A (5:26)

I can't wait to dig in a little bit more. Before we do, though, let me give you. Everybody gets an introduction here, okay? Okay. JU Founder, Executive Chairman and President of Nano Nuclear Energy. Executive Chairman and President of List Technologies, the only US Origin in patented technology for laser uranium enrichment. Started your career as an analyst at Deutsche bank on Wall Street. Advocate for advanced nuclear energy and American innovation. Under your leadership, nanonuclear energy reached over 3 billion market capitalization in value, raised over 600 million to date. 1 billion of future financing structured and became Wall Street's Cinderella story of 2024. Is the number one top IPO performer. That's fucking insane, dude. Congratulations.

B (6:21)

Thank you.

A (6:22)

You have a degree in psychology and you've said I'm not supposed to be here.

B (6:28)

That's right.

A (6:29)

So we're going to talk about your life story, get into all things nuclear. But Polymarket posted something pretty relevant to what we're talking about here recently. So Polymarket says that there is only a 4% chance that the US grants a license for new nuclear. For a new nuclear reactor in 2025. Do you think it's possible that it happens in 2026?

B (6:58)

There's so many, I would say, developments happening that could possibly happen. So 4%. I would say it's kind of low. I would probably push it towards 20%. But the larger reactors that are being brought back, there's a chance that happens where. But. But new for. For a new company. I would say not in the field where we're at, which is micro reactors, but for maybe some of these larger ones out there that I'm not aware of, I would say.

A (7:32)

So you think there's a 20% chance that they'll approve it by the end of 2025 or in 26?

B (7:38)

26. No, 25. I mean, it's pretty much done. Yeah, it's already done, but 26. There is a chance. Just because the current administration is being so proactive and they're advocating and even the Secretary of Energy is saying under this administration there will be a nuclear renaissance. So I feel like there's so much momentum in this space and, you know, seeing some new nuclear reactor being granted, whether it's an old one that's being brought back or. And given to some new player or. I don't think any larger new ones will come online, but maybe an existing one that will be given to a new player potentially.

A (8:22)

Gotcha. Yeah, gotcha. Do you know how many reactors we have that are non. That aren't working right now?

B (8:29)

I mean, I don't. I don't know exactly to that, but there's currently about 94 civil nuclear reactors in the US and they bring more back online, I would say. So it might be a 95, 96 soon, but that. That was the last number I researched.

A (8:48)

Right on, right on. Well, a couple of things to knock out here real quick. Everybody gets a gift on the show.

B (8:55)

Okay, so you make nuclear reactors.

A (8:59)

I make gummy bears.

B (9:01)

So I love gummy bears.

A (9:03)

Good deal.

B (9:03)

I love gummy bears.

A (9:06)

And then I got a Patreon account. It's a subscription account. And they're the reason that I get to be here with you today.

B (9:12)

Right.

A (9:13)

So one of the things I do is I offer them the opportunity to ask every guest a question. And this is from a former Navy nuke guy, Stephen Casey. I'm a former U.S. navy nuclear power operator of eight years. What is the realistic risk associated with large scale SMR use? We had two years of intensive training before operating a reactor. Nearly all nuclear accidents have been from a lack of training slash disregarding safety protocols, which would seem to accelerate with wide scale SMR distribution. Recall Chernobyl, Three Mile island, and SL1 in Idaho. A US army reactor experiment, all of which melted down based on failure to follow proper procedures. Is this level of training for an SMR going to be sufficient to prevent an accident?

B (10:13)

Yes, it will be. And also we have to look at the technologies here. The technologies for small reactors and microreactors. Many of them are not using liquid coolants like the big civil reactors. Like what, Chernobyl and Fukushima, what happened there? So these reactors, the new nuclear technologies, they use fuel like Triso, which we use at nanonuclear, where it's coated with essentially tank armor and it passively cools. It could never explode. So training will be in a different type of level, I would say, but the safety profile is totally different. For example, we're building our Chronos MMR on the campus of the University of Illinois. And literally across the reactor is dorm rooms. Right. So.

A (11:06)

Wow.

B (11:06)

So to answer his question, it's a totally different ball game here, I would say, with new nuclear technologies, with microreactors. This is called the Gen 4, or the walkaway Safe reactors, I would call it.

A (11:19)

Okay, okay, that's good. That's. That's good to know. All right, Jay, so let's get into your life story. We got into it a little bit about, you know, where you grew Up, I think we got to about three years old.

B (11:31)

Yeah, sure. So I'll take it a step back. So my parents are from a farm in southern China by Hong Kong. So in a tropical weather, basically. I came here when I was 1 years old. So I don't even remember anything about China. I grew up on the Upper west side of New York.

A (11:53)

Why did they come here?

B (11:54)

Manhattan? They came here for a better life. China is not China. Back then, I remember my dad saying to me, when he was extremely poor, he would just eat rice and salt. Like, like having chicken would be like, you know, lux. A luxury delicacy, right? So it was, it was really bad back then, I would say. But you know, the China now when he goes back, he's like, he wants to live there because he speaks. Yeah, he speaks the language over here. You know, he never really took on English. He knows enough to get by. But because New York City, you could live in a cultural bubble, right? So there's Chinatown, right? You just go. My parents literally would just go shop in Chinatown, pick up the food, see doctors there, do all their living day to day living there, buying things, medicine, pharmacies, and then just bring it back to the Upper west side so that cultured didn't have to change for them. And, and New York has that with the Latino community, with, with other cultures as well. Like you could live in a cultural bubble. So my parents really never learned full on English, even though they've been here like 40 something years. Wow. Yeah. Wow.

A (13:19)

What, so he, your dad would go back to China today, you think?

B (13:23)

Oh, he's been back. He, he's, he loves it there. Recently though, he's, he's been diagnosed with like early stage dementia. So he's kind of rehabbing here and figuring things out. But yeah, he wants to live in China. He just, he loves it. It's the, it's, it's in a whole new world. I mean, you go to some of these cities, they're more, I would say, technology savvy than the US like everything is at a fingertip. Everything. No one carries cash anymore. It's happening here, obviously, because what do.

A (13:57)

You think about that? A lot of people are worried about a cashless society. You know, social, credit score, all that kind of shit. That's all going on over there.

B (14:07)

Well then you add in crypto, right? So this whole digital renaissance too is happening. And that hard asset, that cash you would transact with, merchants are fading, right? Everyone taps. Now China's been tapping for a while. No one carries cash anymore. And he loves it out there. Just because certain areas he, like, he's, he's lived in certain villages and he is cheap. Right. So he could live like a king out there. Where? Over in Manhattan? It's so expensive. Right. With inflation, where out there? It's kind of controlled, I would say.

A (14:48)

Right on. What do you think about that? Dad wants wanting to go live in.

B (14:54)

I mean, he's been living, he's been traveling out there. He'll ask me for some money. He's like, hey, son, like, I'm having a good time out here. And you know what? When I look back at his life too, he was top of his class in high school. And then when his teachers all said, hey, what college are you going to? He said, I'm not going to college. My mom said, I have to work. So he picked up a trade, which was carpentry. So he, he's always been a studious person. Like, every single day I see him reading the paper, reading books. And I felt bad for him growing up because I know his potential would have been tremendous. He could have been a scholar. But because of his circumstances, he had to pick up a trade. And now that he goes back, he feels amazing, like he could be someone, I would say. So I, I supported him on that because, you know, he put in the work to raise me and, and I never had a close relationship with him. I think because of the cultural difference and my. I would say Chinese is basically kindergarten level, so I could never argue with my parents. It's like, stop. Or like, I'm hungry, you know, Like, I could never really get into it with them. So.

A (16:18)

Man, that is wild, man.

B (16:20)

So I. So I could talk about the foods I like and things, but I could never get deep, like, emotionally connected with my parents. And I think that is the issue with me being Americanized. It's just I lack that, like, understanding of their history. Yeah. And they would tell me certain things and, and I understood, you know, parts of it, but I never understood the whole picture. I would say.

A (16:48)

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B (18:45)

No, of course I'm close, like with my mom and my dad, but, you know, I just don't. Because I have to operate so many companies and my time, I try to visit him. Like currently he's in the hospital, my dad, for the rehabbing from dementia. And also he hurt himself recently, so he is getting older. So I'm trying to visit him more, spend more time with him. And he really enjoys my time. When I see him, I think he'll ask me for like money. And I'm like, why, why you're in the hospital? Where are you going to? But I think he's like giving it to the nurses to like, you know, maybe he. Maybe he's like, yeah, scrub my balls or something. I don't know, right? But. But who knows? Who knows what's happening? And I'm like, why do you need money? And he's like, just give me money. And then I think his early dementia is kicking in. He'll say to me, every time I'm going, he's like, are we gonna have a barbecue tomorrow? And I'm like, yeah, like, what do you want? You want some sweet and sour pork? Like you, you know, like, you want some barbecue chicken? Like, so I just play along with some of this stuff he says, and. And you know, I'm just adding to, to. To the fun? Yeah, I'm making him happy. I just. All I care about is just making the guy happy.

A (20:06)

That's cool, man. That's cool. So how. I mean, so how did you. You grew up in the Bronx?

B (20:12)

No, I grew up on the Upper west side. He worked in the. In the Bronx. So I grew up on the Upper west side. There's a movie out there called Little Manhattan, and it's about a kid who grows up pretty much in a 1 mile radius of man, that's like my life. So I grew up on the Upper west side. You know, I would say a few avenues away is Central Park. You know, it was close to a synagogue. And then I grew up with a lot of Latinos. So early. Early on, they would teach me curse words, right? So. So I'll learn all these curse words and we'll be at, like the park or, you know, playing basketball or. Or even manhunt in the Museum of Natural History. That's a pretty cool situation. Stickball on the street, right? So I grew up like that typical inner city kid life, and. But it got me in trouble. Like, those words they taught me in Spanish, I would regurgitate it to other Spanish kids, and they're like. And I got into many fights because I remember one time I said something about, your mother is dead. All right? It translated to something like that. And the guy was like, my mom is dead. And then I was like. And then he waited for me to jump me with like 10 other kids. So literally, I grew up like that inner city life. And, you know, I think it built a lot of character in me. But, yeah, I would never trade it now. Like, I really enjoy living and growing up in Manhattan and a lot of people. How do you grow up in Manhattan? It's crazy. They are residential pockets of it, you know, like the Upper west side, where it is more residential, there's not like skyscrapers everywhere. Right? Yeah.

A (22:05)

I've always wondered what childhood would be like in Manhattan.

B (22:09)

Yeah, it's. You can't have any guns. Every.

A (22:12)

That's why I don't live there.

B (22:14)

Yeah, there you go.

A (22:15)

But, yeah, but, yeah, it's just. It's like a whole nother world to me. I grew up out in the woods, so. Yeah, but so were you. Were you into entrepreneurship, business at a young age?

B (22:30)

Yeah, I think, you know, living in Manhattan, you have that social, economic kind of separation, right? You see, just. Just moving over one block, there's million dollar homes, right? Condos, brownstones. And you move two avenues away, it's tenement buildings, walk ups, no elevators, you know, and I call it railroad apartments, where it's a long narrow hall and it's like, there's your kitchen, there's your bathroom, there's your first bedroom, and then it leads into another small bedroom. So the discrepancy is always there. And this is why I think there's a new mayor, right? Because he's saying, hey, I'm going to try to fix that discrepancy with the rich and the poor and give more of that medium sense to people where they could have a better life. Right? So I grew up in that type of situation where I see kids having all these, you know, like luxuries and they could eat certain things and, and I couldn't. And I would ask my parents, like, why can't I do that? But I realized that, look, you know, we just didn't have it financially. Right?

A (23:51)

Yeah, yeah. What, go down a little rabbit hole? I mean, you live in Manhattan, right?

B (23:57)

Yes.

A (23:57)

What is, what is the sentiment about Memdani?

B (24:00)

You know, I think I see a.

A (24:05)

Lot of people excited. I also see a lot of people pissed.

B (24:08)

I think initially there's that mad rush situation with anything that happens that's new. And you know, in the New York Post, I was reading, you know, a ton of people are buying houses in Connecticut because they're trying to get out now. Especially the, the, the, the ultra high net worth. They're just trying to move out because of the increased taxes, right. If you add 1, 2%, that makes a huge difference to some of these larger whales. I, I would call them. So this is frenzy of buying houses kind of in the surrounding tri state area and getting away from that. But at the same time, you know, I was in that world, right? Like I was in the world where my parents didn't have much money. So I recognize why people voted for him, right? So people with, let's say where I'm at now, I see why also they want to run away now because they think this is me too much, too much liberal things going on. Like even the police already, I mean, it's been well known that they don't have enough power anymore. Like, people aren't scared of the police, right? When I grew up, we're terrified. Like you're smoking a joint somewhere on the corner, you're like, oh my God, oh my God, I'm gonna die. And then not only that, your parents, you come from immigrant parents, they're gonna whip your ass. You know, like my mom, my dad will.

A (25:40)

You were probably growing Up.

B (25:41)

Right.

A (25:41)

When Giuliani and, yes. Bernie Kerrick were cleaning the city up. Right.

B (25:45)

Yeah, I actually, I remember Giuliani when he was, when he was getting, like, advocating for votes. He was out on a subway stop. I came out and he's like handing out like, vote for me.

A (25:58)

No shit.

B (25:58)

I remember I was, I was, I think I was in high school, like, or something. But I remember all of that too, you know. Yeah. When that all happened, you know, New York was a different place. I remember. You know, I think, I think Bloomberg started that like, stop and frisk situation and then, you know, and then he went back when I think he ran for president recently, and he was like, oh, that was wrong of me. But is it wrong? Like, you know, does it make New York safer? You just have to think about this stuff.

A (26:32)

Yeah.

B (26:33)

Yeah.

A (26:33)

What do you think? I mean, are you excited he's in there? You got.

B (26:36)

I mean, I'm always indifferent about things. I mean, I don't like the fact that there's. There will be higher taxes potentially. But, you know, like I said, I've been on both sides, so, you know, I'm indifferent. I have to see what he accomplishes. Got you. Like, I can't really rush to judgment right now. Yeah.

A (26:55)

Yeah. Good way to be.

B (26:57)

Yeah.

A (26:58)

All right, well, let's keep going with your childhood.

B (27:00)

Sure. Yeah. So, you know, grew up on the Upper west side, went to junior high school, Columbus Academy, which was 10 blocks away, then went to high school, called High School for Environmental Studies. So maybe once again, there's some type of foreshadowing there. And that was a mile away. Right. And after graduating, I felt like, you know what, I'm just going to work and go to school. That's what many, I would say, New Yorkers do. They go to school and work at the same. So they commute. Right. They're not, they're not going away to, you know, some universities and taking out massive loans. Like, I rather stay put, work at the same time, go to a city college where I. It's not that expensive. There's government subsidies. So that's what I did. But I took a long route. I started at one college. Baruch wasn't ready for college, so I left. And also, I think I just felt too poor in life. So I ended up working three part time jobs, so. Three jobs. And then I realized, I need that paper. I need that diploma. So I sucked it up. I actually ended up in community college.

A (28:21)

And you weren't, you weren't like a phenomenal student or anything.

B (28:24)

Not book smart at all. I really hated school. I mean, I graduated with a C minus average in psychology. And the reason why I picked psychology is the easiest subject. So I literally wanted to just get the fuck out. Literally a C minus average, minus average. I was like, let me get the fuck. Let me get out, right? And. And I graduated and I was like, that's all I need, that piece of paper because that's not going to determine my future. I'm going to determine my future. And during that time, I would say, this is when I call it the matrix happened for me. And the matrix to me is being able to figure things out and getting to where you want to get to, but doing it in a different angle. I would say, like a loophole you could call it. So, you know, I was going to school at City College in Harlem of New York, and, you know, getting my C minus degree out there. And then I was working full time at Columbia University, which is an Ivy League, right? So once again, that discrepancy there, right? So what I realized when I was working at Columbia is value creation. So value creation to me is what can you do for that employer or, or that company to keep you or to keep promoting you, right? So what I did at Columbia is they had this archaic financial system there, like multiple systems, accounts payable, receivable, et cetera. And I learned every single financial system, okay? And so when Columbia restructured their departments, they put a business manager in each one. And I was about 21 years old, didn't finish, you know, college yet, so I didn't even have my bachelor's degree. But I created value for them because I knew all their systems and how to operate that. So when they were restructuring, I applied for that, but the requirements was a bachelor's degree with three years of experience. Didn't have that. But I created value because I had, I learned all their archaic systems. So, so they gave me a chance. They. They gave me the job. And my assistant actually had her master's degree.

A (30:54)

Are you serious?

B (30:55)

Yeah. So she was fucking pissed at me. She was like, who's this fucking young Asian kid is my boss now? But I became the business manager of the history department. And I see you have a ton of history here of things, so I admire that. And because I created value, and then what came with that is I get to take classes for free in Ivy League. So I'm like, oh, wait, you're telling me I could be an Ivy Leaguer even though I'm getting a C minus average up in City College of New York and Harlem, right? There's only a couple stops away. So it was close by. And then at that point I was in charge of I think a dozen people in the history department. They all reported to a 21 year old kid. But because I created value and I knew all their archaic system and I helped the professors with their financial reporting as well because they all get these massive grants, right? And I was able to, you know, like put them together, reported properly and then also help help with their travels and etc. Expenses. So that part created value. And then the next part is what I realized Too is at CUNY's or city colleges in New York, you get the tier 2, 3 jobs, right? You get different companies recruiting these students from the tier 2, tier 3 companies. Tier 1 companies go to the Ivy Leagues. And then I said to myself, I need to become a student. The only reason so I could get into the job database. So that's what I did. And this is where the matrix happened for me. I, I was able to convince the dean to let me in that I'm going to take this is after I graduate. I just graduated with my psychology degree, C minus average. He was like, you got a C minus average, Like I can't let you in here. And I'm like, look, I just want to take a few classes, it's not a big deal. And then I got recommendations from the professors I worked for. So they all wrote me recommendations. The dean's like, fine. So I, I started becoming a student. Obviously I'm going to fail. Like I, I, I didn't care, right? I cared about the job, the tier one jobs in there. And guess where that job came from? Deutsche bank, which is an Investment bank at 60 Wall street in, in Manhattan. So I said, okay, I'm going to apply for all these investments, banking jobs. I would literally make it to the top three of each one. But I had no experience, right? And, and then at Deutsche bank, the managing director, I literally said to him, look, I'm going to work harder than anybody out there on the trading floor. I work full time, I went to school full time. So hard work was nothing new to me. And I'm going to bust my ass and I'll learn everything. It's a job, you know, I'm going to do it every day. I'm going to, I'm going to get really good at it. I'll stay last here, you know. And he basically was like, I like it. And, and you know, I graduated later. I was probably like 24 so most people graduate what, 21, 22. I was 24. So it's a bit older, but more life lessons, I would say, and work experience than, than just coming out of college.

A (34:34)

When you talk about the Matrix, what. Can you be a little more specific?

B (34:39)

Yeah, so the matrix to me is figuring things out but doing it in a way where it's reachable. Right. Like for me to get that job on Wall street, what happened to me is I grew up in Manhattan. So I said, where, where do you make money? Where, where's all the money coming from? Wall Street. So how do I get there?

A (35:01)

Right, you figure out the goal and reverse engineer how to get there.

B (35:05)

Exactly.

A (35:05)

Okay.

B (35:06)

You just have to figure out how to get there, but do it in a way where it's actually doable. Right. Like the way I, I've done it. And this is why I say I shouldn't be here just because I figure things out. And I had friends too. For example, this was a slick thing. On resumes, they'll put like they were, they went to school four years, but they never graduated. But the employer thinks you graduated. So they, but they could have gone part time for four years, right? So they'll submit their resume. And a lot of these banks at the time, I mean, maybe back then, I don't know about now, but they wouldn't even check, I think their HR departments, oh, they have four years at this college. All right, that means he has his degree, they'll let him in. And some of my friends would get jobs too on Wall street because they put four years. No, yeah, I didn't do that. I did it differently, but I got my C minus average. So they didn't graduate, but I did, you know, so yeah, I was there from up till 2009. This is when the big bank meltdown happened and the financial crisis. I mean, I think Citibank was at a dollar a share. You know, the, everyone was, was losing money and it was a recession. And so I left. I saw my bonuses and my pay pretty much vanish. So I had to reinvent myself.

A (36:38)

How did you do that?

B (36:39)

So in 2009, left, I saved up some money and essentially, you know, started investing into startups and into, yeah, into startups and seeing how these startups over time were being built. And I think that's where I learned how to build the company.

A (37:02)

What kind of startups were you interested in, for example?

B (37:06)

It'll be very diversified. I, I didn't know what I was doing. Right. So I would just put small amounts of money like 10 grand, 20 grand into certain things. But the real experience I learned from that was, you know, when you lose, you don't lose the lesson. So, you know, many startups fail, let's admit that. But mainly what I realize is the egos of the founders, also. The capabilities of the egos of the founders. Yes.

A (37:38)

What do you mean by that?

B (37:39)

When I say that is founders, when they raise a certain amount of money, their heads get big, they get their 50 minutes of fame and they think, oh, I made it. But to me, that's just the first step. You got to keep going. But many of these founders that I've invested in, they had the egos. They didn't have egos before, but once they got money, it changed them and they became bad operators. They weren't genuine with what they actually say they're going to do. Right. So I, I think that that is one of the issues I've seen on how many of these startups fail is the egos of the founders or the executives. They won't listen anymore. They don't care about their shareholders, what they say, they just going to do whatever they want to do. And some of them even commit fraud. Some of them buy cars for themselves, do things. I mean, this is how it works, right? Like, if your intentions aren't good from inception, it's never going to be good.

A (38:45)

What else do you look for in founders?

B (38:48)

I look for integrity. Their story too is important about their life, I would say, you know, and it's not even about track record, it's more about their integrity and what they've gone through like, like myself. Right. And who surrounds them too. Like talking to some of their other executives, if they're like buddy buddies and, you know, they don't really care how you feel in the future. Like you could sense these things. And this is where I, I guess I have a good knack for that. I have a good knack with meeting someone in the first five minutes. I could tell who they are. I mean, I could tell from their voice. You know, when you meet people and you sense like they're fake. Right. I could sense that. And I lose interest really fast with people like that. But you could sense these things. You could ask certain questions and, you know, you've been part of some agencies that interrogate things, right? So these subtle type of things, like, oh, oh, you said that you raised a hundred grand and you put 50. But now I, but I realize you didn't put that money in. So, you know, these little clues like you, you, you'll you'll just talk to them over dinner or a drink, and they'll, they'll, they won't connect. Right. These certain little lines they say to you in the beginning won't connect the second or third time you meet them. Gotcha. So Founders is integrity, egos. Right. You gotta stay humble, even if you raise a lot of money or do things. And I think that's why I've been successful, is because I say what I'm gonna do. And also, I'm a genuine person. I'm probably a guy where, if we do a handshake deal, I honor that deal. Right. Like that. There's very few people, I think, in this world that would do that these days. Like, everyone cares about themselves. Yeah. And I care more about the longer term than the short term.

A (41:02)

Like a long play.

B (41:03)

Yes. I'm in it for the long haul.

A (41:05)

Nice.

B (41:05)

And this is where also, you know, transitioning into nano, we could, we could talk about that if you want. Right?

A (41:12)

Yeah, I absolutely want to talk about that. I mean, the number one IPO of 2024. Yes. We're talking about would.

B (41:18)

Yeah. And I'll tell you a little bit about that too. So, you know, let's. I don't blame a lot of the people who bet against nano, because if you look at it from their perspective, you have this big Asian guy from New York City public school kid never took a company public, like from inception. And out of nowhere, he's building nuclear reactors. Impossible. So what happened is a ton of hedge funds bet against us. And they said, no way this is happening. But they don't understand my history. They don't understand I came from nothing. So I have nothing to lose. I have something to prove. I have a legacy to build. My CEO, who I recruited, he went to the top boarding school in the uk. He was poor. How did he get there? He wrote his own essay to get it. His IQ was off the charts. He's a nuclear physicist, engineer, worked in nuclear subs, Minister of Defense, worked at Rolls Royce. So he has everything. But they bet against us because they're like, this is not possible. These guys are going to do this. But they don't understand that we work till 4am in the morning while they're all asleep. I would say we're grinding. We're cut from the same cloth. We're going to battle. We're warriors. And they underestimated nano. And I think what happened is they bet against us and our stock ran, and I think we were up like 6, 700%. We were the number one IPO performer in America, and we shocked the world. And. And not only that, like, all these institutional guys, money banks, they started looking at us different. They're like, wait. The people joining them and the things they're doing, there's something here. Because why would these former US national leaders be joining Jay and James, right? And how's this possible? Like, how are these generals joining the. These guys? Like, who are they? It's because when I meet them, I could do a handshake and I honor my word and I've delivered. So that. That is kind of what I'm built about. And even my CEO, when I recruited him, he was. He told me I was crazy. He said, you know, I changed countries and industries and you, you're bringing me back into nuclear. He's like, there's no money in nuclear. And I said, no, I think, you know, there's a certain area, nuclear microreactors, which is categorized as 20 megawatts or less. There's no commercial micro reactor in the world. So if we able to jump in, we could make some noise there. And you know, what I realized about nuclear physicists and engineers is they're almost like doctors, where if there's a dying person in front of them, they're going to help them, but their curiosity of building something is what drives them. So he naturally said, okay, I'll take this leap of faith with you. And ever since then, he's like, thank you. You changed my life. And you were right. I didn't see something that you saw. But what I saw at the time is I saw solar and wind, especially many stocks, they were tapering off. They were already really high. Government subsidies have boosted them. And, you know, all these countries were talking about net zero goals by 2035, 2040. How are you going to get there without nuclear? That was my thesis. I was like, how? I don't get how all these countries are going to reach these net zero goals and decarbonize their countries without nuclear. And then this is where, kind of the aha moment when I brought in my number two, we said, this is where we're going to focus on. And then I could tell you what happened next.

A (45:50)

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B (47:34)

This is propaganda as a weapon.

A (47:37)

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B (47:39)

It's essential for the experiment that you continue.

A (47:42)

Hosted by Sean Ryan. They're called Psyops. Is now available to you for free. There's no question that it is mind control. Hear from whistleblowers.

B (47:53)

Why have I got a letter from the CIA?

A (47:55)

Shocking insights from experts. If you've ever wondered who's really pulling the strings, it's time to time to find out. Target Intelligence Psyop an ironclad original. Hosted by Sean Ryan. Listen today, wherever you get your podcasts or watch the enhanced version on YouTube at, this is ironclad. Real quick, before we go into what happened next, I'm just. I mean, so you must have made a substantial amount of money through your. I mean, were you with a VC firm or were you private?

B (48:37)

No, I was just by myself. Yeah. I mean, I was able to. What I was really good at is picking trends in the future. So one trend I was very heavily involved was. Was cannabis. The rise of cannabis. Right. In New York City, every corner has like a cannabis store now, but back then, everything's illegal. So what happened here was in Canada, there was a tremendous amount of companies that were going public up in Canada, and I invested in many of those companies that were, you know, pre IPO or private companies. So I had that knack, I would say, of predicting that as well. And then, and then in the meantime I was investing into other companies, biotechs. But once again many of them failed. But the ones that I picked, like the sector focused ones there were, many of them would succeed. Not all of them, but many of them would succeed. And then for example, gold, when gold was 900 an ounce, I, I, I, I actually liked the price of gold at that time. Now we reached over 4,000 announced. But I, I remember I was in London and I was with a hedge fund buddy of mine and we were in the richest area of London, which is called Mayfair. And I was like, I really like it, but I'm tired of writing a check to these companies and not knowing and then that the executives can't execute and operate. So I was able to convince him to put a, structure a deal together. He was able to find an asset up in Canada. We raised money and took it public and it was called Mayfair Gold. So I think right now it's still worth 300 something million. We've raised over 100 something million. Oh shit. And there's been a tremendous amount of interest now in that, you know, so I've always had a knack for picking, I would say sectors. But when I turned 40 and this whole nuclear thing, like I had this feeling about nuclear. I said, you know what, I'm tired of writing checks to people. I'm going to invest in myself. And when I used to go with some of these company executives to, they call it non deal road shows or deal road shows, meaning they're raising capital or they're marketing their company. I was never impressed by these guys. I would go, and they'll raise all this money and I'm like, that's it, like this is what I'm up against. And I said, I'm going to build, I think I could build the company better than these guys. And you know, my thesis was right, but it takes a lot of work, it takes a lot of human capital connection. Like for instance, let's go back to Nano. You know, I looked up which universities in the world are top in nuclear engineering. And I flew to UC Berkeley and I met with the chair of the department at his favorite cafe on campus. And I said, you know, I want to build a micro reactor and I'll pay you for it, but you know, you just have to believe in, in me and join me. And I was able to sell him on this idea. And because he's so, like I said, nuclear engineers are so inquisitive. They're like, okay, we'll see we'll see what you could do. Right. So I was able to bring the chair of that department on. Then I said, okay. With my capital markets background, I said, you know, you see a lot of these biotech companies, they have one drug and if they don't make it to the FDA approval, it tanks the whole company. So I wanted to diversify or hedge myself. So I went to Cambridge in the UK and I met the chair of that department and I said, hey, I want to build a micro reactor. I want to hire you two different designs which will be hedged in case something happens, one or the other doesn't succeed. Right. So we put world class technical teams together and then I was able to raise the seed capital from the former C level executives of ups, the largest transportation company in the world. And I said, look, we want to make nuclear scalable, transportable. And they said, we know transport, but they knew nothing about nuclear. So what, what they did is they went to Morgan Stanley and they talked to their energy desks and they said to Morgan, tell us everything about nuclear, small nuclear, what do you like about it? And they basically helped us. They said, we're bullish on nuclear, we see great things for it coming and small nuclear is rising, there's a lot of buzz about it. So I was able to now get my seed money to pay these world class technical guys to start designing and structuring and developing the micro reactor designs. Right. So that's how I was able to get these world class people. But once again it took a lot of my, I would say human capital convincing. And I think these days what I did, people are copying now too. So I see a lot of now new nanos popping up all over the place. Like every single week there's like a new nano. Right.

A (54:48)

So were you the first one in the space?

B (54:50)

We were the first one to be publicly listed.

A (54:53)

Okay.

B (54:54)

So microreactors have been around for decades, but we're looking to commercialize it. Right. Like remember, there's no commercialized micro reactor in the world. So that was a new frontier. And so we were the first publicly company to be listed as a vertically integrated micro reactor.

A (55:15)

Okay. Okay what? I mean, what. So we kind of, you know, you talked about net zero and renewables and green energy and all that kind of stuff. But what got your interest specifically in microreactors?

B (55:31)

Yeah, so number one for the business side was there was no commercial microreactor. Number two was there's a lot of historic data around different types of microreactors. And then three, my CEO had A lot of connections also with his previous, like nuclear kind of networks about that. So we decided to focus on that because the use cases are way different than civil nuclear reactors, right. If you're able to transport and scale nuclear, think about island communities, right? Northern communities in Canada that run on diesel. So essentially replacing diesel generators with consistent baseload energy. Think of natural disaster reliefs, being able to bring it in. Think about military deployment, right? If you think about what's happening these days, especially in Russia and the Ukraine, it's a new frontier. You have drones fighting and how are drones powered? Right? So energy is the X factor these days, right. And then you see Russia right now hitting all the energy systems in Ukraine, right. If you're able to bring a transportable microreactor, you have energy in different locations. So this helps democratize energy across the world, but also it helps lift humanity. So if you think about Africa, Africa was a use case for us. The whole continent has no national grid, right? So you have a lot of these remote communities, right? But if you think about uplifting humanity there, there's certain areas that have no hospitals. You know, you could bring in a micro reactor and now you have desalination. You, you could build hospitals, you could. There's so much you could do. Water. Water, right. So all of this is an X factor. And this was the thesis too. Besides the net zero goals of all these countries is lifting up humanity, being able to bring energy to the front lines of different situations. Like right now, the army has a massive program, they're launching a whole micro reactor program, funding that, right? So the world is changing, military is changing. Nano this year also won a direct to phase two award with the closest to joint military base in D.C. and they want to be able to have energy off grid, so in case something happens. So they're looking at our, we call it Kronos mmr, which is micromodular reactor. And we're doing a feasibility study there now, which we won that award. And we're looking at certain areas on the base where we could install that for them. Right. And, and you know, they're very excited about this. We're very excited about this. But that is going to be a use case for us for the military aspect as well. Wow.

A (59:00)

I mean, did the, did the AI race or any of that, you know, kind of stuff?

B (59:06)

Oh, yeah, no.

A (59:07)

I mean, put an impact into your position as well?

B (59:10)

Yes. I mean, we didn't know this was all going to transpire like this with AI data centers and all the big tech companies. Pouring in.

A (59:19)

You didn't know this back then.

B (59:20)

I mean, so this is.

A (59:22)

Holy shit.

B (59:23)

This was just. Yeah, this was just a perfect storm. This is a rare situation where, you know, you have government backing everything. You have the giant tech companies pouring in because the AI in data centers. And then you have now also a new generation of technology that's, come on, that's walk away safe, that can never explode. So it's just this marriage of this opportunity and time, right? It's just a rare situation. And once again, this is where the Matrix happens. And I believe there's a higher power pushing nano too. And what I mean by that is there's certain things that it's almost like no coincidence that happens while I was building nano. For instance, my last name is Yu, and you know, I, I built Nano on my. In my last office on the 38th floor. If you put that together, U38, or as commonly known as U308, which is uranium, okay, which is, you know, the, the fuel for, for these reactors, right? And then, and then when we go public, our stock, you know, we did a IPO at $4 a share. Our stock goes from 4 to $38. So this 38 number has been following me. And then, and if you know Chinese culture, we like eights, right? Eights. Eights, right. And so 38's been following me. And then Nano was able to acquire, out of bankruptcy, a leading microreactor technology that went bankrupt. It didn't go bankrupt because of the technology, it went bankrupt because the biggest funder passed away. And he was a former CIA guy, his name was Richard Helms, I believe. And I don't know where he got the money, but he funded that company like 130, something, million dollars. And he passed away. And his family, I believe they didn't care about nuclear. So it was an opportunity for us. Now we came in, bought that technology and it leapfrogged Nano. Now to becoming one of the leaders, if not the leader in microreactor technology in the world. And it came with, guess what? 38. Issued and pending patents.

A (62:04)

Are you serious?

B (62:07)

This is what I'm saying. There's just been so many crazy things that happened that it's unbelievable. And now. So when people attack us early on and we were the number one IPO performer, I just put my head down and work because I know it's going to work out itself for some reason. Like, it's so crazy. There's just been so many things that it's just unbelievable. Let me add that movie Oppenheimer you know, it came out, I think it won a ton of awards. I don't know if you watched this, but this is another goosebump moment for me. I was watching it and Oppenheimer, you know, he helped build the first atomic bomb, right? Where did he recruit his scientists from UC Berkeley and Cambridge. It gave me goosebumps. I was like, get the fuck out of here. Like, Oppenheimer did this. I didn't even know, I knew nothing about. I don't even read about Oppenheimer. Like, I just did things myself, right? So, so these are the little things that are like so freaky. I'm just like, it's almost unbelievable. And then what's unbelievable is, you know, within a year and a half, we raised, since inception, over $600 million. I mean, we go from an unnamed group of guys and company, like they're not real, they're not doing this, to now being one of the leaders and now having the money to make this happen. It's not about if we're building it, it's about when. Now, right? So we shocked the world and many of these nuclear guys are now looking at us different because they're like, wow, nano's a real player now. And not only that, once again, we recruited world class technical teams, but also former US national leaders. Like our chair of our advisory board is Rick Perry, right? Former Secretary of Energy under the last Trump administration. And then I hired the former CFO of the Department of Energy. And then I brought in a four star General Wesley Clark, former supreme ally commander of NATO forces. Right. And then I brought in General Terry Rubling. He was head of the Marines in the Asian Pacific. And apparently he is the real life top gun, not Tom Cruise. Okay. So, you know, we brought so many high level people to the table and everyone's just like in, in awe. And they're shocked because we came in and I felt confident guiding the company post ipo because we have that grit, we just have that warrior spirit. And I think it's from the history and the upbringing I had. I mean, it's just an all in type of mentality, right? I grew up with nothing like, like, what are you, what are you doing against. This means nothing to me. I'm just going to put my head down and build. Right.

A (65:25)

Damn, that is fucking impressive, man. Congratulations.

B (65:31)

Thank you. Wow.

A (65:33)

Are you guys talking about sending some of these mini reactors up to space too?

B (65:39)

Oh, yeah. I mean, that's part of, you know, the whole type of new frontier, right? You know, I think, I think with, with SpaceX and with all these, you know, rocket companies going into space and raising tons of billions of dollars as well. One of the issues is energy. Right. Like if you're able to bring a scalable nuclear reactor and a transportable one to let's say the moon. Right. And that's one of the mandates too, I think under this administration. They announced recently they want to put a reactor on the moon. They want to be the first country to do that. I mean, you're going against Russia and China, right? So they're trying to. They announced, they want to focus on that. And our reactor design is perfectly for that. We have a design, we call it Loki, that could go up there and be on the boom.

A (66:41)

How many different reactors do you have?

B (66:43)

So we have a portfolio reactors, I call it, I would say large, medium and small, but the large still being small. Okay. So our large one is called chronos. It's a 15 megawatt electric output and 45 megawatt thermal. And then we have.

A (67:03)

What does that mean?

B (67:04)

That means it could power 15 megawatt electric. I would say it could power maybe 15,000 homes. Okay, right. And then Loki is between 1 to 5 megawatts. And then we have our Zeus reactor which was developed by the University of Illinois professors that I recruited. And that design is, to me it's probably the most simplest design in the world. And that is going to be under 1 megawatt. So that, that is used for. The military is really interested in that because that could be deployed in the front line to power the drones, to move the camps, the military bases. Right. So yeah, we have a portfolio and they're all, I would say, called high gas temperature reactors. And so we keep the same type of designs and we kind of flow it down. And what that means is we also use that Triso fuel. So Triso fuel, actually the government support billions of dollars into R and D into it. So many of these companies now that are developing microreactors or SMRs or small modular reactors, they're all using that type of same combination like high gas temperature reactor with TRISO because it makes the most sense. And it seems like many of these other larger companies are also doing that as well. And remember Triso, it's coated with pretty much tank armor. It can never explode, it just passively cools. Right. If anything happens, there's an auto shutdown, you shoot a rocket at it, the field doesn't explode again, it could crack. But they never chemically kind of interact with each other. And that's why we call it walk away safe. So when we acquired the technology from bankruptcy, it came with two demonstration sites. One partnered with the University of Illinois. We reestablished that and recently we also broke ground there. We had a ceremony with the university and they're very happy that we're bringing this project back to life. So we broke ground and we're planning to submit a construction application with the Nuclear regulatory commission in Q1 of 2026. Wow. Yeah. So what that means is hopefully within a year, a year and a half, what will be able to pour concrete and steel and start building the reactor. And the reactor is buried on campus. And like I said, right across the street from the reactor is dorm rooms. So this is why we call it walkaways. And you think that university would allow that situation to happen if they didn't know from their experts that this is actually safe?

A (70:09)

Yeah.

B (70:10)

Right. So this is a whole new world, a whole new nuclear technology and people have to kind of, you know, rewire their minds about nuclear now.

A (70:22)

I mean, what do you think? What do you think that unleashing nuclear. What's going to happen? What are we going to hit a golden age? Because everybody. I've talked. You're not the only nuclear guy I've talked to. Everybody's gung ho about it.

B (70:36)

Yeah.

A (70:36)

And you know, and everybody's super gung ho about it. Seems like this administration's getting rid of a lot of the red tape that has been holding progress in this sector back for. For long fucking time.

B (70:51)

Yes.

A (70:51)

You know, so what I mean, I guess, first question, I mean, do you. Are you. Obviously, obviously you wouldn't be in it if you didn't think the red tape was disappearing. So what, I mean, what does this unleash? What is going to change in everyday Americans lives?

B (71:11)

I think you have to look at the whole kind of supply chain of things, right? You have now AI and data centers being built. That's going to take years, you know, it's not going to be built overnight. And these are massive infrastructures. Right. Like Amazon's pouring tens of billions of dollars into this meta Google, you know, Oracle, like a lot of these players are looking at nuclear as an option. And Nvidia with Jensen Huang, he recently said also that a lot of these small reactors are going to come online with these data centers. Right. So let's look at that whole kind of cycle you have. Energy is the X factor, right. It is the bottleneck right now. So with, with these small reactors you're able to now create all this data centers And AI or be a part of the situation, right? But you're able to do that. How is it going to impact, how's AI? We hearing it every day, how's AI going to impact our lives? So you need the energy to create the AI, right? In order to deliver it and change our lives. So you have this kind of whole cycle here. But once again the X factor is energy. So if you're able to create scalable factory fabricated situation where you can mass produce nuclear, you have that baseload energy, it's carbon free and then you could deploy it off grid, right. So you don't have that burden on the grid anymore, right. You could, you want to build a data center, bring it anywhere. I recently came back from speaking at the largest, largest energy conference in, in the UAE in Abu Dhabi. I was approached by a company wanting to build data centers in the desert. How are you going to do that? Only way to do that is with nuclear, right? So that is how crazy things are moving and the world is catching on to this, right? You have now the Middle east very interested in this because they know oil is finite, right? If they want to, let's say they want their hands around energy in the future you're going to have to invest in nuclear. So there is a lot of interest from the Middle east right now with small reactors. The UAE just built, I believe, five of them. So nuclear reactors, right. So they're all coming online too and they're all kind of changing their mindset. Like we can't just focus on oil anymore. Wow.

A (74:08)

The Middle east is.

B (74:09)

Yeah.

A (74:09)

Is wow.

B (74:11)

Yeah.

A (74:11)

I mean, what about, I mean, so I know, you know, an abundance of energy will jet launch artificial intelligence, but what about production costs, transportation costs? You know, we were talking about, you know, space, all that kind of shit. I mean what, what is a numbers guy, Wall street guy? You know, I mean you, you would have a lot more insight than I would, but I would. I mean if Unnuclear is truly unleashed and we have an overabundance of energy, I mean I would, it is my understanding that would throw us into some type of a golden age.

B (74:48)

Yeah, great, great point there. I think this is why microreactors are very important. Because let's say with our Kronos mmr, every piece of it is modularized so we could produce this in a factory, right? And, and it's, and it adheres to road weight limits, right? Every piece of it. And the biggest part is vessels in nuclear reactors. That's the largest piece we could, we're able to design this and mass produce this in a factory, kind of like the gigawatt factory with Tesla. Right. Like that is the mindset you need in order to get that golden age of nuclear. Because some of these other small reactors are still really big. Big. Right. Where, where you can't just mass produce every single piece. Got you. But with a micro reactor you're able to do that and you're able to transport it. And with our Kronos, it's buried, so the surface of it will be a certain finite amount. And then on the bottom we're able to connect the reactors almost like Lego blocks. Right. Wow. Boom, boom. 15 megawatt. So we can actually scale to 1 gigawatt if we wanted to. And right now there's a tremendous amount of interest from AI data centers and large infrastructure companies to partner with us to co locate some of that with our design. Right. And also the, the resilient part of it is if one reactor dies and you have multiple, those keep going so you never lose energy. Wow. Right. So this is, this is blowing people's minds because now. And this is also great for the military as well. Right. If you get hit by a missile or something and it takes out one of our reactors, but you have mult the other ones are running still. So you're never going to lose energy. Right. So and this is what you need with a lot of these data centers because you can't have any downtime like that. Right. So a lot of them are looking to co locate and this is why, you know, you have the big tech companies investing now and partnering with a lot of these companies. Right. Interesting. Yeah, interesting.

A (77:16)

Well, Jay, let's take a quick break.

B (77:18)

Sure. Yeah. And no problem.

A (77:20)

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B (81:00)

Yeah, so I think why I'm almost drooling at this is because, you know, once again, I kind of saw this, you know, in the past. But okay, everyone right now is building these glorious reactors. So to me, everyone has a Ferrari. They have no gas for the Ferrari. And this is where it lists, kind of comes in here. Lis Actually stands for laser Isotope separation technologies. That's why we named it LIS Technologies. And in the very beginning I wanted this technology in nano, but because it poses a proliferation and national security risk, we have to separate the companies. But in reality, we just wanted the company in nano. Every management figure in in lists has to get a Q clearance, for example. And the reasoning for this is when you're, we're dealing with enrichment and what is enrichment? Okay, so I'll take you through kind of the cycle of the fuel. So you take uranium or, or yellow cake, which you mine, and you have to convert it into UF6, which is the gas. And then this is where enrichment comes in. The world currently uses centrifuges and this is why Putin, he controls about, I believe, 40% of the world's enrichment. So that means he has a ton of centrifuges, the U.S. you know, because the, the nuclear infrastructure here essentially has been atrophied and we were the largest exporter of nuclear services and fields back then. We're the now the biggest importer. Right, because the US didn't invest into this in so many decades. So now with the nuclear renaissance happening, you have to build back the actual infrastructure to support these reactors. Right. And we don't have that yet. We're building there, but we don't have that yet. So when I was looking at building nano, I said, okay, one of the issues is going to be fuel and the enrichment side. So centrifuges is the second generation of enrichment. The first generation is gas diffusion, the second is centrifuges, and the third, or the holy grail I call it, is laser uranium enrichment. Okay. And what that means is you're able to take a laser and excite to the isotope level to for enrichment. Right. So for us, let's break this down. Civil nuclear reactors, you use 5% fuel up to 5% enrichment of the fuel of, okay. Small nano reactors go up to 10% and SMRs also with other microact go up to 20% and that's called Halu, H A L E U high assay, low enriched uranium, that's up to 20%. LEU is up to 5% low enriched uranium. And then when you go beyond that is weapons grade and is then considered heu or high enriched uranium, which is used for, guess what? Submarines, aircraft carriers and nuclear bombs. Right, interesting. So this is why we have to move list out. It's because it poses a national security risk because technically we could keep going to that 99%. We're not looking to do that, we're looking for only civil use of this, meaning the LEU and the HAILU percent up to 20%. So essentially, in a single stage of the laser process, we could enrich to 5% in two stages, up to 10% of Hailu and then we could keep going. Right. So what happened recently is Israel and the US Bombed Iran. Remember? What were they doing? Enriching, because the US and Israel's scared they're going to enrich past the 20% and they're going to keep going. Right? So this is the same type of security profile List is going to have. You know, what I did with List is early on, I engaged all the regulatory bodies in the US and said, look, it's me, J. U from Nano. I'm not some other guy who didn't grow up in New York City. It's just me. I want to build this company and I'm willing to hand you the keys to the laser room or whatever we're doing. We just want to build the technology. And I truly believe we'll be able to do this in a way where we could scale it commercially, because that's been kind of the issue in the world is it could work in a lab, but the scalability of these lasers and for this enrichment no one's really done before. So the history of LIS is also kind of crazy. It could be made into a movie. So list the origin of this is Dr. Jeff Urins. He's 94 years old now. He actually drives a car still. And I told him, don't drive, just take an Uber. But he doesn't even know how to use it. Get Uber, you know, so he's 94 and he has some freaky genetics and, and DNA. But his story dates back to World War II. He's Dutch, but he was put in a to a concentration camp in Indonesia. And between 10 to 12 years old, he had to serve hard labor like he thought he was going to die. What happened next is the bomb dropped and it ended the war. And what it did to that little kid is he dedicated himself to learning everything about the atom. So then guess where he went? UC Berkeley to get his PhD. So it's almost like full circle again. UC Berkeley. And now think of Back to the Future. You know, the mad scientist in his garage building the car. Right? That's what Jeff Erkins did. He built a whole test loop of the laser in his garage. And the craziest thing is the US government didn't stop him. So he was technically enriching small amounts of this in his garage. And there will be other nuclear experts that I've encountered that went to his garage and said I couldn't believe the government's allowing him to do this. But also the damn thing worked. So what happened next is there was a big company up in Canada, it's called Cameco, they're publicly listed as well. I think they're like 30, $40 billion company. They actually funded his technology up in Canada. And this was the late 80s and early 90s. And then what happened next is for them to fund the next phase of this was going to cost a lot of money. And then Russia, the Iron Curtain fell. They had to support their economy by selling cheap enriched uranium to the world. So they decided not to continue with advancing his laser technology. So he took his lasers, all his paperwork, and put it in storage in UC Irvine, California. We took it out of storage and LIS was created. It is the only US origin and patented technology. So this is a made in America technology. And to me it's a critical technology. It's the critical technology because once again, it could provide the enrichment technology for the whole fuel cycle, which is needed drastically here in the US So that's one of the bottlenecks, which is the fuel. Sigh. So this is why LIS with nano is vertically integrated. And this separates us from all the other reactor companies. And so having our own fuel at a cheaper cost than anyone else separates us. But also it can potentially, like I said, help, you know, help create fuel for aircraft carriers, submarines. We're not looking to do that. But if the government one day wants to buy us out or invest into that or we make an exception, then that could happen. Right. So if you're able to now make it cheaper, the enrichment than any other centrifuge technology in the world, or make it essentially obsolete, then Russia is going to have a problem with the US China is building more reactors right now than the whole world put together.

A (90:18)

Are you serious?

B (90:19)

Yes. So this is why national security, energy is national security. China's building more reactors than the whole world put together. And this is why the US and I, I believe the Trump administration is, is. Huh.

A (90:37)

How long have they been doing that?

B (90:40)

I would say this happened probably the last decade. I would say the last. They've been turning the corner because of the rise in technology and, and the digital side in China, they're now focused on energy. They see that as a bottle. Remember, the other issue recently was the critical minerals. Right. I believe the administration got really mad because China was Restricting some of the exports of the critical minerals to the US So now the US is investing directly in, into these companies. Right. Because those critical minerals are used for armor, for military use. So once again it poses a national security risk if we don't have critical minerals and critical technologies like lists to actually advance.

A (91:36)

Do you have any idea how far behind we are from.

B (91:41)

Well, from China? I mean, this is why there's a big push for small reactors and companies like nano to help mass produce this in the future. Right? They are. The current administration's also bringing back online a lot of these older reactors and kind of modernizing them as well. They're pouring billions of dollars into larger projects as well. So how much is still not going to be enough. So we need to continue to pour more funding and also remove the bureaucracy. And that's another area where the executive orders recently helped push that. It reduces timelines of the regulatory aspects. So we are moving in the right direction. There's a tremendous amount of momentum. But China's unleashing their energy through nuclear and we need a follow.

A (92:42)

Are you hopeful? You gotta be hopeful.

B (92:44)

Yeah, I'm very hopeful. I mean this is why, you know, with List and Nano we're very much a part of the build back of the U.S. infrastructure in nuclear and the capabilities of the new technologies in the future. So this is why we're working with military here in the US because we see this as an issue in the future. Right. Having energy security sovereignty is a big issue in the US and we need to be a part of that.

A (93:17)

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A (94:02)

And you're doing this LIS is going to be headquartered right out of Oak Ridge, Tennessee, correct?

B (94:07)

Yes, we're actually bringing back those lasers and modernizing them and then also developing our new next generation of lasers to do the enrichment. So we made Oak Ridge, Tennessee our home, which is also, if you think about it, this is where the first fuel came for the Manhattan Project, which is the first atomic bomb that dropped. So it was almost full circle.

A (94:32)

Yeah.

B (94:32)

So if you think about Jeff Erkins, he's also considered the founding father of laser enrichment. If you think about his life, he almost died in that concentration camp. The field created to save his life was in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Man, that is wild, man. That full circle of his life. He's now bringing back his lasers here to demonstrate that, to create the feel that's needed for us. Right. So once again, it's a freaky story. Also, Lys, our whole executive management team is from asml. ASML also creates these lasers, but they're for semiconductor chips. There will be no AI in the world without asml. And my whole laser executive team is from asml. So if they can't do this, no one can. Okay. They're the most brilliant laser scientists I know. We created what I call that laser tiger team of the best of the best in the US and we're so pumped up, we, we really feel like we're going to make this happen. And if you're able to create fuel cheaper, faster and more energy efficient than Russia or any other country in the world, you know, they're going to be looking at us, we're going to have the edge in the US now. Right. So this is why it's so important to actually back list technologies, because it could be the X factor in the future.

A (96:11)

Where do we get all of our enriched uranium from right now?

B (96:16)

A lot of that.

A (96:17)

Does it come from Russia?

B (96:18)

Yes. We were buying, you know, billions of dollars a year and then, you know, they now have, you know, CERN acts banning that. But with exceptions, you could still technically get it if you need it. Right. I think that's some of the. But eventually they want to never use Russia. Right, But I think you still need that access. But this is why the U.S. recently, you know, created a deal with the U.K. right, to, they call it, I think, the golden Aegis deal or something where, you know, they're looking to now focus on other countries where we could build that feel capability or, or to get that feel from as well. Not just Russia, but Russia once again controls about 40% of the world's storage market.

A (97:11)

Did you just say we're looking at other countries to produce enriched uranium?

B (97:14)

Well, we're looking to get, yeah, get some of that to offset that. To offset Russia. Right. To focus on how we cannot depend on Russia.

A (97:24)

Why, why would we do that when we have lists being built. Right. Why would we even waste our time around with other countries?

B (97:32)

Exactly. And this is why, with lists. Next year's a pivotal moment for us because we're going to showcase that same results that Dr. Jeff Urans produced earlier. And we're going to show in this single stage, we could enrich the LEU two stages, halu. Once we do that, it's going to send shock wa across the world in the US and then once we commercialize it, it's going to be a big plus as well, because commercializing it is saying, now we built the business, we got approval from the regulatory commission. That will take also the same amount of time when all these reactors are built, all these small reactors, which is, I would say early 2000, 30s in or around then. So the timing of this is in the next, you know, five to four years, this is all going to come to life. That's what we, we hope to happen. But we're all in on this. I think, I think with lis, I could become a billionaire. You know, that that is something that we definitely need in the future. And the US should definitely get behind. And we'll be making a lot of noise, I would say, with lists next year, because a lot of the things we're doing now are going to mature next year and people are going to see, hopefully the government backing us and state level, federal level. But we were also selected as one of the six companies, domestic companies, for the LEU acquisition program. So creating fuel for the Future. That's a $3.4 billion over a decade award that goes that the only the six companies could bid for. So we already got some recognition also that the Air Force Innovation Unit also selected us to do some feasibility studies around that as well. So, yeah, it's happening, is happening, but in the next, I would say, year or two, we're really gonna see a big difference. And, and we're gonna reestablish that baseline with lists and with Dr. Jeff Perkins and, and, and the funniest thing I, I want to announce also is like, each, I would say, enrichment project has a name. So what I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back to Lord of the Rings now. We're gonna name our project the Return of the King. Yeah, so we're gonna bring him back. And this is once again a US Origin technology. So this is like we could pound our chest and say, this is made in America. Right?

A (100:22)

Man, that's cool. Yeah, that is cool. Dr. Jeff Perkins. I mean, that sounds like that would be A good interview.

B (100:29)

Yes. Oh, he talks a little slow, but you'll love him.

A (100:34)

Yeah, I'd love to meet him.

B (100:36)

Yeah, you should. He'll talk.

A (100:37)

Sounds like he'll be.

B (100:38)

He wrote his own book, too. It's called the Nuclear Imperative. You could actually buy it from Amazon.

A (100:42)

Right on. Yeah, I want to write that down.

B (100:44)

Yeah. The Nuclear Imperative. Yeah. He wrote this a long time ago, so now everything is full circle for him. And, and he. I. We want to just create his legacy and, and, and, and, you know, even his paperwork, his CAD drawings, they're so old that, you know, when. When paper turns brown, we have thousands of pages. I want to create a museum, you know, one day for him and to showcase that his life work has now changed the world and made also the US stronger than any other nation in the world. I mean, that's incredible.

A (101:23)

That is. Yeah, that is something.

B (101:25)

Yeah.

A (101:27)

Anything else to discuss when it comes to lists?

B (101:31)

No, we're just excited about what's going to come. And, you know, there's tons of interest in this as well, like from investors. You, I think recently, Cathie woods, you know, the famous investor Ark Invest, they wrote an article about US enrichment, and that US enrichment needs to be built back faster. If not, AI's not going to be at the full capacity because you don't have the field to power the reactors. And they listed five companies, and LIS was selected as one of the benefactors. So large investors are even looking at us already because they see the potential here. They see that this is going to be the next generation of technology that changes the world.

A (102:26)

I'm excited for you.

B (102:27)

Thank you.

A (102:28)

I'm real excited for you. What else do you got going on?

B (102:33)

No, those are my two, I would say, babies. And I'm all in on that.

A (102:39)

Well, you got your philanthropy.

B (102:41)

Yes, yes.

A (102:42)

Sounds like that's pretty important, too.

B (102:44)

Yeah, it's very important. So, you know, growing up in New York City, too, as a poor kid, I turned to sports. I played a lot of basketball, football, like, not the real football where you're tackling everyone, but like flag football or. And, you know, I was lucky because I joined organizations that supported me that kind of fostered me and took me to tournaments and paid for my uniforms, and I just want to give that back, kind of like pay it forward. So, you know, I want to, you know, invest into kids and through sports and education. Right. Like teaching them about the real world, but at the same time duplicate what was given to me when I was younger, which is, you know, paying for Tournaments, uniforms. So we have volleyball and basketball for inner city kids right now. And, you know, we hire coaches, we run clinics, and we do. We throw certain events too, to educate people as well. We donate. So, yeah, that's very important to me. Just paying it forward, being blessed and humble about things. And I think that is necessary to add to kind of to the matrix, to add to, to the kind of higher power above. Right? Like you. You give back, you will receive. So. And this is what I live by. And this is why I think people like doing business with me, because I'm a genuine person. I don't look for the easy way out. I'm long term and this is why I want to create a legacy here, right? Like I'm long term in nano, long term, enlist. And I think this is going to help change humanity, help change the world and give necessary energy to humanity across every aspect.

A (104:43)

It's impressive, man. It's impressive.

B (104:46)

Thank you.

A (104:47)

Last question.

B (104:48)

Yes.

A (104:48)

If you could recommend three people to come on this show, who would they be?

B (104:54)

Definitely Dr. Jeff Perkins. Like a movie could be created out of his life. I would also recommend another. My CEO actually, of nano would be great. He has a very unique story as well. And then I would pick one friend of mine who also kind of led the same journey as me, but native New Yorker, nothing was given to him. And he would be able to come on and kind of when I say duplicate what I've done, but he could give you a different perspective in a different topic and category. So I don't want to say his name because then he'll get gassed up right now. He'll get. He'll be like, oh, my God, I could go on his show. So those are the three I would definitely want to come on the show.

A (105:49)

Right on.

B (105:49)

Yeah.

A (105:50)

Well, thank you.

B (105:50)

Yes.

A (105:51)

Well, Jay, love what you're doing, man. Thank you. Thank you for coming to Tennessee and doing this interview. And I hope to see you again. And I wish you the best of luck.

B (106:01)

Thank you so much for having me.

A (106:03)

My pleasure. No matter where you're watching the Sean Ryan show, from, from, if you get anything out of this at all, anything, please like comment and subscribe. And most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you're feeling extra generous, head to Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave us a review.

B (106:41)

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