The Shawn Ryan Show #252 — Matt Bissonnette: SEAL Team 6 Operator’s First-Hand Account of Operation Neptune Spear

Episode Overview

In this powerful, candid episode, Shawn Ryan welcomes Matt Bissonnette — the former SEAL Team 6 operator known publicly as "Mark Owen" and author of the bestseller No Easy Day — for his first-ever public, on-camera interview revealing his identity. For the first time, Bissonnette tells his story openly, describing his upbringing, selection and operational career in the SEALs, participating in the historic mission to kill Osama bin Laden, and his subsequent legal/political battles with the U.S. government surrounding his books and media depictions of the SEAL community. This extensive conversation explores themes of service, accountability, sacrifice, faith, and the bureaucratic double standards faced by front-line operators.

Main Topics & Themes

• First public interview by Matt Bissonnette, revealing himself as the author of No Easy Day
• Life journey: childhood in remote Alaska, SEAL recruitment, BUD/S, and progression to SEAL Team 6
• First-hand, detailed retelling of Operation Neptune Spear (bin Laden raid)
• Legal and ethical controversies: treatment by U.S. government, book release, double standards for rank/civilian officials
• Reflections on leadership, mental health, family, faith, and institutional betrayal

Key Discussion Points by Segment

1. Setting the Stage & Motivation (00:06–04:43)

• Shawn Ryan acknowledges the weight of Bissonnette’s decision to come forward:
  “You've never revealed your identity before. This is the first time... I know this was a major decision for you, and I just want to say I'm honored...” (00:11)
• Matt on “why now?”:
  He credits Shawn for helping him reevaluate, after years of privacy and reflection:
  “I thought about it, prayed about it, and said, hey, maybe it is time.” (03:42)
• Mission: Set the record straight on how the government treated him over No Easy Day and his forthcoming book, No Easy Way.

2. The Book Controversy and Legal Fight (04:48–12:54)

• Required government review:
  “Anybody who's signed a top secret clearance has to get any and all works reviewed. Now, is that enforced across the board? Absolutely not. They just go after who they want to.” (04:54)
• Double standards highlighted:
  “Didn't McRaven just do a special on this on Netflix? ...That’s a Netflix thing. Right. So he doesn’t have to do it?” — Shawn (05:07)
• Summing up legal ordeal: Matt details how the government seized his book earnings, kept him in legal limbo, required repayment plans, and ostracized him from the SEAL community for years:
  “The government immediately came after me...they said, hey, look, there's nothing classified in the book. We just want all the book money back. ...I pay $3,800 a month for the next 15 years.” (10:28–11:00)

3. Faith, Family, and Identity (08:59–17:42)

• Handling adversity:
  “My faith is easier to keep when I've been in the trenches, ...where I've had my biggest struggles is where I'm not in the fight...I guess I realized that anytime you're challenged in your faith, it's God testing you.” — Matt (09:10)
• PTSD & losing his community:
  “I've been fighting my own government for 12 years...Every single one of my friends...gone. Boom. If you talk to me, I was getting comms from guys on their wife's phone or prepaid 7-11 phones saying 'Yo dude...I'll come up for air.'” (165:36)

4. Upbringing and Path to Becoming a SEAL (20:28–31:53)

• Unique Alaskan childhood:
  “I grew up in a remote village in the middle of Alaska...Graduated high school with three people in my senior class. ...Drove a snowmobile to school.” (20:28–20:52)
• Inspiration from books & family:
  “I read books about the SEALs in Vietnam...That's why I wanted to join.” (24:43)
• Culture shock: Transitioning from rural Alaska to college in LA; then to military life and ROTC vs. Navy decision.

5. BUD/S and Green Team (31:01–44:38)

• SEAL training and mindset:
  “BUDS was simple enough where it was like, you get the deal. Yell, you run that way. Don't quit. Okay. Check. I got that. The selection [at Team 6] was, okay, how good are you...under stress and pressure?” (37:00–38:34)
• Green Team and Red Squadron:
  “I wanted to graduate and be assigned to one of the squadrons...Red was: 'Put up or shut up.' ...very black and white, right? Standards were this high.” (43:23)

6. Operational Deployments & Notable Missions (49:21–71:49)

• SEAL Team 6 pace & deployments:
  “The op tempo was through the roof. ...You were just deploying every six months or less.” (44:40)
• First kinetic experiences:
  “My first shootouts, my first everything was that deployment. ...Shot through the door, shooting through the door. That was the first. ...Oh my gosh, they're shooting back at us right now.” (34:37)
• Joining Delta for Iraq: Comparison, integration, mutual respect, and differences:
  “We swim more...But from the operator themselves, the way they're structured, the way they operate...very similar.” (57:15)
• Captain Phillips, casualties, and brotherhood:
  Clear-eyed reflections on loss, risk, and the evolution of tactics and leadership.
  “If I go through the contact list of my phone, yeah. 43 names...are dead...Talk about faith and my journey...The way I dealt with that, right, without going crazy, was I chalked it up as that was God's plan.” (68:32–70:42)

Operation Neptune Spear: The Bin Laden Raid (81:08–123:29)

Initial Brief and Planning (81:08–89:05)

• Recall from leave:
  "They pulled 24 most senior of us in the squadron and briefed us up that, hey, look, we think we found him. We want you guys to plan the ground assault option." (81:25)
• Only mission he ever rehearsed:
  “Never rehearsed for a single mission...the only mission I ever rehearsed for sleeping line.” (84:42)
• High risk:
  “...you have up to a 70% chance being shot down on the Helo ride in or the helo ride out.” (88:20)

The Raid, Crash, and Execution (89:12–119:05)

• The plan:
  “Super simple, like we did in Baghdad. Top down, bottom up...We're going to squish him in the main house.” (89:12)
• Helicopter crash and why:
  “The op was moved to the right the next day. The temperature was 8 degrees warmer… we didn’t have the lift...because the President wanted to hit the White House Correspondent’s Dinner.” (91:48)
• On the ground, under fire:
  “I was setting my charge...AK-47 through the door...I picked up a little frag in my shoulder...found a bullet stuck in the handle of my bolt cutters.” (102:11)
• Combat clearance and CQB evolution:
  “We had started evolving our tactics...it was no longer hostage rescue clearance. It was combat clearance—slower, much more methodical.” (109:48–111:21)
• Killing Bin Laden:
  “Point man takes a couple shots, his head disappears into the room...You just heard some guy answer to the name Khalid...We step over Khalid, and head up to the third floor.” (107:05–109:23)
  “He’s basically twitching at the foot of his bed. There’s two women in the room. … Yes, [I shot him in the body]. A couple.” (114:13–116:35)
• Aftermath and exfiltration:
  “I can shut my eyes and remember the sound of his hollow skull bouncing down the stairs as we drug him down...”
  “...the only reason we made it back: some Army kid who joined the Army to refuel helicopters.” (119:04)

Notable Quotes

• “We turned over the body to some Army Rangers, and they’re the ones who flew it out to the carrier and dumped it. ... He’s just simply gone.” — Matt on why bin Laden was buried at sea (124:16)

Immediate Aftermath & Impact (123:29–131:01)

• Returning home:
  “We landed back at the beach...Nobody ever meets you when you come home from deployment, but half the command was standing there with pizza and beer...” (124:12)
• Mental health & insomnia:
  “I see [my friend] the day after...He looks at me...‘Hey man, can I ask you a question?...Are you sleeping?’...‘No, I'm not sleeping.’...That was the single most emotional conversation I ever had with any teammate in 14 years.” (127:56)
• Lack of institutional care for mental health and operators:
  “Not one second...was any leadership ever worrying about the individual operator...Nobody ever asked that.” (129:10)

The Government’s Double Standard & Legal Ordeal (142:19–185:13)

Why Was Matt Targeted?

• Hypocrisy:
  “How does the government sue you for $7 million for writing a book, but the director of CIA has given full access to CIA HQ...for a movie?” (143:02)
• On McRaven, Panetta, and political priorities:
  “Admiral McRaven was at the command years ago, right before he was CO. He was not well-liked at all...He was very involved in trying to take away the dogs and ... all the stuff that helps keep us safe.” (133:05)

The Legal Battle

• Details of his defense and isolation:
  “Three years later, interrogations, all this nonsense...the only thing you failed to do was seek pre-publication review. But we want all the book money back.” (165:36)
• Financial repercussions:
  “I pay $3,800 a month for the next 15 years...I only served for 14. ... I got a plaque with my name misspelled.” (11:00, 233:41)
• Betrayal by the institution:
  “Here I am, right, Getting no help from the VA, and I don't know if it's because they said, hey, don't help this guy. Fuck him. I have no idea. ...I'd still be going to the VA for help.” (174:52)
• Loss of the brotherhood:
  “This brotherhood seems more like a school of sharks. And if there's blood in the water, they're coming after you. ...I care very little about it now.” (228:45)

The Trident Issue

• Attempt to strip him of SEAL status after leaving: “They did that to me too. Of course, I'd been out five years, and they came back and were like, hey, as part of this, we're going to. We want to take your...Trident.” (226:06)

Notable Moments & Quotes

• “This story needs to be told.”
  — Shawn and Matt, on fighting back against institutional bullying and government hypocrisy throughout the episode.
• On faith and struggle:
  "Maybe God just challenged me through the whole thing that I've been through with the government to see if I was going to turn into a little bitch or not." (10:08)
• On leadership and betrayal:
  "By the time I got out... every major officer I knew was writing themselves up for their own awards...I saw the rules of engagement slowly starting to change, right? Making things more dangerous for us." (77:44)
• On mental health in SOF:
  “We don't have PTSD. We have LTSD: Lack of traumatic stress disorder. ...For a decade, our day job...was to creep into the house...That was our norm. ...I turned in my ID card, left the base, and never got shot at again." (237:45)
• On the future:
  “If people want to help me, they can go to my website mattbissonette.com and order a book. … And that cuts out all the middlemen...” (232:23)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–04:43 | Matt’s introduction, why he’s coming forward now | | 04:48–12:54 | The No Easy Day controversy and the government’s legal response | | 20:28–24:30 | Unique Alaskan upbringing and origin story | | 31:01–44:38 | BUD/S, Green Team, and Red Squadron culture | | 49:21–71:49 | First deployments, joining Delta, loss, and team culture | | 81:08–131:01 | Operation Neptune Spear: planning, execution, aftermath | | 142:19–185:13 | Lawsuit, book issues, double standards, and losing the brotherhood| | 185:13–232:00 | Battle with the VA, publishing woes, and the upcoming book | | 232:01–243:54 | Future plans, faith, and closing reflections |

Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• Matt Bissonnette’s journey is one of front-line heroism met with post-service institutional betrayal, a story shared by many special operations veterans.
• He calls out the hypocrisy and double standards where accolades and media access go to high-ranking officers and politicians, but operators pay the costs.
• The episode stands as a stark challenge to the “quiet professionalism” dogma when used as a weapon against truth-tellers, rather than a shield to protect operational security.
• Matt’s story is ultimately one of survival, faith, and the need to reclaim the narrative, as he moves on to a new phase of life, vowing to speak for those without a platform.

For more from Matt, visit mattbissonette.com for updates on his book No Easy Way.

For support, mental health resources, and future podcasts, follow The Shawn Ryan Show.

Memorable Quotes with Timestamps

• “I've been fighting my own government for 12 years” – Matt (10:57)
• “Why did you conceal your identity?...I very much enjoy my anonymity…” – Matt (18:27)
• “I didn't want the story to be about me. It's irrelevant who wrote the book. It's like, let's hear the story.” – Matt (19:54)
• “That was the single most emotional conversation I ever had with any teammate in 14 years.” (127:56)
• “Nobody ever got. Nobody talked about it. Nobody talked about mental health.” (128:15)
• “The only way I sit here and smile and think about it now is thinking, maybe this was God just challenging me yet again...” (227:00)
• “I would have given anything for that team...Then I get out...this brotherhood seems more like a school of sharks.” (228:43)