Shawn Ryan Show #228: David Rutherford – Navy SEAL & CIA Contractor
Release: August 18, 2025 | Host: Shawn Ryan | Guest: David Rutherford

Episode Overview

The most personal episode to date for host Shawn Ryan, this conversation with his best friend, fellow Navy SEAL and CIA contractor David Rutherford, explores themes of brotherhood, trauma, resilience, faith, and the lifelong journey of healing after war. Rutherford opens up in extraordinary detail about family struggles, professional rises and tragedies, his darkest moments, and the pathway to personal redemption. Intended as a legacy for his children and those he loves, the discussion is unflinchingly honest and powerfully vulnerable.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brotherhood and Personal Ties (03:41–10:45)

• Deep Friendship: Shawn introduces David as his best friend, mentor, and even the man who married him to his wife.
• Legacy Interview: Emphasizes the depth of their intertwined lives and intent to make this a defining record for Rutherford’s family.

“Like I said, this is the most personal interview I'll ever do ... This is your life story. Thank you.”
– Shawn (15:24)

• Faith-Based Start: Episode opens with shared prayer, expressing hope the episode brings light to those struggling after service.

2. Childhood, Family, and Early Struggles (15:40–40:32)

• Boca Raton Upbringing: Idyllic beach town life, deep sense of community from parents heavily involved in charity and civic causes.
• Older Brother’s Coming Out & Family Impact: At age 10, David’s brother Eric comes out as gay in the early '80s, triggering familial turmoil, substance struggles for Eric, and estrangement lasting decades.

“The arguments, the yelling, the ... state of mind. One minute I had my brother there and the next he was gone.”
– David (28:43)

• Childhood Escape: David turns to sports, friends, modeling, and art as refuges from a fractured family atmosphere.

3. The Spiral: College Years, Substance Abuse, and Near Suicide (62:05–90:03)

• Penn State, Loss of Identity: Dreams of college football are dashed. Turns to lacrosse, but feelings of inadequacy and outsider status grow.
• Descent into Alcohol & Drugs: Adopts a flamboyant alter ego ("Elvis"), spiraling into heavy drinking and drug use.
• Darkest Moment: A former partner reveals she was pregnant but miscarried. Feeling irredeemable, David contemplates suicide—loaded shotgun in hand—only to be interrupted and saved by his best friend.

“I put a shell in it and was seriously contemplating shooting myself. ... I just remember just ... be weeping in my room, just ... trying to work up the courage.”
– David (78:04)

4. Redemption via Challenge: The Call to the SEAL Teams (83:01–129:24)

• Turning Point: In a laundromat, David feels an overwhelming urge to change his life—remembers a book about Navy SEALs, setting him on that path.
• Family Resistance and Support: Father is initially hesitant, requests deep conversations and a consult with a Vietnam vet before giving his blessing.
• Grueling Training Journey: Endures multiple injuries, rolls, and heartbreaks—including failing “pool comp”—but persists for over a year, finishing BUD/S on the third attempt.

“It's about the death component for me, that was definitely there, but it wasn't the, the reverse of that. It wasn't like, oh, I'm going to deliver death.”
– David (127:08)

• Pinning the Trident: Finally earns his SEAL qualification, celebrating with his parents and a blood-pinning ceremony—an emotional family moment.

5. Early SEAL Operational Culture & Disappointment (188:53–201:21)

• Pre-9/11 Team Life: Describes wild, party-driven SEAL culture, devoid of real combat (bar fights, womanizing, testing limits).
• Coping with Discontent: Discusses the psychological need for purpose, the dangers of a “culture of death,” and the tendency for violence to emerge in the absence of war.

“The further away from combat you get, the more complacent the organization becomes.”
– David (195:31)

6. First Combat: Afghanistan, Friendly Fire, and Lifelong Trauma (209:18–315:52)

• Deployment Build-Up: Gets chance at a long-awaited combat deployment as medic on a SEAL “Desert Patrol Vehicle” platoon (2002).
• Lack of Clarity & Frustration: Operations feel uncoordinated; the threat of landmines and enemy fire is constant. Early missions result in little direct action.

The Night Everything Changed (254:25–315:52)

• Night Raid with Canadian SOF: In a chaotic firefight at night, while clearing a field in Afghanistan, three teammates are wounded by friendly fire. As the acting medic, David treats his friends under extreme duress, believing he may have inflicted their wounds.
• Lifelong Guilt and Shame: Investigation is inconclusive, but David accepts personal blame, leading to years of isolation, substance abuse, and anguished attempts to seek forgiveness.

“I just always believed I did. And that sent me into a spiral that almost destroyed me again.”
– David (278:30)

• Attempts at Redemption: Struggles with career stagnation, failed relationships, and never feeling worthy of another chance or belonging in the SEAL community.

Notable Quotes:

• "Everything slows down ... You're trying to figure out what was worth it. Why shouldn't I just end it?" – David, describing his suicide contemplation [78:04]
• "You're not going to process this at an individual level. It's too immense. ... The only way you can diminish those [insecurities] is to engage with people that can help you deconstruct those fears..." – David [306:28]
• "There's a strange thing in our world. ... Your whole reputation is built on what's going to happen under fire." – David [290:02]

7. After the Teams: Contracting, the CIA, and the Search for Meaning (319:09–404:16)

• Civilian Struggles and Blackwater: Forms a kids’ motivational training company; faces financial hardship, then begins contracting for Blackwater and later the CIA.
• Agency Deployments: Recounts chaotic experiences in Afghanistan and, later, in Pakistan (including the tense aftermath of the Raymond Davis shooting and the bin Laden raid).
• Disillusionment: Encounters corruption, misaligned priorities, and moral complexity in war zones and contracting life; his faith and sense of purpose take new shape.

8. Faith, Forgiveness, Healing, and Family (398:20–442:06)

• Finding Faith: Details transformative experiences—through prayer in Afghanistan to baptism before deployment—that help him process trauma and find redemption.
• Friendship Through Darkness: Shawn and David recount moments of mutual intervention during each other's lowest points—highlighted by raw stories of violence, breakdown, and eventual recovery.
• Meetings and Proposals: The story of meeting his now-wife Jonna—herself a widow to suicide—and finding a love rooted in truth, resilience, and the willingness to heal together.
• Blended Family and Parenting: Speaks movingly about the role of stepfather ("bonus dad") and the responsibility of guiding four daughters through the world.

To His Kids and Wife (436:56–440:55):

"Don't be afraid of the unknown. ... Seek out the challenges, the hard things. ... embrace your fear and have self confidence ... living openly with purpose in your heart."
– David (436:56)

"I would not have rediscovered who I am without her. ... I promised her I would protect that with everything I have as a man."
– David on Jonna (438:49–440:55)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Suicide and Despair:
  “You want to be isolated and you’re ashamed of it ... The negative insurgency, it hunts you and hunts you.”
  – David, [81:43]

• On Living with Friendly Fire:
  “In that moment, my life changed for a long, long time, because immediately I had the sensation that I was the guy who had shot them.”
  – David, [278:30]

• On Redemption and Change:
  “...You have to go wander the desert. ...That’s how we grow—in that pain, that humility, that suffering.”
  – David, [393:07]

• On Faith:
  “I felt like God was trying to communicate with me, but I was so ashamed of who I was and what I was that I couldn’t do it.”
  – David, [305:32]

• On Brotherhood:
  “You just, you just drive on. ...There’s nobody, almost nobody I trust more than you, other than Jonna and I.”
  – David (412:39)

Important Timestamps

• Prayer and purpose: [09:18–10:45]
• Brother's coming out, family trauma: [24:47–32:15]
• Contemplating suicide in college: [76:29–82:48]
• Deciding to join the SEALs: [83:01–88:28]
• BUD/S training struggle: [129:24–155:07]
• First SEAL deployment and disappointment: [188:53–201:21]
• Night raid, friendly fire incident: [254:25–295:46]
• Revealing guilt and struggle after Afghanistan: [278:26–315:52]
• Life after ‘the Teams’/CIA contracting: [319:17–390:34]
• Finding faith, redemption, healing: [398:20–404:16]
• Personal family letters/messages: [436:56–440:55]

Tone & Language

The conversation is raw, open, and emotional—with moments of dark humor, vulnerability, and unwavering candor. Both men speak as battle-hardened warriors and sensitive fathers, balancing gruffness with grace. The final portions exude encouragement, forgiveness, and hope.

For Listeners:

Why You Should Listen:
This is one of the most honest and human interviews with a Special Operations veteran ever recorded. It’s a masterclass in vulnerability, what trauma really costs, and how brotherhood, faith, and family provide a path out of the darkness.

Trigger Warning:
The episode contains frank discussion of suicide attempts, addiction, combat trauma, and loss.

Final Reflection:
What emerges isn’t just the record of an operator’s life, but a playbook for post-traumatic growth—one shaped by hard lessons and the healing power of faith, accountability, and love.

End of Episode Summary