#200 Tom Homan - The U.S. Border Czar

Summary

Shawn Ryan Show – Episode #200: Tom Holman - The U.S. Border Czar

Host: Sean Casey
Guest: Tom Holman, Former Acting Director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)
Release Date: May 15, 2025

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Introduction

In episode #200 of the Shawn Ryan Show, host Sean Casey interviews Tom Holman, a seasoned law enforcement veteran with over four decades of experience. Holman, known as the "Border Czar," served as the Acting Director of ICE from January 2017 to June 2018 during President Trump's administration. The conversation delves into Holman's personal journey, his pivotal role in shaping U.S. immigration policy, and his perspectives on contemporary border security challenges.

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Early Life and Background

Tom Holman opens up about his upbringing in West Carthage, New York, a small town of approximately 2,500 residents. Born into a strong Catholic family with seven siblings, Holman recounts the patriotic environment of his community, heavily influenced by proximity to Fort Drum, a prominent Army base.

Notable Quote:
"I grew up in an era where police were highly respected and people loved their country. Literally American flags everywhere. It's a great childhood."
— Tom Holman [04:50]

Holman's father served as a judge and was previously a police officer, instilling in him a lifelong commitment to law enforcement. This familial legacy motivated Holman from a young age to pursue a career in policing, a dream he fulfilled immediately after college.

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Career in Border Patrol and ICE

Holman's professional journey began in the Border Patrol in 1984, starting as a GS5 Border Patrol agent in Campo, California. Over the years, he advanced to become a Special Agent, Criminal Investigator, and eventually rose through the ranks to lead ICE.

Notable Quote:
"I became an ICE director through the ranks, from the bottom to the top. And what I like about that is the 20,000 men and women that work for me, I never asked them to do anything that I didn't do myself because I was one of them."
— Tom Holman [16:03]

His tenure at ICE was marked by significant achievements in combating human and drug smuggling, as well as dismantling criminal cartels involved in trafficking operations.

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Experiences and Challenges on the Southern Border

Holman shares harrowing experiences from his time on the southern border, detailing the brutality of cartel operations and the human cost of illegal immigration.

Notable Quote:
"As a father, when I sit down and talk to a little girl who's been raped by a smuggling group, it changes who we are. You never thought a 9-year-old should have to beg for her life."
— Tom Holman [25:15]

One poignant story involves the discovery of a 9-year-old girl who suffered unimaginable trauma during her journey, highlighting the urgent need for secure borders to prevent such tragedies.

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Impact of Political Policies on Border Security

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the contrasting policies of the Trump and Biden administrations. Holman criticizes Biden's approach, attributing increased illegal crossings, deaths, and human trafficking to intentional policies that he asserts have undermined border security.

Notable Quote:
"For four years, I woke up pissed off because I knew when they open this border up, more people would die, more women and children would get sexually assaulted by the cartels."
— Tom Holman [22:20]

He lauds Trump's executive orders and strategic initiatives, such as the "Remain in Mexico" policy and the construction of additional border barriers, as effective measures that restored order and significantly reduced illegal immigration.

Notable Quote:
"We now have the most secure border in the history of this nation."
— Tom Holman [57:35]

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Human Trafficking and Sex Trafficking

Holman provides disturbing accounts of human trafficking, particularly involving women and children. He emphasizes the role of cartels in perpetuating these heinous crimes and the psychological toll they take on law enforcement officers.

Notable Quote:
"Half a million children were trafficking in this country, smuggled into the hands of criminal cartels. That's family separation on a massive scale."
— Tom Holman [138:05]

He advocates for aggressive measures to dismantle trafficking networks and protect vulnerable populations, stressing that securing the border is essential to curbing these atrocities.

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Concerns about Terrorism

Addressing national security, Holman expresses deep concerns about the potential for terrorists to exploit weakened border controls under the Biden administration. He underscores the importance of thorough vetting processes to prevent malicious actors from entering the country.

Notable Quote:
"If we have to go search for you and go through the whole process, haven't you formally deported? There are certain bars placed on you statutorily, anywhere from five to 20 years. They can't stay here."
— Tom Holman [146:00]

Holman asserts that the lax policies enable not only criminals but also terrorists to infiltrate the U.S., posing significant threats to national security.

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Sanctuary Cities and Law Enforcement Cooperation

A contentious topic discussed is the role of sanctuary cities, which Holman argues impede effective law enforcement by refusing to cooperate with ICE and Border Patrol in detaining and deporting illegal immigrants.

Notable Quote:
"Sanctuary cities should be illegal. They're knowingly releasing public safety threats back into the community."
— Tom Holman [94:07]

He laments the political support sanctuary cities receive, attributing it to leftist agendas that prioritize politics over public safety.

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Morale and Support among Border Patrol and ICE Agents

Holman highlights a resurgence in morale among Border Patrol and ICE agents under the Trump administration, attributing it to renewed support and effective leadership.

Notable Quote:
"Morale's at an all-time high because we're getting to do what we're here to do—protect the nation's border."
— Tom Holman [108:04]

He contrasts this with the low morale and high turnover rates experienced during the previous administration, emphasizing the positive impact of strong leadership and clear policies.

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Border Wall and Infrastructure

The construction and enhancement of the U.S.-Mexico border wall are pivotal themes. Holman describes the wall's strategic placement based on intelligence and crossing patterns, integrating advanced technologies to bolster security.

Notable Quote:
"The wall saves lives by preventing the most vulnerable from making the deadly journey."
— Tom Holman [169:26]

He discusses innovations like buoy barriers in the Rio Grande and smart wall technologies that include sensors and communication tools for Border Patrol agents.

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Anti-Drone and Tunnel Technologies

Addressing modern smuggling tactics, Holman discusses the increasing use of drones and tunnels by cartels to infiltrate the U.S. He underscores the necessity of adopting cutting-edge technologies to counter these threats.

Notable Quote:
"Drone activity is picking up, but there's a lot of technology. We need companies with advanced drone detection and mitigation systems."
— Tom Holman [150:05]

Holman also mentions collaborations with defense departments and technology firms to enhance border security capabilities.

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Future Plans and the Role of Government and Mexico

Looking ahead, Holman advocates for continued aggressive measures to combat cartels and improve border security. He emphasizes the importance of international cooperation, particularly with Mexico, to effectively dismantle trafficking networks.

Notable Quote:
"It’s going to take leadership from the United States and cooperation from Mexico to wipe the cartels off the face of the earth."
— Tom Holman [150:02]

He calls for enhanced funding, legislative support, and strategic partnerships to sustain and expand border security initiatives.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In his closing remarks, Holman passionately defends the Trump administration's border policies, advocating for a secure and humane immigration system that prioritizes national security and public safety over political agendas.

Notable Quote:
"Secure borders save lives. Every day, our agents are keeping this country safe while facing undue vilification in the media."
— Tom Holman [174:08]

He urges the American public to recognize and support the men and women on the front lines of border security, framing them as heroes dedicated to protecting the nation.

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Key Takeaways

• Personal Commitment: Tom Holman's lifelong dedication to law enforcement and border security is rooted in his small-town upbringing and family legacy.

• Impact of Policies: Holman credits the Trump administration with restoring order to border security, drastically reducing illegal crossings, and combating human trafficking and drug smuggling.

• Critique of Current Administration: He strongly criticizes Biden's border policies, attributing increased illegal immigration, deaths, and trafficking to intentional lax measures.

• Humanitarian Concerns: Holman emphasizes the human cost of illegal immigration, particularly the suffering of women and children subjected to cartel violence.

• National Security: Concerns about terrorists exploiting weakened border controls underline the importance of rigorous vetting processes.

• Sanctuary Cities: These jurisdictions are portrayed as significant obstacles to effective border enforcement and public safety.

• Technological Advancements: Adoption of advanced technologies, including smart walls, buoy barriers, and anti-drone systems, is crucial for modernizing border security.

• Future Strategies: Continued aggressive measures, international cooperation, and legislative support are essential for maintaining and enhancing border security.

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Notable Quotes Summary

1. On Childhood and Values:
   "I grew up in an era where police were highly respected and people loved their country. Literally American flags everywhere. It's a great childhood."
   — Tom Holman [04:50]

2. On Rising Through Ranks:
   "I became an ICE director through the ranks, from the bottom to the top. And what I like about that is the 20,000 men and women that work for me, I never asked them to do anything that I didn't do myself because I was one of them."
   — Tom Holman [16:03]

3. On Personal Trauma and Policy Impact:
   "As a father, when I sit down and talk to a little girl who's been raped by a smuggling group, it changes who we are. You never thought a 9-year-old should have to beg for her life."
   — Tom Holman [25:15]

4. On Securing the Border:
   "We now have the most secure border in the history of this nation."
   — Tom Holman [57:35]

5. On Human Trafficking:
   "Half a million children were trafficking in this country, smuggled into the hands of criminal cartels. That's family separation on a massive scale."
   — Tom Holman [138:05]

6. On Terrorism and Security Threats:
   "If we have to go search for you and go through the whole process, haven't you formally deported? There are certain bars placed on you statutorily, anywhere from five to 20 years. They can't stay here."
   — Tom Holman [146:00]

7. On Sanctuary Cities:
   "Sanctuary cities should be illegal. They're knowingly releasing public safety threats back into the community."
   — Tom Holman [94:07]

8. On Morale Among Agents:
   "Morale's at an all-time high because we're getting to do what we're here to do—protect the nation's border."
   — Tom Holman [108:04]

9. On the Border Wall:
   "The wall saves lives by preventing the most vulnerable from making the deadly journey."
   — Tom Holman [169:26]

10. Final Appeal:
    "Secure borders save lives. Every day, our agents are keeping this country safe while facing undue vilification in the media."
    — Tom Holman [174:08]

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Closing Remarks

Tom Holman's impassioned advocacy for strong border security underscores the critical intersection of national security, humanitarian concerns, and effective law enforcement. His firsthand experiences and unwavering commitment provide a compelling perspective on the complexities of U.S. immigration policy and border management.

For listeners seeking an in-depth understanding of border security and immigration enforcement, this episode offers invaluable insights from a veteran who has been at the forefront of shaping and implementing pivotal policies.

Transcript

[Tom Holman]

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[Host]

Tom Holman, welcome to the show.

[Tom Holman]

Thanks for having me.

[Sean Casey]

Oh, thanks for coming. We've been trying to get this done since, man, I feel like it's been like six months we've been playing phone tag and trying to get you in here. So I just, I really appreciate you taking the time and I've been looking forward to this interview for a very long time. And then I, and then I thought it, I just thought it would never happen as, as busy as you are.

[Tom Holman]

So I'm busy, but I'm glad I'm here. I think this is, you got huge bandwidth and American people need to know what's happening in this country right now.

[Sean Casey]

Thank you. Thank you. So I'd like to do a life story on you on the front half of the interview and kind of talk about your journey into becoming the border czar and some of the events that you faced leading up to that. And then on the back half of the interview, I'd like to do all current event stuff, everything that's going on at the border, what it was like before, what it's like now. And then, some of the measures that you guys are implementing down there and maybe up there, too, to keep us safe here at home and take care of the issues at hand, which seem to be major issues. So looking forward to it.

[Tom Holman]

Let's do it.

[Sean Casey]

But everybody starts off with an introduction here.

[Tom Holman]

So.

[Host]

Tom Holman. Borders are under President Trump's second administration, appointed to oversee the nation's border security and interior enforcement operations. A law enforcement veteran with over four decades of experience, starting as a Border.

[Sean Casey]

Patrol agent and rising to become one of the most influential officials in U.S. immigration policy.

[Host]

Former acting director of U.S. immigration and Customs and Enforcement, ICE serving from January 2017 to June 2018. Where you shaped some of the most.

[Sean Casey]

Talked about immigration policies of the Trump era.

[Host]

Your man of the year from.

[Sean Casey]

Congratulations on that from the National Police.

[Host]

Defense foundation and Border Hero award from America's Voice.

[Sean Casey]

And I think those both came out last week.

[Tom Holman]

Yeah, last week.

[Sean Casey]

Congratulations. Congratulations. And yeah, you know, I Waited to tell everybody that you were coming on just because of, you know, who you are and all the security and stuff. And it was funny, when I finally broke the news last week, for whatever reason, everybody that works for me started giving me their birth certificates and passports. So I don't know what's going on, but they're pretty tuned in. So.

[Host]

But yeah. So couple other things real quick.

[Sean Casey]

Everybody gets a gift. I got you two gifts.

[Tom Holman]

The famous Gummies Vigilance League.

[Sean Casey]

Gummy bears. Made here in the USA. Legal in all 50 states. It's just candy until RFK outlaws it. So.

[Host]

But.

[Sean Casey]

And then another thing.

[Tom Holman]

Thank you.

[Host]

You're welcome.

[Sean Casey]

Found out you're a Catholic this morning, and so I want to give you one of those. One of my really good friends, Dom Razzo, sells these rosaries. And my journey to faith is relatively new. I grew up Catholic, and I'm still.

[Tom Holman]

Thank you. Thank you very much.

[Sean Casey]

Yeah. You know, and I just. I think the Catholic religion just. There's one thing they get right for sure, it's protection. And with what you're facing right now, I'm sure you could use a little extra protection. So I carry one of those every single day.

[Tom Holman]

Carry one of these. Carry one of these.

[Sean Casey]

What is that?

[Tom Holman]

St. Michael's love that.

[Sean Casey]

Love that. But. Well, Tom.

[Tom Holman]

And the Virgin Mary on the backside.

[Sean Casey]

Nice.

[Tom Holman]

Carry both. I'm covered on both sides.

[Sean Casey]

Nice, Nice. Where'd you grow up?

[Tom Holman]

Small town called West Carthage, New York. Population about 2,500.

[Sean Casey]

What were you into growing up?

[Tom Holman]

Pardon me?

[Sean Casey]

What were you into growing up?

[Tom Holman]

Strong Catholic family. I mean, mom, dad, seven kids. Grew up in farm country. There's two things you do in that little town. Either work on a farm or you work at Fort Drum, an Army. Army base up by there, or you're a logger cutting down trees. So it's a small community, very patriotic community. I talk about that a lot. I mean, walking through this village I grew up in, just about everybody had American flag on the front porch. It's like I talk about in my book. It's like being in Mayberry. Everybody knows everybody, right? My mom and dad, very strong Catholics. And I think every mother in that village spanked me at one time or another. That's back in the day. The village made who you were. You know, it takes a village to grow a kid. And I give a lot of credit to the village I grew up in. And I'm serious. I think every mother in that village gave me a spanking one time or another, but that was okay. Back then, they just call your mom and say, I had to give Tom a spanking. But very strict family. My dad was a judge, so, you know, strict upbringing, but it was a very patriotic little town. We're only about six miles outside of Fort Drum. So I grew up in an era where police were highly respected and people loved their country. I mean, literally American flags everywhere. It's a great childhood. And it spooks me sometimes, actually has such a great childhood, I'm afraid that I could not give my children the same childhood I had. Where you go, you wake up Saturday morning, ride your bike around the village, gathering up buddies to have a baseball game, and you play baseball all day. But the mill whistle goes off at noon. You knew you had to go home at lunch, go back, play ball. Then at five o' clock, the mill whistle goes off again. Means you got to go home and have dinner. But it was a great childhood.

[Sean Casey]

Yeah, you don't hear too much of that anymore these days. You know, that's very similar to where I grew up. But do you have any brothers and sisters?

[Tom Holman]

Yeah, there's five. There's seven of us.

[Sean Casey]

Seven of you guys?

[Tom Holman]

I got one brother and five sisters.

[Sean Casey]

Damn.

[Tom Holman]

Very strong sister. The thing is, what I'm proud about my family is just about everybody went to some sort of public service, Right. Our brother, career fireman, just retired a couple years ago. All my sisters but one were a nurse, so, you know, they all felt a duty, go back and serve the communities in one way or the other. My dad, you know, he ended as a judge, but he was a cop before then. My grandfather was a cop, so I always knew, I already knew. Always knew I was going to be some sort of cop. That's what I wanted forever. So I've lived my dream. I mean, I was fishing my brother last year, and he looked at me, made a comment, says, you ever think about the ride? You had this before Trump won the election. I was coming back. I said, what do you mean? He goes, you went from West Carthage to the West Wing. That's a hell of a ride. And it was. It shows what a great country this is.

[Sean Casey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

How early did you know you wanted.

[Sean Casey]

To get into law enforcement?

[Tom Holman]

Kindergarten, first grade, kindergarten. I always knew. In this small town I grew up in, we had a police department. And next, the west car just called Carthage's bigger town police department. And my dad would. I remember my dad coming home, wore the uniform, and I knew he was out there protecting people. Then when he became a judge, when I was still A child, middle of the night, state troopers knocking at the door, bringing somebody in to get arraigned in the middle of the night. I was cops surrounded by cops all the time. So I knew I was going to be a police officer. And I did become a police officer straight out of college before I joined the border Patrol. But I knew I had no doubt in my mind there's one thing I want to do, and that's be a law enforcement officer.

[Sean Casey]

Why did you. Where'd you become a police officer?

[Tom Holman]

West Carthage.

[Sean Casey]

West Carthage. You stayed at home?

[Tom Holman]

I served just like my dad and grandfather. We served the local community again. The local community. I grew up, they raised me right. Matter of fact, when I became the ice director under President Trump, I remember I was in the office, first day, my public affairs officer, Barbara Gonzalez walks in. First day on the job. So, okay, you got abc, NBC, you got Fox News, you got Washington, Washington Post, got New York Times. She's trying to schedule all these first day interviews. I looked at her, says, Watertown Daily Times and WWNY tv. She looked at me and says, what are these? From a hometown newspaper? Hometown television station? She looked at me, she goes, Ms. Troman, with all due respect, you got nationally syndicated. I said, I don't care. My hometown gets first. They raise me. I owe them. They get the first interview. So the next day we got on the plane, flew to Watertown, which is the biggest town where I grew up. I did Watertown Daily Times. I did WWNY tv.

[Sean Casey]

Oh, man, that is cool. That is awesome. I'll bet they appreciated that.

[Tom Holman]

They did. But I really love my hometown where I grew up. Matter of fact, I. I recently bought a lake house up there. I'm gonna retire there someday. I was born there. I was raised there, went to college. There was a police officer there. I'm gonna die there someday.

[Sean Casey]

Man, that is really cool. That is really cool. What got you to switch from local law enforcement in Carthage to border patrol?

[Tom Holman]

I was with a couple police officers fishing up on the St. Lawrence River. River, that device Canyon, United States. Great fishing. Alexander Bay. Fishing now. I saw boar patrol around, didn't quite know what they did, but while we're fishing, we come in the boat, we're at the dock, having a few beers. The boar patrol boat come pulling in. We just start talking, you know, Pretty soon he knew we were all cops. And of course, he's wearing a uniform. He's board relations. We started talking about our job, his job. And his job sounded really interesting. He looked at me and says, we're Given the test in four weeks. Watertown post office. Y' all go on there and take it. So I did. Six months later, I get a phone call, go for an interview. So my dream was there's a Borg patrol station there on Wellesley island. Right in the St. Lawrence river in the shipping channel. Beautiful place. Well, if I get to the border patrol, I can come back up here and work at Wellesley island and be a bor patrol agent. Right where I grew up. So I got into Borg patrol. But after a few years on the southwest border, there's so much action, you know, you eat it up. And I knew the northern border was pretty much vacation paradise. I just didn't. I never applied to go back up north because it was just. There was a lot of action on the southern border. Saw a lot of terrible things, but also was very rewarding. Saved a lot of lives. So I decided to stay on southern border until I became a special agent.

[Sean Casey]

What year is this?

[Tom Holman]

1984.

[Sean Casey]

1984.

[Tom Holman]

This is when I joined the border patrol.

[Sean Casey]

Wow. Lots of action going on there all the way back then.

[Tom Holman]

Oh, yeah. I mean, San Diego sector, 1500 night just coming through. San Diego sector. They used to gather up on the soccer fields just east of Tijuana. Hundreds and hundreds would gather. Then when the sun went down, they just ran north. I mean, it's actually like a movie. You just grab what you could. I was in Campo, a smaller station, but as a GS5 Border Patrol agent. I tried to get all the overtime I could get. So I go down and work the overtime on the weekends or whatever days I had off to work the soccer field or work the checkpoints. But illegal Grace was. There's very few border patrol agents. So you're overwhelmed every night down there.

[Sean Casey]

Damn. How long did you do that?

[Tom Holman]

Four years. Then became a special agent. Criminal investigator.

[Sean Casey]

What is the difference between a border patrol agent and a special agent?

[Tom Holman]

It's like a police department. They got your uniform division on patrol. You got. The specialists are more the investigators. So you investigate conspiracies. You investigate alien smuggling and drug smuggling and trafficking. Illicit trafficking of people and goods. So I left the uniform division. The uniform division became a criminal investigator. Special agent. So I went from Campbell, California. It was a small station. When I got to Campbell as a Borg license, I think I was like number 34. Now it's got 300 people there. So I went from there and I became a special agent in Phoenix, Arizona in 1988.

[Sean Casey]

What kind of stuff were you investigating?

[Tom Holman]

Mostly immigration related alien smuggling. I was in I spent most of my time alien smuggling unit. So we're investigating, you know, criminal cartels who smuggle people and smuggle drugs. So that I spent most of my career doing that. But you know, you do immigration fraud, people selling frauds and green cards and birth certificates and work site enforcement work Site enforcement came around 1986. 87. Did a lot of work, site enforcement. He went to companies, large factories and arrested illegal aliens. But I spent most of my time in Phoenix in anti smuggling unit. So we're mostly working the smuggling groups coming from Mexico up to the United States. Mexico and South America. Damn.

[Host]

What are.

[Sean Casey]

And you stayed there for quite a while, correct?

[Tom Holman]

Stayed in Phoenix for 10 years. I climbed the ladder and I was an agent, became a supervisory special agent. Then Deputy addi, Assistant District Director for investigations. Then from there I went to San Antonio, became the head of that office. The addi, which equals a SAC Special agent charge. They had different names back then, but yeah, I was actually the first ICE director who actually came up through the ranks. I started at the bottom run and got to the top. Didn't miss one run. So out of all my achievements, that's my most proudest achievement. I became an ICE director through the ranks, from the bottom to the top. And what I like about that is the 20,000 men and women that work for me, I never asked them to do anything that I didn't do myself because I was one of them. So I'm very proud of that.

[Sean Casey]

Well, I know, I mean, just, you know, I got friends everywhere and I can just, you know, because of my background and your people have a tremendous amount of respect for you. And that's just really good to see. You don't see that amount of respect very often, especially within government. And so I just want to applaud you for that.

[Tom Holman]

I mean, well, look, I was one of them. And I think one of my life's lessons my dad taught me is never forget where you came from. So when I was the ICE director, I don't care if you're GS5, you're an SCS. I'd go on the cafeteria and eat with whoever grade didn't mean anything. And I never forgot where I came from. And actually when I retired the first time, my message to the troops where I left was, I may be retiring from this position, but I'm always going to have your six. Because the men and women in border patrol, men and women in ice, what great American patriots they are. So. And I'm back again and again. Don't forget where I come from, I don't let anybody carry my bag. I show up at the airport, everybody wants to be the director's or the board's already make sure we take care of them. I carry my own bag. I'm happy staying in Hampton Inn. I fly coach. I'm just a small town kid from Carthage, New York. So never forget where you came from. It's probably the biggest life lesson I've ever learned from my dad. My dad, who was a war hero himself, respected that man more than anybody in the world.

[Sean Casey]

Your dad was a war hero?

[Tom Holman]

World War II, 11th Airborne. Wow.

[Sean Casey]

Wow.

[Tom Holman]

True story. So he. A couple Bronze stars, Purple Hearts. Never knew it. Never knew it. Till he got really sick. He had to go to assisted living, bombed. All these medals. He never wanted to talk about them. So I got him put in a shadow box. And when he was doing his will, you know, all these kids, hey, what do you want? What do you want? I just wanted one thing. I want the shadow box because you never talked about it. And that's what I want. I got it. It's hanging in my office right now. And one day, I was hanging in my office, and I was vice director, and John Kelly, who was a secretary of Homeland Security, came in that day right away, keyed on that shadow box. He goes, they're not yours. So he walked up to him, he goes, I said, they're my dad. My dad never displayed them. My dad never talked about it. But I know they're pretty impressive to get a Bronze Star in World War II. He says, yes, it was. He goes, you know what these all mean? I said, no, I never. So there's a picture. His photographer was with him. They took a picture of John Kelly's walking through each of these medals. I remember the one. There's a rifle with a leaf round. He goes, you know what that means? Means your dad was in gunfire, didn't hear it from a distance. He was involved. And so he walked me through all these things and he says, do you know how we earned these? I said, no.

[Sean Casey]

You still don't know?

[Tom Holman]

No, I don't.

[Sean Casey]

Wow.

[Tom Holman]

I read a few things. When he came home from the war, there was a parade for him. So they talk about how he's wounded in New Guinea. The second time he got wounded, it was bad enough they sent him home, but John Kelly offered me. He said, look, I'll find out for you. For your permission, I can grab his records. But then he came back, said they were destroyed in a fire in Kansas, Kansas City or something. All his records were destroyed so he couldn't get his hands on him. So my dad never talked about it.

[Sean Casey]

Wow. Different generation man.

[Tom Holman]

Wow.

[Host]

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[Sean Casey]

It's all they think about.

[Host]

And if you ask me, this could happen at any time. Will it be terrorists?

[Sean Casey]

Hackers?

[Host]

We don't know. I just think there's a possibility that something's coming. That's why I'm asking you to get prepared and I'm making it easy. Go right now to preparewithshawn.com and you'll see a three month emergency food kit from My Patriot Supply for $100 off. Their three month kit provides 2,000 calories a day, the amount most people need in an emergency down to the calorie. They've studied survival and know what they're doing. If you're like me and want to help take control of your family's safety, this could be your chance. Go to preparewithshawn.com and get $100 off a three month emergency food kit from My Patriot Supply. Preparewithshawn.com what were.

[Sean Casey]

You'Ve been involved in a lot of operations? What are some of the ones that stick out to you over your career?

[Tom Holman]

There's a couple of things I've been involved in. Probably created the Tom Holman you see today. People always ask Me, I get this question a lot. Why are you always angry? Why are you always mad? Not so much now for the last four years, right? Because I wake up every day pissed off under the Biden administration because we handed that administration the most secure border in my lifetime. I've been doing this since 1984. And they unsecured on purpose. And I knew when they unsecured it, more people would die, more women, children would be sexually assaulted by the cartels. Not only would more illegal aliens die, but more Americans are going to die from drugs coming across the open border. I just woke up today, can't believe they unsecured a border on purpose for four years. I'm pissed off and there is lots of videos of me yelling at members of Congress. You know, and I worked for Fox News for the last few years. I lose my temper in Fox News sometimes because of what I've seen through my career. The thing that probably when I first joined the border patrol, I wasn't on border patrol a month. And I'm on patrol near Tecate on a back row on Forward Drive, sign cutting. And I see this guy walking down this dirt road. It was an illegal alien, drunk. He just happened to get. He lived in Tecate and somehow got across the line. Just hanging out and he's carrying something. How's he carrying? Baseball bat? What is it? So pull him. He was carrying a human leg.

[Sean Casey]

He was carrying a human leg.

[Tom Holman]

A human leg that he found. It was just a bone that he found on his journey wherever. So of course, no, I'm borb, true legend. So I'll take him to custody. But I remember he was very intoxicated and called the local sheriff and they ran the investigation. But I was in a month and I'm coming from upstate New York. All of a sudden they get put on the southern border and just see some of the things you saw. It was like it was eye opening. It wasn't rare to find a dead body of an illegal alien that was making a journey and died making that journey. Because the smugglers don't care if you get sick. They're not calling 911 because that alien means nothing to him. Now he's not going to get paid to get him to the final destination. They just leave him there to die. I can't tell you how many aliens we find near death's door making that journey. And we actually were able to get them helping to save them. But the thing that really, really affected me was two things. Number one, talking to a little girl about Nine years old, I was part of a smuggling group who was raped multiple times by members of the criminal cartel.

[Sean Casey]

Nine years old.

[Tom Holman]

Yeah. And let me tell you something. As tough as a guy you want to be, when you sit down, you get on your knees, you talk to this little girl and everything innocent, pure has been ripped from her. Where you can tell that she has no faith in humanity. I mean, this little girl's world was destroyed. She's never going to be the same. I don't care how much counseling she gets, right? And I'm a father. And you think, you know, how could someone do that to such an innocent little girl? And it really changes who we are. I mean it's just like, you know, I can't believe there's a human being out there that would do that to a little girl. The members of cartels are animals. They don't care about these people. These people are commodity. And there's been several instances where, you know, women and children that I've been involved with through an investigation or sexist ultra cartelsis, you know, demanded as part of crossing them. Either cross across the desert or over the river or just take it, just, just, just rape them for the hell of it. I mean I've seen rape trees, you know, where these smugglers would just hang panties up in a tree as a trophy. And well, the nine year old girl shook me because then you realize just how inhumane these people are. The thing that probably shaped me the most back in, I think it was 2003, I was in Dallas, Texas giving a speech to the International association of Chiefs of Police. We just became ICE less than a year earlier. They took customs and immigration made ice. So I was there to explain this new agency and how we can work together and collaborate. I remember getting an emergency phone call from Washington D.C. john Morton, who was the director at the time, but it was actually his deputy, Ms. Adultery, called me and says, hey, you're in Dallas, you need to get down to Victoria, Texas right away. There's a tragedy down there and we want you to go down there and take over the investigation. Because they knew at the time I was assigned headquarters, they knew I spent most of my career, as I said, in aimless smuggling and trafficking cases. So they flew me down there in an air Marine plane and I landed down at the crime scene. When I got there, the sheriff and I think it was a Texas Ranger walking through the crime scene. I said, okay, it's yours. So I remember walking up to, there's a tractor trailer, 19 people baked to Death in back to that tractor trailer. 19 people baked to death. Died, baked. Big heat. They're in a steel box. Tractor trailer, steel box, black, no air. In the middle of summer. And so I get up to the crime scene and I walk up to the crime scene right away there's just a trailer, the truck's gone. He unhooked it and he left the driver. So I walk up to the crime scene and all I have is a suit. I'm wearing a suit. I was giving a speech. I left. I didn't get back to hotel and get my stuff. I went straight to the scene. So I get there and I walk up to this tractor trailer. Right away I see several bodies on the ground. Because when those doors finally opened up, the people in such a rush to get air that they knocked some dead bodies out of the truck onto the ground. So I noticed some dead bodies on the ground there. Then I got to the back of the tractor trailer and I looked in the back of the tractor trailer. I just see bad people, most of them in their underwear because they were trying to get some relief from the searing heat. And right away, so I looked at. I keyed on a little boy and he was partially covered up by who later found out was his father who was protecting him. And I keyed in on him and he was wearing the same color underwear that my little boy had. Same underwear. And I had a five year old son at the time. So right away I keyed in on him. So we had. So I took over the investigation. Just the term Houston flew in and a helicopter and came to the crime scene. But when I was processing the crime scene, we had a guy taking pictures and I was telling him take all these pictures, all I needed. But I told him that we would do the boy last and mainly because I couldn't handle it at the time. So we process a crime scene and I testified to this. I got angry. One testimony where someone claimed I didn't care about dying children. He should have wore my shoes. I've seen a lot of dying children, dead children in my career. So when we got to the child, I knelt down beside him, I put my hand on him and I said a prayer. Because I knew based on the years I've done alien smog investigations, what a horrible, horrible death this child went through. He begged the death. And after we crime scene photos, of course the investigation where I'm there on the ground, they had to fly clothes in. Again, I came up with clothes on my back. But through the investigation we found out that Little boy was the first one to die. And the witnesses there that survived said that little boy begged his father not to let him die. Little boy knew he was dying, begged his father, please don't let me die. I want to see mom again. I want to see my mommy. And when you hear the testimony from the surviving witnesses, it just tore you up how this child, no five year old should have to beg for his life. No 5 year old should be baking to death in a black box that got 175 degrees, they said. And he was the first one to die and his father died on top of him. Because some of the witnesses were saying that some of the members of the group back there talked about tearing the boy apart and putting him out through there's brake lights they busted out, tried to get some air. And there's some talk about maybe we put parts of the boy out there to draw attention to our problem that never got fully vetted because some witnesses said didn't happen but. But his father did die on top of his child. And it just, you know, hovered him. And you think about, I just don't.

[Sean Casey]

Think about ripped this boy apart body part.

[Tom Holman]

That was testimony from a couple of them people. Now a couple people say that wasn't true, but there's a reason the father was over the top of him like this. We asked why. Anyway, Jah was the first one to die then. So many people are starting to die and there's so many people in back of the tractor trailer, they're dying standing up and trying to find a place to fall. And like I said, when we got the crime scene, most of them are in their underwear trying to get some relief from the heat. So through that investigation, the first couple weeks, I'm listening to this testimony and I just don't think about, okay, that child died. I'm thinking about how he died, what his last two hours was like. What was his last hour like? His father couldn't help him. His father got, put him in that position begging his father to help him. His father can't. They're in a steel box, locked in a steel box, no air in there. The air compressor was turned off and information was. It was turned off because he wanted to draw attention to the truck. Because if the truck's empty, going through a checkpoint, if the air conditioning on, that means you got something back there. So there's a lot of testimony from a lot of different witnesses saying a lot of different things. But the way that child died and I didn't sleep for a week down there, I'm a pretty tough guy. But that affected me because I had a five year old son. At the time you started thinking about why is my son lucky and that child wasn't. Why is my son born in the greatest nation on earth and this child wasn't. And so I've been honest about that. After we put all 14 of those people in jail, anybody involved, they're in prison and we shut the investigation down pretty quick, put a lot of people in prison. And after the investigation was done, I had to go get help. I couldn't sleep. Just the image of this little boy, how he suffered. And I had a son same age, that affected me more than anything because I realized that didn't have to happen. If we had a secure border, that little child wouldn't have died. And that's why for the last four years, that's one of the reasons I wake up, everybody every pissed off because I knew when they open this border up, more kids are going to die, more women and children will get sexually assaulted, more Americans going to die from fentanyl and other drugs come across that border, sex trafficking is going to increase tenfold. So I woke up every day for four years. I'm Biden pissed off. And I actually did. I woke up just mad that Joe Biden's the first president in the history of this nation who came into office and unsecured a border on purpose. There wasn't mismanagement, I wasn't incompetent. He knew exactly what he was doing. I wrote an op ed foxnews.com about six months for the election. I said, if Joe Biden becomes president, we lose the border just based on what you're saying. Put a moratorium on deportation, going to end ICE detention. I'm going ward amnesty, I'm going ward daca. I want to give free health care to illegal aliens. You make that type of promise to entire world, they're going to come to the greatest nation on earth. So I knew what was going to happen and I knew every morning I woke up and for four years I go out and give speeches and I tell people I'd be 7, 8 o' clock at night. I had a great dinner banquet and I give them the speech and I told everybody in the room, great night, isn't it? Let me tell you about the border tonight while we're sitting here eating this meal. Women are being raped as part of defeat across that border. And the child's gonna die tonight, whether at the hands of the cartel or drown the river I've been on the river and watched BOR patrol agents give CPR to babies. Last year I made a trip down to Brooks county for a ride along just before President Trump was back in office.

[Sean Casey]

Where's Brooks County?

[Tom Holman]

In Texas Sheriff Benny Martinez. I sat in his office. He has like six deputies. He told me every deputy is doing immigration work 24, 7. They're not even deputies. They're out there looking for dead bodies. At the time he had over 100 dead bodies found in this county of aliens that died making an attorney just died. So his troopers, I mean his deputies were out there every day finding dead bodies. I was with him for four hours. We found two. Then talked to a doctor down there who told me this story. Now I didn't see it. I just told this story. Mother and father and a child, a 22 month old little girl from an African nation was crossing the border, coming across the river. Smugglers, the animals there bringing across in a boat. Borto starts approaching them. So what do the smugglers do? They throw their family in the water, can't swim. Because they know Borbato is going to go rescue this family and they can get away. So Boruch ran and rescued him. They thought they rescued him. But the little girl later died at the hospital. And the doctor shared with me that the little girl to her post mortem was assaulted in every little opening of her body as required by one of those six cartel members. All these things I see and hear about that story came to me. I didn't see it, but that story came to me. But it doesn't surprise me because the stuff nine year old girl. I talked about the tractor trailer. The driver of that tractor trailer knew these people couldn't breathe. They knew there weren't water back there. And what did he do? He just unhooked the trailer and left because they were dying. And through testimony he was calling the smuggler, complaining they were tearing his truck apart because they tore the lights out to try to get air in there. These people are ruthless. So for four years I wake up pissed off. I knew this stuff was going fire up again at a record pace. And it did. You look at the numbers like 4000 aliens have died making the journey on Joe Biden. A quarter of a million Americans died from fentanyl come across the open border under Biden. Sex trafficking of women and children skyrocketed. Number of people on the terrorist watch list record historic numbers came across that border. They arrested 400 of them. You got 2.2 million got aways how many of them came from a country sponsoring terror? How many of them were sex trafficking women and children? How many of them were carrying fentanyl? So over four years, I was waking up every day pissed off.

[Sean Casey]

Damn. Did you say 22 months?

[Tom Holman]

22 months old.

[Sean Casey]

And this is pretty common.

[Tom Holman]

One's too many. Well, it didn't surprise me a bit. It turned your stomach. I mean, this other doctor we visited down there, he has a big old ranch. He finds dead bodies all the time. He found a young female that was left to her body. Her panties were down on her ankles, her ankle was broken. What he says he's seen before is after Jean got raped, they break her ankle so she can't go seek help. She dies there. He had a picture of a 12 year old little boy. They went over a fence at his property. This little boy obviously didn't make any. He died right there at the fence line. So he's kind of crawled up next to the fence. I mean, I've seen a lot of death, but I've also talked to a lot of people who took pictures of dead bodies on the property. I've done alien smoking investigations for a long time. I've heard so much testimony from people that victimize. I mean, Operation Ice Storm, Phoenix, Arizona. After I finished that Victoria operation with 14 day aliens, then they sent me to Phoenix, Arizona to run operation Ice Storm where you got smuggling groups ripping each other off because when you get a load of 25 people, they're worth a lot of money. So you have alien smug groups doing rips from each other. They find out where the low house is, they go armed, they take this group. There was a shootout on the highway down there because one group stolen another group's load of people. Bodies are piling up. Maricopa County. Aliens couldn't pay their smuggling fees. They torch them. They call relatives up. They said, you owe us $10,000. Well, no, we said it was $5,000. Well, now it's 10. Either pay it or we'll kill them. And they would. Those relatives, they call up on the phone, they torture the guy where a relative listened. Geez. One brave lady came, she actually contacted ICE and said they're holding, I think it was her brother demanding all this money. I can't afford to pay him. They said they're going to kill him. Luckily we did what we do with phones able to go to that place. And that guy was hogtied, hands and feet behind him with duct tape. His whole head and face were duct tape except a hole Poked in his mouth so he can breathe. That's the way we found him. So these cartels are ruthless. So for four years, I woke up, I knew that this was going to happen every day now. And because this administration chose to open that border up.

[Sean Casey]

Why do you think they opened the border up?

[Tom Holman]

I get asked that all the time. I think there's some people that thought just don't believe in borders. They think we should have open borders. But I actually think they saw future political benefit, obviously, because when President Biden signed over 90 executive orders destroying everything that President Trump did, in Trump 45, he also overturned the Trump census rule, which means the millions of people they release in the United States, they'll be counting the next census. Most of sanctuary cities, which means what? When they proportionate seats in House means more seats in House for the Demps. And also I think they're future Democratic voters. Because here's the long game they're playing. No one talks about this. Here's the long game they're playing. They're playing the long game. They're smart at it, overwhelm the system. Let's bring 10.5 million encounters to the border, release them without proper vetting, because all they care about is the optics. If there's no overcrowding, there's nothing to see. If there's no overcrowding, we can say the border secure, which they did. Border patrol agents were ordered, processed quickly, released quickly, because if there's no overcrowding, there's nothing to see here. So of course they weren't vetted properly, didn't have time to vet them properly. Why did they release millions of people into the United States rather than putting them in an empty ice bed, an ice bed owned by ICE, contracted by ICE at $127 a night. Why did it not fill that bed, but they'd rather release them to an NGO, get put in a hotel room at 500 bucks a night, get three free meals a day, get free medical care and get. Not only that, they get flown to the city. Their choice. They say where they want to go. We flew them there. Biden administration, put them in a hotel room, 500 bucks a night, give them three meals a day, free medical care. Why did they do that instead of putting them in the ICE facility at $127 a night? Because they knew exactly what they're doing. They know if they go into ICE detention, they get a hearing within 40 days. Based on real data from immigration court, nearly nine out of 10 people who claim asylum will get ordered Removed because they don't qualify for asylum. They get removed. That's not what they wanted. Overwhelm the system because once you're out of the system, you got the detained docket. Immigration court prioritizes the detained docket. But once you release them now, they're on the non detained docket. Sit in the hotel room. Hearing is going to take 3, 5, 7 years depending on what location you're at. If you want to exhaust all your appeals, maybe nine years. They overwhelmed the system because they knew it was going to take years to get these people through the process. And what happens then? They're hoping for a democratic administration now you can warrant amnesty. They're playing the long game. They overrun the system on purpose. They did not detain them on purpose.

[Sean Casey]

I mean, not only that. I mean, I don't know how true this is. I don't really believe anything in the media these days. But I read something maybe a year ago or so about this BCP1, I think it's called the BCP1 app, where they could go on claim asylum and then the USG will send a plane down to get them and fly them into the country. Is that true? Was that happening?

[Tom Holman]

What the Biden administration did towards the end? They knew that immigration was a big issue in the election, right? So they tried to claim that border numbers are way down. Boy, did we fix this problem. It's down 70%. No, it wasn't. They created two programs out of thin air. Called them Legal Pathways. They weren't legal pathways. The border numbers didn't really go down. They went down maybe 17% if you count all the programs they created. So what they did was, okay, we got millions of people coming across the border illegally. So let's create the CBP1 app. That same illegal alien population can simply go to an app, make an appointment, come to a port of entry. They're going to call that illegal entry now, same population of the illegal they're just bringing to the port of entry. Well, this is a legal pathway. Thousands of people come to the port of entry. Then they created the chnb. Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua, Venezuela. If you're from those four countries, we're going to fly you straight into our airports. You don't even have to go to the border. We'll fly you straight into our major airports in the United States. 30,000amonth of those.

[Sean Casey]

30,000Amonth. Is this the shit that I saw at the. I would be at the airport, you know, traveling, going wherever, and I would see these people get rushed up to the front of the line. And there are always some type of. That's what that was most likely.

[Tom Holman]

So they created CHNV. They created a CBP1 app bringing thousands of people of what they call legal pathways. So if you add what they did through the CHNV in the CBP1 app plus what the Borgtar is still catching. The border numbers didn't go down that much. They lied to the American people. They kept saying the border secure, look at the numbers down. You just created two buckets that you call legal pathways. The border numbers aren't down. So they lied to American people. They lied about the secure border. They lied that it's going to take congressional action to fix the border. It only took a new president. And so again they wake up every day of four years pissed off. I think the first morning I woke up not pissed off was the morning after election. I was in Florida, Donna the event and Mar a Lago when the election came in. And the next morning I woke up and I said all right, things are about to change. Lives are about to be saved. So that that's probably the first day I woke up knowing that things are going to change. But for four years I knew because all my time I spent on that border, I knew what was happening every night. I knew when I laid my head in that pillow every night a child was going to die. Women are being raped, cartels are moving record amounts of drugs in this country. Sex trafficking is going to skyrocket. And it did every night. I later knew what was happening. Maybe it's you know, all the years I spent down there. I take that personal because of the tragedies I've seen. I don't want to see stuff ever happen again.

[Host]

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[Sean Casey]

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[Host]

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[Sean Casey]

Damn. How did you get approached to take borders are.

[Tom Holman]

Let me go. The first time I worked for President Trump. True story. I was the third in command, executive associate director for ERO enforcement mobile operations. And the time I spent there we removed, I don't know, Overman illegal aliens when I was there in that position for three years. After eight years in Barack Obama, it was Hillary Clinton versus President Trump. I was convinced Hillary's going to win, convinced I think most America was because he was so far behind the polls. So before the election, announced my retirement. So I've had it after eight years Obama, I'm not spending four years, I'm not going to do it. So I got to sign a contract with this company, paid me three times as much as I made for ICE Guy. So I signed the contract to announce my retirement. I gave him 120 days. I will leave in January right after the inauguration. Well, my retirement party anyway, back up. So the election happened. So the next morning I wake up, I remember my wife saying, trump won. Now what are you going to do? Well, I already announced my retirement, already signed his contract, so I gotta go. I already got these things lined up. So at my retirement party, a lot of people show up. Saddest day of my life, January 2017. Because after over three decades doing the job, that was my last day. And when you carry a badging gun, you do this job for so long, it becomes a big part of who you are. And I knew that day I was going to leave that building. And I'm Tom, homeless civilian for the first time in 34 years. So at the end of the retirement ceremony, I was shaking hands with my wife and I get an emergency phone call from John Kelly, who was the secretary of Homeland Security. So I took the phone call with John Kelly and he says, tom, I know this is bad timing, but the president, the president, like you stay and run the agency, which is going to be a two step promotion. I said, sir, it's bad timing. I just retired. He goes, no, you didn't. Paperwork's on my desk, hasn't been signed. So I said, well sir, all due respect, my family's been through an awful lot. Multiple moves, death threats, protests at my home. I says, I gotta talk to my family about this. Plus I signed a contract with this Company. I don't know what my legal obligations are on that. This is a Friday. I said, can I have till Monday to think about this? He goes, certainly. I remember what he said before I hung up. He goes, let me leave you with this thought, Tom. And I remember this word for it. He goes, tom, the President of the United States is asking you, a career law enforcement officer, to serve your country a little bit longer. He needs your help, Tom. I'll call you Monday, 0600. So on the way home, my wife asked me, what was the phone call about? And I told her. She looks at me, she goes, hell, no. Not doing it. We've been through too much. I said, but it's President of the United States. I don't care. Been through too much. So after a weekend of fighting, Sunday night, we were laying in bed. She asked, what are you going to do? I said, what do you think I'm going to do? She goes, you're going to do that, aren't you? Of course. President of the United States. They asked me to help. I won't stay. And God love her, she said, okay, I'll support you on it. So the next day, he called me up and said, what say you? I said, let's do it. So the next day, I show up at the ICE office to the amazement with hundreds of people who gave me great gifts. Friday thought I was leaving. The first people I ran into in my office were ethics attorneys who had a list of all the gifts I got. Said, you got to return all these gifts because these are all the employees. Now, again, I remember saying, there's a $500 gift certificate your wife got. We need that back. I said, look, guys, she's already pissed. I said, let me write you a check for the $500. I'm not going to ask for any gifts back. So they took all the gifts back, which is cool. The next day, I'm on Air Force One. The President, that's the first time I ever met the man. Wow. I asked him, what's my march? He says, do your job that you haven't been able to do for the last four years. Now he wants you to do it. Go enforce law. So fast forward a second time. I'm actually out to dinner with my wife, and my cell phone was sitting on the table, and we were eating. All of a sudden, phone goes off. And she called it right away. POTUS came up, call id. She goes, oh, my God. Because what's he want? So I excused myself, went outside, and President Trump, he made it, you know, he's. He asked me to come back, but done, back fast. Done. I woke up four years pissed off. He might say, you've been. You've been bitching about it for four years. Want to come back, fix it. I said, damn right I do. So I took it, came back and sat down over and says, did you? Yeah. She goes, good, because you've been pissed off every day. If you don't go back, you're going to be pissed off next four years and then go back and fix it. So. And God bless you. It's a hell of a pay cut. But I wake up every day like a kid in the candy store because I think President Trump's the greatest president of my lifetime as a border guy, an immigration guy. Trump, 45, unprecedented success. The most secure border we've ever had in my lifetime. Now the number's even better as we're talking right now. We got the most secure border in the history of this nation. President Trump did in seven weeks what Joe Biden couldn't and wouldn't do in four years. Wow. And I got a great team I work with every day. You know, I know you mentioned earlier I got the man of Year award and Border Hero Award, but you need to know at both of those, acceptance. I accept it in the honor of President Trump. He should be the man of the Year, because without him, we couldn't be doing what we're doing right now on the border. And I also took it in honor of the men and women of the Border Patrol and ice. We strap a gun to a hip every day, defend that border, hang out the rest of the worst. The worst. I'm just a guy at the White House coming up with strategies and policies and putting out the way I think things should be done. It's the men and women carrying a badge and gun who deserve that award. So I took it in their honor. And President Trump, I mean, again, the game changer. I work with a team. Steve Miller, the architect. Steve Miller is probably the most brilliant man I've ever met. Like him. I love him. The guy smarter than hell. I work with a team. And look at President Trump brought in because there's all of government on the border. All of government. We got dod, got doj, right? You got Pete Hexseth, you got Pam Bondi, you got Cash Patel, you got Secretary Nolan. You bring that weight onto this issue, and that's why the success is the way it is, because you got one hell of a team. That's the dream team, man.

[Sean Casey]

You guys locked it down quick.

[Tom Holman]

From my understanding and interior arrest, you know, we've arrested about three times more criminals in a few months than Joe Biden did in a year. But people always ask me if I'm happy with the numbers. I'm not happy. I'm happy that we got more, hell of a lot more than Biden did. But we need to get much more, a lot more, because we know it's like 700,000 illegal aliens with criminal convictions or criminal charges walking the streets of this country. We got to get them. So we got a lot more work to do. Doing good, but it's not good enough yet.

[Sean Casey]

We'll get into all that. I want to talk about some of the stuff that has been coming through the border and how that happens and the motivation behind it and all the stuff that the cartels are in, which is more of your. I think it's more of your previous life when you were a special agent. So when you talk about these little girls getting raped coming across and little boys dying and they're getting locked in these Conex boxes with no air and 100 degree plus weather, I mean, where does this all initiate from? And what countries are using cartels to funnel them in?

[Tom Holman]

Border patrol people under Joe Biden arrested people from 180 different countries. That's almost every country in the world. The whole world came to this country because they knew you could cross the border, get released within 24 hours, get a free plane ride to the city of your choice, get a free hotel room, three meals a day, free medical care. Actually, I think it was 181 different countries.

[Sean Casey]

Are the cartels facilitating all of this?

[Tom Holman]

Oh, absolutely. Criminal cartels like the Jalisco cartels, the new generation. Some of these cartels are in 45 countries around the world.

[Sean Casey]

They're in 45 countries.

[Tom Holman]

Some of these criminal cartels, absolutely. So, like the Chinese, record number of Chinese came across. There's no way tens of thousand Chinese nationals left China and got to the United States without the coordination of a Chinese government. It doesn't happen. Chinese organized crime, same with Venezuela. But once you get to Mexico, the criminal cartels, they have operation. They had operational control of the southern border. No one's crossing the southern border of the United States without paying the criminal cartels or plaza fees at a minimum, because you go through their area of operation, you either pay their fees or they'll kill you. So they had operational control of the southern border. Matter of fact, under Biden, I talked to numerous border patrol chiefs who would tell you that we no longer have operational control of the southern border. Criminal cartels do. They decide what's coming across, when it's coming across, where it's coming across. But there was the one chief patrol agent who used the term me. Broke an arrow. Dude, that's pretty. That's over the top. He goes, no, listen, I may be catching 10% what's coming across that border. He goes, I am overwhelmed. Groups are coming across every day that I can't go. The 2.2 million got aways under Joe Biden. 2.2 million known gotaways. These are people captured on video. Drone traffic, central traffic, or through foot traffic that Borbjo counted that they couldn't respond to because they're too busy changing diapers, making baby formula, making hospital runs, making airport runs, dealing with that humanitarian crisis. 2.2 that we know about. Now, there's areas of the border like Big Bend sector, very mountainous region. 500 people go through that area a day. You wouldn't even know about it because we didn't have the technology there. But 2.2 million people crossed our southern border, weren't apprehended because Borbato's so busy dealing with this humanitarian crisis. Who are they? Now? I mentioned earlier they arrested 400 people on the no fly list terrorist watch list, came across the border. You and I both know terrorists are training to evade law enforcement. So who are these 2.2. Why did 2.2 million people pay more to get away? Because we already talked about. You pay two amounts of money to the cartel. You pay one amount of money to get to the border. You see a green uniform, turn yourself in, claim a sl cartel's job ends at the border. But if you want to get away, if you want to get to New York without being processed or vetted or fingerprinted, you pay a lot more. So why did 2.2 million people pay more? Not to get a free airline ticket, not to get a free hotel room, not to get free meals, not to get free medical care, and not to get work authorization. Why did 2.2 million people pay more not to take advantage of that giveaway program? Because they don't want to be vetted. They want to be fingerprinted. That scares the hell out of me. It scared the hell out of everybody.

[Sean Casey]

2.2 million.

[Tom Holman]

Yes.

[Sean Casey]

How does it work? How does it work? If China is trying to get people smuggled into the country, or Al Qaeda.

[Tom Holman]

Or Taliban or Al Shabaab, there's so many smuggler routes we can't cover. Them all right, so I guess what.

[Sean Casey]

I'm asking is how do they get in touch with the cartels?

[Tom Holman]

Cartels are. They got their tentacles reaching to many major nations. It's like Mexico. Chinese. They deal with Chinese organized crime, who has connection to criminal cartels in Mexico or Central America. There's so many routes. You know, some routes come through Canada, not. Not many, but there are a few that come to Canada. Most come through the southern border because you got over 2,000 border there, you know, you just can't control it all. Some come up through the Darien Gap. Some fly into Mexican Mexico City of the airport, depending. You know, a lot of Chinese fly straight into Mexico. It depends where you're coming from, what cartel you're dealing with. There's so many different routes. Colombia, I mean, there's South America. Some make a maritime trip to South America, come up through the Darien Gap. Some fly straight into Mexico. There's just so many routes. And that's one of the toughest job out, securing the border. It's better almost to play the away game, to attack the cartels down south rather than to get to the border. And we've done that very well. I mean, Darien Gap, thousands of people crossed the Darien Gap. The Biden administration said they're going to shut it down. They never did.

[Sean Casey]

Is it shutting down now?

[Tom Holman]

It's not shutting down, but the traffic's going south. Traffic on Daring Gap is southbound now.

[Sean Casey]

So human smuggling is a major financial component to the cartels?

[Tom Holman]

Oh, yeah. That's why I saw the cartels in Mexico the last few years. There's a battle going on in Mexico. Cartels are fighting one another because they made record amounts of money, not only in drug smuggling, but trafficking on women and children for forced labor or sex trafficking, smuggling of aliens. They're making more money than ever made. So cartels started fighting each other for control of the plaza. Who owns this plaza? Trying because there's so much money being made. And that's one of the things I said from the beginning, that President Trump will end up wiping the cartels off the face of the earth. And that's why I think he designated terrorist organizations, because they've killed more Americans than every terrorist organization in the world combined through the drugs and what the cartels have done. So now that we designate them terrorist organizations, and now that we shut down the pipeline at a 96% rate, we're hitting them where it hurts in the pocketbook, I think. I hope I'm wrong, but I think you'll see the violence escalating. Southern borders are not going to go away. They're going to try to get their product through. And now we got DOD on the border along with border patrol agents. I feel it's a matter of time before there's an armed encounter of some kind.

[Sean Casey]

How does the sex trafficking work? That's just a big topic. That is what I go to sleep thinking about all the time. And I've covered it some.

[Tom Holman]

Sex trafficking is a lot of it. You know, you pay your smuggling fee, you owe the smuggling group, let's say you owe them $10,000. You don't have the money. Okay, well, you work for us. When you get northbound, there's various ways to do it. That's. This is one of the ways to get northbound. Okay, here's what you're going to do it pays back or you're not going to do it. Okay, well, we know where your family is. We'll kill your family. We'll kill you. So a lot more force in the sex slavery. Of course, children are just sold into it. They don't have a choice here in the States. Absolutely, absolutely.

[Sean Casey]

What does that look like?

[Tom Holman]

ISIS already found children working on ranches and in factories. Enforced labor. I mean, we're attacking trafficking really hard. The sad thing is that we're one of the biggest customers of it in the United States. Either sex trafficking or forced labor trafficking. And some of the forced labor trafficking, they're never going to pay the fee off. When I was head of the office in Dallas, some of the Asian massage parlors that we investigate, their passports are being kept from these women. They couldn't leave. They were locked in the facility forcing the prostitution to pay off smuggling fees, which they'll never pay off. So a lot of the trafficking, forced labor and sex trafficking, the alien doesn't even know what they're getting into to get here. Were forced into it. Pay off the cartels. Like I say, these cartels are ruthless. They know where your family is. They'll threaten your family. One of the most despicable things about losing control of the borders is the trafficking issue. Under Joe Biden, it's estimated half a million children were trafficking in this country, smuggled in this country. They release the so called sponsors. Sometimes it's family, many times it's not. Again, go back. Secretary of hhs, Becerra. I saw him give a speech on stage. How quick they're releasing these people. We're releasing these people quickly. Of course you are, because all you care is about the optics of no overcrowding, not a problem here. But they released so quickly, proper vetting wasn't done. So you heard the Media reports, like 300,000 children that the Biden administration couldn't account for when they called them for check. Ins weren't there when they tried to contact them. Couldn't contact them. So Trump administration, we are actively looking to try to find these kids. We already found some, but already found some in forced labor. And. But it's difficult. I have all things, when President Trump hired me, says, I want you secure the border, run a deportation operation and find these kids. Border's pretty secure right now. Most secure we ever had. Numbers are doing pretty good on deportation. But again, I gotta do more, a lot more. The kids are the toughest part. Cause you get trying to find children, and it's difficult to find children because you and I, we have a footprint. We have a digital footprint. You own a home, you own a car, you got pay bills, you got a credit card. We can find you. We can find me. Kids don't have that digital footprint. So we got to count on a digital footprint. Whatever sponsor they released them to, and through the whistleblowers, hhs, many of these sponsors weren't fingerprinted. Identification wasn't verified. They didn't do DNA testing. So now we got to try to find kids who release the sponsors that don't want to be found. Some of these sponsors have already sold the kid off somebody else. So this is the most out of three things, three rails I'm involved in. This is the most difficult one.

[Sean Casey]

How does it work? How are they selling kids? What's that marketplace? Where is it? Is it online?

[Tom Holman]

You gotta be part of the inner circle. But a lot of it's through the dark web, a lot of it's through the Internet. I mean, not only for trafficking, you get a job driving a load of alien aliens from the border. On the Internet, they're using all sorts. They're using apps to do that, whether it's Instagram or many of these. During the Biden administration, they were hiring college kids and high school kids to drive loads through an app. Social media. Social media is a big tool used in all of this.

[Sean Casey]

Are Americans the end consumer of this?

[Tom Holman]

Many times we've done investigations where illegal alien population sometimes are the customers. But a lot of it's Americans, and it's sad that this country is a customer for that type of activity. Yeah, I remember when I was 20 years ago, I was teaching a human trafficking course at the FBI Academy over in Budapest. Teaching the Eastern European countries, you know, how to look at human trafficking. So I'm giving this course and one of the members in the audience, a border guard, because there's like several languages being spoken. We had interpreters in there. He raised his hand, asked me a question and it's a true story. He says, how come you're here teaching about human trafficking when the United States is the biggest consumer of it? If you weren't the biggest consumer, he wouldn't need to be here training us, man.

[Sean Casey]

Well, Tom, let's take a quick break, come back. I want to get into some terrorism stuff.

[Host]

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[Sean Casey]

All right, Tom, we're back from the break. We just kind of covered human trafficking. I wanted to, you know, a big topic that we cover here is terrorism. And just from my former background, and we've had former CIA targeter Sarah Adams come on here to talk a lot about.

[Host]

Who'S here.

[Sean Casey]

She says there's at least 1,000 different terrorists that have infiltrated the border. I was just wondering what kind of insight do you have on that?

[Tom Holman]

Well, we really don't know. I mean, the intelligence community has one number. Again, I go back to over 2 million got aways on the Joe Biden. 2 million people crossed the border and weren't vetted, weren't fingerprinted. And like I said earlier, criminal cartels in Mexico control the border. You don't cross the border without paying them off or working through them. So why did 2 million people pay more to get away? That scares the hell out of me. If you look at the numbers under Trump, 45, I think we arrested in four years, we arrested a total of 13 people on terrorist watch list. 13 Biden administration they were getting more than 13 a day some days. So on top of terrorist organizations. But now, as you know, President Trump just declared Ms. 13 and TDA to Iowa, Venezuela, terrorist organizations. And I pushed for the criminal cartels to be designated terrorists. Again, wasn't my decision, but I've been talking about this for years. President Trump did it. I think it's the right thing to do. A lot of people say, well, how do you consider them terrorists? Ms. 13 in Trandawa and the criminal cartels of Mexico because they've killed more Americans than any terrorist organization I know of by the thousands. Not only that, you know, these cartels in Mexico, they've killed thousands of journalists, prosecutors, judges. I mean, they run Mexico. Anybody thinks anything different, you just, you're wrong. The criminal cartels in Mexico control that country. They did have operational control of their border and we took it away from them.

[Sean Casey]

Do you have insight into the motivations that are happening not just with cartel terrorism, but more traditional terrorism, like stuff coming out of Al Qaeda, isis, Taliban, all of these different Al Shabaab, all these different, I don't know what to call them. We'll just say more traditional type terrorists.

[Tom Holman]

They want to destroy this country. I mean, I'm not a terrorism expert, but I read enough intelligence reports. We know they're here. I said for a long time it doesn't matter. When I think it's. If that's my opinion, I think a lot of people agree with me. Two million gotaways. If we arrested 400 trying to get in, no one's going to convince me that not a single one of those two main gotaways didn't come here to do us harm. We were already, we were already shut down. Was an A from Tajikistan not too long ago that were planning an inside attack. Luckily the intelligence community got some chatter on that. We're able to shut it down. We got a lot of unanswered questions from the Biden administration. How about the two that entered through Quantico Marine Base? That has never been fully, you know, opened up to the American people. What exactly that was. Don't hear anything about it. I'm looking into it now. But do I think there's terrorists that cross during the Biden administration that's in this country right now? Absolutely. I'd be a fool to say I didn't think so.

[Sean Casey]

Do you know how they're setting up at all in the country?

[Tom Holman]

I do not know. I can just tell you when it comes to Chinese record amounts of Chinese nationals across the border. I've been around since 1984. These numbers exploded under Biden and I know there's no way tens of thousands of Chinese nationals came from China to the United States. No way they came or the cooperation of the Chinese government. Chinese organized crime just don't happen. Well, I think we all can agree to that. And what scares me more is why are they here? That scares me. We know they're already setting up places outside of military bases. We have the spy balloon, corporate espionage and the vast majority. It wasn't like family groups coming across. These were many of them. Most of them were military aged males. Which again is it real serious national security concern. Why are they here? I think you know, it's being investigated. We're looking into it and hopefully we'll get some. You know, I'm sure things are being done in intelligence community that I'm not involved in right now. But deep national security concern. I've said it many times, this open border was probably the biggest national security vulnerability this nation's ever seen because we don't know who came across. And that over 2 million that known got away and we're not even talking about the unknown gotaways, places like Big Bend sector where we don't have technology. How many people cross there that we don't know about. How many people came maritime, they got away. How many people came through Canada? Because our resources on Canada under Joe Biden, we have very few resources on the Canadian border anyways, Right? But half of the border collisions on the Canadian border were detailed to the southern border to deal with that mess. And the half that remained on the Canadian border, most of them were sitting at a computer processing southern border apprehensions virtually. So there's practically no lake patrol, river patrol, road patrol on the northern border. So God help what came through the Canadian border. We don't know about what other type.

[Sean Casey]

Of bad actors are coming. I mean we got human smuggling, sex trafficking, we've got drugs, we've got regular cartel members who are embedding themselves into the US Local, US governments. We have Chinese which are conducting all kinds of corporate and defense espionage, setting up these huge bitcoin scam camps. They're spying on our bases. I mean one of them was even producing power for a major military base in Texas. And then what else do we have? And then we have, we have record.

[Tom Holman]

Number Russian citizens of Russia.

[Sean Casey]

I didn't think about that.

[Tom Holman]

You know, a lot of these countries are special interest countries. We had record number of people from those countries coming across. Not to mention the gangs. You know, Trend, Iowa and Ms. 13. A lot of gang members come to. You know, I remember during the Obama administration where these family groups are coming across. We knew that some of the members, these families weren't families, they were actually gang members. Administration took no action on it. Einkteller and the president dropped 45 his first four years. We did Operation Matador up in Long Island, New York. We arrested just short of 500 gang members. Most of them is 13. When we dig into the files, you know that 42% of them enter the country as a family member or uac. So they'll infiltrate, they'll come in as a stage family member. They're not, they'll come in as UAC because UACs, you know, up to 17, which UAC on a couple alien child, the children come across. But vast majority of UACs are 14 and 17. A lot of these are gang members posing. They could be 19, 20 posed on a 17 year old. That happened a lot. Now it's not happening because the border shut down. But when we went and did this operation, 42% of these entered as a child of a family Group, supposed family group that weren't. Or uac. Unaccompanied alien child. They weren't a child at all. They were an adult posed as a child. But under Trump 45, we attacked it because we did DNA tests and make sure that family is actually a family. Biden administration stopped that. And that's why I think you saw a skyrocketing once they dropped once they didn't vet the entire family to sponsors. Under Trump, we'd vet the entire family, just not the sponsor. Anybody lived in that household we vet. When Biden came and shut those rules down. No more vetting of the people in the household. No more DNA testing. Chalice running skyrockets. We don't know who a child with a parent or not with a parent. And that's why we got 300,000 missing ones now. So they relax the rules again. Process quick, release quick, less rules, faster the process goes. All they care about is the optics. And I guarantee there's children right now in this country by the thousands who wake up every day living a life of hell because you're living with a sponsor that's abusing them.

[Sean Casey]

Jeez. When these entities come across, Chinese traditional terrorists, cartel gangs, Russians, are they. Were they grouped into. Would it be a caravan or a smuggling operation of just that entity? Just Chinese, just Russian, just al Qaeda, just MS.30 blended.

[Tom Holman]

They usually blended with another group. Sometimes you got solely Chinese come across as a group. But many times we're blended. The scariest thing about these countries, though, these unfriendly countries, in my opinion, is when Secretary Mallorca sits there and says, these people we released revenge, they weren't vetted. You can call it vetting, but we know the vetting was a joke. We don't have. You think the Chinese government is going to give us national security information or any information on these nationals coming across?

[Sean Casey]

No.

[Tom Holman]

Russia, Turkey, Syria. You think any of these countries are going to share? No, of course not. And as far as coming to criminal data, we don't have access to other countries criminal data. You think El Salvador was in Honduras and Guatemala. I don't even know if they have an NCIC database like we got. They weren't properly vetted. When they stood on the set of people were vetted, what it usually meant was they're vetted through NCIC and III state systems there. So unless they had a criminal history here, you know that was most vetting was done. Some they'll vet through terrorist screening database. But you and I both know most terrorists in this world aren't in any database. Yeah, unless they were part of a T3 investigation or encountered on a battlefield or. You know, there's a lot of terrorists in this world. They're not in any database. So when they say they vetted these people, they vetted them through a weak system.

[Sean Casey]

Well, on top of that, I mean, we actually, we did have a lot of. I mean, not with new ones, but we had a lot of intelligence. We used to use this thing called the Hyde system. You know, when I was working over there, they would take a retina map or whatever and. But when we withdrew from Afghanistan the way we did, we gave all of that up, everything.

[Tom Holman]

And that proves what the vetting was, right? They said they vetted all the Afghanistan they brought over here. DOD I. G. Inspector general said they weren't properly vetted. So this administration lied about all the vetting procedures.

[Sean Casey]

How about the tunnels?

[Tom Holman]

Tunnels are big. In California, we're starting to see some now in Arizona, we got some pretty good tunnel technology. But the more we find, the more they dig. But this administration upping, we got a lot of really smart companies, cutting edge companies are coming to the table with tunnel technology. Some are pretty sophisticated.

[Sean Casey]

How do those work?

[Tom Holman]

Simple. They'll dig the tunnel down in Mexico, and it comes up usually now, inside of a building, less attention. They'll come upside of like a corporate plaza. They'll come up inside of a warehouse or a building. There's some. I don't want to discuss the technology. I don't want to show our hand. But there's a lot of latest technology to help us find those tunnels. But we're finding many. But there's some. We. You know, again, as we shut down a tunnel, none of it is being dug. So it's a cat and mouse game on. The tunnels, we shut down a lot of them. Some are very sophisticated. They're lighted and air conditioned. You know, you can take carts through there. Some of you got to crawl through. We just. They're using the drainage pipes in El Paso. They'll just go through a city drainage area. They use some of that sometimes, but we got that pretty much under control. But tunnel digging is increasing just because the border's locked down. So again, the cartels aren't going to go away. They're going to think of another reason, another method of getting the United States. That's why maritime. We're seeing a maritime increase now. A lot more taken to the Pacific or the Atlantic, through the Caribbean or over San Diego. Some are taking bongo boats as far north as Laguna Niguel, President Trump's got Navy ships out there patrolling now. We got increased Coast Guard patrols and border patrols also got. Maritime is increasing. So we're trying. We adapt. As the cartels move their method of operation, we adapt pretty quickly.

[Sean Casey]

Who are some of the. Have there been any key players that you've caught, like cartel leaders, ISIS leaders, terrorist leaders, sex trafficking leaders? Have you caught any? We'll just call it kingpins.

[Tom Holman]

Quite a few. We got quite a few of Ms. 13, TDA leadership. FBI's taking, as you know, some significant terrorist leaders out. But when it comes to what I'm doing on immigration enforcement, we have taken out major command and control of TDA and MS.13, but I won't be happy to. Every single one of them has been removed from this country. But we've hurt tda. TDA is on the run. There's still some areas we need to attack. Problem is they got a foothold in sanctuary cities. Sanctuary cities is hard because local law enforcement cannot work with us because of sanctuary city laws. So it's kind of like a cat and mouse game over there too. I mean, New York City, you know, TDA and MS.13 both have a huge presence there. We just did an operation with NYPD a month ago, I think three weeks ago, as over doing press conference, we indicted 27 members of TDA. Huge public safety win. New York City became that much safer. But they're a sanctuary city. Well, I think we showed during that operation, if they'd work with us, look at the great impact we'll have on public safety. And now, you know, you got the city council over there suing the mayor for working with us. The mayor wants to get us back into Rikers island to arrest a bad guy. And it's the right thing to do. Let us arrest a public safety threat in the safety and security of a jail. Because you release them, it puts the community at risk, puts our officer at risk. And now we gotta go find him on his turf, where he has access, who knows what weapons, right? So even though we show great success, what we can do together in New York City, right away, city council sues. Trying to prevent that type of cooperation, man, it's ridiculous. Sanctuary cities now. Sanctuary cities under Biden exploded. They did nothing about it. President Trump's taking action. Pam, Bonnie starting to file lawsuits against sanctuary cities. I'm working with Secretary Noem. We're adding more resources, sanctuary cities, because that's where the problem is. They're knowingly releasing public safety threats back in the community. You know, I. You know, I got. I got attacked by the left for making a speech at the. At one speech, but I was going to go Boston, bring hell with me. So how dare he threaten Boston? I wasn't threatening Boston. I was threatening the criminal illegal aliens in Boston that raped children. Before I gave that speech, I looked into a list of people we arrested over the past few months. I stopped at nine illegal aliens that raped children. And they'd rather release them back to the street than call us once they get out of jail. So you're damn right I said I was going to bring hell. I'll bring hell to every illegal alien that commits a crime against a child over there. And we did. I went over there. I think in a matter of two days, we arrested several child predators, arrested numerous TDA members. Chicago, same thing. Chicago mayor said I wasn't welcome in Chicago. Chicago's first place I went after inauguration because I was told I wasn't welcome there the very first place I went. And the first day we were there, we arrested two illegal aliens that had a murder conviction, arrested TDA members, arrested child sex predators. One day in Chicago. That city was that much safer where they still refused to work with us. So I've said sanctuary city is going to get exactly what they don't want. More agents in the communities and more collateral arrests. Because right now the media's beating us up. Oh, you say you're going to concentrate on public safety threats, national security threats. Well, a lot of the people you're arresting aren't criminals. Okay, where are they being arrested? They're being arrested in a sanctuary city. Why? Because you forced me into the community. If you let me into jail, one agent can arrest one bad guy in the safety and security of jail. Would you rather release that public safety threat back in the public, which puts the public at harm, puts the agent at harm, puts an alien at harm? Because anything can happen on the street or us. Led me to jail, but when you force me in the community, we're going to go to community and we're going to find that person. And when we find him, he's probably with others. Others may not be a criminal target, but in the country illegally, ISIS is going to do the job and arrest that collateral.

[Sean Casey]

How do these sanctuary cities work? I mean, how are they harboring illegal immigration? How are they helping?

[Tom Holman]

Well, thanks. My definition, sanctuary city don't give us access to jail. They were honorary detainers. So they would rather release illegal alien public safety threat back in the community. Here's the Justification? Well, we're a welcoming community, we're a sanctuary city because we want victims and witnesses of crime, if they're in the country legally, victims and witnesses of crime, to feel comfortable coming and reporting that crime without fear that we're working with ice. That's bullshit. We all know that we don't want to talk to the victim of a witness. We want to talk to the guy that you locked in a jail cell. That's what we want to talk to. And I'm sure the victim and witness of a crime don't want the bad guy back out there either to take revenge on the victim. Witness of crime, give us the bad guy. Because I think if you went to immigrant community and asked him one question, would you rather have ICE operating in the jail or your community? They don't say the jail because the immigrant community, even the illegal immigrant community, even though they're in the country illegally, many of them once a year are pretty law abiding. They're family people. They care about their families too. They don't want a predator in their neighborhood either. They don't want someone arrested for DUI 10 times in our neighborhood either. So let us in the jail. You're the one that locked the guy in the jail cell apparently because he's a public safety threat. Why are you locking him up? Give us access to that person. When you're done with them, give them to us. Stop telling the story that your sanctuary city could try and protect the victims and witnesses of crime to come forward. The only reason they're going to be afraid is because of the message that lets us sending out, that we're out there tearing up families and raiding neighborhoods. We don't raid neighborhoods, we don't sweep neighborhoods. Everybody we arrest is a target enforcement operation. When we go out on the streets, we know exactly who we're looking for. We're most likely we will find them. We have the full immigration history, full criminal history. Many times we know who's in the house, if there's children in the house. These officers spend a lot of time planning these operations. It's not a sweep. We don't go through neighborhood looking for people different than us. It's targeted enforcement operation. But the left keeps lying to the American people saying we're sweeping neighborhoods, we're tearing families apart. We're out there, you know, just, you know, racial profiling. It's ridiculous.

[Sean Casey]

So this is very intel driven.

[Tom Holman]

Absolutely. Every person will go arrest. There's a few job sheets done on them that's be signed up by a supervisor. Now the left's out there saying, well, now we're raiding schools and churches and hospitals because we did away with a sensitive location policy. We did away the sensitive location policy for companies. Number one, we're the only law enforcement agency that had such a policy. FBI don't have that policy. DEA don't have that policy. Atf, none of these federal agencies have a policy where you can't arrest somebody on a school grounds or a hospital or someplace else. And why did we do away with it? Because there is no sanctuary under President Trump. There is no sanctuary for criminal aliens, public safety threats, or national security threats in this country. It doesn't mean we're going to raid a school. But if we have an MS.13 gang member that's a senior at this high school over here, and we've been looking for him, we can't find him. But all of a sudden we know that he's attending class here right now. Significant public safety threat. We're going to go arrest that guy with the assistance of the local authorities. Doesn't mean we're sweeping the school. Means we're taking one bad guy out. And more than likely we're going to wait for him to leave class. But the left takes it. Oh, they're going to sweep schools, they're going to sweep hospitals, they're going to sweep, you know, churches. It's ridiculous. But if there's a national security threat, attending mass right now that we've been looking for, we know he's right now in a mass, we're going to arrest them. There's no sanctuary for public safety threats or national security threats in this country under President Trump. So that's why. But again, the media takes that. So now I'm reading stories about, you know, teachers, you know, elementary school teachers, you know, teaching their children and other school school board members and other teachers how to defy ice if they shelter your school. It's just a vilification, and we knew it was coming. The vilification of ice, vilification of Trump, vilification of me, which I. I don't care. I mean, I really don't care what people think about me because I know I'm doing the right thing. So you can hate on me all you want. Matter of fact, I get disappointed when I go an event there's not protesters. I'm a little disappointed. I actually like protesters. But the media is not being factual with American people, and that's very, very irritating. It's an insult because they're hiding the Truth. The media just a couple weeks ago said, we're deporting less people than Joe Biden. Yeah. Why? Because the border's shut down. The border's secure. A lot of Biden removals. They're counting ICE removals and border troll removals together. You had millions of people coming across every year. Right. And they did remove a certain percentage of them. We could remove 100% of people we encounter and Joe Biden could remove 5% of people. He can count. He's still going to beat us. The border was unsecure. He had 10.5 million people come across the border in 10 years. But if you look at ICE arrest, their true deportation number. ICE arrest. We're killing them on ICE deportation. But they won't say that they fudged the numbers on purpose. It looked like we're doing less and we're not. ISIS is arresting and deporting a lot more people. Under Joe Biden, you had 10.5 million people come to the border. Historic numbers. Every year. Four years. Every year is a historic number. He kept breaking his own record. Every year, same time you have historic illegal immigration. Southern border. ICE under Biden had the lowest numbers of removals arrests that they arrested, not Borbichok. Lowest number of arrests and removed by ICE in the history of the agency. At the same time, you had unprecedented crossing on the border. We've turned that around. We got the most secure border in the history of this country. Right now, ISIS arrests about three times more criminals than Biden ever thought. Arrest them.

[Sean Casey]

I mean, I remember.

[Tom Holman]

If you look at the numbers right now, Sean, an average day Jon Joe Biden, 1800 got aways that you and I talked about every day. 1800 the other day we had 38.

[Sean Casey]

1800 a day we had 38 the.

[Tom Holman]

Other day you look at the numbers, apprehensions a day, 10, 12,000 are buying many, many times. A few times got to 15. But let's just take 10, 12,000, because there are a lot of those days.

[Sean Casey]

That's almost 800,000 a year.

[Tom Holman]

Of course. Yeah.

[Sean Casey]

Under Biden.

[Tom Holman]

What was the got away number the other day? 41. 41 too many. I'll be happy when I 0. 1800 41. The number that impressed me the most is those they released into the country. So the first hundred days under Trump, nine people were released from the border. Under Trump, four of them were material witnesses. We wanted them here to testify in a serious criminal case. Four were extreme medical conditions. We had to take them to a hospital or they're going to die. You know, extreme medical conditions. We just can't deport somebody in a bad way, like, they just can't do it. Talk about being inhumane. And one was a discretionary release for humanitarian reasons. So out of those nine releases, one was really discretionary. Nine total, same time frame under Biden, 100 days, 184,000 people were released into the United States. That's what President Trump has done for this border. Again, most secure border in the history of this nation today.

[Sean Casey]

How are you, other than sending more agents, how are you dealing with these sanctuary cities? I mean, we saw a judge, was it Wisconsin that got arrested?

[Tom Holman]

Well, I said from day one, the sanctuary cities and the governors, the mayors and. And if you want to support sanctuary cities, if that's what you want to do, then go ahead. Just don't get in our way if you don't want. I would think every governor, every mayor, any city council person, their number one responsibility is protection of their communities. I've already been clear, and President Trump's been clear from day one. We're, we're prioritizing public safety threats and national security threats. They should be shoulder to shoulder with us on this, but their hatred for Trump, there's a poor to sanctuary cities and the politics. Putting politics over public safety means more to them. I wish they loved their communities more than they hate Trump. Because we can make a difference. Bible said from day one, you cannot support us, you can protest us, but if you cross the line, we'll seek prosecution. If you cross the line of impeding us, that's a felony. If you knowingly harbor and conceal an illegal alien from us, that's a felony. If you interfere, we're going to seek prosecution. And it's already happened to one judge, two judges.

[Host]

What were they doing?

[Tom Holman]

Amer was arrested just this past few days, New York and Newark, because he was trespassing. We're not going to tolerate it. We got Pam Bondi, powerful Attorney general right there. We got Cash Patel. I mean, we're simply not going to deal with it. You cannot support us. You can, you can call us all the names you want, protest all you want, but don't cross that line, because we're going to enforce the law. President Trump was elected by the American people overwhelmingly because of his stance on the border, securing the border, and run this deportation operation. That is what we're going to do. We're going to keep President Trump's promise to the American people that vote him in office for this reason. We're going to do it. So you can stand aside and watch, but don't get in our way and don't cross the line. But it does. It's sanctuary cities. We need more people. So what I've said sanctuary cities. We're going to flood the zone.

[Sean Casey]

How many sanctuary cities are there?

[Tom Holman]

Oh, I don't have 100.

[Sean Casey]

I mean, I just saw literally yesterday that the mayor of Nashville is now going to use taxpaying dollars to harbor illegal aliens.

[Tom Holman]

Well, you better not. Harboring and concealing illegal aliens, a felony. Eight, United States Code 1324. You know, in my career, I've arrested US citizens for harboring an alien in the workplace or their homes. Why are politicians any different?

[Sean Casey]

I shouldn't.

[Tom Holman]

We're going to enforce law because anybody across that line. But what sanctuary cities are going to get. We're going to flood the zone. If one agent can't arrest a bad guy in the jail, now I got to send a whole team, usually five or six guys to go arrest this person. Five or six agents to arrest this person, because who knows what weapons has access to arrest them at his turf. So if I can't arrest them in the jail, safety and security of a jail, which is safe for everybody, then I got to send a whole team in the neighborhood. If we can't arrest them at home, they'll arrest them at place of employment. So we're going to flood the zone with agents and communities. We're going to increase worksite enforcement operations tenfold. We're going to get them. So sanctuary city is going to get what they don't want. More agents in your communities, more collateral risk. Because when we find a bad guy, like I said before, we're going to arrest anybody we find while we're looking at that guy. If we find an illegal alien and exercise that operation, they're going to go, too. Because under the last administration, they told ice, immigration officers who took an oath to enforce immigration law. Mayorkas told ice, you can't arrest somebody for being here illegally. They had to be arrested for a serious crime, convicted of a serious crime before you can take action. They rewrote immigration law. Well, no, the statute's clear. We told ICE agents, you will uphold the oath you took. You will enforce the laws you took an oath to enforce. So if you find an illegal alien while you're looking for that bad guy, take him into custody. So again, sanctuary cities, everybody said, why are there so many collateral arrests? Because you forced me in the neighborhood. So we're going to flood the zone.

[Sean Casey]

What has been the response of border patrol Law enforcement. Ice. I mean, great question.

[Tom Holman]

Let me tell you something. The last four years, I've made a dozen trips to the border. I was a border patrol agent. So I go down there, just see what's going on. Most agents recognize me and they talk freely with me. They were miserable. They considered themselves uber drivers, tourist agents. They weren't enforcing the law.

[Sean Casey]

Yeah.

[Tom Holman]

They were simply finding people. They arrested people across the border. I wouldn't say they arrested them. It took them. They detained them. They processed them and took them to an airport or bus station or handed them over to ngo who took them to an airport or bus station. They were arresting people who broke our laws, entered the country legally, and sending them on their way. Children. They sent them to Orr, and Orr was delivering the children to the very people many times that arranged to have them smuggled in the United States. That's a felony. And Biden administration were delivering these children to the same people who paid time smuggled here. Now we're addressing that right now. We will hold people accountable. But that's what was occurring. So the morale was in the toilet. Border Patrol agents were quitting, retiring early, recruiting. They couldn't get recruiting done at all. Ice, same thing last month under the Border Patrol. The highest recruiting numbers ever in the history of the agency. Because people want to be a part of this. People want to be a part about securing the nation, protect that southern border. The recruiting numbers are through the roof. Morale's at an all time high.

[Sean Casey]

I mean, I would think it's at an all time high. I mean, I remember. I remember watching that the. The agent on horseback that they. They painted him out to be whipping, like he had a whip. And he was. And it turned out to be just the horse reins. I mean, they just kneecapped these guys.

[Tom Holman]

When that video, when that video came out, I was sitting in my living room. Now I was a board of true legion. I know the rules of engagement. I saw that video. I think, okay, they did perfectly. They performed perfectly. The horses performed perfectly. Just like the horses in New York City do crowd control. The horses are trained very well. And these officers on those horses are masters of what they do. I watched that. I thought these guys did a great job. The only people did anything wrong in that video were the Haitian illegal aliens who entered country illegally, which is a crime, by the way, and ignored commands from a federal officer, which is a crime. But no one talked about the Haitians violating the law that day. They talked about agents whipping black people. You had the President of the United States stand at the White House podium and slander these men. You had the Secretary of Homeland Security slander these men from the White House podium. And to this day, they've never been apologized to. I said from day one, once the investigation cleared them, they didn't whip anybody. Was there any apologies? No. And these men's families were bullied in churches and schools. Their careers would never be the same because now they got a record. And even after the investigation said they didn't whip anybody, they were trying to come up with some charges. Oh, you used a bad word or you were too aggressive. Because they want to embarrass the President. He had to come up with something. But the union got some good legal support fees, agents. But it was a travesty. Can you imagine being a GS12 Border Patrol agent and going home that night from work when the President of the United States compared you to racists?

[Sean Casey]

Man.

[Tom Holman]

I mean, these men and women put their lives online for this country every day. Look, in my career, I buried border patrol agents. I buried ICE agents. The saddest thing I've ever had to do is hand a folded flag to a. To a child or surviving spouse. They tarnished the memory of every agent, made the ultimate sacrifice that day. These men on horseback did a fabulous job and never received an apology after thrown under the bus from the White House podium. Now, President Trump, he's like me. He loves Borbato, loves ice. He has her six doing what we can to support him. But letting them do their jobs is the best morale booster you could ever do. I just told you a few minutes ago. I wake up every day like a kid in a candy shop. Cause we get to do the job that I dealt with for four decades and can fix the mess that Biden made. You think my morale is high? You'll see the morale of the men and women were actually making the difference. The ones that are carrying a badge and gun down there, their morale's at an all time high.

[Sean Casey]

I mean, this just bled into everything, every aspect of law enforcement. I mean, so many friends that left law enforcement over the last four years because they were telling me, hey, you know, we'd pick these guys up, we'd pull them over, they'd have drugs in the car, they'd be drunk, they'd be trafficking whatever the crime was. And if they didn't have proper documentation and they were illegal, then they had to let them go. So many guys walked off the job just because they weren't able to enforce the law. Is that still happening or is that Finished Morales.

[Tom Holman]

All the time high. They're doing the job. President Trump gives them full support, enforce laws, and they're doing it. Matter of fact, prosecutions right now on the southern border are all time high. They're just not arresting legal landlords. They're prosecuting people. They're prosecuting people for illegal entry. They're prosecuting people for a felony reentry after a deportation. They're prosecuting people for entering an army installation. There are prosecutions of smuggling skyrocket. Now we're stepping up prosecutions on the interior. You know, you got a lot of politicians out there, a lot of NGOs, who say they're educating illegal aliens their constitutional rights. You don't have to open the door for ice. You don't have to answer questions. You don't have to provide documents. And I've been going at this for a couple months now. But what we're doing now is 8 USC 1253, I think that's the site. You cannot hinder your own removal. If you have an order removed from a federal judge and you try to hinder that removal, that is a crime. We're going to start prosecuting if you're for it. So now we'll put you in jail, prosecute puts you, then we'll deport you. We're not playing games anymore. So we're out there. We're out there. Like I say, Sanctuary is hitting them hard, and we're going to hit them harder. We're going to keep coming the media and these leftist politicians and these activist judges. To this day, I've never seen the activist judges. I see right now when you have a district court judge, district court judge has a district putting in nationwide injunctions across the entire nation what we can and can't do. Every time we make progress, another judge says, you can't do it. We're in so much litigation right now, it's incredible. You know, they all want there's a legal process or a due process, but there was no legal process. They ignore the legal process and due process when they entered illegally, then use the legal process, then. Well, all of a sudden, now that we're deporting people, where's the legal process? Where's the due process? The amount of lawsuit they've already filed against the administration is just more than the last 10 years combined. It's just incredible. The amount of lawsuits we're facing right now. We'll win them, but it slows us down. And that's what their whole intention slow us down. Because we don't want to ruin their long term plans. Who these people may be someday. True to Democratic voters. I mean, I've never seen anything like this in my career.

[Sean Casey]

I mean, with 10.5 million illegal immigrants that have come across the border within the last four years, and then you come in to clean that up, where do you even begin?

[Tom Holman]

When President Trump made a clear wrong goal for public safety threats, national security threats first. And that's what we've been doing. But again, collateral numbers are increasing because of sanctuary cities. But it's a hard job. I can't tell you everything we do to find these people because law enforcement is sensitive. But like I said earlier, a lot of people have a footprint that makes it one way. But there's a lot of smart technology out there to help us find people. But sanctuary cities are hard.

[Host]

What agencies?

[Tom Holman]

Because these people are actually in custody at one point, we know who they are. Because here's what people don't understand. If you get arrested tonight, you're gonna get fingerprinted. And those fingerprints go to NCIC check for your criminal history. Well, they also bounce against DHS databases. So we know for a fact John Ryan just got arrested. He's sitting in Smith County Jail right now.

[Sean Casey]

That was a long time ago.

[Tom Holman]

So then we get bounced back. If we have immigration record, hey, this guy who has a warrant or deportation or this guy we deported before is sit in this jail right now. So we should detain her. Say, hey, we want that guy when you're done with him so we know where they're at. But when sanctuary cities release them, now they're in the community, now we gotta go find them. So it's very hard work. But there's a lot of smart technology out there right now to help us find these people. But it's not 100%. I mean, many times, you know, we go out and they move, they change their name and you know, just. It's a lot of hard work. But I guess my point is when people see us out there, we're not sweeping anything. We spend a lot of time and effort looking at these people and building a file on these people so we increase the chance that we actually find this guy and arrest him. It's not a simple process. It's a long, drawn out process. But it'd be so much more efficient if you just give us the bad guy in the jail. That will save thousands and thousands of hours of investigative work. It makes communities safer. Releasing a public safety threat back into the public when you don't have to it's just stupid. It just defies common sense.

[Host]

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[Tom Holman]

In the jail cell, why not give them to us when you're done with them? And you got sheriffs out there, well, we can't honor to detain them. We can't hold them for 48 hours on your word because there's some legal precedent that can't be done if we don't hold them for 40 hours. Why don't you call us before you release them? We'll be there. You don't have to hold them a minute past you would normally hold them. Just let us know when you're releasing them. We'll be there. It's about public safety. And I've called sheriffs out who refused to cooperate with us. I think they forgot what it's like being a law enforcement officer and became a politician. It's just Mayor Adams. I beat Mayor Adams up for three years. He was a career cop that became a mayor and forgot what it's like to be a cop. And his cops were being beat up by illegal aliens. And he still wasn't assisting with ice. Then I went up, met with him a few times through the election process. And after the election, for the first time, I sat down, I saw the cop come out of him and he said, you know what, you're right. Public safety threats. We should be shoulder, Shoulder, I need to get you in Rikers Island. You arrest a bad guy in Rikers island rather than being released back to the streets of New York. So we got him to the table, he's doing the right thing. And the city council sues him for working with me, working with us. It's just incredible.

[Sean Casey]

How many agencies are collaborating with you guys to get this done right now.

[Tom Holman]

The nationwide interior enforcement operation. President Trump has a hall of Government approach. First time ever. It's amazing. We got, okay, we've got ICE, which is HSI and ERO, enforcement removal operations. We got the DEA, you got the FBI, you got ATF, you got U.S. marshals, you got the State Department. I think the postal inspectors are coming on. But for sure it's all the DOJ agencies. And what's great about it, we arrest the illegal alien target and he has dope. DEA is right there. You can prosecute him before we deport him. If you know he got a gun, get ATF right there, prosecute him. Illegal alien, possession of firearm, 922G felony. Prosecute them, then we deport them. It's great. Plus, they have their own intelligence, right? DEA has a lot numerous investigations that involve foreign nationals. So they're sharing intelligence with us. FBI, same thing. Numerous investigations of foreign nationals. All of our intelligence, our databases collide with one we all got there working. And it's been amazing. President Trump's a game changer, putting DoD on a border with us. Pete Hegseth said it best that we spent decades defending other nations borders, now we're defending ours.

[Sean Casey]

I want to get to the actual border here in a bit. But when it comes to the economy, and I'm just curious to hear your thoughts here, there's such a big sector of the economy that relies on cheap labor, illegal immigration, home builders, commercial builders, landscaping. Just about all the blue collar jobs in that sector seem to be illegal immigrants. And so I'm sure because of the mass deportations that the prices are going to rise. And something that I hear a, a lot of are business owners that they're trying to get their workforce legal and put them through that system and they're not able to do it. Is there any, or do you think there should be any type of program to fast track people that are just here to work? Keeps business flowing, keeps prices a little bit less than what they would be? I mean, is there any type of program where construction types can get their workforce legalized?

[Tom Holman]

Well, first of all, let me tell you my thoughts. After doing this for four years, my opinion is most people don't hire an illegal alien out of the goodness of their heart. The Hiram can work them harder, pay them less, undercut the competition who have just said as employees. I'll give you one example. I put a new roof in my house several years ago. I had to call five different companies, five or six, I think five, until I got a company that guaranteed me a legal workforce. We had a lot of people come and give me bids. One guy showed up, it was him and his son. They were hoping they could just do a repair and I'll do the whole roof. I said, I don't need the whole roof. He told me he had 20 US citizen employees they put on the roof at 15, 20 bucks an hour. But he couldn't win a bid because the other companies aren't illegal aliens. Putting them on the roof for five, seven dollars an hour, ridiculous wages. He couldn't win a bid. So what did he do? He laid off 20 citizen employees and him and son just doing repairs. That happens a thousand times across this country every day because you undercut your competition as US Citizens and illegal employment drives down wages. That's proven. So with that, I can tell you that it will have an impact in some industries, especially now that we're doing work site enforcement operations. But Biden administration shut down worksite enforcement operations at the same time. We had the biggest human trafficking crisis in the history of this nation. Where do we find most victims of trafficking workforce operations? And like I said, where do we find a lot of bad guys if we can't arrest them in the Jail at their job. We can't arrest them home, arrest them at jobs. We're doing work site enforcement operations. Well, there's some industries that really rely on them. I think President Trump made it clear just a few weeks ago that farm workers, he wants to increase the program that allows more people to come to this country to work on Farms. It's H2A H2B program. Congress needs to make a fix. What needs to happen is Department of Labor needs to ascertain if there's truly a need for that employment to make sure there's not US Citizens willing to take those jobs. So Congress has a role here. I think President Trump's looking at that sector to try to provide help. So it's a common sense approach. And that's why I think he's concentrated on public safety threats, national security threats first. Why they work out some of these other plans. But under Trump, 45, he put an immigration plan on the table that based immigration in this country based on merit, based what they can bring to this country as far as work also. But he still kept moms, dads, sons and daughters in there and family. It's a great plan. I was involved and looked at it parts. I weren't involved. I looked at what happened. Congress didn't bring it up. Why? Because the plan required money for a wall. He had a fix for daca, got shut down by Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. Why? Because there's money for the wall. So President Trump again is putting things on the table, I think would be very beneficial. If there's a need for that employment, then we should have those employees. But it has to go through a process, make sure we're not displacing US Citizen employees. A lot of high tech jobs are going to outside companies from foreign nations. Don't tell me there's not enough US Citizen employees to take those high tech jobs. Good paying jobs. There just needs to be a process. But President Trump started the other day talking about farm workers. We need to really pay attention on farms because there is a need for more employment on farms, but they need to go through the legal process. And there is a legal process. Could be improved. But there is a legal process. H2A program. You can bring farm workers on a seasonal basis to come and for instance, pick crops during the season, then go back home when they're done with the season. So there's some more work to do on that. But that's why I think President Trump's concentrating on the criminals right now.

[Sean Casey]

Would you like to see the red tape ease up a little bit when it comes to doing something like this.

[Tom Holman]

Of course, Congress can fix a lot of things. Just like I told you earlier, there's three laws they could fix right now that will solve 85% of the border problem. That way, every administration that comes in doesn't have to undo what the other one did.

[Sean Casey]

What are those laws?

[Tom Holman]

Trafficking victims acts. As we talked about, the asylum rules and the Flora settlement agreement let us detain families in residential center. Those three rules alone. Well, Congress can't seem to get anything done. I mean, funding right now. I mean, we're doing great work, but with more money, we could do more. I mentioned 700,000 illegal aliens with some sort of criminal history, either convicted or pending criminal charges. With more money, we could put more teams out there. Everybody we arrest to deport. We need a bed for. We need more beds. So Congress needs to fund what I call a mandate for the American people that put him in office to do. Congress needs to fund us. It's the same old budgeting process, right? Under Trump. 45, Trump tried to do the right thing the first two years he had the House and Senate. A lot of things couldn't get done because there's some Republicans on the Hill and never Trumpers didn't want to do the right thing. So I don't have a lot of faith in them. I'm hoping they learn a lesson now that we have the House and Senate. Right now, we got two years to make a difference because who knows what's going to happen in two years. You never count on anything. But Congress needs to step up. A lot of these problems could be solved by Congress. But until then, President Trump has stepped up again. The game changer. He's issued a series of executive orders that gave us the most secure border in the history of this nation. Right now, that's given us more criminal arrest in the interior than Biden ever did. So we're doing really good, but with more money, we can do more and do it quicker. Congress got a lot of things they.

[Sean Casey]

Could address when it comes to the deportations. There's a very controversial case with the El Salvadorian guy who. He was an El Salvadorian citizen, correct?

[Tom Holman]

Yes.

[Sean Casey]

What is the controversy there?

[Tom Holman]

The controversy is during his immigration proceedings, he had a. He had an order from a judge that he couldn't be removed to El Salvador because he showed a fear of his safety from a gang that was in El Salvador. He had an order of withholding. However, he had two orders of deportation. Now people say it was a mistake. I'd call it maybe an oversight. Because even though there's withholding order in there, the facts of that withholding order, the facts that justified the withholding order have changed. For instance, that gang he was afraid of no longer exists in El Salvador.

[Sean Casey]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Tom Holman]

Second thing, because President Bukele like him or love him, that's one of the safest nations in the region right now. What he did, he obliterated Ms. 13 his nation. The second thing that changed, the fact that changed is now he's a designated terrorist because he's a verified member of MS.13. So things change since the remote. Number one, now he's a designated terrorist and two, the fear he has no longer exists. So, and here's what's going on. Here's what the best that could ever happen for him. Let's say he came back. He's going to be immediately detained and deported again because there's deportation. He'd been already deported by two different judges. They said they didn't have due process. He's been order removed by two different judges. He had just due process. So where I see it, he's home, he's a citizen in national El Salvador. He is home and Bukele can do what he wants. I won't get in the weeds of, you know, because it's under litigation, but I think we removed the public safety threat, human trafficker, wife beater, designated terrorists from this country. This country's safer because he's no longer here. And we'll let the DOJ Kim continue to litigate it. But President Trump again committed to removing the worst of worst. And that's what we did.

[Sean Casey]

And he was an El Salvadorian citizen.

[Tom Holman]

Absolutely.

[Sean Casey]

And he was verified, Ms. 13 verified.

[Tom Holman]

By numerous sources, not only ICE, but by a police agency, gang unit judge recognized it. Even El Salvador recognized him as Ms. 13 member. So, you know, plus now truth's coming out, right? Video of him trafficking, smuggling wife, filing protection orders because he's, you know, assaulting her. It's unfortunate that Senator Van Hollen and others flew down there to, to cuddle with him at the same time. He had US citizen parents in his state of Maryland who buried their children because her children were murdered and raped by a TDA member. Ms. 13 member. I would think a US citizen would be more concerned with his US citizen constituency who buried their children more than designated terrorists. Public safety threat, white beater, illegal alien. But that's, that's where we're at in today. We're putting politics over public safety and politics over common sense. Mary, need news, you know, news reports. Oh, we're deporting u. S. Citizen children. We can't legally deport any U.S. citizen. What happened in those cases? They said, we deported U.S. citizen children. No, we didn't. The parent was already deported. The parent has a decision to make. Do I take my child with me? Do I leave him here with a spouse or another relative? That's Parenting 101. The mother chose to take her child with her. Her choice. If we didn't do it, then the story would be we're separating families. You can't win. You go back to this day, they still, you know, they refer to me as the godfather of family separation, right? Because I was ice director. We did zero tolerance where families were separated. And let me explain why we did that. Numbers were increasing. Families. So we said, all right, let's start prosecuting the parent who brings your child through this dangerous journey. Prosecuting for illegal entry, which is a crime. Maybe we prosecute them and put them in jail. They'll stop sneaking in the country through the cartels and put their children in harm's way. Maybe it would decrease the amount of rapes we see down there. Maybe less children would die. So we decided to do zero tolerance. Zero tolerance was done to save lives, decrease sexual assaults. As a cop, Law enforcement use zero tolerance across this country all the time. July 4th weekend, zero tolerance in DUI, zero tolerance on prostitution in the city. Law enforcement use zero tolerance. But let's try zero tolerance. Maybe we save some lives. Maybe less women get raped. However, when you prosecute that parent, they're going to be separated from the child. A child can't go to jail with a parent. Now that happens US Citizens, families across this country every day, thousands of times. When I was a cop in New York, I separated families. I arrested a father for dui. You had a child in the car. Guess what they got. Father went to jail. And many times the child would go to cps if there wasn't someone to take care of them. Domestic violence. I separated that family. I was cop. Father went to jail, separated from his kids. US Citizen families get separated every day by law enforcement. It's sad, it's unfortunate, but necessary. So we did zero tolerance. The whole focus of zero tolerance in my mind was less rapes, less people dying, less children put in harm's way. And it worked. Gerald Thomas, border crossings drop so homan's a racist, is cruel because he separated families. That's why we did it. Now you got 500,000 children who are smuggling in this country, away from their families, put in the hands of criminal cartels. So that's the family separation right there. If I left my kid in the car for a half hour, went and got groceries, I'd be arrested. If I left my dog in my car during summertime, I'd get arrested. But 500,000 children were put in the hands of criminal cartels, separated from their families. No one talks about that. They still want to talk about zero tolerance, but no one talks about these half a million kids. 300,000 they can't find.

[Sean Casey]

300,000 kids they can't find.

[Tom Holman]

They don't want to talk about that. They want to keep talking about Trump's zero tolerance for, I think 25, 3,000 separations. They didn't want to talk about the hundreds of angels and moms, angel moms and dad that I personally met and talked to, who buried their children. Their children were raped and murdered by a cartel or just simply killed by alien. That shouldn't be in this country. That's a separation because they bury their children. Their children are six foot under. No one wants to talk about that. The left keeps talking about zero tolerance and how inhumane the Trump policies were, but they ignore half a million kids, 300,000 missing, and US citizen parents who bury their children. Like the case of Lake and Riley. I can see her name on 100 cases like that. They don't want to talk about that. And then Senator Van Hollen goes down there to protect the MS.13 gamer while a mother of five was beat, raped and murdered in his state. Did he ever go meet with her? Politics over public safety, politics over common sense. Again, I'll say it, they need to love this country. They need to love their communities more than they hate President Trump. It just don't make sense. As a kid that grew up in law enforcement community, I cannot believe where we're at as a nation right now. President Trump is doing the right thing every day. Look, I spent so much time with the president, whether it's in the Oval Office, Air Force One, outside events, people can hate him all they want. This man loves this country. He's doing the right thing for this country. The America we grew up in, the America I grew up in, West Carthage, New York, Flag and I report, that's the America he wants back. Securing a border saves lives. He has illegal immigration on 96%. Studies have been done that women who make that journey get sexually. 31% of women get sexually assaulted when President Trump has illegal immigration down 96%. When 96% less people are coming, how many women aren't being raped? How many children aren't dying? How many Americans aren't dying from drug overdoses or fentanyl turns across that border? How many women and children aren't sex trafficked? How many members of terrorist watch list or no fly list aren't coming across that border? Even the wall saves lives. People say Trump's family wall. No. Every place they built a border barrier, illegal immigration went down, illegal drug flow went down. Every place they put a border barrier, the most important thing about the border barrier, no one talks about it, saves lives. Because the most vulnerable, the women and children, can't get over that wall, which means they're going to a place where there's not a wall. What's waiting on them? The men and women of the Border Patrol? Who's going to deal with that humanitarian issue right now? Because a lot of them are in bad shape when they find them. Wall saves lives. So when 96% less people are coming, how many lives are being saved? Every day on that southwest border, President Trump's saving thousands of lives. A secure border saves lives. And that's what the President Trump has done. And the left will give him zero credit for it.

[Sean Casey]

How did you come in and secure that border so fast?

[Tom Holman]

We got a great president, President Trump, during his first speech at the Capitol, when he says, you didn't need new laws, you didn't need Congress, you need a new president. He was exactly right. Because on Trump, 45, he was a game changer, right? He created the Remain in Mexico program. He had the third Safe Country Agreements. He stopped, ended, catch and release. So I knew when he came back in office, we know where to start because we already proved these policies worked. So he immediately wrote a series of executive orders, and many the same, many new ones. And like I said, in seven weeks, where that bordered highest level ever, even more now. I mean, I think in seven weeks had it down like over 90%. Now we're at 96%. And the numbers are extraordinary because what he came up with in his first administration proved it worked. That's why I pushed back against the bill that Congress had said that President Trump didn't want the border bill signed because he wanted this to be an election issue. That is such bullshit. That bill would not have worked because it was going to allow 5, 4 to 5,000 a day until they take action. You do the math, that's 1.8 million a year. We're okay with that. No, we're not. Shouldn't be okay with one. And then to address the sex trafficking or the child trafficking. The bill was terrible. There was a bill called HR2 that the Republicans came up with, and the Senate wouldn't even take it up for debate. So the bill that everybody talks about that President Trump shut down, I hope he did that, was against it. I said won't work. So why would we want to take a risk out of bill that we know it won't work, and we know what the secret recipe is, is what Trump did in Trump 45, which HR2, the bill I was talking about, that wouldn't even bring up, that had most of Trump's plans in it. We know that work. Why would you argue against known success? Well, here's what they did. They put this terrible bill up, had a couple of people in the Republican Party support it. For reasons I don't understand. They thought something was better than nothing, maybe. But they came up with a bill, the last of the administration, trying to show they cared about the border. What they did, it was a setup. Let's get a couple Republicans to agree to this. It will never pass. We know it will never pass. Then we say Republicans shut down border security. They didn't want to fix it. They didn't sign this bill. President didn't support it. He didn't want it fixed. He wanted this election issue. That was a bunch of crap. The bill wouldn't have worked. It would have made things worse. And I'd done this for long. I'd done it longer than anybody up on the Hill that was involved in writing this bill has been involved. It was a setup. Let's set a bill up. We know it will never be passed. And we put the blame on them for not passing the bill. That was their game plan. They tried it, but President Trump came back in, he did what he had to do, and we fixed it again. Most secure border ever right now.

[Sean Casey]

So it sounds like he basically just said, tom, take the gloves off, secure the border. What did you do? What did you do to fix it?

[Tom Holman]

The biggest game changer in securing the border was President Trump and executive orders. They're huge, big game changers. But we basically went down the same road we did before, and we added a few other things to it, like the Alien Emmys Act. We used every tool in the toolbox, every statute we could, every angle we could of existing laws, existing statues, existing acts to secure that border. Rather than making a border patrol problem or an ICE problem, we made all a government problem. The game changed with President Trump. The game changer was the men and women of ICE and men and women of Border Patrol that actually did it, took construction, got it done. They're the heroes in all this. I'm just a guy sitting in the White House helping develop the strategies along with people like Steve Miller and others. But President Trump, his EOs were a game changer from day one. Remain in Mexico a game changer. Out of all their policies, the last two administrations, Trump administration, that's the biggest game changer. You can still claim asylum, you have that right. But you're going to wait in Mexico because we know 9 out of 10 of you will lose and get order removal. Now we don't have to go find you. And releasing people in the United States just is an enticement. People come. When you no longer get released in the United States, if you're not really escaping fear and persecution, you're not willing to give your life savings to the criminal cartels to lose your case, if you really are escaping fear and persecution from your home government, then you're willing to put up with that. So here's a sad thing where the left is still saying these people are asylum seekers. They have a right to due process. They have a right to claim asylum. Okay? And 9 out of 10 have been order removed. And you don't want them removed. Due process doesn't mean squat. If at the end of due process, the judge's order isn't executed and that's why the hate right now. The talk of a massive deportation operation is racist. What a terrible thing to do. No, it's not. On the end of historic illegal immigration crisis with 10.5 million and that's a low number came to the southern. This is what we know about. Tens of millions of people come to the border. You demand due process and we give them that due process and a judge orders them removed and we don't remove them, then what the hell are we doing? Shut down immigration court doesn't mean anything anymore. Take the border patrol off the border because there's no consequence. No, due process doesn't mean squat if the final decision of the court isn't executed and if the message we want to send to the whole world enter the country illegally, it's a crime. Thousands of people die making the journey. Show up in court or don't show up in court, get order removed. But don't worry, no one's looking for you. You don't have to be removed. You're never going to solve the problem. You can't demand due process, ignore the end. So that's exactly what we're doing. People who've been already deported, they need to go home. But we're asking if you're in the country league, go on your own, Go on a CBP home app now, sign up, we'll help you get home. We'll give you an airline ticket, put some cash in your pocket, go home. It'd be a huge cost savings to American taxpayer. That way you can come back maybe in the future on our legal program, maybe as a visitor, maybe as a student, maybe you have a U.S. citizen child that can petition for you someday, alien relative. But if we have to go search for you and go through the whole process, haven't you formally deported? There are certain bars placed on you statutorily, anywhere from five to 20 years. You can't come back. Leave on your own, get your affairs in order, work with ICE and leave on your own. And that's what President Trump. How is that inhumane? President Trump's offering different ways to get this done. But the answer is you can't stay here. If you're in the country illegally, you've had your due process, it's time to leave. We can't send a message that our process means nothing, our laws mean nothing.

[Sean Casey]

I would imagine you're getting a lot of pushback from cartels.

[Tom Holman]

I mean, I get a lot of.

[Sean Casey]

Very much disrupting their financials with human trafficking, with drug trafficking, with anything else that's coming in. I mean, how is, what kind of, what kind of hurdles are you facing from cartels down there?

[Tom Holman]

Well, cartels are trying to, you know, they're going to change their method of operating. They want to get their product in here somehow. So I said earlier, maritime's increasing, There can be tunnels. They'll come to Canada again. We're on top of that. I think that's why President Trump is forcing Canada to do more to secure their southern border, our northern border. And they're stepping up some ways. The president wants more out of them, but addressing how the cartels change their method of operation, it's important.

[Sean Casey]

Are you seeing a lot of drone activity with product coming over?

[Tom Holman]

Yeah. How are you? Drone activity is picking up, but there's a lot of technology. DoD has some great technology along with. There's a lot of companies out there at the table now with great drone technology to address that threat. There was some intelligent reports saying they're going to deliver explosives on drones and try to harm us if that was ever to happen. All Hell's gonna break loose. President Trump will not tolerate it. He said from day one he will wipe them off the face of the earth and he will. He's already trying to talk to Mexico. Let's take the cartels out together. I think you and I both know it's gonna take the United States, it's gonna take this country. Whether it's Special Forces, our intelligence or whatever it is, they're not gonna do it without. They can't. Mexico has failed for decades to take out the cartels. It's gonna take leadership from the United States. I hope Mexico comes to the table because President Trump wants to wipe him off, face the earth like he did at Caliphate. I mean, he wants to do the right thing. I hope Maxwell steps up and lets us do it because that's the only way it's going to get done, in my opinion.

[Sean Casey]

Are you guys utilizing companies? Are you familiar with epirus?

[Tom Holman]

No, I'm not.

[Sean Casey]

Epirus. Is that anti drone?

[Tom Holman]

I can tell you that numerous drone operators have contacted me about helping out on border and I send them over to cbp, Custom border operations. I don't deal with contracts, but I send them over to the right people. I know they talk to a lot of people. They got some great technology down there. Now again, as we get more budget from Congress, we can do more of that. But there's a lot of great companies out there that has great technology. I've said it from day one, we could not do what we do as a whole, the government without smart contract personnel. It's like our detention operations. Our contract companies do it better than we've ever done it. They do it cheaper. They do it better. Out of those ice trucks, my most expensive beds were the ones that we owned. Federal government never does anything very cheap. There's a lot of smart companies out there coming to the table. Of course the left would say, well, they're prisons for hire, prisons for profit. There isn't a company out there that doesn't work for the government for a profit. I mean, you know, if that's the case, then shut down. Like Donald Douglas, you know, every company makes a profit dealing with the United States, but they provide a service we need. But I can tell you there's a lot of high tech companies. It seems like technology improves every other month. Great drone technology, great tunnel technology, helping us find people that don't want to be found. Great AI generated stuff. There's a lot of stuff out there that a lot of companies are coming to the table wanting to help and we welcome all of it.

[Sean Casey]

Yeah, I mean, like just epirus, for example. I mean, it's a directed EMP pulse that takes 100 drones out at once if cartel were to utilize that. And so I was just wondering if you're putting. If you're implementing that technology along the border, unmanned vehicles, the epirus energy wave weapon to take out drones, all that kind of stuff. How is DoD integrating with border patrol on the border?

[Tom Holman]

They've been fantastic. They've done a lot of intelligence backing for us. They do a lot of things that doesn't require immigration authority, a badge and gun. We've done 287 Geo National Guard on the interior. My goal was, and the White House goal is we need as many Title 8 immigration enforcement officers with a badge and gun, many of them on the street or on the line, as possible. We don't want them sitting there doing intelligence. We don't sit there building infrastructure or transportation. Put the badge and guns where they're needed the most and bring other people in. The other. I went down to El Paso, watched DOD down there in action. They're doing a lot of the intelligence. They got great capability of telling where the groups are crossing, where they're coming to, and war truck respond immediately to them. They do a lot of the radar technology, their camera technology. They call out to ice. Okay, you got a group coming here or there, it just saves our resources because rather than our guy operating the sensor or operating the camera, got DOD doing that. And that's just more agents on the street to respond quicker. So they've been a great force multiplier. Of course, the DoD airplanes, the removal flight's been fantastic. DoD stepping up with facilities, Gitmo and things like that. DoD's been a game changer. And I went to El Paso with Pete Hegseth, and he's all in. I mean, like I said, he told me that it's great that DOD is protecting our border now because they protect everybody else's border for decades. It's a game changer. When I go on the streets with ICE and I go to raids, I like to get out there. I miss it. So I go out there raids once in a while. And rather than just seeing a jackass as ice, I see Jack say, atf, dea, FBI, State Department, everybody's working together. President Trump this time came back stronger and harder. And I think that's why we had the greatest success right now, because he brought all of government. Because again, I think the overarching principle here, you can't have strong national security. If you don't have strong border security. We didn't know what's coming in, who's coming in, why it's coming in, where it's coming in. So I think President Trump recognizes that, so he put the all of government on there. And like I say, today, we got the most secure board in history of this nation. Because of his out of the box thinking on this, I think other administrations are going to be envious of the success that President Trump's had.

[Sean Casey]

Has there been any kinetic pushback from cartels? Is there any combat going on down at the border?

[Tom Holman]

There's combat going on in the interior of Mexico because now they're fighting each other for control of plazas because they're losing money. So they wanted bigger control. There's been a battle going on down there for a while. You don't hear read a lot about it, but I know people that have that intelligence. My fear, as I mentioned before, my fear is that violence overlaps the border. I actually say a prayer every night for the men and women of the board to an ice to go home safe every day, because I feel like it's a matter of time. I hope I'm wrong, but especially in sanctuary cities where they're knocking on the door of a bad guy who has access to who knows what, when he could have got him in a county jail. I hope I'm wrong. But the odds of us doing this for four years, nobody being harmed, concerns me. Our officers are at great risk because we are prioritizing worse than worse. And so many criminals came in under Biden, so many public safety threats, national security threats. I mean, our agents are being doxed, pictures and home addresses being put out there, man. You know, I mean, I get doxed every day. I mean, I'm used to it, but I had a thousand protesters on my home the other day. Thousand. They're not going, you know, wasting our time. You can. You can exercise your First Amendment rights all you want, but Tom Holmer's going to keep doing what he's doing. I'm not going anywhere. But the agents. I'm concerned about the agents and the media doesn't help when they call them thugs and they're violating people's rights and they're violating civil rights, they're violating due process. A bunch of bullshit. These men and women are very well trained and as one stepped online once in a while. Yeah, you got bad dentists, you got bad doctor, you got bad lawyers, and I'm sure we have some bad officers here. And there. But 99% of these men and women strap a gun to a hip every day, put a Kevlar vest on, and they don't make a lot of money and they get vilified just like the horse patrol did. They don't deserve that. But they got a president now, rather than sitting at the White House polling and vilifying them for something they didn't do. You got a president, has their six.

[Sean Casey]

How is it working with the Mexican government? Are they on board? Are they helping at all?

[Tom Holman]

Mexico stepped up. I mean, they put military on their border. They've agreed to remain in Mexico and stage progress. We got a tough president. He's not going to take no for an answer. You know, it's against the law in Mexico to trafficking women and children. They need to prosecute it. It's against the law in Mexico to transit that country if you're from another country without a transit visa. But they allowed it. So President Trump and Joe Biden could have done this. Strong president would do it. Strong president came in. He's not going to take no for an answer. During Trump 45, I remember after operation Matador arrested all these el Salvador and Ms. 13 gang members on the way home on Air Force One, he, the president asked me how soon we can get him out. I told him it's a long, drawn out process. El Salvador pushes back on return to criminals. I think it was two, three days later I got a call. How many planes can we fill up? PRESIDENT CARL El Salvador says you're going to take them back. The third safe country agreements, they didn't want to sign those bills. The president held them accountable. Mexico. Trump 45, you know, he said you don't tariff them. You know, President Trump puts America first. So Mexico's helping. I don't know how much of this they want to help or how much they have to help because you got a strong president in the White House. I mean, I don't get Marco Rubio and President Haslow's discussions. The vice president. I can just tell you Mexico has a lot of resources on the border now and there's some intelligence or taking on some of the fentanyl, but we'll see.

[Sean Casey]

What would you like to see? DOD do? Would you like to see socom, JSOC units go into Mexico and rid the cartel?

[Tom Holman]

I won't get ahead of the president on that, but I don't think the cartels are going to go away without U.S. involvement. President Trump did it. ISIS, we show we're really good at the away game. I think when it comes to criminal cartels, we gotta play the away game, stop the poison before it gets here. Then of course, on this side of the border, we gotta address the drive, the need for drugs like that. We gotta address that. We're a customer. So. But do I think the criminal cartels are going to go away without our involvement? Absolutely not.

[Sean Casey]

I don't know.

[Tom Holman]

Mexico has failed in decades to do it. And like I say, a lot of Mexico's corrupt.

[Sean Casey]

They run Mexico. I mean, they're infiltrated.

[Tom Holman]

Mexican military is corrupt, much of the Mexican law enforcement's corrupt, much of the Mexican government's corrupt. And many of them don't want to be corrupt. Well, you take the payoff and do what we tell you to, we'll kill you and your family and they will. So I think if we were to wipe the cartels off the face of the earth, Mexico would be such a better country. It'd be a safer country, a self ruling country where cartels don't own the military and law enforcement and some government officials. I think in the long run, Mexico would be such a better country if they didn't have the cartels operating there. So I think President Trump did exactly the right thing. Designated in tariffs. I think he's doing the right thing, offering Mexico his assistance and taking him out.

[Sean Casey]

Do you think we'll see any action in the next three and a half years?

[Tom Holman]

I think that President Trump's going to do what he can to protect the American people.

[Sean Casey]

How is it working with Kristi Noem?

[Tom Holman]

Kristi Noem has come to the table. I mean, she, she's done more, I've learned awful lot. She'd done more enforcement actions and Mallorca's dead in four years, so she's out there. I saw her out there the other day taking on Governor Pritzker, which she had been taken care of. But she's out there working. I saw her doing ride alongs with ICE and BOR patrol and Coast Guard. So she's out there with the men and women on the front line, which I think's great. I think it shows men and women that she's supporting them. Of course, now she's being vilified, Right? So she's being attacked. I watched her hearing the other day, I thought she did great. They want to attack. Anything to do with immigration enforcement, anything to do with deportations, they're just, they're going to continue to attack and attack and attack. But again, we all expect that the.

[Sean Casey]

Media is saying that you're deporting U.S. citizens. Is there any truth to that?

[Tom Holman]

No, it's illegal. Deport US Citizens. We simply allow illegal alien parents to be deported. If they want to take their child with them who may have been born here, that's their decision. They can leave them here or take them with them. I mean, that's parenting one on one. And like I said, you know, if we didn't allow the mother take her child with her, then immediately saying, Trump administration is separating families again, we're trying to keep families together. I said it during the interview before the election. I always asked that question, how do you do a mass deportation operation while separating families, deport the family together? If you're in this country illegally and you know you're in the country legally and you choose to have a child here, who's going to be a US Citizen based on that, you put yourself in that position. Not Tom Holman, not President Trump, not the Trump administration. You made that decision to have a child while you're here, knowing you're in the country illegally, and you most likely will be deported. That's on you. So when that parent gets ordered deported, they have a choice to make. They made a choice about having a childhood, and I didn't even make a choice. Take the child with you as a parent or leave them here with the other parent or leave them here with a relative. That is your call. So it's parenting one on one. Let the parent make the decision. But for those that vilify us, no, they put themselves in that position. Now they got to deal with it.

[Sean Casey]

Where did they even come up with this shit? Are they just making stories up thin air?

[Tom Holman]

Well, they say because US Citizen children want their parents, we deported children. Absolutely not. Reported the children and others saying, well, the child wasn't given due process. What do you mean, due process? They're an infant. The mother says, my infant goes with me. Who's going to disagree with that? She's the mother. So, you know, like I say, the last administration want to attack zero tolerance, separating families. This time we're trying to keep families together. We can't do that either. I mean, we're doing the right thing, parenting 101. I mean, again, if we send a message, you can enter the country legally, you get an order removed. Don't leave, hide out for a few years, have a US Citizen child. And guess what? Now you're immune. That court order doesn't mean anything. You're immune from our laws. If that's the message we're going to send the whole World, you're never going to solve the problem. They're going to keep coming to this country. You have a US citizen child and you're good to go. That's the message we can't send. Having a US citizen child does not make you immune from our laws.

[Sean Casey]

Where do you go from here? I mean, you've secured it to 96.

[Tom Holman]

We still got some more, we got a little more work to do on the border and you know, it's still a crisis until we, you know, there are some gotaways we're concerned about. Who are they? Are they people from terrorist related country? We don't know. So we got to drill some things, drill down some of the things. Northern border needs more work, maritime needs more work. But right now we got the most secure border in history of the nation right now. So we got some more work to do. Got to play the way game more. We need to address the cartels outside this country who traffic people from all over the world. We got to shut them down. So we got to play the way game. Interior enforcement, we got a lot of work to do. Personally, I think there's over 20 million illegal aliens in this country. They keep saying 12 million. We've been using 12 million for two decades. I mean by the administration alone we know they release at least 6 to 7 million released. So you know, I think there's at least 20. We got a lot of work to do here. Again, we're going to concentrate on the worst first. But just because, let me make this clear, just because we're concentrating on the worst first doesn't mean we ignore everybody else. You know, I may prioritize my family life on my work life. I don't forget about my work life. If you're in the country legally, you got a problem, you're not off the table. But we're going to do this wise, we'll do it a smart way once. The public safety threats and national security threats, they're the biggest danger of the community. So of course they have to go first. So we got more interior enforcement work to do. We need to shut down sanctuary cities. Sanctuary cities should be illegal. And I think we got the right people in place now with this administration, Pam Bondi and others that will take sanctuary cities to test, take them to court. We gotta shut down progressive judges who simply are ignoring the law and, and trying to stop us from doing what we're doing. I think we'll win these cases when they get to higher courts, but it's just, it's going to Take a long time.

[Sean Casey]

Will we see a completion to the wall that was.

[Tom Holman]

We're already rebuilding the wall again. The more money we have, the more wall we can do. So again, we need Congress to fund us. The more money we have, the more we can do. I've said that before.

[Sean Casey]

Where are the strategic locations where you would start. But the wall.

[Tom Holman]

The border has a strategic plan based on the crossings, based on where they think, where traffic has historically come and where they're seeing dial a few coming across. That plan changes all the time based on intelligence, based on what they're finding out down south. So that changes all the time. But Borto, at that point, they just don't put a wall up here because it's cheaper. They don't put a wall up here because someone wants a wall there. Borto actually has a strategic plan built on intelligence and crossings information from the smuggling cartels about where their activities are switching to. Then they'll place the wall where it makes the most sense. I don't want to give specifics because that specifically will change next month.

[Sean Casey]

Gotcha.

[Tom Holman]

Well, there's places where the wall can't be built, right? Like in the, the national parks. We're going to need more technology there because you can't build a wall like this. There are some areas where there's natural cliffs. That's where you put anti drone technology and more technology. What the Biden administration did when they stopped building the wall, even some of the wall that was built, they wouldn't even finish the technology inside that wall, smart technology that allowed agents to communicate, allows agents to run quick records checks. You know, you approach that wall, you dig under that wall, you climb that wall. Well, no, there's a lot of technology in that wall. They stopped the technology in that wall. There's places on the border agents can't talk to one another. So not only so we got to finish technology in some of the existing wall, but we're building more smart wall smart walls. It's a wall system, it's just not a wall. A lot of technology in that wall. You got access to that wall pathways, agents can respond quickly. So there's a lot to it. But we're already starting to rebuild it. We're also putting, I think, right, we're already doing 75 miles of buoy barriers in the river which are very effective.

[Sean Casey]

What are those?

[Tom Holman]

They're buoys that float in the middle of the Rio Grande and almost impossible to get over. And underneath it there's a fencing. Underneath it goes all the Way to the soil through. They're a game changer. On Trump 45, we looked at that technology, we liked it. Of course, then the election happened. It never happened. But now I think they're putting 75 miles of it in more. And that's right on the water. So people stop, they see the barrier, most will not attempt to cross, which means less drowned. A lot of people drown that river every year. So when they see that barrier saves lives, and less people want to take that barrier on. I mean, a lot of illegal aliens die in that river. People think that river doesn't have a current. You're wrong. Hundreds of people die in that river every year. Not now. Because the more secure. Well, the Trump administration, not only you see people drown, they find antibodies all the time. People just die crossing the river. A lot of people can't swim.

[Sean Casey]

What is the. Just a personal question. Bortac. I've heard a lot about it. Can't get anybody to talk about it. Seems like they're extremely well trained, almost like a JSOC unit. What is. What is the mission of bortac?

[Tom Holman]

They're kind of the BOR Patrol SWAT team. They're badass.

[Sean Casey]

That's what I hear.

[Tom Holman]

Guys are good. I mean, I was never in Bortech when I was in Borto. I wasn't good enough. These guys are well trained, great shots, great with a firearm. Now they're into rappelling and jumping on an airplane with a parachute. These guys have increased their training. They're incredible.

[Sean Casey]

Is it within the US Border they operate or do they go into Mexico too?

[Tom Holman]

They don't operate within Mexico where they do operate on the border in the interior. In my home state in New York, a couple prisoners escaped from Dannemore State Prison and looked for him for a long time, couldn't find him. They brought BORTAC in there. They found the first guy. Well, they actually shot and killed the first one. Second one was later caught. He had a prisoner escape in the jail about two years ago. Couldn't find Borto. Bortak's good. They're well trained. And it all started back in my day. I was born in Campo. While I worked down the San Diego area, Tijuana area, they had what they called the Border Bandit Squad because bandits would work the border and they'd rip people off heading to the United States, take all the money, take their goods, rape women. So you had border bandits. They're operating. So we had a border Bandit patrol, which was border patrol special operations, along with local sheriffs took a lot of those border bandits out. A lot of armed conflicts, a lot of shootings. But BORTAC is, I would call it the SWAT team of the BOR Patrol, and they're very, very well trained.

[Sean Casey]

Well, Tom, we're wrapping up the interview here. Last question. Second to last question. I just want to know, is there anything we didn't cover that you want the American people to know?

[Tom Holman]

I want the American people to know that the Trump administration, unlike what the media is pushing, is not inhumane. Everybody in this group is trying to save lives. As I said earlier, secure border saves lives. We're looking over 300,000 children, the Biden administration recently in the country to sponsor them, weren't properly vetted. Everybody in this program right now knows what it's like to see children forced sex trafficking or forced labor. I've seen a lot of tragedy in my life, and I'm simply trying to prevent as much of that tragedy as possible to secure border, sex lives. I get called a lot of names. I don't care. I don't give a shit what people think about me. I don't. As long as my family, my Lord and savior, think I'm doing the right thing, then I'm good. The hate doesn't mean anything. The protesters, I love them. That means my message is getting out. That means you're the target. We're saving lives every day. Secure border saves lives. Illegal immigration is not a victim's crime. People, you see an illegal alien, you say, okay, well, here he's making a better life for himself and his family. He's working, maybe in a restaurant or something. But you don't understand the whole ugly underbelly what happens with these criminal cartels, what happens on that border. Illegal immigration is not a victim of crime. The system needs to be fixed. But until then, we can't allow people to come in this country unvetted. We can't allow the border to be a crime zone for 2000 months. Just can't allow that. A lot of bad things happen on that border. A lot of bad things come across that border. And the Trump administration, I'm proud to say, again, I'll say a thousand times a day, the most secure border in the history of the nation today because of leadership. President Trump and the men and women wearing that uniform.

[Sean Casey]

Man, that's good to hear.

[Tom Holman]

So I would like to. I've read all these stories about Border Patrol ICE agent for your viewers. If you see a Border Patrol agent, tell them thank you. They're getting vilified Every day by the media, ICE agents, they're getting vilified. Death threats are outrageous. Just give them a thank you because they really are. 2 o' clock, 3 o' clock this morning, you're going to be laying in bed. I'm going to be laying in bed. Hopefully we'll be sleeping next to our loved ones at the same time you got a border patrol agent standing on a dirt trail in the middle of nowhere because the sensor went off. So something's coming north on that dirt trail. They don't know. Is it an illegal alien look for a better life or is it a heavily armed drug smuggler? They don't know. They're going to take it on. I know because I've done it. I've stood in that dirt trails, border trails and shit in your pants wondering what's coming. But they're going to stay in there and take it on. They're doing this every night while we sleep, keeping this country safe. Men, women, with ice, they're getting vilified every day in the media. Everywhere I wake up, read all these stories about ice age, how terrible they are. People need to remember the ICE agents and BOR patrol agents, they're mothers and fathers too. They don't hang their heart on a hook. They go to work. They've seen a lot of bad things happen that they take home to them every day. They take sicknesses home to their families. Whether it's tb, they get TB screenings all the time. They take sickness. These men in the boar patrol, they actually bring toys from their families to bring them to children to play with while they're in the facilities. They really do care. They really do have a great heart. Under the last four years on the Biden administration, the record amount of border toys that committed suicide was highest ever had. Over 40, I believe. Now I don't know, whatever internal struggles they were having, giving CPR to babies, talking to little girls, being raped, finding dead bodies floating down the river, seeing how these criminal cartels treated these people certainly weighed on them to the point they took their own lives. These men and women are heroes and I hope the American people understand your heroes. Recognize them as heroes and thank them. That's all I ask for. I mean, I'll retire again, hopefully for the last time, but I'll always have the six of of these men and women because I was one of them. I know what it takes. They're the nation's finest. Our military and our first responders are America's -1%. I hope people recognize that true Americans.

[Sean Casey]

It's a great closing statement. Thank you. Last question. We had three people you'd like to see on the show. Who would it be?

[Tom Holman]

President Trump. You want him?

[Sean Casey]

You bet.

[Tom Holman]

I think President Trump. I think he's. Again, people have their opinions, but for a guy that does what I do, Greatest president of my lifetime because it's proven success on the border. John Roberts. Get him on the show and figure him out.

[Sean Casey]

All right.

[Tom Holman]

Third, let's go say cash. We already had him. Stephen Miller.

[Sean Casey]

Reach out.

[Tom Holman]

Stephen Miller has a. Has a great mind. He's just brilliant. And not just with immigration trade. I mean, just a smart guy. I think he'd have interesting conversation.

[Sean Casey]

I would love that. Maybe you can help me reach him. Perfect.

[Tom Holman]

I'll see him in the morning.

[Sean Casey]

All right. Well, Tom, I just want to say it was an honored interview.

[Tom Holman]

And Pete Hegseth, number four.

[Sean Casey]

Pete Hegseth. I'll work on him. He's been on before.

[Tom Holman]

Pete has.

[Sean Casey]

So has President Trump, but I'll do what he can.

[Tom Holman]

When was President Trump on?

[Sean Casey]

I think it was. I think it was August.

[Tom Holman]

No, you gotta get him now.

[Sean Casey]

All right.

[Tom Holman]

Look at what he's doing.

[Sean Casey]

Put in a word for me.

[Tom Holman]

Look what he's doing right now. Now you need to talk to him.

[Sean Casey]

All right.

[Tom Holman]

He's changing the world.

[Sean Casey]

We'll do what we can.

[Tom Holman]

Right, man?

[Sean Casey]

All right. Well, thank you so much again. And, man, you're just. You're crushing it.

[Tom Holman]

And appreciate you. Good to see. Foreign MLB all star Sean Casey, AKA the Mayor, keeps hitting it out of the park.

[Sean Casey]

Take my 30 years of experience. Take the wisdom and knowledge I've learned from the failures when I got sent down my rookie year, all the injuries.

[Tom Holman]

I had to overcome.

[Sean Casey]

Your mind is the most important tool.

[Tom Holman]

You have in life. Be relentless. Keep charging. It matters how you talk to yourself, how you look at the world. That matters. We talk about that. I don't know. I'm fired up.

[Sean Casey]

Baseball's back and it's going to be incredible.

[Tom Holman]

I love it. The mayor's office with Sean Casey from Believe, Follow and Listen on your favorite platform.