dad was a milkman, and I grew up in the milk truck with Dad, a devout Christian. And mom was a church organist and a choir director and a piano teacher. And so they met at a church in Trenton, Kahmom. Drove down from Belmead, which is about 20 miles away, to play organ and attended a choir. Well, dad, he was a good musician, but he couldn't sing, for he was a horrible voice. And he was young. But he joined the choir.

[Sean Ryan]

He joined the choir.

[John Stryker Meyer]

He did. He met Dorothy Grace stryker, and in January 1943, they were married up in Harlingen, New Jersey, the Dutch Reformed Church. And they lived happily ever after. And so three years later, I was born 1946.

[Sean Ryan]

1946. 79 years old.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yes, sir. And grew up on a milk truck with dad. Watched him. And we had common interest in baseball because that was the sport then. And we'd have our catches and worked a lot at church. We had a church community there and just grew up there, you know, every Sunday in the early days, Dad's dad delivered milk seven days a week. So on Sundays, we get up, do the milk route change, hit, get to church on time.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Absolutely.

[Sean Ryan]

Any brothers and sisters?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, we have. I got a younger sister, Linda. She's up there in Lakewood, Colorado. A little brother, Dave, and he's in Aurora, Colorado. They both went west from Trenton many years ago, but they love it out there. And we lost a little brother. He was. We lost him at five months back in 1951. He had heart congestion of some sort. Probably, if it happened today, they probably could have saved him. But in 19, in 1951, they couldn't. Didn't have the medical procedures in place.

[Sean Ryan]

Man.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

What kind of stuff were you into as a kid?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, just a goofy kid. Loved baseball. Started I was a cowboy you know, my granddad Meyer bought me a cap pistol. Now, we had no alcohol and no guns in the house. And when Granddad Meyer bought me a cap pistol, there were some issues. But Granddad pulled rank on mom for the one time that I ever saw him do it, and she let me bring the cap pistol in the house. So we played cowboys and Indians, went to play a little league ball. I was never the brightest student in school, but usually could get it done well enough to get through the grade, get promoted to the next grade, play piano. We had a.

[Sean Ryan]

You play piano?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah. I could read music before I could read words. Because you think about with music, you only have eight letters, A through G. The damn Alphabet's got 26 letters. Man, in kindergarten, that gets really rough. I could read music before I read words.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you still play?

[John Stryker Meyer]

I'm rusty, but yes. My mom gave me her Steinway, so I go up there and tickle the ivies once in a while.

[Sean Ryan]

How about. Anna loves that.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, she does? Absolutely. Yes. She's my biggest fan, and we have stories about that. Like, the first serious date we had, I took her back to my house and cooked dinner and stuff. I took her into the living room, and I turned the light out. She's like, oh, my God, what's gonna happen? I'm here with this Green Beret. She's apprehensive. But I played Chopin for her.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

And I figured, this woman is such a classic. If there's any way she likes classic music, I can use this to try to gain her hand in marriage someday. And the rest is history, brother.

[Sean Ryan]

It worked.

[John Stryker Meyer]

It did. It worked. Thank God she likes Chopin. We know y'all love your guns.

[Sean Ryan]

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[John Stryker Meyer]

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[Sean Ryan]

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[John Stryker Meyer]

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[John Stryker Meyer]

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[Sean Ryan]

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[John Stryker Meyer]

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[Sean Ryan]

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[John Stryker Meyer]

A little bit.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah.

[John Stryker Meyer]

No. But again, growing up in the church like that and mom and dad were pretty close reigns on us and if we stepped out of line and even then neighborhoods, if Mrs. Zabrowski saw me doing something like Johnny, you shouldn't be doing that, she would kick my ass. And then she'd tell mom and Mama Meyer when she's not happy, baby. So that between that and the church, you always had influences keeping you on the track. And by the time we got to high school, I was in the marching band for a year. We had vocal groups I was involved with that played JV soccer. And dad didn't want me to play football. He's worried about my knees because I hurt my knee playing soccer in eighth grade. But I finally played football my senior year with Elvin Bethea, a couple other people, and my high school quarterback, as it turns out, Hal Krosky was. He went MIA on a mission in Cambodia in February of 1969. Wow. So every February comes around I think of my quarterback. But I because I had missed the first two years I was on the team, did all the practices, went to all the games, geared up, but never crossed the line. But I loved it. I loved every second of it.

[Sean Ryan]

So you wouldn't consider yourself to be an athlete?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, not A very good one. You know, I just love, I love baseball. Such a head game. And I have a dominant eye. And when I grew up, you know, I wanted to be an air force pilot. Had model planes and build them and I had a lot of earaches, so mom would always get me a little plane to make or Lincoln Logs or something like that. But deep down inside, I wanted the fathers fly a jet. Well, at some point, remember talking to one of the eye doctors, saying someday I want to be a jet pilot. He says, nah, with your vision, it's not going to work. So I settled for the next best thing, jumping out of airplanes.

[Sean Ryan]

Really?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, of course. Plus. Yeah. When I went through jump school, I had a 102% pay raise because in May of 67, when I go through jump school, a private, I still, I think I still a private E1, the pay was $50 a month.

[Sean Ryan]

Damn.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Now jump pay for an enlisted scumbag, you know, was not officers pay, but enlisted was $55 a month. So the first paycheck I bought my Cochrane jump boots. And the rest is history, man.

[Sean Ryan]

Nice.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yes, sir. Has 16 jumps overall.

[Sean Ryan]

So. So how do you just go from. I mean, was it immediate? You were just like, all right, I can't be a pilot, I guess I'll jump out of planes.

[John Stryker Meyer]

No, no, it was much longer progression than that. It took me two years to flunk out of college. So I was there just literally just doing the wrong thing. I went in as a music major, transferred to be a phys ed major because the music department chairman learned that I was playing soccer. He says, you either got to be a music major or a jock. Well, I don't like being talked to like that. So I went to the phys ed department and I knew the soccer coach because I went out for JV socce and I knew the baseball coach, a great guy. And so they signed me up, transferred to phys ed, still flunked out. Took me two years. Flunked out. And that summer I worked at Yosemite National Park. And when I was up there, I got a letter from dad. Hey, you flunked out. Be advised the draft board's coming for you. And I swear, again, like this divine intervention stuff, within a few days. One of my jobs was to pick up trash in the southern part of Yosemite. And it's in the Wawona, which is down by the southern gate, down by the big trees. So I used to go out and walk, maybe anywhere from 5 to 10 miles, pick up the trash And I got to the point where I had it really clean. So I would jog, pick up the trash, and I would go to a bookstore and get a book. Well, one day I'd go into the bookstore, and there's a book. The Green Berets. Now, this is 1966, the summer of in 1964, a Green Beret received the first Medal of Honor for combat in South Vietnam. And through high school, we read that in the history class. It was mandatory reading of the New York Times, back when it was a real newspaper. And they talked about Southeast Asia, Kennedy, assassination of Diem, all that. And so we knew about it, but it was still far away. And if you gave me a map, I wouldn't have been able to find Indochina. But I read that book, I said, son of a bitch, if I can make it with these guys, I want to go with them. Because I knew at that time in 1966, people were getting drafted. The draft was on, and you got drafted. You would have eight weeks of basic training, eight weeks of advanced training, one month leave. You're going to Vietnam. Well, like I said, I'm a city slicker, and I didn't have much experience with weapons. My cousins and I would go out and shoot when I go up to my cousin's farm. Shoot the shotguns and.22s, things like that, but not real training. So I figured, with these guys, I'll get more training. I need that. So if I can do it. So enlisted airborne, unassigned. Went through basic training at Fort Dix, N.J. and one of my medals that I'm really proud of is the expert badge for shooting. We qualified in the M14. It was. When we went to the range, it was 2 degrees below zero.

[Sean Ryan]

2 degrees below zero. And you're calling qualifying damn.

[John Stryker Meyer]

And my last shot, I got 60, which you need to be an expert. I polished that metal up and wore it proudly for my entire time in the military. After that, we had advanced infantry training. And then during advanced infantry training, they had the. Whenever it was a rainy day, they would take us to a big auditorium. Everybody would sit on the floor. It would be career day. You learn about different moss. So we're sitting on the floor, and they had a stage up front with steps on each side. And you had these cooks that would come up. The military police would come up, and the cooks were like, hey, if you come with us, you'll never be hungry, okay? But none of those guys were in shape. And other people, Signal Corps came in crypto. People came in the Very last guy was a Green Beret, a little. Little tough guy. And it was raining. That's why we're inside. We're all sitting on the floor. He comes up, walks through us, did a vertical jump on the stage, turned around and goes, I'm here for Special Forces. I'm looking, I'm a recruiter. Anybody interested see me? Anybody here interested? Well, I jumped off the floor. I read the book. Me and about four or five other guys. I'm looking around like hundreds of people are sitting on their ass. Said, you guys are going to go to Vietnam in a couple of months. If I can get in with these guys, I want to get some more training. So, yeah, that was it. Went down, did a psychological test and passed all the tests. The physical stuff and the.

[Sean Ryan]

How tough was it? How tough was the physical test?

[John Stryker Meyer]

For me, not tough. I was in good shape for running, swimming. I could swim enough to survive. Not like seal swimming, but just enough to get that old side worst. Comes the worst. Hit the sidestroke and just go till the cows come home, you know.

[Sean Ryan]

What was the psychological test like back then?

[John Stryker Meyer]

I don't know. It wasn't too bad. You kind of figure there's a couple, you know, they're trying to lead you a certain way. So you want to answer. Just make sure you're right.

[Sean Ryan]

Whatever it was, Fuzzy bunnies. That's what I tell everybody when they're getting ready to take the psych test. Just think, fuzzy bunnies.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, for sure. So he. So the final day comes, and all the people that had signed up were there. And so he dismissed the people that didn't make it. And there was a bunch of us. He brought each one in one at a time. I'm the last one. He brought me in and made me stand there for like, it felt like an eternity. And so he finally, he goes, okay, Meyer. He said, you're lucky. They lowered the standards. So he either busted my chops or they lowered the standards. Either way, I was. I said, am I in or not? He goes, yeah, you're in. So we went from there, had jump school at Fort Benning, had a zero week there and bought my first pair of jump boots, began to polish them up. Three weeks. And through all that time, it's like that harassment thing, you know, just like in the movies. It's the same. And a jump school is a little different. They literally throw you out of your bunker at 2:00 in the morning. It's kind of like, okay, I've seen the movies. I know how this plays out. So we went through it all and then we had five jumps to qualify and went through that pretty much without any major injuries or anything. And then we went to Fort Bragg and we left on a Friday night. Packed us up on the bus, drove from Columbia, Georgia or Columbus, Georgia, up to Fort Bragg, North Carolina going. We don't get there till 11, 12 o'clock at night. So the bus comes out, everybody gets out. We're just waiting to get screwed with, you know, have people come out harassing, harangue and stuff. And we're all standing around, some guy comes out with flip flops and shorts and a shirt with a clipboard. Welcome to Special Forces Training Group. It's Friday night. Here's the barracks for a temporary barracks. You all go find a bunk now. Is anybody here hungry? We got the mess hall over here. The cook is there making some sandwiches if you want go what? The cook's going to make sandwiches for me, a private first class. You kept waiting for him to screw with you, you know, and they didn't. So we were there for the whole weekend. He says, Monday morning there'll be a formation be there. That was it. So we went to all the meals. Mess hall was the little PT just to stay in shape and began training. So that was May of 67.

[Sean Ryan]

How when did the Vietnam War start?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well on officially it was in the early 70s, like 56, 57. We had Green Beret teams that went over. The CIA was working with their programs there and after Kennedy became really unhappy with the CIA after the Bay of Pigs and a couple other incidents they.

[Sean Ryan]

Put who was the Bay of Pigs?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Was the invasion of the. The CIA was working to take Cuba back from Fidel Castro. And it was a completely botched mission. They had planned to attack, go in and then win over the hearts and minds of the Cubans and the people that worked in the operations side of the CIA had a different location planned and a key part was going to be air support with A1 Skyraiders and anything else. But somebody changed the plan and they put it in the Bay of Pigs, which was not as well of an area. The other area had train lines, highways, mountains where people could go hide in the mountains from any congress that would come hunting for him. But this area, the Bay of Pigs, was also where Fidel Castro took vacations. So he and his people knew it. Anyways, that invasion attempt was failed and Kennedy refused to give them air support. And that was a big incident that blew up nationally, internationally embarrassing to the United States and to Kennedy. And by. At the end of 63, they took away the COVID side of the CIA in Vietnam and they formed MACV, SOG in, I think it was January 1964, it was officially announced. So the Military Assistance Command, Vietnam Studies and Observations Group was formed up. It took a while to get things in place, like any military operation. But by 65, we had people who were beginning to form. They had a base up at Kam Duck where they were doing training, and they began running missions across the fence. And some of them would be. They just. In those days, you know, the NVA didn't have their act together in La Os or Cambodia. Our guys could go. They would patrol in, but they often made contact if they were in. And by the time I arrived in 1968, they had. The NVA, had 25,000 troops in Laos.

[Sean Ryan]

What does the NVA stand for?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, sorry. North Vietnamese Army. It was officially the People's army of Vietnam, but it was the North Vietnamese army for us. So it's the nva. And they were trained up north, had training from the Russians and the Chinese. And like, by 68, that was our worst year in the Vietnam War, the highest year for casualties amongst all US Troops. Because he had the Tet Offensive in the beginning of the year, as well as sog, we had the highest year of casualties that year. So that's just the way that went. I don't know if we get back to the sort of the beginning stuff. I'm wandering a little bit.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, no, let's rewind a little bit. How old were you on the Kennedy assassination happened?

[John Stryker Meyer]

I was in high school. We were in choir practice, and the choir director, who was a Navy veteran, somebody came in and talked to him. He stopped. He turned around, and then he came back and faced us. He said, we're done. He said, somebody just shot their president. So I was 17 at the time.

[Sean Ryan]

17?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, in high school. And we always had choir practice in the auditorium. And everybody was stunned. So he said it was. It was always the last class of the day. He said, if you all want to go home early today, you can. You're dismissed. He was weeping. And Harry Molder was tough, but a great guy because I was a. We had music classes. We had been in the band for one year. And vocal. We had the male Glee club, had the chorus, and then there was a special group. And we would meet in the mornings at an hour before school started, and we had practice with the special group. There would be. I forget how it broke down. I think we had like 12 guys and 12 girls that were taken out of the choir. And we practice special numbers, did a little choreography and everything, and. But Harry's just a great guy.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, what did you think about the Kennedy assassination?

[John Stryker Meyer]

It's outraged. Just couldn't believe what happened.

[Sean Ryan]

What was the pulse of the country.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Just total outrage. Just to think that some. And again, we're just reading from the media, Oswald, some scumbag that had been to Russia, was able to get up to the Book Tower and to shoot the President in Dallas. And you knew that there was a lot of political strife down there. It was not a Democratic stronghold in Dallas at that time. And there had been. We had heard within days that Kennedy had been advised not to go to Dallas because of hostilities or hostile attitude towards him. And as it all involved, as it evolved, then when Oswald gets killed, you figured that we've lost the source of what really happened that day. Hoping that somebody gives some truth serum or something and say, what really happened here? Could he look too stupid to be able to do anything that would be that sophisticated to get a weapon and go up and kill the President and go into this building that you just assumed a CIA. I mean, the Secret Service would have more of a protective. Before they go into a target area, before the President goes anywhere, they look at all the buildings, as opposed to scope those things out. There's a lot of questions to ask. But even in my little furtive mind.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, I mean, just go down a little rabbit hole here. I mean.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

You know, all these years later, they're getting ready to release the files. Supposedly. You know, I know they released a bunch. I don't know what's in them yet, but, I mean, what do you think? What do you think that was?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, recently, Glenn Beck has done some. Some stuff on it. A little bit of a deep dig. And when he talked to Cass Patel, Cass said, when you look at this stuff, it's not who, it's what was, what was going on. And so they're beginning to roll up a lot of strings that are coming off of that from, you know, apparent CIA involvement at some level. And on the Internet, there's at least one guy saying, I killed the President. And I've never listened to it because I just figured he's a kook. But again, Glenn Beck is saying at least there was things there that there was CIA involvement. And, you know, when we were involved with the CIA, most of the times it was doing things that were mission oriented to hurt the communists. So everything was like mission oriented. And you know, we had mixed emotions dealing with the CIA. Even in 68 and 69, it was a one way street. Give us information, but we'd never get anything back. Which is fine. We're trained professionals. We're out there snooping the poop. And like one of the things we would do, we'd do wiretaps. And the CIA says if you listen to the wire, there's nothing going on. Tape it anyway. Tape it. We had at that time, state of the art cassette recorder for the cassette. And then the wire would go up and then our little people, that's an affectionate term for my South Vietnamese, we had them trained up. They would climb the pole or the tree, tap it in, and then if it was on a telephone pole, they took mud with them and they recovered a wire. So anybody going by, they wouldn't see the wire. And we would tape it. And when we were done, we turned in all the blank tapes. For us, it sounded like blank tapes, but the CIA would amplify it 100 times and they said they were able to get great intel off of those tapes.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

To me it just sounded like nothing interesting. But if the CIA is happy, I'm happy.

[Sean Ryan]

At least.

[John Stryker Meyer]

In that case, and we get to be a couple other war stories later, we have some CIA angles, but let's get back to our rewind. Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

So let's. So back to you show up.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Special Forces training.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yes.

[Sean Ryan]

You get the weekend. You get your sandwiches made for you. What was that Monday like?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, for that time on, it was just like, I couldn't believe I was there. It was just growing up as a kid and thinking about this is an opportunity. By now everybody knew the Green Berets. The song had been out, the Ballad of the Green Berets. And so the book had been out. And of course Roger. Roger Donelan was the recipient of the first Medal of Honor from the Vietnam War. His a camp got overrun in July of 64. He earned a Medal of Honor. So that was the first Medal of Honor awarded by President Johnson to Roger, who fortunately I became friends with years later. So we knew about that and knew about that history and more stories were appearing in the paper. In 65, you had the I Drang Valley with We were soldiers once. That story, I mean, never told that way in the media, but took the movie in the book that Joe Galloway did, that was just give you accurate insights into that. But that was an obvious escalation. We knew the 173rd Airborne was there, the Marines were there, and you have footage. There's footage of the Marines going into Danang. Well, the Special Forces story side of that. The Marine photographers were really pissed with the Green Berets when the Marines invaded Da Nang, when they went in with their beach assault, because some of the Green Berets had been out water skiing and they're in the background water skiing. So they had to edit out the Green Berets water skiing. Oh, shit. That's one of my favorite. That's hilarious. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So there's that fun side of life there too, you know, what was the.

[Sean Ryan]

Training like and how many, how many of you guys were there?

[John Stryker Meyer]

You know, it's. I'm no good on numbers. I was strictly focused on me. Got to know a couple guys. And in the beginning we had phase one, which is general training, you know, mission map reading, orientation. Can you get the point A to point B? I instantly found a guy from Texas who had grown up in the woods. Me and him were really good friends because I knew, I wasn't quite sure of my compass trainings and bearings that way. But we got through it all. Had a little bit of hand to hand and forced marches, things like that. And then after phase one, you went to phase two, which was MOS training. So with Special Forces, you have five Moss Como, Demolitions, Weapons intel and medics. And the medic course at that time, the Green Berets, as they are today, the medics, are the best in the world. Their training was over a year long now. In fact, it was so tough. I knew that was an MOS that I couldn't take because they had classes. They would go in and do a class all day and first thing in the morning they'd be getting tested on what they, what they had been taught the day previous. And they, they lost a lot of people because that was a rigorous course. And then when they're done, you had the dog lab where they would wound a dog, you had to patch up the dog, sew its leg back on, and then they would go to emergency rooms around the country. They still do this today with the emergency. Oh, yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

SEALs send their guys to the Delta.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Delta, yeah, sure enough. And we had for years the seals were coming through that medic course. Now I don't know if they still do or not because the seals have expanded so much of their training.

[Sean Ryan]

I don't know when I was. Then they were still doing it, but.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, but it was good. And so that's our MOS and so I got commo at that time, as Morse code was the key part of the commo. We had other classes on just FM radios, AM radios, handheld stuff. You had the basic training, but the hard part was the Morse code. Myself, Johnny McIntyre, Tony Harrell, we all flunked out. We got recycled. And when we got recycled, there was a sergeant first Class, Villa Rosa Paul Villa Rosa. He took us under his wing. Now, he had been an arm three times. On his neck was a tattoo, cut here. And he was tough, and he was amazing. He could.

[Sean Ryan]

He tattooed a line that said cut here.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, yeah. He had a couple other tattoos, which I don't remember, but he was an amazing Morse code. He had been in the maritime service previous as a communicator. And he could take. He could do Morse code with both hands. He could send and receive at the same time. And his speed was so fast. They had the thing that's called the bug. And the bug was a handheld for you to do your Morse code signals, but it's really fast. Well, he would make that thing sing. So he took us in. He came in at night. We could come back at night for extra. He would be there with us. We went in for the weekends. We finally got. With Morse code, you had five letter groups, and you had to get 15 or 18 word groups per minute to graduate from commo. It took a while, but we. We made it. What was.

[Sean Ryan]

So you wanted to go to Vietnam?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, I seen all the war movies you grew up with, with the Duke and everybody else with their war movies and God and country.

[Sean Ryan]

So what did you. What was it like for you getting trained by special ops guys that are coming back from Vietnam?

[John Stryker Meyer]

It, you know, it was really. It was just. I just felt like I was in the element that it was new and different for me. It was so, so far out that I was just happy to be able to and be able to. Every time I graduated to the next phase, kind of like, we made it. You know, I kept waiting for them to say, like that recruiter, you're lucky we lowered the standards. Somebody's going to come along and have a reality check. And so how the hell did you get in here this far? Get out of here, Go to go be a cook somewhere. The leg unit, you know, I kept waiting for that, but we kept going on and made it through.

[Sean Ryan]

How'd they treat you guys?

[John Stryker Meyer]

You know, it was. It was different. It wasn't like basic AIT and jump school there. They gave you rules. You had to abide by them. Whatever they told you to do, you had to do it. But they also, if you asked a question, a lot of times they would answer the question. And it just felt like they were training us to go to Vietnam. And we knew that we had this mission against communism. We had seen what communism had done in Hungary. We had seen and heard about things in Russia and we heard about Mao Testung. We never realized just what brutal killers they were of their own people, mass murderers, effectively. But we knew communism sucked. We saw Fidel Castro and what happened to Cuba. And so we knew that we're up against the forces of darkness at that time, and we're training for that. And at that time, the Green Berets only thing we knew about were the Green Beret A teams that went over. So you had an A team. There would be a senior medic and a junior medic and for all the moss, and then you'd have the team leader and then there'd be an officer who'd be a captain and then there'd be an executive officer. But the team sergeant ran the team. But there'd be that delicate balance between them. So that's what we trained up for. It was A teams going to Vietnam. And through that training we came to finally to the ftx. You put together your first A team without the officers, and we would go in as a team. We had missions, the combo guards. We had to set up the wires. And of course, here's army training. This is December 1967. Our training is in the Uarari National Park National Forest in North Carolina. It snowed. We had like a foot of snow for our training prior to going to Vietnam, which is like the perfect icy moronico WTF situation. You know, it's like, what, we're going to go to Nam and we're here in the snow. And of course, my Texas buddy who had helped me get through with the orientation, we were in the combo together and he was my joint mate. We were supposed to take turns sleeping. Well, he fell asleep on his watch. The instructor came by, tore down our tent, kicked our ass, put us out in the snow. We survived it, got through and put up the antenna and we jumped our jump. So we finally jumped at night and we jumped at night at 800ft. And that's a pretty close jump. I mean, the only ones I heard about some of your programs, some of the guys from today, when they jump at 400ft. And we had a couple guys later on with SOG, we had five Halo jumps into Laos and then we had 12 or 13, depending who you talk to. Static line Jumps, some in Laos and then some in South Vietnam when they were supporting eight camps that were under siege. But they would talk about jumping at 500ft, no reserve, because you just go out the string pools and you're landing. And in my case, 800ft happened really quick because I was the combo guy. So you had your parachute and emergency parachute, your equipment bag, your M14 bag, and then we had an additional bag because we had to carry. We had a. Our radio was a. We called the angry 109. And you used that for Morse code. And in order to get that radio, you had to have a handheld generator that sat on a metal frame that you sat on. So you would have somebody would sit there cranking the generator, and then you put the antenna up and communicate back to base. So I had the. You have that metal seat. Yeah, the generator, which was heavy, complete with the handles and then the radio, plus the M14 and plus other equipment, sleeping bag and stuff like that. So when he jumped, I was. I jumped heavy and jumped out. And just by the grace of the Lord again, there was one little road and I came out, the wind took me and I landed. Did a POF there and went and did the ftx, a field training exercise. We were out there for five or six days and nights, got through it, came back for some final classes, and it was around, I don't know, December 14th, 15th, somewhere around there. This is graduation. Here's your certificate. Congratulations. Here's your pass for leave for Christmas. In our case, the commo guys, there was a bunch of us that went TDY to Fort Gordon, Georgia for 12 weeks of radio teletype because the A camps needed. Of course, we didn't know it, but SOG needed communicators with top secret clearance to run the radio teletype.

[Sean Ryan]

Did you know what SOG was at the time?

[John Stryker Meyer]

We. We'd heard something about a deadly top secret mission in Vietnam. And it was scuttlebutt. And, you know, once. And with our comma class, particularly once we got recycled. So we knew all the instructors and they knew us. And so as you get near the end, they could tell who's going to graduate. And at the end, there'd be a coffee break or something, and we get to talk. Hey, you've been to Vietnam. They've all been there at least two or three times, like Sergeant Villarosa. And so we're going through this and they go, look, when you go to Vietnam, you're going to get in country training. And when you're done with that, get assigned to an A camp. There's operations out there, people just die. They're going to come out at the end of your in country training, you're going to say, we're looking for volunteers, but they won't tell you what it is, don't do it. Go to an A camp, get used to Vietnam. Okay, so we go through our radio teletype training. Johnny McIntyre and I, we got busted. We got busted from a private first class to private Edu. Those legs down, they just didn't like us leaving base at night, going downtown to howl the wolves. So Johnny and I got going down.

[Sean Ryan]

Downtown to where to?

[John Stryker Meyer]

To Augusta. We called the Disgusta, but Augusta, Georgia Disgusta, huh? Yeah, it's right outside.

[Sean Ryan]

What happens in disgust?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, it was amazing. They had a couple of really cool nightclubs there. You could drink a lot. My dad was kind enough to let me take our Pontiac down there. So I had a car and Johnny McIntyre and I, we drove down, we were there. So at night they come by with a base inspection, like at 10, 10:30, all tucked in. We had our clothes on the second he left, man, bing, we're out to the parking lot, we're downtown. The bars would close at 2:00 and Mac and I would go across the border to South Carolina because their bars there were open till 5. So we leave about 4:30, so we'd get back to base.

[Sean Ryan]

We would have got along great together.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh yeah, this is like. So at some point during this training, McIntyre and I drove home and that night we stopped at a bar and John and I are sitting there on the tv. So this is now the Tet offensive is kicking in and we're going through this training. And on the tv, I don't have a cbs, but here's a. You can see this grainy picture of a tank and they said, this is a NVA tank that broke into Lang Ve, a Green Beret camp, which is in the northwest corner of South Vietnam, right, just south of the dmz, not far away from Laos. And this NVA tank tried to overrun the base last night. Those Green Berets were fighting for their lives. McIntyre and I go, holy shit, we're going to die when we get there. We drove home, took all our money out of the bank. We didn't want our family fighting over our money. If we died, we go home, take all our money out, drove back to base, and every night we went out for steak. We spent all our money, of course, went to the bars, spent it all in Disgust, though. Indeed. There was a little sweetheart down there, Johnny had his good girlfriend. I met this gal. And before we were done with the training, then we had a month leave, and then we went to Vietnam. I arrived in Vietnam at the end of April 1968.

[Sean Ryan]

So before we. Before we get into Vietnam, are you saying that when they would take these volunteers, that was S.O.B.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yes, absolutely. And they had a couple other operations by the time we got there. They had the Mike Force, which had been operating since 63. And the Mike Force was the first QRF, basically. And when the A camps would get hit, they would need someone to come in to help them break. Break the fight. And Mike Force was just outstanding. We had a friend of mine, his name was Jack Tobin. He was in the Mike Force, had several tours over there. Highly respected Green Beret. Met him years later. He was president of the Special Forces association, and I was on the Special Operations Association Board of Directors. We met at the reunions, and Jack introduced me to a friend. He goes, this is my friend Tilt Meyer here. He was in SOG now, in sog, they'd be out there snooping and pooping, and he was just doing intel work. Yeah, they made some contact with the nva, but with Mike Force, we were out there hunting for those commune motherfuckers, and that was the difference. And Mike Force would go out, and they just had an outstanding reputation. They broke many a siege, that the A camps would be under siege by the NVA and the Viet Cong. But that was the difference. But I learned that years later in this case. We heard a scuttlebutt.

[Sean Ryan]

Heard the scuttlebutt.

[John Stryker Meyer]

So we went through the country training, which is three weeks.

[Sean Ryan]

So can you describe what the war was about at that time, before you went?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, we knew that the Viet Cong. And you heard about all the legends. The Viet Cong is just the peasant fighter, the farmer by day, fighter by night, defending what he thinks is his country. They don't talk about any of the nva, the communist people that are supporting them, that are in country, that are with a majority of the Viet Cong units. When we go through some of the Special Forces training, we're told about the Communist infiltrations, told about how they're operating. Of course, we had horror stories about what the Vietcong would do to a village or to people that weren't friendly.

[Sean Ryan]

What would they do?

[John Stryker Meyer]

You name it. We had one of our Medal of Honor recipients had. He was in a Special Forces operation. They had gone into a village and worked with the people the children there for a period of time, and it was strictly a hearts and minds operation. They would go in, the medics would go in, always do sick call every day, work with the children. They built some schools, other training facilities, things like this. At some point, the Viet Cong came in and killed everybody, every man, woman and child, to send a message to any other village that would think about working with the Green berets or Americans. They were just profoundly cruel and heartless that way. And that shook John.

[Sean Ryan]

How would they compare to like a modern day terrorist, like isis, al Qaeda? Were there beheadings? Were there? I mean, they burn people alive. Today in Syria, you know, they're crucifying people and shooting them at the back of the head.

[John Stryker Meyer]

They. The Christians there were hurt. I don't know if they would be specifically targeted.

[Sean Ryan]

I don't mean just the Christians. I mean, I know.

[John Stryker Meyer]

But here.

[Sean Ryan]

So would they be a common, gruesome, burning people alive?

[John Stryker Meyer]

They would. They would do it all. You know, during the Tet offensive, in the town of Wei, which is the old imperial capital, they had killed a bunch of civilians. Anybody who was educated, nurses, doctors, they took a bunch out and killed. And they had a mass grave which received not enough publicity. But this is during the Tet offensive. And we had other cases where they would torture people to get them to come over to the side. If they did, they would kill them. And for me, when we get.

[Sean Ryan]

How would they torture them?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, you. You name it, they would do the fingernail thing, beat them up, get them to come around. If they didn't, then they would just shoot him. And, you know, of course, the guys are in country. The A camp guys always had to worry about booby traps. Even if you saw the movie, the Green Beret, he had those big punji ambush things where if you walked in it, it would pick you up, and then a rope would pick you up and your weight of your body would swing you into, like, punjis that were all coated with animal dung. So when you slammed into it, like, like in the movie where they picked up the one guy and his body was impaled on those punji stakes and they had punji pits. And if anybody stepped in it, of course you have the infection off of those. And in my case with Paul Villarosa, our hero, the guy helped us get through training. He ran the first mission out of FOB 4, his fourth tour of duty. He ran a mission into Laos. They ran into a heavy unit. He was wounded, and at some point he was captured. They killed several Other team members, but they kept one American alive, an SF guy who's. We never knew who it was, but Villa Rosa, they got him and they came in with a flamethrower and literally burned him alive at the stake. And they killed a couple of the other Vietnamese. They torched them, too. So when we got done our briefing, we heard about Paul Villarosa, and it was like, that was culture shock to the max, because here's. He was our hero. This is a guy did three tours, survived all that, and his first mission out of FOB 4, killed and tortured.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

And of course, you always had the story. We had teams where men who had been wounded, they would disembowel them, cut their head off and stick their head in the. In the cavity where the bowels were.

[Sean Ryan]

Geez.

[John Stryker Meyer]

And. And the other part was sometimes they would cut their dick off and stick it in their mouth and then put that in. Now, I never saw that personally, any of that. Say again?

[Sean Ryan]

You never saw any of that?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Nothing like that. But we heard about it, and it was from our guys.

[Sean Ryan]

Before you went, you heard about it.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Some before, and in some while we were there, other teams that come up against.

[Sean Ryan]

And so the premise of the Vietnam War was the NVA and the Viet Cong pushing communism into Vietnam.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Right.

[Sean Ryan]

And so where does Laos and Cambodia come into play?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, there were, quote, neutral countries. In the beginning. We had Operation White Star, which had Green Beret teams in layoffs. But under that change of plan of converting to macv, SOG Kennedy, they had an accord of some. Some kind of a political agreement that America would pull any and all combat troops out of Vietnam, out of Laos and out of Cambodia, and the North Vietnamese and the communists would do the same thing. They were all there, and they agreed to this accord. Well, of course, the Communists are just lying douchebags, as we all know. And publicly they say, yeah, we're out. Well, in 57, they had started to open up the reopen the Ho Chi Minh Trail, which went from Hanoi, down to Vietnam, across, down through Laos, into Cambodia. And there'd be trails that would come in to South Vietnam, and that would be the Ho Chi Minh Trail. And that would be the way that supplies demand power. And as early as 57, they began working on it. By 59, the Politicburo in Hanoi said, we are going to form an official unit for the Ho Chi Minh trail. It'll be 559May59. So that's when it was formed. They had a colonel in charge of it. Other people. So from 59 into the 60s, they already had rudimentary supplies and manpower coming south, agents, et cetera. And so we would go, not we, but they would go through that, expanding. And so then the Air Force would start targeting the Ho Chi Minh Trail. And it wasn't just a trail. It'd be different branches coming down and going into the country, into South Vietnam. And that's what that was designed for. And so by the time I arrive, our first, before we go there, what.

[Sean Ryan]

Was the pulse of the country about Vietnam at the time?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, we believed. We believed our presidents, even that lion scumbag Lyndon Johnson, saying that this is communism. They're here to take, overtake the country. And we were familiar with the domino theory from Eisenhower. Here's Dwight David Eisenhower, our World War II fame and a good president. And if he's saying we've got the domino theory of great concern to us, well, we all believe them. And, you know, anything we could do to stop Khan is having seen what it was. So the majority of the country, I would say, was very supportive of it. And by 66, you're beginning to get some protesters. And, you know, there might be other, quote, Vietnam experts that talk about the protests and who was really against it. But I always felt supported from the beginning. And by the time we land in 68, there's now more demonstrations, some college campuses and whatnot. But I always felt like they're just so far removed from it, and you never know who's putting the anti war sentiments in their head. And, I mean, there are things the South Vietnamese did wrong. You know, President Diem, who was assassinated with a coup In November of 63, he was really harsh. Catholics were minority, religious minority. And then you had the Buddhists that were against him. And some of the things that that family did made it very difficult to support and that then the media, of course, would play up these things and report that's what actually happened. But meanwhile, you had the communists that were coming into the country, thwarting the people and wanting to take it over so that they could control the people and the land. And, you know, like my classic example for me, once I got on my recon team, we had people, three members of our team had grown up and born in North Vietnam, came south with their families in 54. And they all knew our government is corrupt in South Vietnam, but we prefer corrupt government over communism with Ho Chi Minh, because we can live here, we can still flourish. I can raise a family. I can do my crops. We know when the communists take over they're going to fuck you over any way they can, as only communists do. And they were willing to die for it. And that was my bond with my little people. And there are other people in Vietnam. Again, there are some that didn't want anything to do with the war. And again, there's people like peasants who are there getting whatever they're told from the Viet Cong or the local villagers. You know how it is with getting accurate information out to the huddle masses.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, John, let's take a quick break.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Okay.

[Sean Ryan]

When we come back, we'll pick up with stepping ground on Vietnam.

[John Stryker Meyer]

I'll drink to that.

[Sean Ryan]

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[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh indeed.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah. Our Patreon account is it's a subscription network and these guys, a lot of them have been with us since the very beginning and we built it into quite a community. And so one of the things that I do for them is I give them the opportunity to ask each and every guest a question.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Indeed.

[Sean Ryan]

So this is from Rich Benjamin. Does Tilt think we waged the Vietnam land war in the wrong country? How does he feel? The end result would have been if we waged a land war in Laos and Cambodia.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Good question. In the very early days, if we had really been in the Military, World War II frame of mind to win and if we had because the it's been documented, the North Vietnamese most feared Particularly in the early days around 64, 65, that the US would cut off the Ho Chi Minh Trail completely, go in with a. However, do it. So in answer, I mean, I'm biased. I think that had we addressed that war as we did World War II, with the win mentality, not let the State Department dictate terms such as when we have MACV, SOG running missions. They wouldn't even let us run missions in Cambodia until 66. And when they ran the missions, they even dictated the type of weapons initially you could carry. And when I ran missions in Cambodia, I was down to TDY for a couple weeks. We had no tac air. What we had was helicopter gunships. And we had the 20th Special Operations Squadron from the Air Force, the Green Hornets. Those guys were hot shit. I mean, all of our helicopter, majority of our helicopter assets were hostile. But those guys were the hottest because they were. The Air Force had the latest state of the art Hueys, most powerful, had the mini guns that were flexible. And they saved my ass. They saved our team ass. So in answer to that, I think it would have been different. Mine Haipong harbor, cut off Cambodia so they can't come in with the supplies. Tell the Russians and the Chinese we're not fighting you, but don't you bring supplies and you cut off all the supplies. I think would have been. It would still would have been a long one, but eventually it could have been a different outcome.

[Sean Ryan]

Thanks for answering that. Rich is a huge fan of yours, so I'm gonna have you sign this card for him.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Gladly. And I know Rich. He was at our last reunion. He was a videographer there.

[Sean Ryan]

Oh, really?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Absolutely. He's got some incredible footage of A1 Sky Raiders and some interviews with our Skyraider pilots. Good man.

[Sean Ryan]

Oh man. Well, he'll love this then.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Absolutely. I'll sign it with a capital X just for him.

[Sean Ryan]

Perfect.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Perfect.

[Sean Ryan]

All right, so let's move into Vietnam.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yes, sir.

[Sean Ryan]

Let's go all the way back. Very first day in country.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, you know, I had. We had a month, R and R. I went up to my cousins, they were farmers up in New Jersey. I hung out with my cousins, worked the fields up there with them. It was spring, early April, and just hung out there for a couple weeks with them. Went back home to my family, left and took the flight in. And when we landed in and Cameron Bay, it was just like. It's just hard to believe. Like you've heard, you've had other people describe this to you, but when you get to that Door, and the airplane door is open. You walk out and go down that first step, you look out, here's all these Vietnamese. And. And we were told in training group, advanced infantry training, everybody could be the enemy. So your first thought is, oh, my God, these are potential enemies out here. I don't have no gun, no nothing except my duffel bag, right? But the stench of the countryside because they always had rice paddies around and they used human defecations to fertilize their fields. And when it's about 100 degrees, it just felt like I needed a knife just to cut through the humidity to walk down the steps. And the stench was just unbelievable. And we went down, had a little quick in country briefing. We got transport. The 5th Special Forces Group headquarters in Nha Trang, and that was in Tu Core, had a beautiful beach. And at that point In April of 1968, that was where all the training was done for in country. So we're there. We had, I think it was three weeks of in country training. Everything from patrols and our patrols. We had no combat, no, no combat of any sort. But we learned all the patrol tactics that they used and worked tac air helicopters, had classes on again about communism and whatnot. And we had every kind of helicopter except an H34, which we'll get to in a few minutes. And, and then at the end of the training. Oh, and the last week they showed the film the Green Berets with John Wayne. It's like far fucking out, man. Look at this.

[Sean Ryan]

Hell yeah.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah. So, so we get done and just like they told us in training group, the last day we're there and we had. Do all the needles and stick yourself and all this stuff, you know, how to survive, basic first aid stuff, combat wounds and things like that. Little guy comes out, we're looking for volunteers. So my good buddy Johnny McIntyre goes for what, Sarge? Can't say either you're in, you're not. Well, hell, we just saw the movie. What would the Duke do? I don't care what the guys in training group said. The Duke would go, sign me up. So we all volunteered.

[Sean Ryan]

All of you guys did?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, A lot of us, they, we had gone through the commo training together. That dude, we had been together for a year since training group basically by the time April got there. So me, Rick Howard, John McIntyre, Tony Harrell, our hands popped right up into the air. We all volunteered. We go up to, to Danang, and this is our first culture shock. We stayed at a safe house at Da Nang Safe house. It's House 22. And so we go in, we have food, eat. They got security, the area is secure. And they told us not to worry about anything. But whatever you want, you can eat. Just go up to the bar, tell them what you want. If you want to drink, eat, drink, be merry. And I forget what the prices were for the prostitutes up on the second floor, but we had lovely ladies up there that spread their wares around, you know? So that first day, Mac and I, we're there, we're eating and whatnot. And they had a couple of bar maids there. And one was really nice. She's really educated, good English. So we talked to her. And Mac and I both had girlfriends. We weren't interested in anything, so she could tell we were harmless. And we sat up with her, went upstairs, had to take a shower. So as we go up, there's this big open floor area with all these beds. You could hear a couple guys getting it on right there. So we go into the shower, there's a guy taking a shower, and in the corner, there's a young lady squatted down, shaking that Coke up and douching with a Coca Cola. So we just found a new use for Coca Cola, you know. Holy. So this is like growing up in Trenton, New Jersey. Welcome to. Welcome to South Vietnam.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

So that's a little bit of culture shock. So while we're there, some of the guys from the Mic force came in and they stayed overnight. And they were talking. They could tell that we're green as grass. So they had nothing to do with us because we're just green ass Green Berets. But they were talking about the shit they had been in, and they had helped to relieve somebody either in the asphalt valley. And the Asphalt Valley was up north, right on the border of Laos. It was a very ragged border, but that was one of the main places when the Ho Chi Minh Trail came down. There's at least two separate branches off of the Ho Chi Minh Trail that came into the Azaw, that would then go into South Vietnam to Hu and then Phu Bai, and then that later down to Da Nang area. So we were there just that moment of time hearing these guys talk about it. And it's going like, this is where we are.

[Sean Ryan]

So what were they talking about?

[John Stryker Meyer]

They had talked about the actual combat, and they were dirtied up. They literally came in, dropped their gear at the gate, and they're sitting there just talking, obviously still sweaty and wherever they had been. And it was just like, okay, these are SF guys that helped some SF team somewhere. Now I'm not sure, I just, I'm just too long ago to remember. They. Because we're new, they probably wouldn't talk about specifics anyway, but they were in contact and they had talked about what the enemy was doing, how, how tenacious they were. So the next morning, we, McIntyre and I and, and John, we all get together to go to the Da Nang airport to get a flight to fubai. And oh, we had our briefing first. I'm sorry, we had our briefing. So in the morning we go down, we get a briefing, go into the room, curtains are on the windows up front, there's a map with a sheet over it. And. And so we've been students for over a year now between basic and everything. So we're all like pulling our pads and pens out. Sergeant Major walks in. Put that shit away. This is a top secret briefing. And right in front of you there's an NDA. Read it. And if you want to stay, sign it. If you want to leave, you're welcome to leave. There's no hard feelings. And this is a top secret briefing. Said it again for good luck. So we all signed. And then the curtain. They pulled the sheet off the map. So there's a map. We're looking at. Here's South Vietnam.

[Sean Ryan]

What did the NDA say?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Say?

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, what did the NDA say?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, you can't talk about it for 20 years. If you talk about anything or take any pictures. You could be prosecuted federally. And I forget what the penalties were, but they had prison terms and fines that were all defined in the NDA. Had you talked about anything about in a sergeant major? The first thing he said was read these. You can't talk to your mama, your girlfriend or anybody. No pictures, no nothing. You can't talk to anybody about this mission unless it's somebody else that you're working with at your base. Welcome to the secret war. This is top secret, and your reports go directly to the White House. Okay, so there's the map. Vietnam, I Corps up north. Two Core, which is Khontoum, NHA Trang on the beach. Three Core, which is Saigon. Four Core, which is much bigger, but it's all the swamps and waterways. Just a horrible, horrible AO I never got down there, fortunately. And we go through then and look at Laos. Here's target boxes, 6 by 6 target boxes all the way up and down. And then in the Cambodia, some targets. So he went on to explain a little bit. This is what we do. We go across the fence into Laos or into Cambodia, you'll run top secret missions. You either be with a recon team or a hatchet force. So a recon team will be two or three Americans and you'll have indigenous personnel. And that would be, they could be Montagnards, South Vietnamese, they could be Nungs or Cambodians. In some cases they have Cambodian hatchet force. So the recon teams would be small units. Like they could be teams that run a mission. Could be 4, 6, 8, maybe up to 12. And then a hatchet force is a platoon or a company size operation. And there you would have the number of Green Berets for each squad and a platoon leader and explain that basic structure. So we all signed them, did the briefing, and then they took us over to get a helicopter up to FOB1. The next day we get the helicopter ride up. So again, it's culture shock. We had all that training with helicopters, but nobody told us about a King B. A South Vietnamese Air Force H34 helicopters developed during the Korean War and they were built by Sikorsky. They had a B17 rotary engine that the pilots essentially sat on top of. So it was a nine cylinder B17 engine. And then the back had a passenger compartment with one door on the right side. And for where we sat, when we looked up, we could see the pilot's feet on the pedals. So we're down. And so for our flight it's like, what the hell is this? And all of a sudden here's a South Vietnamese guy flying our helicopter. We're used to Americans. It's like, okay, here we go. And so me, Johnny McIntyre and John, we get in and as I sit down I see the guy on a microphone go, could. We're green, you got new starch pad, new jungle boots and everything. So we go up, we're flying up Highway 1, going down Highway 1 and it's just, just for the first flight. And so we're going along, we come, we go past the Phubai airport and we go past the 2nd Arbon Training Division. And all of a sudden the helicopter goes like this to a 90 degree on its side to a turn and it did a 360. Well, I saw that guy, I thought they were going to do something like that. But McIntyre and John Hutchins are going like, well fuck me to tears, what's going on? You know, they're hanging on like that and the door guard is going, we got him. So we turn around and we land. We get off the helicopter, a recon team gets on the helicopter. Spike Team, Idaho. The team leader, who I didn't know, is Glen Lane, and his one one assistant team leader is Robert Owen. I forget they either had four or six indigenous troops. They take off, never heard from again. Welcome to the Siku war. So we go into base, sign in, and as we go, there's a long pathway, and the second Arvin compound is right here, a big fence. And then there's the road in, and then you turn left, there was S1, S2, S3, and then on the other side was S4 for supply. So we go in, reported in S1, and I come out and I hear this voice, Tilt Meyer, and I'm with John McIntyre. So I was in A company in training group. Johnny Mac was in B Company, and we beat his softball team in every game. And the reason why we beat him was Spider Parks was our pitcher. And I hear Tilt Meyer, Spider Parks. Holy shit, Spider, you're here. We had gone through training group together, and of course he made fun of Johnny McIntyre because he's a B company puke, you know. And so then Spider took us around, showed us the base, and Mac went to a separate room and Spider said, no, you come down, you stay with me. You know us A Company guys, you B Company guys, you go somewhere else. So I went down with Spider, had a bunk with him, and they were monitoring the team progress. And after lunch, Spider goes, you know, I'm going to go to S3. Come along, I want you can meet the people in S3. He says, we haven't heard from the team. Well, they never heard from the team ever again. And two days later, one or two days later, Spike Team, Oregon went in with George Sternberg and Mike Tucker. They went in with, I think it was five or six in didch. They flew into the LZ that Idaho had landed on. They found they saw some tracks in the grass that where the team could have gone. They began to move following it, trying to figure out where the team might be. And they moved for short distance and they saw a checkpoint down on a road that was far off. I forget how far away it was, but bottom line, the NVA knew they were there. They turned around and came back and began to make contact with them. And the team went into a big bomb crater and the whole firefight started. They're in that bomb crater for a long period of time, and they started throwing hand grenades in. And then they started throwing in American hand grenades. And so George caught the first hand grenade and threw it out the Second and the third hand grenade that came in. Mike threw one out, but the next one went down further and he couldn't get it in time. And when it went off, it exploded. It literally blew his jungle boots off. Puts his plus shrapnel. And the medic on the team was severely injured and he was paralyzed from the waist down from the impact of the grenade. So there's firefights going on. They do tack air. They finally bring in the first King Bee. That's the code name for The South Vietnamese H34S. First King Bee comes in, they get the wounded and the medic get him to put them into the helicopter, they take off. The second helicopter comes in. And so it's just down to George and a couple of people. And they're right in the middle of the firefight. They're going back and forth with each other. And again tac air is being used. Helicopter comes in. George gets to the helicopter and one of the guys had been wounded. So he puts the wounded guy in. As he turns around, he sees an nvl. George is left handed. He turns around and this guy shot George with his ak and George turned around and killed him. But before he did, there's another NVA popped up. He goes to the nva then he shot him. Now, he never knew this because it happened so fast, but Spider park saw him do it because Spider was in the third helicopter. Was it what we call the chase medic? Because whenever the first one or two helicopter designed for the team, the chase helicopter is there in case the other one gets shot down or if you need a medic. And so Spider was there on the chase ship, saw George do that. But they got pulled out and they were several months recuperating from those, from those wounds and things. And we never heard from Idaho again. So with our team we were just again, divine intervention in my opinion. We had Spider Parks who had been on Idaho. He had just been promoted to a brand new team. He's going to be the 10 of another recon team. He had been promoted. Glenn Lane signed off on it, recommended he get his own recon team because Spider was just really sharp. And Hep, the interpreter who spoke four or five languages, he used to improve my English once I got to know him. And then Sale, who was the Vietnamese team leader, the counterpart to the team leader, the American Green Parade. Hep was sick, didn't go. Sal was not his rotation. They rotated because they had a 12, 10 or 12 South Vietnamese on the team. So when you ran a Mission, you'd only take four or six indig with you. Indigenous personnel. We just said indige. And on this case, Sal missed. So with Spider, he got Don Wolkin, who had some experience in country. We built the team. Spider was the 10 team leader. Don was the 11 assistant team leader. I was brought on as the 1 2, the radio operator. And we rebuilt the team. Sal and Hep went out, they hired three or four new guys. Three of them were 15 years old.

[Sean Ryan]

15 years.

[John Stryker Meyer]

15 years old. Son Chow and Cal were hired up, brought him in, and then Spider put us through the whole training process. And he and Sal worked together. And every day we did everything from the ground up, everything from just basic patrols. We go out, go outside the base and then go down through the village. And they had trails and things down there. And we would go down, do contingency drills, work through live fire. Then we go up to the range with live fire, do the same thing with the contingency drills. Rappelling off the tower, and then just classes on basic first aid stuff. And then repelling from helicopters, getting pulled down on strings. Because one of the innovations that SOG made was this whole extraction by ropes. And so that was all part of the training. Even trained our team so that a helicopter would come in. If we were. We'd be pretending that we were in a firefight. Helicopter would come in, and with the H34s, when the indigenous would get in the helicopter, first one would go to the window on the left side, and another would go through the window behind the door. So that would give us increased firepower on both sides. And then everybody else would get in the helicopter. And then you just. Every kind of training you could think of. And we just went down to the range, put thousands and thousands of rounds downrange. And that was part of the training. Up Idaho St, Idaho Fubai Fob 1. And you know, Johnny Mack was the. He had the first mission. He went out and they had a team. They inserted an elephant grass, and they had a lieutenant who was a team leader. And he jumped out of the helicopter before its wheels. Because elephant grass can be anywhere from like 8 to 12, 13ft tall. And spider told us, when you're in elephant grass, wait till you see the ground. Do not jump. You can't see the ground because you might hurt yourself. What is. The young lieutenant didn't listen to Spider, jumped out and broke his ankle. So they were compromised. And because Mac was new on the team, they decided to pull the whole team out. When they came back. They made contact before they came in with the helicopter to pick them up. And Mack came back because, holy shit, you should have seen this firefighter said, these NVA are serious out here. And they came back, put the lieutenant. And then on the Fourth of July, John was working with his web gear, and he cut through the web gear and it hit a bed post. It ricocheted up and came back, cut him through the lower. Lower through the eye and through his. Up here on his lid. And it was like he came out and the medic said, we got to take you down to the Marines. And they took him to the closest medical facility. And they passed him up a little bit. They said, we're going to let it sit overnight because we got a 4th of July party going on tonight. And during that night, the infection set in. And they took John back. And we never saw John again until we got back in the States. He was medevaced. It was like my best buddy went down. Damn right. Just like on an accident. So, so trivial. Horrible.

[Sean Ryan]

Let's talk about your very first mission.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, the first three are kind of boring, really. They were very successful. Minimal gunfire.

[Sean Ryan]

What was the mission?

[John Stryker Meyer]

They were to insert Air Force sensors. And by August and September, we had the monsoons that were going on. So when the weather would break, we try to run as many missions. So we had trained up, the Air Force had a three part sensor. They had a central unit with an antenna on it. And then it had a coaxial cable that ran for several feet. And then each unit, everything had to be buried with only the antennas behind vegetation. And so the first one we put in was in the Ashol Valley, which was at that time we had three Green Beret camps in the Asphalt Valley that were further south of where we went into this trail. And each A camp had been overrun. Just the NVA said, this is our territory. They ran those A camps out. And there's a great book out that's called Esau Valley. And it just talks about that camp. So each of those three camps were overrun and pushed out. We knew that history. We go in. Spyder was the 1 0. We took an E8 with us from S3 who was familiar with the equipment. And we had another one zero very experienced, Les Daniels from Spike Team Rhode Island. And so because Don and I were new, the plan was we would go in and Don would take some people to the north end and I would take a couple guys to the south end of where they were operating and they would all install those monitoring devices. So we were on the ground a few hours, and this was the asphalt. And we knew the asphalt by that time. We heard about it. And they had these huge punji pits. There had been a lot of rain. The monsoons had washed away some of the COVID for these punji pits. Some were as big for animals, but there were smaller ones. And as we were coming back, Don and I were walking past one of those punji pits, and he. And he slipped and started to fall into the punji pit. And I grabbed him. I said, get back here. I'm not ready to be the 11 yet. I'm just a radio operator here. We came back, we got pulled out. We were working the first cav, did the insertions and the extraction on that. And they thought we, we were going to get hit hard being in the valley. Nothing happened. And we had tac air stacked up. So when we left, the.51 caliber opened up on the east side of the Ashaw. Well, they hit that thing with napalm. They hit him with a gun run. They wiped that.51 caliber out several times, but we didn't get shot at. And then in September, we did the same thing. We had another mission. We inserted the same device, but this time it was just our team. Spider, Don and I, we went up.

[Sean Ryan]

What was the device doing?

[John Stryker Meyer]

It was monitoring anything on traffic, anything that went by. They could tell from the vibrations what it was, whether it was people, animals, or trucks or tanks. And so they would record, and then the air force would come by and electronically pick up the intel from that central command box we put in. That's what we're told. Now I'm, you know, I'm just like the low man in the totem pole here. So my job was you're going to be security. You're going to go here, you see bad guys, kill them. And if we need help, you'll be on the radio call tac air. That was my job. So I don't anything beyond the specifics. Then the second one, Don and Spider did the assertion with Sal and Hep. They did the assertion, but I was still overseeing possible attack air if we needed it and security for one of the perimeters. But it was in. Was right next to the Khe Sanh Marine Corps base there. It was one of the main roads that went past. That went past Khe Sanh.

[Sean Ryan]

What were you carrying for weapons? What was your loadout?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, I had a car 15, which was a modified M16, had a shorter barrel, and then it had the first classable stock and I loved it. It was a great weapon. And that's what I carried the whole time. So in the beginning I was only carrying maybe 500 rounds plus hand grenades. And by August we had developed sawed off M79s. We cut the handle down as much as we could, just so you had enough to hold it. And then we cut the barrel back as close as we could to the end where the wood comes out of the platform that holds the metal barrel. Cut it right to that. And we trained up on that because it was just extra firepower. So we always carry 10 or 12 rounds for that. 10 to 12 hand grenades, smoke grenades. We had both large and small smoke grenades. And then in the beginning I said like around 500 rounds. And then Spider and Don and other teams, like I talked to John Walton who had been on another team. And they had a couple of missions where they barely got out alive and they ran out of bullets. And so I then carried over 600 rounds. And we had only 20 round magazine, no 30 round magazine like today. So you had 20 round magazine, but only 18 because we were told that if you had too many the spring would not work. It may not feed them correctly. So we had the old bar web gear, had nice shoulder pads, had pouches. The pouches could hold three or four magazines, then one on top. And then we had electric tape on them. And so that's what we trained in. Just how they get those things out, Swap them out as fix as fast as you could. And what about a secondary, say again?

[Sean Ryan]

Secondary pistol?

[John Stryker Meyer]

No, we had the sawed off M79. We always carried either double odd buck or flechettes because I didn't carry a pistol. Because most of the times we were so efficient at the quick magazine change that if we were caught in a situation where they charged us and we didn't have a magazine, we still had the flechettes and that double odd buck with the M40, with the M79. That was just devastating stuff. And then later some of our guys messed around, they began putting flashettes in them.

[Sean Ryan]

What is a flashette?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Like a small dart. And so when they would come out, we just like a small part of these darts and just kill anything in its range. But then again it's close. Like a super big shotgun, you know, blade. Yep, they developed some of those. Now again, I'm told this what I personally had. We always had a double odd buck. And Doug and Lynn Black, couple of these other. They were all the weapons guys. They were always tinkering with these things to Improve them. And they'd had those flash sets that they personally designed. They would carry a couple because if they needed it, that first round would slow down anything coming at you.

[Sean Ryan]

Knife, I mean.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, I'm sorry. We had a SOG knife specially designed. We had our own supply system. SISO was based out of Okinawa, and early on they were set up so any supplies that went to 5th Special Forces Group and SOG, sometimes things would go to the agency for weapons that they needed them. And they developed what was called a SOG knife. And when I went through my end processing with S4, cut the web gear and everything, I got my SOG knife. And so we always carried that right on the web gear, on the shoulder straps, had the SOG knife right there upside down. So if you pulled it out, it's ready to go. Whereas if you're in the jungle, sometimes reaching out might be a little bit too difficult. But down here you can pull it out quickly. So that's where the SOG knife would go. Car 15, magazine pouches, hand grenades. We always had to take a mask, a gas mask with us. And then we had. After the second insertion of the Air Force sensors, we had a mission in the Ashole Valley, but it was on the east side of the Ashol. And Spider Parks at that time said, we're just going to do a practice mission. Our team's going to go in, another recon team is going to go in. We're going to do parallel movements, and if we make enemy contact, we're going to have tack air stacked up. And we just want our team to get used to the new team. So we went out, made no contact. But the second night we were on the ground, we were in an area heavily infested with mosquitoes. And in the morning, because I had a night watch up till about midnight or 1:00, but I fell asleep. When I woke up in the morning, mosquitoes had bitten my face so much I could barely open my eyes. I poured water on them and everything else just to get my face, like all puff face from those damn mosquitoes. I've never seen anything like it. But the other team was so good, they ambushed a Pathet Lao ambush that was set up for them. The Pathet Lao was the Laotian version of the Viet Cong, but they weren't as good as the Viet Cong, and we come into contact with them too often. But this other team ambushed them. So we got pulled out and Spider got promoted to Covey rider. And Covey was our. Was our forward air controller. And Covey was the code name for our facts. So it was the Air Force O2 at that time, a Cessna, push pull, engine in the front, engine in the back. And then Spyder would be the cubby rider. And the way that was designed was he always had a cubby rider who had experience on the ground so that when a team made enemy contact, the cubby rider could fill in the pilot as well as the team on the ground and talk to them through experience. And so one of our greatest learning centers for us was in the clubhouse. All the guys that would come back from a mission, they would talk to us. There's a few senior NCOs, like Spider Parks, Pat Watkins, John McGovern, they would all answer any questions we had. And when a recon team would come back from a mission, we would definitely talk to them if they would talk to us. And that's how I got to know John Walton. John was an SF medic and he was just an outstanding guy. And we met. It's one of those deals where, what does your dad do? Well, my dad's a milkman back in Trenton, New Jersey. What does your dad do? He's got a five and dime store he's running with his brother up in Bentonville, Arkansas. So what the hell's Bentonville? We teased him more and more about Bentonville than we should have, but John was a good sport of ballads. I got to know John and he had run a mission where they were TDY down in Cambodia. They got put into a target and it's supposed to be a two day mission, but it stretched out to five. They ran out of water, ran out of food, and he came back. They were in a really nasty jungle, some kind of gross. But his arms came back all cut up. His pants and everything were torn to shreds from the thorns and stuff. And they made contact. And what I remember most was John talked about it. He talked about every little thing. And that's when we began to talk. We bonded our friendship all. We played poker together a lot. John was a phenomenal poker player. And so that relationship grew with him and other guys. Whenever a team came back after a mission, if they would talk about it, we'd talk about to see if we could learn anything off of it. So I went through those three missions.

[Sean Ryan]

Why wouldn't they talk about it?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, some guys were just. We had one team that came in, they had an inexperienced radio operator that called in a gun run on his own team, killed two, wounded a couple others. And sometimes things like that you just don't want to talk about.

[Sean Ryan]

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[John Stryker Meyer]

August 3, 1968, John Walton's team, which was Spike Team, Louisiana. They were into a target on the ground a couple hours. They got overrun by the nva. And in between times, there was one time when John was sitting there and to his left was an indigenous soldier, one of the South Vietnamese. John was left handed, so his car 15 was pointed this direction and he heard a noise he looked over his shoulder and it was an NVA that popped up out of the jungle with a big Cheshire grin on his face. He stood up with his AK and John saw him. He's coming around. This guy opened fire with his ak, put four rounds into the South Vietnamese and was shooting at John. But John killed him, blew him back into the jungle. So John began to do first aid, patch up the South Vietnamese. This thing went on. They got overrun a second time. And on the last time they were getting overrun, the team leader called in a gun run on the team itself. And the A1 Skyraider made an A. Made a 20 mike. Mike 20 millimeter gun run across the team. The rounds killed one of the South Vietnamese team members. And the second with Tom was Tom Cunningham, who was the radio operator. He came into camp on Sunday or Monday. This was Saturday, 8-3-68. And the gun run 120 mic mic round hit his radio. This prick. 25 PRC 25 FM radio. The shrapnel exploded, wounding the team leader. The second round hit his leg and took off his leg. And he was flying through the air. He had an out of body experience seeing himself flying through the air with his leg dangling by sinew. And he landed. He called his name out and then he returned to his body. And within seconds John was there, began to patch him up. He passed up the team leader who had been severely wounded also. And they called in airstrikes. First helicopter comes in, Captain Tin, who was the same captain that we talked about a little earlier. Tin comes in, picks up Pete Boggs, Tom Cunningham and the South Vietnamese who's wounded. The team member who was dead, they left him at DLZ because it's August. They're in high Laotian mountains. He could only take three, so he took off. Second King Bee came in and got shot out. The third King be tempted to come in and got shot out. Well, Captain Tin heard this. He turned around and came back and landed and picked up John, who was on the ground with the South Vietnamese. And he could see the NVA coming up there. They're going shooting him with their M79 car 15s. And John told the cubby rider, if you don't get us now, we're dead. Captain Tin comes in now the H34 is too heavy to take off. He had the struts on the side, so the wheels, he lifted it up, gets running downhill all while under enemy fire. Had enough lift just to get over the treetops, but not enough transitional lift to leave. He dips down into the valley. Did two or three laps in the valley, get up speed, all while under enemy fire, then takes off and comes back to the base. They went right to the, to the medical center. And even there, when they go into this to the medical center, John goes in, they roll in. Pete Boggs was the team leader. They roll Tom in and they put the third stretcher. John puts the Indigo on the stretcher. They're going in. They go, no, no, no, we don't do South Vietnamese here because it was an American facility. John turned his car 15 and said, you will do it or you'll die right here. So they let him in. So they heard about this exchange and they went to give Tom intravenous because he lost so much blood and because of all the commotion with John. They made a scene there, obviously, and the guy, the doctor, was so upset he couldn't do it. So John went over, did the cut down and put it in Tom's intravenous to keep him alive.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, let's talk about your first firefight.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, yeah, because my. And again, so these are the guys we talked to. I talked to John that day, and just as a small footnote, he's left handed. He's dealing poker that night. We're dealing with cards. I go, hey, John, what's this thing across the top of your wrist? Oh, I hadn't seen that. Says it must have been from that NVA that shot my teammate there. So when he was pulling his gun up his car 15, the round went across and took three layers of skin off.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah. You talk about divine intervention. So we get to October, Spider Parks is flying Covey. Don Wolkman is now the team leader. I'm the assistant team leader. And we had Jim Davidson that came on the team. We were assigned a mission for October 6th and for October 5th. Just a quick footnote because this is one of our most historic SOG missions. We had a nine man recon team that went into the Ashaw Valley and they ran into 10,000 NVA. And we lost three men that day. And the NVA lost 90% casualties that day. They had a 10,000 man NVA division. The reason why we know that Len Black, who was on the team, had had a tour of duty previous with the 173rd. He took over the team because the team leader, the point man, were killed. The team leader was inexperienced. He walked the team into an L shaped ambush with 50 men. One of the men up there was a colonel, an NVA colonel. Well, that colonel called Lynn Black, 20 some years later, could they? The government had gone back to try to find the team leader's body. And Lyn had worked with the government, gave him map coordinates, things like this. Well, Lyn gets a phone call and this guy's a. He was a colonel in 68, but now he's a big general up in North Vietnam. He goes, he says, I was the commander that ambushed your team that day. So they talked back and forth. And then at the end of it, Lyn goes, we had a bad day. We lost three men. So we know this from the colonel, of course, then a general, he says, we had a bad day too. Between your recon team, tac air helicopter gunships, you inflicted 90% casualties on our 10,000 man division.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow. Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Now that's October 5th. Right around noontime, they talked about putting a bright light in. And a bright light would be a team that would go in to get down pilots. Or in a case like this, where a team was under heavy contact or if they got wounded, the bright light would go in to help relieve them and help get them out. So we were given bright light duty for that. But Lynn Black said, no, we got too much here. There's too much anti aircraft fire. We don't want to risk bringing another helicopter in. So we canceled the bright light. The next day we launched for the target. And that is the photograph on the front of across the fence where we took pictures. And we never did it again. Because if you look closely at the picture, Hep and Sal are really unhappy. They didn't want to take pictures. They were superstitious. But six man team, we got up early, launched into a target, Echo four. We had two King Bees for the insertion. So Don was the team lead, jumped out first, and we were. The helicopter came in with the right wheel and the right door facing a bomb crater. And there was elephant grass on the bomb crater. And the helicopter, because of the time of day, was warm, it was kind of moving up and down. It couldn't come to a complete hover or stable hover because the other wheel was dangling off the side. So Don jumped out and disappeared and the helicopter moved over. I waited a little bit and I thought it was close to the bomb crater, so I jumped out, missed the bomb crater because I was carrying so much weight. I rolled down the hill and then Don had rolled down the hill and then Fook, who was our point man, he jumped out and landed on the bomb crater. So the second helicopter came in, all the guys got out, but Don and I had to crawl back up the hill, up that bomb crater to just get to the damn team. And by the time we got up there, I was sweaty. I was ready to go back, I was ready to get back. I was tired. But we moved for a couple of hours, and once we moved, we in Triple Canopy, we moved for 10 minutes, stopped for 10 minutes just to listen. Because the jungle had its own vibration of life. And when we stopped moving, eventually it would come back and you hear the birds, the crickets, the insects and all this kind of stuff. And the thought was, if you stop for 10 minutes and that doesn't come back, you've got company.

[Sean Ryan]

How did you learn that?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Just from our little people. That's part of our training. We talked about it all the time. So we moved 10, 10 and 10 through the jungle and about. We'd been in maybe two, two and a half hours, and all of a sudden there is this ruckus coming towards us in the jungle. And it just sounds like, what the hell is it, the nva? So we hear the noise. Fook's the point man. He pulls over. Don gets behind him. I'm behind. And we got the car 15s out, getting ready to pull the pins off the hand grenade. You know, you know how the pins go through. Get it ready so you can pull it quickly. And we get online. Here they come. We got overrun by monkeys.

[Sean Ryan]

By monkeys.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Monkeys. What do you call a flock of monkeys? A herd of monkeys. Let's call it, for this purpose, a flock of monkeys. Overran. They had to be commie monkeys, but they overran us. And we're sitting there going, oh, Jesus. So we put the pins back in and get everything back online.

[Sean Ryan]

How many monkeys were there?

[John Stryker Meyer]

A lot. We didn't take time to count. We were just so happy to see monkeys and not NVA soldiers charging at us with AKs. So we moved maybe another hour or so. Got hit by bees, foot got stung. Don got stung really bad. So we had to stop putting mud on the. On the bee wounds. And we moved for the rest of the day. By around about 4:00 or so, we began to hear trackers shooting. And the nva, when they would knew a team was in the area, they would have code back and forth with weapons. Of course, they had radios of some sort, I assume, and we heard them begin to shoot. Sometimes we can never quite tell if they're trying to direct us into a way to go. But our mission was initially a area recon, just to find out what was going on. But they told us that there was an American POW camp that was in that target box. So Don was like, that's my priority mission. If we can get that American POW camp, that is what we have to go for. So in our minds, that's what we're going towards. We move up until last light, we get in and set up an rn, the rest overnight slot. And right before final dusk, at the last five or 10 minutes, there's a gunshot from one of those trackers who had come within 10 yards of us. And that was jarring. They fired that shot off to have them that close. So we set up the Ron. We put our claymore mines at night. And of course, with the. During the night, we would take turns rotating. And my tour duty was around one.

[Sean Ryan]

O'Clock, within ten yards, somebody shooting.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, but again, the jungle's so thick you couldn't see. I mean, with triple canopy, like, I could see Don when he's in front of me, but I couldn't see the point man who Don could see and the person behind me could see me, but. And that was Hep the interpreter, and Hep couldn't see Don. That's how thick that vegetation is when you're moving.

[Sean Ryan]

That's about the width of this room.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, absolutely. We have our six men in this. In this area and not able to see each other.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Sure. So.

[Sean Ryan]

So you guys only moved during the daytime?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, yeah, we had. We would have. We would have killed for some of your nogs. And so we set up the Ron. I was up at 1 o'clock and I heard something move. I could have sworn it moved. And it finally got in front of one of our claymores. I couldn't tell if it was a tiger or if it was that the tracker. I wasn't sure. I told Don, I said, look, I've been listening to this thing. It's in front of the claymore. Of course, what we had been told was the nva, if they had a chance, they would get a claymore and turn it around. So if you fired it off, it would come back and you'd get the whole blast of the ball bearings in the claymore mine.

[Sean Ryan]

So I thought they were that good.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, yeah, they had done it. We had teams that they had done that to. So I told Don, I said, I think I got an NVA in front of the claymore. There's something out there, I want to blow it. And he said, no. I said, I thought he said, go. So I clacked that. I get that old MK57 clack that Claymore. It goes off. It was quiet for the rest of the night, but Don was pissed. Sal was really pissed with me for firing that thing off. So first light, we moved out. We moved again, 10 and 10 throughout the day. Round about 12:30, 1:00, we had the. We were trying to get up this one mountain to go down. And the jungle was so rugged with the rock formation and everything and the growth. There's like a little goat trail that kind of started down here and went up and so we got out on the goat trail.

[Sean Ryan]

How could you guys? I mean, how do you navigate in shit that thick?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Our little people were so good. Don was good with a compass. And we just, you know, Sal and Fook. Fook was our point man for that mission. And then Sal had trained him up, so we told him where we're going. And they knew. They worked, of course, on that mission. Don was doing all the coordination between the point man and talking to Hep for anything further. So looking.

[Sean Ryan]

Looking for a POW camp. Yeah, within a target square. How big is the target square?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Six by six box. Six click. Six click by six click.

[Sean Ryan]

So how would you guys. How would you look for. What was the method to find a.

[John Stryker Meyer]

POW in this case? We. We had to. We knew we had to move away from the LZ and go to a general area that the intel reports were approximate where it was. So we were en route to that. We had been in the jungle moving. It got so rough. We found this little goat trail. So normally we just stayed away from trails, but on this day, we went out. And by now I was the fifth man in the formation. Sal was the tail gunner. I'm fifth man, Hep. And then Don and then Fook. Running point and Robinson, our sixth man, was between us. And so we're going up this trail maybe for must have been like a half hour or so. We really done some extensive climb. It's pretty steep. At one point, when you get near the top, when you start to turn, Sal is back there, just he and I. He goes. He makes this really loud hissing sound. I turn around and he's looking backwards and he's pointing down the hill where we had come. There were two NVA tall NVAs with pith helmets, AK47s at Port Arms, standing there in black. And they look tall. They may have even been Chinese. So I told Sal, I'm gonna get the M79, put a round on those. He said, no, no, tell Vulcan. So I told Don at that point, he took us straight up the hill, got to the top of a little knoll. We got up there about 2:00 or so. We set up a defensive perimeter up there. He says, get on, get on the line, call Tac Air. We're going to be in a prairie fire emergency. So I get on the radio, make a couple calls, no response. And we were in the perimeter. We had a little break. I'd get a can of apricots out, I could use a break. So I'm opening my apricots. Fook Hep and Sal opened fire and then Davison opened fire. And it's like, do Mammy. And up the hill, we're coming. NVA and Sal had heard them first and blew them back down the mountain. Well, I spilled my apricot nectar, put the can down, get into the firefight. And the firefight went on. They kept coming back at us time after time up that. Up that little mountain, up the hill. But the hill was small enough that there could only be so many people. And some guys came up from the side and some came up from the left side, but the vegetation was rough. We're on top of that hill. Sal could tell them when they were coming and foot could hear them. And this went on. Now I'm on the radio. We have a prairie fire emergency. So when a team is on the ground and when we're in Laos, not in Cambodia, but in Laos, if you caught a prairie fire emergency, any and all attack air that was within any distance would be diverted from their targets to come cover us. And of course, that would include the A1 Sky Raiders, the old Korean War planes, but those are the ones we love the best. They could stay on station the longest with the most ordinance. They could carry the same amount of weight that a B17 carried in World War II. But this was a single engine, huge engine, and most of them were single pilots. The A1E was a two face with a pilot and a co pilot. But they didn't use those too much for SOG missions because they are just so. They just need as much orders as we could get. And nobody answered the radio. This firefight went on for well over two hours. Finally, I forget, we made contact with somebody. It may have been a Phantom jet. He gets a hold of Spider, Spider Parks, comes over. We were close to that. The hill there was a little bit more open area. I was able to get the mirror flash, flash it in so Spider could locate exactly where we were. And then within a short while, we attack air.

[Sean Ryan]

And how close were these guys getting?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, if we were like here, the jungle would be that wall, and they would be coming out of that wall.

[Sean Ryan]

Holy shit. So we're talking. Yeah, five, six yards at the most.

[John Stryker Meyer]

And again, a lot of it's so weird because the jungle was so thick. Could. They could see what they're coming towards us. If they're coming up the hill, they would be firing at us. And then we would see the. The gunfire or their feet or something from their bodies first. We would never even see their face with them. But they kept coming, you know, and at one point, and I forget if it was before or after, we reached Spider for the tac air, but Don Walken came over to me because sometimes there'd be, like, a little break, and he goes, look at what they're doing. I couldn't tell. He says, no, look. He says, you see the bodies? They started stacking up the dead bodies at the top of that hill because they wanted to get the bodies stacked up so he could climb up on the bodies so they could shoot down at us.

[Sean Ryan]

So they were using the bodies as a barricade?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, and to climb up on it because they knew that we had the advantage on the height, and they wanted to get the dead bodies so they could shoot down at us. They stacked them up. We stacked them up.

[Sean Ryan]

You guys stacked them up?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, we killed them, then they stacked the bodies. And I was like. That stuck with me. Because if the NVA after you kill them and they put their dead buddies there to climb up to kill us, that tells you about the dedication of these guys. So at some point, I'm firing into the. Into next batch of NVA coming at us and opened fire. And I thought he was shooting over my shoulder, so my ear was shattered. I just couldn't hear for shit. And I didn't say anything because we were just so busy fighting. So the next day when we debrief in the hooch, we all came back at their mission. We'd always talk about it with the entire team, with Spider and the Hep. At the end of it, I turned to Fook. I said, fook, why are you shooting over my shoulder? He goes, dumbass. There were three NVA that were crawling up the hill. They were aiming at you. I killed them before they killed you. And so I was so focused here. And thank God Fuch saw them there. And so we went on. That was the first time.

[Sean Ryan]

How did that. I mean, how did that end?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, we finally had tac air, and the first run we had was an A1, A1 Skyraider a napalm run. Specific. I'll never forget it. And Spider got low on fuel. He connected me with the Skyraider pilot, so he knew where we were. We popped smoke. He came in and said, we're going to do a napalm run. And I told him, bring as close as you can, because they kept coming at us. And he says, now, y'all put your head down. It's crispy critter time. He came in with that napalm run. It's the first time I ever smelled human flesh burn. He was that close. Just takes your air away. Came back with gun runs. Then he did CBU runs, cluster bomb units. And then the judge and the executioner showed up. And there were gunships attached to from the marecal division, the 176th, and the Muskets. And they had boarded with us at FOB1. So we knew them by name. And they did amazing gun runs on all three sides because they're coming at us from the front and on the sides. And at one point they were crawling up the hill. I was on the radio with Spider. You could just see this guy crawling up the hill. So I'm talking to Spider quietly, and then the guy stuck his head up and he just fired one round. But I forgot to let go of the radio. And the shot hurt his ears. But he could tell that we had been in this contact for so long. So finally he sees an LZ that we couldn't tell, but it was elephant grass. And the elephant grass is 8 to 12ft tall. And it was right behind us where we had no or only minimal enemy contact. He says, you just go past that, there's the elephant grass. And it was maybe again, 10 or 12 yards at the most, but it was that thick stuff. So we go, we're pushing through, but so hard to get through it. I fell down. Then woken walked across my back. All the guys walk on my back. Woken fell down. We stood at his back. Meanwhile, I'm directing gun runs with the helicopter and a King Bee that came in on that coin that we showed you earlier. Captain Tinh from the South Vietnamese Air Force, the 219th Squadron, came in and hovered in that elephant grass because he couldn't land. There were small trees there. Had he landed, the blades would have just destroyed the helicopter. But he hovered for 10 minutes. So we struggled to get through this elephant grass in between shooting at the nva, directing gun runs. And we finally get to the King Bee. And at one point the gun runs came by so close it was the first time, I had shell casings go down the back of my neck from the judge and the executioner, and. But I was like, oh, shit. But that's like, that's cool. Thank you. You know, because they were that close, shooting the NVA coming at us. And Captain Tin hung up there. Don and I threw all the guys in. Don grabbed my shirt and his hand slipped. And by now my adrenaline's pumping. I grabbed him and threw him up, all 220 pounds, up into. Up into the King Bee. And then he reached down and grabbed me, pulled me in, and we left. So I'm down on my last magazine, last hand grenade. And as we pulled out, it's almost. Almost dark. And it was just the weirdest thing, because as we're leaving, you look back at the jungle, this rich, dark green, emerald green. Here's all these little sparkling lights from AK47s and green tracers coming up at our King Bee. So for me, that's my first major firefight. Holy shit. Only by the grace of the Lord did we get out of there. And thanks to Captain Tin, this is another significant moment for me. We're in the helicopter now. We lift up. We're finally past all that. We fired off our last bullets, the last grenade. We're flying back as. Beautiful sunset. Most beautiful sunset I've ever seen in my life. Because we're, like, alive, you know? And so I look over at Sal, and Sal goes. He gave me a nod. When Spider introduced me to Spike Team Idaho, Sal turned the head. He goes, he's too tall. His feet are too big, and he looks stupid. But on that day, October 7, 1968, he gave me a nod, and he's like, you've done good. And to me, I'll never forget that moment, because by that point, we were on a team. We were tight. Sal saved us on the ground. I did all the airstrikes. Get back to fubai. Captain Tin, you saved our ass. Come on, let me buy you a drink. No. My wife is holding dinner for me at home. I want to see my children. So two days later, he comes back. He goes, you know, we had 48 bullet holes on that helicopter. Well, needless to say, whenever the King pilots came, they never purchased any drinks. Not in our club. And so Captain 10 saved John Walton on August 3rd. That was our day.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

He came back, he and those guys, later, on several missions, they just under enemy fire. And there was at least. That day, there was at least one other day where we had been in a firefight.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, hold on.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

So you guys come back?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah. Oh, there's a floor show on a what? A floor show. There was some kind of a floor show, like an Australian floor show in a club. Normally, when the team would come back after a firefight, like what we had been through, there'd be guys out there with beer. There'd be a truck and everything, and. But this night, there was just one guy with a truck, no beer. And we took us back, and because I was the radio operator, Don went in to report to S3 or to S2, give them the intel briefing. I got the team, gave them the food and stuff, and there was a floor show, so nobody came out. And so I go into. Into the club. There's John Walton. John's there, and we're talking back and forth. And so John goes, hey, did you kill anybody today? Yeah. So, you know, for the first time, I could tell you I killed a man. Don't feel good about it. But, you know, that's war. Because that guy stuck his head up and I hit him. And it sticks with you, you know, Spider Parks came over and said, you know, you had that firefight. You hurt my ear. He said, but you did the right thing, because if you didn't kill him, think about what he could have done to the team. So that was my welcome. That's the real war right there, man. And they were serious, and we never forgot that moment with them stacking up the bodies of their comrades so they could kill us. And we're just lucky to get out of here. Captain Tin, he's still alive today, out there down in Carlsbad, Colorado, California. He's down there with his son. Every once in a while, we talk to him to try to give a little call, stay in touch.

[Sean Ryan]

So when that guy stuck his head up, what went through your head that exact moment?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, he's a bad guy. He's got to go. Didn't even know. Not none of this thinking about it. You know, there are other times we were in firefights. I can remember my third grade teacher, Sunday school teacher, Myrtle Reichert, she said, thou shalt not kill. I heard her voice more than once saying, thou shalt not kill. But I said, sorry, Myrtle, you know, this is us or them. We're at war right now. I'm sure the Lord understands that. Besides, we're killing communists. My favorite kind of Communist is dead. And so I really didn't think about it now. I talked about it with John. It really hit home. And then Spider, afterwards, came by and talked to me and says, remember, in the future, don't you let that radio go when you're shooting, because you heard our ears up there in the plane. And then we had the team meeting the next day when Fuck told me that and learned lessons, learned what we could do better. And then with that, Don got promoted to a cubby rider.

[Sean Ryan]

How many enemy combatants do you guys think he killed that day?

[John Stryker Meyer]

I have no idea. Because of the limited frontage and the fact that once it came up from the sides, I know Fook had killed some more that came up. And from the ones in front, I mean, to have enough to stack up bodies that were, as I looked at it, looked like they had to be at least a foot off the ground, maybe more from the dead bodies that they're stacking. And they were stacking them down the hill. So they wanted to get up on that stack to shoot at us. So we never counted. And the majority of them were just in the front of that jungle edge and into the jungle that went right down the hill because they had to get up that hill to get to us.

[Sean Ryan]

So probably two, three bodies high.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah. Yeah. So we don't never knew how many or how many were wounded. We had cases, other teams, when they would kill the NVA and they'd go over the area and there'd be no bodies, but you see the blood trails where the NVA would pull her dead out. They were hardcore. And by 1968, the NVA had 25,000 troops that were in Laos at least, and they had developed hunter killer SOG teams. These teams were designed to hunt our SOG teams and make contact. And they'd be sappers. They only wore a loincloth, maybe some sandals, and they would carry an AK and a magazine, and they would come in or a hand grenade, and they would come in just to kill the Americans, leave the indig alive just for psyops and the Sappers. In August 23rd of 68, the Sappers had hit our base camp at Da Nang, and they had prepared for it for over a year. And they killed 16 Green Berets in one day and FOB four. And that was the most serious casualties in SF Special Forces history was that day at Da Nang. And I wasn't there for that. I was up at FOB 1, heard about it, and we sent down a relief force that went down and relieved the camp and helped them clean up, get the dead bodies and stuff. But I missed all that because we were getting ready for our. Our insertion the next day. On the sensors. We were doing mission prep on that with the team.

[Sean Ryan]

How quick after that first firefight was the next mission?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, Don got promoted, and a couple days after the mission, Jim came up to me. And Jim was. He was outstanding on that day on that hill. He was there, rock solid. He said, till he says, I spent a year with the 173rd in combat. I ain't never seen no shit like this. Never. I can't do it, brother. I don't want you to feel like I'm letting you down. Said, no, no, no. So I'm glad you told me, because that day, you were there with me, our team, and you were part of us against them. And you can always tell your grandchildren that you and me and Don, the team we stood up against the communists, and you were an outstanding soldier. I'll be forever in your debt for that. And so you just tell me what you want to do, and thank you for being honest. So I went to the sergeant major. We got him a new assignment, and then he left a couple weeks later. But he never said goodbye. But he did well that day, and it was not an issue. So then I had to get a new assistant team member. And a couple days later, Bubba Shore and the Frenchman, Don Doug the Frenchman letourneau, arrived at FOB1. And this new guy just gone through training group. They came up to the base, and John McGovern, somehow, he had heard about the Frenchman, and he liked the Frenchman. So he told the Frenchman, we got to get you on Spike Team Virginia. And so Doug went to Spike Team Virginia, and we heard about John Bubashore. And so we recruited John. He came over, trained him up, and by the end of the month, we ran a couple of general missions. And then November, we just had balls to the walls. And we got several. Several different missions out of there that were just amazing. And it was just bub and I. And by that time, I so respected the Vietnamese on our team. I didn't want a third American. Because our little people were so good in the jungle. They always ran point. We usually had them on the tail gunner position. And so that's where we started up.

[Sean Ryan]

How did you feel when you got the nod?

[John Stryker Meyer]

I carried that, too with me today, Sal. Gaming that nod. I was just like, oh, my God. I was officially nod of approval. It took a while, you know, from June or the end of May there to October 7, 1968 A.D. but it was well worth the wait. And we never. And we. We always got along, but that was the official. Okay, you're part of the team. You've done good. And we all knew about Sal because he, he and Hep, by 68, they've been running for over two and a half years, missions across the fence.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, yeah, I know. Tuan had been running for a couple years. He was our grenadier. He could put a 40 millimeter grenade up a gnat's ass at 500 yards. I mean, he was so good with that thing. Just phenomenal firepower and good people. So Bub and I, we had a. In early November, not one of my finer moments. But we had trouble finding LZs. So somebody came up with the bright idea of, let's get a daisy cutter. Look for a swath of jungle where there's no trails, no roads visible from the air. We'll drop a daisy cutter in it, it'll knock down all the trees, and then the team can land or rappel in. They get on the ground and then do an area recon. Right there. Okay, so that's us. So the first day, I forget what the aircraft was that carried a 2,000 pounder, but it had a daisy cutter. So I'm the team leader. I'm on the King Bee, has two steps into the King Bee and I'm stepping out and the bomb goes off. We can see the bomb and the King Bee's falling in right behind it. You know, the dust is settling and the King Bee couldn't land, so he hovered. I repelled down halfway down the rope. I could hear somebody yelling across that area where again, there's still dust in the air, but nobody's shooting at me. So I'm going down the rope and I hear another voice. So there's one up to where I'm facing and one back here in the area where we just blew up a bomb. So I land and I give Henry King, who was a straphanger with us that day, I gave him the sign, no, the mission's canceled. I get on the radio, I tell Covey, we're compromised, there's people here. Because when you're compromised, why go on with the mission? Our job is to go in and snoop and poop. So the mission is canceled. I unhook the King Bee, takes off, and I'm on the ground for a while. I can hear more people coming back and forth. And finally I see an NVA come down, open fire on him. Don't have it anymore with him. But they're still, they're talking back and forth. I can't tell what they're saying. Because I just grew up in Trenton. My foreign language is English, let alone Laotian or whatever we're speaking. So finally, the King Bee comes back. Captain Tuong is flying, dropped the rope down. I hook in, and we had a Swiss seat, and it's a rope Swiss seat. You tie it in, tie it off on the side, and then you have a D ring. And then the Swiss seat comes down with a sandbag and a D ring on it. You hook the D ring in, you get pulled up, and then you have a D ring on your shoulder harness that you're supposed to hook into. So if you get shot, your body remains in the seat and on the rope. Well, as Captain Tuong begins to lift off, I gave him the sign. He lifts off. I can see the NVA again. So I shoot another NVA soldier coming up the rope. Somebody else is shooting at the helicopter now. So I turn around and shoot where the gunshots are coming from. But I can't. I don't see any people. I just see the gunshots. I turn around, firing M79 round at them. Now we're getting lifted up. Captain Tu Wong hears the gunfire. I'm not out of the jungle yet, so he pulls me through the jungle. So now it's like we're playing pinball, but I'm the pinball here. And we're ricocheting off the trees. I had not hooked up my D ring yet, so I ricochet a few times and I get bounced back and forth into. Both of my arms are cut up from the rope as we're getting. As they were getting bounced around. Finally we come out of the jungle and he lifts up further and we're going back to South Vietnam. And I tried to get the D ring horn. I couldn't get a hook because of the wind. You know, where we're flying 90, 90 miles an hour, whatever the speed is, we're going. And I point up the king. Let's go down, you know. And so I can see him, but he's like 150ft away. I'm down there dangling, and I'm moving, I'm rotating my arms because my arms have been really cut up here. And as I went to rotate, hit a packet of air or something flipped me upside down. And as I'm upside down now, I look up one more time, I go to King like this. My web gear and my backpack all comes back on my neck. And I got my leg spread. The Swiss seed is down to my knees.

[Sean Ryan]

Shit.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, yeah. And so I could feel this Choking off. I'm trying to pull the web gear and the backpack. It's all on my neck. I can't get it off. It's like, ah, this is not good. So finally we get another air pocket and the rope goes down to my feet. And I'm hanging by my feet. The Swiss seat is on my feet. I'm choking out now. And I'm just like a New York City hooker. My legs spread there, just trying to keep that rope on my feet. And my life flashes before my eyes right before I'm ready. I know I'm going to pass out. I've passed out once before in my life. I knew what that feeling was. So I'm getting ready to pass out. Bing. There's the front page of the newspaper back in Trenton. I'm really pissed because the front page of the Trenton Times has my death in South Vietnam as a lie. I died in Laos. B It's below the fold. By 1968, our guys had been dying. Such common news that we didn't rate above the fold on page A. One of the trend times. I saw my girlfriend from kindergarten, the girl who broke my heart when she moved to California, Dolores. Saw my car, a couple other things, my dad's milk truck. And I passed out. What I didn't realize was Captain Tuong had been descending. And when I passed out, it was right over a patch of elephant grass. So I fell maybe 12, 15ft at the most. I was unconscious. Henry King jumped out, took off my web gear, pulled the stuff off my neck, picked me up, threw me in the King Bee. And it was one of those moments where as I hit the floor, I was like, oh, God, that hurts. But, oh, I'm happy. That's happy pain. I'm alive and all my web gear, my car 15, my sawed off M79 with a stylized holster and my SOG knife. They're all still there in Laos. But we got out, flew back, went to S4, went to S3 first, gave them a quick briefing, and we had to get new gear, geared up. The next day, we were back for another mission.

[Sean Ryan]

Damn.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, yeah. And the other sidebar to that, the day before that, I repelled in, they did the Daisy Cutter. And the Daisy Cutter exploded. And as I was going to. As the helicopter began to descend, we had secondary explosions. They had over a dozen secondary explosions. So here we were with the best intel available at the time, figuring this is a chunk of jungle where there's nothing there. We just repel it and do an area recon. We blew up one of Ho Chi Minh's caches. Wow. And to this day, Ho Chi Minh is trying to figure out how we figured that out by mistake.

[Sean Ryan]

Damn.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Just another day in sog. Oh, yeah. Just crazy.

[Sean Ryan]

John, let's take a quick break.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Sure.

[Sean Ryan]

Then we'll just pick up right where we left off.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, great. Fair enough.

[Sean Ryan]

I know everybody out there has to be just as frustrated as I am when it comes to the BS and the rhetoric that the mainstream media continuously tries to force feed us. And I also know how frustrating it can be to try to find some type of a reliable news source. It's getting really hard to find the truth in what's going on in the country and in the world. And so one thing we've done here at Shawn Ryan show is we are developing our newsletter. And the first contributor to the newsletter that we have is a woman, former CIA targeter. Some of you may know her as Sarah Adams, call sign Superbad. She's made two different appearances here on the Sean Ryan show, and some of the stuff that she has uncovered and broke on this show is just absolutely mind blowing. And so I've asked her if she would contribute to the newsletter and give us a weekly intelligence brief. So it's gonna be all things terrorists. How terrorists are coming up through the southern border, how they're entering the country, how they're traveling, what these different terrorist organizations throughout the world are up to. And here's the best part. The newsletter is actually free. We're not gonna spam you. It's about one newsletter a week, maybe two. If we release two shows. The only other thing that's gonna be in there besides the intel brief is if we have a new product or something like that. But like I said, it's a free CIA intelligence brief. Sign up link's in the description or in the comments. We'll see you in the newsletter. I'd like to invite you to gain access to an exclusive experience on Vigilance Elite, Patreon. Our patrons are the driving force behind the success of this show, and their support allows us to keep doing what we do. Depending on the tier you choose, you'll get access to benefits like behind the scenes footage before each interview, early access to episodes, end of the month live zoom calls with me, exclusive merch and more. Join us and become a patron starting at just $5 a month by visiting patreon.com VigilanceLead that's patreon.com VigilanceLead.

[John Stryker Meyer]

All right.

[Sean Ryan]

John, we're back from the break, indeed.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Thank you.

[Sean Ryan]

We're getting ready to hit November.

[John Stryker Meyer]

November 68th.

[Sean Ryan]

November 68th. First, though, where did the name tilt come from?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Ever play pinballs?

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah.

[John Stryker Meyer]

See, when you play a pinball machine and you lose, you walk away pissed off. When I play a pinball machine and lose, I shake the shit out of it. See my name in neon, then I walk away.

[Sean Ryan]

Right on.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Indeed.

[Sean Ryan]

Let's get into November.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, November, that was. That was one of our crucible months there. You know, Bubba and I, we teamed up. By that time, we were comfortable with each other. And the little people, they really liked Bubba a lot. Good man. And so after. After that mission we had, we had a couple days where in the morning we would fly into an lz, primary get shot out, secondary get shot out, and then the alternate again get shot out, go back, have lunch. They wanted to get a team on the ground so bad that they would say, here's your new target. And then here's Covey, Covey, go find him in lz. Because before that we were doing visual reconnaissance. We fly over the target area, look for, pick out lzs, get familiar with it. But one of the issues, by that time, one of the issues that we were dealing with was how much SOG was compromised. We knew that wherever we took off from, whether it was from FOB1 or whether it was, we had a launch site at Quang Tri. And then later we had FOB3, which is at Khe Saw that was closed in June, but they moved the title to MyLock. And they were there until the end of November. They suspected that they had observers there. So whenever ARC helicopters would fly west from South Vietnam into Laos, that they would give a vector where we were going. And we know that they had observers at the borders. So when we went across into Laos, we assumed that somebody would say, here comes the helicopter. There are this vector boom. We never knew how much we were compromised. That's why it's going to be a next story in my fourth book that I write. This is just how much we were compromised. And during this time, Bub and I learned that one morning in the South Vietnamese Air Force when they inserted a team, they didn't do a low nap of the earth thing because in Laos, we had the mountains and everything. And they had what they called falling yellow leaf, where they would. Because of the way the engine was designed, they could put it in neutral and they would spiral down. At the last second, they would engage flare, land, bing, we're out the door. They take off the Second chopper would come in the same thing. On this mission. We had gotten shot off an lz. We're going to the secondary. We're going in. As we're doing this, just start the spiral foot or sow, I forget which one yelled to the door gunner and we aborted. I'm going like Kumbiak. What happened? And they saw a wire. Somehow they saw a wire across the LZ. That wire was attached to a 500 pound bomb. Had we hit the wire, it would have triggered the bomb, which would have destroyed us and the helicopter.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

So we knew we were able to.

[Sean Ryan]

See that coming in.

[John Stryker Meyer]

I know, not me. We're talking about my little people here. Oh, they were phenomenal. It was like a miracle. It's just another day in solid. But this is today's miracle for us to get out of Echo 4. In my mind to this day is always a major miracle. But in that case, it was just unbelievable. So we go back, we had this. We finally had another mission. We're on the ground, we get shot out within a day, leave with not too heavy contact.

[Sean Ryan]

What was that mission?

[John Stryker Meyer]

It was just an area recon they put us in. We're on the ground. We had trackers early and some guys would tend to elongate the mission and I would try to push it as far as we could. But once I thought we were compromised. And then Spider park said, if you're compromised, they know where you are. It's just a question of time before they get enough people together to wipe your team out like they did with Idaho in May. So I tended to be very conservative that way. We got out, no problem. So next day, another day, we go in. Primary, secondary, alternate, lunch, primary, secondary, alternate. We finally, on the next day, we finally got inserted in the afternoon and the weather was spotty. We get inserted and we had Henry King with us and he was carrying the experimental pump M79 just for extra firepower. We were going into. The Target was Echo 8. It was a target that had a lot of enemy activity. We didn't know quite why. And we got in. And the lz, the Laotians do slash and burn. So they would slash an area, cut down all the vegetation, grow crops until the soil got depleted, then they would burn it out. Well, we had an area where, where we landed. I put the team on the ground. We went up this mountain and then instead of doing the 10 and 10, I just wanted to do something different. And we got on the ground, we moved for almost an hour. We finally came to A trail. The trail was big enough to drive a tank down it. And it was a kind of trail from the air. You couldn't see it because the NVA and the indigenous people they forced to work with them tied branches over so you would never see it from the air. So we get this big trail, we cross it, there's a telephone pole. Sal goes up, hooks up the wiretap, we set up an ambush. And our ambushes were designed where this is by Lynn Black, who specifically designed this, where we had a block of C4 so that six feet away from that block, any person would be knocked unconscious by the blast of the C4. Anything outside of that blast would be claimed. More mines that would kill everything else, both in front, excuse me, and in back of that person that was knocked unconscious. So we set up the ambush. Claim wars are put out. Claim wars for side security. Claim wars in the back. Sal's running the wiretap. We're sitting there and Bubba goes, hey, we can get us an R and R. Because they had the rule if you captured a live POW, you got $100 and you got an R and R anywhere in the world.

[Sean Ryan]

$100?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah. Big. That's 1968. Big money in 68, man.

[Sean Ryan]

Was it?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, hear me tell that's still big money today for this beyond. But anyways, so we're like, yeah, we're joking about it. Spider came out for combo check. Now we've been on the ground now for three or four hours and he's flying covey. And I give him the code. Spider code, whatever it was, we got a pow, we'll have one. We'll meet you at the LZ in one hour. He comes back and says, I'm at 10,000ft. I can't see the mountain you're on, let alone an lz. I'm telling you, whatever you're doing, stop. Get to the top of the mountain and wait till the weather blows over. The weather closed in. We're going to be socked in for three or four days. So don't make enemy contact. If you do, we can't come and get you. And with no tack air. Okay, so we pulled down the wiretap, pulled in the ambush, and as they're doing that above us, we hear tanks up the mountain, literally a tank sounding and another truck starting up. And when we had the, we first got there, we set up the, the ambush, the NV air walking up and down the road. Kai's had the. They had their AKs on their shoulders. We saw A couple officers. But I wanted to get the clearance from spiders. So if we could blow it to get a quality pow. Well, if the spider says don't do it. We pulled everything in and then we went to the left because we had come up the mountain and we moved out. We crossed the trail because the trail kind of bent up the mountain and we crossed it again. And when we cross it, we do one man at a time. Person in the same footsteps going across. And the tail gunner comes by and cleans it up. We moved for a while and it's getting dark now. And then we could hear dogs, dogs down by the lz. So it's almost dark now. Sal climbs up the tree. I have Sal go look, see what we got coming at us. He comes back, his eyes are like saucers. He told Hap Buku vc, and we could hear the dogs. Now there's several dogs coming up that mountain. And he goes, there's Buku vc and he says, they're from here, meaning all this area is down the mountain from us with Buku lights. And he could see some places where there's actually NVA behind the lights. So we don't know how many, but they're coming and coming hard. So we moved a little further. Right about dusk, we got into a stream and we turned left and went up the stream for maybe a half hour, 45 minutes. And I had the team go out a couple times to make false trails for the dogs. And then we put down black pepper and patterned mace. So if the dog hit it, it was fuck up their nose. So we went further for like I said, it was dark. We're not used to moving at night, but I wanted to get as much distance between us and the dogs as possible. Sal agreed because whenever I did anything like that through Hep, I would talk with Sal, let Bubba and Henry King, who was strap hanging with us, let them know on this mission we had eight men. So we finally come to an area in that stream bed. We climb up and we set up an ron with the eight guys. And I'm facing the little stream bed or the creek, whatever it is, but there's water in it. So we hear more dogs. We can hear the noise down there. About midnight, one o'clock, two NVA walk past us in the stream or the creek. They go up for a while. Their lantern ran out of fuel. They turn around, they come back. Now I can hear him. I don't know if anybody else on the team could. Later, on foot told me he could hear him, but Again, we're not talking because I'm facing that. And Book was on my right, but he was facing another direction. But I could have touched him if I wanted to. So I'm pointing here, they walk past. They're right about here in front of me in that little creek. Hep coughed. They stopped at that point. One of them turned around and only when the wind blew he would start crawling up the mountain towards me. When the wind blew. I could hear him move when the wind blew. And I was sitting there like this, feet spread. Car 15 on single shot. So I figured if it happens, it's going to be just one shot. So it's going to take. Because at that point we're playing hide and go seek with the NVA army there. They're trying to find us. Well, eventually he gets to me.

[Sean Ryan]

So they knew you guys were there?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

How did they know?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Helicopter. It's just so damn noisy.

[Sean Ryan]

Did you guys ever do false insertions?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh yeah, yeah, we did that fake insertion, sometimes do two or three touchdowns and then get out of the helicopter. The third LZ we did that, we did it in Cambodia as well as Laos and Laos was a little harder because of the mountains, but it was a tactic. One thing we did and plus with the concern about being compromised, we would have a briefing and we put down primary, secondary, alternate lz, send it to Saigon. Then when we had the actual pre mission briefing with the helicopter pilots and Covey, we pulled Covey aside and say, go find us another LZ in a secondary because we know we're just compromised. We don't want to take a chance on them waiting for us again with another 500 pound bomb. So that was one way to deal with it. So anyway, this guy comes up, he, he touched my boot. I could hear him catch his breath. I'm just waiting. If he had moved suddenly, he would have been dead. But he waited.

[Sean Ryan]

Touched your boot?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, my size 10. I was wearing a size 10 regular at the time. Touched my left foot. He touched it. I heard him catch his breath. If he moved suddenly, it would have been his last move. But he waited. I mean he sat there for. Well by this time. You know how time extends itself. I mean seconds turned into minutes and hours. But when the wind blew, he backed up, wind blew again, he went down, finally gets to his buddy and both of them left. So this is all. It took a while. And I want to say it happened around maybe 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning. I just forget. I mean I had the, my seiko watch on. I could see, look at what time it was after he left, but I just forget what time. At first light, we were up and out of there, and we moved up that mountain all day. And twice. Once or twice, our point man, who now was son, and he had Sal right behind him, they encountered woodcutters, but none of the woodcutters had weapons, and they were indigenous people. And there was nobody there to make it appear as though they were affiliated with the NVA in any way. So we continued to move, and, you know, we had gotten near the top, and at one point we took a break. And I'm beat because we had moved all day. We just broke now here we were doing 10 and 10 to really be cautious, but we're going up that mountain. And then we took a break for chow. But we continue to move as much as we could because we just wanted to get to the top of the mountain before dark. Set up a strong RO in at night with extra claymores. And I went to stand up, and I fell down. I literally fell on my face. So I get up again, fall down again. I land on my face, and I'm lying there. It's like all I want to do was roll over and go to sleep. I was so tired and so beat. And after last night with the. I didn't get much sleep that night, and. But I knew the whole team was looking at me, and I'm going like, you just got to get your weary ass up. So I finally got up. We got up to the top of the mountain, set up a nice Ron. Sal's guys did wonderful work with the claymores. And that night, around about 1 2:00, and we always had combo checks. They had an airborne command control ship that flew over Southeast Asia 247 in our case. They would usually fly by around midnight, 1:00. We'd do a commerce check. And because the NVA had really extensive RDF near the radio direction of finding equipment, we would just do click, click with the handset, and then they would say, roger, received. So they knew we were okay if there was a situation we had to report. But anyway, they did the midnight combo check. About an hour and a half, two hours later, Bubba wakes me up. He goes, you won't believe this shit. Look at the mountain. So, like, a couple mountains over, the whole mountainside lit up with bright lights. So we begin scanning on the dial, and we get Russian. There's a Russian aircraft coming in for an aerial resupply in layoffs to the NVA Wow. So now I get on, I'm on the radio. I'm doing my ERC10, my emergency radio frequency, which is like 243 ultra high. And we carried those. If the other raiders didn't work and did the radio, all different frequencies, I can't get anybody. It's like, where's the cop when you need one? But they came in, they did the resupply, and left. And that was a weird night. So we were up there for three more days. Spider would come by with combo check, just let us know how high up he was. But no break in the weather during the day. And finally the fifth, the fourth night, we moved downhill. Say, you can move out now and try to continue with the mission. So we got down halfway down the mountain, and we came to one of the weirdest things. It looked like Stonehenge in the middle of Laos. Here are these huge monoliths that looked like Stonehenge. They didn't have any across the top, but these big things that came out of the ground. So we set up our ron in the center of this, put out the claymore mines and set up the ron. It was a quiet night. And then in the morning, first light, we could hear dogs, and the dogs picked up our trail. You could just tell they're barking more excitedly. And so Spider came by. I told him that they were on us. Be a question of time before we made contact. And we moved out and we moved to an open area where Spider said, go take this vector here. You've been on the ground for five days. We'll pull you out. And he came back 10 minutes later, said, well, we're going to be delayed. There's another team that declared a prairie fire emergency. So we had to wait. Well, they kept coming, and they went through that ron. And we had Bubba put down a claymore mine, and then Sal put down a couple of toe poppers. So the claymore was triggered. We knew they're pissed now, and then they heard at least two toe poppers go off. So during that time, they came out. Sal and Hep were in the back. They had a light contact. Then we got the word from spider that the 101st Airborne was going to come in to pick us up. And that was the first time we had had American slicks since the mission to Nassau Valley because we had always used the South Vietnamese, the king beast. And at one point, the gunships came down. Scarface, Marine Corps Scarface came in. They got shot to shit. They made a second run. They got shot up Again. And we could see the enemy up the hill on the backside. And we went out with our M79s and King had that pump. He went, cha, chung, cha chung, cha chung me. Bubba and Tuan also fired our M79s up that hill where the gunfire was coming from on the ships, on the airships. I slowed him down. 101st came in, and I told Bubba, you got to be the first man out there. You tell those young guys that are door gunners. We've got South Vietnamese. Don't kill my little people. So he did, because we had bad experiences with that, with young door gunners that shot up some of our little people by mistake without realizing, because some of the guys just thought all South Vietnamese were nva. So we got out, had a good extraction that night, back at the bar, we finally get back to the bar and Scarface is there, and there's a Lt. Col. Robinson who was the OIC, and he was, like, pissed. He says, look, you see my helicopter? The plexiglass had been shot out, had bullet holes in it. And so he's really said, you guys, every time we come out to get you, my helicopters get shot up. And now I want to be out there supporting you guys. He's. So I buy him a few drinks. You get three or four drinks in him. And I went back to S2, gave a debrief, came back, and Robson, Colonel Robson was still there, still bitching and moaning. I said, sir, does that mean you're not going to come next time? He said, no, I didn't say that. We'll be. You call, we'll come. And they did. They got shot up really bad. And they were flying those old UEs, UE gunships that when they had a full load of orders, they could barely get off the ground. Sometimes with the heat, the door gunners would get out and run alongside the helicopter where they started getting a little momentum going, and then they jump back in the helicopter just seeing those guys do that. So right after that, we were called into S3 and they said, we want to send you TDY to FOB6, which was down at Honuktau. And at that time, there were six FOBs that were operating. FOB 1 was Fubai, 2 was Khan Tomb, which was in two core. And they did targets in both Laos and Cambodia. FOB 3 had been Khe Sanh, which, when Khe Sanh was closed, the Marine Corps base was closed. On the 68th of June, they transferred our FOB to MyLock, excuse me, FOB 4 was Danang, FOB 5, was Bami Tuit all targets for Cambodia. FOB 6 was Honok Tal was northwest of Saigon. And they were all Cambodian targets. They were low on operational teams, so we were sent down to tdy. So just Bub and I and the team went down and we had been there a day. And the day before Thanksgiving, the OIC Colonel Drake called us in and said, look, we got a mission tomorrow and said, S3 is going to brief you, but it's Thanksgiving Day and if you guys pull this mission off before you go into the target, we'll bring you a Thanksgiving dinner. Good to go, Colonel. We go in for the briefing. And the mission was to find one or any of the three missing NVA divisions. So this is November, near the end of November, like this is November 25th. 68. We knew that they were missing. And the concern was because the Tet offensive in early 68, that the NVA were winding up for another Tet offensive in 69. And with 30,000 NVA missing in action, WTF times two. So we, we're up late and during that briefing we got pictures from really high up about different areas. And the pictures were the first pictures taken by the blackbirds, the, the 72s, the S72s. And they were amazing. So we had all that and we had the latest intel reports that were there with the Colonel. We got a approximated target area and we were working with the Green Hornets, the Air Force Special Operations squadron. And those guys were hot shit. They had the latest Huey, the latest weapons, and those UEs were more powerful than anything we had seen with the Army. But the rules of engagement were different in Cambodia. No tac air, no covey. Only thing that was up were helicopters. And the only support we had would be helicopter gunships, which would be 2.75 rockets or miniguns or M60s. And fortunately here these guys were just hot shit pilots. So we did in the morning, we got up first light, we go to the launch site. Here comes a helicopter with Thanksgiving. So we sat down, had Thanksgiving, had our big meal, jumped on the helicopters, launched into the target and we get in the target, we moved for a while and we literally walked into an NVA base camp. And later what Sal figured and fook, they thought that One of the NVAs had just left because there are still fires burning and one fire like had a pot still hanging over. So one NVA division had just left and another one was coming in. Well, when we're there, we went in, we started taking some Pictures. And Sal gives me that sound, that hiss of his. And then he goes, buku vc. And his eyes are like saucers. And he points up to the north and off in the woods. Now, this is Cambodia. This is not Laos, Cambodia. The vegetation was different. Maybe one canopy and it was open. You could see for almost 100 yards, some places maybe a little bit longer. And off in the distance, we could see NVA soldiers with pith helmets with their AKs running down port arms looking for us. Oh, yeah. And somehow, because we didn't make any noise or anything, but they, they turned and started coming towards us. So we begin to move back. We got it. We go into our full retreat, Move, go back. I declare a prayer of fire emergency. As we're beginning to move back, Sal goes, du ma. And now from the south we got the same thing coming up. NVA with AK47s and pith helmets running up. They see the other unit and they both all come towards us. So now we open fire. Tuan, myself and Bubba hitting them with M79s. We begin falling back. We put down claymores to slow them down. At one point, Bubba had a ClayMore with a five second fuse on it. We put that in the ground and then move back. Of course, it's in front of the tree so the back blast wouldn't get us. And we had that claymore. We're moving back, rotating each other, going back. And we finally get close to the lz. We put down two claymores as the NV got really close, Bubba blew off one and I waited. And then the helicopter landed in between. Right before he landed, we had two gun runs. At least two gun runs with their two miniguns. And it just slaughtered them. It just killed them. We don't know how many, no time to count. The helicopter lands. Everybody's loading up. As I see more NVA coming. They're right in front of my claim work. They click that MK or MK 57 clacker blows them up, run back. We get on a helicopter, we're pulling off. It's me and Fook. And so there's that little bit of jungle and some of the NVA are running and we're in an opening area. It had been raining a couple days before. And a couple of the NVA come out and they're trying to stop and you can see the mud from their boots coming up and hitting the propellers.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, yeah. And so me and the door gun hit this one guy, full kit the other guy, and they blow back and we're pulling off as we're leaving. I get a white phosphorus grenade. We've been told no white phosphorus in Cambodia, but this was so close. And I could see those NVA down there. I threw a white phosphorus down at them and we leave. Helicopters all get shot up. Our helicopter had over a dozen hits, but none of our guys, none of the Air Force guys got hit. And that those Air Force guys from the Green Horns were hot shit. They just saved our ass that day. We go back to the launch site now with the Air Force guys and they go, hey, it's Thanksgiving. Come on in and have a Thanksgiving dinner with us. So we gave a quick verbal report on the radio back to headquarters, went in, sat down with the Air Force, had Thanksgiving dinner. As we're wrapping up, somebody comes down and says, hey man, they want you back at Hoenok Tel asap. And I said, okay. So we go back to Hoenok Tel, talk to the Colonel, talk to S3, gave them all of our reports. Bubba took the team out, gave them overnight passes, took care of that. And after we're done with the debrief, it was around five, a quarter six or so. Colonel Drake goes, hey, you guys, it's Thanksgiving. Come on down, get a Thanksgiving meal. You have one for breakfast, you can have one for dinner. So we had three Thanksgiving meals in one day. Unbelievable. So the next day we, we just cleaned our weapons. We did some weapons, some practice on the range. The next day we had an insert. We wanted to do a trail watch. And we want to get a POW really bad. Perfect insertion. We get on the ground and we go over to, I think it was like Highway 31 in Cambodia. And it's one of these deals where the jungle was like still one canopy, but it's thick. And it's so thick that when you go up, like you push your hand through and it's all clear, there's your road, but anybody on the road can't see you, even if they're like you and I. Distance. The jungle's so intense, we can't see each other. So these trucks are coming down. I'm taking pictures of the NVA and their trucks and just some civilian cars. And there have been, of course, motorcycles and mopeds and stuff like that going by. So in between, Bubba went out and put it in the anti tank device, buried it, put it out there, brought back to death because we weren't, we were going to blow up a truck with troops in it, capture a live POW and get out. Because the Air Force Was so quick to respond, we knew we could pick it up and be out of there in 20 minutes or less. Get it all set up, we pull back in the clear. On my radio. I'm carrying the radio. I always carry the radio. ST or RT, ID, you are to stop the mission. Return to base ASAP. Per the order of General Creighton Abrams. He replaced Westmoreland, and he was now the overall commander for all armed service troops in Vietnam. Like, wtf? So instead of being a good comic going, say, I can't hear you, we did it. We pulled back and we did extract no gunfire. They just came in, pulled us up, took us back to base. And we got back to base. It's like, wtf? We had the ambush set up. We could have had a pow. Premier Sionok in Cambodia filed a protest over a white phosphorus grenade that we threw down on the nva. He wasn't upset about the hundred thousand NVA who were in Cambodia. That was cool. But us and our white phosphorus grenade, he was upset about. So to Colonel Drake, he was really cool. He says, okay. He said, what happened out there? I said, well, sir, you know, we got it pulled out under fire. I put that thing right down that guy's head. I wanted them to suffer as much as they could. He says, you forgot about the rules of engagement. I said, well, yes, sir. I just bent him a little bit. He said, okay, well, what's the official story? I said, sir, I really regret that. That hand grenade threw a fell. The helicopter. I still don't know how it exploded on contact with the ground. It must have been that fall. He says, okay. Said, don't do it again. He covered my ass with Creighton Abrams on that, but that's how upset they were. They pulled us out of the fucking field on that. Just unbelievable. So the next day, we're back. We got inserted. Perfect insertion again. And there we did that multiple.

[Sean Ryan]

He told you out of the field for a fucking white phosphorus grenade?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah. And a complaint from the premier of Cambodia, Sinok. You talk about political bullfucking shit. Excuse my French, sir. God, it was just. We were furious because they didn't know we were there. It was the perfect insert that ambush. We would have gotten the POW and WAR out of there. We had all the handcuffs ready to go, the plastic timing downs and everything. We were psyched. Bub and I, once again, were planning our R&Rs, you know, because it was just. It was like a dream mission. A perfect insertion. We did the fake, fake land, got right there, south Took us right out to the road, set everything up, put the claymores out for security, and, man, we were ready to roll. And Bub was just so good with explosives and stuff. So the next day we get inserted again, and this time it was in the afternoon. We had a good insertion. We're set up at night, put up the RO in, but it was hinky, just hinky being on the ground in Cambodia because everything's so flat. There's no mountains and minimal vegetation south. Found a couple of places where we could pick for a good Ron. Put out double claymores, and during the night I was just. Just pinky all night. We got up in the morning, moved out, and we were going to go back to try to do another POW snatch. And again Covey came back, or somebody from the the 20th came out, gave a combo check and said, by the way, go to an lz. You're being extracted asap. And I said, why? He said, we can't say. They pulled us out again. This time we came back and Colonel Drake was there and said, hey, you just lost a helicopter up at FOB1. A King Me went down with seven Green Berets and they lost the whole crew. So I've got to send you back to FOB1 because you're low on personnel up there now. He says, our guys are training up and we'll be able to cover our missions here. We went back on November. I'll Never forget it, November 30, 1968. @ King B, we had a mission that was called Eldest Son, and this is part of the psyops, where the ammunition was doctored. So they fired an AK47 round that had been doctored. It was Eldest Son. It was exploding her face. And they put the. They used 82 millimeter mortars, and those were doctored. And so when they popped it in the tube, it would explode and just kill everybody because the shrapnel from the tube as well as the rocket would kill any of the NVA right next to it. And it had a psychological impact on the NVA to discourage them from using their ordinance, have to question it. And so this unit, it was just the throat. It was a strap hanger mission. Somebody up at the base said, hey, we want to do an Eldest Son mission. We need six or seven guys. We got a site. So they gave him extra ordinance, and they were going to go to this cache, put in the stuff and leave, and just leave it out there for the NVA to pick up and use it. And blow themselves up while they're in route. They got hit by anti aircraft fire. The King B went down and crashed and they lost everybody.

[Sean Ryan]

Damn.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Horrible. Yeah. November 30th. So we went back north and within a few days we had another mission which was just a routine mission. And then we had some downtime because of weather. And then we came to Christmas Day 1968 and didn't even realize it was Christmas because we had been so busy planning, working things out. And they had a mission where they wanted us to go in on a mountaintop for a trail watch and also look for enemy fuel lines because the NVA were bringing down fuel lines from North Vietnam that were coming down into Laos. And the fuel lines would come down to refuel the trucks as they came down the Ho Chi Minh Trail, but nobody had found any yet. So our mission was to get us this hilltop, get inserted, do a general area recon, then the next day move out to try to find some of those fuel lines. So In November of 68, President Johnson declared a bombing halt in North Vietnam. And all of, not all, but a lot of the anti aircraft weaponry that had been up in North Vietnam began coming south. So on Christmas Day, our target was just into layos, maybe five or 10 clicks into layoffs. And we had a king beast, Captain Tuong, the one who pulled me out when I was upside down, he was our pilot that day. And instead of doing the yellow leaf sparrow, he wanted to just go in low level, go right up and set down. Well, somewhere he made a mistake and we came in, we went up the mountainside and halfway up the mountain there was this little knoll. He touched down on the knoll instead of going all the way up. But we got out and there was a lot of elephant grass. So he's right there in the elephant grass. He took off and the elephant grass was thick again. It's 10 to 12ft to the south and to the west and even to the northwest it was so steep we couldn't go anywhere. So Phuc led off to the east. He's our point man. And it was Bubba May, Lynn Black was there with us. And then we had Tuan Phook and Hebb. And so we're there moving out and within a half hour or less we made contact, light contact with the nva. So we came back and we're back on that little knoll and Lyn and I are talking. It's like, well, the northeast is the last place that we can go. And Lynn goes, but there's no Activity there. We don't see anything. We've had contact here. And then people started shooting at us from down the hill in the south. And we were throwing hand grenades. All of a sudden, the elephant grass catches fire down the mountain. And the wind from that mountain area was blowing those flames up the hill. And then the NVA were going around. When they saw that they were going around and setting fires on the base of that knoll that we're on. So at one point, the elephant grass was burning. We're looking down the hill. You have all these smoke waves and then the heat waves you see, you can look through. And you could see the NVA there lighting stuff further down the mountain. But they weren't shooting at us. They were all lighting up the mountainside. So I declared a prairie fire emergency. Spider was flying cubby that day. We couldn't go, oh, and Spider comes out. He goes, do not go to the northeast. We had an intel report there's an NVA ambush waiting for RT, ID there. I never had an intel report like that. So we didn't go. Now we're fighting the fire. Lynn and Bubba cut S4, try to blow the lily, try to blow the flames back down the hill. But the mountain and the. And the wind and everything was blowing that stuff up. Thankfully, Captain Tuong got there and he came up above us. He came down the mountain, flying sideways. And I looked up and saw Captain Tuong. And I recognized him because from that day mission, when I was upside down on other missions and we of course had bought him drinks, he came down and he landed and the prop wash blew back all the flames. We jumped on that king bee. When he lifted off, whoosh. All of the LZ was covered with flames.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

And of course, we left under fire. So we were firing at the NVA as we pulled out. So that was Christmas. And we barely got out of there that day. And that night I took a shower. And when I'm walking back to my hooch from the shower, because the shower's over to the left, past the officers barracks and our hooches were here. And we. As I walked back to my room, I hear this little cheap transistor radio playing Silent Night. I go, son of a bitch, it's Christmas. I'm thinking about treading to mom and dad and Grandma, you know, what they're doing on Christmas Day. And then I thought, you know, this is fucking crazy. I don't think I'm going to see my birthday. We keep having missions like this. Thanksgiving Day, the upside down October 4th, echo 4, echo 8, this is. I don't think I'm going to see my birthday, but we'll just keep pushing on. My birthday was January 19th. But that moment in time standing there, I just didn't think we'd ever see the light of day until the new year because they were bringing in more NVA and their tactics were getting tougher. There's more of them.

[Sean Ryan]

What did the rest of the team think?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Never talked about it. That was just private. We closed FOB1 in the early January, and of course, New Year's Eve, everybody's worried about a big. They had intel reports were going to get hit. So New Year's Eve, nobody got hit. We played poker. They closed the clubhouse early, and Spider, we had a team on the ground and they got inserted on New Year's Eve day. And they weren't happy about it, but they got inserted. Spider went up at midnight, made a commerce check with him and said, look, guys, be alert. First thing in the morning, that team got hit. All the three Americans were killed. The three Indig were left alive. And the bright light went in later that day and they were able to recover the bodies, bring them back. And that really struck home because again, there are some teams that didn't have, like the close relationship that I had with our little people, our South Vietnamese. I talked to Hep and Sow, said, look, this is some Americans and even some of the indigenous going like, why did the Americans died and the Vietnamese didn't die? So if you hear anything, you let me know. Well, we didn't have any problem, but there are some people that were really unhappy about it. And it had an impact in the camp. Just the fact that we lost three men from FOB four. And that was just another example of them changing their tactics. And they hit him, hit them hard. So within the next couple weeks, we had to begin to pack up for the movement. They were closing FOB1 at Fubai. What we didn't know at the time was intel had a report that the NVA were preparing another attack on FOB 1 like they had done at FOB 4 on August 23rd of 1968. We didn't learn that till years later. We packed up and we went down. They flew us down to King B. Captain 10 flew us down to FOB 4. We moved in down there. And then Bub and I had one more mission. And we had a mission where it was. I forget what the mission was, but we got on the ground again. Spotty weather, it's January we get inserted, we're on the ground, and we moved. It was a little bit more. It was not as high in the mountains. We were closer to the Vietnam border, so the mountains weren't as severe, but there's still hills and things. We moved for a few hours, and then Bubba had left behind a claymore mine that was rigged. That claymore went off so we knew that the trackers were at least there and they would be trying to track us. So we moved for a while longer. We're getting near the end of the day now, and we found a little clearing and I called a tactical emergency and I got a hold of Covey and Covey said he'd be there shortly. And while we're waiting, Sal was putting out a claymore mine. And when he was moving back, he opened fire on the NVA coming at us from the north. He opened fire, reloaded, hit him through a hand grenade, and came back. Then they hit us from the other side, which would be the east. And then later they came at us from the side, from the south side. So they were coming at us, but we were just a little bit of a high ground where they're coming off of that, climbing up the mountain, and we were like at a little small plateau, and Covey arrives, we get tacky or lickety split, and we were just really lucky, but we had been in contact. They kept coming at us, first from the south, I mean, from the north, then from the east, and then from the south, and just different troops would come. And we had those firefights. And it got pretty intense with the south and the east side. So Covey goes, hey, try to blow down a couple trees so we can get a helicopter in. So in our spare time, in between the firefights, Bubba rigged debt charges to chop down the trees. Well, he chopped down two or three trees, but there was enough vegetation around that the trees couldn't fall. Then once he blew him off the stump, the other trees would catch him. So no helicopter collision. We had to do strings. So now we're back, the helicopter comes back and he tells us, you're going to be extracted on strings. We'll do in two helicopters. And in my mind, it's beginning to rain. It's near the end of the day, and the helicopter looked so high up when he threw those ropes out, I couldn't believe the ropes even reached us. We were just really lucky they came down. There were four ropes. And I told the team, we're going to all go out of here together. He put together Three of the Vietnamese, two Vietnamese together. And then Bub and I had separate strings and then the third Vietnamese, and so we had two and two. However it was, we figured it out. We all put our Swiss seesaw in the middle of the firefight. And then I talked to Bubba. I said, hey, you know that claymore mine with the white phosphorus you got taped to it? Said, do me a favor, put that on the tree here so we get extracted, put a time fuse on it so when we get extracted that'll blow and that'll buy us some time to get out of the jungle. He looked at me like, wtf? Are you out of your mind? I said, bubba, do this, we don't get out of here now. So he did it, he put it up there, put a time fuse on it. We all hooked up. They were lifting out. I was on the rope that was the longest, the lowest. Bubba goes out. As he's going out, he pulls that fuse and he lifted us straight up. And we were just really lucky because we weren't in the super high mountains and it was January, so it's cooler. And I rolled the dice saying, take all six of us now, because it was just the dark was closing in, darkness. And as we went up, that thing exploded. You just see the claymore with the white phosphorus hitting those troops. And for the first time we could see their faces and stuff. Well from above as we got pulled out. And then right near the end, they were able to get us completely cleared. They didn't drag us through the trees. There was 101st Airborne guys that did that. And we got pulled out, got back to base and I yelled to Covey as soon as we cleared that tree, I said, hey, we got all six here. Don't bring the second helicopter. And we had done a one Skyraider gun raids. We had 500 pound bombs that we used. And that's one of those deals when you're on the ground you used to get elevated from the concussions. You know how it is with 500 pounders. And it was just really close. Just another day in sog, you know, Geez. Oh yeah. A couple days later, Bubba came up to me and said, you know, this has been a long run. He says, would you mind if they offer me a job up in headquarters? I said, bubba said, you've been a fucking stud, man. If you want to go to headquarters, please go, because I just forever be in your debt. You've just been a complete stud with me. All these missions, all we've been through, and we're still alive to talk about it, that's fine. You go. So he went up to headquarters, and then Lynn Black came on the team. And Lynn was. He had been one of the 173rd. He had that mission on October 5th that we were briefly mentioned. He was just amazing guy.

[Sean Ryan]

Did you ever want to leave?

[John Stryker Meyer]

No. No.

[Sean Ryan]

Why not?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Because. Well, two things. I just, like, after all that training, we knew that the Green Berets in Vietnam were special, but SOG was special within the special unit. And it was just really an honor to be there. You know, we had all those special little privileges and quirks, like if we had to get on a flight to go to Saigon as a courier or something, we had passes. If we flipped that pass, if that plane was loaded, then somebody had to come off so we could get on it and fly. So we knew that we were the tip of the spear. It was just an honor to be there, to operate under those rules of engagement, even though we couldn't tell anybody about it. You know, you write letters home to Mom. Hey, the weather was nice. Yeah. You like my Vietnamese team members? They're just wonderful guys. We have a good time together. I would have letters from Grandma and Stryker, and mom would always write and dad would write. And, of course, brother and sister have little correspondence, but never anything about what was going on. And years later, when my first book came out, dad read it. He goes, you know, I could never figure out why that black guy came by and picked up our trash. He said he would come by regularly and pick up the trash. Well, dad got a job at the post office, and the post office was where the FBI was located. And dad saw that guy coming out of the FBI office. He goes, oh, he picked up your trash to see if you said anything or if we said anything to you that would have violated your nad. Wow. That's how serious they were about it. That's a real kick in the pants. Those. Those FBI agents were on it. So Lynn was there. We had a couple of missions. Nothing really that extraordinary. And then we planned for a special mission where we were going to go up to Mugia Pass. And Mugia Pass was up in Laos, above the DMZ River. You had the DMZ river that flowed through us, would divide North Vietnam from South Vietnam. And then when it entered Laos, it still continued to flow from the west to the east. And that was divided. We had targets that would be like MA 10, MA 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. And those were the areas that we were working really hard to try to find those pipelines. And we had. And then above that, further north of this pipeline of the river was the Mugia Pass, which was where any vehicular traffic from Hanoi coming south had to go through the Mugua Pass. And Air Force knew it, the NVA knew it, and they had all kinds of anti aircraft weaponry there. And the plan was for us to go up on a plateau, going heavily armed with mortars, taking extra guys, extra claymores and then set up with the Air Force with the weather being clear for the next 48 hours, just to back up that pass and then wipe out any supplies coming down the Hoochi Min trail. Because the intel report said there weren't many, quote many enemy there. So we were going in heavy. Lim was going to take an M60. We had a Captain O'Byrne with us, Michael Byrne, for intel purposes. And we were just wired up. And that's the picture of my second book of being inspected was prior day prior to that mission when we launched for it. Now we launched and when we're into Laos, above the DMZ river, they called us off. They said that an aircraft had been shot down, one or two aircraft had been shot down at the Mugua passenger, either that night or the day before. And they said they shot down Phantom jets, maybe they might shoot down a slow moving helicopter. They canceled it, we came back and then I went home two days later at the end of my first tour of duty. So the end of April, went back to NHA Trang, signed out, went back home, saw mom and dad for a few days. I had a little sweetheart down in Georgia, visited her for a couple days and then reported to Fort Devens, Massachusetts up in the 10th group and was there. And that was just God awful duty. Just hated every second of it. And a lot of guys like Spider Pat Watkins, Jeff Jenkins, Tony Harrell, Rick Esteson and those guys all went to 10 Special Forces Group. But they were in D Company and D company was a fool. Green Beret Company with a team set up, they're training, they were doing missions. And so it was a real, a real company with green braids. I was sent to Signal Company because of my MOS and it was chicken shit. They had two young lieutenants in there, they ran it like basic training almost. And then we had the fellow platoon sergeants that had been in 10th group and all. None of them had been to Vietnam. And they were proud of the fact that they had not been to Vietnam.

[Sean Ryan]

They were proud that they had not.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Been to Vietnam, that they had Gotten out of it. And they were. They were kind of. At one point, they're kind of like, how could you be so stupid to not figure out a way to get out of that? I said, what are you wearing on your head? We have some words. So I was there for five months, just got off of duty. But we had young kids and we had competitions for signal competitions, you know. So I tell these kids, look, we've got to win this competition just to piss everybody off because they hate me and they hate you guys because we keep winning the contest. So my guys were sharp. You had to go out, set up the net. Whoever could set up the net the quickest and make combo back to base the quickest and all this kind of stuff, our guys did it. And so we had a couple incidents at local bars. And I decided, Spider Parks told me that there's a gal in the Pentagon, Billy Alexander, this wonderful woman. Her sole job was assigning Green Berets to Southeast Asia, which would include that as well as Okinawa. We had the first Special Forces group assigned there. So it was like a Wednesday or Thursday. I drove down overnight down to the Pentagon. First light. Pentagon open, 7 o'clock in the morning. I was there with a bottle of wine, whatever her favorite wine was, Spider told me. And we had flowers. Asked for Billy. Back then, it's like the doors are wide open. You walk in, hey, where's Billy Alexander? Oh, yeah, she's down here. So I go down, knock on the door, walk in, asked for Billy. She was over in the corner desk. Hi, Billy. My name's John Meyer. I'm up at 10th Groot. I hate it. And I'd really like to go back to ccn. Oh, we could use people like you. You've been there before. Yes. And so we chatted a little bit. I gave her the flowers and the wine, went back to my car, took a nap. Came back about 3:00. Billy said, here's your orders. Go back. My ETS was up December 1st. She said, if you really want to go back, I got to extend your ETS into April. Said, please do it. Says, I don't want to be at Fort Devens. Another day, went up to Fort Devens, cleared the next day, cleared the base, cleared the company, went home to mom and dad, gave them the news. I was going back. And on Monday morning, had a flight back to Fort Lewis and heading back to Vietnam. And I arrived up at Fort Lewis. Jeffrey Junkins was there. Jeffrey lived in La Jolla. We had served together at FOB 1 he had a couple amazing experiences that we could talk about another day. So Jeff and I flew back to Vietnam together. We land in Cam Ranh Bay. The same culture shock, getting off the plane, just smelling everything about it. But instead of waiting in line and being processed, we had our duffel bags. We had our orders already. And we saw a jeep that wasn't being used. We requisitioned it, drove up to NHA Trang, and he had a house up there where he had some friends that he had known from his. He had had four tours of duty previously. So we visited this house and some of the mama sans, and they had these huge beds with mounds of marijuana, and they had three women on each bed, all rolling joints to sell to the gis. Amazing. I wasn't into that. But Jeff was up there, and we hung out, had a nice lunch. We finally reported for duty at NHA Trang because we had been there before. Cleared the base, went right up to ccn, reported into the Sergeant Major John Hobbs. And I asked him, if I get back on Idaho. He said, yeah, Lynn Black is out there. He could use a 1:1. I said, yeah, let Lynn be the 1:0 because he'd been on the team for a while. So it's just one of those great moments. I walked from headquarters down to the hooch. Nobody was there. I could hear shooting out in the range. So Idaho was out on the range. Lynn was running through the drill. And as I'm walking out, the shooting stopped. Nero coming back. That was such a joyous occasion, seeing them. Of course, it was like, you know, they did everything. Attacked my sexual preferences on. Down to being dumb and stupid and everything. It was really great to see the boys again. So we celebrated. Had a great Vietnamese meal that night with them over in the Vietnamese mess hall, and we were back on the team. So lynn was the 10 for a while. We ran a couple missions, and then I became the 1 0. And then the sergeant major goes, look, you got too much experience here. Said Lynn. I want you to go somewhere else. Tilt. Just take over Idaho again. So I took over rt, Idaho, went back, and that was. It was an interesting time Lynn and I put together. In our spare time, we worked on a. On a. On a manual for running recon, talked about the SOPs, and Lynn was just in phenomenal arts. He drew up artwork for LZs, helicopters, strings, tractions, anything we needed art for. Lynn did it all, put it together, turned it in. Never heard another word about it. But I was there until early part of April. And we had a mission. We had a disagreement with our base commanding officer, and then we had a hellasis party. When I left at that time, I was down to Trang for two weeks. Then my ETS ran out. I did guard duty at night. The sergeant major told me. He said, you know, you got a choice. You can extend. I'll give you any. I can give you any assignment because of your experience, or you go home. And the re. Induction, the reductions in force were starting at that time. And I knew that was all bad. Just going through. Those reductions and force are horrible. And I said, well, I'll just go home. Went back April 25, signed out, went through the out processing. And you get the physical. Doctor looks at your ears, and he goes, hey, you know, your ears are bad. You should have never been in the army. You should never been here with ears like that. I said, well, it's a little too late, Doc.

[Sean Ryan]

Did you ever get shot over there?

[John Stryker Meyer]

No. No. I had shrapnel. And again, talk about just the luck of the draw. We had shrapnel a couple times. One time, a piece of shrapnel came up. I had a weak little skimpy blonde mustache, hit me right here and knocked my head back and stuck in. But I ran out of energy. The worst injury I ever had was from shrapnel. When Chow didn't throw the hand grenade, we were doing a. We were practicing on base, and Chow threw the hand grenade, and it went off. And it's just like, oh. And so the shrapnel went through. I was wearing jungle fatigues with buttons on them, and the shrapnel went through the button, and it went into my groin and bled like a pig. And our medics were busy with some kind of training, so they packed me up and took me down to the army hospital down there. And the army doctor went in with the sutures, and they're digging around with it. I said, wait a minute. No antithet, no anesthesia or anything. No anesthesia. He goes, oh, I'm sorry. I thought they gave it to you. Well, he gave it to me again. He was in there digging around. He couldn't find. He says, look, that piece of shrapnel lets you know when it wants to come out. Passed me up. And the second he left, man, I cleaned up. I stole a pair of fatigues, and I was wearing another pair of jungle boots or something. What I was wearing were all bloodied up, so all my bloody clothes were left. I jumped in them and walked out of the hospital, found the telephone, called base, and they came, picked me up. I'd rather be in the hands of Green Beret medics than those doctors that would dig around now talking about that piece of shrapnel. This past Wednesday, I was in for an MRI because my urologist wanted me to go in to get an MRI because my PSA numbers are up a little bit. I've always had high PSA numbers. But she was concerned. So I go in for the mri, and I told the guy before he put me in the tube, I said, be advised I have shrapnel in my groin. Okay, let's take a picture. I go in there, we get all wound up, put stuff going. It goes in and the thing gets gone and it stops suddenly. He pulled me out and he said, that shrapnel is so big that we can't get a clear picture of your prostate or anything else. It had a big black blob. Damn. On their photo. So that little piece of shrapnel came back. But now, 55 years later.

[Sean Ryan]

Damn.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

What was it like coming home for you each time?

[John Stryker Meyer]

For me, it was good. I mean, I didn't have what a lot of the other vets had. I wore the uniform. People knew, the Special Forces guys. So I don't think a lot of SF guys were messed around with. And I was proud of the uniform. And each time when I came home, I had. Mom and dad were there and family. I had my old church and the guys that I grew up with, we played softball. We had a bowling team, put together a bowling team with the young guys. And the transition for me was relatively. Compared to what other guys went through. And I had flunked out of college. That's why I went in the Army. So I knew I had to get. I wanted to get my degree because mom had a degree or certificate for her days at. When she was a young girl and really wanted to get a degree. And I went back to school, had been phys Ed, but they came up with a political science major. I loved it. So I became a political science major and a minor in English for writing. And at that time, the GI bill was $200 a month, whether you went to Harvard University or Trenton State College, As I did, $200 a month was your GI bill. So I went back to Trenton State. My dad got me a job driving school buses and during that time got involved in the school newspaper there and drove school buses just for the chump change and ran my GI bill right down to the so I used all 36 months of it.

[Sean Ryan]

What was it like in school for you with a bunch of kids that had never been to war?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah, it was really different, but in some ways, the majority of the kids there was never, never much of an issue. We had other veterans on campus, and I wore my fatigue jacket for several years, and my footwear was my jungle boots, my original pair of jungle boots. I wore them for years on. On. On campus.

[Sean Ryan]

What was it like not being able to talk about what you did?

[John Stryker Meyer]

That's Dave Begore. That's what you're supposed to do. So. And anybody who really was. Was trying to ask questions about it, I said, well, no, we were Special Forces. We did a lot of hard work, dangerous stuff. And I talk about my little people right away. We worked with the South Vietnamese. So my story about Vietnam's different, but than a lot of regular Vietnam vets who went there. I mean, they would go there without any culture indoctrination at all or appreciation of their history.

[Sean Ryan]

When your dad read your first book and read it, what was that conversation like?

[John Stryker Meyer]

It was pretty quick.

[Sean Ryan]

It was quick.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yeah. Yeah, because he read it and, you know, at that point in time, I was living in California. Mom and dad had moved from Trenton to Colorado, where my brother and sister were living. And Dave had three kids there. So they had. They're close to those grandkids, and they love Denver area. So they were there and we talked on the phone, but it was about that garbage man, the first and foremost. He said, you guys did some crazy stuff, but never, never too much beyond that. And he was always, like, respectful and distant, always very supportive. Never ever any doubt or anything from dad or mom, for that matter. Now, when I went back to Vietnam a second time, mom cried. That wasn't easy, but I had to do the right thing for me, explain to her why I had to do it. And of course, I didn't tell about the MPs coming in the base on Monday, the day after I left. And they were. They wanted to talk to me about a couple bar fights. There had been some property destruction. Allegedly.

[Sean Ryan]

Allegedly.

[John Stryker Meyer]

But at this point, I'm taking the Fifth.

[Sean Ryan]

You could talk about sog, but you can't talk about the bar fights.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, it was Spider Parks and the guys. You know, Tony Harrell. I mean, Tony, he was like a. A bruiser.

[Sean Ryan]

Let's hear what.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Well, we were in this bar, and there's some other army personnel there. There's words between a regular army guy, a leg, and one of our guys. And so there's words, that one guy throws a punch and Tony's there supporting our guy. And there's a couple fights. So whenever there's a fight, I would always be rear security. So those guys are doing the fighting. I'm making sure nobody hits them from the back because I'm not a really good fighter. I never was good with my hands other than playing the piano, you know. And somebody, and to this day I don't know who, but somebody had picked up one of those chairs and threw it at the six foot mirror. And the beer bottle, not beer, but all the liquor bottles. And the mirror shattered. So somebody thought that may have been me, but I don't know. Back then I drank a little bit more than I do now. In fact, I don't drink now. So anyway, that may have been the incident. And while I was there, I got a job pumping gas on the weekends just to make extra money. I had a really nice 442W30. It was a 1969. That car was slick. And so we had that for a few months. And then the insurance got too costly and I blew up the engine on the New Jersey Turnpike at 130 miles an hour going home. But the warranty covered it. The car dealer was really kind. And then we got it rebuilt.

[Sean Ryan]

What about the aftermath, John? I mean, all the killing, all the adrenaline, everything you did well, that adrenaline.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Thing was always something that you clearly missed. I mean, it's. You know, you and everybody you ever talked to have been through that. In my case, I tried to stay physical. I went back to school, I was on. I played soccer, the JV soccer team. I wasn't that good, but I knew the coach and the coach let me come out and play because I was a veteran. And I'd get a little game time at the end of the game when either we had lost or won a game. But it's part of the just being physical with it all, you know. And my new mission was I had to get back and I wanted to get that degree. So I really focused on that. Had a few interesting girlfriends along the way. And then got involved in the school newspaper. It was the Signal. And there was an ad in the paper for a sports writer. So I did some sports and then did some features like book reviews, movie reviews, of course, record review, Led Zeppelin, you know, Emerson, Lincoln, Palmer. All this great music that was coming out then. I mean, good times, bad times, King Crimson. So I did all that. But I started doing opinion columns. I was the only voice on the paper that was when we invaded Cambodia. I talked about saying, this is cool, it's a good deal, we should have done it a long time ago. People flipped out. But in fact, one time after one of my columns, I get a phone call from this kid, he's crying, says, you got to stop writing that shit. I said, why? He says, well, my name is John Meyer and my mother thinks it's me writing that shit that you're writing. So. So I, from that point I made my byline, Denissel J. Stryker Meyer. And that was my byline for the next 30 years. And. But I did that. And then we got involved in news and the spare time was doing photography. I just love shooting. And they had a little cheap Yashika camera that was a signal camera, so that was mine and I used it and we finally got a photo lens. So I did photography and spent a lot of time in the darkroom, wrote stories and then became editor. And our editorships ran from January to December so that when a new school year started, the editorial board would be strong and we could recruit new people into the newspaper from there. So I was edited for two years, day and night. Worked every day on that paper for two years. And then at the end of it, got hired by the Trenton Times in Trenton, New Jersey. And I hadn't had a vacation in over like two and a half, three years. So I drove out to Colorado to see my sister for a couple of days, spent a couple of days with her, and then on the way home saw Tony Harrell and a couple of friends I served with, and then went to work at the Trenton Times. Reported in there January, middle of January of 1975. Worked there for 10 years as a reporter, and then it was owned by the Washington Post. So this is in the glory days, 1975, we had Katherine Graham came to our Trenton Times newsroom at least three different times. Twice to the auditorium with Woodward and Bernstein, who are like journalistic guides. They were all there talking about Watergate and about our newspaper because it was a proud property of the Washington Post. And I started out as a reporter just covering local governments. I was a good reporter, but my writing was weak. And after my first seven months, the editor, who was a World War II vet who hired me said, the other editors here want you to work on your writing. I'm going to hire you, I'm going to fire you as a full time staff writer, but I want to hire you back as a stringer. He said, so you will pay you for any article and you're Shooting pictures. Any pictures you shoot. So I did both. I made more money as a stringer than I did as a staff writer. And I still cover my old beats. And then after, I don't know, eight or nine months, he hired me back. I came back as a full time reporter and did a little bit more in the Municipal Beast. I covered the courts. And I covered the courts for seven years. Did investigative reporting along the way in my spare time, because the courts, you always had recess in the summer. They're taking vacations whenever they had an excuse. And so between covering the courts, we had an opportunity. A couple, twice we made new law in New Jersey for First Amendment rights for reporters in New Jersey on court cases that I covered. And we took the cases all the way to the Supreme Court. Wow. And worked with the New York Times attorney Floyd Abrams on it. And 1981, the Washington Post, Soldier, the Trenton Times, to a company that was just on. They came in, the management was there on Friday. They said, we're, we're here. There's not gonna be any cuts or anything. And that was Friday. On Monday, when everybody came to work, there were 60 less people there. We had a staff of 120 on Friday. On Monday there were 60. And they laid that many people off as one of the ones that remained on because the courthouse beat my investigative reporting and stuff. And then in 82, one of my editors had moved to San Diego and he offered me a job. I came out and interviewed for it, but for some reason it just didn't work out. And my first wife was pregnant. And so we had our first child in Trenton. And I worked at the Trenton Times for two more years. And then in February 1985, we moved to San Diego, Lived in North San Diego county, worked at the San Diego Union there for eight years. Then a year as a freelance writer working or being a general assignment reporter working. It could be nights covering the Clintons when they're coming to town for nafta or dead bodies floating in the Tijuana river, things like that. And of course, in 1985, Kiki Camarena, DEA agent, was killed after he was tortured by the Mexicans. And the FBI had tapes of the torture, and we learned about who was there. There's state attorneys, cops, federales, state police. All these top people were there. They were trying to get Kiki Camarina to tell them who his sources were, because DEA was hurting Mexican drug trafficking. And they knew that Kiki Camarini was deployment on that mission. Wow, just horrible. So we did a bunch of stories. And at least two of the stories particularly. We did a story, myself or another investigative reporter, John Stanifer, we were there, and we filed a report. We had to meet with our lawyers in the morning, talk to the editors, tell them what we're doing. And then the Mexican government filed formal complaints against our newspaper and us particularly. And they went right to Ed Meese, who was the attorney general. Then they did nothing about. Because the stories were accurate.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Did you deal with any type of depression or any. Anything after Vietnam?

[John Stryker Meyer]

No. I mean, some nights you just go that adrenaline kick and the guys. And being a Green Beret in a secret war at the top of our game, I miss being a part of that. But also, thanks to the nva, I also knew that the life expectancy wasn't that good. We had high casualty rate, one of the highest casualty rates in the Vietnam War. We've recently had more accurate numbers on that. But just from sheer experience, just from my introduction to Spike Team Idaho, you know, the team gets wiped out. There's an opening now. And that happened several times. We had. By the time that happened, we had had two other teams wiped out. In sog, we had. Plus we had Villa Rosa and his team. Everybody was killed except for the American. And that American was sent back to bring back the message of what they would do to our SOG guys in. In. In Laos.

[Sean Ryan]

Did you ever go back to Vietnam?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Never.

[Sean Ryan]

Why do you think so many Vietnam vets moved back to the area? Cambodia, Laos.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, the people. You know, again, once. Once you deal with the people who live there. Not the politicians, not the fucking communists, and certainly not any of the law enforcement that's there, because that's corrupt also, basically. But it's the people. Any American that goes back to Vietnam today is always greeted warmly 99.99% of the time, because the people realize the difference between being under communism and being free. And they appreciate what we had done to sacrifice. They know to sacrifice.

[Sean Ryan]

What did you think about the pullout?

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, it sucked.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, it seemed very similar to what we just experienced in Afghanistan.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yep. And again, politicians are involved. The two key reasons for the pullouts. In our case, we had the easter offensive in 1972, and they. The NVA had planned that so that they would hit all of our major cities, as they did in 68, and they would crush and just take over Vietnam by force. Well, they didn't. And there's also a secret SOG story here that's never been told before as one of the reasons why they didn't. And if we want, we could talk a little bit about that. But in 1972 they were held and they didn't break. And from that point on we removed more people and we had no combat troops left by 73. And even SOG was shut down in 72. The eight year secret war came to an official end. And the promise was the Vietnamese would fight it and that we would continue aid to support them with TAC Air and support their Air Force, because their Air Force and helicopter pilots were phenomenal and they had some very good units. But Congress withheld the funding and Ford begged them to keep the money gone and they cut off all funding. And without the TAC Air and that support, everybody will say maybe they would have fallen eventually. Well, maybe they would have. But the way we did, it sucked. And in my case, I'm in the newsroom and we have seen this happen where it's breaking down. And then April 30, they came across the AP clacking across. They tore it off and they announced it in the newsroom. I went back to the men's room, just sat there for an hour or so, just crying, tore up, thinking about Sal Hep and the boys and the guys. They're all there. And from it all, Hep was the only one that got out on that day. Hep's father had arranged for him to get a pass at the Tonson at airbase. There was a C130 pulling out. When he got there with his wife and his, I think it was his son. And the C130 had the tailgate halfway up. Hep gets behind it. He throws his child in there. Somebody catches the child. He helped his wife get up, then he fell down. He jumps up because now the C130 is moving down the Runway. He runs alongside that helicopter. I mean, the C130. That arm reached out and grabbed him and pulled him into it. He came back, came back to the states. Took a while to get through it all with a sponsor and everything. He ended up in Houston. And the History Channel did a piece in 2000 called the Suicide Missions. And that was the. One of the first productions that aired about sog. And they did a good job with it. And in it I had that picture that I have on the front page across the fence of Hep. And the guy from the History Channel calls up and says, hey, there's a guy here who says his uncle's on. His uncle's in that picture you showed. Well, I almost shit a BRICK this is 2000, you know, like 25 years after leaving Vietnam. So he gives me the phone number. I call him up. It was Hep's nephew living in Carlsbad, nine miles away. So I called this young man up, said, hey, this is me. I know your uncle connected with Hep. We had phone calls. And then his nephew told me, hep's going to be out to Orange county for a wedding in a couple of months. I said, well, tell me. So he gave me the flight number and everything. So the night that Hep flew into Orange County, I was at the airport. He came in on a late flight. 9, 9:30 or something. I'm there. Hep gets off the airplane. He goes, my, you're still buku dinky dal. You too tall and your feet too big. No hello, I missed you. No, it's like right away, he's just the typical smartass, you know, buster, your balls. Oh, yeah, Wonderful guy. I mean, he was a great interpreter. I mean, like I said, he spoke four or five languages. He corrected my English. That's how good he was. And of course, he always wore sunglasses. But him and Sal, we rebuilt the team around them. And live today, thanks to the team and their courage, the King B pilots, aviators that supported us, fast movers, A1 Sky Raiders, you know, even Spectre. I mean, Hector's one mission. We went through four Specters on one night, killed thousands, but we didn't have time to count the bodies. Oh, yeah. So I was very fortunate. And again, it's like I felt that there's divine intervention here. Many times they helped me get back here.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, I would say definitely, so.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Oh, absolutely. For sure.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, John, I just want to say it was an honor to interview you and have you sitting across from me and so glad we did this and welcome home.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Glad to be home and glad to be here. Sitting in the same chair that Sarah sat in and all those other great interviews you've had along the way there. My God, Legend, we just go down the list, man. These shows are phenomenal.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you.

[John Stryker Meyer]

So my wife and I are big fans. We'll continue to be so, sir.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Yes, sir. Brother.

[Sean Ryan]

Cheers.

[John Stryker Meyer]

Till next time. NBA veteran Jim Jackson takes you on the court. You get a chance to dig into my 14 year career in the NBA and also get the input from the people that will be joining. Charles Barkley. I'm excited to be on your podcast, man. It's an honor. Spike Lee, entrepreneur, filmmaker, Academy Award winner, or Nick's fans. Now, you see, I got you, but also how sports brings life, passion, music, all of this together. The Jim Jackson show, part of the Rich Eisen Podcast Network. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.