The Shawn Ryan Show – Episode #265

Guest: Lee Strobel
Date: December 25, 2025
Title: "Who is the Real Santa Claus & What Evidence Connects Jesus to Christmas?"

Episode Overview

In this engaging Christmas special, host Shawn Ryan welcomes back renowned Christian apologist and former investigative journalist Lee Strobel to delve deep into the origins of Christmas, the historical and theological evidence connecting Jesus to the holiday, and to explore the cultural figure of Santa Claus. The conversation blends faith, scholarship, and real-world spiritual curiosity, providing answers to the most persistent questions about Christ’s birth, prophecies, traditions, and beliefs at the heart of the season. Strobel shares new insights from the updated edition of his book "The Case for Christmas," and together they tackle listener questions, skepticism, prophecy, and the meaning of faith in the modern world.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Revival of Christian Faith & Generation Z Spiritual Curiosity

• Current Trends:
  • Lee describes a spiritual revival, especially among young men (Gen Z and Alphas). He attributes this to a pervasive desire for truth in a culture flooded with misinformation and media manipulation.

    "Young people...they've been lied to so much. ... A lot of young people get to the point where I'd like to base my life on something solid." (Lee, 04:18)

• Statistics:
  • Barna research shows 3x as many taking a spiritual step over a political one in response to major cultural events.

2. The Importance of Doubt & Asking Questions

• Normalizing Doubt:
  • Lee encourages open discussion of questions and doubts, using the biblical example of John the Baptist.

    "Questions and doubts...let it out, talk about it, investigate it, do what I did as an atheist." (Lee, 07:25) "We should feel liberated as Christians or as spiritual seekers say, it's okay to have questions. It's natural, it's expected." (Lee, 09:58)

3. The Prophecy and Miracle of the Virgin Birth

• Isaiah’s Prophecy:

  • The Old Testament (Isaiah 7:14, ~700 years before Jesus) predicted the Messiah's virgin birth, a claim often debated over translation ("alma" vs. "bethulah").
  • Lee explains how the Greek translation before Christ’s birth chose the word meaning "virgin."

    "We knew 700 years before it happened. ... The Messiah would be born of a virgin." (Lee, 15:05)

• Genesis Foreshadowing:

  • Even Genesis 3:15 cryptically foreshadows the virgin birth (“seed of a woman”), despite women biologically lacking a "seed." Lee connects this to the need for divine intervention for Jesus’ conception.

    "[God] can create the Y chromosome… that's nothing compared to the creation of the cosmos, which is unbelievable." (Lee, 23:26)

• Theological Purpose:

  • The virgin birth interrupts the transmission of original sin, allowing Jesus to be born sinless.

    "There is something about the conception of the child through the Holy Spirit that... created sinlessness in the baby who is born." (Lee, 25:02)

4. Mary, Joseph, and the Nativity

• Mary’s Selection & Role:
  • Mary is depicted as a young woman of extraordinary faith and devotion, chosen despite being a sinner.

    "She must have been a woman of great devotion, great faith, great love for God..." (Lee, 27:43)

• Joseph’s Lineage:
  • Joseph, a carpenter from the line of David, plays a vital protective and adoptive father role, fulfilling prophecy about the Messiah's descent.
    • Mark’s gospel refers to Jesus as “Mary's son,” an anomaly in Hebrew tradition, subtly hinting at Jesus’ unique conception. (38:31)

5. Bethlehem: Why Did Jesus Need to be Born There?

• Census and Fulfillment of Prophecy:
  • The census (Quirinius, procurator/governor) compelled Joseph and Mary to travel to Bethlehem, the City of David, fulfilling Micah's prophecy (Micah 5:2).

    "The birth of Jesus...in Bethlehem was predicted and prophesied 500 years in advance by the Prophet Micah." (Lee, 45:49)

  • New scholarship reconciles the historic census timeline, affirming Luke’s accuracy.
• Practical Details:
  • Luke’s Gospel likely mistranslated the Greek "katalima" as "inn"; it should read "guest room," correcting the familiar nativity narrative (see “Notable Moments”).

6. The Christmas Star, the Magi, and the Gifts

• Magi (“Wise Men”):
  • The Magi were eastern astrologers, likely from Persia, who followed a "star." Matthew’s inclusion affirms broad redemption (Jews and Gentiles).

    "Jesus is the savior, not just of the Jewish people, but for all humankind." (Lee, 52:46)

• Nature of the Star:
  • Could have been a nova, planetary conjunction (Jupiter/Saturn in Pisces, 7 BC), or supernatural sign; their gifts (gold, frankincense, myrrh) each carried symbolic meaning (kingship, priesthood, sacrificial death).

7. The Real Story Behind "No Room in the Inn"

• Katalima – The Guest Room:
  • The Greek "katalima" is best translated as "guest room," not "inn." Jesus was likely born in a family’s home’s main room rather than a barn or public inn. (See Notable Moments).

8. Historical and Mathematical Evidence for Jesus as Messiah

• Fulfilled Prophecy:
  • Strobel recounts calculations by mathematician Peter Stoner: odds of one person fulfilling 48 Old Testament messianic prophecies by chance are 1 in a trillion-trillion (13 trillions).
• Isaiah 53:
  • Shawn and Lee read and discuss this powerful messianic prophecy, emphasizing its specific and predictive power.

    "[Reading Isaiah 53] ... Who does this sound like? He was despised and rejected by mankind... he was pierced for our transgressions..." (Lee, 63:00-65:00)

9. Why December 25? Christmas’ Date Explained

• Historical Reasoning:
  • Early Christians didn’t celebrate birthdays but calculated Jesus’ conception and birth by matching the date of the crucifixion (March 25) to conception and adding nine months (December 25).

    "In the year 200, Tertullian… determined that Jesus died on March 25. Therefore… conceived by the Holy Spirit on March 25. Fast forward nine months, December 25." (Lee, 34:04-36:05)

10. Exploration of Faith, Doubt, and Interdenominational Views

• Assurance and Narrowness of Salvation:
  • Salvation is a free gift through Jesus alone ("narrow path"), not works or religious affiliation.

    “Jesus said the way is narrow… but the narrowness refers to only one person, only comes through Jesus.” (Lee, 87:32-89:30)

• Comparing Islam & Christianity:
  • Lee relates conversations with Muslims, including Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Nabeel Qureshi, detailing the irreconcilable doctrinal claims (e.g., Jesus’ crucifixion, deity, and atonement).

11. Hearing from God & Community Accountability

• Wrestling with Direction and Doubt:
  • Shawn’s struggle for clear guidance and Lee’s wisdom: combine scripture, mature Christian counsel, prayer, and life circumstances to “test the spirits.”

    “Test the spirits. How do we do that? We test things... Is this contrary to the word of God? ... What are my committed Christian friends saying?” (Lee, 116:54-119:00)

  • Highlights the importance of small groups/accountability.

12. Who is the Real Santa Claus?

• Historical St. Nicholas:

  • The original "Santa Claus" was Nicholas of Myra (b. 270 AD), a wealthy and generous Christian bishop known for his anonymous gift-giving and defense of Christian orthodoxy.
  • Story behind stockings: legend of Nicholas providing dowries to save three sisters from poverty.
  • Modern image shaped by Dutch legends (“Sinterklaas”) and Coca-Cola’s 1930s advertising.

    “He was a man of love and truth... he gave away all his wealth. ... That’s why we give gifts on Christmas Day.” (Lee, 124:31-128:00)

• On “Xmas”:

  • "X" is actually an ancient Christian abbreviation for Christ (“Christos” in Greek), not an act of secular erasure.

    “So the X in Xmas refers to Christ. ... You’re not taking him out of Christmas.” (Lee, 83:06-85:08)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Doubt & Faith:
  • “It doesn’t surprise God. God’s not going, what? What do you mean? ... among those born of women, there’s no one greater than John—John, the guy who dared to ask a question.” (Lee, 08:36)
• On Translating “Inn”/“Katalima”:
  • “The biggest mistake … boils down to one word. … The Greek word is katalima. … Most translators now agree it’s best understood as ‘guest room.’” (Lee, 73:09-76:30)
• On Prophecy Odds:
  • “The odds of any human being coincidentally fulfilling just 48 of these ancient prophecies would be one chance in a trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion...” (Lee, 59:19)
• On Isaiah 53:
  • “If I were to read that to you right now and say, who does this describe? You would say Jesus. ... It was written hundreds of years before he was born.” (Lee, 61:48)
• On Authentic Christian Faith:
  • “The best stories are the ones that turn out to be true. ... Because it’s true, that gives it just an awe inspiring nature.” (Lee, 66:07)
• On “Xmas”:
  • “The earliest Christians … would abbreviate ‘Christos’ … with an X. … So, in fact, the X in ‘Xmas’ is shorthand for Christ.” (Lee, 83:06-85:08)
• On St. Nicholas:
  • “He was the most generous guy. … He gave away all his wealth. He was such a gift giver … and people in remembrance of this St Nicholas would give people gifts.” (Lee, 124:31-127:00)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Discussion of Christian revival among the young: 04:18–06:00
• Doubt and faith are not at odds: 07:25–10:15
• Prophecies of the Virgin Birth: 15:05–17:47, 21:09–24:29
• Why the Virgin Birth matters: 24:29–27:37
• Why Jesus’ lineage and Bethlehem matter: 38:26–45:49
• Exploring the real “inn”/ nativity scene: 73:09–78:00
• Magi, the star, and symbolism: 46:24–53:45
• Mathematical odds of prophecy fulfillment: 58:47–61:48
• Reading and commentary on Isaiah 53: 62:39–66:07
• Reason for December 25 as Christmas: 34:12–37:00
• Who was the real St. Nicholas/Santa Claus: 124:29–128:00
• On “Xmas” and its origins: 83:06–86:39

Takeaways

• The evidence for Christmas and Jesus’ birth isn’t only faith-based but is rooted in prophecy, history, rigorous investigation, and translation accuracy.
• Christianity encourages questions, skepticism, and robust investigation—doubt can lead to deeper faith.
• Many familiar Christmas traditions (date, nativity setting, Santa) have rich, sometimes misunderstood, historical and theological origins.
• The essence of Christmas points beyond ceremony to the miracle and immense implications of Jesus’s incarnation for all of humanity.
• The show closes with Strobel’s moving story of a listener whose life was transformed after hearing his last Shawn Ryan appearance, underscoring the program’s spiritual reach and impact.

To sum up: This episode offers a clear, fascinating exploration of the evidence for Christmas, why it matters, how traditions began, the power and rationality of faith, and how the spirit of Christmas endures both in history and our hearts today.