#253 Chase Hughes - Real MKUltra Documents, Alien Deception and Simulation Theory

Summary

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The Shawn Ryan Show – Episode 253

Guest: Chase Hughes

Title: Real MKUltra Documents, Alien Deception and Simulation Theory

Release Date: November 13, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this captivating and candid conversation, host Shawn Ryan interviews Chase Hughes, a retired U.S. Navy chief, behavior profiling expert, bestselling author, and co-founder of The Behavior Panel on YouTube. Together, they explore the undercurrents of psychological operations (psyops)—how they shape society, foster division, and influence beliefs and identity. They delve into the mechanics of manipulation, the fate of institutional trust, secret government programs like MKUltra, alien narratives, simulation theory, and the role of technology and AI. Packed with memorable stories, scientific insights, and practical frameworks, this episode is an eye-opener for anyone questioning what (or who) is really pulling the strings in our information-saturated era.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Psyops and Digital Manipulation

• Algorithms & Isolation: Shawn describes modern algorithms as cages that reinforce our beliefs, noting the deep personalization and isolation this creates. Chase expands on how algorithms and psyops are narrative-driven methods to shape perception and behavior (02:18–03:26).
• Definition of a Psyop: According to Chase, a psyop is “narrative-driven control of perception with the aim of shaping behavior ... It’s more about identity than ideas.” (03:26)
• Collapse of Trust: Both discuss the historic low in public trust toward institutions and media, a result of apparent top-down manipulation and engineered division (04:09–05:04).

“It’s more about identity than ideas. And who you are.” – Chase Hughes (03:26)

2. Evolutionary Psychology & Social Media as Placebo

• Tribal Brains in a Modern World: Chase contextualizes human behavior via ancestral “tribe size” psychology—our brains are wired for social circles of ~150. Exceeding this capacity (modern cities, social media) triggers apathy, not connection (05:35–10:24).
• Placebo of Connection: Social media provides attention, not genuine connection, amplifying a global loneliness epidemic (10:26–12:17).
• FATE Model: Chase outlines the FATE model—Focus, Authority, Tribe, Emotion—as the four psychological levers for manipulation, drawing analogies with dog-training and social engineering (12:18–15:59).

“We are in a loneliness epidemic because what we’re getting is a placebo of social connection.” – Chase Hughes (10:26)

3. How Psyops Work: Principles & Execution

• Focus on Identity: Effective psyops don’t just target ideas; they rewire identity using incremental steps and “small agreements." Social commitment, as shown by Cialdini, makes manipulation easier (29:00–35:07).
• Perception Management: Manipulation begins with understanding an individual or a population’s needs (significance, acceptance, approval, etc.), then weaponizing corresponding insecurities (27:01–29:43).
• Case Study: Chase details experiments and real-world examples (e.g., Cialdini’s safe-driving sign experiment) demonstrating how small, identity-based cues can result in large behavioral shifts (30:06–35:07).

“If I can modify your perception, who you think you are, I have all your insecurities mapped out in a minute and a half.” – Chase Hughes (29:14)

4. Societal Division as a Psyop: The Mechanics of Us vs. Them

• Divide and Conquer: The duo discuss engineered tribalism along political, racial, and cultural axes. Social media algorithms and media reporting amplify division by showing extreme outgroup behavior, stoking outrage and reinforcing echo chambers (38:13–42:31).
• Maslow’s Hierarchy & Social Needs: Chase connects modern division to unmet psychological needs, noting how safety and belongingness influence the kinds of conflicts seen in advanced societies (44:42–46:53).
• Who Benefits from Division? While some suspect a global cabal, Chase suggests multifaceted causes—foreign actors, profit-driven corporations, and “just a byproduct” of systems designed for money and control (47:37–48:58).

"You have more in common with someone who voted for the other guy than the billionaire who is funding a lot of these ideas." – Chase Hughes (41:04)

5. Psyop Implementation, Signs, and Case Studies

• Execution Phases: Psyops begin with data collection—understanding target beliefs and social context in order to shift perception and engineer behavior. Chase shares examples from military and intelligence contexts (23:47–26:07).
• Signs of a Real Psyop: Chase lists clear signals, including:
  • Silencing dissenting opinions (20:25)
  • Making examples of dissenters to amplify tribal fear (21:16–23:21)
  • Manufacturing events that spike focus and emotion (“novelty”)
  • Use of authority figures and artificially inflated social proof (bot farms)
• FATE Model Applied: Regardless of context, manipulating focus, authority, tribe, and emotion remains fundamental (75:52–77:22).

"If an opinion has to be silenced for something else to flourish, you’re in a psyop, guaranteed." – Chase Hughes (20:25)

“Anything new generates focus.” – Chase Hughes (71:59)

6. Mainstream Media, Social Media, and Social Apathy

• Apocalyptic Algorithms: Exposure to constant violence and outrage on platforms like X/Twitter intensifies division, normalizes apathy, and triggers a “death of outrage”—it takes more shock to grab attention today (80:39–81:39).
• Normalization of Sociopathy: The endless highlighting of tribal violence breeds lack of empathy, especially in cities, creating atoms of social isolation and even celebration of public figure harm (85:31–86:42).
• Socialized, Minimized, Rationalized, Projected: Chase describes a four-step interrogation technique—socialize, minimize, rationalize, project—now deployed on populations via social media to normalize otherwise unthinkable behaviors (89:36–93:41).

7. Hypnosis, MKUltra, and Brainwashing

• Hypnosis Explained: Chase is a renowned hypnotist, discussing the neuroscience (GABA, homo vanillic acid), induction process, and powerful real-world applications (e.g., anaesthesia, behavioral change) (110:59–115:53).
• MKUltra & Government Experiments: He shares inside knowledge and documents on MKUltra and associated mind control programs, including “Manchurian Candidate” (alter ego assassination programming), Project Midnight Climax, and dissociative identity programming (118:47–126:59).
• Manchurian Candidate Methodology: Trauma, hypnosis, and suggestibility are used to implant alternate personalities and triggers, with trauma and expectation as keys (132:46–133:56).
• Realism & Danger: Chase stresses it’s not science fiction; brain “hacking” is relatively easy, and the majority of compliance comes from our wiring rather than advanced technique (135:03–135:36).

"It’s not hard ... If you could, without any trauma, any programming ... strangers will kill another stranger in 40 minutes, 67% ..." – Chase Hughes (135:08)

8. The Future: Artificial Intelligence, Deepfakes, and Trust Collapse

• AI as a Psyop Tool: Shawn and Chase discuss rapidly evolving AI—voice cloning, deepfakes, and video manipulation—and how these could devastate public trust, furthering an age of unreality (135:44–136:47).
• Hope in the Search for Real: Despite growing manipulation, Chase expects that a crisis of authenticity will push people to seek unfiltered, real human content and connections (137:12–138:14).

9. Simulation Theory, Psychedelics, and the Mysteries of Consciousness

• Is Reality Real? Deep conversation on the lack of scientific knowledge about consciousness, neural plasticity, and "simulation theory” as a plausible hypothesis—though not necessarily a computer-based one (144:05–149:56).
• Psychedelic Revelations: Both host and guest recount the power of psychedelics in deconstructing ego, dissolving division, and offering glimpses into consciousness beyond ordinary experience. Chase describes groundbreaking laser code experiments on DMT and research into IV DMT for explorations of consciousness (154:35–159:56).
• Language as a Parasite: Language, originally a transactional tool, is discussed as a simulation or even a kind of “parasite” that has shaped and restricted conscious communication (167:06–169:46).

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the Nature of Psyops:
  “A psyop ... is narrative-driven control of perception with the aim of shaping behavior. More about identity than ideas.”
  — Chase Hughes (03:26)

• On Social Media Loneliness:
  "We are in a loneliness epidemic because what we're getting is a placebo of social connection."
  — Chase Hughes (10:26)

• On Manipulation Techniques:
  “If an opinion has to be silenced for another idea to flourish, you're in a psyop, guaranteed.”
  — Chase Hughes (20:25)

• On Society’s Division:
  “You have more in common with someone who voted for the other guy than the billionaire who is funding a lot of these ideas ... stand in line at Walmart—you're not slapping each other in the face.”
  — Chase Hughes (41:04)

• On MKUltra:
  “The [CIA] discovered a way to create a Manchurian candidate ... I have access to the documents that survived the destruction order ... it’s not hard to do. You don’t need a bunch of advanced training.”
  — Chase Hughes (120:55–125:43)

• On Hypnosis:
  “Hypnosis is just a cool thing that we go into naturally. We’re trance machines ... our brains are hyperplastic, hyper suggestible.”
  — Chase Hughes (110:59–113:29)

• On Social Media Manipulation & Apathy:
  “We get exposed to so much content designed to inflame our mental state, that outrage starts dying and going away ... We need an extreme amount of novelty in order to spike that wave.”
  — Chase Hughes (80:39–81:39)

• On Simulation and Consciousness:
  “Do you think we’re in a simulation?”
  — Sean Ryan
  “I think this is a simulation. I don’t think it’s computer ... we’re using very limited perspective to make sense of something incomprehensible.”
  — Chase Hughes (144:07–144:26)

• On Psychedelics and Perception:
  “First time I saw [laser code on DMT], I wept ... the only thing you have coming out of that is like, what the hell did I just see?”
  — Chase Hughes (157:54–158:03)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Intro & Background (00:00–02:14)
• Definition & Purpose of Psyops (03:26–05:29)
• Tribal Psychology & Digital Loneliness (05:35–12:17)
• FATE Model, Manipulation, and Authority (12:17–21:10)
• Silencing, Fear, and Tribal Enforcement (21:10–23:33)
• Step-by-Step Psyop Planning (23:47–35:07)
• Division as Tactic—Case Studies (38:13–49:07)
• Algorithmic Outrage & Social Apathy (80:39–86:42)
• Four-Step Manipulation (Socialize, Minimize, Rationalize, Project) (89:36–93:52)
• Hypnosis, Neuroscience, MKUltra (110:59–126:59)
• Simulation Theory, Quantum Mechanics, and Consciousness (144:05–151:35)
• Psychedelics & Laser Code Phenomena (154:35–159:56)
• Conclusion & Reflections (169:46–end)

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Memorable, Candid Exchanges

• On Being Manipulated:
  “I'm as vulnerable as anybody else. Knowing about this stuff helps ... but truly understanding that we are hardwired ... makes decisions about things way before we think we make decisions.”
  — Chase Hughes (15:59)

• On Waking Up:
  “I think a lot of people are waking up ... but I don't think the waking up period is done. I think they're going to go twice as hard ... within the next year.”
  — Chase Hughes (57:37–58:43)

• On Manchurian Candidates:
  “A lot of the hard work is target selection ... The science is there and the science to hack the brain is only getting better. It's going to be a new world very soon.”
  — Chase Hughes (140:32)

• On AI and the Future:
  “AI is going to become so pervasive that all we're going to do is crave something real again.”
  — Chase Hughes (137:12)

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in behavioral influence, cognitive warfare, and the fragility of human perception. With a balanced tone of skepticism, expertise, and hope, Shawn and Chase leave listeners equipped to spot the signs of psyops, question digital narratives, and seek authentic human connections.

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For real-world frameworks, referenced documents, or the “FATE” and “FEAR” models, check out Chase’s book “Behavior Ops” and related links in the episode description.

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Transcript

[Chase Hughes]

Foreign.

[Sean Ryan]

Chase Hughes, welcome to the show, man.

[Chase Hughes]

Thanks, Sean. Good to be here.

[Sean Ryan]

It's good to have you. Love the stuff you put out.

[Chase Hughes]

Thanks, man.

[Sean Ryan]

So, yeah, so I've been. I'm pumped about this and man, you made it on short notice. Thank you. The perfect timing.

[Chase Hughes]

Thanks, man.

[Sean Ryan]

But, but yeah, I got a. I have a like a kind of like a docu audio series coming out on Psyops. You were one of the interviews in there and so really caught my interest just narrating that, that series that I did with Ironclad.

[Chase Hughes]

I heard a clip of this.

[Sean Ryan]

You already heard a clip?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, your guy said maybe. I hope I don't get him in trouble.

[Sean Ryan]

No, it's all good.

[Chase Hughes]

Your production guy sent me a clip that had me in there and it sounds fantastic.

[Sean Ryan]

Awesome.

[Chase Hughes]

It's like production level, like Hollywood level audio adventure through Psyops, man. It's very good.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you. Thank you. Well, thank you for being a part of it. It was all. It was awesome to do it.

[Chase Hughes]

My pleasure.

[Sean Ryan]

I've never done anything like that before.

[Chase Hughes]

It's good.

[Sean Ryan]

So thank you. Thank you. But yeah, so if anybody's interested, links in the description, you can sign up for it there. But everybody starts off with an introduction here.

Chase Hughes, a retired U.S. navy chief with 20 years of experience in military and intelligence operations.

Specializing in human behavior analysis.

Leading expert in behavior profiling, persuasion and influence. Having created some of the most advanced.

Training programs in the field.

Best selling author of books like the Ellipsis Manual, which dives deep into the engineering of human behavior and mind control techniques. A master trainer in hypnosis and body language, teaching elite skills in reading behavior. Co founder of the behavior panel on YouTube where you break down real world.

Body language and deception detection. With over a million subscribers today, we're.

Here to talk about Psyops.

I just talked about the target intelligence.

Psyop with ironclad that I did.

And like I said, that'll be in the description. But man.

There'S, there's a lot of.

I mean, nobody trusts anything anymore these days. It seems like there's no trust in the institutions, there's no trust in mainstream media. Maybe a little bit of trust within the older generations. And I mean, these algorithms put you into, you know, basically a cage of, of whatever they, whatever it thinks you want to see more of. And I mean, it's literally like a cage, man.

[Chase Hughes]

It is a perfect word for it.

[Sean Ryan]

It's like every, every other post you look at has to do with, you know, whatever. I wonder how personalized these algorithms are. I mean it's. I was thinking about asking some of the people on my team here if I could just take a look at their social media, but I was like, fuck. It's so pro.

It's so catered to the user.

It might be too much of a privacy concerned even broach the subject, hey, let me see your Instagram. I just want to see what's in here.

[Chase Hughes]

All these twerking videos.

[Sean Ryan]

But, but. So I mean, what, what is the definition of a psyop to you?

[Chase Hughes]

I think a psyop, when I use the term, is talking about a narrative driven control of perception with the aim of shaping behavior. So it's narrative driven. There has to be some kind of narrative or desired outcome. I'm just going to feed you something enough to where I have a desired outcome that I want you to do behaviorally. Want you to believe something, adopt some new belief, maybe take on some new identity of I am this type of person now and I do this thing now instead of ideas. So it's more about identity than ideas. And who you are.

[Sean Ryan]

Makes sense. Makes sense.

[Chase Hughes]

And I think we're at it. You said it. We're at this all time low in people's ability to feel trusting in the government. And can I, can I trust what the government's telling us? We've been through this. This whole Covid thing was just an unbelievably obvious. And that's the thing that it's starting to become more and more obvious over time, which I don't know why they're doing that. But if I had to make a huge guess, this is because the people that are people or organizations, whoever's behind a lot of this stuff, I think they're getting old and I think there's some narcissism there that's causing them to want this process to happen faster. So it happens during their lifetime.

[Sean Ryan]

What do you mean what happens?

[Chase Hughes]

Whatever desired end state that these people, which I can't predict and my theories would just be wild conjecture, but it's very obvious that we're being engineered to have this tribalistic us versus them mentality and all of these other things that are just built, just baked into everything. We can go as deep as you want to go on that.

[Sean Ryan]

I would love to go as deep, as deep as you can talk about this for a long time.

[Chase Hughes]

So. So let me start out just by introducing you to an ancestor of ours. They live in these tribal, almost nomadic tribes and the average tribe a hundred thousand years ago, we believe was 120 people or so. 150. 120 people. So pretty small social network, right? So you know everybody's names, you're familiar with everybody's behavioral habits and things like that. And there's a few things that kind of govern your life. And keep in mind that our brains haven't changed. The human brain itself has not evolved one more wrinkle since then. So it's, it's identical brain to a hundred thousand years ago.

[Sean Ryan]

Has it devolved?

[Chase Hughes]

There's no proof of that either.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay.

[Chase Hughes]

And, and that wouldn't, they would be measuring interior skull volume and, and things like that. So over the course of time, your ancestors, if they piss someone off in the tribe and they get judged by a lot of people in the tribe, they do something silly and they get some kind of judgment. They get excommunicated, they get exiled and kicked out of the tribe. This meant death. Like A, they're not going to have food and support anymore, water, all this other stuff that's very important to life. But B, they can't have sex anymore, they're not attractive to a mate anymore and now their genes die. So now it's not just death for me. It's a full death of my genetic bloodline. It's massive. And we hear people all the time say, well this public speaking is the number one fear of people. But speaking is never what people are afraid of. It's the judgment, the potential for judgment. Somebody's going to judge me, I'm going to get laughed at, I'm going to get kicked off the stage or something like that, that is hardwired into our nervous system and it's inside of the lower part of our brain. And if I can target the non human part of the brain, this mammalian mammal brain inside of our brain that governs your whole life. It's the thing that keeps your heart beating. It's the thing that if you say I'm going to hold my breath until I die, the reason that you can't is that part of your brain's in charge. It's either going to make you breathe or knock your ass out, you know. So this social fear, being afraid of what other people are going to think of me became weaponized, hardcore weaponized just in the last 15, 20 years with social media coming out. Our brains are wired to handle 120 people. And then social media becomes this placebo of connection.

[Sean Ryan]

What do you mean our brains are.

Wired to handle 120 people? I mean we can, I think the wall Street Journal just put something out very similar to this a couple days ago, saying that the human mind can only basically effectively handle 150 different relationships with people.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Is that what you're. Is that where we're going?

[Chase Hughes]

Yes. Okay, so it's. It's forge, foster, and maintain. Can I forge a relationship, Foster a new relationship with someone and then maintain it? So we're limited to about 150. And social media comes on the scene. Somehow that's triggering our need a little bit. It's fulfilling some need. It's like a placebo of social connection. And what happens, like, we have this city where there's a million people in a city and your brain can't handle more than 150. What do we do? We go into apathy. We go into absolute apathy. And this is where you get things like psychologists studying something called the bystander effect. Somebody's in public, they get stabbed or robbed or something. If there's lots of people around, people don't say anything, and they don't do anything because it's a diffusion of responsibility, and we care less and less and less every day. People are talking about all the stuff going on in Ukraine or whatever, but there's murders four blocks from your house and people being murdered. So we have an apathy for. For people that are around us. Once the tribe gets above a certain number and what social media is doing, and I'm not here to stand on a box and demonize social media, and I don't think anyone that created social media is not setting out to do this, but what social media is doing with this placebo effect is it's tricking our brains into feeling a little sense of connection, but we're confusing attention for connection.

[Sean Ryan]

Interesting.

[Chase Hughes]

And the second part of this is anybody watching the show right now on their iPad or whatever would agree that we are in a loneliness epidemic. The whole world, and we're more connected than ever. But we are in this loneliness epidemic because what we're getting is a placebo of social connection from social media, from all. All these apps and stuff like that. So back to this tribe. There are four things that we briefly. Or we went into in the audio series that you did with Ironclad. And this is. Spells out the word fate, because it is our fate. And this is focus Authority tribe and emotion. If I can hack your focus social media, if I can make you think that someone's an authority figure by. They have more views, they have more subscribers, they have more whatever. They got the blue check Mark, whatever it is tribe. If I can hack your feeling of tribe, then I can get you to do whatever I want you to do. Or I can get you to view norms as completely different because you're in a new tribe, us versus them mentality. And the emotional part, if you're looking at your social media, I'm not going to say the name of any one of them. But I'm sure you've scrolled through social media before. Like you see four or five posts that are just engineered to piss you off. Oh yeah, engineered. And then every once in a while you'll see a little one of those like videos where we're like, oh, we had this baby eagle land on our, our front porch and it shows the eagle and then it shows him bottle feeding it and then it shows him a little bigger and he's grown up and he's friends with him now. Like you get this little emotional kick and immediately when you scroll after one of those, you'll see an ad.

[Sean Ryan]

No.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Why?

[Chase Hughes]

There's a hypnosis phrase for this and in hypnosis they call this fractionation. If I can get your emotion to go up and then back down again, every time I take you back up just a little bit, just a tiny bit above water, the next time I pull you down, you'll go deeper. So like in hypnosis I might put you under hypnosis and then just wake you up from the neck up or maybe have you open your eyes just a little bit. So I'll pull you out of trance a little bit and then send you back down and pull you out and then send you back down. So it's proven that we'll go deeper and deeper and the same thing, same effect happens with social media and you'll see that, you'll see those spikes. And I think anybody that's, that has social media can start to become aware of this stuff. Like it's pissing me off, pissing me off, pissing me off. And then that weird video that like we're watching social media alone on the couch at night sometime and like then we randomly cry for some little rescued animal video or something and then we get an ad right afterwards.

[Sean Ryan]

Interesting, interesting. And so this placebo effect just rewinded just a little bit. You're, you're saying that we are.

[Chase Hughes]

We.

[Sean Ryan]

Are, we are mistaking attention on social media for connection, for actual connection. And it's, it's, it's serving as some type of placebo effect. Yeah. To, to take the place of the connection yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

And I think that's the root of what's going on, why we have this loneliness collapse around our world right now. But if you go back to this fate model, F A T E focus, authority, tribe and emotion, and you go watch an episode of like Cesar Milan, the dog whisperer, guy who trains dogs. He's got some celebrities dog that like bites people when, when they come in the house or whatever. What's the first thing that Cesar Millan does? Establishes the dog's focus. Second thing he does establish authority by taking control over the dog's space or by him owning a certain piece of space and not letting the dog come into this area. Third thing, tribe. Now we're going to go on a walk. The owner's going to come with us and the dog's going to walk with me. We're going to walk together. They will not walk in front of me. We're going to walk together. Enforce the sense of tribe. As soon as that's done, I'm going to pet the dog. I'm going to give the dog a treat. I'm going to tell him he did a great job. Maybe go watch a movie or something. Emotion. That's a mammalian brain. And it's the same whether you're training or manipulating a human or a dolphin, a monkey or a dog. That's that ancient system that's wired into us. And the scary part, what I think is scary is that there's no firewall. Like, we don't, we can't go download McAfee and, and put it in our head for making ourselves immune to this stuff. I'm as vulnerable as everybody else. Knowing about this stuff helps. And being able to see that, like you're scrolling through social media, you're like, whoa, I just, I finally saw that thing. That helps because it's kind of takes some power away from it. But truly understanding that we are hardwired, this little system, the limbic system, mammalian brain in our, in our head makes decisions about things way before we think we make decisions, and this is proven on MRI studies, that the mammalian part of our brain has already made the decision before we even make the actual decision.

[Sean Ryan]

No kidding.

[Chase Hughes]

So our decision making is also a placebo. It's already been done in the lower part of the brain. So the lower part of the brain's job is to make choices and decisions. The upper part of the brain, the. It's called the neocortex, which is Latin for new cover. That thing's job is to kind of take credit for making the decisions. But that's also where our ego lives and what makes us different than other primates and why we get Einstein and Mozart.

[Sean Ryan]

Interesting, interesting. Lot of dark stuff going on in the world right now.

And it's to the point where I don't even believe my own eyes anymore because I cannot verify or what people are saying about all the political violence. The division I partner with this production company called Ironclad, and we're doing an eight part audio series on psyops on why foreign countries, governments, maybe even our own government would conduct a psyop on its own people. And I just think that this series is going to be extremely important because it's going to open the eyes of people. People on why these things happen. You can head over to psyopshow.com order it today.

I think you're going to get a lot out of this.

Who's pulling the strings?

Who's pulling them? How much of what we see today do you think is an engineered psyop?

[Chase Hughes]

Give me an example. I think some.

[Sean Ryan]

What I mean would be, I mean, you know, this stuff really popped on my radar during COVID So I guess we can start with COVID you know. Oh my gosh, Covid, the. I mean, political violence, you know, that's like the big one, right? Charlie Kirk was just assassinated. Some people think it was the left, some people think it was the right, some people think it was Israel, some people think it was trans. You know, at least that's what it was at the beginning. A lot of questions going on about this guy that supposedly shot him. Did he? I don't know. You know what I mean?

[Chase Hughes]

I mean, super weird.

[Sean Ryan]

So, I mean, is that, Is that a. Is that a psyop? Is the Epstein shit a psyop? I mean, Ukraine, China, all, everything. It's just. It's to the fucking point. I, I don't believe anything that I.

[Chase Hughes]

It's.

[Sean Ryan]

It's so bad now I don't even know if I believe my own eyes.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, and that's good that you're. That you're starting to get that way. And I think so many people are waking up because they made it way too obvious during COVID which is a good thing. I'm glad they did it because it woke up so many people where they started doing this crazier and crazier and crazier and people are like, whoa, the government's doing this. So I think that helped people wake up. But what I meant was, with an example, there are some things that people call a psyop like this algorithm. Like, oh, the algorithm's engineering your behavior. The algorithm's job is to make you buy stuff and make you see ads, and that's where money comes from and revenue. So the algorithm says after this and this type of thing, they tend, people tend to click this buy now button for this flannel shirt. Right. So since we do that, I'm going to start doing that more. And the algorithm continuously learns and I think there's a tendency for a lot of people to think that a lot of this stuff is these dark forces sitting around a marble conference table at night smoking cigars, like planning this stuff. I think a lot of the stuff that we see online is the result of these algorithms doing what makes revenue. I think it's an EBITDA revenue focused algorithm. But with the other stuff, if, when it comes to psyops, there's a few ways to tell if something is a psyop. And number one, the, the most important thing for anybody to learn is that if an opinion has to be silenced for something to, for another idea to flourish, then you're in a psyop, guaranteed.

[Sean Ryan]

We've seen a lot of that lately.

[Chase Hughes]

A ton.

[Sean Ryan]

A lot of that.

[Chase Hughes]

The dude. There were Harvard educated doctors banned from social media for openly speaking about stuff that's. Now we've, we've shown to be true Harvard educated doctors. The dude who invented MRNA went on Rogan because he got kicked off of Twitter, I think. I don't remember what it was. So there were. The moment you see someone being silenced and it's an opinion from somebody who should have some kind of social authority, that's a big deal. And that should be terrifying to you, to anybody that, that is witnessing that.

[Sean Ryan]

Seen a lot of that in the past couple of years too.

[Chase Hughes]

There's been a ton.

[Sean Ryan]

A lot. Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

And the, the interesting thing is what that does with our social media, kind of hacking that tribal part of our brain. If all of us were sitting here in a room and we see someone get pulled up in front of the whole crowd and then smacked out, smacked in the face, embarrassed, and then tossed out of the room. And we were, I was about to go up on stage and do that, I'm like, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to be quiet now. I don't want that to happen to me.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

So now we're using that, that tribalism as I'm going to take this person and I'm going to make an example out of them to prevent everybody else from stepping Up. I'm going to increase fear associated with social. Being socially outcast.

[Sean Ryan]

Man, this happened to me when. We've always dealt with some. A little. Not. Not always. Ever since, you know, the new administration's in, I. We haven't really had any issues. But I mean, I remember we had Jim Caviezel on. It was during that, you know, Sound of Freedom movie came out. A lot of people hated that movie, right? Yeah, dude. They just. The episode just disappeared.

[Chase Hughes]

Your episode just got pulled down.

[Sean Ryan]

Like, woke up one day gone.

[Chase Hughes]

Wow.

[Sean Ryan]

I think it's because he talked about. Which apparently is like a forbidden topic. Right? But yeah, just woke up, it was gone. We have re uploaded. But this happens to everybody and not everybody. It happens to a lot of people.

[Chase Hughes]

To tell you how pervasive this is, the moment you mentioned that word in association with the, the video being like deleted from YouTube, I was like, oh, Sean's gonna get our show kicked off the Internet.

[Sean Ryan]

No, I'm gonna bleep that word.

[Chase Hughes]

Okay, good. Okay. But that was my, My first reaction was like, oh, no, we're. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be outcast or some little piece is gonna be outcast because of this. So I had that fear while you and I are talking about some people exploiting that fear. And I'm the guy, I'm. I'm the guy who teaches.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

Psyops and army psyops who do this for good reasons, hopefully how to do a lot of this stuff. And I'm not immune to any of it.

[Sean Ryan]

So.

Can you kind of, you know.

Can you, could you walk us through the planning and execution of a, Of a psyop from. From start to end?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. So phase one is target data collection. So what I want to do is figure out the basic behaviors and beliefs of this person. So I want to see what they, what their perception is and what context they find themselves in. So let me, let me give you an example. Do you shower in the morning or at night?

[Sean Ryan]

Both.

[Chase Hughes]

You're a two time a day guy.

[Sean Ryan]

Sometimes. All right, well, in the morning.

[Chase Hughes]

Okay.

[Sean Ryan]

In the morning.

[Chase Hughes]

All right, so if it's, if it's a morning shower, then I'll say sometime within the next 24 hours, you're going to take all your clothes off.

[Sean Ryan]

Right.

[Chase Hughes]

But you won't do it on a podcast, and that's because of context. So if I can figure out a way to make you, to shift the context in your mind, I can get you to do anything. Like, you're not going to take a gun, right? Now and shoot me. Right. But if the context was different and I was like running at you with a knife or something, then you would. So if I shift context, I can get desired behavior out of any human being. As a just a weird example of this, there was a lawyer in Washington state who was arrested because he learned hypnosis and then started using hypnosis on these people in his office. And there's a woman who'd been seeing this office, this lawyer, and he was hypnotizing her. And she noticed one day that her bra was misplaced, like kind of pushed to the side a little bit, and that he had, like, helped her redress or like put her clothes back on. So she brought a recorder in there and figured out that this guy would put her under hypnosis and say, and now you're coming home, it's the end of the day. You're taking out your car keys and put them in that bowl. You walk to the bathroom, you turn that hot shower on. And now the context has shifted. So perception and context are the biggest target acquisition. Target data acquisition there. So how do they see the world? And what is the context where my. The desired behavior that I want? What is the context where that behavior is automatic or natural? Does that make sense?

[Sean Ryan]

Kinda.

[Chase Hughes]

Okay, so first I want to get perception. So this is, how does this person see the world? And if I can modify your perception.

[Sean Ryan]

How do you figure out how that person sees the world?

[Chase Hughes]

So beliefs first, values, identity and tribalism. Okay, so like, what's important to them? What's important to the tribe versus the individual? Because those are always different things. And then in what context? So whatever the desired behavior that I want, what is the context that would make that desired behavior automatic?

[Sean Ryan]

Okay, let's backtrack a little bit more. Yeah, so you're looking for, you're trying to figure out somebody's perception of the world. So what is. When you are, when you are researching that and putting pen to paper, what does that look like? How do you start that? And what are you documenting?

[Chase Hughes]

I tend to want. I tend to look for. And this is me the. There are six needs, and I want to look for individuals in society. And where are most of them on this needs map? And this is. Those six needs are significance. I need to do something so I can feel the most significant person in the room. Acceptance. So this is more where it's kind of a tribe of people. I pride myself on being part of a team. So significance, acceptance, approval and approval. Having a social. And these are all social Needs, a social need for approval is that friend that we all have that's like, oh, I got that job interview tomorrow and I know I'm going to suck at it. I suck at everything. And just to get you to go be like, no, no, it's okay. You're going to do fine. You did great last time. You're tremendously confident. You're overqualified. So that's kind of the approval type of person. And the final three are intelligence, pity, and strength. So intelligence means I need to do something where other people are going to see me as intelligent. And then pity is like they're asking the question, like, do other people realize how bad I've had it or how much I've been through? And the strength and power person at the end is, can I behave in such a way where no one will ever challenge me? So I'm going to show a lot of posturing. Kind of like the false alpha male syndrome.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay, A lot of that.

[Chase Hughes]

So if I. And the cool thing is, even in a conversation, one on one, you can spot someone's needs, usually within a minute and a half. And if I know the person is, let's call it an acceptance need person, I automatically know that their social fear is being outcast, being judged, or feeling some kind of social guilt.

[Sean Ryan]

No shit. So it's one or the other of the stuff that you meant. Or could there be more?

[Chase Hughes]

You could have one of those with a secondary.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay.

[Chase Hughes]

So you typically have a primary and secondary.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay.

[Chase Hughes]

But if I know that you're go. If your need is being significant, I automatically understand that your deepest insecurities are about feeling small, insignificant, like you don't matter to anybody and you have no impact.

[Sean Ryan]

Oh, God.

[Chase Hughes]

So I know instantly just by understanding your. You're on you on this needs map. I know where your fears and your insecurities are better than. Probably your therapist that's been working with you for a year and it's been a minute and a half in a conversation. So a cult recruiter could use this as easily as a psyop doing it on an entire group of people.

[Sean Ryan]

Are there any of these traits that the majority of folks have? Needs.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. So when I. When I teach people this, and the system that I teach is called nci, it's neurocognitive intelligence. When I teach people this, I always default to significance and acceptance. You are important people. Like you, those two things are the most easy to sway a person's behavior with.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay.

[Chase Hughes]

Because the two biggest fears are I don't matter. People don't like me.

[Sean Ryan]

Gotcha.

[Chase Hughes]

Right? So once you figure out the needs, then you have those insecurities, and then you want to figure out a plan to weaponize or leverage those insecurities. And we'll typically do this in small ways, so kind of view it as a wedge. And the small things that we do matter a lot on the end. And if I could go into, like, nerd mode, I'm going to talk about a piece of research here. And Bob Cialdini, he wrote the book called Influence, and he wrote another book called Pre Suasion. Fantastic books. He's a research expert for Influence, Human Influence. They went around these. Let me explain this to you. Let's say we have two neighborhoods here, one neighborhood here, one here. They're all the same demographics. They make the same amount of money. It's middle class. And they go to one neighborhood, door to door, and they ask them, will you put this giant ugly ass please drive safe sign out in your front yard? And in this one neighborhood, 1% of people, give or take, says yes. Then they go to this other neighborhood and they say, will you put this giant ass sign out in your yard that says, please drive safe? In the other neighborhood, 89% of people said yes. The only difference is in this other neighborhood, before they asked him to do the sign, they went around a week in advance and asked everybody one simple question. Do you support safe driving? And who's going to say no? No, I don't do that. Of course, everybody says yes. And the moment they say yes, they say, I'm so glad. Thank you. The survey is finished. And would you mind placing this tiny sticker on a window that's facing the street that says drive safe? It's like that big, like one of those little alarm company stickers, right? So my stomach is making noise. I hope it's not coming through on the mic. We can keep it in if you want. So in this, what they did was, do you support safe driving? So now I've got you to make a social commitment because there's two of us standing here at your doorstep. So you've just told someone who you are as a human being. Next. Now that you've said that, I asked you to do this, and it's not that big of a deal, but a week later, I come to your house and ask you to put this ugly sign in your yard, and you say yes, because of this chain of commitments that I've got you to go through. And it's not just commitment, it's me Getting you to agree who you are as a person, so you kind of roll along with that identity. So at the beginning of our conversation, if I was an intelligence operator and I wanted to manipulate you, I might talk about my social anxiety when I was a kid. When I was like, 19, I had crazy social anxiety. I didn't. I felt like a fake everywhere I went. And. But if I started a conversation talking about that and then I was like, sean, how did you get to the point of being this, like, open with other people? And the moment you answer my question, I've got you to agree to the next behavior that I need to get you to do this. Make sense how? So I'm starting to pull you out of the box. So I just got you to agree that you are A, not closed off. You're B, you're going to talk about your. Your past. So I've woven it into your identity in just this conversation. I mean, if you talk someone into being open, they're not going to live the rest of their life open, but you've got them to commit in this little conversation. So the moment I want to go a little outside the box, or I want to start talking about intelligence or something like that, you're more likely to do it because I've got you to make that first identity agreement about who you are as a human being just by asking you that. Or I might complain about people who are really closed off. I might say, you know, there's so many people out there, they just live their lives in this little prison, worried about what other people think. And people will nod their head just like that. And the moment you nod your head, you're like, yep, but what are you silently agreeing to? That's not me. I'm not that person. So we get these little identity agreements, and then you understand those negative needs, and you can leverage so much with human behavior. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, A tiny piece of this. But for a psyop plan to finish this incredibly long answer to your question is, I want to do data acquisition. Figure out needs which automatically give me insecurities and fears. And the moment that happens, figure out context, my desired context that makes the behavior I want out of you automatic or completely expected.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow. And. But this also happens on entire populations.

[Chase Hughes]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

And so, you know, when you're looking for a need, I mean, the entire population doesn't have the same need. Sounds like the majority of people, you know, accept it in significance. But so how would you. What would differ when you are when you're doing a campaign against the foreign.

[Chase Hughes]

Government, if you're doing it against the government, you're still targeting the people, right? So targeting the people would mean that you're getting them to make small agreements. So I'm not going to drop leaflets or do radio broadcasts or any of that kind of psyop stuff right away that say, hey, you need to convert to this side and adopt these new beliefs. The first one is like, and let me give you an intelligence example of this. There was a guy working in Guantanamo who almost got turned by one of the prisoners down there. And it all started with one of the prisoners asking him one question. That was the beginning. It was this one question. He said, do you think America is perfect? And that was the start. And it was a long chain after that. Has America ever made mistakes? Has America ever hurt people that didn't deserve it? Is that true? I was just reading in the library that America gave smallpox to the Native Americans. So it's just this long trail. So you always think about, like, these little steps. What are the steps to make this one thing feel natural? And when I was learning this, one of the guys who taught me said that, walked me through the scenario, and he said, imagine going on a date and you never shook this girl's hand. You never helped her through a door, you never put your hand on her shoulder, nothing. You haven't made any physical contact with her. And at the end of the night, you lean in and try to kiss her. And it feels weird, it feels off, it doesn't feel right. It's because nothing happened before that. So what we're really doing and what we're really seeing in today's world is these small, incremental steps to change human identity to some ultimate outcome. And the steps that we can see if we kind of backwards analyze this, we're seeing division and tribalism on unprecedented levels. So if I'm left wing or if I lean way left, even moderately to the left, and I go on social media and start scrolling my feed, I'm going to see people on the right still on my feed. But the type of people that I see that are on the right are going to be the dumbest loudmouth morons that you could ever imagine just to piss me off. If I'm a conservative, I'm going to go on there and see the dumbest idiots that you could ever imagine just to make. Make it me feel morally superior and make me feel intellectually superior for having chosen this path and drive.

[Sean Ryan]

Drive a.

A more intense Hate.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

The. To the. To the other side.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. And we. We talked about. Before we started filming, you and I talked about psychedelics and how it dissolves this feeling of separation, and it seems to be the opposite is what's happening now. It's just massive amounts of separation. How many times and from how many objects and groups can I get you to separate yourself from? It's the opposite of. I mean, this. It is so divisive that I think we are seeing levels like, I think 20 years ago, 10 years ago, if you ask someone if somebody should be killed for their opinion or for having offensive opinions, I think 99.9% of people would say, no, that's ridiculous. But now it's acceptable, and it's only acceptable because the idea became identity. So it's idea, then ideology and then identity. And this is the pathway. You walk anyone down in a psyop. Idea, ideology, identity. And we adopt an ideology like, oh, I agree with these beliefs. We need to pay people who can't afford it. We need to do this program. We need to instill this one thing in the school, whatever it is. So now I'm starting to adopt an ideology. And the moment that happens, now I have a little tribe of people that agree with me all over social media. And now it's identity. Because someone posts something that's very political, but I believe in it so much that I post it. And now the first day, the first week that I start posting that content, now my identity changes. And. And just like in a conversation, when I said, sean, how'd you get this open? Or look at these other people that are really closed off, that's the exact same thing that's happening on social media. It's identity. So it's rewiring how I see myself, which means that I can take drastic measures to enforce it because it's part of who I am. It's not what I believe, it's who I am as a person. And you imagine, like, you've been an operator for a while. You viewing yourself as an operator is who you are as a person. That's why you could do this, and that's why you did that. It wasn't because, like, I have a lot of really good ideas in my head. I have. My training was great. It's you. Your confidence was in yourself and not the ideas. So the moment I get someone to place all of those ideas into identity, we take morality off the table and it's getting worse.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, no kidding. What are. I mean, what are the biggest divisions that you see happening right now?

[Chase Hughes]

Well, obviously the left versus right is the biggest. And the one thing that I would want everyone in the world to hear is when it comes to all the, all the shit we see on Twitter or Facebook or Instagram, whatever it is, you have more in common with someone who voted for the other guy than the billionaire who is funding a lot of these ideas and ideologies that you're seeing on social media. You have way more in common. You see these idiots on tv, whether they're left or right, based on who you are in real life. And the algorithm is showing you the opposite right, the idiots on the other side, that's not real. That's a tiny percentage of the population, a tiny one. I think if you go to like Walmart or Target and you're standing in line and you see somebody that's on that voted for the other person, they're not an asshole, they're not slapping you in the face. And we have so much in common with each other. Like, we all want fair income. We all want to, we all hate taxes. We all want our kids to be safe. We all want our kids to be well fed. We want to be able to have fun and not pay too much taxes. Like, we have so much in common with those people. We have nothing in common with a lot of these elites who are kind of orchestrating a lot of the, that we're seeing on social media.

[Sean Ryan]

Oh, 100% agree with that. Yeah, 100 agree with that.

[Chase Hughes]

I've studied hypnosis for 25 years and I work with one on one clients. I work with Formula One athletes, I've worked with pro fighters, UFC champions, PGA golfers. The one thing that I've noticed when I'm working with all of these people is that the moment that we, we start understanding that everything, every time I'm looking at other person there, they are scared like I am, they're lonely like I am. And all of these things that we, that all of us hide from the rest of the world, I'm lonely. I'm scared things aren't going to go right for me. I don't know if things are going to work out. I have to hedge everything. Are my kids going to be okay? All the stuff we worry about, we have that in common with everybody. And I don't know, this is like, so I don't want this to turn into a Mr. Rogers episode, but we really got to come back and, and realize that we have to understand that we've got more in common with those People than the. Than the elites.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, I think it's definitely not going to be a Mr. Rogers episode. But, you know, I mean, so you know it. Everybody hears the term, you know, divide and conquer. Divide and conquer. Divide and conquer. We've heard it several times, you know, all by design. Heard that several times. Yeah, but, you know, I mean, who. Who. I guess what I'm asking is we are divided on so many things. Yeah, it's, it's, it's. It's red versus blue. It's black versus white. It's Christian versus non Christian. It's. I mean, it's. It's LGBTQ or not. It's, it's just, it's.

Man, it's everywhere. Everywhere you look, you can't find anything.

That'S not division anymore. Race, religion, politics.

[Chase Hughes]

I have a theory about this, if you'll allow. If you'll indulge me.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

Here, if. Are you familiar with Maslow's pyramid? Maslow's hierarchy of needs?

[Sean Ryan]

No.

[Chase Hughes]

So it's a hierarchy of what we need to kind of survive basically as humans. And there's a few levels to it. The bottom is just survival. Above that is safety, and above that is love and belonging. And then it's self esteem and then actualization, like I'm living my purpose in life. If we have a few of these pyramid levels met, we will always worry about the next one up. You with me so far? Yeah. Okay. So we've got kind of the survival and safety met. Like, you're not going to see debates about gender in a country where people are starving. It will never happen. You're only going to see the next level that people are worried about on the Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. So if we have our survival met, our safety is met, the next thing up is social and belonging. And that's where we get that placebo. That's where we get that little placebo. And the way since we're not fulfilling that, that gets to be something that occupies us. So we focus on what makes us different. I have to isolate myself and I have to find a tribe of people who believe in this one small thing that I believe in. Now I'm going to try to divide myself as much as possible. When you have societies that are high up, that have all the belonging stuff handled, the next thing is esteem. So if belonging feels like it's met our self esteem and our definition of who I am as a person, that stuff has got to be conquered. That's the next thing. And all that we're seeing now is like, I have to identify with this one thing to increase my feeling of esteem. Even though the social part of that pyramid isn't being met, we're kind of jumping over it. And we can never get to the esteem part because social can no longer be fulfilled.

[Sean Ryan]

Gotcha. Okay. Okay. What?

[Chase Hughes]

Why?

[Sean Ryan]

What is the point of the division? I mean, it. I get it creates broken society. Nobody can agree on. Nobody gets along. Yeah, we'll stand. Essentially, a nation stands for nothing because it's so divided. Totally understand that. Who wants us divided and why? You know, at the beginning, you were talking about nine people at a marble round table. Do you think that's what it is? Or is it Russia, China, anybody? You know, all these foreign actors? Maybe, maybe, maybe. I mean, obviously not just maybe. Obviously, you know. Yeah, not all foreign actors. Yeah, a lot of them coming from in conus.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. I don't have many theories when it comes to this, but I think there are some elites that have put some desired end goals out there to people that work for them or people that do their bidding. And I think this is just a byproduct of those end goals needing to be met. Some of that's military industrial complex, and some of that is another country wanting our economy to start kind of getting crippled a little bit. But I think that it's multifaceted. And I think that anybody who comes up and says, oh, it's this one guy, it's this one guy at the World Economic Forum, or it's this one guy who does this thing, I don't think that's the case. I think a lot more of this is just a byproduct of companies needing money than people really understand. I think a lot of it is this just companies doing things and engineering outcomes where they can get money. It just so happens that this might be that the end. But you hear people talk about the great reset and all that, which I'm no expert in any of those, like, international politics stuff, but that's terrifying to me to hear people talk about that kind of stuff.

[Sean Ryan]

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[Chase Hughes]

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All right, Chase, we're back from the break. We're getting ready to talk about, you know, what all the division, you know, we hear it divide and conquer. We con, you know, gone through, you know, some of the division that we're seeing. Why though? Why what, what's the plan after all the division? Is it just a broken country?

[Chase Hughes]

I think it is. I think that's the desired in state.

[Sean Ryan]

That's what I think. I think it's just a. Nobody's going to come in here and occupy this and try to take over.

[Chase Hughes]

With Operation American Freedom.

[Sean Ryan]

There's, there's so many guns. I mean it would be, it would make all the places that I've been to look like a complete joke.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

You know, nobody, nobody could come in here and occupy, but you could disrupt it, turn us against each other and then, and then we have no relevance in the world. No influence, no relevance, nothing.

[Chase Hughes]

There was a KGB guy. Do you remember this video it was in from the 90s, I think. Yuri something Besmanov. Yeah. And he talked about that plan that to destabilize and then replace the education system with a different education system. Infiltrate college professors first and all of like the big thinkers of the society. And this was in the 90s. And he's kind of describing the process we're going through right now today. That was terrifying for me to watch, man. But yeah, I think that's the overall goal. And I think that the one thing that I've always, I would say the biggest transformation I've ever made in my life was psychedelics. Was like going through psychedelic therapy. And the one thing is like, it's not, it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal. And that is like the, one of the biggest lessons that I've ever gotten from anytime I've ever done psychedelics and I think that's the approach that we've got to take with all of this, like, division and this rhetoric. And I think if you. If somebody tries out a social media fast and just for like 20 days, try it out and just don't go on social media and it will change your life. Because we've got stuff like TikTok now. You know what the kids in China see on TikTok?

[Sean Ryan]

Oh, yeah, they're. They're solving math equations and physics and.

[Chase Hughes]

How to strengthen educational.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, here it's all tits, ass, booze, division, hate. Yeah, it's. It's porn, violence, Violence.

[Chase Hughes]

And if. If that doesn't tell you exactly what's happening in. On in the world, then you need to look somewhere else or you need to figure this out. If you look at if China has control of TikTok or Chinese interests have control of TikTok, and we're seeing all of that stuff, and they're seeing stuff that's fantastic for them and beneficial to them as a society. Like, that's a psyop. It's clear as day. It's not some theory. It's obvious. And it's like right in our faces. And it's as much as it's in our face, as much as it was during COVID when we had people speaking from borrowed authority, that we need to trust the science. Why aren't you trusting the science, Sean? Which put two masks on today. All of that kind of stuff that we endured, it was just so. That's why so many people woke up, because it was accidentally way too obvious. And I'm glad that it was.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you think that there is. I mean, are we done with the waking up period? Do you know what I'm getting at? I mean, we've heard this for so long. Oh, you need to wake up. You need to wake up. You're asleep. You're asleep at the wheel. You need to wake up. You don't know what's going on. I mean, I feel like so much shit has happened in the past four, five, eight years that in my opinion, the waking up was done a long time ago. I mean, do you think people are still waking up realizing they've been lied to? That can't trust the government, you can't trust the institutions, you can't trust the mainstream media. You can't trust. You can't trust much of anything these days.

I understand, too.

Entire generations have just had their world flipped completely upside down because they had put so much trust in institutions and our government and media I think at.

[Chase Hughes]

A certain level, like people like my parents, probably your parents, place a large amount of trust in the government, a large amount of trust in the news, because that was the only source for so long. And it just became habitual, it became based in identity. Like if you don't trust what they're saying, what the FDA is telling you, who are you going to trust? So, like, I'll hear that from like my dad and I think that's woven into identity. But I think that I don't think the waking up period is done at all. I think it's, they're going to go twice as hard. And I think within the next year, if we look at standard psyops, if the psyop isn't working, there's either A double down or B, stop. And I think they're going to double down.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you think they're going to double down?

[Chase Hughes]

Oh, yes. And I think it's going to happen in the next 12 months. So why do you think it's going.

[Sean Ryan]

To happen within the next 12 months?

[Chase Hughes]

There's too many people waking up. When Elon bought Twitter and a lot of this stuff, there's tons of misinformation and all that stuff all over social media. But I think that enabled so much data to come out that people are going to start saying just a little bit of a backpedal, just pump the brakes a little bit on my trust in institutions and things like that. And I think it's enough that more people are going to wake up, we're going to have a lot more people in the next year because I think it's going to get a lot more obvious.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, what are some of the psyops you see going on today? Let's, let's, let's bring up the alien ufo. Uap shit. Is that a psyop? Do you think that's a psyop?

[Chase Hughes]

I think.

[Sean Ryan]

Is that building a psyop?

I mean, we've heard about Project Bluebeam. I think that's what, that's the false flag alien invasion that's supposedly coming. I'm not throwing it out there like it's some crazy conspiracy idea because at this point I'm like, shit, probably, yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

It would just make sense. Like when the New Jersey drones were happening, I think right before the election or whenever that was. That was insane. And I, I put a video out on that and how we are in the middle of a psyop, but it's not the craft. I don't, I'm not sitting here Saying like these little tic tacs and all that stuff, or a bunch of psyops. The response to it, I think, is a psyop because you have the response how, how we see people online responding to it. We see people going out on podcasts and stuff that have talking points from the government. And if you have someone that has talking points from the government that's a spokesperson, not a whistleblower, it's very different. And so if, if I'm sitting here and I say, well, I can't say this, but I can, I can tell you this one thing that's government release of, that's a controlled government release of information in my, in my estimation. And so, yeah, I think the, the public perception management, which is the first step of psyops, if you remember, is perception and then context. Right. That we're managing the way that our perception of the UFO UAP thing is being managed is absolutely asyop.

[Sean Ryan]

So they, they are creating the perception.

[Chase Hughes]

Yes, correct.

[Sean Ryan]

Yes, creating the perception. And then they're going to, they're going to give us the next thing.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. You had a retired admiral, I think, here, Tim Gallaudet. Yeah. A couple weeks ago, he was talking about that email that got deleted.

[Sean Ryan]

Wait a minute, different admiral.

[Chase Hughes]

He was the oceanography guy, Tim Gallaudet.

[Sean Ryan]

You probably saw a clip.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. Talking about an email that got deleted about the, the Tic Tac UFO thing that somehow got leaked. And I've seen so many people come out and say, like, I'm allowed to say this and I'm not allowed to say that. And that's not what a whistleblower does. And I get it that there was a huge example made out of Snowden. But I think that the way we're. If our perception is being managed, then, then we are in a psyop. Guaranteed. We're in a psyop. So all this started with a guy named Edward Bernays.

[Sean Ryan]

Edward Bernays.

[Chase Hughes]

Edward Bernays. He was the guy that invented the term PR and he changed the term from propaganda to public relations. He just changed the word propaganda. He was the guy. He's the reason our butter or margarine got dyed yellow. He's the reason that we think bacon is part of an American breakfast, because the pork industry needed to sell more bacon. He's the reason the Department of War was changed to the Department of Defense. He's the reason that women started smoking Virginia Slims back in the 70s when it was inappropriate for women to smoke. So he organized a parade called Torches of Freedom where women would go and smoke in the street and just say F you to everybody. And just, he changed it, changed the perception as like this is a symbol of freedom and I'm going to smoke. So he was the, the biggest propagandist in probably in the last four or five hundred years like in the world. So he, he manipulated a lot of economic stuff. He had a lot to do with the United Fruit Company which is down in South America, which you may have heard of in Panama. But this guy invented all of these processes to shape perception and change how people behave. And he was actually Sigmund Freud's nephew and he wrote a lot about this propaganda stuff. And his best selling book that he wrote about all of this is called Crystallizing Public Opinion. And in this book he talks about grabbing a hold of somebody's focus, establishing some kind of authority. And I'm using my own words here, but it's that same exact process. So if you think of that fate model that we talked about, F A T E, fate, focus, authority, tribe and emotion, that's our hardware. There's another set of influencing factors for the human side of the brain, the software part, but that controls our hardware and with everybody, we have all the same hardware, identical, almost identical hardware. And that's all you need to take control of a human brain. It's like, can I establish the focus? Are they doing that with the UFOs? Do they harness our focus? Are there people of authority coming out? Is there a sense of tribe involved with that? There's UFO communities, there's subreddits, but if you, if I like a couple of UFO things on the Internet, I'm going to get fed like crazy amounts of UFO stuff online. And then there's emotional stuff and then we have like the emotional anticipation of some of these videos that says John Smith is going live tonight at 7. He's going to expose everything. New secrets you've never heard before and of course nothing happens. So it's if I can harness the power of F A T E then I can control a total society.

[Sean Ryan]

What's some of the most successful psyops you've seen conducted that are complete now that you could maybe dive us in that we could dive into and you could explain from start to finish what the end product was.

[Chase Hughes]

Our school system was one of the biggest and how westernized systems of elementary, middle and high school were organized when the US was first getting started. This guy, I can't remember his name but he was, he was in charge of this stuff. So he is going to be the first head of the Department of Education and create this education system that's going to be nationwide. He goes and learns, he goes, he flies to Europe and learns from all these people who develop something called the Prussian education system, which in, in the Department of Education's founding documents, which were some written by this guy, was turn schools into factories that make good workers. I'm paraphrasing that, but the word factories was there. School is just a factory to manufacture people for the workforce and people that are obedient and all of this. So the Prussian education system was meant so that workers are manufactured and people didn't question the king. That was the big thing. So if I have to get a whole country to adopt a system that's probably not in your best interest, then I've got to do some work with pr. I've got to work with this Edward Bernays guy, maybe, or I've got to do something to get people to adopt that belief. So this system was made like standing up in the morning was the first thing we do every day. I pledge allegiance to the flag every day. And then we sit down, we were told what to do, where to sit. We don't really do a lot of creative thinking. Can you memorize this? And can you spit it back out? Can I teach you this one thing? Can you spit it back out? Let me teach you geometry so you can cut wood or so that you can square off a corner when you become a kitchen remodeling guy, whatever that is that the adoption, the way that our country adopted that is one of the most successful psyops ever. And I mean, you eat pretty healthy, I would imagine. And do you eat based on the food pyramid? No, we get like nine loaves of bread a day or whatever it tells you to eat. No, that's another great example of that where, like, it's still standing, it's still there. And we know that it's not the right way to do it. And we know that different people need different diets, but there's still a food pyramid there. And that was from Edward Bernays, again, who kind of invented that. So all of these programs that we consider parts of our everyday life and we consider like, oh, that's an American tradition. A lot of those were originated through some kind of psyop. So when it comes to, like, am I in a psyop? We have to define that term a little more narrowly because if you're watching an infomercial, you're in a psyop. So everything's trying to influence your behavior to buy something or do this. But I would say, like, when it comes to commercials and stuff, those are all psyop. And all advertising in Western society has two goals. Number one is make you feel like you're not enough yet. And number two is to make you compare yourself to other people. And if it does that well enough, then you'll go get it. And if a commercial can take control of fate, all of your factors on the fate model, then it'll get you to take action every single time. And just to give you an example, like, have you heard of the Milgram experiment?

[Sean Ryan]

No.

[Chase Hughes]

So this happened in Yale. I'll give you the short version, 1962, I think this World War II is over. These Nazis are on trial in Nuremberg, and they're asked, like, why did you do what you did? And they're saying, I was just following orders. So this guy at Yale, Dr. Stanley Milgram, runs this experiment. Will people just follow orders? So let's say you volunteer for this experiment. You respond to an ad in the paper that says, we'll give you a free bologna sandwich lunch voucher or whatever at the cafeteria and 20 bucks. So you show up and it says, we're doing a study on learning and the effects of punishment on learning.

[Sean Ryan]

I think I do know about this. Is this the shock therapy? The shock thing? Yeah, Go ahead, go ahead.

[Chase Hughes]

So they've essentially got a guy in the room right beside you, strapped up to a machine that's going to shock him. And they sit you down at a machine, and your job is to read off some words. And when he gets a question wrong, you shock his ass. And then you move the shocker up, shock him. Higher voltage. For every wrong answer, you keep moving it up. And at the end of this little shocking machine, it says, 450v xxx danger severe shock. Two thirds of the way through this shocking thing, the guy in the other room, you can hear him screaming. You can hear him yelling when you shock him because the thing's painful. He's an actor. He's not ever getting shocked. But 2/3 of the way through, he stops and he says, I don't want to do this anymore. I want out of here. I have a heart condition. I don't want to do this anymore. And you look back at the guy running the thing in the lab coat. The guy in the lab coat says, it's important that you keep going. The experiment has to continue. The experiment requires that you continue. And, well, you keep going and around like the 400350 volt mark. The guy in the other room stops making all sound and stops responding to questions. He's not even answering the questions anymore. You turn around to the guy in the lab coat, the guy in the lab coat says, any non answer must be treated as an incorrect answer. Please, please continue. Keep going. And then these, these people would get to the end this 450 volts and they'd shock and be like, well, that's it, you know, we reached the reach the end. The guy in the lab coat says, please continue until you've read all of the, all of the questions on the, on the quiz. So this guy they think might be dead in the other room, they're just keeping going at this 450v in the other room. So before the experiment started, the psychologists, psychiatrists got together, employment, formed a hypothesis and they said, who's going to go all the way? And they said 0.8% or 0.08% of people will go all the way. 67% of people went all the way.

[Sean Ryan]

Holy.

[Chase Hughes]

And they redid the experiment. They said, oh well, there's an inherent belief of safety because it's in a college. They've done it in apartment buildings and basements and office buildings with college educated people, high school educated people, all income levels. About 67% of people will go think that is. It's two factors. It's number one, our inherent obedience to authority or perceived authority. Guys in a lab coat, I'm at this thing, the guy's in charge, the guy's tall, whatever it is, if we perceive authority, that will kind of overrule us. If you go back to our tribe days, if I disobeyed my tribal leader, that means no food, no sex and no kids, no DNA. Survival. That's a big deal. Second, and one that they didn't talk about, this is, my theory is novelty. So when something breaks from what we expect to happen. So like you've done a, a shitload of podcasts in here, but like if this wall started opening up and there was a, this was a garage door and you didn't know it until just now, you would freak out. No matter how much I kept talking, you would keep looking at that, right? Because it's brand new and it's unexpected. So when things happen that are new and unexpected, all of our focus is generated, which is the first part of the fate model. Anything new generates focus. So for our tribal ancestors, this is when they're walking past a bush every day. And one day there's a big stick that snaps behind that bush. All of their focus goes onto this unexpected new information. So in the Milgram experiment, this is a person responding to an ad they've never responded to, driving to a building they've never been in, in a situation they've never been in, meeting people they've never met, sitting in front of the shocking machine they've never seen before. Every single aspect of it was brand new, which maintained a ton of focus. So focus is. You can manufacture focus with novelty. Anything unexpected kind of breaks you out of your script and tells your brain to say, whoa, I'm not able to predict what's happening next. I need to pay attention. So, like, we have a little script for driving our car, and the moment something unusual happens, all of our focus kind of drifts back. This is when we can drive past our exit or stop sign or whatever. So I think that one thing that Milgram experiment does is it shows us how rapidly we can be compromised. And this is in like 25 to 40 minutes. You'll kill a stranger. The average. The majority of people will kill a stranger in under 45 minutes. And 250 volts is enough to kill somebody, depending on amps and other stuff. That was a hundred percent of people. A hundred percent.

[Sean Ryan]

That was a hundred percent of people.

[Chase Hughes]

Went up to 250. Yeah. Which is terrifying. But it shows us that we're all running the same hardware and it's easy to hack. And the more we're aware of what's happening around us. And, like, this is probably leading me in a certain direction. Why am I feeling this way? The more aware we can be of that stuff. We can be a little bit more in control. We're never fully in control because we don't have the antivirus stuff in our head.

[Sean Ryan]

What are the others? I mean, what would, what would some of the other signs be? That you are in the midst, you know, of a psyop. I mean, first thing you said was people being silenced. Yeah, I think that's, that's, that's a big one. What are some of the other signs?

[Chase Hughes]

Brand new and unexpected things happening. Like the drones in New Jersey. Right. So let's go back to the fate model. Focus. So is something new and weird happening? That's capturing my focus. Are there celebrities tweeting about it and people that are high up in the government talking about it? There's authority. Am I seeing large groups of people start talking about this one thing, or am I being made to think that a lot of people Think a certain way. There's tribe. And then am I getting called to action and getting installed with this new identity that makes me feel intellectually or morally superior? And there's the emotion. So is my. That little fate model, is that being targeted somehow? And most of my income comes from jury selection and consulting on trials and stuff like that. And the one thing that I teach attorneys is if you want to persuade an entire jury, the only thing that you've got to do is, is capture their focus, have more authority than the other attorney, foster a sense of tribalism and us versus them. And when you say the word us, you get the jury to think of you and them as one unit, and then get some kind of emotion in there during your closing arguments or during one of the depositions, and you'll win the case. I have a 200% money back guarantee when I do trial consulting. Wow.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[Chase Hughes]

And it's. It's easy to do if you just know how to trigger all those responses in the human brain. It's not hard to hack.

[Sean Ryan]

How many people that are involved, I mean, how many people involved in a psyop do you think actually realize they're involved? So, you know, you had mentioned, you know, UAP encounter. Are there celebrities talking about it, tweeting about it, posting about it? Are there government officials talking about it, posts about about it, tweeting about it, doing interviews about it? I mean, yeah, if you throw a UAP up right now, everybody's going to tweet, everybody's going to tweet about it, everybody's going to post about it, everybody's going to talk about it. Right. I mean, those people don't know they're a part of it, but it's going. I mean, whoever's. Whoever, you know, if, if it is a scop. I mean, the, you know, everybody's going to. Yeah, gonna do it. I mean, just for example, by the time this comes out, this shield AI's episode will be out already. They're releasing this. They're basically releasing the future of air warfare. They brought a model here. It was a really big model. It was in the front yard. Looked like a damn UAP. Not supposed to be out until 21st of October. They unveil it, I tell them, I'm like, hey, you might want to put a tarp over this thing, because we're out in the boonies. And if anybody thinks this is a uap, you know, I'll make you go viral. But that's really going to make you.

Go fucking viral in the way that.

In the way that you don't want to be.

[Chase Hughes]

Right.

[Sean Ryan]

You know what I mean? And so that could create. That could have created, you know what I mean, A frenzy of, oh, there's a UAP out in middle Tennessee. Da, da, da, da, da. You see what I'm saying? And nobody would have or I could have done that on purpose. And everybody that's posting about it, you.

[Chase Hughes]

Know, especially if you posted it, because that would trigger the authority. Right? And then because the tribe's going to be there, because it's a weird thing, it'll generate a little bit of focus in tribe. But then you get involved and you say, yeah, I was there and I saw it. So now there's authority in there. The only thing missing is that emotion. Then we get into the tribalized part of everything. I believe it. This guy doesn't. He's a plant. You know what I mean? So we see so many of those things that we get to a point of apathy at a certain time. So I think. I can't remember who wrote the book, but it was called the Death of Outrage. To where we get exposed to so much content designed to inflame our mental state, that outrage starts dying and going away. And that's the point we're at right now, that we need an extreme amount of novelty in order to spike that wave. It's gotta be higher than normal because there's so much novelty and bizarre shit that people are exposed to on a regular basis that the spike has to go higher. So look for the. The high spikes is the. The biggest thing to really look for.

[Sean Ryan]

Mid high spikes recently. Charlie Kirk assassination.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

You know, I think there are a lot of potential psyops around that. Or maybe truth. I don't think we'll ever really find out. Yeah, but I mean, what do you think about that? Did you see anything?

[Chase Hughes]

There's some psyops going around. All kinds. That was probably a way to control information or send a message to somebody. I don't know much about the whole situation, but I've seen people online that are digging into it, and it looks really messed up. Like there are some crazy details that even I. I would maybe consider myself an operator. And there's no way anybody I've ever met could take a rifle apart that fast. That takes time. There's a lot of threads on barrels like that and a lot of threads on suppressors and extended barrels that would take a whole lot of time. There's a whole lot of weird details. What about you?

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, there's a lot of weird details. I mean, I think. I don't think the entrance wound looks like an entrance wound at all. Do you? It looked like a fucking exit one.

[Chase Hughes]

It looked like it bounced off of a plate right here. It looked like there was a ceramic plate right here. I don't. I only saw this when it happened. I haven't dug into it.

[Sean Ryan]

But there's a theory that the microphone is what did it. Have you heard about that?

[Chase Hughes]

No.

[Sean Ryan]

Have you heard. Yeah, there's a theory that there were some type of explosives and maybe some type of a projectile planted on the microphone.

[Chase Hughes]

Whoa.

[Sean Ryan]

That's supposed. You know, that's. Maybe. I don't. These are all theories. You know, this is stuff that I'm seeing. But yeah, there's a lot of weird going on around about it. But you know what I mean, is the. Is the. Are they. Are the conspiracy theories a psyop? I mean, you see what I'm.

It's to create a certain narrative.

[Chase Hughes]

I mean, who knows?

[Sean Ryan]

I don't know. I don't even know where to look anymore. I mean, the mainstream isn't going to. They're not going to go against whatever the government wants to push out, you know, and then. And then on the other side, you've got everybody and that's diving into the different scenarios. But I mean, they're getting huge numbers talking about it. And so it's. Can I put all the confidence into that? I don't fucking know where to look.

[Chase Hughes]

I did a video about it on my YouTube channel, and the whole video was about the psyop aspect of it, not. Not the assassination itself, but how the assassination is the result of this division and this massive push outside of. Of this midline ground of being exposed to these people in politics on. On either side. And I think there's a lot of psyops there. But I think the one thing that people need to realize is if I go into a Best Buy right now to go get a laptop and let's say I get a Windows unit and they're like, oh, do you want this antivirus thing? And I was like, no, my computer can't get viruses. I am more vulnerable thinking that I'm immune than somebody who understands how easy it is to hack into a human being and actually pays attention during their day. It doesn't mean you need to be paranoid or anything like that. It just needs. You need to know when. When is my focus being captured? When am I being shown authority? When am I being kind of grounded in tribalism? And when is my emotion being triggered or set off by something? And if you've got that, then that's the closest thing to kind of antivirus that we got.

[Sean Ryan]

Interesting, interesting. What did you. What were you talking about in the video about Charlie Kirk's assassination?

[Chase Hughes]

It wasn't about Kirk.

[Sean Ryan]

It was about the violence, the political violence as a result of the. Of Psyops.

[Chase Hughes]

And the result is that. You've heard of the bystander effect before that cities. If we have apathy for everyone around us because our brains cannot pay attention to a city of 3 million people, we can't care about everybody. That's why you get closer to cities. People drive like assholes because they don't care. You go in the country and everybody's nice to each other because we depend on our reputation. In a city, you don't, you'll never see those people again. So in many ways, being around that many people can start to create some little bits of human apathy where I don't have any empathy to other people anymore. I can't have empathy for everyone. If I live in Dallas or Chicago, that's too much. My life would be. I would be suffering depression. Every day there's somebody getting stabbed. There's a car accident that happened last night. You can't have it. But in a city, it's just so overwhelming that I think we are getting to a point of showing these little, little tiny bits of socio. Sociopathy around a lot of these cities.

[Sean Ryan]

And this is sociopathy.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, just somebody becoming a sociopath.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay.

[Chase Hughes]

Becoming immune to feeling any kind of empathy for. For other people. And this happened in New York in the 60s. There was a woman named, named Kitty Genovese. She was stabbed 30 something times over the course of several minutes and screamed. And there were somewhere around 35 witnesses. And the police weren't called because everybody thought someone else might call the police. I don't know what it is. Somebody else is going to handle it. And they went back into their house and she died on the street. And maybe somebody called the police a little later or something. But this happens in these large cities. I'm not saying go live in the woods and start a farmer's Amish market somewhere. I'm saying, like, you have to be aware that a lot of what's happening now is we're seeing people celebrating the death of a public figure. That's sociopathy. That is the beginning of the complete loss of empathy for other people because of just weaponized identity and weaponized cognitive dissonance.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you think this was all done on purpose? I mean, so, you know, we see tweets, news people talking about this, you know, especially with the Kirk assassination. I mean, it's, it's, it's. A lot of people are saying, this is, this is the result of, you know, this guy's a Nazi, this guy's a fascist. This guy's, you know, is that word it stems from, or is it the desensit. Desensit, Whatever. Maybe the week before that, right, we saw. We saw the black guy in the subway stab a Ukrainian girl, what, three or four times in the neck.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Super graphic. I mean, yeah, it's. This is what I'm talking about with the algorithm cage too. I mean, that happened. Every fucking post I saw was that over and over and over. I've seen some pretty gruesome shit throughout my career, but I don't want to continue seeing that stuff. Week later, Charlie Kirk getting shot in the neck. You know, every single post for days was that.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

You know, and so you have, you have. You know, this is the end of democracy. This is. This guy's a Nazi, this guy's a fascist. This is. You know what I mean? You have all of that, people just dumping gas on the flame that way. And then on the other fact, you know, you have the. And you see it. I mean, not one person on the damn subway train, at least not on the video, stood up and did a damn thing about it. You know, you had Daniel Penny choked that guy out in New York City. He's the only one that acted. I mean, time and time again, this is.

[Chase Hughes]

And he suffered a social consequence for it. Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

You know, and, and, and, and you see, I mean, this is another thing that happens to me on X all the time. You know, you see these street fights or police guy, what, just some type of an altercation, some type of violence. And if you actually watch, if you click on it, even if you don't click on it, just sits on your. If you slow the scroll down and you're like, oh, what happens, dude? The next thing, it's just all people getting the shit beat out of them. People getting jumped. Black people beat up white people. White people beating up black people fucking.

[Chase Hughes]

Stirs it up.

[Sean Ryan]

You look at one thing of, of people looting a store in California. The next thing you know, the next 20 posts are fucking people. And then you start to think like, holy shit, this demographic of people, this is all the fuck they do. They just loot fuck things up and creates that division. So I guess what I'M asking, is this, is it all by design or is this, is this.

Is this a.

Byproduct of just, is this just happening naturally? Is it, is it by design or is it happening naturally? And this is just a byproduct of it.

[Chase Hughes]

I think with the algorithm it's a byproduct and I think it's happening by design from media and I think it's maybe desired by a lot of people. And I wasn't going to talk about this at all, but there's a protocol to get somebody to confess to a crime and it's a four step protocol. And when I teach interrogation, this is the way that we teach it. And it's also the way that you can get someone to do something that's not in their best interest. So I studied this for a long time. All the ways you can use hypnosis or conversations or movement or having authority, all these little things that we can do to make someone do something that's not in their best interest. So we train an intelligence officer, he's got to go talk somebody into, you know, turning over secrets or something where he could face the death penalty or he could face jail time for doing what, what he's going to do. So the way that you get someone to confess to a crime, and I promise this is going to relate back to what you're talking about is socialize, minimize, rationalize and project. So those four things, if I socialize the issue first. So let's let me give you the crime example and then I'll unpack it into social media. In a crime example, let's say I'm talking to you and you're charged with robbing a store. You took a thousand dollars from a 711 somewhere. So socializing would be, you know, Sean, I think once people understand who you are and what you're going through in your life, that what you did is going to make perfect sense to everybody and people are going to understand minimizes next. And I, I'm a detective here and I talk to people who take millions of dollars all the time. I talk to murderers and homicide victims, I talk to families of homicide victims. What we're talking about here isn't a big deal. What you did is not a big deal. You made a mistake and I just don't want you to think it's a big deal. I talk to people who do this all the time and they get over it. And it's something people get through very quickly. It's not a big deal. Rationalize is the Next step. So we did socialize, minimize. Now we have rationalize. And the rationalized part, depending on what it is, I'll rationalize the crime. Sometimes you blame the victim, depending on what crime it is. But I know you were working@that 7:11. I've looked at the pay. He's paying you guys jack shit. He's not taking care of you guys. And I know you have an aunt that is in the hospital and her chemotherapy bills are piling up. And I, I think that you did this for the right reason. And then project. And at the end of the day, this isn't your fault. You reacted in a way that a human reacts in a situation that you were in. And anybody would have done what you would have done. So that's how you get a confession. So that's the little process to get a confession there. And when we look at social media, am I seeing crime socialized and shared rampantly as if it's like good content? So I'm seeing a socialize. I'm seeing a minimize. It's not a big deal. I'm seeing a rationalize. I'm seeing a lot of rationalizing going on. So socialize. People are going to understand. Everybody gets it, everybody agrees with you. Minimize. It's not a big deal. Rationalize. It makes total sense. And then project. It's not your fault. And that, that interrogation formula to get someone to do something that's not in their best interest is what we're seeing on social media exactly what you were talking about?

[Sean Ryan]

Damn. And you think that social media is just. It's a byproduct of the algorithm. You think mainstream media, this is all done. It is on purpose. It is by design.

[Chase Hughes]

I do. And it's so effective. And it's not just, let me divide everybody. It's also, how do we sell these cowboy boots for this ad that's going to come up from this one company? It's also that. So I have to get you down this rabbit hole far enough that you're not going to click off, but then I also have to isolate you away from things that are going to piss you off enough to where you're going to leave the app, and I have to kind of navigate that little road there. And I am a victim. The watch that I'm wearing right now is from an Instagram ad. So I'm not immune to any of this stuff. But you're seeing so much of that stuff. It's socialize, rationalize, minimize, and project. It's not your fault. And that is a recipe for something that's not in your best interest. And it's. Do you think.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you think we're going to see an uptick in political violence? A lot of people think that was a turning point.

[Chase Hughes]

I do think that's going to happen because we're not seeing a lot of people coming toward the middle. Maybe there's something happening that I'm not seeing. I'm not on social media. I mean, I have social media accounts and stuff, but I'm not on there. It's not on my phone, it's not on my iPad, and I have to log into the website if I want to do it. But I'm definitely thinking that everything that we're seeing right now is made to set something up. And this did not look like an amateur. I will say that you're an operator. You've. You've spent some time over there doing this stuff. It didn't look like an amateur did any of that stuff. So it looks like. It looks like there's something's being set up. But if you go back on that formula, the way that an infomercial works is to socialize the product to you to minimize the cost and to minimize how big of a deal it is to make the purchase, to rationalize how to make that purchase and say that it's only three easy payments of $19.99 or whatever it is, and then project like. Most people don't own this, and the only reason they don't own it is because they didn't know about it before.

[Sean Ryan]

Let's take a quick break.

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I want to get into some hypnosis stuff with you, but I'd like to kind of wrap up the. The psyops stuff right off the. Before we dive into that here real quick. So, you know, there's a couple things just left on the outline I wanted to hit. One was manipulation tactics foreign governments use to make normal people, people do violent things. I mean, can you elaborate on that a little bit? Would this, Would this go into bot farms and stuff like that as well?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. So what the. The goal of a bot farm is to inflate tribe and authority. And it could be focus. If something is novel or, or unique enough so a bot farm can do that. And that's like, let's say there's something massively unique or different or interesting. Then it's so pervasive that a few authority figures or celebrities retweet it or repost it somewhere. And then there's so many accounts that it has the appearance of looking like other people in my tribe are liking this, and it's normalized to these other people in my tribe, so it must be popular. Therefore, there's no logic to this. Our brain's not logically going through these steps. We automatically accept things that we think the tribe is accepting, which is how these, like, weird, stupid ass ideas spread so quickly, because we have the illusion of lots of people doing this one behavior.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay, okay. What is. What are some things they would project to get people to do violent things? I mean, anything outside of what we've already talked about about division and, you know, aligning with a certain tribe and all of that kind of stuff.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. So if I wanted you. Let's say I want to weaponize. Sean, I'm going to show you videos of bad, bad group of people doing really, really bad things all the time. And the more I can show that to you, you're. You're building up hatred and all this other stuff. But what am I really shifting? What's the second step of psyops that we talked about is shifting context. The only time that you'll really want to kill someone is if you've never killed anybody before. Let's say John, that works at H and R Block. Like, we need to weaponize that guy. He has to be in a situation where he thinks he is preventing death or violence. And if I can shift that context into a violence scenario, your brain is already put into a place of. This is a context where violence is acceptable and normal.

[Sean Ryan]

Oh, God.

[Chase Hughes]

Okay, so it's perception, then context, and then it's a PCP model is what we teach at nci. You shift perception, then context, and then it equals permission. Perception, context, and permission. Those three things. Wow.

[Sean Ryan]

Learn a lot of stuff here. What is the neuroscience behind psyop?

[Chase Hughes]

It is. The actual neuroscience is that it's weaponizing part of our brain that's looking around to see what everyone else is doing and to see if I should change. There's a part of our brain called the locus coeruleus. This is how we detect facial expressions in other people and whether or not, you know, in a grocery store, whether someone's going to punch you or try to offer you a coupon or something. But this is our sensor for, is everything going as planned? Is everything going as it should right now? And the moment that stuff goes off, then we have novelty. So our brain says, whoop, there's something new. I need to focus on that. So that, that little focusing part of our brain is called the reticular formation, and that's the part that's active. Like when you're. If you're buying a white Toyota Tundra and you look at them on the Internet for a month and then you finally buy a white Toyota Tundra, you're going to see them everywhere. Because your brain, since you've been looking at it, says, oh, the human thinks that this is important. So I'm going to search for it everywhere I go. So that's our brain's little focusing mechanism. So if. If I've.

[Sean Ryan]

Is there a way to shut that off?

[Chase Hughes]

No. I would say definitively no. So if, If I have told the mammalian part of my brain over and over again that this one thing is important, then the brain will just look for it everywhere. Like, there's no. It's not like everyone went out and bought a Tundra at the same time as you. It's that you told your reticular formation or reticular activating system that that thing was important. And the brain said, okay, Sean's looking at this one thing. I'm going to search for it. I'm going to find it everywhere. Which also means that at the end of the day, maybe somebody comes home and they're like, hey, I saw 17 other tundras on the road just on my way home from work. It's insane. I didn't realize everybody had one. But you'll never be able to tell somebody how many Toyota Corollas you saw on the road, because your brain wasn't searching for them. So A lot of times our experience of the world is not really reality. Our experience is what our reticular formation thinks is important and what it's searching for. And it will just kind of delete everything else. So our definition of the world is our definition of the reticular formation's priorities.

[Sean Ryan]

Very interesting. Very interesting. What? Can you explain the connection between cults in brainwashing techniques?

[Chase Hughes]

Oh yeah. So brainwashing follows a four step formula and that is it spells out the word fear. So we had fate earlier, now we have fear and that's focus, emotion, agitation and repetition. So I'm going to gain your focus with tons of new novel stuff. I'm going to get you in and take you through this quiz or this personality quiz. I'm going to get you in and take you to this candlelight ceremony that's kind of soft and kind. Then an emotion happens. Now we have love bombing. Or now you have to go through some trial or tribulations, some initiation, then agitation. Now I have to disrupt patterns in your life. So if you normally do one thing, I'm going to tell you to do something different in your life. You're going to have to come in here every other day. So I'm going to agitate your schedule. I might agitate your social circle and say you need to disconnect from all those friends. So I'm going to do something to make your brain. It's novelty, just like what we've been talking about. So I'm going to inject as much novelty in your life as possible to agitate your brain so that it's brand new. I can rewire your brain because of that agitation. And then the final step of brainwashing is repetition. So it's working the same way that you would brainwash anybody. It's the exact same way that cults work. Gain the focus, get them into an emotional state. And we talked about this at the very beginning of the show. That fractionation state, up and down, up and down and they go down a little deeper every single time, which is very similar to hypnosis. And then I get the agitation. I'm going to disrupt your life. So like if you want to change your life, somebody out there, like, I'm going to set goals, I'm going to make a million dollars this month or you know, whatever the goal is, I need to get that to myself. I'm going to brainwash myself using the exact same formula. So it's not like it's a bad formula. I'm going to harness my Focus and where it goes through. I'm gonna. I'm gonna target all the emotions that I need to get. I'm gonna get pumped and motivated and all these things. I'm gonna get negatively motivated away from what I don't want. I'm gonna agitate my life to tell my brain that something is very different as much as possible. Maybe I'll paint a room differently. Maybe I'll rearrange the furniture. Maybe I'll buy a new car. Maybe I'll shift my wardrobe around. Maybe I'll brush my teeth with my left hand. I'm gonna do all kinds of things to agitate my brain so it knows that something is different. And then repetition. So I can change my life that way for the good or. Or for bad.

[Sean Ryan]

Makes sense. Makes sense. When you. I mean, you do hypnosis too?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Why did you get into hypnosis?

[Chase Hughes]

It seemed cool. That's like. There's a guy in the uk, his name is Darren Brown. Maybe, I don't know if you've seen videos of. But he was on Rogan and he did this like, stuff that looked like magic to me. And I wanted to learn it, but I got obsessed with like, what. What is it that makes people do things that are not in their best interest? And I read about people committing crimes using hypnosis. And like, there was a story in Russia where the. This lady would go up to someone and then after about 60 seconds, she would ask them to hand over their wallet and their watch and all the money in their pocket, and they would just willingly hand it over. And she would say, okay, and you're just fine. You were walking that way. And they would walk off and they would report to the police, like, I don't know what happened. She asked for those things. So I just handed them over. And then I was really confused. So that was fascinating to me. I wanted to learn how to do it. But it also. You can do all kinds of amazing positive things for somebody with hypnosis. You can get somebody out of an eating disorder or out of depression or all kinds of stuff, make them quit smoking or quit drinking. So hypnosis is just a cool thing that we go into naturally. And we're. We're trance machines. All of us go into and out of trance or what trance is, which we can dig into if you want, but it's essentially our theta wave brain function. About 7 Hz cycles per second of brain waves. And that means our brain is hyperplastic, hyper suggestible. And that's why, like from age 0 to 7, we're in that theta brainwave state almost exclusively. Which is why, like, when you're a kid, you can learn four or five languages and, like. Yeah, I know all those. It wasn't stressful, it wasn't hard. You could learn Russian and Spanish and Swahili all at the same time. So that theta wave state is what you're accessing in hypnosis. And we go into and out of it two or three times a day, naturally. And that's all really hypnosis is. And we could dig into whatever you want, but hypnosis is a lot of fun. And what got me into it was like, I thought it would be bad. I thought it would make me cool.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, you were just talking about the trance. And if we want to dive into it, we can go deeper. Let's do it. What is that?

[Chase Hughes]

So trance is a mixture of three big things. So it's an increase in suggestibility, an increase in your level of focus, like how much I can take your attention and kind of pull it all down into one little place, and it's an increase in your dissociation. So this is when I'm kind of separating from my body a little bit in my mind, and I'm not like, doing out of body experiences, but I'm getting to a place where you, your mind and your body are two different things. I'm going to relax your body. And we know that once you're in that state, a lot of changes, mental changes become way easier. So you could use it to save someone's life, which I. I did. On a Delta Airlines flight. There's a guy that was gonna hurt himself, and he was jacked. Huge dude. Like, scary. Like, I knew that he would probably kill me, and I hypnotized him in the front of the plane and he had a. The rest of flight was absolutely fine. And Delta gave me, I think, a thousand points for that as a thank you.

[Sean Ryan]

Nice.

[Chase Hughes]

So you can use it for all kinds of stuff. And from a neuroscience perspective, there's two big things happening with hypnosis. The first is your brain floods with this chemical called gaba, which is gamma aminobutyric acid. And it's our inhibitory neurotransmitter. It's the 1 neurotransmitter, the biggest neurotransmitter in the brain that calms everything down. Let's just chill. Brings your heart rate down, relaxes your body, relaxes your mind, and, like, what you're focusing on. And the second is this Other chemical called Homo vanillic acid, which they've only been able to detect recently through sports spinal fluid under hypnosis, which increases in the brain. And those things allow your brain to become really plastic. So if you have a good hypnotist, then a person can actually help you. And this is proven by the American Medical association, the American Psychological Association. It's a proven method of treatment for a lot of stuff. But not everybody's easily hypnotizable. Some people have varying levels of suggestibility.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay, what's the process like to hypnotize somebody?

[Chase Hughes]

It's pretty straightforward. Will fix your mind on something, dispel the rumors and myths that people get like you're not going to be deaf, you're not in a coma, you're going to hear my voice the whole time. You're not going to get stuck. You can't get stuck in hypnosis. And this is not something I do professionally, hardly ever. But you talk to them in such a way that their focus is there. You're telling them to focus on something. You help them relax their body. And this full like body relaxation where you hear someone say like your shoulders are falling and face is relaxing and all this, if your body starts relaxing, we start releasing a little bit more gaba in our brain and you just kind of count down 10 to 1 and helping somebody go into trance and then you just kind of say sleep. And that expectation of trance is what really sends someone into a deliberate trance instead of a random trance that we go into naturally. And once they're in there, then you can do the suggestions like, you know, every time you reach for a cigarette, you're going to be nauseous or you know, whatever a hypnotist might say. The only, only clients I really work with with hypnosis is a, and this is kind of fascinating, I work one on one with people every once in a while a few times a year where we will do a full on simulation including having a medical doctor there of a gastric band surgery to where they go through the entire experience of having that surgery done. They can feel that band being placed on the stomach. They go through the surgery in their mind and then they actually wear a bandage for a couple of weeks after. And they get about 80% of the results of 80, 85% of results of what? A gastric band surgery.

[Sean Ryan]

Are you serious?

[Chase Hughes]

Dead serious.

[Sean Ryan]

Holy.

[Chase Hughes]

So this has been used for several things like that. And just a few months ago, the first brain surgery, open brain surgery, was done with no anesthetic and only hypnosis.

[Sean Ryan]

What?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, and they've been using it as anesthesia for a hundred years, almost for dental. You can have teeth removed and they've done limb amputations where the person couldn't feel any pain. It is pretty powerful stuff.

[Sean Ryan]

How do you know when they've arrived at hip?

[Chase Hughes]

I don't know. I don't think there's a perfect indicator, unless the person you're doing it with is wearing an eeg, like a brain scan machine. But you see their breathing shift. You'll see most of us breathe from our chest. You know, when we're in conversations with people, you'll see it shift down into the belly. You'll see even if their eyes are closed, you'll see the eyes kind of look up. Like, if you try to look at the center of your head from behind, like, you'll see the eyes kind of move in that direction, kind of roll upward. There's a few indicators that we look for, and those are the big ones. But the thing is that somebody might say, oh, I tried hypnosis a few years ago to quit smoking, and it. And it didn't work. Or I don't think hypnosis works. But if you went down to Tijuana and got facial surgery by some drunk doctor, you're not going to say surgery doesn't work. You're going to say, I saw a bad surgeon. Right. So who you see when it comes to hypnosis makes a huge difference. And whether or not they're like with my clients, we do neurotransmitter analysis. We do blood work and all that 60 days prior to the appointment. So everything is kind of balanced and going well before it even starts.

[Sean Ryan]

So what is it that happen when you say whatever you said, you know, if you eat whatever thing, you're going to become nauseous afterwards. I mean, that is. I mean, that is. That's in there.

[Chase Hughes]

It's in there deep. But we're setting up. It's not just me saying those words. We're setting. We're setting their brain up to receive that data in a very specific file in their file cabinet. So I want the really important file, not the, hey, this is something some dude said. I want them to pull that big important file out, and there's some phrases and words we use to get that file drawer opened and pull that file up for things that are permanent and things that are important and get the old file out and put that new one in there. But you make it really vivid, too. So like you'll actually like if, if someone's under hypnosis, you can have them change their body temperature, you can have them alter their heart rate, you can have them not bleed. There's YouTube videos on this where they keep. They pulled people's skin up and shoved a needle through there and told them not to bleed on that hand. You can have them change the body temperature of one hand versus another from blood flow. It's. And this is proven, this is peer reviewed research. So it is a really powerful tool. But it can be obviously weaponized. Like anything that's powerful and awesome. Like you got an M4 up here and that thing can be a tool for good, it could be a tool for bad.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, you know, this, I don't know is this, this, this makes MK Ultra pop in my mind. Yeah, I mean it sounds kind of similar there.

[Chase Hughes]

Did a lot of that stuff.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you?

[Chase Hughes]

I. Yeah, I know a lot about MK Ultra.

[Sean Ryan]

Let's hear about it.

[Chase Hughes]

There is. Well, the background to it is the government was freaking out that there were guys in the Korean War saying, America's bad. I renounce my citizenship. I hate America. Korea. Yay Korea. Boo America kind of videos. And they're like, what? There's some technology because these are patriotic Americans being told to do all this stuff. So there was a start of what I would refer to as a mental arms race. And the Soviets were also doing this stuff too. And this is where you had weird stuff going on. We had like Project Stargate, like the Men who stare at goats movie and remote viewing and all this other stuff was going on. Then they started MK Ultra, which involved a lot of former Nazi scientists and involved a lot of LSD and dosing people with massive, massive doses of LSD and ruining a lot of people's lives in the process. But it was an attempt initially to find some kind of a truth serum. And actually the Navy participated in the biggest one, which was called Project Chatter, which is a sub project of MK Ultra. And with this, this guy, he's a professor at, it's in Hamilton, New York. I can't remember the name of the Colgate University. His name is Dr. Georgia Esther Brooks. And he and J. Edgar Hoover are collaborating on a plan to use hypnosis to capture and hypnotize a German submarine captain and give him alter identities and send him back to his fleet in Germany and have him torpedo the entire German fleet inside the harbor. And this was a legit plan. And I have access to the documents that survived the destruction order and it was called Super Spy. And do you do show notes like the PDF in the comment or PDF in the description thing? I would have sent it to you so people can download it, but.

[Sean Ryan]

Oh, we'll do it, we'll do it.

[Chase Hughes]

Okay, done it before.

[Sean Ryan]

I thought you meant every. Okay, we'll do it.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, so I'll send it to you. So people can actually look at these because they're not public record. Thank you. I went to this guy's house, talked to a family member. These were like old stuff that survived the, the CIA's destruction order of all, all of this stuff. But it got weird. I mean you, these guys had lots of power. This was called the oss, which as you know pretty well back then we've got this guy running the show, his name's Wild Bill Donovan. And he. His instructions to the lead guys in every unit was to make Mary hell when it came to MK Ultra. And they did this one project called Project Midnight Climax. Have you heard of this? They took prostitutes in San Francisco and these women would lure these men back to the hotel and drug them with lsd. Like high dose lsd. And on the other side of a two way mirror, these scientists would be back there writing down God knows what, because that's all we really know about the whole program. But they were also experimenting with aerosol lsd. Like can we disperse it into a crowd? Can we disperse it over a city? What does it do in water supplies and just some insane stuff. But they, they discovered this way to create a Manchurian candidate. And this is a lot of where some of these ideas came from. And this guy, George Estabrooks, perfected, or back then had it perfected this system to create a Manchurian candidate to where he could create an alter ego inside of an army officer. One of them was the normal officer and they called him Jones A. And there was a Jones B. And we could send this guy through enemy lines doing whatever. Jones A is a normal army officer. Jones B is carrying these vital classified secrets, radio frequencies, you know, whatever it is. I made that last part of the frequency part. Who knows what he's carrying. So if Jones A gets captured, Jones B doesn't activate until he hears a very specific hypnotic phrase or hypnotic command under hypnosis. And they do that on the other side of the line. So they developed this stuff way back when. And one of the doctors working on this whole project was named Dr. Joylyn west, who may have been involved with the Sirhan Sirhan situation and Bobby Kennedy, and which is a Whole nother rabbit hole. But it looks like Sirhan Sirhan to me. I'm 100% convinced that he was programmed to do that. No, it's not hard to do. I mean, look at the Milgram experiment. 40 minutes, kill a stranger. And they didn't use hypnosis. There was no, like, cool sales tactic or script that they had to follow. Everybody's concerned with, like, what do I say? What are the exact words I need to say? It's, can you trigger the fate model? Focus, emotion. I'm sorry, Focus. Authority, tribe and emotion. And if you get that, you get compliance. And if you get that plus hypnosis, then you can create the Manchurian Candidate. And it's not that hard to do. You don't need a bunch of advanced training to get that done. And I've studied that for a long time. So when I work with one on one clients who need a breakthrough or something like that, and I'll use the exact same method to create an alter ego in a person that maybe doesn't eat 6 pounds of cheesecake every day. So you could take the exact same thing and put it in someone else that benefits them and acts as maybe a drill sergeant or a disciplinarian. And the reason that I started doing this or got interested in it, there are case studies and reports of people with dissociative identity disorder. So, like two personalities or multiple personalities inside of a person where one of them has a medically diagnosable condition and the other one does not.

[Sean Ryan]

Are you shitting kidding me?

[Chase Hughes]

No. This is proven. Like, one of them could be cortically blind, or one could have color blindness. One of them could have some kind of a diabetic condition. There were several conditions where these other personalities would have allergies, even skin allergies, and rashes in response to cat hair. And just upon reading this, I'm thinking like, well, could I make someone with severe depression have an alter ego that doesn't have the depression? And we know that neurons that fire together wire together. So over the course of six months, if they keep doing this, can they kind of like rewire their brain if this alter keeps taking over? Of course. I didn't know. I played with it for a really long time. And, man, our. Our brains are fascinating and how fast they can change and adapt. And if you've got a good person working with you, you can get a lot done. But that I think the only other way to really alter mental plasticity that fast would be psychedelics. This was like Ketamine or a DMT or something like that.

[Sean Ryan]

So how would they, how would they do it with MK Ultra? Would it be, would it, they, they, they, they are in the middle of the journey, you know, the, the psychedelic kicks in and then they. Is it a hypnosis? I mean, because the way it's described is they're injecting thoughts, right?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, so it probably, there was never a recipe. My estimation is that it was a microdose of lsd because you, as you know, in psychedelics, language loses more and more meaning the more psychedelics you do. So I was thinking as a microdose of lsd, massive amounts of hypnosis to where the person's hyper responsive to that person's voice. So like when I see clients, they listen to my mp3 audio thing, that's hypnosis to just help them go to sleep every night. So by the time they show up and see me in person, their, their brain is hyper responsive to, to my voice and it's, it's a lot easier. And then during that process, in my estimation, they used real trauma like oxygen deprivation or something like that to create a traumatic brain response inside of the limbic system of our brain, which makes us dissociate. And during this process of dissociation is when they put that second dissociated person or part of them, or I don't know the words to say, but they're dissociated. So while they're dissociated, they hypnotize them and then kind of create that alter ego. Tell them how they activate. Tell them when they come up and when they, what their personality is, what they like to do. You're, you're here to protect the host. So like if I did this to you, Sean B's job would be to protect Sean A. Does that make sense, man?

[Sean Ryan]

I've been kind of a little bit. I mean, I don't understand how person B comes out though. You know what I mean? How does, how is that determined?

[Chase Hughes]

Person B comes out through dissociation. So that's where we get the, the name dissociative identity disorder. So when a person is going through some kind of traumatic event, you'll talk to somebody. I think you had someone on your show who mentioned this who goes through trauma and they just kind of like exit their body temporarily or exit this one globe of consciousness into this other piece. And when they shift over to this other piece, you can separately create this piece and give them an identity, give them a name. And if I can make something real in your head, then I can create it in reality for you. Which is why a lot of these cases of dissociative identity disorder were created by the psychiatrists in the 70s and 80s and the 90s because. And this is called iatrogenic dissociative identity disorder. So if you came to me, I keep using you as the example, but there's nobody else here. If, Sean, if you came to me and I was a psychiatrist and we were working together, you said, well, I have this thing going on in my life, and it's X and Y and Z. And all I did was start talking about two different parts of you. And I say, it seems like there's a part of you that wants to eat the right thing, but there's also a part of you that wants to overeat. You're like, yeah. And then I go into five or six other examples in your life. Is this. Like this in social situations? Is there a part of you that wants to hide and there's a part of you that wants to socialize? Yeah. So I'd go into all these parts, and then I would say, you know what? I'd to like. Like you to take a questionnaire. And this questionnaire is maybe 17 questions. And a lot of these people made it up on the spot, these little questionnaires. And if I tell you that you scored high in dissociative identity, I'd say, like, this person, this other part of you, has their own thoughts, their own behaviors, their own life. And I think a lot of your issues are from not addressing this other part of you that wants to do these other things. And they're probably here to keep you safe. So just really quick, just between you and I, if that other part of you had a name, what would you want to name that other part? And you say, Stephen. And I'm like, all right, so I'd like to talk to Stephen now. So within the course of one session, I have a conversation with Sean, I have a conversation with Stephen, and by the third or fourth session, you are fully living your life as if there are two people in your head.

[Sean Ryan]

You gotta.

[Chase Hughes]

Because what happens there. There's a lot of novelty focus, a lot of authority, because there's a guy in a lab coat or a guy in the psychology sweater vest holding the clipboard there, taking you through a lot of this stuff. The authority and your expectation is what sets the stage for this to. To become a reality. So you can get. You can accidentally get dissociative identity from a provider. Wow. And this is very well documented.

[Sean Ryan]

And so what was the point of MK Ultra?

[Chase Hughes]

Who know? I don't know.

[Sean Ryan]

You don't know?

[Chase Hughes]

I think the initial aim was to figure out the perfect truth serum, which they thought LSD was some miracle for truth serum. And they were testing sodium amytal, which is another drug that's pretty well known as a good truth serum. And they were trying to figure out, can we really brainwash people? Can we create Manchurian candidates? Can we split people's personalities? There was so much that it was just wild. It was the Wild West. So just looking at what they did, nobody would ever be able to know what the ultimate, ultimate aim was.

[Sean Ryan]

So how would they get Personality B to trigger on Demand if they were going to have a Manchurian Candidate or, you know, an assassin or, you know. Yeah, any. Any, you know, bad actors? I mean, how would they. How would they trigger personality B to carry out what. Whatever the mission is?

[Chase Hughes]

It's pretty simple. A lot of repetition. So, like, if I continually deprive you of oxygen, and then afterwards, every time you dissociate them, say, now I'm talking to Sean B. And what's your number one goal? You want to protect Sean A. Right. And the number one way to do that is to go do this one thing in this place. That's the way to protect. Is that your goal? Is that what you want to do? Good. And every time you come out, I might set up some kind of a trigger. Once you hear these words, then you have permission to come out and do exactly what you want to do. And it's very easy. It's just setting up the expectation and then rehearsal. That's all hypnosis really is. But when you do it with this Manchurian Candidate stuff, it's trauma, expectation, and then repetition.

[Sean Ryan]

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[Chase Hughes]

It's not hard. I mean, if you could. Without any of that trauma, any of that programming, no LSD, strangers will. Will kill another stranger in 40 minutes. 67. At a rate of 67%. So people think, like there's some advanced crazy technique that you have to master to do a lot of this stuff. It's a lot simpler than. Than most people think.

[Sean Ryan]

It's not that advanced.

[Chase Hughes]

It's not.

[Sean Ryan]

Man, that's scary.

[Chase Hughes]

It is terrifying.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you think that program's still going on?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, we're swimming in it inside of our phone every day.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

What.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, so what is. We're kind of wrapping up the interview now, Chase, but I'm just, you know, with.

With a lot of the things that are coming out today.

AI voice manipulation. I mean, you see a lot of these AI videos that are coming out. They look. They don't look fake, you know? Yeah, they don't look fake. I mean, now they have these programs that will, that will. I mean, you. You feed it 30 seconds of your voice and it'll replicate it perfectly.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Minus, you know, maybe some highs and lows and, and. And just how you talk as a person. Raise your voice, lower your voice. But it'll even start picking that up. Yeah. If you give it enough time. So, I mean, what, what are your fears for. What do you think? Psyops. How. How are they going to develop it?

[Chase Hughes]

Can copy your voice. I didn't know it could do that.

[Sean Ryan]

Oh, yeah, they can copy your voice.

[Chase Hughes]

So I could listen to a romance novel that narrated by you?

[Sean Ryan]

You could.

[Chase Hughes]

I might try that.

[Sean Ryan]

These guys are already doing it to.

[Chase Hughes]

My voice, I have no doubt.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

So I think at the end of the day, with all this, all this AI, it's going to do exactly what we've already done. We are in a world where we've got our friend Joe Rogan. He's got more views than almost all of the media, because that's contrived, it's narrative driven and it's artificial, and people are right now just starving for something more real. And I think over time, AI is going to become so pervasive that all we're going to do is crave something real again. We're going to get back, we're going to get into A place of being extremely distrustful of digital assets and digital media in. In. In general. And I think that that distrust of digital media will drive us back to a place of craving some kind of reality and actual human connection. Yeah. So I think that it may be the thing that pushes us backward toward where we need to be reconnecting. And I'm not saying it's going to drive that change and change the world, but I'm saying it's going to create that desire for sure, it's going to create that desire for reality because we've already got it and we're already seeing the world's reaction to shows like this. Like the content that you put out, it's not heavily edited. There's not some narrative being cast and all that stuff. It's super real and people are already starting to crave that stuff. And I think this is just going to push it even further.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, that's good to hear. That's good to hear. I was. I was expecting something a lot darker than that.

[Chase Hughes]

So just being honest, I brought you a present, by the way.

[Sean Ryan]

Oh, right up. Oh, I got you a little something too. I forgot all kinds of. At this interview I was getting.

[Chase Hughes]

This is the. Pop that thing open and I got one for your team as well. So this is my newest book. There's a paperback of it on Amazon. But it is every dangerous thing you ever wanted to know about reading people and all that kind of stuff.

[Sean Ryan]

Behavior Ops. This is your newest book?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, Behavior Ops manual.

[Sean Ryan]

And thank you.

[Chase Hughes]

That spiral on that thing. We've only got like 90 of the spiral versions left. The paperback is on Amazon. But you know Lisa Billyu. No, Tom Bilyeu from Impact Theory. Oh, yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay.

[Chase Hughes]

So his wife, I was on her show with her and she wore that thing as a bracelet. Her whole arm fit inside of that spiral.

[Sean Ryan]

That's awesome, man. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I actually. I had a couple things that. One, Gummy bears. Every guest that's gets the Vigilance League Gummy bears. Made in the USA, legal in all 50 states.

[Chase Hughes]

Let's try one right now.

[Sean Ryan]

Let me know what you think.

[Chase Hughes]

These are normal gummy bears.

[Sean Ryan]

They're. They're normal. She's candy. Fortunately or unfortunately, I don't know.

[Chase Hughes]

And they're good.

[Sean Ryan]

Not bad, huh?

[Chase Hughes]

Actually, good.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you. And then. Yeah, I usually do this at the beginning, but I've got a little ahead of myself. This is from. So we have a Patreon account, subscription account. And one of the things I do is I offer them the opportunity to ask each and every guest a question.

This is from Stephen Casey. With the, with the proliferation of assassination.

Attempts in the past several years, are you at all concerned about the possibility of Manchurian Candidate type scenarios? Is science that far off from being a reality?

[Chase Hughes]

Which science? I think the Manchurian Candidate stuff has been going on for a while. And here's the one thing no one ever talks about. A lot of people talk about this guy's got the skills. This guy did this programming. I think 80% of the hard work in doing that stuff is target selection and who you're going to pick to do that programming. So that their backstory and all that stuff lines up with the agenda that the person has at the end of the day. And it is, it is very possible. And I say this as a person who's like, I've studied probably more than anyone in the world. The one thing I'll say I might know more than anybody in the world about is this kind of alter ego programming stuff. And I will say that, yes, I'm worried about it. What was his name? John.

[Sean Ryan]

It's Stephen Casey.

[Chase Hughes]

All right, so for Stephen, yes, I'm worried about it. And I don't know if there's a way that we can really do anything about it sadly being weaponized. So the science is there and the science to hack the brain is only getting better. And it's, it's going to be a new world very soon. And if, if, like what we talked about, if AI keeps going, we're going to start this process of like, I need to get back to this. Craving something real, which is what we're. If you look at the trends on what people are following, the YouTube channels that are creating more real content, I just last week hit a million subscribers on my channel.

[Sean Ryan]

Congratulations.

[Chase Hughes]

Thank you. People are craving stuff that's not narrative based. It's not feeding you a bunch of. And people are just talking normally. I don't think we're gonna go the other way. I hope we.

[Sean Ryan]

I hope, and I hope not. I've been, I mean, I've been hearing in talking about the human connection for several years and man, I hope you're right. I hope it comes back to that. Because people are not talking.

[Chase Hughes]

I think there will be a portion of society that chooses to put on that, that advanced VR experience, like narrow link. Well, I think way in the future that, like, where you can't distinguish that from reality. But it's also like, if you look at everything, how everything is a microcosm of the Big thing. Our DNA looks like the galaxy and our eyes look like a star and all this kind of stuff. We, when we were on a break last, we talked about salvia and how a dude did salvia and lived like a 30 year life and like had kids and stuff and came back. That. I've read that probably two years ago. I've read about this guy that haunts me to this day because like, what, what if that's just the next level and we're in that now. I know, like the headset hasn't come off yet.

[Sean Ryan]

I think about that too.

[Chase Hughes]

I do all the time.

[Sean Ryan]

What if this is a. Yeah. What if this is a simulation? What if none of this is actually real?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, I don't even know where to go from there. But I do think about that a.

[Chase Hughes]

Lot more than I should.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah, I do too.

[Sean Ryan]

What do you think? Do you think we're in a false reality?

[Chase Hughes]

I think this is a simulation.

[Sean Ryan]

You do?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

You think this is a simulation, but.

[Chase Hughes]

I don't think it's computer. I mean, when our ancestors were around, the universe was made of fire and different, different elements of fire. Because that's.

[Sean Ryan]

You think I'm here right now?

[Chase Hughes]

Yes.

[Sean Ryan]

You do?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

You don't think this is only in your. A projection of, of your reality?

[Chase Hughes]

No.

[Sean Ryan]

Have you ever thought that?

[Chase Hughes]

No. But if you look at the industrial revolution, the universe was a machine. If you look at the electrical revolution, when we started inventing electricity, the universe was all energy. And then you look at now when we're in the age of computers and the universe is a computer. So we're just using very, very limited, you know, just our small, narrow perspective to make sense of something that's incomprehensible. And when people say like, oh, we could not be in a simulation because the computer would be the size of the solar system or whatever. Like, how naive for us to say that they use computers or we use computers or whatever this is, that we have some understanding of it because we're here and we're one of the youngest species on the planet. So I think there's not enough scientists out there who say, who don't use the words. As far as we know. I think there's too few scientists who don't admit that we haven't got it all figured out.

[Sean Ryan]

Now. Why, why do you think we're in a simulation that's not in a computer simulation?

[Chase Hughes]

Well, so first I would say if you look at the people, the, who've done psychedelics and all of Those lessons. Why do they all learn the same lessons? Why are they all getting taught the same kind of thing mostly?

[Sean Ryan]

What would you say those lessons are other than everything is one? That's what comes to my mind. Yeah.

[Chase Hughes]

If we go back to psychedelics, the most ancient spiritual text ever written, I think was the Hermetic Principles. And this first principle of hermeticism was all is mind, the universe is mental. And this is like 3500 years bc they're writing this stuff. And the second principle is as above, so below. And man, they had some stuff figured out back then. And I think it's a, maybe a simulation in, in that what we think is real is probably not real. Like you've. The. The separation between atoms makes everything like 99 points, 0.999% empty space. Like we're just emptiness and there's so many things. Every new discovery of quantum physics and quantum mechanics is proving one of these ancient wisdom principles, right? Every new thing that we figure out, this quantum entanglement or quantum tunneling or this double slit experiment.

[Sean Ryan]

What's quantum tunneling?

[Chase Hughes]

Quantum tunneling is where like a particle can like appear at another location.

[Sean Ryan]

I haven't heard of this one.

[Chase Hughes]

Now you've heard of quantum entanglement.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, I've heard of quantum entanglement and.

[Chase Hughes]

I, I understand quantum tunneling almost none.

[Sean Ryan]

So quantum entangling for the audience is basically if you, if you split an atom in half, correct me if I'm wrong, right, you split an atom in half, put, you know, a side over here, you put B side over here. Doesn't matter what the difference is. You could have one on fucking, yeah, Pluto and the other one on the sun. And if you, if you put a frequency on one, it will mimic the exact same frequency. No matter. It could be a centimeter away from it, it could be a galaxy away from it.

[Chase Hughes]

Instantly.

[Sean Ryan]

It will, it will mimic what side A is doing or side B is doing.

[Chase Hughes]

So somehow information travels that distance instantly. No need to use light or anything like that.

[Sean Ryan]

They are not, they do not appear to be connected, but no matter what the distance is, they will mimic each other. Yeah, that's quantum entanglement.

[Chase Hughes]

And the double slit experiment says that matter isn't really matter until we observe it and look at it. I'm dumbing that down and turning it into a post it note, but essentially says something like that, which is like a look at Minecraft. My kids played Minecraft growing up and like they would fly through the Minecraft game and like the mountains wouldn't materialize into the TV until they got closer and closer to them and then you'd see them like pop up. And reality works the same way, which is unbelievable. And I think we need to acknowledge how little we know. I've studied neuroscience for 12 years now, and we don't even know where memories are stored. We don't know. We don't know how they're made. We don't know what consciousness is. We have no clue of anything about consciousness. We know so little about the brain. There's probably 70% of the brain, like the anatomical structure of the brain. We're not really sure how they work or what they do. So it's okay. I think it's. It should be more okay for a lot of people to admit that we're in our infancy of understanding reality to begin with.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, yeah, I don't know. I think a lot about this all the time. It's. It's like I obsess. Any of this real you here? This is room here? Yeah, it's a real. Is any of this real real?

[Chase Hughes]

Well, that goes back to first principle of hermeticism, the all is mind mental. And I think that that's pretty damn true of like a lot of the things that we see on psychedelics. A lot of the big revelations that people have. And I think a lot of it is like, don't take everything so seriously that you get on mushrooms, that you get from any kind of journey like that. It's like, stop. Stop pretending like it's not a game. Like it's just a game. And it's if. Just look at the Bible. The number one most repeating phrase in the Bible is do not fear. 365 times.

[Sean Ryan]

I didn't know that either.

[Chase Hughes]

Do not fear or be not afraid. Like kind of variations on that, that theme. 365 times. Most common phrase in the Bible.

[Sean Ryan]

What was quantum tunneling? We know we did. We didn't cover that.

[Chase Hughes]

I don't know a lot about it, but I know that quantum tunneling proved or went back to the second principle of hermeticism, which was as above, so below that. Quantum tunneling is basically like creating some little wormhole.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay, somebody else answers, like manipulation of space and space time or something. Yeah, okay, I'm gonna have to dig into that one.

[Chase Hughes]

It's worth a watch. I feel like I'm under prepared for you to ask me that.

[Sean Ryan]

I was planning on talking about anything quantum. But I am curious. You had mentioned that these discoveries in the quantum realm are proving Ancient theories. Correct. What are some of those theories that have been proven correct?

[Chase Hughes]

The ancient theories, like the all is mind. So when it comes to consciousness as we know it, there's a couple of lead or amazing guys that are doing research right now. Rupert Sheldrake is one of them. Federico Fajin, man, I wish you would get those guys on the show.

[Sean Ryan]

You have contact with them.

[Chase Hughes]

I will get you in contact with him. Yeah. But he wrote a book called Irreducible, and it's talking about our obsession with materialism. So let's say, like, if you wanted to understand why a Chopin classical piece makes you cry or makes people cry, you say, okay, we're going to figure out why this makes people cry. So we're going to go to the symphony hall, we're going to take all of these instruments, chop them into 5 billion pieces, and one at a time, put all the pieces of these instruments under a microscope. I'm going to zoom in on the wood. I'm going to zoom in on the strings. And then, oh, somebody. It's like, oh, shoot, there's. There's music over here with notes written on it. And I'm like, all right, cut the paper up. Cut that piece of paper up and put the paper under the microscope so we can figure out music. Let's zoom into a piece of paper. So we're obsessing over material things and we're. We're ignoring things that are harder to prove and we can't. You cannot do a lab test to see why music works or why love starts happening. And it's not just neurochemical. So we're really just. Our modern day is obsessed with materialism and reductionism. So, like, let me take this violin down to one shred of wood. Let me take this entire symphony on a paper and look at one molecule under a microscope. These guys talk a lot about this stuff, man, and it is. Is so profound and beautiful. And the current theory of consciousness right now is that consciousness does not occur in the brain. And I think this was proven a couple months ago, or we had a step towards it a couple months ago. I can't remember the study, but he talks about it. Federico Fagin talks about this and Rupert Sheldrake that consciousness is something that comes from outside of our head. And our brain acts like a filter for consciousness so that when we do things like psychedelic is really muting and turning down that filter of consciousness.

[Sean Ryan]

They talk about this?

[Chase Hughes]

Oh, yeah, big time. Wow. I want you to get them on just so I can personally watch the episode.

[Sean Ryan]

I'll do everything I can to get them on. That sounds fascinating. You know, on another subject, I mean, on the break we were talking about some laser. And I've heard this too. Yeah, with a. I'll just let you do it. But basically it was lasers with ones and zeros visibly inside of the laser.

[Chase Hughes]

So let me just set this up. So if you bought like a dewalt laser level at Home Depot and it paints that line across the wall and then you put something in front of the laser to kind of diffuse it. So you take it from being a really thin laser line and then spread that sucker out so it's like six inches wide. Big fat line of laser on the wall. And then you get somebody that's on DMT or psychedelics. Any. Almost any psychedelic. I think when you look at that, you can see, number one, you can see through the wall.

[Sean Ryan]

You can see through the wall.

[Chase Hughes]

You can see through the wall where.

[Sean Ryan]

The laser is, or just through the.

[Chase Hughes]

Wall right where the laser is. You can see through through the wall. You can even put it on your arm. And the code changes on your arm. If your arm gets in front of where the wall is. The code is completely different.

[Sean Ryan]

Are you sh. What?

[Chase Hughes]

I didn't believe this. So this was viral on TikTok. Someone stole the TikTok video and reposted it on their X account. I saw this guy, his name is Danny Goler and he's one of my good friends. If you want to have him on foreign.

[Sean Ryan]

I'm listening.

[Chase Hughes]

I'll put you guys in touch. So I see this video and I'm watching the behavior of the people, observing everything to see if they're lying. Because I'm. I'm a behavioral expert. I'm looking for deception and lies and all this stuff all the time. They were all truthful. So I called my assistant, I said, get this guy wherever he is, fly him to my house or fly him where we can meet up somewhere. I want to try this out. So we flew to a place. We wound up flying to a place where DMT is not illegal and shine this thing on the wall. And I've never done DMT before until this day. And. Oh, my God, that's a whole nother three hour podcast. But while you are in the DMT state, you get close to the wall and you can see code that looks kind of like alien writing, like you'd see and then some that look like kanji, Japanese characters. But the thing is, when you're hallucinating something, like sometimes Hallucinations change and warp and modify a little bit. This is permanent, solid. So, like, and if you move your head, the code stays in the same place. And if you move the laser on the wall, like, you take the laser level and scoot it up different. Code reveals itself as the laser is moving. Wow. Then you get two or three people lined up and they all see the same thing. And I have looked into this quite a bit because I thought this. There's no way this could be true. But the first time I saw it, I wept. I wept. There's a video of me watching it on YouTube. And it's just. You're seeing something, but you're left with no answers. Like, the only thing you have coming out of that is, like, what the hell did I just see? It doesn't give you any more knowledge about anything. But the big thing is, why are we seeing code and where is it coming from and what is it made of? And why does everyone see the same exact characters if they're all looking at the same place?

[Sean Ryan]

Man, that is crazy.

[Chase Hughes]

It is bizarre. And if you put your arm in front of it, the code completely changes, but only right where your arm is.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you make. Do you have any theories on this?

[Chase Hughes]

None.

[Sean Ryan]

Nothing.

[Chase Hughes]

Once you see it, like your. Your ability to think that you have figured out is gone. It's gone. There is. I have no explanation for what the hell it is, but it's fascinating. Wow. And I think this is going to. Within our lifetime if. If Danny keeps going with this research, we're going to. We're going to have a big breakthrough and consciousness understanding of, like, what the hell it is. But it's. Man, it's beautiful and makes you feel stupid, man, at the same time.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, do you. Can I mention what you're getting ready to do or do you want to just. If you want to. We're keeping that.

[Chase Hughes]

No, you can. Yeah, I'm gonna make a video about it. Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

All right. So you're doing the. The intravenous psychedelic experience that I guess, you know, apparently basically almost nobody has done.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

And going to do some super deep work, man. I. I would. No, I would love to get you back here and just talk about what that experience was like, what you learned, what you saw, what you felt.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Would you do it again?

[Chase Hughes]

If you want to send one of your dudes down there to just to get B roll for that episode, then we can do it, man.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay.

[Chase Hughes]

So it's four to five hours of NN dmt and they're essentially following Kind of a slow drip protocol of how you would get anesthesia in an operating room. So they took these general anesthesia procedures, applied it to DMT to maintain a DMT experience for that long, and then 5 Meo DMT through a vape during that experience as well. And I don't know how it's going to be, but I'm going to be doing that soon, man.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, you know, we just talked about MK Ultra. I mean, do you, do you, do you have any fear of any thoughts, anything being injected into your mind, your consciousness, when doing an intravenous type experience.

[Chase Hughes]

Mean from someone speaking in the room or anybody? I know, I know these people.

[Sean Ryan]

You do?

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. Okay, we, we've got, we're getting to know each other right now and yeah, that would be horrifying because if, if you're doing dmt, you really got to trust the other person in the room with you that they know what they're doing.

[Sean Ryan]

Oh yeah, that's why I'm asking.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Because I've, I've had the same opportunity offered and I just, I was like, I just, I don't. Yeah, do it. I don't.

[Chase Hughes]

There's no trust that anxiety. There's an anxiety spike when you first ingest dmt, however you do it, there's kind of an anxiety spike because you have to like pop out of your body and you have to kind of surrender your life a little bit. It's like dying to the, to the chemical.

[Sean Ryan]

Regular DMT is a death experience as well.

[Chase Hughes]

Yes.

[Sean Ryan]

I did not realize that.

[Chase Hughes]

It's not like death. I mean, it's like something's taking, like you're living inside of an animal and you get to crawl out of it. It's kind of how it feels to me. But some people, like, if you're really, really wrapped in ego and like you have a lot of fear of doing that stuff, then there'll be an anxiety spike. Which is why a lot of people will microdose an MDMA right before DMT experience to help with that ego and opening your heart a little bit to, to what's going on.

[Sean Ryan]

I didn't know that either.

[Chase Hughes]

It's a beautiful thing to, to mix, especially in a micro form, so you're not like rolling on mdma. It's micro.

[Sean Ryan]

Gotcha, gotcha.

[Chase Hughes]

But that experience when you're on NN DMT is kind of like a really, really low frequency vibration. And the way that I could describe it is if you had low frequency sound that is shaped in scales, like fish scales. Sound that looks and feels like fish scales just kind of like enveloping your body until the point that you, that you're like exiting.

[Sean Ryan]

Interesting, interesting.

[Chase Hughes]

It is amazing. And Danny, the guy who did the laser experiment, he took me through DMT. My first experience, we did breath work for 15 minutes or so. You held the molecule over your heart for 5, 10, 15 minutes with gratitude and just saying thank you, thank you, thank you over and over again. And then going into the experience, I started freaking out. See, both of us were kind of military rigid and don't want to give up control really. And I kind of fought it a little bit. And this face pops out of the wall like nine feet tall in a loving way. Because you can see some crazy stuff on, on dmt, but it's very understanding and loving and pretty cool. And that's telling me to relax. And as she's saying that, Danny says you need to listen to her.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[Chase Hughes]

And because he had taken one hit of the DMT as well as I was going in and dude, it just makes you ask more questions about reality, like where is it that we go? And I've worked with a lot of scientists, a lot of people, we're doing a lot of consciousness research right now. We have a non profit called Field Consciousness Laboratory. And I've never met one person who thinks that what happens on DMT is a hallucination. Not one which is profound in itself. It's just we don't, I don't think we can understand it yet.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, on the topic of consciousness, I mean, I'm curious, what are your thoughts on remote viewing and ESP and all that kind of stuff.

[Chase Hughes]

With what we know now about consciousness and what they're starting to prove with Rupert Sheldrake and those other guys. If consciousness is external to the body, your brain is kind of like a consciousness radio receiver that's tuned to a frequency. You ever heard of sudden savant syndrome. This happens when somebody gets in a car accident, bumps their head and suddenly they speak French. And they've never learned French ever. This is well documented. Or somebody gets in a, bumps their head, falls off a bike, and then they're an expert genius at calculus or they can suddenly play the violin. It's called sudden savant syndrome. And so what? There is no possible scientific explanation for it. None whatsoever. So if our brains are little receivers of consciousness, maybe this like a little bump on the head or a little head trauma somehow modifies that dial to where that person just shifted the frequency that they're tuning into. Or something. And if sudden savant syndrome can start to show us things like that and how people experience that. And you got this stuff out here called the telepathy tapes now, where it's showing us like, we have no idea what's going on, but maybe that's what remote viewing is. It's like that person just has a skill to be able to hit that tuner knob the right way, to be able to just tune into another piece of consciousness above a file on a desk in Moscow somewhere. Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

You know, and it's just talking about consciousness. So I wanted to bring it up, but you. You'd also. You were talking about. Towards the beginning of the interview, I believe, you know, that words were talking about words, you know, and how they. Words can't describe, you know, certain psychedelic experiences, other experiences. And, you know, the first guy that I. I guess actually the second guy that I interviewed about it was Joe McMonagle. And he had talked about. I had asked him about, you know, where. Why do you have this? Why doesn't anybody else have this? He says, I think we all have, you know, the capability to potentially do this, but it's been lost through. Through generations of technology. And actually, he brought up. The first thing that he brought up was language. And he had mentioned at the beginning we would travel in packs and it was grunting and body language, facial expressions, things like that. Then we developed language, and it's just a very. It's a less efficient way of communicating. We think it's more descriptive. Maybe it is. But, you know, we had lost the ability to immediately communicate without words. And when you think about it, I mean, it's. It's.

[Chase Hughes]

Yeah. So the. If you think of a parasite, like an actual parasite, it needs a host to replicate. It invades the host without the host knowing. It uses the host to replicate itself, and it changes the host behavior so that it can replicate itself and it modifies the host behavior. Overall, that's language. Language follows all the criteria of what really defines a parasite. So it's interesting that there's a theory out there of language becoming some kind of alien parasite. But it doesn't have to be alien. The grunt that you were talking about conveyed depth and meaning. The word is a description. The word points to something. The grunt conveyed something and passed on information and passed on feelings. And instead of grunt, just meaning, I'm hungry, the grunt means, I'm hungry. I've had a bad day and several other things. I'm tired. And it conveyed information without describing things. So language was Invented initially to just sell chickens and exchange them for rice and stuff like that. And they started this with cuneiform, where they would put little symbols on tiles, and even prostitutes had this little tile that would convey this. And it was like the first printed receipt were these little cuneiform tiles. So language was designed for describing and conveying some kind of data, not for really giving deep meaning about a lot of stuff. And that's why it's so challenging to. To really do that with language. So this French philosopher, his name is Jean Baudrillard, he wrote a book called Simulacra and Simulation, where he's saying, for the rest of humanity's history, we will live in a world with more. More and more information and less and less meaning. Is everything is pointing to something. So, like, the Instagram is pointing to something. It's a simulation of something. Disney World is the ultimate simulation of something that's pointing to another simulation that has no origin. It goes pretty deep. But a lot of what we do in our lives is a simulation of something. If we look at Walmart, it's a simulation of a market with, like, wooden baskets around there. They're simulating an environment that might be familiar to our ancestors. So a lot of our lives are representations of things instead of the thing itself.

[Sean Ryan]

Interesting.

[Chase Hughes]

We get obsessed with it.

[Sean Ryan]

Interesting. Well, Chase, fascinating discussion, man. I am really happy we connected.

[Chase Hughes]

Me too, man.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you.

[Chase Hughes]

Thanks for having me on.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you.

[Chase Hughes]

Cheers.

[Sean Ryan]

I'm Sean Ryan, former Navy seal, CA contractor, and host of the Sean Ryan Show. Much of my life has been dedicated to seeking truth and getting answers, no matter how uncomfortable the questions are that we have to ask. But in the age of the psyop, that search has never been more difficult. In September of 2022, the U.S. army's 4th PSYOP group released a cryptic video on YouTube.

[Chase Hughes]

There is another very important phase of warfare.

[Sean Ryan]

It has as its target not the body, but the mind of the enemy. Between clips of troops assembling chess pieces and social unrest, phrases begin to appear on screen. They ask, have you ever wondered who's pulling the strings? These are the Psy War soldiers.

The series you're.

What you're about to listen to is an attempt to answer that question and an even bigger one. The global power brokers that conduct psychological operations constantly evolve. Technology like AI has evened the playing field. And now, in the era of social media and the democratization of information, all it takes to conduct a psyop is a smartphone.

[Chase Hughes]

Like and subscribe.

[Sean Ryan]

In each episode, we look at a different method of psychological operations, how they've evolved and how they are being deployed. There's a quote that is attributed to a scientist named E.O. wilson that says we are drowning in information while starving for wisdom. This is a life raft in that sea of both information and and misinformation. Psyops are all around us. They're conducted by corporations, governments, activist groups, intelligence agencies, foreign adversaries, and anyone who knows how to shape perception to get what they want.

The series provides an in depth look.

At how these psyops work from conversations with whistleblowers, experts, historians, tech innovators and more. We look at world events that are being shaped by highly constructed psychological operations specialists and look at the terrifying possibilities of where this could all be headed.

Along the way, you'll learn about everything.

From Russian troll farms, fake ghosts in the jungles of Vietnam, mind control cults, to the CIA's involvement in Hollywood. Do you have any people paid by the CIA who are working for television networks? The early history of psyops and psychological experiments led laid the foundation for what we see today in modern campaigns that seek to divide culture over polarizing issues. We look at where we are and how we got here, but ultimately this series is a toolkit to help you understand how you're being manipulated and how to spot the signs of a psyop.

Before the Army's viral psyop recruitment video.

Ends, the words on screen inform viewers that war is evolving and all the world's a staged this series is a peek behind the curtain. Welcome to the PSYOP. Buy it [e-mail].