The Shawn Ryan Show – Episode #260: Dale Hansen

Guest: Dale Hansen (MACV-SOG Green Beret, Past 1-in-4,000 survivor)
Host: Shawn Ryan
Date: December 8, 2025

Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, Shawn Ryan welcomes Dale Hansen, a legendary MACV-SOG veteran who survived three tours in Vietnam—where the casualty rate was an astonishing 85%, with just 1-in-4,000 odds of survival for a full year. Hansen shares formative stories from his Minnesota upbringing, unique spiritual convictions, intense combat experiences—including notable missions like Lima 50 in Cambodia—lessons in leadership, innovation on the battlefield, and his journey transitioning back into civilian life. The discussion also dives into the ethics of war, brotherhood, cross-generational veteran connections, faith, and finding purpose after extraordinary trauma.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Formative Years and Upbringing

[04:06–26:34]

Minnesota Roots: Raised in International Falls, "the cold spot in the US" ([04:09]), on a small farm without electricity or running water. Father was a WWII Army veteran—experienced major Pacific battles ([06:46]).
Early Faith: Became a Christian at five ([11:52]), recounting a memorable, literal interpretation of a preacher's metaphor about spiritual rebirth. Faith becomes a touchstone for courage and life philosophy throughout his journey.
Resilience: Relates being accidentally shot at age 13 ([19:49]), and draws parallels between that crisis and necessary decision-making under extreme pressure in combat.
Striving for Well-Roundedness: As a teen, inspired by biblical verse Luke 2:52, pursued excellence physically, intellectually, socially, and spiritually ([17:53]).

Building the Warrior Mindset

[27:02–30:08]

Navigates moral questions about combat and killing through biblical precedent—resolved in mind before ever deploying: “It’s permissible to take a life for self-defense, capital punishment and war—you know, and that’s not a problem with me” ([27:02], Dale Hansen).
Anti-Communism: Deep conviction about fighting against the atrocities he'd learned about perpetrated by the Viet Cong and NVA.

The Path to MACV-SOG

[31:22–38:07]

Special Forces Selection and Training: Enlisted voluntarily, eschewing a draft exemption as a ministerial student ([31:27]).
At the secretive Camp Crockett, only 3 out of 600 passed the SF qualifying test—a grueling simultaneous, multi-modal battery ([32:48]).
Describes the chilling SOG warning: “All of you people, all graduates, are going to be sent directly to Vietnam, to SOG, and 85% of you will be dead in three months” ([35:57]).

“The odds of living a year in SOG back then was 1 in 4,000.”
– Dale Hansen ([36:55])

MACV-SOG missions entailed deep intelligence gathering (“going over the fence”), POW snatch and recovery, and direct action, almost exclusively behind enemy lines.

First Combat Experiences & the SOG Brotherhood

[40:41–66:09]

First Missions: Early missions involved legendary team leaders (Norm Dhoni) and immediate exposure to extraordinary risk ([41:29]).
Break Contact—Continue Mission: SOG’s stern motto underscores the expectation to gather intelligence even when in enemy contact ([58:32]).
The discovery of a major NVA artillery position besieging Ben Het and calling in a 100-plane B-52 strike ([64:11]) is recounted as a career-defining success.
Close, unspoken bonds with WWII and Korean War veterans—quiet professionalism, mentorship, “never bragged or talked about it, really” ([55:53]).

Tactics, Survival, and Innovation

[70:07–71:27]

Camouflage and Psychological Warfare: Painting his face as a “death mask in green” to instill fear ([49:12]).
30-Round Magazine Innovation: Hansen and John Plaster led the push to adopt the 30-round magazine for SOG’s CAR-15s—essential for survival against well-armed enemy ([121:46], [124:18]).

“I still can’t believe you’re the reason we have 30 round magazines.”
– Shawn Ryan ([124:12])

Lima 50—The Mission That Changed Everything

[84:37–109:33]

Background: SOG’s Project Gamma supplied 75% of Vietnam War intelligence but was shuttered due to heavy infiltration ([85:40]).
Mission: Dale’s team, surrounded and heavily outnumbered in Cambodia, kills two Chinese colonels/couriers carrying a 200-page satchel of “the biggest intelligence find of the war”—including orders, enemy casualties, and secret enemy hospital coordinates ([91:43]).
Mid-battle Medical Crisis: Hansen is wounded, loses fingers—but continues the firefight, adapts to new hardships, and leads an escape under incredible adversity.
Extraction Under Fire: Dramatic escape (“hooked up in the branches of the trees...was just a second or two before he cuts it. But then...we just shot into the air like a bow and arrow” – Dale, [106:01]); weathering hailstorms during extraction.
Aftermath: The intelligence led to the release of Special Forces commander Col. Rowe, previously imprisoned by U.S. authorities over murky allegations of extrajudicial killing ([109:25]).

Processing Loss, Guilt, and Brotherhood

[113:09–118:15]

Losing team members, especially Ken Wordley: “It was difficult. There were times...I started to weep and I just started to cry...” ([113:46])
Advice for younger generations experiencing loss: encourage sacrificial service (“Missions to the Well”) and, for Christians, the hope of an afterlife (see book reference [115:05]).
Killing in war not a source of psychological distress for Dale, due to ethical clarity arrived at before combat ([117:14], [118:12]).

Reintegrating into Civilian Life

[157:45–162:54]

Returning Home: “Almost treated as criminals by certain aspects...Sad thing. The first person I saw tried to steal my beret” ([158:23]).
Struggles of post-war identity; difficulty resuming “normal life” and an eventual turn to varied careers as a martial artist, police officer, and professional carver in Alaska ([163:24], [179:50]).
Describes targeted threats—including assassination attempts—due to morally fraught policing in a highly politicized Alaska ([174:06–177:55]).

Rebirth, Faith, and Family

[189:07–190:09]

Met his wife Kathy in a serendipitous way; their marriage of over 53 years credited to “love, consideration—always looking out for each other” ([189:47]), including a humorous moment after a shooting:

“I just have one question. Why did it take you two shots?” – Kathy Hansen ([175:02])

Became a pastor for over 25 years, still serving ([190:13]), running Sitka Bible Baptist Church and emphasizing critical thinking, logic, and scripture ([191:33]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On America’s Spiritual Decline ([08:25]):

“We seem to notice things when they happen quickly and violently...We’re losing our country incrementally, piece by piece...the only thing that holds it together...is well-being. We figure as long as I am happy...I’m happy with the country. And we watch and let it dissolve.” — Dale Hansen ([08:25])
On SOG Odds ([36:55]):

“The odds of living a year in SOG back then was 1 in 4,000...Of my class, most of them were killed.” — Dale Hansen ([36:55])
On Loss and Brotherhood:

“It was difficult...There were times...I started to weep and I just started to cry, you know. And that happened more than once.”
— Dale Hansen ([113:46])
On Wife's Reaction to Duty:

“I had to kill a man last night...My wife says, ‘I just have one question. Why did it take you two shots?’”
— Dale Hansen ([175:02])
On Carving as Purpose:

“The wood is the one that I can see. I look at the piece and I say, that is good and I'm satisfied. And for me to say I'm satisfied, that's a...unique word.”
— Dale Hansen ([185:51])

Timestamps for Critical Segments

Early life, faith, and values: [04:06] – [26:34]
Decision to serve and anti-communism conviction: [27:02] – [30:08]
Special Forces and SOG selection: [31:22] – [38:07]
First missions and ethos: [40:41] – [66:09]
Lima 50 mission (Cambodia, massive intelligence find): [84:37] – [109:33]
Loss, guilt, and getting home: [113:09] – [162:54]
Innovation (car 15, 30-round mag): [121:46], [124:18]
Coping after war (carving, police work, family): [163:24] – [185:51]
Faith, sermons, critical thinking and legacy: [190:13] – [192:42]

Tone & Atmosphere

The tone is honest, reverent, and captivating—punctuated with emotion, occasional dark humor, and deep humility. Both men share mutual respect for the burdens of service, and Hansen offers unvarnished reflections on trauma, post-war alienation, faith, and perseverance.

Final Thoughts

Dale Hansen’s story is a rare and powerful account of SOG heroism under unimaginable adversity, of pushing the limits of human courage, and of forging a meaningful life in spite—and because—of trauma. His innovations (like the 30-round mag), war stories, and reflections on faith and loss provide priceless wisdom for listeners—veterans and civilians alike.

For deeper insight, check out Dale Hansen’s books:

Born Twice
SOG Missions to the Well
Find his carvings and sermons at Sitka Bible Baptist Church.

This episode is essential listening for those fascinated by Special Forces history, leadership under fire, and redemption both on and off the battlefield.

The Shawn Ryan Show – Episode #260: Dale Hansen

Guest: Dale Hansen (MACV-SOG Green Beret, Past 1-in-4,000 survivor)
Host: Shawn Ryan
Date: December 8, 2025

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Formative Years and Upbringing

[04:06–26:34]

Minnesota Roots: Raised in International Falls, "the cold spot in the US" ([04:09]), on a small farm without electricity or running water. Father was a WWII Army veteran—experienced major Pacific battles ([06:46]).
Early Faith: Became a Christian at five ([11:52]), recounting a memorable, literal interpretation of a preacher's metaphor about spiritual rebirth. Faith becomes a touchstone for courage and life philosophy throughout his journey.
Resilience: Relates being accidentally shot at age 13 ([19:49]), and draws parallels between that crisis and necessary decision-making under extreme pressure in combat.
Striving for Well-Roundedness: As a teen, inspired by biblical verse Luke 2:52, pursued excellence physically, intellectually, socially, and spiritually ([17:53]).

Building the Warrior Mindset

[27:02–30:08]

Navigates moral questions about combat and killing through biblical precedent—resolved in mind before ever deploying: “It’s permissible to take a life for self-defense, capital punishment and war—you know, and that’s not a problem with me” ([27:02], Dale Hansen).
Anti-Communism: Deep conviction about fighting against the atrocities he'd learned about perpetrated by the Viet Cong and NVA.

The Path to MACV-SOG

[31:22–38:07]

Special Forces Selection and Training: Enlisted voluntarily, eschewing a draft exemption as a ministerial student ([31:27]).
At the secretive Camp Crockett, only 3 out of 600 passed the SF qualifying test—a grueling simultaneous, multi-modal battery ([32:48]).
Describes the chilling SOG warning: “All of you people, all graduates, are going to be sent directly to Vietnam, to SOG, and 85% of you will be dead in three months” ([35:57]).

“The odds of living a year in SOG back then was 1 in 4,000.”
– Dale Hansen ([36:55])

MACV-SOG missions entailed deep intelligence gathering (“going over the fence”), POW snatch and recovery, and direct action, almost exclusively behind enemy lines.

First Combat Experiences & the SOG Brotherhood

[40:41–66:09]

First Missions: Early missions involved legendary team leaders (Norm Dhoni) and immediate exposure to extraordinary risk ([41:29]).
Break Contact—Continue Mission: SOG’s stern motto underscores the expectation to gather intelligence even when in enemy contact ([58:32]).
The discovery of a major NVA artillery position besieging Ben Het and calling in a 100-plane B-52 strike ([64:11]) is recounted as a career-defining success.
Close, unspoken bonds with WWII and Korean War veterans—quiet professionalism, mentorship, “never bragged or talked about it, really” ([55:53]).

Tactics, Survival, and Innovation

[70:07–71:27]

Camouflage and Psychological Warfare: Painting his face as a “death mask in green” to instill fear ([49:12]).
30-Round Magazine Innovation: Hansen and John Plaster led the push to adopt the 30-round magazine for SOG’s CAR-15s—essential for survival against well-armed enemy ([121:46], [124:18]).

“I still can’t believe you’re the reason we have 30 round magazines.”
– Shawn Ryan ([124:12])

Lima 50—The Mission That Changed Everything

[84:37–109:33]

Background: SOG’s Project Gamma supplied 75% of Vietnam War intelligence but was shuttered due to heavy infiltration ([85:40]).
Mission: Dale’s team, surrounded and heavily outnumbered in Cambodia, kills two Chinese colonels/couriers carrying a 200-page satchel of “the biggest intelligence find of the war”—including orders, enemy casualties, and secret enemy hospital coordinates ([91:43]).
Mid-battle Medical Crisis: Hansen is wounded, loses fingers—but continues the firefight, adapts to new hardships, and leads an escape under incredible adversity.
Extraction Under Fire: Dramatic escape (“hooked up in the branches of the trees...was just a second or two before he cuts it. But then...we just shot into the air like a bow and arrow” – Dale, [106:01]); weathering hailstorms during extraction.
Aftermath: The intelligence led to the release of Special Forces commander Col. Rowe, previously imprisoned by U.S. authorities over murky allegations of extrajudicial killing ([109:25]).

Processing Loss, Guilt, and Brotherhood

[113:09–118:15]

Losing team members, especially Ken Wordley: “It was difficult. There were times...I started to weep and I just started to cry...” ([113:46])
Advice for younger generations experiencing loss: encourage sacrificial service (“Missions to the Well”) and, for Christians, the hope of an afterlife (see book reference [115:05]).
Killing in war not a source of psychological distress for Dale, due to ethical clarity arrived at before combat ([117:14], [118:12]).

Reintegrating into Civilian Life

[157:45–162:54]

Returning Home: “Almost treated as criminals by certain aspects...Sad thing. The first person I saw tried to steal my beret” ([158:23]).
Struggles of post-war identity; difficulty resuming “normal life” and an eventual turn to varied careers as a martial artist, police officer, and professional carver in Alaska ([163:24], [179:50]).
Describes targeted threats—including assassination attempts—due to morally fraught policing in a highly politicized Alaska ([174:06–177:55]).

Rebirth, Faith, and Family

[189:07–190:09]

Met his wife Kathy in a serendipitous way; their marriage of over 53 years credited to “love, consideration—always looking out for each other” ([189:47]), including a humorous moment after a shooting:

“I just have one question. Why did it take you two shots?” – Kathy Hansen ([175:02])

Became a pastor for over 25 years, still serving ([190:13]), running Sitka Bible Baptist Church and emphasizing critical thinking, logic, and scripture ([191:33]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On America’s Spiritual Decline ([08:25]):

“We seem to notice things when they happen quickly and violently...We’re losing our country incrementally, piece by piece...the only thing that holds it together...is well-being. We figure as long as I am happy...I’m happy with the country. And we watch and let it dissolve.” — Dale Hansen ([08:25])
On SOG Odds ([36:55]):

“The odds of living a year in SOG back then was 1 in 4,000...Of my class, most of them were killed.” — Dale Hansen ([36:55])
On Loss and Brotherhood:

“It was difficult...There were times...I started to weep and I just started to cry, you know. And that happened more than once.”
— Dale Hansen ([113:46])
On Wife's Reaction to Duty:

“I had to kill a man last night...My wife says, ‘I just have one question. Why did it take you two shots?’”
— Dale Hansen ([175:02])
On Carving as Purpose:

“The wood is the one that I can see. I look at the piece and I say, that is good and I'm satisfied. And for me to say I'm satisfied, that's a...unique word.”
— Dale Hansen ([185:51])

Timestamps for Critical Segments

Early life, faith, and values: [04:06] – [26:34]
Decision to serve and anti-communism conviction: [27:02] – [30:08]
Special Forces and SOG selection: [31:22] – [38:07]
First missions and ethos: [40:41] – [66:09]
Lima 50 mission (Cambodia, massive intelligence find): [84:37] – [109:33]
Loss, guilt, and getting home: [113:09] – [162:54]
Innovation (car 15, 30-round mag): [121:46], [124:18]
Coping after war (carving, police work, family): [163:24] – [185:51]
Faith, sermons, critical thinking and legacy: [190:13] – [192:42]

Tone & Atmosphere

Final Thoughts

For deeper insight, check out Dale Hansen’s books:

Born Twice
SOG Missions to the Well
Find his carvings and sermons at Sitka Bible Baptist Church.

This episode is essential listening for those fascinated by Special Forces history, leadership under fire, and redemption both on and off the battlefield.

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#260 Dale Hanson - Why MACV-SOG Had an 85% Casualty Rate and 1-in-4000 Odds

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Summary

The Shawn Ryan Show – Episode #260: Dale Hansen

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Formative Years and Upbringing

Building the Warrior Mindset

The Path to MACV-SOG

First Combat Experiences & the SOG Brotherhood

Tactics, Survival, and Innovation

Lima 50—The Mission That Changed Everything

Processing Loss, Guilt, and Brotherhood

Reintegrating into Civilian Life

Rebirth, Faith, and Family

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Critical Segments

Tone & Atmosphere

Final Thoughts

Summary

The Shawn Ryan Show – Episode #260: Dale Hansen

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Formative Years and Upbringing

Building the Warrior Mindset

The Path to MACV-SOG

First Combat Experiences & the SOG Brotherhood

Tactics, Survival, and Innovation

Lima 50—The Mission That Changed Everything

Processing Loss, Guilt, and Brotherhood

Reintegrating into Civilian Life

Rebirth, Faith, and Family

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Critical Segments

Tone & Atmosphere

Final Thoughts