Shawn Ryan Show – Episode #200: Tom Holman - The U.S. Border Czar
Host: Sean Casey
Guest: Tom Holman, Former Acting Director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)
Release Date: May 15, 2025
Introduction
In episode #200 of the Shawn Ryan Show, host Sean Casey interviews Tom Holman, a seasoned law enforcement veteran with over four decades of experience. Holman, known as the "Border Czar," served as the Acting Director of ICE from January 2017 to June 2018 during President Trump's administration. The conversation delves into Holman's personal journey, his pivotal role in shaping U.S. immigration policy, and his perspectives on contemporary border security challenges.
Early Life and Background
Tom Holman opens up about his upbringing in West Carthage, New York, a small town of approximately 2,500 residents. Born into a strong Catholic family with seven siblings, Holman recounts the patriotic environment of his community, heavily influenced by proximity to Fort Drum, a prominent Army base.
Notable Quote:
"I grew up in an era where police were highly respected and people loved their country. Literally American flags everywhere. It's a great childhood."
— Tom Holman [04:50]
Holman's father served as a judge and was previously a police officer, instilling in him a lifelong commitment to law enforcement. This familial legacy motivated Holman from a young age to pursue a career in policing, a dream he fulfilled immediately after college.
Career in Border Patrol and ICE
Holman's professional journey began in the Border Patrol in 1984, starting as a GS5 Border Patrol agent in Campo, California. Over the years, he advanced to become a Special Agent, Criminal Investigator, and eventually rose through the ranks to lead ICE.
Notable Quote:
"I became an ICE director through the ranks, from the bottom to the top. And what I like about that is the 20,000 men and women that work for me, I never asked them to do anything that I didn't do myself because I was one of them."
— Tom Holman [16:03]
His tenure at ICE was marked by significant achievements in combating human and drug smuggling, as well as dismantling criminal cartels involved in trafficking operations.
Experiences and Challenges on the Southern Border
Holman shares harrowing experiences from his time on the southern border, detailing the brutality of cartel operations and the human cost of illegal immigration.
Notable Quote:
"As a father, when I sit down and talk to a little girl who's been raped by a smuggling group, it changes who we are. You never thought a 9-year-old should have to beg for her life."
— Tom Holman [25:15]
One poignant story involves the discovery of a 9-year-old girl who suffered unimaginable trauma during her journey, highlighting the urgent need for secure borders to prevent such tragedies.
Impact of Political Policies on Border Security
A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the contrasting policies of the Trump and Biden administrations. Holman criticizes Biden's approach, attributing increased illegal crossings, deaths, and human trafficking to intentional policies that he asserts have undermined border security.
Notable Quote:
"For four years, I woke up pissed off because I knew when they open this border up, more people would die, more women and children would get sexually assaulted by the cartels."
— Tom Holman [22:20]
He lauds Trump's executive orders and strategic initiatives, such as the "Remain in Mexico" policy and the construction of additional border barriers, as effective measures that restored order and significantly reduced illegal immigration.
Notable Quote:
"We now have the most secure border in the history of this nation."
— Tom Holman [57:35]
Human Trafficking and Sex Trafficking
Holman provides disturbing accounts of human trafficking, particularly involving women and children. He emphasizes the role of cartels in perpetuating these heinous crimes and the psychological toll they take on law enforcement officers.
Notable Quote:
"Half a million children were trafficking in this country, smuggled into the hands of criminal cartels. That's family separation on a massive scale."
— Tom Holman [138:05]
He advocates for aggressive measures to dismantle trafficking networks and protect vulnerable populations, stressing that securing the border is essential to curbing these atrocities.
Concerns about Terrorism
Addressing national security, Holman expresses deep concerns about the potential for terrorists to exploit weakened border controls under the Biden administration. He underscores the importance of thorough vetting processes to prevent malicious actors from entering the country.
Notable Quote:
"If we have to go search for you and go through the whole process, haven't you formally deported? There are certain bars placed on you statutorily, anywhere from five to 20 years. They can't stay here."
— Tom Holman [146:00]
Holman asserts that the lax policies enable not only criminals but also terrorists to infiltrate the U.S., posing significant threats to national security.
Sanctuary Cities and Law Enforcement Cooperation
A contentious topic discussed is the role of sanctuary cities, which Holman argues impede effective law enforcement by refusing to cooperate with ICE and Border Patrol in detaining and deporting illegal immigrants.
Notable Quote:
"Sanctuary cities should be illegal. They're knowingly releasing public safety threats back into the community."
— Tom Holman [94:07]
He laments the political support sanctuary cities receive, attributing it to leftist agendas that prioritize politics over public safety.
Morale and Support among Border Patrol and ICE Agents
Holman highlights a resurgence in morale among Border Patrol and ICE agents under the Trump administration, attributing it to renewed support and effective leadership.
Notable Quote:
"Morale's at an all-time high because we're getting to do what we're here to do—protect the nation's border."
— Tom Holman [108:04]
He contrasts this with the low morale and high turnover rates experienced during the previous administration, emphasizing the positive impact of strong leadership and clear policies.
Border Wall and Infrastructure
The construction and enhancement of the U.S.-Mexico border wall are pivotal themes. Holman describes the wall's strategic placement based on intelligence and crossing patterns, integrating advanced technologies to bolster security.
Notable Quote:
"The wall saves lives by preventing the most vulnerable from making the deadly journey."
— Tom Holman [169:26]
He discusses innovations like buoy barriers in the Rio Grande and smart wall technologies that include sensors and communication tools for Border Patrol agents.
Anti-Drone and Tunnel Technologies
Addressing modern smuggling tactics, Holman discusses the increasing use of drones and tunnels by cartels to infiltrate the U.S. He underscores the necessity of adopting cutting-edge technologies to counter these threats.
Notable Quote:
"Drone activity is picking up, but there's a lot of technology. We need companies with advanced drone detection and mitigation systems."
— Tom Holman [150:05]
Holman also mentions collaborations with defense departments and technology firms to enhance border security capabilities.
Future Plans and the Role of Government and Mexico
Looking ahead, Holman advocates for continued aggressive measures to combat cartels and improve border security. He emphasizes the importance of international cooperation, particularly with Mexico, to effectively dismantle trafficking networks.
Notable Quote:
"It’s going to take leadership from the United States and cooperation from Mexico to wipe the cartels off the face of the earth."
— Tom Holman [150:02]
He calls for enhanced funding, legislative support, and strategic partnerships to sustain and expand border security initiatives.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
In his closing remarks, Holman passionately defends the Trump administration's border policies, advocating for a secure and humane immigration system that prioritizes national security and public safety over political agendas.
Notable Quote:
"Secure borders save lives. Every day, our agents are keeping this country safe while facing undue vilification in the media."
— Tom Holman [174:08]
He urges the American public to recognize and support the men and women on the front lines of border security, framing them as heroes dedicated to protecting the nation.
Key Takeaways
-
Personal Commitment: Tom Holman's lifelong dedication to law enforcement and border security is rooted in his small-town upbringing and family legacy.
-
Impact of Policies: Holman credits the Trump administration with restoring order to border security, drastically reducing illegal crossings, and combating human trafficking and drug smuggling.
-
Critique of Current Administration: He strongly criticizes Biden's border policies, attributing increased illegal immigration, deaths, and trafficking to intentional lax measures.
-
Humanitarian Concerns: Holman emphasizes the human cost of illegal immigration, particularly the suffering of women and children subjected to cartel violence.
-
National Security: Concerns about terrorists exploiting weakened border controls underline the importance of rigorous vetting processes.
-
Sanctuary Cities: These jurisdictions are portrayed as significant obstacles to effective border enforcement and public safety.
-
Technological Advancements: Adoption of advanced technologies, including smart walls, buoy barriers, and anti-drone systems, is crucial for modernizing border security.
-
Future Strategies: Continued aggressive measures, international cooperation, and legislative support are essential for maintaining and enhancing border security.
Notable Quotes Summary
-
On Childhood and Values:
"I grew up in an era where police were highly respected and people loved their country. Literally American flags everywhere. It's a great childhood."
— Tom Holman [04:50] -
On Rising Through Ranks:
"I became an ICE director through the ranks, from the bottom to the top. And what I like about that is the 20,000 men and women that work for me, I never asked them to do anything that I didn't do myself because I was one of them."
— Tom Holman [16:03] -
On Personal Trauma and Policy Impact:
"As a father, when I sit down and talk to a little girl who's been raped by a smuggling group, it changes who we are. You never thought a 9-year-old should have to beg for her life."
— Tom Holman [25:15] -
On Securing the Border:
"We now have the most secure border in the history of this nation."
— Tom Holman [57:35] -
On Human Trafficking:
"Half a million children were trafficking in this country, smuggled into the hands of criminal cartels. That's family separation on a massive scale."
— Tom Holman [138:05] -
On Terrorism and Security Threats:
"If we have to go search for you and go through the whole process, haven't you formally deported? There are certain bars placed on you statutorily, anywhere from five to 20 years. They can't stay here."
— Tom Holman [146:00] -
On Sanctuary Cities:
"Sanctuary cities should be illegal. They're knowingly releasing public safety threats back into the community."
— Tom Holman [94:07] -
On Morale Among Agents:
"Morale's at an all-time high because we're getting to do what we're here to do—protect the nation's border."
— Tom Holman [108:04] -
On the Border Wall:
"The wall saves lives by preventing the most vulnerable from making the deadly journey."
— Tom Holman [169:26] -
Final Appeal:
"Secure borders save lives. Every day, our agents are keeping this country safe while facing undue vilification in the media."
— Tom Holman [174:08]
Closing Remarks
Tom Holman's impassioned advocacy for strong border security underscores the critical intersection of national security, humanitarian concerns, and effective law enforcement. His firsthand experiences and unwavering commitment provide a compelling perspective on the complexities of U.S. immigration policy and border management.
For listeners seeking an in-depth understanding of border security and immigration enforcement, this episode offers invaluable insights from a veteran who has been at the forefront of shaping and implementing pivotal policies.