Shawn Ryan Show — Episode #239: Dan Driscoll, U.S. Secretary of the Army

Release Date: September 25, 2025
Host: Shawn Ryan
Guest: Secretary Dan Driscoll

Episode Overview

This candid and in-depth episode features Secretary Dan Driscoll, the 26th U.S. Secretary of the Army. Driscoll, a combat veteran, former ATF Acting Director, and venture capital executive, sits down with Shawn Ryan to discuss the complexities of reforming the U.S. Army, challenges within the Department of War (formerly Defense), innovation in military procurement, the National Guard's domestic role, mental health in the armed forces, and America’s evolving security threats—especially from China. The tone is unvarnished, mission-focused, and sometimes darkly humorous, with Driscoll and Ryan not shying away from bureaucracy, rot in leadership, or controversial defense decisions.

Table of Contents

• Introducing Dan Driscoll | [01:01]
• The "Baptist Preacher and Jihadist" Analogy | [01:12]
• ATF, Gun Rights, and Violent Crime | [04:35]
• Mental Health & Soldier Suicide | [09:04]
• The National Guard and City Crime | [16:05]
• Role of the Press & Public Perceptions | [23:19]
• National Guard: Operations on U.S. Soil | [26:03]
• Driscoll’s Upbringing and Path to Service | [35:25]
• Deployment Experience and The Dangers of Bureaucracy | [40:25]
• Cutting Bureaucracy and Driving Bottom-Up Reform | [53:45]
• Innovation, Procurement, and Army Modernization | [57:44]
• The Prime Defense Contractors: Entrenchment vs. Disruption | [69:02]
• The Right to Repair and Empirical Solutions | [73:40]
• Military Leadership: Fixing "The Rot" | [84:59]
• Long-Term Cultural and Systemic Change | [90:58]
• Recruiting, Retention, and Gen Z | [93:51]
• Warfare’s Future: Drones, AI, and Human Adaptation | [101:21]
• China, Global Threats, and U.S. Resilience | [122:49]
• Taiwan, Ukraine, Israel: Geopolitics and American Posture | [133:32]
• Innovation, Silicon Valley, and Military Partnerships | [148:47]

Introducing Dan Driscoll [01:01]

• Shawn introduces Dan Driscoll: 26th Secretary of the Army, Army veteran, Yale Law grad, investment banker, venture fund COO, and former candidate for Congress.
• Known for slashing red tape and focusing on a “soldier-first” approach.
• Deep family military roots and a sharp, reform-minded attitude.

The "Baptist Preacher and Jihadist" Analogy [01:12]

Driscoll describes himself as:

“A mixture of a Southern Baptist preacher and a jihadist who's going to pull the temple down on all of our heads because we had to rebuild the thing.” — Driscoll [02:32]

• Explains this as a metaphor for radical institutional change in the Pentagon: “how decayed and calcified … the decision-making model in the Pentagon has been for decades.”
• The phrase raised eyebrows at conferences, especially abroad.

ATF, Gun Rights, and Violent Crime [04:35]

Patreon Listener Question: Can the ATF be depoliticized or reformed regarding gun regulation?

Driscoll:

• ATF’s reputation for harsh regulation is accurate—“they will bring down these incredibly catastrophic consequences” for paperwork errors.
• “What ATF is really good at is violent crime ... like the blue-collar officers who will get their hands dirty.”
• Under the Trump admin, ATF is refocusing on targeting violent crime, not “regulat[ing] against a right that is obviously there.”
• Proposal to rebrand as the “Bureau of Violent Crimes.”

Quote:

“One of the things we're talking about with ATF is doing a complete rebrand ... something like being the Bureau of Violent Crimes, which is exactly what it's actually good at and what most Americans want it to be doing.” — Driscoll [07:21]

Mental Health & Soldier Suicide [09:04]

• The link between immediate firearms access and suicide is acknowledged, but Driscoll resists blaming firearms themselves: “I don't know though that it's the firearm's fault.”
• The constitutional right is clear, but prevention solutions are complex: “I just think the problem is so much more complex ... the people we trust to go out on behalf of our nation with our most ferocious weapons ... that just doesn't seem like the right answer.”
• Driscoll writes condolence letters to families for all soldier deaths, including suicides—a “miserable part of this job.”
• Acknowledges resource investment and a lack of “clear right answer.”

The National Guard and City Crime [16:05]

• Ryan asks about National Guard activation in cities: Is it martial law? Is it government overreach?
• Driscoll stresses it’s about safety, not martial law: “the government's primary role ... is to provide security and safety … from international threats and from within our border.” [18:16]
• Points to significant reductions in crime, such as D.C. carjackings down 85% after Guard deployment.
• Community response is overwhelmingly positive, with soldiers often serving their own neighborhoods.

Role of the Press & Public Perceptions [23:19]

• Both Ryan and Driscoll lament how media sensationalism distorts military operations and fosters mistrust.
• Quote:

  “...the entire system has been set up to tell a story, create a headline to get a person to click on it so you get rewarded. … For the average American, we keep telling these boogeyman stories about what the President is trying to do to secure our communities and I think it's really harmful.” — Driscoll [22:39]

National Guard: Operations on U.S. Soil [26:03-32:54]

• Guard missions determined by community needs, leveraging soldiers’ diverse civilian skills.
• The presence is a morale boost; local police express gratitude for Guard support.
• If gangs or cartels engage violently:

  “They would see the full might and fury of our United States Army ... an act of God coming at them." — Driscoll [31:15]

• Federal involvement intended as long as necessary—“in it until it's done” to restore safety.

Driscoll’s Upbringing and Path to Service [35:25]

• Grew up in Boone, NC, from a family of service members.
• Inspired by a book on West Point and a sense of generational duty.
• Graduated UNC Chapel Hill in three years to join the Army in 2007, during the Iraq “surge.”
• Ranger school experience: Realization of vulnerability and forging lifelong bonds.

Deployment Experience and The Dangers of Bureaucracy [40:25]

• Describes frustration in Iraq: Missions were risk-averse to the point of futility (“...if that's what you're telling us to do ... just don't send us out.”)
• Absurd ROE example: A mission aborted over an unbreakable gym lock.
• Became determined to reform the system upon return.

Cutting Bureaucracy and Driving Bottom-Up Reform [53:45]

• Under President Trump and Secretary of War Hagseth, mission is to return to “a culture of lethality and focus on the shit that matters.”
• $48 billion reallocated from outdated systems (e.g., Humvees) to modern equipment (e.g., ISVs—faster, cheaper, easier to repair).
• Overhaul of bloated headquarters, sending officers and staff back to line units.

Quote:

“We spend $185 billion a year ... so we're spending that $185 billion pretty poorly most times ... What we did is we looked at things like Humvees ... and reallocating those $48 billion over the next five years to things we actually needed.” — Driscoll [53:45]

Innovation, Procurement, and Army Modernization [57:44]

• Emphasis on adopting Silicon Valley-style “minimum viable product” approaches.
• Field soldiers now test new gear and provide direct feedback for fast innovation cycles.
• Worked with companies like Applied Intuition to make Army vehicles—including Humvees—autonomous in under 10 days.

Quote:

“We are rethinking ... not just what is the effectiveness of specifically what we buy, but how can we repair it in places like the Indo Pacific.” — Driscoll [56:18]

The Prime Defense Contractors: Entrenchment vs. Disruption [69:02]

• Driscoll openly desires to “put one of the Primes out of business” as a wake-up call to the industry.
• Explains “cost-plus” contracting traps: “They [primes] have integrated themselves so deeply and entrenched ... it would be hard for us to operate without them.”
• Upcoming Army events to invite startups, VCs, and primes for direct partnership and acquisition opportunities.

The Right to Repair and Empirical Solutions [73:40]

• Showcases a $2 part that sidelined 80% of a weapon system due to procurement rules, with backorders until 2027.
• Drives new policy: Empowering soldiers on the ground to 3D print and repair their own equipment, ignoring vendor-imposed restrictions if needed.
• “I’ve told everybody ... we have a thousand lawyers, we'll fucking see them in court for 50 years. Doesn't matter to me. Just go fix our stuff.” — Driscoll [79:08]

Military Leadership: Fixing "The Rot" [84:59]

• Discusses long-standing issues where non-combat, performative officers rise in the bureaucracy while experience leaves.
• Under new leadership, the focus is on promoting “unconventional leaders” with real-world, combat experience.
• “We've got to ... kick them the fuck out of the army because we don't have time with the threats worldwide to allow ourselves to continue to be just, in some instances, mediocre. We have got to be excellent.” — Driscoll [88:59]

Long-Term Cultural and Systemic Change [90:58]

• Acknowledges the challenge of making reforms stick between administrations; focus is on modeling right behavior and rewarding “rougher around the edge” leaders who’ve taken real risks.
• Working to change promotion and incentive structures behind the scenes—not just relying on individuals, but building supportive systems.

Recruiting, Retention, and Gen Z [93:51]

• Recruitment and retention rates are at record highs since Trump’s return:

  “...we hit our 12 month goal 7,8ish months into the year ... just on fire.” — Driscoll [93:51]

• Gen Z praised for tech skills and rapid adaptation—indispensable for drone and AI-driven future war.
• “These new soldiers … can pick up an FPV drone and … get it in windows, they’re able to get these drones into places that the rest of us can’t, just instinctually.” — Driscoll [98:18]

Warfare’s Future: Drones, AI, and Human Adaptation [101:21]

• No single “one size fits all” approach; future war will blend human and AI, hardware and software.
• Drone swarms, counter-drone, machine/human teams—urgency for the U.S. to empower its tech sector.
• “...in a World War 3 scenario where somebody blows something up in low Earth orbit … it takes out all the satellites … you need redundancy at every single step.” — Driscoll [132:32]

China, Global Threats, and U.S. Resilience [122:49]

• China is America’s “pacing threat,” outpacing in manufacturing and “hyper focused on an outcome.”
• China's strengths: sheer scale, long-term vision, manufacturing prowess, aggressive adoption of foreign IP.
• Weaknesses: homogeneity, less empowerment of NCO initiative ("commanders’ intent"), population decline.
• Heavy focus on restoring U.S. manufacturing capacity and critical supply lines (e.g., chips, drones).

Taiwan, Ukraine, Israel: Geopolitics and American Posture [133:32]

• On Taiwan: Driscoll avoids hypotheticals but stresses America’s reputation for defending allies:

  “When America puts one of our soldiers on the ground somewhere, if you [mess] with that soldier, you are going to have a beast coming behind you.” — Driscoll [137:03]

• On Russia-Ukraine: Optimistic peace could come under current U.S. leadership, but “no one knows.”
• On Israel and Gaza: War “fucking sucks ... civilian deaths are catastrophic ... but their righteous anger makes all the sense in the world to me.” Acknowledges the uniquely existential nature of their security situation.

Innovation, Silicon Valley, and Military Partnerships [148:47]

• U.S. Army now courts defense startups and plans “cradle-to-grave” venture funding.
• Recognizes the shift in Silicon Valley culture toward supporting U.S. defense needs.
• Cautions about government stakes in private defense companies—benefits must be balanced against risk of cronyism and lost innovation.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the state of American soldiers:

  “I would bet on them every single time to solve any problem our nation has.” — Driscoll [45:25]

• On reform:

  “Most problems are complex ... but the upside is the American soldier ... I would bet on them every single time.” — Driscoll [45:36]

• On media and narrative:

  “We keep telling these boogeyman stories about what the President is trying to do to secure our communities and I think it's really harmful. It's degrading our belief in the system unnecessarily.” — Driscoll [22:39]

• On facing internal opposition:

  “That's what makes them so hard to root out sometimes is you wouldn't see an offensive or like a kinetic pushback. You actually just try to sniff out ... will you fight for them when we're gone?” — Driscoll [95:09]

• On $2,000 parts that should be $2:

  “As an experiment ... have an individual soldier own the responsibility of getting it back online ... just get it back online and let's see what happens. ... We're no longer going to accept that we can't repair our own stuff.” — Driscoll [78:14]

Conclusion

Secretary Dan Driscoll’s episode is an unfiltered look at the current and future U.S. Army—a force undergoing radical reform to meet technological, cultural, and global challenges. Driscoll’s ambitious agenda: slash bureaucracy, empower soldiers, modernize equipment through private-sector partnerships, and defend the nation from emerging threats without losing the Army’s identity as a “war-fighting” institution. Both host and guest are optimistic about the future, especially with a new wave of innovation and leadership returning the Army to a “culture of lethality and excellence.” The challenges—from China’s rise to internal bureaucratic rot—are formidable, but Driscoll’s vision and resolve are equally robust.

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