← The Shawn Ryan Show
The Shawn Ryan Show
#212 Katarina Szulc - Inside the Cartels' Secret Smuggling Operation in Port of Vancouver
02:19:34
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- [00:02]
Katerina Schulz
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- [00:50]
Sean Ryan
Katerina Schulz, Sean Ryan, welcome to the show.
- [00:54]
Katerina Schulz
Thank you for having me.
- [00:55]
Sean Ryan
Man, you are getting some like amazing content down there with the cartels and reporting on all that stuff. So I can't remember how I found you. I think it was my producer, Jeremy.
- [01:07]
Katerina Schulz
I'm curious to know what it was that sparked your guys interest.
- [01:10]
Sean Ryan
Yeah, I think my producer found you. And so anyways, we've been tracking you probably for six months maybe.
- [01:16]
Katerina Schulz
Wow.
- [01:17]
Sean Ryan
But love your work.
- [01:19]
Katerina Schulz
Thank you.
- [01:19]
Sean Ryan
How do you get, before we get into the interview, how do you get that much access?
- [01:25]
Katerina Schulz
Everyone, this is my most asked question and there are a few things that I can attribute it to. First, I, I nerd out about this. I've always been interested since a kid and we'll get into that in organized crime and international conflict. And so I try to know about it as much as I can and I think people recognize that. Second, I don't judge. So I have my own, you know, morals and ethics and personal values. But I never let that come across with the people I'm speaking to, whether they're the good guys, the bad guys, or somewhere in between or undecided. And I just wanna hear everyone's story. I just wanna know what's going on. I wanna give people a voice that feel like they don't have one. And then also I'm a 24 year old girl from Canada.
- [02:27]
Sean Ryan
You're only 24?
- [02:28]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah.
- [02:30]
Sean Ryan
Oh my gosh.
- [02:31]
Katerina Schulz
I know I look a lot older, but I'm a 24 year old girl from Canada who wants to talk about what was your reaction to Trump saying that you and your colleagues are terrorists? I'm just curious to know. And a lot of these guys will open up. Keep in mind, I'm typically always and only working with men. So organized crime is dominated by men. And so when I go in, it's Very unalarming. I mean, I don't give off the vibe that I'm going to kill you or rat on you or have some sort of hidden agenda. I just like to hear the stories. I'm genuinely interested and I like to tell them in the most unbiased way possible, the most honest way. And so that has allowed me to gain the trust of a lot of people who have a lot of high level information and are willing to share it with me. And I've, you know, I've put my work in for that because. Because I've spoken to quite a few people over the course of my career who took a risk in sharing information with me, reaching out to me or speaking to me or meeting with me. And I never have ever let their identities been known or given that information to someone who could put their situation at risk. So that's how I think I get access. And I'm a pusher, I attack.
- [03:58]
Sean Ryan
I mean, where did you start though? Why do you think they, why do you think they give you access? There's a lot of people that'll go down there and listen to what they have to say. And plus all those journalists are getting killed down there. I don't know if they're still getting killed, but a couple years ago they were murdering journalists left and right.
- [04:15]
Katerina Schulz
Mexico actually is like one of the top countries for the most murdered journalists and female journalists.
- [04:20]
Sean Ryan
There you go.
- [04:22]
Katerina Schulz
Just check the box.
- [04:24]
Sean Ryan
Yeah.
- [04:27]
Katerina Schulz
Why me? I mean, I push for it. I'm like, let me talk to you. And if they say no, I go and ask someone else or I ask differently. I don't really take no for an answer and I convince them why I'm the right person that they can share this information with or take me along. Whether that's law enforcement or it's organized crime, people.
- [04:45]
Sean Ryan
Why do you think they want to get any of the information out to begin with?
- [04:50]
Katerina Schulz
It's a way to flaunt their power from, flex their muscles, show people, look, I'm doing all of this crime. I basically run Mexico. I run the drug trade and I'm committing violent acts in broad daylight, gruesomely. And I'm giving this information to the press and catch me if you can.
- [05:15]
Sean Ryan
Interesting.
- [05:16]
Katerina Schulz
That's certainly what it is. I think it's an ego thing for sure.
- [05:19]
Sean Ryan
It's a flex.
- [05:19]
Katerina Schulz
It's a flex 100% for some people. It's also kind of like media relations. They put this message out there, an adversary hears or sees it and they're sending a message.
- [05:35]
Sean Ryan
Gotcha yeah. Gotcha. Well, let's get into the interview. Here we go. So Katerina Schulz, a fearless investigative journalist who's gone where few dare, diving headfirst into the heart of Mexico's cartel strongholds like Sinaloa and Jalisco to expose the brutality reality. Excuse me. To expose the brutal reality of organized crime. A bilingual boots on the ground reporter tracking the cartel empire and its influence on North America. Former traditional journalist who realized you needed to get out of the newsroom to find out what's really happening. And you're the author of your popular sub stack, keep people informed on all things cartel related. So thank you for coming in here. And we got a whole slew of topics to cover, but you had mentioned something you'd mentioned you went down. I don't know if it was really happened, but you said you went down to the cartels, some of the cartel members, and asked what they thought about Trump labeling them terrorist organizations. What was their response to that?
- [06:44]
Katerina Schulz
You. Yeah. So I went to a border region where some members of organized crime spoke with me and they're responsible for a significant amount of the trafficking and human smuggling operations. And this was right after Trump had officially declared them FTOs, because there was a lot of rhetoric around this previously, and even Texas Governor Greg Abbott had previously declared them FTOs, but now this was real. And this I had assumed was going to invoke a lot of fear, especially when it came to the financial pipelines, because that's what this act really attacks is the cartel's finances. And that's so much worse than putting a bounty on their family members or stopping the flow of drugs. Like for them, it's the money freezing financial assets, shutting down their shell companies, whatever it is. And so I wanted to know because we were seeing so many headlines of how crazy this is and politicians reacting. Okay, but the guys who are really going to face the brunt of this, what's going on? And so I asked them, you know, what do you think about Trump calling you and the people you work with in your networks terrorists? And how is this going to impact you? And it's so funny because I had anticipated this reaction, but I didn't think they'd actually. We don't care. We're just gonna wait four years. It's not that deep.
- [08:23]
Sean Ryan
Wow. Wow.
- [08:27]
Katerina Schulz
We're not gonna fight them on it. We'll give them what they wanna see. And we are not terrorists because there is a demand for our product. There are drug addicts all across the United States who Want what we have to sell. How are we terrorizing them? We're not. Literally, they're telling me, like, we're not like ISIS or the Taliban bombing innocent people. We just supply a product that there is a demand for. And if this designation means that we have to hold off for a little while in order to protect our networks, that's exactly what we will do.
- [09:05]
Sean Ryan
Interesting. So what do you think? What is the plan then? Are they just gonna. Are they gonna stop? That's kind of what's been happening across the border.
- [09:11]
Katerina Schulz
I mean, fentanyl numbers have been going down, but I don't think that's the plan. The plan is to move operations, and I've been reporting on this extensively. It's all happening in Canada now. No one else is clocking it. And it's so obvious. It started during Trump's first administration when he first started cracking down on the southern border. Cartels knew they could go into Canada and they didn't need a visa. Like they needed to get into the U.S. it was just a regular tourist visa. They didn't need to apply for anything or pay for anything. They could just go get their tourist, like have a regular tourist visa. The way I come to the United States, set up shop, negotiate, and network with pre existing organized crime groups in Canada, whether that be the Hells Angels, a Big One, or Brothers Keepers or Red Scorpion or the United nations gang and say, hey, look, you guys have incredible access, okay, over 5,000 miles of practically unprotected border into the United States. We can produce this product here and traffic it. Not to mention a lot of these pre existing gangs were have large Asian populations. And what do we have in Vancouver, the port of Vancouver. And where are the fentanyl precursors coming in from? China. So you move these precursors, the movement is now is no longer coming into Mexico, it's coming into Canada. You set up shop, you increase profit. You tell all these guys that are already there, hey, look, if you let us Sinaloa or Jalisco in to work with you guys, we're going to quadruple profits.
- [10:47]
Sean Ryan
So wait, you're saying that no more. Are you saying in addition to Mexico produce fentanyl or it's all moved to Canada?
- [10:58]
Katerina Schulz
I think the majority has moved to Canada.
- [11:00]
Sean Ryan
The majority of it's moved to Canada.
- [11:02]
Katerina Schulz
Yes. I am 99% sure about that, because you can never be 100% sure. But I am so sure about that. Last summer I wanted to crack down on this story because I had an individual reach out to me who was an operative for the Sinaloa Cartel working in Canada, running these labs. And he showed me the labs that the Sinaloa Cartel is operating with physically. Yep.
- [11:31]
Sean Ryan
Where are they putting them?
- [11:32]
Katerina Schulz
They're putting them in suburban, sort of. So in. In. They're particularly in the West coast in B.C. and in Alberta, which is like a prairie province. And so there's a lot of farmland, and it's residential. And prior to them, prior to this, it was meth labs that they had running out there. And there would always be, like, a random meth lab explosion in Abbotsford, or, you know, this is like a smaller city. And then these turned into fentanyl labs that were completely under the radar because we also didn't have Canadian law enforcement, like, patrolling these areas to an extent that they would patrol, like, a large city like Vancouver or Toronto. So you're bringing in precursors from the port of Vancouver? Easily, because less than 1% of cargo that comes into the port of Vancouver is actually inspected by authorities.
- [12:24]
Sean Ryan
Or less than. How much?
- [12:25]
Katerina Schulz
Less than 1%.
- [12:26]
Sean Ryan
Less than 1%.
- [12:27]
Katerina Schulz
That is an official number. Yes. So the majority of the cargo that's coming into the port of Vancouver is unmonitored. And you have longshoremen that are on organized crime payroll or turning a blind eye. These precursors are being brought to labs throughout the lower mainland, and they are producing fentanyl there. And it started off as distributing this product throughout Canada, because just like the United States, there has been this insatiable appetite for fentanyl in Canada during the pandemic. More people at one point were dying of fentanyl overdose deaths than from COVID So that was a major health crisis. And then there's this major crackdown at the southern border. You already have cartel operatives established in the north. You have over 5,000 miles of practically unprotected border. You know, it's Greenland, and you can fly across, you can drive your boat across, you can drive your dirt bike across. And that just left it as open field for these members of organized crime to start to bring their operations to the next level by trafficking everything into the United States. And it's important to keep in mind that Canadian law enforcement knows this is happening. Very aware. Has been aware since around 2017.
- [14:16]
Sean Ryan
Oh, this has been happening since 2017.
- [14:18]
Katerina Schulz
It's been happening. Yes. Since Trump's first. So 2016.
- [14:21]
Sean Ryan
Wow.
- [14:21]
Katerina Schulz
It's. This has been, I would say, for the past 10 years. Exactly. Is when cartel operatives from Mexico started to move operations into Canada, and law enforcement knows this is happening. But Canadian law enforcement does not have the resources to crack down on this.
- [14:42]
Sean Ryan
How many precursors are there, do you know?
- [14:44]
Katerina Schulz
No, I don't know how to make fentanyl, but it's fairly simple.
- [14:50]
Sean Ryan
How big are these labs? I mean, when you say a meth lab, that's usually what, like a trailer out in the middle of a field?
- [14:59]
Katerina Schulz
A lot of these are just small, like single occupancy homes.
- [15:03]
Sean Ryan
Okay. That are farmhouse.
- [15:05]
Katerina Schulz
Yes, exactly.
- [15:07]
Sean Ryan
Some of them are buying the farmland.
- [15:09]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah. Or they're renting it from. So a lot of the farmland is owned by certain families and they will rent out these, these plots of land or whatever little house is already on this land. A way that the Canadian authorities crack down on members of organized crime is not through directly charging them with producing or conspiracy to traffic. They will crack down on their. Their ownership of a home, and then they. They no longer have a place to run operations. So that home gets taken away. It's that particular real estate is under investigation along with the people, but operates a little bit differently. And it, it hinders the way that they're able to work. But mentioning the law enforcement is. Even though they know that this is going on, the resources just are not there. And I have a really good source who is with the rcmp. That's Canada's national police force, and he specializes in organized crime. And we talk about that 1% of fentanyl number very frequently because he says, neither my colleagues nor myself believe that number because we have seen so many operations go under the radar, especially when they're working undercover. And I said, well, why isn't there a crackdown then? Why aren't they stopping it? And why is the Canadian government only implementing a fentanyl czar when Trump is telling them to crack down? Not when thousands of people are dying on a monthly basis from fentanyl use. And he explicitly tells me it's because they just don't have the means to do it. They haven't even been able to crack down on local gangland. How are they now supposed to focus on transnational crime organizations? The head of RCMP was asked just recently, how many organized crime groups, individual organized crime groups, do you think are operating in Canada right now? And he responds, it's on video. I don't have a number off the top of my head. I think 4,000. And so the question is clarified. There are 4,000 organized crime groups operating in Canada with their own individual leadership and networks. And the head of the RCMP said, Yes, I would say so around 4,000.
- [17:55]
Sean Ryan
Who do you think the key players are putting these labs in up there? Sinaloa Cartel. Which cartel?
- [18:01]
Katerina Schulz
It's Sinaloa and CJNG. But let me just finish that point about the 4000 because this goes to show the disconnect between Canadian law enforcement in Canada because it's actually 668 individual organized crime groups. That's according to CSIS Canadian version of CIA. So imagine if you have this disconnect where our national police force is just punching pulling out a random number. How are you even supposed to crack down on these people and these groups? But yes, it's mostly Sinaloa and CJNG that are in Canada. I would say now it's likely probably just CJNG simply due to the fact that Sinaloa does not have the power or the numbers to maintain their stronghold and they've entered into an alliance with New Generation Cartel.
- [18:46]
Sean Ryan
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- [21:16]
Katerina Schulz
I think it's a proxy alliance. The Chapitos were pretty obviously losing the fight in this faction war that's been going on in the Sinaloa cartel since El Mayo was brought to the United States. And So I think CJ&G saw this as an opportunity to say, we will back you up, but we gain control over everything. And they are the first cartel in history to have control over every single Mexican state.
- [21:47]
Sean Ryan
Interesting, interesting. You know, back to. My head's jumping around a lot, so.
- [21:52]
Katerina Schulz
Sorry. I do that too.
- [21:54]
Sean Ryan
Back to declaring them terrorist organizations. And they're saying. I mean, I totally understand what they're saying. You know, well, we'll just wait four years and everything will be finished. But I mean, there's another aspect, too. There's, you know, there's always a potential that we send in SOCOM and JSOC units. I mean, do they have any fear of that?
- [22:15]
Katerina Schulz
I asked them about that, and they said that if American special forces lay their feet on Mexican soil, they will fight till the death because they will have nothing to lose. They will put up a fight. Will they win that fight? No. But they won't go down without a fight because that's really. That's all they have. And so if their entire livelihood and their entire business is being attacked, especially by US uniform operators who have every means to just completely squash it, they won't go down like a bitch.
- [22:53]
Sean Ryan
I mean, down to what level, though? You know what I mean?
- [22:58]
Katerina Schulz
I mean, to the very bottom.
- [22:59]
Sean Ryan
To the very bottom.
- [23:00]
Katerina Schulz
Oh, even. Even the local drug dealer. Yes. The guy who's a lookout who's making pennies. When I was in Sinaloa covering this fighting in the fall, there was. The money flow was interrupted for, you know, all levels of people working for the cartels. And so main people who, you know, it's like that necessary job that makes no money are the punteros, the lookouts, the guys on their dirt bikes. Who watch if Mexican forces are coming. You know, they keep the eyes out for whatever's going on. Those guys make the least amount of money. They're making around $500 a month. And when the infighting began and all of this money and resources had to go to. We need to maintain our stronghold and we need to buy arms and stockpile. These punteros were the ones losing out. And so when I was there, once it got dark, I couldn't order Uber eats to my hotel because these guys were stealing the food from the delivery men because they didn't even have enough money to eat. But they were still working for the cartels. They wouldn't say, okay, you know what? Fuck this, I'm gonna go and work in a Walmart where I'm at least gonna make a steady income. It's not great, but I have something to pay for my basic needs. Because at that point, it's not just about the money. It's indoctrination. It's about being a part of something. Feeling powerful, feeling like you've been validated and accepted by the very people who are responsible for. For thousands of deaths and the war on drugs. They're on the FBI's most wanted posters. And I work for that guy.
- [24:47]
Sean Ryan
Hmm. I guess it makes sense.
- [24:51]
Katerina Schulz
I mean, it makes sense to them. We don't have to understand it.
- [24:55]
Sean Ryan
Yeah. Wow. I thought there would be at least a little fear, but doesn't sound like they care at all.
- [25:01]
Katerina Schulz
I don't think they do. And based on what I've been told, whether that's what I was told at the border, whether I go and ask in Sinaloa or Jalisco or Michoacan or Guerrero, the consensus remains the same. And the people in charge are treated like gods. They are absolutely praised as if they are the one and only. I mean, that's why we see all the songs about El Mencho, El Chapo, El Mayo. And you can literally go to Sinaloa and buy narco merch. You know, you got the hat with whoever's face on it. You can even buy like religious regalia that is paying homage to narco leaders.
- [25:47]
Sean Ryan
Jeez.
- [25:48]
Katerina Schulz
And so the people who work for them, praise them. People who don't work for them praise them and want to work for them. So if you're telling this 17 year old kid who has always wanted to be in this lifestyle, you're gonna die for me. And American forces are coming in. He'll stand up. He'll probably shit his pants, but he'll do it. He'll put on face.
- [26:14]
Sean Ryan
How many of these labs do you think have been set up in Canada? Do you have any estimation on that?
- [26:25]
Katerina Schulz
I think. I don't know exactly how many labs are operating in Canada, but the majority of the labs that are in Canada, which is significant because there is certainly a supply. There is no lack of drugs in Canada or the United States. Right. And especially in northern states too, where a lot of these drugs are coming into. I think the majority of them are being run by the cartels. And the interesting thing is you won't really see it in the numbers or in. In police investigations or press releases because they don't keep track of which criminal organizations are operating what, like which labs. So, for example, you will. Someone will be arrested. Three men will be arrested for trafficking arms and drugs. They were arrested in a Surrey home in British Columbia. And we found X amount of drugs, X amount of arms. With this amount of street value, they won't say, oh, you know, they were operating on behalf of the Sinaloa cartel. They will say, we found messages in our investigation that they were operating with Mexican associates. And some people will then subsequently be charged. And there'll be Mexican nationals living in Canada. Those guys are working for the cartels. But Canadian authority doesn't keep track, or at least not publicly, of who is working with exactly which criminal organization. And I think that that also does play a role in allowing the cartels to flourish over there because they can operate so entirely under the radar. I mean, here in the US for the first time a few weeks ago, a woman in El Paso was arrested for. For particularly working as a straw buyer for cjng. And this was the first case of someone in the US with material to be charged as an FTO in Canada. That wouldn't be the case. You wouldn't hear that, oh, she was directly working as an associate with the new generation cartel. But when you bring light to that, especially in a border place like El Paso, then everyone who's doing it is kind of on edge. And then they say, okay, look, hey, we're under a spotlight. But if that's not happening, you continue to operate like there's no spotlight on us. We don't need to worry because there isn't.
- [29:04]
Sean Ryan
Do Canadians know this is happening?
- [29:06]
Katerina Schulz
Well, if they read my reporting, they know now. I mean, Kash Patel, director of the FBI, is now saying it publicly. He just said that they're coming in through the port of Vancouver. They're producing fentanyl. The fentanyl is coming from Canada because They haven't secured the northern border. And when I initially started reporting on this, and I was reaching out to RCMP and reaching out to CSIS and putting out my contact, everyone was telling me, no, you're wrong, this can't be. And RCMP was telling me, we have no evidence to show that local criminal organizations are working directly with cartels. But I met with cartel associates in Canada, showing me the production, telling me how they're doing it. And it goes back to what you asked me. Why are they telling me this? Because they want to show you exactly how they're operating under the radar. They're so tough. And oh yeah, you secured our southern border. Fuck you. We moved to Canada.
- [30:06]
Sean Ryan
How much is one of these labs producing? Do you know that?
- [30:10]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah, like, okay, so one batch will be like $150,000 worth of fentanyl pills.
- [30:15]
Sean Ryan
And how many pills is that?
- [30:19]
Katerina Schulz
It depends, because it depends on the size of the pills. It depends on the strength of what they're. The strength of fentanyl in each pill.
- [30:31]
Sean Ryan
I'm just trying to get an estimation of how much shit is coming through the northern U.S. canadian border. And then how fast do you think this is spreading? I mean, it sounds like right now it's pretty localized in Vancouver, but when's it gonna go more towards the other coast?
- [30:49]
Katerina Schulz
It is in the east coast. It's not at the same level, but it certainly is in the east coast. What I know what's happening for sure in the east coast is a lot of people are being contracted by the cartels to. And not Mexican people. Canadian nationals are being contracted by the cartels to operate as enforcers. A lot of people in Quebec and Ontario.
- [31:14]
Sean Ryan
What do you mean enforcer? What does that mean? It's like a hockey player.
- [31:18]
Katerina Schulz
It's like a.
- [31:19]
Sean Ryan
It protects the hockey team. Right.
- [31:21]
Katerina Schulz
They're protecting the operations.
- [31:23]
Sean Ryan
How? So what are they doing?
- [31:25]
Katerina Schulz
Taking out hits, threatening people. Ensuring that the right individuals are being paid off. Whether that be enforcement at the border so that guns can get across into Canada from the U.S. or fentanyl can go the other way.
- [31:46]
Sean Ryan
How are they getting their people up there? Are they coming up through the U.S. yeah, just keep going north. Or are they flying them in?
- [31:54]
Katerina Schulz
So prior to Canada re implementing the visa requirement, a lot of the Mexican nationals were flying directly into Canada. They completely would bypass the U.S. it was much easier that way because they wouldn't need a visa. Now it's a little bit different now. Some of the operatives who were already based in the US Are moving into Canada okay, yeah. And it's interesting because when I was, I gained access to a few group chats that were run by the cartels on WhatsApp Telegram. WhatsApp is like the starting point. Just because of the way the encryption is set up. They don't wanna talk about too much, but because it is so accessible, it's a great way to hire people, recruit people. And so I gain access to a group chat where they were basically recruiting people to work as enforcers for them, sicarios, you know, managing certain logistics of the business, whether that's paying off authority, finding out who's who, getting the arms, finding the dealers, contracting straw buyers, whatever it may be. When I was in this group chat, the first thing that stood out to me was two of the phone numbers were Canadian area codes. One was Alberta and one was Toronto. And one of the individuals was directly asked if he could take out a hit if need be. He would be paid $55,000 Canadian. He would have to buy a Glock with 3.3Mags, I think it was. I have this screenshot and there could be no kids around. And if he goes to the house, make sure that no family is around of the individual that needs to be killed. And so for a lot of these people, money was put on the table right away. You get into this group chat, whether that means you're going to be moving fentanyl pills into the US Whether that means you may have to take out a hit or pay someone off, conduct, any sort of logistics, it was, this is how much you'll make, take it or leave it. And that was, for a lot of people, that first incentive. Now for a lot of other folks, it was, I'm gonna be a part of the cartel. I. For a lot of these people, they're kind of outcasts and they feel like power. They're like an aggressive person. And a lot of those type of guys who kind of had like a violent past. Boxers were being hired as sicarios. And the way they would be recruited into these group chats was either through social media. So a lot of fake postings or postings on Facebook or TikTok that would allude to what they could become a part of, but also just through knowing someone. Word of mouth.
- [35:05]
Sean Ryan
Interesting.
- [35:07]
Katerina Schulz
Hey, my niece is dating this guy. He's been here from Mexico for around six years. He's making a ton of money. I know you're strapped for cash. Would you, if you get a package and you just have to drive it across the border, go to the Sears Walmart parking lot. Someone's gonna pick it up. Don't look inside and you're gonna get paid $70,000. Just go and come back. People will do it.
- [35:36]
Sean Ryan
Damn. And Canada's not doing. Actually, on the outline, I saw that they are also recruiting from the Balkans.
- [35:42]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah.
- [35:42]
Sean Ryan
Did I see that?
- [35:43]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah. Balkan states, like Armenian guys too. A lot of ex gang members from over there. And in Australia too.
- [35:53]
Sean Ryan
I mean, at this point, they're recruiting from Australia.
- [35:57]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah.
- [35:58]
Sean Ryan
Really?
- [35:58]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah. Australia, England. Like, it seems like there's like this thing with the Commonwealth places is like.
- [36:05]
Sean Ryan
Why are they going to the. I mean, why are they. It sounds like there's no shortage of people that want to join the cartels.
- [36:11]
Katerina Schulz
There isn't. And that's what.
- [36:12]
Sean Ryan
So why are they recruiting out of the Balkans?
- [36:15]
Katerina Schulz
Because they need an international stronghold. And so when you have people who don't look like you, don't talk like you, and come from different training backgrounds, they can fly under the radar a lot better. And they have access to different areas that certain Mexican operatives do not. So say, for example, not that long ago, there was a blatant daylight shooting in Vancouver. A guy was killed and he was shot by a Canadian man from Quebec, super French name. This individual had spent years in Mexico and Colombia and was said to eventually work for the cartel. Go to Canada and take out this hit. Now, how much better is it that you have a Canadian national taking out a hit? He knows where to go, he knows how law enforcement operates. He's from this place, he has access. The. The chances that there's going to be a fuck up are a lot less. And also, if you know that Canadian law enforcement is not directly attacking the cartels when. When an associate who's not Mexican is operating for them, of course you're going to have a foreign person, a Canadian or an Australian or someone from England take out the hit or commit the crime.
- [37:51]
Sean Ryan
Hmm. Yeah. Are they trying to spread into Europe and Armenia and Australia as well? I mean, could that be another reason? Yeah, they're making connections.
- [38:03]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah. And there are already Interpol reports of particularly cgg having activity, having strongholds in Australia, in Western Europe, in Kenya. There was a. People think I'm crazy when I talk about this, but they found a CG&G linked lab in Kenya, in Africa. Wow.
- [38:26]
Sean Ryan
What the hell are they doing over there?
- [38:28]
Katerina Schulz
Producing and trafficking. It's a international operation. And to me it makes sense that they are moving everywhere because it's like what I said, the Catch Me if youf Can.
- [38:41]
Sean Ryan
Yeah. I mean, it makes sense to me with the. I mean, I guess it would in Kenya. I mean, I don't know how many people would be able to afford fentanyl, you know, but.
- [38:52]
Katerina Schulz
But it's not about domestic distribution. It's about that production there and being so far removed from where the Hawkeye View is, which is Canada, US And Mexico, and being able to move the product outwards from there.
- [39:08]
Sean Ryan
You know, the other thing is. I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong by any means.
- [39:11]
Katerina Schulz
It's okay. You care me.
- [39:12]
Sean Ryan
It's. It. It doesn't make sense why they would pay a Canadian 55,000 Canadian dollars to. To put a hit out to assassinate somebody or. Or fly somebody in from the Balkans or Australia when we do know they don't give a shit about their people dying. You know, I mean, we've seen that for years. You know, they give them five minutes of training and send them off to their ward. Yeah, but, you know, and so it's just. It's not very cost effective for them to have to pay that price when they can just send somebody, you know, from a little pueblo that has nothing into Canada, US, anywhere they want.
- [39:56]
Katerina Schulz
You know, it's certainly not cost effective, but I think logistically it works for them. You have a Canadian who's willing to commit these crimes for you on their soil, you completely avoid detection of that cartel.
- [40:14]
Sean Ryan
It does until those people get interrogated. And I mean.
- [40:18]
Katerina Schulz
And they say they've been working with the cartels, and then in the. In the RCMP information, they're saying, well, yeah, this person had connections with Mexican criminals, but Canadian authority isn't going after those criminals who put out the hit.
- [40:39]
Sean Ryan
Man. Would you. Is there any. Anything that Canada has been doing to combat this at all, or they're just trying to sweep it under the rug?
- [40:46]
Katerina Schulz
I think they're sweeping it under the rug. I think since Trump tried to say, we got a crackdown on the northern border, and Kash Patel has been putting a lot of pressure, they've been doing these sort of public things like appointing a fentanyl czar, amping up the amount of border patrol at the northern border. But in terms of really getting to the root of the problem, it's being swept under the rug. And a lot of folks that I've spoken to in Canadian law enforcement agree with that notion.
- [41:16]
Sean Ryan
Interesting.
- [41:16]
Katerina Schulz
And if I speak to any of my sources that are, you know, part of associates with the cartel operating in Canada, they feel like it's business as usual.
- [41:29]
Sean Ryan
Are they infiltrating I mean, how big are they getting into Canada? I mean, like in the US we know they're starting to get involved in politics, local police departments, a lot of them are joining the military to get the training and then get out.
- [41:42]
Katerina Schulz
I don't think that's happening yet. And because I don't think it's necessary, I think that the way that they've set up shop is working for them and they're not going to fix something that isn't broken and risk losing what they have.
- [41:57]
Sean Ryan
Okay. Okay.
- [41:58]
Katerina Schulz
And it's also important to keep in mind that there is evidence and you know, there's all these reports that come out from CSIS about Chinese intervention in Canadian politics and elections. And if the Mexican cartels are already directly working with the Chinese, there's no need for them to go above them and try to get involved with Canadian politics. That's being done for them.
- [42:22]
Sean Ryan
Interesting. All right, let's take a quick break. When we come back, I know I want to talk about some of the other businesses that the cartels are starting to set up outside of fentanyl. You've heard me talk about Patriot Mobile. For a while now they've stood in the gap for Americans who believe that faith, family and freedom are worth fighting for. And they're the real deal. Got cutting edge technology and switching is easy. Keep your number, keep your phone or upgrade. Their 100% US based team can activate you in minutes right over the phone. They're one of the few carriers with access to all three major US Networks. That means exceptional nationwide coverage. They can even put a second number on a different network on the phone. It's like carrying two phones in one. They have unlimited data plans, mobile hotspots, international roaming, Internet on the go devices and home Internet backup. Make the switch today and experience the difference. Go to patriotmobile.com SRS or call 972 Patriot and right now use the promo code SRS for a free month of service. When you sign up, switch to Patriot Mobile and defend freedom with every call and text you make. That's patriotmobile.com SRS or call 972-patriot foreign me for our first ever live stream debrief hosted exclusively on Vigilance Elite Patreon. We'll unpack the China Taiwan conflict, reveal insights from our Dubai trip with GBRS Group's JCAL and break down the Iran Israel conflict's impact on everyday citizens. Stream it for free on July 1, 6pm Central Time on Vigilance Elite Patreon. If you take your health as seriously As I do. You know how important hydration is. That's why I want to tell you about Hoist. Hoist is made in the USA and has three times the electrolytes and half the sugar compared to other sports drinks. With no artificial dyes or preservatives, Hoist is on military bases globally serving warfighters in operations and training. I wish I had had Hoist as an option for hydration during my military career, especially the brand new flavor they just released. Five Star Punch through December 31, 2025. Hoist is donating a minimum of $10,000 to Folds of Honor, a nonprofit organization that provides educational scholarships to family members of fallen service members or first responders. Hoist is now available in all Publix locations. You can use the store locator on their website to find a you or you can purchase directly from drinkhoist.com where you can use my code SRS to save 15% on their website. Go check out their website. That's drinkhoist.com and use my code SRS to save15%. All right, we're back from the break. We're getting ready to dive into, you know, the first diversification of all of the different cartel businesses. So I've talked about this a couple times before. It's been, I think it's been about two years though, since I've covered this topic. But last I heard, they were getting into the avocado trade.
- [45:49]
Katerina Schulz
Yes.
- [45:49]
Sean Ryan
What else are they diving into?
- [45:51]
Katerina Schulz
Okay, crude oil, avocado and agriculture is the big. The biggest ones. So after human smuggling and drug trafficking, the second most profitable form of revenue for the cartels is huachicul, the crude oil theft. This has been going on for forever, and we have seen a lot of mass tragedies due to this. Even though it's not, you know, an illicit substance like fentanyl, the way they tap into these pipelines in a lot of unsecured areas in smaller towns where these pipelines run through, if they tap into it wrong or if they do it time and time again, it leads to a mass explosion. And these headline in Mexico all the time and have been for decades now. What's happening now is actually just a few weeks ago, three CJNG operatives were sanctioned by the US for trafficking stolen crude oil from Mexico into the US and certain smaller American oil companies were buying this oil and they were bringing it into the US Labeled as waste oil. So it was going completely undetected. A lot of it was going into the port of Brownsville in Texas and this for them is a billion dollar business.
- [47:13]
Sean Ryan
Waste oil. What the hell is waste oil?
- [47:16]
Katerina Schulz
They were calling it waste oil.
- [47:19]
Sean Ryan
So the US Is just letting people.
- [47:21]
Katerina Schulz
Import waste oil to dump, apparently, because they were bringing this in in trucks and it was being taken to smaller refineries where then it was known that it was not waste oil, it was actually raw crude oil. And that was giving them around $3 billion a year at one point.
- [47:42]
Sean Ryan
How much money are they making off of this?
- [47:44]
Katerina Schulz
Like billions of dollars. Like $3 billion.
- [47:46]
Sean Ryan
Billions.
- [47:46]
Katerina Schulz
$3 billion a year. $3 billion. There's like 17,000. 17,000 like tankers worth of oil that are being stolen per day in Mexico.
- [47:59]
Sean Ryan
Are you serious? 17,000 tankers a day.
- [48:03]
Katerina Schulz
That's what PEMEX numbers show, which is the Mexican oil company. It has a monopoly. Pemex, wow.
- [48:10]
Sean Ryan
Do you think they'll just try to take. Do you think they'll just try to take control of the pipeline itself?
- [48:15]
Katerina Schulz
They do. That's exactly what they do. And a lot of National Guard and local police are on the cartel payroll so that they can go and tap in these, into these pipelines. And no one's going to say anything actually, just.
- [48:26]
Sean Ryan
Are you talking about actually like tapping into the pipeline?
- [48:29]
Katerina Schulz
Yes.
- [48:29]
Sean Ryan
Or I'm talking about just taking control of the entire pipeline and piping it.
- [48:34]
Katerina Schulz
To where it is. Piping it to the. Oh, okay. Probably not.
- [48:37]
Sean Ryan
Okay.
- [48:38]
Katerina Schulz
That's a whole. I mean it could be happening, but I haven't done any reporting on that. I mean, from what I know and what I've seen is them physically going and tapping into the pipeline and stealing it and putting it into the tanker and driving that across. And just a few days ago, 11 members of the National Guard were arrested because they were caught red handed at a pipeline stealing the oil.
- [49:01]
Sean Ryan
And they're just getting this through the US border?
- [49:04]
Katerina Schulz
Yep.
- [49:04]
Sean Ryan
Just 17,000 tankers a day are coming across the US border.
- [49:09]
Katerina Schulz
I don't know if 17,000 tankers are moving across the border a day, but that's how much is being stolen per day. So it's obviously going somewhere at a certain point in time. And this is major profits for the cartel, especially with this crackdown at the southern border on fentanyl and human smuggling, which is, you know, major financial pipeline for them. Let's go make money off a different pipeline.
- [49:32]
Sean Ryan
I mean, do we import. We don't import any gas from Mexico, do we? Do we? Like legally?
- [49:41]
Katerina Schulz
Legally, yeah. So a lot of the crude oil from Mexico goes to the US and is fined in the US Refined in the US And Mexico buys it back.
- [49:48]
Sean Ryan
So this is relatively easy operation to bust into.
- [49:51]
Katerina Schulz
Mexico doesn't have the refinery. It doesn't have the infrastructure to do it. They buy the gas back.
- [49:57]
Sean Ryan
Okay, so they. So we buy the gas or we refine the gas and then pipe it back into Mexico. Yeah. Interesting.
- [50:05]
Katerina Schulz
That's. That's one that I talk about a lot. Because the problem with this is the. They can do it so under the radar and they're experts at it at this point because it's been going on for so long and there's so much impunity around incorruption. So many people. The right people are paid off. The right people, whether that's politicians, national guard, police, are profiting off of this trade. And so the way to crack down on this is so murky because it's not, you know, you don't have this fentanyl pill that's going to kill someone, and that's a controlled substance. It's oil. And it's something that everybody needs. And if the way to get this oil is by going into these undetected regions where it's just a small town and law enforcement knows what's going on, it's very easy to access for them.
- [51:08]
Sean Ryan
Do you think that this will. I mean, oil and gas is a big business.
- [51:13]
Katerina Schulz
Exactly.
- [51:14]
Sean Ryan
And some of the most powerful people in the world are in. The most powerful people in the world are in oil and gas. And so I guess what I'm asking is, I mean, do your sources believe that the oil and gas sector of their cartel business will overtake fentanyl and drug trafficking?
- [51:39]
Katerina Schulz
If push comes to shove and they really have to rely on something that isn't drugs, they could certainly move all of their operations to oil.
- [51:47]
Sean Ryan
Why wouldn't they just want to anyways? Why? Because money, it seems so much. You think the drug trade is more than the gas trade?
- [51:54]
Katerina Schulz
It is. It's more profitable for them right now.
- [51:56]
Sean Ryan
Or 10 years down the road?
- [51:58]
Katerina Schulz
I don't know. It's very hard to say. And it depends where and how they want to distribute their resources. If they want to fully focus on that, they could make it their number one earner.
- [52:10]
Sean Ryan
I mean, because the only reason I'm asking is from an American aspect. I mean, that doesn't really affect us. That affects oil and gas industry in Mexico.
- [52:23]
Katerina Schulz
Exactly.
- [52:23]
Sean Ryan
That only enhances US Refining.
- [52:28]
Katerina Schulz
Which is why I thought it was interesting when these three CJNG members were sanctioned for importing this stolen crude oil. None of the US Refineries faced Any sanctions or legal action.
- [52:41]
Sean Ryan
Yeah.
- [52:42]
Katerina Schulz
And of course, investigators certainly knew or know which refineries and companies were buying this stolen oil, but nothing happened there on that front. Why? Because this is not killing Americans.
- [52:57]
Sean Ryan
I mean, it's legitimately just not our problem. No, that's. The Mexican government could take care of that.
- [53:03]
Katerina Schulz
Exactly. It's not like the drugs.
- [53:05]
Sean Ryan
What else are they diving into?
- [53:06]
Katerina Schulz
Agriculture. Agriculture has been huge and more than ever before. I mean, the three major points of agriculture where all avocados that you guys eat here and limes that you guys use is coming from Michoacan, Jalisco, Nayarit, and those are CGG strongholds. So what's been happening for the longest time, and particularly now, as they're trying to diversify their revenue streams, cartel operatives are going in to these ranches, these orchards, and telling the farmers who have had these orchards in their families for generations. Because I don't know if you know, but, you know, raising one avocado tree, if it's successful, which is also just difficult within itself, can take up to 15 years. So this takes a lot of dedication to be an avocado farmer. And it's a very profitable fruit. They call it green gold for something. And cartels are going in, armed men will show up and say, listen, you're either going to pay me X percentage of whatever you're profiting off of your avocado exports, or this becomes ours. And a lot of these farmers, they're doing well for themselves, you know, in terms of earning potential in Mexico generally. Right. They're making an honest income. They're working their asses off. The whole family is part of this business. They're employing people from their town, and they're making good money to support themselves. So then you have our men come in, say, either get out or pay me an amount that they typically cannot afford because it's not that much money. And you're saying, now give me 80% of your earnings. How are you supposed to maintain your orchards if you're losing more than half of your income to organized crime? So a lot of these people have to abandon their farms. There are this. Hundreds of avocado orchards, particularly in Michoacan, have been abandoned by their rightful owner. And cartels are now working those orchards, or the very people who own these places are now being employed by the cartel to go and farm the land, work the land. And there are certain produce companies in the US who are knowingly, some not knowingly, but others knowingly purchasing avocados from cartel run Avocado orchards in Mexico. And I reached out to these. I actually had a really significant produce person, someone who worked for the US Government as an inspector before. So the US Sends inspectors to these regions to make sure, you know, for pesticide control, pest control, whatever the case may be, and even for ethics. So is organized crime operating here? And I got in contact with someone who did this job, and I got a list of produce company names that were knowingly. Are knowingly importing avocados and limes from farms that are now run by the cartels, blatantly. And when I reached out to them and said, you know what is your guys due process to ensure that you aren't supporting organized crime? No comment. We don't talk about this. Of course you won't. But wouldn't you want to clear your name? Wouldn't you want to show to the American avocado consumer that those avocados aren't blood fruit?
- [56:49]
Sean Ryan
Yeah, I mean, it sounds. What you're describing sounds really very similar to the diamond trade.
- [56:56]
Katerina Schulz
Of course.
- [56:56]
Sean Ryan
But I mean, with that being said, it's. I mean, how many legitimate avocado farms are there left in Mexico? The only reason I'm asking is Luis Chaparro. I've had him on several times here. And he talked about the avocado trade with the cartels and how super bowl seasons and they'll create a shortage despite the prices and all that kind of stuff. But I mean, so I mean, do these comp. Do these US Based fruit companies, do they have. I mean, do they even have anywhere else to buy this stuff from? Or is it just cartels at this point?
- [57:39]
Katerina Schulz
It's likely just cartels. And the cartels manipulated that because it got to a point when the US Agricultural inspectors were going to Mexico to inspect these farms, then they were being threatened. And so then the US Stopped sending inspectors to these regions, which meant it was a free for all, for the cartels to take over every single orchard that existed there.
- [58:04]
Sean Ryan
Mm. Well, I mean, an inspector isn't gonna stop that. No, but.
- [58:08]
Katerina Schulz
No, that's not even his job. That's not their job.
- [58:10]
Sean Ryan
So is the Mexican government doing anything about this? Nothing at all.
- [58:13]
Katerina Schulz
Okay. They sent in when this. A bunch of farmers banded together because they will do that. You know, they're tough, they're hardworking, and they banded together and said, we can't take this anymore. The cartels are taking over our livelihoods, are taking over our businesses. So Mexican government sent in a couple thousand troops to these regions to try and protect them. But those very troops were getting paid off by the cartel too. They were also being threatened. There were shootouts at these farms. And typically when that happens in Mexico, unfortunately, government backs down.
- [58:50]
Sean Ryan
How about the water trade?
- [58:51]
Katerina Schulz
That's another thing, especially in these same regions, because it's very important for farmers, you know, for the irrigation, but also just for the people living in these regions. They've monopolized water. They monopolized WiFi, even Wi Fi. Wi Fi? Yeah. They put up their own WI fi wires in certain towns in these regions. So you can only purchase from the cartel provider.
- [59:17]
Sean Ryan
No shit.
- [59:17]
Katerina Schulz
They cut the cords from. There's other WI fi providers in Mexico like Izzy, and there's other ones. Right. Of legitimate. And those wires are being cut. The infrastructure is being destroyed. Cartel puts up their own infrastructure. Now you have to only get your WI fi from us.
- [59:37]
Sean Ryan
Wow. So they have communications, they have agriculture, they have oil and gas.
- [59:45]
Katerina Schulz
I mean, it's every single aspect of basic life, every necessity.
- [59:50]
Sean Ryan
I mean, how is the relationship with. What is their relationship like with the Chinese that are piping in all of the precursors to make fentanyl? You had mentioned a lot of them are going to Canada now. But I mean, seems. Just interviewed Tom Holman. You know, the borders are. And he said that the. I believe have to reference the interview, but I believe he said that the southern border is 96.8% secured. Do you. Do you agree with that?
- [60:20]
Katerina Schulz
It's a very high number. And I do believe that the southern border is a lot more secured than it was six months ago. Certainly the price of being smuggled across the border has gone up. Like if you want to pay for a coyote to take you across. Less coyotes are operating because of just the sheer amount of vigilance at the southern border. And U.S. and Mexico numbers both show that fentanyl trafficking has gone down at the southern border. 96% is very high to say it's 96% secured. I mean, how do you even quantify how secure a border is? But in terms of.
- [61:07]
Sean Ryan
I think you do it by the number of people coming across.
- [61:10]
Katerina Schulz
The number of people coming across. Right. But of course, you don't track every single person that's coming across. Has it gone down? Certainly. And numbers on both sides of the border show that. And if you just go to that border, it looks so different than it did six months ago. I mean, you have tons of CBP helicopter patrol constantly. Mexico deployed an additional, I think 12,000 National Guard to secure their side of the border. And the threat of tariffs and US Intervention in Mexico really did push Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum to act on the southern border because she didn't want to see a Mexico where there was American intervention. She wanted to maintain autonomy. Fair enough.
- [61:59]
Sean Ryan
Why don't you think she wants any intervention?
- [62:02]
Katerina Schulz
Because she wants Mexico to stay Mexico. She doesn't want to see American forces coming in. She doesn't want Mexican people to feel like their own government can't deal with it by themselves. And. And don't they already feel like that 100%? But you can admit a loss. Another point to that is to protect people who are in her administration who have narco ties.
- [62:25]
Sean Ryan
Does she have narco ties?
- [62:28]
Katerina Schulz
100%?
- [62:29]
Sean Ryan
100%.
- [62:30]
Katerina Schulz
I believe she definitely has narco ties.
- [62:32]
Sean Ryan
What makes you believe that?
- [62:34]
Katerina Schulz
She's with the Morena party. So many political figures in this party have now just recently been sanctioned by the us had their visas revoked by the us, have been tied to shell companies in the US that are cleaning money for the cartels. This was the most violent Mexican election in the history of Mexican elections. Why were people dying at the polls? Why were armed men showing up to voting stations and destroying the ballots and the ballot boxes? And then prior to her, Andres Manuel Lopez Vrador, the previous president of Mexico, who basically took Sheinbaum and put her up and said, everyone who voted for me, vote for her. And she won by a landslide. No one has ever voted by that margin in a Mexican federal election. Ever before, he had been reported to have received a significant multimillion dollar payout from the Sinaloa cartel.
- [63:36]
Sean Ryan
Wow.
- [63:37]
Katerina Schulz
So if you have this party that just has so many rotten apples, you're telling me it's not spoiling the bunch and that the main figurehead of this party, the president of Mexico, who could, if she really wanted to, say, fuck the cartels, we're ending them. Everyone is suffering on both sides of the border and globally, okay, we are going to crack down. And that's not really happening. It's a soft stance. It's certainly not as soft as her predecessor. His moral or his slogan was abrazos no balazos. Hugs not bullets. She didn't take that on, which I think was great, because. What do you mean you're gonna. You know, it just didn't. It made no sense. But do I think she has narcotics? Yeah. And people come for me a lot when I say that, because they say, like, you're just shitting on a president who cares about the Mexican people. I think if she really cared about the Mexican people, the cartel crackdown would be to the next level.
- [64:39]
Sean Ryan
I think if she really cared about the Mexican people, it would be a positive to get the US in there to help solve this problem.
- [64:47]
Katerina Schulz
And then the US has this watch list of narco politicians. I source from your government actually gave me a few names. I published that list. And then exactly a month later, one of the people that I had on that list, which was the governor of Baja California, Marina del Pilar. Her US tourist visa and her husband's were revoked, and there was no reason given as to why, but there's certainly an investigation going. She's also part of the Morena Party. And then the governor of Sinaloa, Ruben Rochamoya, who, you know, a lot of people have. A lot of people who seek the truth, have beef with him because he has been a part of a lot of shady dealings. And how is your state going to erupt into this war zone where the cartels basically control and every aspect of politics, law enforcement and daily life for the citizens, and yet you're sitting high and mighty as if nothing is happening. Everything is okay. Everything is okay. And the U.S. names him. And the president of Mexico goes up in public in her morning press conferences and defends him, says, no, no, no, he's doing his job. And honestly, wow, wow. And look, people can say all they want. Well, maybe she doesn't directly have ties with narcos. Okay, but if she's defending the very people who do who are under her administration, does that not make you just as guilty? I mean, tell me about your integrity and your responsibility to protect the citizens of the country and ensure that they have a solid quality of life while protecting the very people who are ruining that.
- [66:45]
Sean Ryan
Have you heard of. I've heard a lot of rumors that former SOCOM and JSOC special operators are going down and training cartel veterans. Have you heard that?
- [67:00]
Katerina Schulz
Like, not part of the Green Beret program? Because there is a program the US does train Mexican military and then they kind of form their own.
- [67:12]
Sean Ryan
Yeah, no, I'm talking about guys that have separated from the military that are.
- [67:17]
Katerina Schulz
Going down there and directly training cartels. Yes, yes.
- [67:22]
Sean Ryan
How much of that is going on?
- [67:24]
Katerina Schulz
If you go to Tamaulipas right now, it borders Texas and Mexico, There are cartel operatives who can expertly show you how to arm. You know, put together arm and put a minigun on top of a vehicle and use it like an expert. And that isn't common knowledge, and that isn't something that, you know, like guerrilla warfare teaches you. These people are directly being taught by us ex military, I've heard. And we were talking about this on the way here. Israelis, people who know how to use high level arms and know a fair bit about high level warfare tactics. If the cartels weren't trained by these very people, they would not be able to function at the level that they are.
- [68:27]
Sean Ryan
Do you have any sources that have told you that former SOF guys are heading down there to train?
- [68:33]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah. Particularly in Mexican states that border Texas. There are cartel operatives in Tamaulipas who will blatantly say, the gringo taught us this or do it the way the gringos do it.
- [68:51]
Sean Ryan
Well, that's terrifying.
- [68:53]
Katerina Schulz
And that has to do not only like with the miniguns, but the IEDs that they have. They, they are, their IEDs now are just next level drone operations. They're using drones that. Now initially they were attaching bombs, IEDs to, to the drones, flying them in, and then the whole contraption would blow up. Now they're doing it in a way where the drone goes in, it drops the IED and then the drone goes back out. And they're, they're saving a lot of technology by doing this. Right. And it's making it, it's fast tracking the operation. They were taught by Americans.
- [69:31]
Sean Ryan
They were taught by Americans how to do that too.
- [69:33]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah. And with the anti drone technology that came from overseas. Well, that came from abroad.
- [69:39]
Sean Ryan
They have anti drone technology. What kind of anti they have?
- [69:43]
Katerina Schulz
So I actually, I wish I could show you the video of it. They have like the big drone blockers. So if there is a drone flying in the area, they can completely disable that drone and make it, have it cease to function.
- [69:56]
Sean Ryan
Wow. What other kind of tech are they? That's where I wanted to lead into. You know, warfare is changing in a astronomical basis.
- [70:04]
Katerina Schulz
They're at a point in their warfare where they've never had this level of access before and expertise. They have technology that you would never have imagined cartels to have. I mean, with the amount of money and access they have to certain people and expertise, certainly they can do this. They can learn how to operate anti drone technology, how to use drones multiple times and drop IEDs, how to set up a minigun. But they're also, you know, they're using technology that, it's not typical warfare technology. So even in certain regions they have like cell phone blockers, but just set up throughout the town too. So you walk in and all of a sudden either your phone doesn't work or it's immediately tapped. Even the way they're Putting Pegasus on people's phones.
- [71:01]
Sean Ryan
They're putting Pegasus on people's phones.
- [71:03]
Katerina Schulz
Oh, Mexico. And particularly Mexican journalists. It's like you are the number one victim of having Pegasus on your phone.
- [71:09]
Sean Ryan
No kidding.
- [71:09]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah, they got Pegasus from Israel.
- [71:12]
Sean Ryan
You wanna talk about Pegasus real quick?
- [71:14]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah, we can talk about. Yeah, Pegasus. It's like the number one phone hacking technology, and it doesn't take anything at all. It's literally. I get a message on WhatsApp if I just press on that contact that sent me the message, pegasus is now in my phone and they have access to everything, all of the data, even the metadata that's in my phone and can track me, can listen in to me, everything. And just recently, actually, the Mexican president's phone was hacked. It was a phone that she said she never used, and it was just like a personal phone. But if you're able to hack the president's phone, anyone is at risk. And Mexico is a main consumer or user of Pegasus technology.
- [72:04]
Sean Ryan
Who are they deploying all this stuff against? Is it cartel on cartel? For the most part, no.
- [72:10]
Katerina Schulz
It's anyone that threatens their operations. So, of course, yes, they're cartel adversaries, but politicians, law enforcement, journalists even, sometimes people who are working for them, their own straw buyers, people who they feel like they can't fully trust. Steve, Frosty put some Pegasus on his phone.
- [72:33]
Sean Ryan
What about the drones?
- [72:36]
Katerina Schulz
What about the drones?
- [72:37]
Sean Ryan
Who are they deploying that on?
- [72:38]
Katerina Schulz
They're deploying the drones against Mexican forces. If there is an operation that's going down, they know Mexican forces are gonna be in this area. They will even trap them. So lead Mexican forces, this happened not so long ago. An example of this, lead Mexican forces to believe that a key figure is here or a key lab is here, and they will arm that location with IEDs and have drones ready to go in there. Mexican forces will get there and they get exploded.
- [73:12]
Sean Ryan
Okay, so they hit them with IEDs and then do a drone swarm.
- [73:15]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah.
- [73:16]
Sean Ryan
How big are the drone swarms? Any idea?
- [73:19]
Katerina Schulz
It really depends on which cartel is operating this, but for the most part, they're not that large. They have just like, even. Just like regular drones. They're using even the DJI drones, or they're getting the drones from China that are like a knockoff version and attaching bombs to it and just dropping those in.
- [73:38]
Sean Ryan
Mm. Mm.
- [73:40]
Katerina Schulz
And you'll even see videos of when they're flying. They're kind of weighed down a bit.
- [73:43]
Sean Ryan
So nothing like a hundred drones coming all at once? Like some.
- [73:47]
Katerina Schulz
No, it's not to that extent, at least not yet.
- [73:50]
Sean Ryan
How far out do you think we are before that starts happening?
- [73:55]
Katerina Schulz
It depends if. If the US puts boots on the ground in Mexico because I don't think Mexican forces will ever push it to a point where cartels feel like that's how hard they need to hit them.
- [74:05]
Sean Ryan
You don't?
- [74:06]
Katerina Schulz
No.
- [74:06]
Sean Ryan
You don't think so?
- [74:07]
Katerina Schulz
No. There's too much at risk and there's too much for them to lose. I think, you know something that really stood out to me.
- [74:17]
Sean Ryan
What's the risk? What do you mean? There's too much for them to lose.
- [74:20]
Katerina Schulz
For Mexican special forces to be at risk of danger. I was gonna say when I was in Sinaloa, they had just. The day that I got there, we went to the base and they had just brought in reinforcements for National Guard. And a lot of the people were very young and they were literally coming into a place where they were ready to face the cartels head on. I mean, every night it was just like you would just see the fireworks, the shootouts in the morning, there would be dead bodies lining major highways with notes, sending messages. And so these guys were coming in knowing that they had to take on a very desperate cartel head on and try to stop some extreme level of violence with very little experience. They were very young and some of them looked so nervous and even fearful to be there. And if there is that level of fear, then when you ask me, are these guys going to go in and take them head on to a point where the cartels will completely amp up and you have a hundred drone swarms going in there and just taking out Mexican forces? No, because I don't think the Mexican forces would get to that level. I mean, hugs, not bullets was a policy for so long that now to switch that up and go have the pendulum swing to the exact opposite where it's like, no, we are going to take them on. I don't think the people who are in the forces, you know, I don't want to undermine it and I don't mean it like this, but I don't think the training and the morale is even there to be like, I'm going in to die for this. We're taking these guys out. So no, Mexican cartels won't likely unless US forces come into Mexico get to a level where they believe they have to completely amp up operations, where it's like Ukraine, Russia style, simply due to the fact that Mexican forces aren't going to push them to that level.
- [76:32]
Sean Ryan
So you don't think that they're proactive enough to start to stock up on Drones, start getting 3D printers and printing their own drones and all of these things?
- [76:40]
Katerina Schulz
Proactive, yes.
- [76:41]
Sean Ryan
Or if U.S. forces do come in 100%, you don't think they'll deploy them though? Unless. Unless.
- [76:47]
Katerina Schulz
Unless US steps in. Interesting, because they won't have a need to. But are they Proactively stocking up? 100%? Yes. And I've been told about this from the very people in charge of ensuring that they are armed.
- [77:00]
Sean Ryan
Do they have strategic locations where they're stocking up? I mean, and in. I mean, since you're saying that they are proactive, do they have strategic locations where they're stocking up on. On tech, weapons, all this kind of stuff? Do they, do they know what do they think they might know what it might look like, where the fight's gonna begin?
- [77:20]
Katerina Schulz
Yes. Okay. First and foremost, there are safe houses throughout all of Mexico where they're stocking up on this. And particularly, surprisingly enough, in a lot of tourist destinations because it's easy access. A lot of these place have water access. It goes under the radar. So Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco, these are cities that the cartel is using to their advantage to stock up. And because they already have a lot of operations going on there, and because they know that those areas won't be hit as a war zone because they're tourist hotspots. So Mexico will never wanna scare away the tourism sector. So if they have a safe house in a place like Puerto Vallarta, which is also the CJ stronghold, filled with arms, filled with tech drones, 3D printers, you name it, they can get there, they can get the access, they can get someone to bring it out to them and it won't be a problem. Now, in terms of the places that would be hit, like say US operators stepped into Mexico, again, it won't be those particular regions. It will be Sinaloa, it will be Culiacan, it will be Michoacan, it will be Guerrero, it will be Tamaulipas. Areas where Veracruz. And there's a port in Veracruz.
- [78:49]
Sean Ryan
You're saying that's where we would deploy? Yes, I think that's probably where we would deploy conventional guys if we did that. But as far as strategic strikes, when you bring in tier one units, I mean, those guys are gonna go everywhere. They don't. It doesn't matter.
- [79:05]
Katerina Schulz
I agree. And I think that the cartels certainly know that they're bracing for it. A lot of them are worried that that's going to happen. If it hasn't already, there's some level of American intervention in Mexico. I mean, we've seen it with the CIA planes that are flying. They obviously have Mexican permission to do that, but there's CIA planes flying across the northern Mexican states. The US is certainly gathering intel and they're working bilaterally with Mexico. How long will that last or how far is that going? Not to the point that Mexico would like to see, but the US knows that they have to withhold some information and a lot of intelligence in order for their operations not to fail. Because the one wrong person finds out about it, whether that's in government, whether that's in Mexican intelligence, and the whole operation goes to shit. Even with El Chapo's family going into Tijuana or going across the border and receiving a sort of safe haven in the U.S. mexico didn't know about that. Mexico hasn't received information on that. And the head of national security for Mexico made a point to say, we aren't in the loop with this.
- [80:27]
Sean Ryan
How do you think we defeat him? I'm just curious, have you thought about that all?
- [80:31]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah, I think about that all the time. All the time. And people ask me that all the time. And people ask that because they want to see it happen. But how does that happen? It would be a multifaceted approach, like there is no silver bullet. We both know this. And it's very complicated because they're so. They have their claws so enthralled in every aspect, you know, whether it's the ways that they're diversifying their revenue in oil and gas and whatever it is, but also in politics and internationally. So to defeat this Fortune 500 corporation that's armed to the max and is always a step ahead, it would be a matter of cracking down on extreme intelligence gathering, finding out where the main guys are, dismantling them and their local networks, dismantling their online propaganda projects, tackling the people particularly who are under the radar and in charge of laundering a lot of the money, setting up the shell companies, the remittance sites that are allowing these cartels ways to launder their money internationally, the banks, it goes so deep, it wouldn't just be a matter of go get the big guy. Like when they got El Mayo this summer, you have to tackle the finances.
- [82:11]
Sean Ryan
Yeah, I think a lot about this. I mean, I don't think, you know, we just did that for 20 years in the war on terror, you know, taking out leaders. I think the number two had like a two week life expectancy. But every time you take one out, it's new ones in, new ones in. And so I don't think taking out just the leadership would work.
- [82:29]
Katerina Schulz
What do you think needs to happen?
- [82:31]
Sean Ryan
You know, I don't know. I mean, if we infiltrate it, it would be extremely bloody just because of the amount of people that are involved in the cartel. It wouldn't work if you just took out the leadership. You know, just from the years of covering this, you know, here and there and throughout with the different people that I've had on, I think that the way to do it would be. And I don't know, like I said, it's been a minute since I've talked about this, but I don't know how combative the cartels are towards each other anymore. But I think what I would do is I would probably create some type of a psychological operation that pits the cartels against each other and basically create a false narrative so that this cartel and this cartel hate each other and they go to war with each other and then find ways to intervene. And you know what I mean?
- [83:29]
Katerina Schulz
Well, that's basically what's happening in Sinaloa.
- [83:31]
Sean Ryan
Is that what's happening there?
- [83:32]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah. I mean, El Mayo was brought to the U.S. kidnapped, allegedly. And now we're in real time watching the fall of the Sinaloa cartel just from pulling him. Yep.
- [83:44]
Sean Ryan
Well, then maybe he'll.
- [83:45]
Katerina Schulz
El Chapo was gone. Now El Mayo is gone, and the infighting began. And just like a house of cards, it's falling in on itself. But to the same point, CJ&G swoops in, says, we will make an alliance, Chapitos and us, which, you know, how real can that alliance be when they've been sworn enemies? And what's essentially gonna happen is CJNG is going to take over that faction and take over Sinaloa. So great what your suggestion was. Work to completely dismantle the Sinaloa cartel that has been operating for forever and was at one point, one of the largest cartels in Mexican history. But now we have CJ And G. So what, you do the same thing with them?
- [84:34]
Sean Ryan
Yeah.
- [84:35]
Katerina Schulz
And it just keeps going on and on until they're done. But the supply and demand for drugs.
- [84:41]
Sean Ryan
I mean, how many cartel members were eliminated, you know, in that scuffle between those.
- [84:48]
Katerina Schulz
Oh, at this point, hundreds. That were operating with the Sinaloa cartel. People of importance. Yeah.
- [85:01]
Sean Ryan
Dead man doesn't have to be people of importance. I mean, there's also a psychological factor as well where maybe these weren't as brutal as they are. Now.
- [85:13]
Katerina Schulz
I mean.
- [85:14]
Sean Ryan
Or I could be one of the people.
- [85:16]
Katerina Schulz
Enough people were eliminated for this cartel to not be functioning basically, at this point.
- [85:22]
Sean Ryan
Mm.
- [85:23]
Katerina Schulz
And for them to have to strike a deal with an enemy cartel, an adversary.
- [85:28]
Sean Ryan
How many big ones are there cartels in Mexico? How many big ones? Okay, well, who are the three? The top three?
- [85:36]
Katerina Schulz
I would say the top three. C.J. and G, the Gulf Cartel, Cartel Del Noreste, and, well, Sinaloa. I'll keep it still there, so.
- [85:46]
Sean Ryan
And they're. And they're crumbling. Sinaloa.
- [85:48]
Katerina Schulz
Sinaloa is crumbling. Yeah. That's why I didn't put it in top three. But it would certainly be in top three. And I think the US Designated eight of them, if I'm not mistaking, as foreign terrorist organizations, which included all those I mentioned and a few more. But, for example, there were certain factions of cartels or fragmented versions of cartels that were not on that list. And when you have fragmented groups of a previously stronghold cartel still existing, those groups end up attaching on to a larger cartel that's operating. And it just makes them stronger because they gain more territory, they gain access to more people, more guns.
- [86:35]
Sean Ryan
What do you think happens if we go to China and we're able to stop the precursors from being shipped?
- [86:41]
Katerina Schulz
It doesn't matter, because the Sinaloa cartel is. Now. It just came out a few months ago. Is taking chemistry students from universities in Sinaloa and having them try to figure out how to make the precursors. I don't know. We'll have to wait and see. I have a feeling that there's probably batches out on the streets, or they're preparing batches that have these homemade precursors. Now. We'll see if it works. It's just like what happened with fentanyl. You have to see what happens with the streets. But from what I can tell, and the people in Sinaloa that I've spoken to, they're still yet to make those precursors tangible enough to actually make the fentanyl from them. But they're already trying to cut out China.
- [87:28]
Sean Ryan
They're trying to cut China out?
- [87:29]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah, by making the precursors.
- [87:32]
Sean Ryan
That's why they're doing it. They want to cut China.
- [87:34]
Katerina Schulz
Cut China out, increase your profits, cut out that middleman. Not even a middleman, because they're supplying the necessary goods to produce this deadly drug. But once the cartels figure out how to make the precursors, fentanyl will become more accessible than ever before, more deadly than ever before. And I think the US certainly knows that the cartels are trying to make the precursors, which is definitely a big part of the reason of the crackdown.
- [88:06]
Sean Ryan
I mean, it seems like they wouldn't want to cut China out.
- [88:09]
Katerina Schulz
Why not?
- [88:10]
Sean Ryan
Just because. I mean, even though they don't have the same goals, I think the cartel is money and China is the reverse opium war. You know, I mean, they serve each other well, I guess, is what I'm saying. And so that's interesting that they want to cut them out. I would think that they want to align more, but I don't think it.
- [88:31]
Katerina Schulz
Would be a they would cut them out in a way where it ends on bad terms, but rather it would just streamline the fentanyl production. Would they still probably bring in some of the precursors? Yeah, supplement the supply. But it won't be to the same extent. And it wouldn't end with a bad taste in anyone's mouth because certainly they leverage a good relationship with China.
- [88:55]
Sean Ryan
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- [91:52]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah. So Valeria was a famous influencer in Mexico. She had that buchona look, which is, you know, the body, small waist, you know, curves, long blonde hair from Guadalajara. And Guadalajara is a hotspot. It's the CJ&G, you know, birthplace, Jalisco. And so a lot of people followed her because she was pretty, but also because she was always on live streaming, keeping it pretty real. She would just eat her favorite snacks on there. And actually, since she was murdered, people in her memory have been buying her favorite snacks and posting about it to keep her alive. Now she's on this live stream and she's at her beauty salon that she owned. And she tells the audience that she's been told she's receiving three gifts that day, and the last one is going to be an expensive gift. And so she's kind of talking through. She's excited. And a friend of hers is also at the salon with her. And first she gets a Starbucks. A delivery man comes by, drops a Starbucks. And I think at that same delivery, she got a plushie of a pig. And it's so interesting because in Mexico, too, like, a pig or a pig's head is really significant. You know, it's like Puerco. So you get a lot of the times, too people will. In Guadalajara, even when people take out hits, they'll leave a pig's head on top of that person, show that person was dirty or vile, whatever the message it may be. And she got that plushie, and then she gets flowers. And then she's waiting for her third most expensive gift, and she starts Saying in the livestream, she goes, ya me ondie. Like, I'm creeped out, something's wrong. And you can tell she's kind of on edge. And she says, you know what, girls? I think I'm gonna go. I'm kinda creeped out. And her friend tells her behind the camera, no, you can't go. There's another gift coming for you. And some context to this is that Valeria had received gifts from viewers before. She really liked gifts. And she would talk about how she would date men who would give her extravagant gifts and. And a lot of viewers would send her things. And someone comments in the chat, you shouldn't tell people where you are. And she says, well, you know, everyone knows that this is my salon. Something along those lines. And then a delivery man comes, she's looking out, and she mutes the live. And then you just see her take three bullets. And the first bullet. I've watched this video so many times at this point, she's wearing like a chain necklace. And the first bullet, because people were saying it was fake and that it didn't look like the bullet even hit her. But the first bullet hits her necklace, and her necklace goes flying off, it hits the pendant, the whole necklace goes flying off. She gets shot again, and then she gets shot in the head, and she's like slumped over and her hair is covering her whole face. So the video is really jarring because you're seeing a woman get murdered on live, being shot three times, but it's not like this cinematic boom, boom, boom, and she's all bludgeoned and she just kind of slumps in and she's holding the pig plushie too dead. And the friend comes over, picks up the phone and turns off the live stream. And people were saying, you know, you didn't hear screaming, but it's important to keep in mind she muted the live. Why did she mute the live? If she was so scared, why didn't she leave? She already had that feeling. And so people are saying that the friend set her up or that her ex boyfriend, who is allegedly part of organized crime, I want to say, like, objectively just an unattractive guy, especially for a girl who was. She was very beautiful. She had a very striking look. They say he was responsible for it. But the interesting thing is, you know, where is the forensics in Mexico and investigation. She was murdered now, like weeks ago at this point, and nobody has come out to say who the main suspects are, what the state of the investigation is. And this became international news because there's this beautiful girl being murdered on TikTok live stream and people interacting with her as she's talking about being scared. People in the comments were even saying to her, if you feel weirded out or uncomfortable, just go home. I mean, if this was a hit that was planned on her, then it would have happened no matter where she was. Then you have a lot of conspiracy theorists or people conspiracies going around saying that she didn't actually die, she was probably being threatened and so she faked her death on live and that it was AI and it doesn't. The way the blood splatters on the table and the way she falls over holding the plushie, it just doesn't look like someone who had been shot, shot three times. So this, though, the murder speaks volumes to the state of Mexico, like the entire country, because over the past couple of months, a lot of YouTubers and social media influencers have fallen victim to being publicly murdered like this. Whether they have narco ties or not is one thing, but this is certainly sending a message. If you do not do what we say or follow our agenda, especially with the large platform you have, or you do us dirty, you're dead. And, you know, the problem too, with this being so publicized is there's a lot of false information that's coming out and a lot of false theories that people are taking and running with as if it's fact. So. And then people are also editing fake videos of her. I saw one video of her and it's very hard to tell if it's real or not, where she's got a song in the background and she's kind of like lip syncing it. And the caption on the video is like basically to the gist of, you know, use men for what they can give you, enjoy the benefits of it, but, you know, basically like have multiple guys who can give you nice things and don't get attached. And people were saying, you know, she was a gold digger who messed with the wrong person and she got her karma, which at the end of the day, someone was murdered. So it's really fucked up to say that even if this isn't a perfect victim to you, but it's also hard to tell what is real and what isn't about her because it's such a publicized case, she had such a large platform on social media and there doesn't seem to be much transparency with her investigation.
- [99:42]
Sean Ryan
Why do you think she was murdered?
- [99:44]
Katerina Schulz
One of two reasons. So I have two theories. I think the one that sticks out to me, the most is she was probably dating the wrong guys. She. She didn't grow up wealthy. She came from very humble beginnings. And I think that, you know, she's a beautiful girl. And she used that to her advantage, dated guys who were cartel associates, part of organized crime. And she pissed someone off. She had already posted previously on her Instagram, screenshots of messages with a boyfriend where he was threatening to kill her and said, you've never seen me mad and you don't wanna see me mad, but you're gonna force me to do something I don't wanna do. And she posted and said, if something happens to me or my family, it's this guy. So that's what I think happened, is that she broke up with a guy who had a very fragile ego, or she did him dirty in some way in terms of their relationship, and he sought revenge and he did it publicly to send a message. It makes sense to do it on live. This is what happens. If you're gonna fuck with me or make a fool of me, you die. And the way that the message was set up, you know, getting the pig plushie, three gifts, and then the last one is the most expensive and you get three bullets that's. It's looks like a narco hit. But then there is that other part of me that maybe wonders, you know, maybe, maybe that so called friend wasn't actually a friend because I talked to my best friend about it and I said, what would you do if we were just sitting there and I got shot? Because, you know, especially with this job, I run the risk. And she said I would freak out. And she goes, I don't think that I would even have the capacity to think about picking up your phone and turning off the live and, and then attending to you. The first thing would be to attend to the person. But that's purely speculation.
- [101:55]
Sean Ryan
Was the shooter on video?
- [101:57]
Katerina Schulz
There is CCTV video of a, of a guy coming up on a motorcycle outside.
- [102:02]
Sean Ryan
On the live stream though?
- [102:03]
Katerina Schulz
No.
- [102:04]
Sean Ryan
So the live stream, she shut it off before that. I mean, he was probably wearing a mask, but maybe she shut it off before that reveal happened.
- [102:12]
Katerina Schulz
Well, yeah, because the phone is facing her and she's, she's facing the window. So you can see when she's receiving these gifts, or you can see when she sees someone comes up to give her a gift and her friend was on the other side in the salon.
- [102:27]
Sean Ryan
Gotcha.
- [102:28]
Katerina Schulz
And then some people are saying, well, if you look at where the bullets came from, they didn't come from in Front. They came from the side, and the friend probably took that moment to shoot her. But this also happens a lot in Mexico. I mean, anywhere, you know, the pretty girl gets killed. It's like the Gabby Petito case. It becomes this huge debacle, and there's so many theories, but in Mexico, it's particularly distinct because there is also that element of organized crime and corruption and lack of oversight in investigations. And so something like this happens, and people want justice. Are you gonna get that justice? It depends on who the perpetrator is.
- [103:12]
Sean Ryan
Mm. Mm. How about propaganda? How are they recruiting? What are they using?
- [103:21]
Katerina Schulz
Propaganda, I would say. You know, it's funny because you asked me, how do you tackle the cartels in this whole issue? I think propaganda based on what I've seen is one of the major components that needs to be tackled first. And we're nowhere near there, because propaganda at this point, cartel propaganda is deeply entrenched in every aspect of Mexican culture, society, and daily life.
- [103:47]
Sean Ryan
How so?
- [103:48]
Katerina Schulz
So first things first. The music, okay, you have these narcorridos, songs that are literally dedicated to certain capos or certain cartels, and they are fully, blatantly glamorizing this lifestyle. The singers are, you know, whether it's Peso, Pluma, Junior Ache, Nathanel, Cano, there's so many of them. The list goes on. But they're super popular. They top charts in Mexico and in the United States, too. In their music videos, they have the Rolex, presidential, whole Gucci outfit, and they're singing about, you know, they're strapped up with the scar, and they drive the cars around that are fully armored. They get their money, they're selling the merchandise, and they make this life seem so enticing. You have so much money. You have all these hot girls. You have all of them, everything that's trendy, and you have a great beat to accompany it. Because I must say, sometimes I listen to these songs too, and I'm like, this is great. This is a great song. But the narrative it's pushing is absolutely horrible. And so the Mexican government has tried to crack down on this. I mean, corridos have been banned in Sinaloa for a while, and a lot of other states have banned this music genre in public places, at establishments, at concerts. Actually, a lot of Mexican musicians are now being sanctioned and having their visas revoked by the US for their lyrics, what they're singing, because it so explicitly promotes cartel propaganda. And the Mexican government plays their role, and the federal government actually just put out this initiative. But Mexico, Canta, Mexico Sings to encourage people to participate in, like, this, basically a competition where you can play music, you have a band or sing a song, original singer, songwriter, whatever it is. But that has nothing to do with cartels or narco propaganda. And the interesting thing is, when the Mexican government talks about this genre of music, they particularly focus on violence against women, violent acts, and drug trafficking. What they're missing, that is the key point is, hey, young people, this is propaganda. This life is actually not as cool as these songs are making them seem to be. This is how you die. This is how you end up like Valeria. You want to be that pretty girl with a rich guy on your side. Yeah, well, guess what? He might kill you afterwards. And a lot of these young people in Mexico certainly fall for it, and I don't blame them. You're being inundated with this music, these TV shows, this culture that's promoting a lifestyle that on the surface seems so luxurious. Wouldn't you want to have the extra cash, too? You're growing up in a place where both of your parents are working very hard, and, you know, maybe you can't even afford your schooling, but Buddy on the radio is telling you that you could pick up your parents in a G wagon. You just have to take part of this lifestyle. And so the propaganda is deep in the pop culture. On the other hand, you have blatant forms of propaganda through social media, which now has exploded for them, I mean, it's. Social media is a major tool for the cartels. And Mexico has also tried to crack down on this. They're constantly banning TikTok accounts that are promoting cartel propaganda or trying to recruit people.
- [107:55]
Sean Ryan
What does that propaganda look like? What Is it on TikTok? Yeah. Is it the same stuff? Luxurious lifestyle, lots of flashy shit, money?
- [108:05]
Katerina Schulz
It's the flashy shit, but it's also the actual operations. You'll have a good song. And they're showing them loading up kilos into a light aircraft and flying it across Pablo Escobar style. They kind of switch the aesthetic based on whichever platform they're on and who they're trying to appeal to.
- [108:23]
Sean Ryan
Gotcha.
- [108:24]
Katerina Schulz
So you have those type of TikTok accounts, and they're showing the money, they're showing the guns, but they're also showing the actual warfare. They are showing some of the ugly side of it, but they're making it seem cool. It's like militarized. And then you'll have a link in the bio of that TikTok account that you click it and it directly opens a WhatsApp group chat. That's the beginning step of cartel recruitment where you're joining.
- [108:46]
Sean Ryan
No kidding.
- [108:46]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah, you're joining this group chat, and you have certain higher level operatives for the cartel in there that will ask you certain questions or tell you what you're getting into, and then they vet you based on your answers to those questions or the personal information you give. Then you move into a different group chat and then another one. And it kind of goes down the steps to the point where you're then in direct contact with high level cartel operatives who are actively helping you get into the cartel. And literally to the point where it's like, okay, a car will come and pick you up from your address now, now that you've shown us that you are willing to be a part of our group, and it'll take you to a bus station. You get on that bus, you're gonna meet us here, and you're gonna train for six months in the mountains of Puerto Vallarta. So the social media is just the first step to this. And it's major for them because without numbers, without this support, the cartels can't function. And if you have vulnerable, impressionable young people who are looking for a fatter paycheck, who are enamored by this lifestyle and who want to be a part of something, you have the perfect victim and you take them in and you absolutely abuse the shit out of them and dehumanize them and you turn them into a machine and you give them some money. And now this is the beginning part of someone working for the cartel.
- [110:17]
Sean Ryan
How do they advance? Is this all like family members that stay at the top? Or how do you advance if you're, you know, just a new guy? That's. Yeah, that's just wanting to get recruited and get in there.
- [110:29]
Katerina Schulz
So it is mainly family members, but then it's about proving your loyalty. How much are you going to do for us? And especially if when you prove your loyalty, it's successful. So, flip, a good example of this could be you're starting off, you're fresh in the cartel, you just got out of the training, and then you find out that one of the National Guard members that you guys are paying off is actually acting as an informant or also on the adversary's payroll, whatever the case may be, right? And then you go and you tell the boss, hey, I know this, this and this. I'll go kill him or I'll go torture him. Then you move your way up or, hey, I know a way that we can move this much of this amount of undetected fentanyl from one American state to another. No one's gonna figure it out. And I have a good connect over there. Let's do it. Okay. They run the operation, profits increase. Now you're on your way up. Yeah, true, it's action based and really showing loyalty, your willingness to die for the organization. But this all starts off. Yeah, on social media. It's ridiculous. And the Mexican government has done like a crackdown. They've removed multiple TikTok accounts, but there can only be so much oversight with that. Social media is so vast. And particularly when you have young people who are using a tool that didn't exist before. Because kurdel propaganda has always existed. We've seen like in Juarez back in the early 2000s and even today. But, you know, you have people hanging from bridges, pants pulled down and a narco manta on top of them. A message to whoever is next or this is what will happen to you if you act like these rats. That's a form of propaganda, but that is tangible, blatant propaganda. You bring social media into the mix, it fucks up the whole game. Because how do you apply any oversight to this? How do you ensure that young people aren't being targeted just through the phone that they always have in their hands? And that's why these social. In the social influencers, media influencers are main targets. A major YouTuber in Mexico, Marquito's toys, He has millions of subscribers. He shows this flashy lifestyle. He's from Caloa. His brother was murdered in Baja California. And then it's constant. It's constant.
- [113:19]
Sean Ryan
Are you saying they're murdering influencers as part of the propaganda machine?
- [113:23]
Katerina Schulz
It's certainly part of the propaganda because it sends a loud message. And I think a lot of these influencers also have a role, their role in organized crime, Whether it's laundering money or pushing some sort of narrative In Mexico, a lot of the time when you make a lot of money or you. You gain a platform, somehow the cartel will find a way to use you to push their agenda forward.
- [113:51]
Sean Ryan
What kind of narrative would they be sending out through an influencer?
- [113:57]
Katerina Schulz
Exactly, exactly. This the propaganda that they're not the bad guys or that this is a luxury lifestyle and you should be part of it.
- [114:07]
Sean Ryan
Okay, so it's essentially the same thing as the songs.
- [114:10]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah, it's the recruitment and also to put pressure on their adversaries. So the music does it too. The youtubers do it too. It's very much like we're with CJ&G. Cuatro Letras, fuck whoever else are adversary is. And it garners larger support throughout the population for that one cartel. Like even nowadays, people will ask me, who do you want to win in Sinaloa, Chapo or Mayo? And I'm like, what do you mean? And there are people have those conversations. I will be at a regular dinner with people who have absolutely nothing to do with this. They're completely out of the realm and they're talking about which side of the faction they support. And that's what the propaganda is doing.
- [114:59]
Sean Ryan
Do you think they're using reporters like yourself as part of their propaganda machine?
- [115:05]
Katerina Schulz
I think so. And I think that's why a lot of reporters die, are murdered. Because a lot of reporters don't wanna be a part of that. But for the most part, they have no choice. Especially people who are working for small to medium sized outlets in regions where there is such a cartel stronghold. And they don't want certain news stories to get out or they want certain news stories to get out with a narrative. Yeah. And they're not even getting paid for that. It's just a life or death scenario.
- [115:33]
Sean Ryan
Oh, wow. Yeah, wow. How much of the cartel's money are they, or how much money in general are they ceding into US Politics?
- [115:48]
Katerina Schulz
A lot of the cartel money is in the US Point blank. Whether that is through the shell companies or certain operations that they're conducting in the US in terms of politics, there are a number of US politicians or US authorities in law enforcement that are on the cartel payroll for the most part. This happens in border towns or in states that are major profit regions for the cartel. So that's California, Texas, Arizona.
- [116:30]
Sean Ryan
So are these local governments or all the. All the way up to.
- [116:34]
Katerina Schulz
It goes up high on the food chain.
- [116:37]
Sean Ryan
How high, how high are they getting?
- [116:41]
Katerina Schulz
To the federal level.
- [116:42]
Sean Ryan
To the federal level?
- [116:43]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah, I, I've seen it firsthand.
- [116:47]
Sean Ryan
What, who in the federal level? Senators, congressmen, what are we talking about? FBI agents? Do you have any idea?
- [116:58]
Katerina Schulz
On the federal level, cartels have basically infiltrated any member of politics that they believe they can get to that is willing to work with them and that can push policy that directly benefits them. So whether it's senators, congressmen, dea, ice, even, they have their claws in all of these departments.
- [117:31]
Sean Ryan
Do you think these people know that it's the cartel who's influencing them?
- [117:37]
Katerina Schulz
I think a lot of them do.
- [117:40]
Sean Ryan
How would you know?
- [117:42]
Katerina Schulz
How would I know that these people know or how would they know?
- [117:45]
Sean Ryan
Would the cartel Want these people to know that that's who the. I mean, basically it's lobbying. Right. So would the cartel want their quote, unquote lobbying firm being known as? I would think they wouldn't want them known as, hey, this is a cartel lobbying firm. This is set up by, you know, the Sinaloa or whoever. I think if I was them, I would try to get my narrative or whatever I'm lobbying for to appear as something innocent or just money driven or, you know, do you see what I'm saying? I, I wouldn't want the, I wouldn't want the individual to know that it's coming from a cartel because that would.
- [118:37]
Katerina Schulz
That would, I think it's less incentivizing and it's. Yep, blatantly illegal. It happens both ways. So certainly they have these lobbying groups set up or they can push their agenda in a way where it doesn't seem like it's directly coming from them. Now, at the end of the day, I have an issue with this because I find that it's hard not to know anyone with half a brain, especially if you're in a high ranking position of power. You can dig deep enough to figure it out. And they do have ways to use it to their advantage with certain companies they have. And.
- [119:20]
Sean Ryan
I mean, what would they, I mean, you wouldn't have to like, what's an obvious one? An obvious one they would be lobbying for would be border security, right?
- [119:29]
Katerina Schulz
Yes.
- [119:30]
Sean Ryan
So nobody would have to know that it's the cartel that's lobbying for that specific, you know, for the border. They could just, they could do the, you know, they could just get a group of people that here in, I mean, the US is very divided. They could just get somebody that thinks that we should have open borders and create that group and fund it. And then all it is is just a bunch of people that want to let illegal immigrants through, you know what I mean? And they, and they, and they lobby that. So it doesn't, it doesn't have to. That's how I would do it. I mean, but what other things would they be lobbying for other than open borders?
- [120:09]
Katerina Schulz
It would be open borders. It would be lack of oversight of agriculture coming from Mexico. It would certainly be drug policies. So like safe supply stuff. And also I think a major one would be the arms dealing too, because the majority of the guns that are used at Mexican crime scenes, like 70% are American made firearms. So all of their guns are coming from. Most of their guns are coming from the US and so they're not gonna Want that to shut down or to stop at any point in time, because without those weapons, they can't commit the crimes. And because you can't really get a gun in Mexico the way you can get a gun here, which is exactly why they use that to their advantage. So that would be. And not to mention a lot of the straw buyers, too, are moving guns from the US Into Canada to arm these same people. So that's a big one that I believe that they're lobbying for. I mean, yeah, the border one is a big one, but without the guns, they can't run any of their operations. But you asked, you know, why would they want people to know that they are cartel if they're lobbying or have certain. They have money in certain aspects of the federal government? I think in some ways, sometimes them instilling that fear does work, depending on what the initiative is. And I think they do use that to their advantage sometimes. And there are certain people that they can have in their pockets. Knowing that the fear and knowing that the cartel is on my ass is going to keep them doing exactly what they want and keep them from moving away or speaking out. Because once you have the cartel on your ass, the only way to get out of that is basically to die.
- [122:13]
Sean Ryan
Mm.
- [122:15]
Katerina Schulz
That's certainly less of the circumstance, but it. It is happening.
- [122:20]
Sean Ryan
How are they using the migrant crisis as a tool?
- [122:26]
Katerina Schulz
Like people crossing the border as a tool for what?
- [122:30]
Sean Ryan
Yeah, cartels control over human crossings, including children. The use of distraction groups to tie up border patrol in the human cost, rape, enslavement, and exploitation of migrants. It sounds. I have it as they're using it as a tool for all these things. Can you elaborate on any of that?
- [122:52]
Katerina Schulz
I mean, I have no idea.
- [122:56]
Sean Ryan
What is the use of distraction groups?
- [122:59]
Katerina Schulz
The use of distraction groups is so that they can get people and drugs across the border. There was actually just a video about this. It was in. In Texas, where you have these five guys in a pickup truck and they're doing donuts around, and all the CBP pulls up on them and they're trying to outrun them. Well, at the same time that's happening, there's people, A coyote illegally crossing people or drugs across the border. And that's a really common tool that they use where they'll, you know, they're trying to distract them one way and do something else. They do these smoke screens, and not just blatantly like that at the border, but with a lot of other actions too, especially when.
- [123:43]
Sean Ryan
So they're just creating a bunch of.
- [123:44]
Katerina Schulz
Diversions yes, they're creating a bunch of diversions. They'll do this too, especially if there's like a high level person who needs to get around and that can't typically cross into Mexico or the US vice versa through regular border crossing. And they need to move this person in a stealth way. So they've gotten very good at knowing what captures American authorities attention and how to use that so they can run these profitable or high level operations at the same time that something else is going on.
- [124:23]
Sean Ryan
Do you think they're aware of all the tech that we're implementing along the border wall and what exactly it does? Do you have any insight on that?
- [124:31]
Katerina Schulz
I think that they. Okay, so with the people I've spoken to, especially who are working in organized crime in border regions, they know that the border tech has been amped up in terms of. To what extent? Not as much as they should. They don't know as much as they should know. But they are very hopeful. I sound like a spokesperson for the cartel. That's not the point here. Oh my God. This is just, you know, relaying the information. But they're very hopeful in their ability to adapt because they've always done it. It's just a matter of what has changed, how has the US ramped it up? The same thing they do with the Mexican government, actually. Okay, you want to put these troops here. Oh, you want to implement this, I don't know, thermal technology that can tell you if someone's even close to the border along the over 2,000 miles that it spans. We're gonna find a way around that. They typically do that and that's why they've been so successful and profitable in every operation. But I don't wanna sound like a spokesperson for the cartel and I sometimes, you know, talking about exactly how they're reacting to certain things. But they do adapt. That's one thing. There's a crackdown and they find another way. I mean, it just happened in Sinaloa. The US and Mexico were trying so hard, had this whole operation to get the main security enforcer for the Sinaloa cartel, La Perez. Yeah, they get him. There's a new guy in and he's bigger and badder than ever before. I mean, they'll always find a way around it. Oh, Trump in his first administration is cracking down on the southern border. Fuck it, let's go to Canada. And so you can put border technology across all 2,000 miles of the southern border and have it to the point where it is like Guantanamo Bay. They find a way. Because if human smuggling and drug trafficking is just that profitable for them, where they're making billions, tens of billions of dollars a year by doing it, they will find a way around it. I mean, wouldn't that be an incentive for you? Yeah. And would you find a way around it?
- [126:47]
Sean Ryan
I would try. The thing is, I don't. I mean, I don't know how much we've actually, is still to this day. I don't know how much we've actually pushed them. You know what I mean? I think, you know, if it, if we get serious about this, I don't think they will find a way.
- [127:04]
Katerina Schulz
But, and I agree with you, I don't think they will either, because cartels against full fledged US Government, that's just a complete power imbalance. The issue stands with the US hasn't pushed as hard as it could. And so the cartels do feel somewhat untouchable. I mean, there are certain actions that, you know, you extradite the 29 capos, you get El Mayo into the States, you crack down Fentanyl seizures at the border have gone down significantly. Okay, but that's really just the tip of the iceberg. And they're so used to operating in a country with so much corruption and impunity, where money talks, that if you had a government come in where none of that works, the old tricks don't work on this new dog. It would have to be a complete overhaul for them. And like we talked about, they're certainly preparing for this.
- [128:05]
Sean Ryan
Have you heard any, any rumors about cartels aligning with traditional terrorist organizations?
- [128:12]
Katerina Schulz
Yeah.
- [128:13]
Sean Ryan
What does that look like?
- [128:14]
Katerina Schulz
Especially with Iran? That's, that's a huge thing in terms of training, what kind of weaponry they need. And intelligence is a big one, particularly when targeting America. So I know that there was an operation with Canadian authorities that were looking into organized crime groups operating with terrorist groups, and particularly in Iran. And the main objective of this was to find out how the efforts between the two were directly impacting Canadian intelligence efforts. So they were trying to compromise all of the intelligence gathering and covert operations that were going on through attacking their intelligence. And the thing about the Mexican drug cartels is, especially since Trump's first administration, they have had to amp up their efforts in knowing what the U.S. s next move is going to be, because the U.S. next move determines just how much money they're going to make and how they have to adapt. And so Iran and Mexican drug cartels do have a connection, and this is with high ups of the drug cartels to understand how the US Is operating, their intelligence, what type of actions the US could potentially take or is taking silently against drug cartels and ensure that they kind of build a firewall around themselves in terms of weaponry. A lot of the techniques and certain arms that drug cartels are using, particularly now, have been learned from organized terrorist groups that have been around forever. And on a side note, it goes into their propaganda too, because Mexican drug cartels post that typical press release video admitting or denying a certain fatal tragedy that occurred or something that, like a big news story, they address it head on. They have the script, they have the lighting, they even have the logo, the banner on it, the background music. Just like the same way ISIS was doing and the Taliban and those videos. Now, like when ISIS and the Taliban was doing it, it was on social media, whatever, but it was mainly being sent to news outlets or they were posting it on their page. It was more confined. Whereas now it just you put it out there and it spreads like a virus. And so a lot of their techniques, which is why it's interesting that it took so long to declare Mexican drug cartels as foreign terrorist organizations, because a lot of their techniques, whether it comes to gathering intelligence or infiltrating the US Or Canada, and the way they are able to manage public perception of themselves, it completely matches that of traditional terrorist groups. Wow. The only difference, I would say, is the way a lot of these traditional terrorist groups would directly go and attack Americans. Right. Like there was a bomb, there was a shooting, someone drove through a crowd. For Mexican drug cartels, it's chemical warfare. It's drugs. They don't need to go and plant a bomb in the name of drug cartels.
- [132:26]
Sean Ryan
Do you think it'll ever get kinetic with down at the southern border if.
- [132:33]
Katerina Schulz
American boots hit Mexican soil? I've been saying this, and I really do believe that if American, especially tier one operators, get into Mexico, we're going to see that traditional terrorism style happen in the US Particularly along the border region. Because at that point, it's like what we said, they have nothing to lose and they will go down with a fight. And if they're already working with traditional terrorist groups, they know what the playbook says.
- [133:04]
Sean Ryan
Man, that's terrifying to hear. What do you think the US And Canada should be doing that we're not doing?
- [133:18]
Katerina Schulz
I think there needs to be. You know, it's gotten better, especially at the southern border. I really believe so, and I've been covering that region since. For a while now, so you can kind of compare the differences. But what Needs to be done is to tackle the root of the problem, the indoctrination and the financial pipelines. Because grabbing this, you know, picking up this big guy that runs a major faction and flaunting him around and parading him and saying, look what we did. We captured this guy that works for five minutes before it's just as bad again or worse. After they got El Mayo, the Sinaloa cartel just fucking exploded. It made hell like life was a living hell is a living hell for a lot of people in that region. And so I think tackling it at its root is what needs to happen. But that's a huge operation that goes beyond just going in and doing this covert mission to grab someone. You have to somehow put a stop to propaganda at its deepest form. Monitor the socials and target financial pipelines, like I said, remittance apps, the banks, the companies that are fronting for these groups. And that's a lot harder, I think. Do you think that's harder?
- [134:46]
Sean Ryan
Yeah, that would be tough. It could be done. But, you know, what's interesting is I just don't think that we have really pushed on them at all. And so it'll be, if that time comes. I mean, to me, securing our border is not pushing back. That's just shit that we should have done a long time ago.
- [135:06]
Katerina Schulz
It's a band aid.
- [135:07]
Sean Ryan
But if we actually go on the offensive, then, I mean, I think this could be wrapped up.
- [135:14]
Katerina Schulz
What would the offensive look like for you?
- [135:16]
Sean Ryan
Like I said, I think. I think what I would do is initially pit them against each other to weaken them, to keep our people safe. You know, let's weaken them as much as we possibly can. In the meantime, you know, you could send in the intel reps, the operatives to start tackling the financials. You know, you could outbid them on the gas. There's a lot of things you could do. I'd start, then I'd do that. And then to wrap it up, I would send in the tier one units.
- [135:50]
Katerina Schulz
And I think it is slowly happening.
- [135:52]
Sean Ryan
To demoralize them also. Yeah, lot of strikes.
- [135:56]
Katerina Schulz
Because it is a psychological game, too. Yeah, there is. You know, aside from the CIA planes that are flying over the northern states, there's a vessel that's docked, a US Vessel that's docked at the port of Veracruz. The border is militarized. And then you have, like, ice, DEA working, allegedly working with Mexican forces to conduct operations without having to step foot in Mexico. But it seems to be like these are all precursors to something bigger that could potentially Happen. Especially if the US isn't seeing the result that it wants. Which is what? Demoralized cartels? Less fentanyl, Less human smuggling. Or for it to stop altogether, which I just don't see happening. But at the end of the day, you still have to deal with this big figurehead, which is the Mexican government, who has too much reason not to crack down on these guys.
- [136:55]
Sean Ryan
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it is what it is with them. It's our people that are being affected. You know, for sure they don't want to help their people. That's on them. But. But what the hell do I know? I'm just a podcaster. So anyways, well, I forgot to give you something here at the beginning.
- [137:15]
Katerina Schulz
Okay.
- [137:16]
Sean Ryan
So do it at the end. Everybody gets a gift. Thank you so much, Vigilance Elite. Gummy Bears.
- [137:22]
Katerina Schulz
So excited to be here in the usa. I'm asking you about this.
- [137:25]
Sean Ryan
Not smuggled across the border. But before we wrap it up, what are you getting ready to get into? Anything exciting?
- [137:32]
Katerina Schulz
Yes, I'm really excited. So I just did. I'm doing my podcast with ironclad Borderline Dispatches. So I'm basically just going boots on the ground to show people exactly what's happening without having, you know, you know, I try to always do beyond the headline reporting where I go and I speak to the people who are affected right there and paint the picture of what's going on. So on Borderline Dispatches, I went to the southern border and then I went up to the northern border. I showed everyone just how open it is. And soon we're gonna be going in back to Mexico to just show some of the cartel ridden regions and how it varies from different areas and who's running.
- [138:16]
Sean Ryan
What does that mean? You're having a crew go with you?
- [138:22]
Katerina Schulz
I operate alone.
- [138:23]
Sean Ryan
Good for you, man.
- [138:24]
Katerina Schulz
I've been doing that. And actually, it's funny, a lot of people don't know that, but I've always done this alone, so it's a lot of work, but I think it's worth it. You know, that's a trust thing too. I feel like if I go in alone, more people will talk to me and share more information. It's disarming.
- [138:40]
Sean Ryan
Well, where can we find you?
- [138:42]
Katerina Schulz
You can find me on the podcast. Apple, Spotify, Borderline Dispatches. I also have my substack. It's my full name. Katerina Schultz. Everything is my full name with the most complicated spelling. S, Z, U, L, C.
- [138:56]
Sean Ryan
All right.
- [138:56]
Katerina Schulz
Katarina, thank you so much.
- [138:58]
Sean Ryan
Thank you. I really appreciate you.
- [139:00]
Katerina Schulz
I appreciate you having me here and.
- [139:02]
Sean Ryan
Hope to see you again.
- [139:03]
Katerina Schulz
Likewise.
- [139:17]
Sean Ryan
The United States Soccer Federation presents the U.S. soccer Podcast. Inside the opening 45 seconds. What a goal. With that cannon of a left foot.
- [139:28]
Katerina Schulz
I'll leave it at 1. Never miss a game. What a start for the United States.
- [139:32]
Sean Ryan
Shot for distance.
- [139:34]
Katerina Schulz
What a goal.
- [139:35]
Sean Ryan
Never miss a moment. Exquisite. From the San Diego.
- [139:38]
Katerina Schulz
Can he finish?
- [139:40]
Sean Ryan
Yes, he can. The U.S. soccer Podcast. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.