#283 AJ - Former CIA Chief of Station Breaks Silence on Microwave Weapons

Summary

The Shawn Ryan Show – Episode 283

Guest: AJ, Former CIA Chief of Station
Topic: Breaking Silence on Microwave Weapons/Havana Syndrome
Date: February 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features a rare, in-depth interview with "AJ," a decorated former CIA Chief of Station who is breaking his silence on being the victim of an apparent directed energy (microwave) attack now commonly termed “Havana Syndrome." Shawn Ryan and AJ embark on a candid, emotional, and technically detailed exploration of not only AJ's harrowing personal experience but also the broader coverup, ethics failures, and chilling implications for U.S. national security. AJ describes the weaponization of energy attacks, his injury, the institutional betrayal by U.S. agencies, and calls for accountability and truth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage and AJ’s Background [09:42–13:06]

• Shawn Ryan introduces AJ with extraordinary letters of support from high-ranking intelligence officials and Congressman Rick Crawford.

  • Anonymous official: “The man in front of you is literally the pinnacle. This is the best of the best…” [04:30]
  • Rep. Rick Crawford: “In our continuing investigation, we have found that the intelligence community assessment on AHI is profoundly flawed and fallacious.” [08:15]

• AJ’s background: Naval Academy grad, Marine captain, career CIA ops officer, two-times Chief of Station, fluent in Russian and Czech.

Directed Energy Weapons: History & Soviet/Russian Doctrine [13:06–31:11]

• Historical context: U.S./USSR experiments with microwaves dating back to the 1950s.
  • “1953–1979, Moscow Signal: microwaves aimed at the US Embassy for 25 years, ambassador died.” — Shawn Ryan [13:24]
• Agency lore: The “Great Seal” hidden microphone, radars making WWII soldiers hear clicks (Frey effect), Soviet experiments stopping frog hearts with microwaves.
• Both Russia and China have published doctrinal statements on cognitive/energy weapons (“neurostrike”), explicitly targeting the human nervous system.

Institutional Reluctance and Coverup [33:05–39:42]

• Reluctance to acknowledge: U.S. gov’t continues to deny, minimize, or stall confirmation of directed energy attacks, despite mounting open-source evidence and purchases of such devices.
  • “There’s probably a group of individuals… telling a story, not the story, to protect their equities, protect the institution…to preserve their image.” — AJ [34:04]
• Consequences: Deliberate obfuscation harms national security, hinders medical innovation, and leaves injured personnel abandoned.

The Attack: AJ’s Personal Account [45:00–68:39]

Pre-Attack and Arrival [45:00–50:00]

• AJ is posted to Southeast Asia during COVID, quarantined in temporary lodging.

The Night of the Attack [50:02–55:54]

• First incident:
  • “At 0455 that morning, I woke to a crushing sensation… I heard, and ‘heard’ is not the right word… a sensational sound that shot through my head… like a mechanical slide whistle… ended in a soft pop… overpressure wave shot through my body… I felt thrown to my left… all air forced out, my eyes open.” — AJ [50:25]
  • “It’s like being electrocuted.” — Shawn [52:44]
• Immediate aftermath: Disorientation, loss of balance, confusion, emotional instability, vision and equilibrium severely impaired.
• Blood drawn 8.5 hours post-incident shows peak brain injury biomarkers—key medical data.

Second Night and Parallels [60:15–68:39]

• Second incident: Sensation starts in fingers, chemical burn feeling; hears “big metal hinges” and furniture moving above/behind him in nearly empty hotel during strict COVID lockdown.
• Discovery: A fellow officer had been attacked a week before, with almost identical symptoms. Multiple other U.S. personnel affected.

Confirming It Was a Targeted Attack [79:33–81:21]

• “My instinct… would be this was a very precise, beam precision thing. I think it was very, very precise.” — AJ [80:47]
• Pattern of other survivors: “They felt if they moved a couple feet to either side, they were out of it.” [81:08]

Medical Odyssey and Symptoms [86:43–117:24]

Early Treatment & Cognitive Impairment

• A year+ ordeal seeking medical care, with AJ and his wife forced to coordinate logistics and treatment themselves.
• Cognitive symptoms: “Brain fog. The ability to think, executive function, completely went out the window… It was like my brain was in peanut butter.” [105:25]
• Physical: Loss of balance, extreme exhaustion, vision issues, headaches, night vision loss, autonomic nervous system dysfunction (“POTS”).
• Emotional: “Completely emotionally flat… couldn’t even connect with my wife or my own emotions.” [111:18]
• Medical testing reveals specific, abnormal brain and eye findings, misalignment with official records, and “dysautonomia”—the precise Russian-stated intended application of these weapons. [143:06]

Nontraditional & Alternative Treatments [130:33–138:10]

• Pursued therapies: neurogen brain balancing, equiscope microcurrent, stem cells, frequency-specific treatments.
• Some improvement recorded: notably, after equiscope, “I could recognize faces, a little bit of emotion… it was crazy.” [134:14]
• All treatment out-of-pocket—“Probably spent a third to half my retirement annuity.”

Institutional Betrayal & Coverup [145:25–193:18]

• Bureaucratic malfeasance: AJ’s requests for retirement, benefits, or workers comp repeatedly stonewalled.

  • “We really don’t want to give you benefits because… we’d have to give benefits to anybody that basically walked by the Coke machine and said they felt something.” [148:44]

• Hostility: Investigative/analytical “cell” manages the process, bypassing usual chain of command, threatening AJ and pressuring doctors to alter medical records.

• “Everything for you, not only for you, but for anybody that gets hit with this in the future… they don’t even have an accurate set of data.” — Shawn [179:12]

• Outcomes: AJ forced to accept minimum retirement; junior officers even worse off, essentially “in prison.” Doctors and facilities pressured to ignore or downplay findings; some admit direct fear of agency retaliation.

• Direct admission of deception:

  • “People in this Analytical Cell have said they will willingly lie directly to Congress in order to protect the organization…” — AJ [186:07]
  • “There’s no accountability in this country. Not at that level.” — Shawn [190:15]

The Timeline of U.S. Government Response [200:08–217:43]

• In-depth breakdown of reports from 2020–2026 and the public/private discord within USG.
  • Experts consistently confirm plausibility/mechanism of energy attacks; only the analytical cell at CIA and hand-picked officials continue denials.
  • Evidence of a U.S. undercover purchase (2026) of a pulsed RF backpack-sized device with Russian components—matching known symptoms and effects.
• AJ points out continuity with historical denials—even referencing the coverup of “Moscow Signal” research.

National Security & The Future [217:43–235:36]

• Epitaph:

  • “Weapons are frying our brains. The CIA is lying about it. The CIA told you they would willingly lie to Congress…”
  • “Who are they serving?” — Shawn
  • “Themselves.” — AJ
  • “No one in government is looking out for the people. The mavericks get punished.” [219:54+]

• Institutional failure and the loss of trust:

  • “I would say [the CIA] does have a role to play…but it's being hijacked by a group of people…” — AJ [195:08]

• AJ’s prescription: A call to good people in government to “get off the fence,” pursue truth, and to the survivors—“Don’t give up hope… you are not alone.” [226:44]

End Note: Faith and Meaning in Suffering [227:46–235:36]

• Reflection on trials and suffering:

  • “When you have nothing left to give, give thanks… It came to me: thanks.” — AJ [152:39]

• Biblical themes of hope, gratitude, and unwavering foundation in truth.

  • “The only real truth is in the Bible, and that is it.” — Shawn [230:47]

• AJ closes with prayer for healing and truth.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “This is the best of the best…” (Anonymous intelligence letter) [04:30]
• “AHI [Havana Syndrome attacks] are real. He was injured severely. The system failed him…” (Anonymous letter) [07:00]
• “We must correct the government’s failure and take care of our patriots.” — Rep. Rick Crawford [08:15]
• “My instinct is this was a very precise, beam precision thing.” — AJ [80:47]
• “From the second on, the world has never been the same… It’s like you are neither living or dead.” — AJ [76:36]
• “Completely emotionally flat… I couldn’t even connect with my own wife or emotions.” — AJ [111:18]
• “Institutional betrayal is far worse than anything our adversaries could have done.” — AJ [170:12]
• “People in this Analytical Cell have said they would willingly lie directly to Congress…” — AJ [186:07]
• "There’s no accountability in this country. Not at that level." — Shawn [190:15]
• "The American people should be very upset with what's going on. They demand the best, and they're not getting it." — AJ [218:57]
• “When you have nothing left to give, give thanks.” — AJ [152:39]
• “I think the dark is being allowed to get darker so the light gets brighter.” — AJ [234:50]

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Important Timestamps

• AJ’s background, state letters [04:30–13:06]
• Directed energy weapons history [13:14–31:11]
• Why government covers up the threat [33:05–39:42]
• AJ’s attack: details and symptoms [45:00–68:39]
• Medical journey & persistent symptoms [86:43–117:24]
• Empirical evidence, Russian doctrine links [143:06–144:03]
• Institutional betrayal & administrative coverups [145:25–193:18]
• Up-to-date government response timeline [200:08–217:43]
• Final reflections, faith, and hope [227:46–235:36]

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Flow, Tone & Takeaways

The tone is a combination of technical, methodical intelligence briefing and raw, personal distress/testimony—brutally honest, unflinching, non-histrionic. Shawn is outraged, incredulous; AJ is calm, meticulous, humble, and direct, focusing on facts and hope for fellow victims. The episode is a call for institutional accountability, truth, and humane treatment of U.S. personnel. It closes with a Christian lesson in hope, gratitude, and truth as the last, best anchor in a sea of betrayal.

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For Listeners Seeking Key Segments

• Directed energy weapon history: [13:14]
• The attack/night itself: [50:02]
• Medical findings and challenges: [86:43]
• Russian doctrine: [143:06]
• Evidence of U.S. coverup: [145:25]
• Institutional admissions to lying: [186:07]
• Reflection on truth/faith: [230:47]
• Prayer and final words: [235:42]

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Summary prepared using direct attributions and original language/tone as heard in The Shawn Ryan Show, Episode 283.

Transcript

[AJ]

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[Sean Ryan]

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[AJ]

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[Sean Ryan]

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[AJ]

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[Sean Ryan]

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I can tell you what others who know him have said, and I'm going to let you hear it from their own words because they are in a position to know who AJ Is and how he served our country. I received two letters ahead of this interview. The first came from somebody within the intelligence community who knows AJ Very well. This person asked to remain anonymous for obvious reasons. The second letter came from the Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Congressman Rick Crawford of Arkansas, dated February 13, 2026. I'm going to read both of these to you because I think it sets the stage for everything we're about to talk about. First, the anonymous letter from a senior intelligence professional, Sean Ryan. I hope this finds you well. I'm writing as I have become aware of an interview you are undertaking this coming Tuesday, I will call this man AJ for purposes of this note. While I'm sure you check bona fides before getting to this point, I'm passing this note in support. While I remain anonymous for purposes of this message, I will pass this through an old friend, which I hope will provide clarity on the truthfulness of this message. Feel free to use any portion of this to inform you or your audience on your show. Sean Ryan, I'm writing to provide you some insight into aj. I know him well enough to be concerned he may play down either just how elite he was and remains, or failed to explain just how badly he was injured in the AHI he experienced. It is important for you to know while I didn't have the opportunity to work directly with him in the field, in the decades I've worked in this business intelligence, I can only name a couple of people I have known at the caliber of aj. Your audience needs to understand the man sitting in front of you is literally the pinnacle. This is the best of the best, the highest level of operative the US develops and deploys globally. I am very familiar with his work and performance, and while the full extent of his work will likely never be known, that is okay. This is what he signed up for. I met AJ after he was hit in a dramatic AHI highly consistent with other specific AHI reports I'm aware of. While I will not present sensitive or classified information here, I am personally very confident in my understanding of what happened to him. Some of our mutual colleagues who have worked with him before have described to me a man who had mastered himself in ways of most only dream. From ultramarathons to linguistic and operational skills to academic and intellectual performance, AJ exceeds any standard. I wish I could tell America of his exploits, but let it be known his experience was beyond what the majority of such personnel only dream of doing in their careers. Now let me describe the man I met months after his ahi. I was introduced to a man shuffling towards me while holding the arm of a friend for balance. He looked like a 90 year old man when we spoke. After 15 minutes his eyes began to appear out of sync and a stutter began to present with long pauses between thoughts. After he departed me, a friend of his described to me when he first returned home. He described AJ unable to sit in a room with lights, curled up in a corner of a dark room, having trouble standing at all. AJ's friend looked at me with anger as he questioned where his friend had gone and more importantly, why our employers were not helping him. The injuries were devastating and remain so to him. Some may see him and some others like him and think they don't look so bad. But that hides two important points. His starting point was 200%, so even if he recovers to 30 or 40 average of people, he knows the difference. It's like the best SEAL in the teams. After an Injury being told they're fine because their physical capability is around 30% on a spectrum of average Americans. Second, the man you see is only able to do what he is doing today based on pure tenacity to recover. Doggedly fighting to get better as much as he can and not be a victim. I never thought the day would come when. When he would speak publicly. But now that he has, I pray his appearance speaks to the others out there like him. He was one of the worst and he did not accept where he was and has continued to fight. I wish you both the best in your interview and I hope to watch it. I cannot say enough due to security, but please take away three things. The man in front of you is the real thing. This is not an Internet sensation inflating their past. I never thought anyone would ever know him, but this is the best of the best we have. AHI are real. He was injured severely. The system failed him is demonstrated by the fact he is sitting on your show. No offense, but those like him are never seen or become known. And we all must do better. The ic, particularly the senior leaders who know exactly who he is. One what he has done for this country should take the fact that he has gone public as a clear message. The handling of these events and the impacted people must be corrected immediately. Signed, Anonymous. And lastly, the letter from Representative Rick Crawford. I write with deep gratitude and admiration and recognition of AJ who dedicated over 20 years of distinguished service to our country. It has been my distinct privilege getting to know AJ throughout the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Investigation. Investigation into the U. S. Intelligence community's handling of anonymous health incidents, also known as Havana Syndrome. Throughout this time, I have been continually inspired by AJ's quiet strength and unwavering devotion to his country. Having endured profound hardship, AJ carries the resilience of a survivor. Not with bitterness or pride, but with humility and grace. He is the real deal. In our continuing investigation, we have found that the intelligence community assessment on AHI is profoundly flawed and fallacious. It was developed in a manner entirely inconsistent with analytic integrity standards, failing the brave men and women who have served our country across the globe like aj. In addition to not appropriately informing policymakers on Capitol Hill in the executive Branch, this fundamentally unsound assessment had disastrous impacts on the overall US Government response and impacted the medical care made available for some of our Nation's finest like AJ. While the majority of AJ's service to our nation cannot be revealed publicly, the American people should know that he is one of our best. Very few can match AJ's career and service to us, which prematurely ended after experiencing in ahi. Despite what many think, our nation remains incredibly thankful to those like AJ who walk in the shadows, not seeking fame, but eschewing it to serve. We must correct the government's failure and take care of our patriots. I have the honor of knowing AJ and know that his patriotism is rooted in gratitude, responsibility, and a deep belief in contributing to something greater than ourselves. I continue to pray for the steady healing of AJ and all patriots impacted by ahi. Sincerely, Rick Crawford, Chairman, House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. Please take the time to listen to this episode in full and send it to your representatives in dc. You got any questions?

[AJ]

No. Don't know. What? I don't know. Well, we'll just push on.

[Sean Ryan]

All right.

[AJ]

Looking forward to it.

[Sean Ryan]

Me too. I'm going to. I mean, I want to. I want to cover all this and I want to. I want to try to. I've literally never said this, but I want to try to get through it as fast as possible so that. So you, you know, you're comfortable, but hit everything too.

[AJ]

Yeah, I'll try and, you know, we'll try and get through it and hit the salient points before I turn into a puddle. I should be good for about the three hour mark and then after that it's going to be tough.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay.

[AJ]

I mean, this is important. We'll sold you through it.

[Sean Ryan]

Perfect.

[AJ]

So as long as we take some breaks and apologize in advance for having to do that.

[Sean Ryan]

But yeah, no, no, I usually take one every hour anyway, so.

[AJ]

Oh, that's perfect. That should be good.

[Sean Ryan]

Aj, welcome to the show.

[AJ]

Thanks. Thanks for having me. It's a humbling honor to be here, especially to sit in this chair where so many of your guests have sat before. Just great heroes. So I'll do my best to honor their sacrifice and your show. Thank you.

[Sean Ryan]

Well, thank you for saying that. It's an honor to have you. And so we got connected through mutual friend Brad Geary, former Dev group guy that has been on the show a couple of times and he had brought you up a couple of times in regards to Havana syndrome. And I had covered that early, early on in the podcast and I never really knew what to think of it. And since as the years have gone by, it's gained more and more traction. And then when the Venezuela thing went down and they what they call it the discombobulator or something, and I've been interviewing a lot of tech guys, really have a fascination with this company, Epirus which is doing directed EMP weapons. I just, I realized that this is, this definitely isn't bullshit. And so we, we, we got in touch with you after, after Brad connected. And, and yeah, I'm just, like I said, I'm honored to have you here. So, and to be honest with you, I mean we got, I told you about this upstairs, but I want the audience to know this. So you're a former intel guy at CIA and we had two different people send letters. One came, I don't want to mention anybody's name, but it came from somebody very high up in one of the previous administrations and said that you were very humble and basically the letter explained you are the modern Jason Bourne and what you're saying is not bullshit and that you would dismiss it. But in the letter came in anonymously through that person that was in the admin and then the one that we got from Congress, which I will have read those out loud before, before we start this interview. So thank you for being here.

[AJ]

Oh, thank you. Thank you again.

[Sean Ryan]

But everybody starts off with an introduction here. AJ A United States Naval Academy graduate with a bachelor's in physics, former Marine officer who led marines for five years. Former CIA officer and two time chief of station with experience across war zones, denied areas, austerity environments, traditional and headquarters assignments. Served as chief of station in Southeast Asia where you experience what is referred to publicly is an anonymous, anonymous health incident, AHI or as Havana Syndrome. You describe these events not as a syndrome, but as a deliberate attack involving direct energy weapons causing biological effects, your husband and most importantly, you're a Christian. And so before we move on, I just want to get through a couple of things here. I want to talk about some historical context of directed energy weapons. This isn't new stuff. And if you have, if you want to interject here, please feel free to do so. But in 1953-1979, Moscow signal microwaves aimed at the US embassy for 25 years an ambassador died. Kissinger said in quotes, keep it quiet. Hopkins study said microwaves are safe. Then we go Soviet Russian research Frey effect in the 1960s, Russian labs testing microwaves on humans. In 1976, a DIA report on stopping frog hearts. Do you know about this?

[AJ]

So before we get going, Sean, I forget because of the, you know, the agency affiliation and everything. I did get a lot cleared through them before and they requested I read the statement before we get going just to kind of dissociate me with the government on that. All statement of fact, opinion or analysis expressed are those of the author and do not reflect the official positions or views of the US Government. Nothing in the contents should be construed as asserting or implying U.S. government authentication of information or endorsement of the author's views. So, kind of like you, Sean. I hadn't really heard about any of this either. In fact, I. I don't know when you did the original interview, but I probably didn't see it, probably didn't know anything about it. You know, you hear these rumors about, obviously stuff that goes on regarding the historical aspects. You know, the thing that was always something that we heard about that Great Seal that was given to the ambassador. It was a passive listening device, brilliantly made that the Russians had given as a gift, where they radiated the Great Seal in the Ambassador's office, in the Spaso house in Moscow, and were able to listen to conversations that went on for seven years until the Brits discovered it. Just by accident. They were looking through all the radio waves, probably counterintelligence type of activities, and they heard the conversation in the Ambassador's office over the radio waves. So, you know, we'd heard about that as, you know, kind of lore, agency lore, the Great Seal. And there might have been some things you heard about the Moscow signal, but that was it. You didn't really hear anything about it. And, you know, especially going through the career, you just don't have time to focus on those things. You're busy doing other things, and it's just kind of buried in the bowels of the building. You never get to it or hear about it again. It really wasn't until relatively recently and in preparation for our conversation, that I went back and looked at some of the stuff regarding the Moscow signal and some of the things that went on with that. And it's frighteningly haunting with how much it mirrors what we've recently seen, especially when we talk about Havana and what happened in 2016. So the Moscow signal itself, like you said, ran for 25 years or maybe longer. It was radiating the embassy in Moscow with microwave radiation, unbeknownst to the staff. I don't think the embassy staff was made aware of it until 1976. But during that time, there were two projects that the government did very secretly. Project Bazaar and Project Pandora. Pandora, I think, was the overarching one in which the goal was to study the biological effects that pulsed microwaves had on humans or biological entities. And that microwave energy was non thermal. So that's a very important aspect of this, that it's non thermal. And how do you actually get that aspect of it where it's non thermal without heating tissue, and is it possible to still cause damage without having that thermal aspect of the microwave? So that's what they were studying. In fact, they actually lied to the embassy personnel and drew their blood, saying that they were studying a virus spread. And they took it back to analyze to see what was happening in the blood of the individuals that were being radiated. In Moscow, Project Bazaar looked at animal research. They did that on monkeys, where they radiated the monkeys with the microwaves. And what I found, and all of this is available on the National Security Archives, it's all open source to look at, was that in fact they did find that radiating the monkeys with non thermal microwave energy caused them to lose time, space, ability to function, complete tasks at a certain level. Now they said, well, the level is lower than that at the embassy. So, you know, it's not right. It's fine. It's still lower than our standards. It was 100 times greater than the Russian standards for safety, microwave safety. So there's a lot of contention about whether or not it actually had the effect on the primate research. So what they really wanted to do was to test it on humans and they proposed testing on humans without their consent or knowledge. Thankfully, that didn't actually go through and that was ended. But kind of what had brought it to a head in 76, after three or four presidential administrations had told the Russians to stop this, what kind of brought it to the head was kind of the hero of the story, Ambassador Stossel, who was experiencing symptoms. In fact, he was reportedly having bled out of his eyes after being in his office and being exposed to this radiation. He went back to the administration, especially to Kissinger at the time, and said, enough's enough. We're getting to the point where this situation has become not tenable anymore. We have to tell the staff, the embassy personnel, what's going on about this, about this risk and this threat. Otherwise it had been kept a secret. I think Kissinger reluctantly relented. His argument was that he didn't want people to know about it because that might make the Russians upset that we were belittling them, that we were calling them out, that we were embarrassing them publicly. And that might lead to irritants, especially when they were working on, I think, the Angola crisis at the time and the Salt treaty. So that was why it was basically buried. And after Ambassador Stossel, I think, called over to his counterpart and demanded that it stopped, only then, I think, did it eventually go down to a lower level. And I'M not sure when eventually it did stop. Ambassador Stossel passed away in 1986 from leukemia, as did two prior ambassadors also passing away from leukemia.

[Sean Ryan]

Two prior masters?

[AJ]

That's correct. A number of officers that served there had rare blood disorders. I think James Schumacher, he came forward and wrote some nice pieces regarding how it was like deja vu with Havana syndrome and what had happened to them back then. He developed a very, very rare blood cancer. It was basically a death sentence. But eventually his body recovered. He fought off and got over it, which is a miracle in and of itself that he did that. But it just goes to show that a lot of things happened and the concentration of officers that experienced these health issues was far greater than. Than the average population. A lot of folks, I think, had issues with blood counts and white blood cell counts and things like that. Hence leukemia and those issues as well. So that kind of started, I think, that trend. Then like you had mentioned, in the 70s, there was a university professor from Washington, I think, Dr. Lin, who was studying the Freya fact. The Frey effect is what happens. This actually was experienced by our soldiers in World War II who were very close to the radars. They would hear a clicking and a buzzing in their head and they couldn't figure it out. Well, it turns out that the radars were inducing a sound inside of the head, an acoustic sound, that clicking and the buzzing. So Dr. Lin was studying this in the University of Washington. In fact, he even would experiment on himself to try and experience this. I saw a comment of his where he would try not to turn it up so high so he wouldn't damage his brain. But he was working on this and then found out the Russians were working on this. So he went over to Moscow and saw what they were doing. And the write up, which is once again, I think in the National Security Archives, noted that he saw their laboratories, which were very well equipped, very elaborate, but the experience were a little bit. Experiments were a little more crude and that they would submerge participants up to their necks in salt water and hit them with microwave energy to see what neurological effects it would have on them. And they were very curious what Dr. Lin had to say about that as well. And you mentioned the DIA reports, I think those were in the mid-70s, around 76, that noted that they were aware the Russians were experimenting utilizing microwave energy, but to start stop the hearts of frogs, amphibians, by aiming it specifically at their throats and it would stop their hearts. They also noted in that that it was very. The Russians were very well equipped and moving forwards to weaponizing this in order to disrupt military personnel and diplomats was also in that as well. And in the 80s, I believe they also noted that the Russians actually might be farther ahead than we are in this technology. In the 90s, I believe, once again, according to open source, you saw our research and work on several different projects, weapon systems that were termed hello, Goodbye and good night, basically named for the effects that they would have on the intended target. Disruption, disabling or lethal. It's unknown how effective those were. It's kind of. It's just left at that. I think it'd be very interesting to talk to some of the folks that were involved in those projects. So that was the 90s.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you know any of the folks?

[AJ]

I don't know any of them in the 90s, I think we are. In the 2000s, we started to see kind of the emergence of the active denial system, the L RAD that you see in the news, that utilizes that thermal property of microwave to cause the discomfort and get people off of. Off of the scene, kind of as a crowd dispersal, very much in the open source these days, but that focuses on that thermal aspect, not so much the non thermal. And then I believe we saw also our efforts with project, what was it, Medusa, that was also looking to do the voice to skull kind of technology where you basically use the fray effect to input and implant thoughts in people's heads or sounds in people's heads, voices. That's what they were working on. I believe that was discontinued in 2008 out of concerns that it was causing brain damage and permanent brain damage during this time as well. The Russians, I believe, were probably still continuing their efforts. I believe in 2003 they had a scientist attend the kind of second annual European symposium on non lethal weapons in which he presented research that he was using microwaves to affect the autonomic nervous system, which is extremely, I think, important. And we'll discuss that later on. And then in 2008, we, you know, there was open source that they had passed this technology along to the Chinese, sold it to the Chinese as well, who were, you know, obviously going to work on. On this as well.

[Sean Ryan]

Which is interesting when you mentioned your friend who got zapped.

[AJ]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Taiwan. Yeah.

[AJ]

All. All of the, you know, obviously they're going to. Which was after way after this. Yep.

[Sean Ryan]

What we have here was Russians sold it to China in 2008.

[AJ]

2008. So then fast forward to kind of the more public time with Havana in 2016, where numerous diplomats from China from Canada and ours experienced what, you know, is kind of termed now as the anomalous health incidence or Havana syndrome. And that really kind of brought it, I think, to the public spotlight at that point in time still. I mean, I, I hadn't really heard about that even being part of the organization. It wasn't something you heard. You might have heard that something was going on, but you didn't pay attention to it. So you just kind of drove on with that. And then later we see that the Russians and the Chinese publicly acknowledge that they have been working on these capabilities and that they intended to incorporate them into their military doctrine. The Chinese, I believe, call it the neurostrike weapons, which encompasses all, all different types of aspects that target the mind of an individual. The cognitive aspects, whether that is something like the directed energy, whether that's something like psyops, maybe TikTok, those types of things that influence the mind of the adversary or impact it and disrupt their cognitive ability. That's kind of what they package into the neurostrike weapons. The Russians, I believe they call it the weapons with new physical properties in which they incorporate the directed energy weapons and other asymmetrical capabilities. But they've come out and said that they're working on it, they've developed it and they're incorporating it into their, their doctrine. So I believe that was probably between 22:24 time frame. And then obviously after some of the other things came out, we have National Security Advisor Patrushev from Russia saying that they had identified and neutralized hundreds of foreign spies. And that was in, I believe, an internal magazine for their intelligence services. I haven't seen the complete, you know, context of it. I'd love to see the article in its entirety to make sure that's kind of what he was referring to. But still, it's a very interesting statement for them to make, even if it wasn't intended to go public. So that kind of, I think, brings us up relatively up to speed on some of the historical context. And obviously, you know, whenever there's a new capability, people are going to look at how can you make it to either help people or harm people. So I think that that's. We're just looking at this aspect of that.

[Sean Ryan]

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[AJ]

I think there's probably many reasons kind of for that. Maybe creating a little bit of a perfect storm and maybe we can even look back a little bit at what happened with the Moscow signal and ask, well, why did they cover that up as well? I think that are we dealing with a whole of US government initiative on this? Probably not. I think we're seeing more of a group of individuals that think they might be doing the right thing, whether that be foreign policy wise by not upsetting our adversaries, whether that be protecting the institutions, Whatever their logic is or reasoning behind that.

[Sean Ryan]

How would that protect the institution?

[AJ]

You're right. I think it actually does the exact opposite. I think it, it ruins the institution, it taints, causes mistrust, distrust internally and externally. And I really can't speak to what other motivations they might have on that. But I do believe it's probably a group of individuals that have transcended over the different administrations and we can kind of talk about the way that that went later that are telling A story, not the story, but a story in order to protect their equities, protect, you know, the institution. This is, I think, their, their, their logic on that, from what, I'm not sure. And, and to preserve, I think, their, Their image. I think the, this is not just isolated to our organization. I think we're seeing it probably across USG writ large, especially when we see some of the other issues going on. I think that this is just a symptom of it. There's something larger and a greater issue than just this. This is just a symptom of it. This symptom is unfortunately extremely dangerous as well for the officers we're still sending overseas, both in the agency and military, and very much so for the American people. And I think one of the main reasons that we're kind of chatting about this now is to hopefully move that needle, maybe on that polymarket thing to encourage people to do the right thing, to do the thing that they said they were going to do, to encourage people to get off of the fence and speak truth, because our service members and our agency personnel deserve it and the security of America and our fellow Americans demand it.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, I just don't understand the way you were treated, the way a lot of these people were treated. I mean, we'll get into all this later, but you know that it affected your retirement. It affected everything after the Agency and all these other countries are starting to say stuff about it. In fact, I got an article right here from the Washington Post, and I'll just read the very first paragraph. Working in strict secrecy, a government scientist in Norway built a machine capable of admitting powerful pulses of microwave energy. And in an effort to prove such devices are harmless to humans, in 2024, tested it on himself. He suffered neurological symptoms similar to those of Havana Syndrome. I mean, there's just a lot more research on this stuff or a lot more out there on this stuff than there was even just a couple of years ago. And then like I had mentioned the Venezuela thing. I mean, and you look at a company like EP US and there's, I mean, I'm sure there's a lot more of them. I mean, it's, it is, it's directed, it's directed energy. So why, why, why would we didn't.

[AJ]

We.

[Sean Ryan]

We're not even denying the capability.

[AJ]

I, I think to some regards, we still are. I think we still have documents out there that haven't been retracted that still say this isn't real. And, and, well, maybe we can highlight those a little bit later. But things like this are starting to come out. The Norwegian scientist who did that to himself, unfortunately, the article that came out regarding our procurement of the device with known Russian components, that came out several weeks ago as well. I think we're getting to the point where it's very difficult for people to continue to hold that line, but they still are. They still are holding that line. And the result of it is extremely damaging, not only to, like I said, to the survivors, but to our ability to fall forward on this and come up with our own abilities and capabilities to leapfrog our adversaries, you know, and to develop our own ways of dealing with this threat, you know, both abroad and at home. So I think that, like I said, that it has such a larger implication on national security than just preservation of an organization, that I think we can't let that continue. We have to get the truth out, you know, so we can fall forward on this, so we can develop our own capabilities and protect our interests in the American people, so we can develop new medical procedures to not only maybe help our cohort, but also those that have suffered other TBIs and debilitating injuries and to help once again make the survivors whole, who have been betrayed by their organizations and by the country and have been basically left to die slowly and to acknowledge the sacrifices that families and officers and others have made. So I think coming out with that truth is once again, kind of why we're here.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you. Before we get started, everybody gets a gift. The John Sleet Gummy bears, made in the usa. And one other thing to knock out here is I have a Patreon account. They've been with me since the beginning, before this ever even started. And so I wouldn't be able to sit here with you today if it wasn't for them. So they get the opportunity to ask every single guest a question. And this is from Eric Alger. If Havana Syndrome isn't a weapon, why were intelligence officers the first to get sick?

[AJ]

Why weren't they? Or why were they?

[Sean Ryan]

Why were they?

[AJ]

If it isn't a weapon, why were they? Well, I think. Not sure if I'm going to answer this. This properly, but I think what we see happen is such things are always done in the shadows first, and then we see them eventually make it more into the conventional arena. I mean, take for example, you know, suppressors for your. For your rifle back in World War II. Who had those? Only the special operations, and no one had them. And they were nowhere to be found except for, you know, in the shadows and the secret Groups and now they're everywhere. Right. So I think you see some of these things happening in the shadows first. It's, it's, there's plausible deniability. There are things that we do in the shadows that are never meant to see the light of day and we keep them there. That's how things are handled both in, in positive and negative ways, can be good back channels and, and things as well in the shadows. So to me, it's not surprising that intelligence officers and those around were some of the first ones to be impacted. And, and you know, and honestly, we can go back to the Moscow signal, the embassy people, people there were impacted, all of them were. The people in Havana, all of them were. It was a political move. I think that we might be having some of the specific targeting against certain individuals for strategic means. So I think that's why we see some of the intelligence, certain intelligence officers getting hit.

[Sean Ryan]

Oh, God.

[AJ]

That's my own personal kind of thought on that. So taking that and extrapolating it, my concern is that we will see this go mainstream, that we will see advancements in this where now we're talking about the ability for our adversaries to weaponize this capability in everyday objects. You know, everything's smart now. What happens when we get to the point where they're able to weaponize that and you know, the device that everybody's carrying around in their pocket becomes a directed energy weapon. So that, that I think is also why it's imperative that we get in front of this and tell the truth and embrace it and fall forward.

[Sean Ryan]

That's a scary thought to think about that your phone could be a fucking energy weapon.

[AJ]

Absolutely.

[Sean Ryan]

If it's not already.

[AJ]

Right? That's right. Wow.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow. When did you start thinking about that?

[AJ]

Probably when I started to get some of my faculties back and you just start thinking about what's in the art of the possible. And if I'm thinking about that with a barely functional brain, I know our adversaries are as well. And that's concerning because I, I never want to see this happen to anybody. And we'll get into what that, what that really means later, but it's something that we can't allow it to happen. And the only way to really get in front of it is to stop it.

[Sean Ryan]

If you don't mind, I'm just going to talk about a little bit. The man behind the mission. So I know we have about a three hour window here before things start going downhill, so, so like I said off camera, I want to, I Want to go as fast as possible. But. And that's the reason is is, is so I'm just gonna rattle off a few things here. Naval Academy grad, bachelor's in physics, five years leading Marines, then went to CIA. Full spectrum of clandestine ops, Eastern Europe, two tours include Violent Revolution, Central Asia, dcos, then cos that's deputy Chief of Station and then Chief of Station, HQs Branch Chief, then CoS Southeast Asia, fluent in Russian and Czech core Collector, certified twice selected as Chief of station. Career arc of an elite DO officer. I mean you have an amazing career and I just want to make sure, like I said, we're going to read a couple things off before, before the interview starts, but I just want people to understand the full scope. And so let's move. If you don't have anything to add there, let's move right into the day of the attack in Southeast Asia, the fall of 2021.

[AJ]

Sure. No, I was just very blessed to have opportunities probably shouldn't have been afforded someone from, you know, the Midwest, small town, more pigs and people, you know, I just very blessed to have those opportunities and going to the new location was just another opportunity. Just wonderful. Very excited. One of those places that kind of has it all geopolitical pivot point. Great team, great mission. You know, I was super excited to be with my wife again. We'd kind of been living apart for four years because as mission and, and things dictated so all around was. Was very excited to, to head out there and you know, I remember getting off the plane there and that first breath you ever take, you know, when you get off of, off the plane in that new location, just, you just always remember it and you always look forward to it. You know, you're getting ready and you're like, oh wait, wait for that first breath. What's it going to be like? What's it going to smell like? What's this going to taste like? You know, what is this going to be? And I remember being worried. I was like, oh man, did my headquarters tour ruin me? Am I going to become one of them now? Because this was the first time that I had been back out in the field after the headquarters tour. And that first breath went, it just filled me with just life again. I said, oh man, this is what it's like to be out again. This is great. It didn't corrupt me. I'm back. This is awesome. So during that time was full blown kind of the COVID restriction time. There was only one or two flights in country a month. So we had to go into quarantine, which was awesome. It was two weeks of just sitting out there and hydrating and doing kind of the prison workouts and just reading. So it was great. About a week, I guess, aside for the two days or two times a day testing and then doing the nasal swab five times during that period. Other than that was great. About a week into that, week and a half into that, I was told that my residence wasn't going to be finished. Mine was the only residence that wasn't going to be finished. It wasn't ready for me to move in out of the group of folks that were coming in, which I thought, great. I'm here alone. Other people have families. If anybody's house isn't going to be done, I'm glad it's mine. And they said, well, we got to move you into this new location for maybe about a month. It's kind of a really nice executive suites hotel type of of thing. So finish up quarantine. Went to that hotel. You know, walk in, nurse follows in, and, you know, they hand me key card for the room and they say, oh, here's your key card. It's good for, you know, one use only. And then you're locked in. I said, no, no, I'm done with quarantine. The new, you know, guidance is that I can move about now go to work. I finished that. Here's the letter. As I'm explaining these things, someone comes in from off camera. A different office comes up and says, oh, so sorry. Here's your key card. You're right. Multiple times to come in and out. And I said, oh, okay. They're obviously watching. They're waiting for me off camera. This might be the first little welcome, welcome here. Professional courtesy to see how I kind of handle first things. I actually thought it was touching. I was like, oh, that's nice. They care. They care enough to hassle me a little bit. That's nice. So went up to the room, kind of got settled and was ready to go to the office the next day and went to the office the next day, finished that up, got home or got to the lodging. Remember? Just watching some golf.

[Sean Ryan]

How would they have known it's you?

[AJ]

Oh, I mean, they. They know it's. It's the. They know.

[Sean Ryan]

This is a local hotel?

[AJ]

Yeah, locals. Locals. I mean, the locals own everything. They know it'd be kind of like our FBI.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, I'm just assuming that maybe

[AJ]

like our FBI, you would.

[Sean Ryan]

Are you traveling under true name?

[AJ]

Oh, yes.

[Sean Ryan]

Yes, you are traveling Under True Name.

[AJ]

Yep. They know I'm coming. It's all been ahead. You have to get visas ahead of time. So they know I'm coming. They know who I am. I'm sure they know my past as well.

[Sean Ryan]

Were you traveling under True name in the past?

[AJ]

Yeah. On all the other locations as well? Yes. In every location that you had noted? Yeah. So, yeah, they knew I was.

[Sean Ryan]

Retrospect. Do you think that was a good idea?

[AJ]

Oh, I mean, there's no real other option. That's kind of how we had to do it. In retrospect. Obviously, there are things and there were things that I would recommend we do differently, obviously. So anyways, it's just kind of how things work in that world, in that realm and kind of all of the things that you had mentioned before. So I remember that night I was watching golf and having an orange Fanta, and I don't even like golf, but I was just kind of watching it and admiring how skilled they were. Went to bed, no problems. At 0455 that morning, I woke to a crushing sensation. Like if you were on the, you know, on the bottom of a pile up, like on a dog pile of people on top of you. And I woke up and I just wanted to scream, get off me so I can breathe. And at that moment, I heard, and I heard's not the right word for. Was like a sensational sound that shot through my head. I would say behind my ear, bias biased back that seemed to just shoot through and went inside. It's not, it was not an audible sound. It was a different sound. And it sounded like a mechanical slide whistle. If you, you know, you have the ring in. In in your ears, that kind of ring, sometimes drop that down several octaves and it increased in both pitch and intensity and higher tone or lower tone. It started low and went high. I'll. I'll try and, and, and mimic it. I know I'm sure I won't do it justice, but it was like a. About like that. And then it ended in a soft pop. Like, you know, a high explosive kind of has that low thud, that feeling, that overpressure wave that you get that was all there, but the pop was higher and it felt like it was in the center of my head. And that overpressure wave, the same type of wave that you feel being next to an. He shot through my body from like head to toes. And I felt every single muscle in my body lock up. And I felt like I was thrown to my left. I don't know if my Arms were straight out. It sure felt like they were. And all of the air in my lungs was pushed out kind of with that muscle tension. And my eyes were open.

[Sean Ryan]

It's like being electrocuted.

[AJ]

It was, I mean, obviously it's like nothing I've ever felt in my life before or after. And my eyes are open and I, and I, and I thought, is this one of those sleep paralysis demon? I've never had one of them and that long. Every single muscle then relaxed and I felt like I was falling through the bed and floor. Not falling off the bed, but like through it, Like I was in free fall. And then my phone buzzed. What I think was my phone, I don't know. Something buzzed. I think it was my phone. I thought it was my phone, picked it up. That's when I saw 0455. I don't know what had happened. I was kind of like, what's going on? Instinct training, you know, says what get off the X, right? So moved to the next room and spent what I think was probably about an hour and a half maybe, I don't know, I'm guessing off of the time because I remember the sun coming up, kind of rocking in the chair and just kind of arms in, rocking in the chair, very confused, very anxious, lost all perception of time, space, what was going on. And when the sun came up, I remember thinking, I need to call my wife. You know, she's in a different time zone, so I don't know why I had to wait for the sun to come up. But that was the logic process. I was like, I can call my wife, she can tell me I'm crazy and I can go back to bed. I don't remember much of the conversation, but you know, my wife told me later on kind of what, what that entailed. But it ended with, you better go see the doctor or we're going to have problems. Something that she's never said in our prior 21 years of marriage at that point. So I texted my colleague who was at an emergency meeting that was called the night before and said we got to go and go to the office and see the doctor. So went to the office, saw the doc, he did some of the baseline screening that was for ahis. It was kind of a neck down version of what I have had done, done previously, voluntarily wise for screening purposes and was, was going through it since I'd recently done it. I kind of knew what was going on. But it wasn't until the, the balance portion that I, I thought something might be Wrong. I was falling over, bending over, especially when I closed my eyes like a wet noodle. And I didn't even realize it. I had no idea which way was. Was up. I couldn't tell I was falling. I laughed because it was. It was almost comical. But it wasn't until that point that I thought, well, something might actually be here.

[Sean Ryan]

Equilibrium, is that off?

[AJ]

So I was even writing to the office. I don't think I realized how bad I was. I could not comprehend what was going on. One of the things I noticed right away was I couldn't read a license plate 15 meters away. It was blurred. It was like double. The world seemed to be moving at a rapid pace and I couldn't keep up. I could not process things. But I, you know, up until kind of doing the balance part, I was just.

[Sean Ryan]

Are you saying your thinking appeared to be in slow motion?

[AJ]

It did, but I couldn't even process it. Like the peripheral vision I couldn't even process. Just wouldn't even sink in what was going on in the world around. I just couldn't even process it. So we get through that. They draw blood, go through the process there.

[Sean Ryan]

You're one of the only, you are the only person that has had your blood drawn right after the incident, correct?

[AJ]

I can't speak for everybody else. I think what's interesting with mine, and it goes to some of the empirical data associated with mine, is that the blood that we had drawn was about 8 and a half hours post incident. And apparently there's biomarkers that indicate brain injury. Two specific ones. One I believe is more generic to nerve damage. You get hit with a baseball bat, you're going to have that biomarker in your blood. The other one is very specific to a TBR or traumatic brain injury, something to the brain because it's only found in your cerebral spinal fluid and it only pass that blood brain barrier when there's an assault to the brain. Mine were significantly elevated three times. The one that's only found in the brain was three times the level of previous blood and blood taken post medevac that we'll get to. So mine shows a clear spike after that injury. And according to some of the doctors and those that I've talked with since those biomarkers tend to reach their peak 24 hours post injury and are removed from your body 48 hours after the injury. So very. They're not in your system for very long. And the fact we took it eight and a half hours after means I wasn't even close to peaking Those levels were not even close to spiking. So we don't really know where those are those are at. So after we finish up with the doctor there, I talked to the local kind of US Security folks just to let kind of folks know, don't know what this is. Maybe it was a bad spring roll or something like that, but on the off chance that it wasn't and I was under an attack and like I said, we knew about these things. We were briefed on, on, on, on this stuff. But I didn't know details. I didn't know what symptoms were. I didn't know what, what the attack

[Sean Ryan]

like in country brief or a headquarters brief that's encompasses everybody.

[AJ]

Yeah. All before. Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

So this isn't, this is.

[AJ]

Yeah, back home, you know, was kind of these briefings, but, but it wasn't,

[Sean Ryan]

it wasn't specific to your new location in Southeast Asia.

[AJ]

We didn't know. Or at least I didn't know. I won't speak for everybody. I didn't know what the symptoms were. I didn't know how many people were impacted. I didn't know what it might feel like or what the exposure was. You know, I think I remember being told it was kind of like you're going down the highway at 55 and your windows are down a little bit and you kind of get, get that reverberation. That's the only thing I, I had heard. So this fit. That didn't fit that at all. But something definitely didn't seem right.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, isn't that somewhat of an admission in itself that they're briefing people on a potential microwave weapon, but keeping it vague?

[AJ]

Yeah, I think, you know, looking back, that could be a good part of it. And I think when we look back at some of the timelines, it'll be very more. It'll be interesting kind of when we jump ahead and look at some of the timelines leading up to this that I wasn't aware of because I just focused on the mission and focused on doing what we're supposed to do. So if it was something like that, I, I didn't want to put other Americans at risk. And because it was Covid wise, there's really no other options. So it's like, all right, I'll go back to the same place. Let's, you know, kind of see what happens. 1:38 that next morning, I woke up and was itching my fingers and I had a kind of sensation that kind of went from the wrists to the elbows, almost like a chemical burn that Woke me up and the phone did the exact same thing at 1:38 that morning. So I was like, man, okay, no such thing as a coincidence in our business. Something's going on. Once again, went to the next room and I had enough wherewithal at least to say, let me try and listen and hear and see if there's anything going on. Strange, right. So I just sat there, listened. About 30 minutes later, I heard kind of behind me what sounded like big metal hinges. Hinges scraping like opening. I can't even explain it. It's kind of what was I pictured in my mind were these big kind of metal hinges opening. Like this would have squeak or a squeal. Almost like a scrape.

[Sean Ryan]

Scrape.

[AJ]

Yeah, like a, Like a. A. Almost like a hinge on a suitcase type of. That's what it seemed like.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay.

[AJ]

But big. It wasn't a small hinge. It was like larger aperture opening or closing. And that would have been behind the bedroom. And then above me I heard what sounded like furniture moving. Somebody moving furniture, you know, three feet stopping. Three feet stopping. And this is, you know, two in the morning, right. So what are those sounds doing? And you have to remember that the COVID time, I think the lodging hotel was only at about 20, 25% occupancy. There weren't many people there because the whole country was on lockdown. I didn't see anybody on any of those floors before. So at that point in time, it was like no such thing as coincidence. Got a hold of my colleague again, went into the office and started the process to kind of figure out what was going on. Briefed obviously the local security personnel. And it was decided that it'd be best to medevac me. The doctor said that he'd never seen anybody actually show symptoms. When doing the testing that he saw with me, he noted my eyes actually were having a very difficult heart. A hard time tracking his fingers wouldn't. Would kind of shake. Just horizontally, vertically was okay, but horizontally was. Was off for. For some reason. So he, he recommended we do medevac. So prepared to medevac out of there the day of when we were about. When I was about ready to medevac, the local security comes up and he said, you're never going to believe this. You're not alone. There's another one.

[Sean Ryan]

There's another one.

[AJ]

And I said, oh, oh no. And he's like, it was a week before you. We obviously come in on the same flight, same scenario. He was starting, starting work, another US Personnel, same hotel. We were at different hotels. So his was at a different hotel than I actually had quarantined in. But his was a week prior. What was very interesting is, and this is kind of what the. The local security officer was, was kind of. It was almost, I wouldn't say giddy, but it's like your stories are exactly the same. It's like you've never met. No one knows these things. But you guys have told me the exact same thing. We got a problem. This is real. There's no way. It's impossible that you guys had the same experiences and had never talked to. No one knew about it. His and I won't speak for him as his story to tell but as you my experience was crushing. That sound that went up in frequency followed by complete loss of balance followed by anxiety, confusion and then everything else that followed it. His was he heard what he described as a mixture between a Dyson vacuum cleaner and a jet engine getting ready for takeoff and an increased you turn it on and it winds up thing you were saying and but mix that with a jet engine that, you know, throttle down for takeoff, it winds up. And he said it stopped. And he felt like he was submerged hundreds of feet underwater, that he was being crushed. He jumped off the bed and immediately fell to the floor because he had no balance right to the floor, couldn't just go on boom. He left the room because he had such an anxiety and fear that he felt and dread and he had a hard time going back in that room after it. So those were our, our two kind of experiences that were near identical. And we had never talked, never met. It's very convincing with that. Later on I learned that there were other US personnel impacted as well. And I can't really talk about who they were or the quantities of those individuals. But there were more. Theirs was very different. The local security, U.S. local security personnel actually went and found that in their room where they had these experiences was non sourced ionizing radiation. In other words, there was an ionizing source. There's ionizing radiation in the room. But they couldn't find the source. Which is extremely interesting especially when you look back even in the historical context of. This is not the first time we've seen ionizing radiation in rooms. We saw it way back in the Nixon, Nixon era at Spaso House. Once again in Russia, they found ionizing radiation in Spaso House in Moscow. So it's very interesting that that played a role the individuals also the security team local. Our security team also went to where I was and collected some evidence and they did manage to get some evidence that showed people doing interesting things in the area. And I can't go into more detail, but I think it's very important to note that that evidence does exist and that it's been either belittled or hidden. So that's about the time that I head back on Medevac.

[Sean Ryan]

Before we go into Medevac, I'm. Are you saying that the scrape that you heard, do you think that was. Was that them moving furniture above you or was that the weapon?

[AJ]

I don't. I don't know what all it entailed. I know it was not normal.

[Sean Ryan]

Did you. Did you hear it at the same time you felt your arms, felt the chemical burn?

[AJ]

No, I didn't. That was probably about 30 minutes after the fact when I was kind of trying to pay attention to what was going on around me. I just had barely enough wits to focus for a second and try and collect your surroundings and see what's going on. And it wasn't until about 30 minutes after when I was sitting there, that I heard the furniture and the scraping behind me. Furniture was up, scraping was behind the headboard. It felt like. It was like right against the wall behind me. That's what it. It felt like. So Medevac back real quick.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, I just want to dive in a little bit more. Sure. Did anybody investigate who was in the room above you or beside you?

[AJ]

So it's. It's very tough. Once again, we're in an environment that may not necessarily be incredibly friendly to us, so you're not going to be able to really get that information. And even if you do, it's hard to actually trust it because you're getting it from someone else. So I would say it's virtually impossible to do a correct investigation anywhere that's really not your own country. It's very hard because you're kind of at your host's discretion on what they're able to share, what they want to share, what they tell you anywhere in the world. I don't care if you're in the uk, you're going to get some sort of bias back and different locations will be even much harder to get anything back. So you really can't trust too much of what you might get back when you ask. Obviously, there's ways to do investigations and other means, and I'm not quite sure that was ever done, and I think we can maybe get to that. So the Medevac back, I don't remember much of it. I don't remember the ride very Much to the airport. Thankfully. I had a friend.

[Sean Ryan]

They had you book your own travel, book everything yourself. Correct.

[AJ]

So that was the guidance. I couldn't even read an email. I couldn't think. I was solely relying on everybody else in the office to help me. Yeah, they said, book your own travel, book your own hotel, do all of those things. I was non functional, Sean. I couldn't do any of those things. This is where the, you know, the unofficial side steps up. Your friends and colleagues, they step up and fill those gaps. They flew someone out. My friends flew out to meet halfway and help get me through the airport, which was a godsend.

[Sean Ryan]

They didn't even send you with a courier.

[AJ]

No, they. My friends did it on their own. And you know, and we'll talk about some of the differences.

[Sean Ryan]

They said that they. You had a recommendation to get a medevac and they didn't send anybody to accompany you on the way home or they didn't. Somebody that needs to be medevaced.

[AJ]

They didn't even book my tickets. My friends did. My friends unofficially did it and flew someone out to meet halfway. And I'm very grateful for all of them. And I'll talk about some of the other efforts that they did. You know, you just take care of each other. And they did that for me. The airport just. I probably wouldn't have been able to make it very easily without the help of my colleague. The flight back, 14 hour flight back, I don't remember any of it. She said later that I sat in the seat and thankfully it was a business class or first class, whatever. And then I sat in the seat and stared straight forward at a blank screen the entire 14 hours. Didn't sleep, didn't move, didn't drink anything, didn't do anything. I don't remember any of that. And she said it was. She said it was freaky. She said it was very unsettling. I don't. I don't even remember. I remember it being extremely uncomfortable to fly. Never had that feeling before. And I remember specifically left ear, that there was a pain there. Like I couldn't pop it. Like. And I still have that to this day where there's a feeling of I need to pop my ears, but there's a blockage and it doesn't seem to work right. But it was painful to fly. Never had that before. But I do remember that aspect of it. So get back conus. And that starts, I think, the next chapter of medical and administrative issues that we started to go through.

[Sean Ryan]

Going back to the two nights of the incidents. So did the disorientation, did it plateau? I mean, is it a plateau or did it go down a little bit?

[AJ]

Really good question. I'm relying a lot, I think, on what others observed me during that time period. What they observed was, number one, they said I looked like an old man, that I shuffled. I wasn't picking up feet, arms in, head down. But they said I would go through a period of being able to have a conversation and then all of a sudden collapse where I basically go internal and look at the floor. The. I would say the. I would say it was probably. It probably did do some of that matching. Matching the energy level. But the confusion and the ability to process everything has never gotten better. It's never left. It's never left, left. It's never left. From that second on, the world has never been the same. I'm not able to process it, and we'll kind of refine it later on. There's almost a barrier where I'm not able to accurately process all of the stimulation coming in, but also not able to kind of project out my identity or ability to react to the environment. It's this weird barrier. So that processing and the ability and that confusion and the struggle to process and try and take in information and make it fit and then react to it has been constant. That's never, ever left. Even sitting here talking. I know we're talking, I know we're covering these topics, but I can't appreciate it. It doesn't really implant or embed into even the emotional side of what's really going on. It's just. It's that barrier. It's like you're neither living or dead, to kind of put it that way.

[Sean Ryan]

You're just kind of agnostic to everything that's going on around you.

[AJ]

I don't know if I'd say agnostic, as it's just so difficult to process. Think about, you know, when you've been awake for three, four days and you have that sleep deprivation and the world seems wrong. You know, you're not processing the world right. You know, it's off. That's the way it feels. Constantly is that kind of state of you're not able to really process everything and appreciate everything that's going on. And also you're not able to really express that out. As we went through the next phase,

[Sean Ryan]

did your emotions feel flat?

[AJ]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I definitely want to get into that when we talk about the next phase of when I started the medical and kind of got out of that Acute phase and how I started to categorize and look at what I was experiencing.

[Sean Ryan]

Just a couple more questions about the night of the incident you had mentioned. I think you had said it had gone in either your left or your right ear and out the other ear.

[AJ]

The first night it went in the right side. It did not go out.

[Sean Ryan]

It did not go out?

[AJ]

No, I didn't really feel anything on the left side. It felt like it shot right behind the ear. And I know that sounds absolutely crazy. It felt like it shot right behind. It almost felt like a pinpoint shot right behind the earth. And the sound, it felt like it was inside the center of my brain in my head. It wasn't an auditory sound. It wasn't like the ringing you get in your ear. It wasn't like you hear something external. It felt like the sound was in and I know it sounds just crazy. It felt like that sound was generating or was inside of, inside of the head where there's no ears. It was like I said, it was nothing I ever experienced before or after. That was the first night.

[Sean Ryan]

How long did that last?

[AJ]

About as long as I had, you know, kind of explained this. That sound was like a second or two. It was not long at all. Now was something going on beforehand? I don't know. I was asleep. My conscious only started when I felt that crushing that woke me up was that crushing sensation. The second night I heard no sound. I felt no crushing. It was a little different. So hard to say. The other individual that I had mentioned, he was awake. He wasn't asleep. He was actually awake when he experienced was, I think around 8 o' clock at night and he was still awake.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you, do you feel that if somebody was in the room and asked you where, where were you? I don't know what, what to call it. Where were you shot from?

[AJ]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Could you, do you feel like you could have directed that person said it definitely came from 100% or it came from up or below or 100.

[AJ]

I, I, least I could. Where I, I really felt it came from. Which would have been there, which, what

[Sean Ryan]

is there is that the exterior of the building.

[AJ]

It would have been interior hallway.

[Sean Ryan]

An interior hallway.

[AJ]

So there was. Right, right off that way was, was closets and on the other side of the closets it might have hit a little bit of the, the bathroom. Then there was the hallway. And then on the other side of the hallway were other rooms. And then of course room behind room above glass was, was to the left. The window was to the left. And Balcony was to the left. Balcony was in the other room actually. But this came from, from that way.

[Sean Ryan]

I don't know if you, I'm just going to ask it, but I mean, you know, if you were, if you were shot with a, with a, with a, with a rifle or a projectile, you know, it would be, they would aim it. You could, you can see exactly where they were aiming. I mean, do you feel like this is a precision type weapon or is it fill the room with, with microwave activity?

[AJ]

My instinct on this one would probably be this one was precision. My instinct would be this was a very precise, very much a beam precision thing. I think, I think it was, I think it was very, very precise.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay.

[AJ]

You hear a lot of other individuals, survivors out there that will say, you know, they felt like if they moved a couple feet to either side, they were out of it.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[AJ]

I think this was very precise. I do. Wow.

[Sean Ryan]

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[AJ]

Hi, I'm Sarah Adams, the host of Vigilance Elites. The watch floor where we highlight what matters. It became a permissive state. Explain to you why it matters and then aim to leave you feeling better informed than you were before you hit play. Terrorists, hostile intelligence agencies, organized crime, not everything is urgent. But this show will focus on what is need to know, not just what is nice to know.

[Sean Ryan]

I did this interview a long time ago with this Delta guy, Kyle Morgan, and he's the guy that hit the, he was the, he was the guy. You remember the Radisson Blue terrorist attack.

[AJ]

Yes, of course.

[Sean Ryan]

He was the Delta guy that saved all those people.

[AJ]

Yeah, he was.

[Sean Ryan]

And he came on here, I think it was like a month after separation. And so I almost didn't release the interview because his PTS was so fucking bad that he couldn't hold a thought. He was bouncing all over the place until he hit the actual mission.

[AJ]

Yeah. Then it's like, yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

And then he went right back there and I wound up keeping it because I talk about it all the time with all these guys that come on and myself. And I thought I was like, you know, this is actually what nobody gets to see. They get to see it all after it's been polished up and years of therapy and whatever, you know. And so I kicked it out as a display of, hey, this is what these fucking guys look like when they come home. You know what I mean? And I think we could do something similar with you if you want. You know what I mean? Go a little bit past that, Mark.

[AJ]

It's up to you, I think. And we're not going to have to try.

[Sean Ryan]

Okay.

[AJ]

It'll probably be apparent and you can feel free to comment on your own observations. Stephanie often comments. It's very frustrating for her because she sees me after the fact when I engage with people and they comment, oh, man, he's so well put together. He's, he seems, he seems fine. He's. She knows that, you know, the little duck legs underneath the duck are, are paddling a million miles a minute just to try and keep myself afloat. And then she sees the after effect of how I'm wrecked and how I, I, I, I'm done, you know, for the day or two days after those little types of engagements. So I don't know, I mean, do you, it's, it's hard because you want to still put on a good front for people so that, you know, kind of sociable or whatnot. But it's hard because you do want to just be like, man, I can't, I can't. This is painful and it's damaging me and it's detracting from myself, my bandwidth, and from, you know, from my wife because she's going to have to have me like this for a while. And that raw is sometimes good for folks to see. I will get there. But you know, please, please feel free as we kind of get to that point to even comment on that or. I'm totally fine with that.

[Sean Ryan]

I might actually leave the conversation that we just had in. But let's move into. Let's move into medical.

[AJ]

Yeah, sounds good.

[Sean Ryan]

Just pick up right where you left off.

[AJ]

Where was that?

[Sean Ryan]

You okay? We were talking about you. You got home from the medical, from the medevac.

[AJ]

Yep.

[Sean Ryan]

And that's about where we're at.

[AJ]

Okay.

[Sean Ryan]

We were getting into blood testing.

[AJ]

All right, good. We'll go from there. Got it. So get back from the medevac. Once again, thanks largely to my friends and colleagues that had picked up the slack that had flown with me halfway. They had arranged all of the things that they expected me to do. They had already arranged hotels and ways to communicate. They did a great job of isolating and protecting us at that time. They met my wife, brought her up. So my friends took care of all of that. The organization did not do any of those things. So we get to the hotel and I don't remember very much of it. I remember the first two, three weeks I had to sit in the room with the shades drawn because the light was too bright. I couldn't deal with the bright lights, couldn't watch tv, couldn't do anything like that.

[Sean Ryan]

So it was like a severe, never ending migraine.

[AJ]

I didn't have a headache at that time. It was just, I think stimulus. The processing aspect felt like it was too much for me to process. I remember we got a puzzle, a very easy, very easy puzzle. And I struggled so hard to pick out what the edge pieces were. I take a piece and I remember this. I'd look at it and say, I know you're an edge piece. And I'd put it back down and I pick it up again. And I said, I know you're an edge piece. I know you go over here. And I would methodically go through each piece. I know you're an edge piece, you're not an edge piece. And a day later, as I'm trying to put together these edge pieces, I realize I've missed 50%. Even though I had spent hours picking up each piece and trying to focus and discern what it was. And this is like, you know, 200 piece puzzle. That was very difficult. But if a friend came, I could talk about work related topics like nothing was right there, right back. There is no problem. Could talk about it. Those were old memories. The new stuff was very difficult. Like if I had to make coffee. Anything like that was very difficult. The new environments, new processing was difficult. Anything that happened old was actually pretty easy to remember. But anything new was. Was very hard to process. And I think it goes back to what we talked about where it's. It wasn't imprinting onto the brain as an experience or a memory or anything along those lines. I wasn't learning from, from those new experiences. So after the first couple weeks, I started to kind of get involved in the medical process. And we'll get much, I think, more into that when we talk about the administrative aspects. But I think I'd like to maybe hit some of the diagnoses that were. That came from that. And then how I categorized what I was experiencing.

[Sean Ryan]

What medical. Are you even going to.

[AJ]

So went to a regional medical facility.

[Sean Ryan]

At first, just a regular regional hospital.

[AJ]

It was a sports med.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, what, what do you even. How do you describe this?

[AJ]

Right.

[Sean Ryan]

I was in a hotel in Southeast Asia and got fucking zapped with an invisible laser beam.

[AJ]

It wouldn't make sense to anybody. So I think they just look at the medical things. The takeaway from that first visit was that my neurological response was measure. They do testing, right. To measure responses and ability to memorize. And all of that stuff was assessed at low average to average. In fact, I scored in the 19th percentile for some of the neuro neurological aspects of it, which they noted was, you know, not really commensurate with the education level that I had or. Or profession. Right. So it was 19th percentile for that. They noted, you know, vestibular issues, balance issues. Eyes were very difficult in movement like I did. Okay, Tracking finger this way. But when it went out, very difficult to get them to work together. So that was after kind of the first thing. And then went to a second regional medical facility where we had to go if we wanted to get MRIs, the blood work analyzed and all of this additional testing that was, it was kind of, if we wanted that we had to go to it because otherwise the organization was not going to pay for that. So we couldn't get MRI and testing on our own. If we did, it'd come out of our pocket. So that was the second facility. The second facility diagnosed me with. They did the blood work. We'll go back to that in a second. They noted I had irregular striated cataracts in both of my eyes. And I wasn't alone with that. Other. Other members of the cohort had the same type of cataracts. I said, well, it's not going to impact your vision, so don't Worry about it. MRIs were relatively normal, but I don't think MRIs really are very good at detecting some of the brain injuries, especially if it's cellular level. We've seen that with the NFL players that it's kind of had to been post mortem for them to actually see the damage in the brain, because MRIs just don't get it. But they did notice that the digital tensor imagery, I did have increased perivascular spaces, which is basically around the blood vessels. It's expanded and some increased flow to one of the regions, the optical region of the brain. They didn't really know how to interpret that, but it was different from the thousands of others that they had seen. So that's kind of an anomaly. And they said, well, you know, it's probably just because you're, you know, active, you know, and stuff. It's, it's. That's probably why you have larger spaces around your blood vessels. They also determined that I had a dysautonomia, which is a malfunction of the autonomic nervous system, which is interesting because it kind of was like, as I was doing some of the research and was reading about that Russian scientist in O3 that was working on the autonomic nervous system disruption, I said, oh, my goodness. So they determined that I had dysautonomia, specifically pots, which is postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome. I guess the best way I can kind of wrap my head around it is that my brain doesn't talk to my lungs and blood vessels correctly, so that when I'm standing, the blood vessels don't constrict and the blood really doesn't get pushed up to the brain. So the heart rate is 30 to 50 beats higher than it, than it should be. And blood pressure also is not quite as. As it should be. And I actually noticed right off the bat when I had, you know, gotten back from the medevac, I woke up in the middle of the night and I couldn't see. And I'm sorry that my heart rate was so far off that, you know, because I had kind of the wearables, I was like, I don't know what's going on with my heart rate. It's spiking. You know, I get up like, and spike to 120. What is going on with this? Like, I said, get in the middle of the night and I'd see that spike on my wearable during the night. What is going on with this. Why is my heart rate jumping up to 120? Why is it so high when I'm doing nothing? This is weird. So it turns out that that was why. And it took them about six months to notify me that even though they saw that right off the bat. The other thing.

[Sean Ryan]

Six months to notify you?

[AJ]

Yeah, they didn't really let me know right off the bat. I saw it and the first time they did it, but then they did another test, six months and confirmed it. And then they had to tell me,

[Sean Ryan]

who is this again?

[AJ]

There's a second regional medical facility. I can't really mention it. And then the technicians who worked on me noted that my cerebellum wasn't. Wasn't functioning properly. Specifically the motor skills learning. That's where it was very significant. So basically you stand on a platform and that platform kind of perturbs like you're riding on a Metro, you know, so it like jolts and they're able to manage your kind of watch your response time.

[Sean Ryan]

Can I ask a question?

[AJ]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

Did you just say you cannot mention the second regional hospital facility?

[AJ]

It wasn't cleared.

[Sean Ryan]

How, How. Okay, I'm going to go off on a tangent here. They didn't provide any of the fucking medical treatment for you. They didn't acknowledge this, didn't get a retirement. This is on your own dime, on your own time. How can they dictate.

[AJ]

I'm still in at this point. Okay, so this is right after medevac. And you know, it was obviously you're kind of grateful for whatever you get and still kind of just going along with the flow. I mean, So you just kind of want to know. It doesn't. I mean, you're just going along with the flow. You know how it is. You just. Okay, Roger, about face. You know, forward march. So the cerebellum wasn't working quite right, especially that motor skills, meaning my body didn't learn. Each time they perturbed it, my response time actually got worse automatically, especially going through your cerebellum. Your body gets used to it and actually predicts. And the response time that you have for that perturbation decreases because you're used to it. Your body anticipates it, knows what to do. Mine actually got worse over time as I fatigued. So my body was not learning based off of the muscles, memory, any of that, which is all in the cerebellum. They noted that I behaved and I responded very much like a Parkinson's patient whenever they would induce a fall or Things of that, the rigidity or whatever that might be. They say I presented like a Parkinson's patient. None of that ever made it into my medical records, anything like that. So then eventually I went to Walter Reed. After that, I got into the Walter Reed program, especially after they noted the blood, and I remember the blood very much. They pulled my wife and I in and said, oh my goodness, we have your blood. This is the spike. We know something happened. We're very sorry that with the, you know, the cataracts, which are not normal, it's apparent something happened. We're, we're really sorry.

[Sean Ryan]

Who's telling you this?

[AJ]

The second regional medical facility that helped get me into the, into the third place I went, which was Walter Reed, into their program there. Walter Reed, kind of, they don't do the diagnoses. They said, we're only here to treat symptoms. We don't diagnose. Now, that being said, what was diagnosed when they sent me to the big Walter Reed, there was. My eyes don't work properly together. They're off both vertically and horizontally. I do have depth perception, but in some of the tests it was just really far off. So my eyes are basically kind of fighting each other and trying to focus and perceive and move and track. So they're kind of at war. I don't have fine tune hearing in my ears. The audiologist said that the outer ear follicles don't respond. So that either means that I was so close to a blast that it basically broke off those outer ear follicles or the signal from the brainstem isn't making it to the ears. So the sound hits the inner ear, goes to the brainstem. Brainstem then shoots a signal back to the outer ear follicles to move and fine tune that hearing. So it's extremely difficult for me to tell from where sound is coming. And I noticed that immediately after the medevac was I was struggling to hear people in conversations and really delineate what they were saying. I found myself really leaning in and, you know, struggling to kind of make that out. And I didn't know if it was processing aspect or something else going on. And maybe it's a little column a, little column B. So ears don't work right, Eyes don't work right. They also confirmed that I had dysautonomia. The pots, relatively serious. I'd say maybe one out of three people that has that level of POTS don't even leave the home because it's so debilitating. So that was at Walter Reed Then I did some additional private stuff on my own. And that was interesting because they were separate from that, but they corroborated a lot of what they had seen before. One of the private places I went, they were shocked at how I responded. They actually called someone over to take a look and say, oh my gosh, look at his reactions aren't normal. Something's really off with the, with the neurological system here. Eye tracking was off again, mostly horizontally. I wasn't able to track. The eyes would, would skip and bounce, you know, something that was moving. And then they noted some other things. But they did the several tests which were interesting. They repeated the exact same test that I took at the very first place that I went, and I scored a 19%. Six months later I went to this other, you know, private institution and I scored in the exact same area, 79%. So I went from 19% to 79% in six months. What's really weird about that was I actually thought I did worse on the second test that I scored a 79. My perception of where I was performing right after being injured was so far off that I actually thought I was doing better at that test than I had done six months later. Even though, you know, that was a 19%, this was a 79%, and that's not the same. I did that same test at Walter Reed. It was a concussion test where I think it was developed out at West Point for the boxers. They developed that test to measure your ability after a concussion to respond. Did the same test several months apart. The first test I was, was low average. The second time they did it, I was average to high average. I actually thought I did worse in that second test than I did in the first test. And I told them, I'm like, I totally bombed that one. I did way worse on that second one than I did when we took it months ago. And they're like, that's interesting. No, it's complete opposite. You did way better. So my perception of how I actually was doing even at the earlier stages was so far off, I couldn't even, I couldn't even tell. Maybe it kind of goes back to that puzzle. I thought I was crushing it. You know, I thought I had picked out every single piece and it was only 50% of them. So there was a lot of, you know, kind of that confirmation from the, from the medical side that something had happened. I had no pre existing conditions before this, no comorbidities, never had Covid from whatever. Definitely didn't have it during the time of the incident, because we were tested, you know, like seven times on either end and threw it, you know, never, never got the shot. So none of those were possible, you know, things to describe. And anything that happened because I had no issues before that shoulder surgery from, you know, from lifting, that was, that was it. That was the only thing. Probably the last real doctor I had was, was my pediatrician. So no comorbidities before all of these things. And, and as we started to go through some of the medical stuff, I, I really tried hard to chunk it up into four different categories and, and what I was experiencing. And I'm hopeful this will help some of the members of the cohort, but maybe also some of our brothers and sisters in arms that have had tbis. I chunked it all up into physical, cognitive, emotional, and then kind of the miscellaneous spin, the cognitive stuff. The thing I noticed right away was the brain fog. The ability to think executive function completely went out the window. Before this, it was almost impossible to stop the thought process. Your mind was always going in a four dimensional kind of game of chess. You're able to think backwards and forwards in time, multiple courses of action, and figure out what those consequences might be. Do it simultaneously while also contemplating the existence of black holes. You can do all of that after it. I feel like it was very two dimensional. If what I had to deal with was not 12ft in front of me, I could not process it or think about it.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[AJ]

Every thought had to be extremely deliberate, even speech. I was stuttering right when I came back. I couldn't think of the words. I couldn't process it. I maybe want to say popcorn and porcupine would come out and I mix up my lefts and my rights and I still do. So that cognitive aspect is just like the brain was in peanut butter. Could still think about things that happened in the past, could still recall that. But short term memory kind of went away as well. There are blank spaces, just absolute blank spaces in that. But the thought process was terrible. The executive function, like I said, was completely, completely gone. I wasn't able to think strategically at all. The physical side, everything required so much energy to accomplish simple tasks. Like I said, the eyes don't work right, the ears don't work right. The balance is off. It feels like I'm on a paddle board, kind of on a calm pond or something. I can't feel the ground. The ground isn't there. It's almost like from the head down, there's an empty space. You know, I still have nerve. I can Feel it, but it's. That sensation's not quite there. And that includes the ground and the feeling, like feeling steps, feelings, you know, things going downstairs is very difficult. So balance this off. The. I don't know if it was the disorder dysautonomia or the pots, but any physical activity was extraordinarily draining. I, you know, like to do ultramarathons and walking for 15 minutes felt like I had been running for 15 hours. Both the kind of the mental drain that you have from that level of exertion for that long, but also the physical. I physically felt exhausted after 15 minutes of walking. That's. That hasn't left. I mean, I can almost set my watch to. When I go for a walk or a jog, I will feel the world collapse. The world comes in, it's impossible to process. Right around 13 minutes and 30 seconds to 15 minutes and 30 seconds in that window. It's almost like clockwork as everything falls apart. Jeez. So the physical aspect of it, everything, you know, like, required, like I said, so much energy. Initially, a meeting would like a two hour meeting or something. I would be flat out for two days laying in bed, not sleeping, but just trying not to have any stimulus, to have the brain think, just to kind of calm it down. It would just be out of it. Walking down a hallway, especially a busy one, was. I can't even explain. It's like a hall of mirrors. It's so disorienting. You kind of, kind of go towards the side of the hallway just to have a bearing, you know, to feel it, to have that and try not to focus on it because it was so disorienting. The world was still going so fast and still does so like this. The world's going so fast and I can't process it. Going into a store, extremely difficult. And I know others have said that too, especially some of our brothers and sisters with tbis. It's completely overwhelming, confusing. Several, I would say maybe four weeks after I got medevac back, I went with a colleague into rei. I was going to buy socks for my wife. I'm like, this is my big outing. She needs socks. You know, this specific type, this kind. I can do this. We went to rei. We found the sock section. I couldn't do it. I could not even process what was going on to pick out socks. And I had to leave because I. I couldn't do it. So this is, you know, kind of coming from where I was before to I can't go into REI and pick out Socks. Even though I know what I'm supposed to get, I can't do it. Couldn't do it, couldn't process it. Got so overwhelmed with everything and trying to think at the same time. I had to leave emails. I could maybe read an email, but it would take hours to kind of process and I'd go back and reread it. Typing one would take all day or two and I would have to go back and I'd find numerous mistakes. And you know, my wife would help obviously with, with all of those things. She handled all of our communication, all of the emails, all of the phones. I couldn't even handle that when, when I first got back, she had the phone and would answer my friends, arrange everything and take care of all of the things I was physically not able to do. All while not getting any support except from our friends, all while trying to finish up her PhD. So, yeah, we'll get into how amazing she is. So the physical was very hard. The emotional was, right off the bat was completely emotional flat. And you know, I would be kind of proud to being stoic beforehand, but this was different. This was just absolutely flat. I couldn't recognize my own emotions. I couldn't recognize the emotions in others.

[Sean Ryan]

You couldn't recognize emotions in others?

[AJ]

Right.

[Sean Ryan]

You couldn't tell if somebody was angry, happy, sad.

[AJ]

Exactly. So, for example, I like data, Walter Reed. And going through some of that, they would show pictures of faces and they'd say, what's this person feeling right now? And I would mix, I would get that wrong. This person would be crying and I'd say, they're happy. I could not. That connection was completely broken. I couldn't even really recognize my own face in the mirror. I know I recognized my wife, but I couldn't connect. Like, I know she's my wife. I know I should feel this way. I know we have a long history, but it's not there. It's hard to recognize.

[Sean Ryan]

And so what you're, what you're describing, you're saying that you know who your wife is, you know you're married, you know you have all the memories.

[AJ]

Yes.

[Sean Ryan]

But it's like the, the connection that drew you to her is gone at

[AJ]

this point, I think.

[Sean Ryan]

No, you're supposed to feel a certain way. You remember maybe the way you used to felt feel. But in this moment in time,

[AJ]

that

[Sean Ryan]

connection that you felt is now gone.

[AJ]

I think that's very fair and very accurate. And not only the emotions, not even with her, but with everybody, with everyone, including myself. Like, I didn't feel like I had an identity anymore. I couldn't even connect with that. It was like a switch. And I think it kind of goes back to the barrier we talked about. Kind of the world being let in or imprinting and me being able to. To express out. It's like that connection instantaneously was. Was broken. And honestly, it still is. It still is like that. That connection is still not quite there with myself or with others. That, that. That ability.

[Sean Ryan]

Has it improved?

[AJ]

I think so. But it's also once again very hard for me to tell because I don't really trust my own observations. Based on everything we've talked about, I feel like my observations might be off as well and my own self ability or self awareness might be off on that as well.

[Sean Ryan]

How much of your reality do you feel that is off?

[AJ]

All of it.

[Sean Ryan]

Everything?

[AJ]

Yes. The processing of the world around is so strained. It. The reality, and I hate to use the word reality, but the perception, the understanding of where I am in time and space is, Is gone. Which is really hard because that's something that I think we, we appreciate. Especially those of us who like to be outdoors, who like to be physical, who like to enjoy our surroundings, enjoy company, enjoy all of the things that are life. I think that's extremely hard because it's not, it's not being processed properly. I would say that also part the emotional, though. There was emotional, you know, roller coasters where. And my wife will definitely, you know, second this, where I would have kind of an irrational, you know, kind of anger for no reason, like an annoyance. Like I was so focused on something and I got interrupted. You know, that kind of an annoyance and still that kind of anxiety. You know, I, you know, of course would say I don't have anxiety, but it's there, it's kind of in that chest and some. It's not related to anything. It's just like something's off. Like those connections are off. And that was instantaneous. It was just that night that happened, just everything that we're talking about changed in a second. So that was the emotional bin and then I had the miscellaneous bin that I just couldn't really categorize. I just threw things in there. Like temperature regulation was off. That was documented Walter Reed. My skin temperature was 4 or 5 degrees lower than it should be, just. And temperature regulation is off. I'll shiver, especially if I get overtaxed. Night vision. I lost night vision. I woke up and once again in the middle of night and I thought I was blind and I should have been able to see. I had great night vision. I went like this. I remember going like this. And I couldn't see my hand. It just was gone. And later we find out that I found out by going to another institute that the peripheral cones don't work in my eyes. They don't respond quite properly, which I agree. I don't really have that peripheral sensation as much as I used to. But my pupils are off. They don't respond correctly. They never really dilate to the way they should. Very constricted. And in doing some of the other treatment that we'll hopefully get to, they actually noticed that my right one would dilate. When we tried to energize some of the cells to give them a little bit of energy, My right one would actually dilate. My left one would stay constricted. So the pupils are not functioning properly. Void of any light. They will pulse, which isn't. Which isn't normal. So that kind of explains the loss of night vision. Hunger, thirst. Those were all gone. Just very off. Unpleasant things like digestive issues. There are other things that I kind of will throw in that miscellaneous fourth bin.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow. I mean, it's everything.

[AJ]

It really is. And it started then and has not stopped at all. It's. It's constant. There's no relief. I did have a headache for about the first. I didn't have a headache at first, but that started, I would say, about three weeks, four weeks after I got back off of medevac, and it lasted about a year. Constant, constant headache. Nothing would hit it. You know, tried the. The Botox, the acupuncture, some of the other pills that they gave me, which I didn't agree with. Nothing would hit. It never went away. I always would start back here, move forward. I felt like it was just like your eyes were both collapsing and exploding at the same time. That was kind of the feeling.

[Sean Ryan]

When you're talking about you don't trust your own perception of reality, how do you. Who do you trust to help you gain that perception of what's actually happening?

[AJ]

Good question. I mean, obviously I trust, you know, my wife, best teammate. Anybody could ever have to have some of those observations. And it's at least how I'm doing.

[Sean Ryan]

Can you give me an example of a time where your perception of reality is so off that your wife has to. Or you have to question your wife? I think I do this all the time.

[AJ]

Yeah, I think that.

[Sean Ryan]

I think this. I mean,

[AJ]

I think that I'm more thinking about how I perceive that I'm Doing okay. Kind of hearkening back to even the tests where I thought I was doing better than I actually had in comparison to where I am now. Like, even today, I know we would not be here having this conversation a year ago. I wouldn't have been able to do it. I mean, it's still obviously going to be a struggle, and it's going to put me out. I'm struggling now, but I wouldn't have. I just wouldn't have been able to do it. My perception of effort is the same, so I know I'm better in some regards, even though sometimes I feel like I'm worse. But my performance, I know, is better. I know I'm able to do more things, but I still feel almost the same. So my perception of how I'm feeling and how I'm doing, I think is often that. But I know I have improved. I would probably rank myself right now on a good day, probably somewhere around 70 to 75% cognitively of where I was before, at least for an hour or two during the day. And then it'll drop. If I'm more engaged physically, I still feel like I'm about 30 to 35% of where I was before. And that will drop as I become more taxed, whether that's either cognitively or physically. So I think that is where my perception is. The reality. I think of what I'm talking about, too, is just more of a feeling of where I am, an appreciation for the time and space around me. And I know it's very hard to make sense of. It's just the world is off. It's not being laid down properly. I. I think the best way to kind of think about what it feels like in my. In my perception and processing is to, you know, spin around on the bat three times and then close, cross your eyes and stay like that for 30 minutes with your eyes crossed. That's kind of what the signals feel like when they're coming in and I'm trying to process it. Where they're jumbled, they're just not crisp, clear. And I still feel like there's that barrier that isn't really letting in all of that environment, or at least I'm not processing that environment in a way that says, I'm here right now. This is what's going on and where I can appreciate it. Like I said, I know we're here. I know we're talking. I know the content that we're discussing. That's reality. I know that I can't appreciate the conversation as much as I would love to appreciate it, that connection is not being really laid down. I'm not really able to take everything in and appreciate that environment, which I'm confident you're kind of the same way. You love that. You love that situational awareness. You love being able to know what's over here, what's over there, what's going on all the time, and put yourself in that environment. It's just. It's existing, and that's. That's what's kind of gone from that. And that, I think, bleeds over from all of those physical, emotional, cognitive, miscellaneous. I think that. That kind of bleeds over into all of those. So we did a lot of the medical stuff. I tried a lot of different medical, alternative stuff all out of pocket. And I hate to use the word alternative because it seems like, you know, allopathic medicine is alternative these days. You know, here's your pill. That's alternative to actual medicine and having your body do that. But I did try different areas. One clinic I went to, Fascinating, was up in Chicago. They basically focus on the. The peripheral part of your retina. The kind of the ideology behind it is if you pull your brain matter forward, that's your retina. If you pull it down, it's your spinal column. So retina's part of your brain. Right. They do these tests to kind of assess the damage. And it was. It was. It was just fascinating. It was like black magic. First thing is that they did a kind of a reading test six months after the attack. I was reading at a third grade level. A third grade level, Third grade level in both speed, accuracy, and content. They would put me in a room, and they would call it Pin. Pin the tail on spongebob. There's a picture of spongebob there, and you stare at it. You close your eyes, you turn around very slowly two times, and then you point at where you think Spongebob is. The first time I did it, I was 90 degrees off. The second time I did it, I was 180 degrees off. I could not tell where I started and where I finished. The bubble in the brain on orientation was just completely broken. They thought that was amazing. But I would do their. They had one thing where they're like, here's a picture or. No, they read a. They read a paragraph, and then they said, draw a picture of what that paragraph is. So you had to draw a picture of what that paragraph was. And they're like, that's the. That is the. Literally the best photograph or picture explaining that paragraph we have ever seen anybody do, healthy or otherwise. So using a lot of those skills that we had built up over our professional time, I'm pulling out all of the stops on these tests. But that one was not physical. That was me utilizing all of the tricks that I've learned over the years to put things together and do it. And the tests they did were interesting. They did simple things, like they would put something in front of your face, and they'd say, close your eyes. Touch it. Say, okay, close your eyes. Touch it. Impossible. Could not touch that thing. So then they would block out and filter where light was going through your eyes and going back to the retina. They would filter it, block that out until they put that in front of your face, you close your eyes, and you touch it every single time. Basically, what they were doing was trying to move that light to a different part of the retina that would process it in a different area of the brain that wasn't damaged. Fascinating. And the same thing with sound. They would. You'd close your eyes, they'd ring a bell, and they'd say, touch the sound. Impossible. Couldn't do it until they filtered it around some of the damaged areas. And then every single time, you almost could not help but touch the sound because your body just does that. So that was very interesting. And working with them, I think, got me up to about. To the point where I could drive again. I was not able to drive for about the first year and a half after the injury. Riding in the car was terrible. Couldn't process it. I'd be like, oh, my gosh, everything is moving so fast. And then a year and a half later, it was. It was about one mile in two turns to start driving again. Holy cow. And I remember the. You know, when I started driving, and I remember it felt like kind of, you know, freedom. I was able to do stuff again like I could drive, and then I was able to drive and get a haircut. I was like, holy cow. That this is amazing. And some of the other medical stuff that we tried we can definitely get into. I want to talk about that at some point for, you know, just to give folks an idea of some of the other options that are out there than just, you know, here's your pills, here's your SSRIs. You know, you don't have to just treat your symptoms. You can try and fix the system.

[Sean Ryan]

Before we move on you, you had mentioned that you had a brain scan, I think, and that nothing showed up. A lot of these symptoms are Very common with tbi, severe TBI and severe tbi. There's black spots in the brain. Have you did anything like that show up on yours?

[AJ]

Not that I'm aware of and I had multiples. I think the mechanism of injury probably is different for, for a lot of the TBIs. That's a very much a, a blunt force issue, I think with the, you know, the pulse, if this is what I'm, I'm sure it is. The pulsed microwaves with non thermal aspects, I think it impacts our body in a similar but different way. I think it hits just like we talked about in some of the historical aspects. I think it hurt it, it disrupts the nervous system, it disrupts the autonomic nervous system. I think it disrupts the cellular aspect, mitochondria, all of those aspects. The body just isn't in homeostasis. So I think at the cellular level I think there's damage. I think the mitochondria are not quite functioning properly. Maybe there is manipulation or change in MRNA DNA where the cell isn't able to function the way it should. I wouldn't rule that out as being part of it as well. So I think there is indeed a lot of overlap in some of the symptoms and we would see that. But I think there is also a lot of differences and a lot of. And one of those is that I think our symptoms are always obviously there and very persistent, which makes me think it's more of a cellular issue. Brainstem cerebellum, maybe the nerve bundle at the base of the brain that was impacted differently than exposure to the trauma that breaks those, you know, axions and those parts of the brain where it physically breaks those connections. Ours might be more subtle on the cellular brainstem cerebellum area where that doesn't show out. And as far as I know, I don't really think anybody's focused on doing scans of the cerebellum and brainstem as much. And I think that would be very, very interesting to do.

[Sean Ryan]

So we were getting into some of the, some of the non traditional treatments that you've tried. I'm just curious and I'm not trying to steer you anyway. Have you looked at psychedelics?

[AJ]

It's a conversation I had with a doctor just a couple weeks ago and I was once again very much how do we fix what's broken? And my hold up with that was I'm not sure how that mechanically fixes what's broken. But I'll circle back to that because I had a conversation with him and there's interesting studies about how we'll work backwards and establishing those connections that are severed or broken and energizing those cellular structures. And that was kind of the conversation we had with a doctor. I, I still am curious how does that work with a, with our type of brain and those damages? I'm not sure yet. Definitely, I think is worth exploring because there has been, you know, a lot of obviously good success stories from that and establishing those connections. They've seen it on, you know, the, the tests that they've run. They've actually had that dye injected. I think it was actually rabies that glows green. And they're actually able to track when the animal ingested the psychedelic. They could actually track each step that that went through and reconnected some of the brain tissues. Wow. So there's definitely something I think to be said about that and worth exploring further. The things that I had kind of tried and it was, I got linked up with a group, nfim, national foundation for Integrated Medicine. They do a lot with veterans as well, and wounded warriors. Great group of people. I mean, they definitely take hits and go into the red to help families out. What we tried and we looked at was, all right, let's try and fix the system, not the symptoms. Let's try and energize these cells. Let's try and get the mitochondria back up, fired. Let's try and get your cells that are in the cell damage response to, to wake up and realize they're cells again. As they explained it, when you have a trauma, the cells shut down, they go into a cell damage response. Like I said, we're closing down, shields up, we're not functioning. And then they'll tell the other cells around it, you guys need to do the same. Something happens, shut down as well. So not only do you have your damaged cells that aren't functioning, it kind of spreads out to even a larger area that says you're not functioning either because something happened and you need to put protect yourselves. So these cells are also neither living or dead. They're not functioning. So try to do some things to wake them up. Energize, put electricity into that body to wake up those cells and say, hey, wake up. Start functioning, do your role. You know, start, start processing information like you're supposed to get out of that sleep mode. Some of the things that we tried were Equiscope, which I think was developed in Germany 40 some years ago. Neurogen brain balancing. That's I think a company out of California, a MARSOC Marine now runs that. It's been very interesting and successful in helping a lot of vets. We did V cell stem cells. So basically you take your own blood out, spin, spin it, get the plasma, energize it, stick it back in and guide it to where it needs to go via a laser which kind of hits the cells and tells them, hey, stick here.

[Sean Ryan]

I was going to ask if you did stem cell.

[AJ]

Yep, I definitely need to do more of it.

[Sean Ryan]

So you got something out of that?

[AJ]

I think so. Interesting enough. Even after the first equiscope treatment. Once again, I wrote like data at first equiscope treatment I did with these guys. Everybody's faces were different. They changed. I could actually recognize faces in a little bit of emotion after that first round. It was crazy. It was just everything changed. I was like, oh my goodness, your people. Like, wow, that's emotion. You look completely different than how I had onboarded that before. Wow. That was, you know, even after the first, first treatment with that. So I think there's something there. I still would like to try hbot. I think we're at a good point to try that. I do frequency specific modulation which is kind of a. At home. I bought a device on myself that sends frequencies through to kind of energize those cells to give them energy to kind of wake back up and do what they're supposed to do.

[Sean Ryan]

Like a rife machine.

[AJ]

I don't know what that is. I don't know what the rifle. It's almost like a tens machine, but it's different. It's very specific frequencies for different functions in the, in the neurological system.

[Sean Ryan]

Sounds like a rife machine.

[AJ]

I don't know. I have to check into that. So those types of things are things that I've tried and I've noticed that there has been improvement. What really is, I think difficulty, especially with our cohort and I'm sure with other colleagues and our wounded warriors and families is there's not a one stop shop. You can't go to one location where you can have these different things done. Your family can be there. You can recover as you need to. And you have the time and space to do that. You have to travel for all of these things.

[Sean Ryan]

Are you getting anything out of the frequency machine?

[AJ]

I think so. I do. I continued on with the equiscope. There's a really nice woman who helped me not too far, not too far from where I am. And after each session I would feel like my eyes would be clearer. I was able to process things better. But it's something I had to keep up and keep doing. And I think that's something you just have to kind of keep going. And that's expensive. Like I said, everything comes down to availability, affordability, safety and efficacy. But I think that's the difficult part is there's not really a one stop shop for any of these, I hate to use the word alternative medicines, but a place to go and do these types of protocols that have, at least for me, shown some benefit. What I would really like to see is not only something like that exists, but people look into it, especially Vadha, and incorporating these types of protocols into treatment of vets and their families, whether active duty or retirement or disabled. I really think we need to seriously look at doing that and giving vets alternative options. And going back to your inquiry on the psychedelics, I know there's studies going on when they are, where they are actually looking at that. And I'm hopeful people like the VA and dha, you know, the Defense Health Agency, take that on board and offer vets their families different protocols to try instead of just saying, here's Your, here's your SSRIs, here's your pills to try and mask the symptoms.

[Sean Ryan]

Man, it'd be great if we got there, but you know, who knows? But the good news is the word is out and a lot of healing is happening. Unfortunately not inside our borders. Everybody has to leave to go get

[AJ]

healed, which isn't good because one of the things the doctor said was you really need to have a good environment to do it in and, and to ensure that it takes properly. So I'm hopeful too that, you know, once the truth kind of gets out, you can't put it back in the bottle and hopefully folks start to see and incorporate this in. But it shouldn't come out of anybody's pocket. Yeah, it shouldn't come out of our wounded warriors pockets. It shouldn't. You know, I probably have spent, you know, a third to a half of my annual retirement annuity on treatments that shouldn't be like that. We have to, we can do better.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you want to take a break? Sure, let's take a break. We've all seen it. The Department of War is operating in a world that's changing faster than ever. That's why so many guests on my show talk about the importance of continued innovation and technology in the military. But here's the problem. Working with the Department of War can be complex. For many companies, the process isn't always transparent. It's hard to know who the right Stakeholders are where the decisions are made or how funding actually moves. Even when you get the right conversation started, you often hear the same responses. We like the technology, but funding is already allocated. Or check back next fiscal year. That leaves a lot of capable teams with strong products but no clear path forward. That's where my friends at SBIR Advisors come in. They've built a team of over 60 former acquisition officers who spent their careers inside that black box. They help you find the right buyers in the Department of War, find the money, and write winning proposals so you can get on the right contract and fast. Since 2020, they've helped small businesses like yours win over $600 million in government contracts. And they're a 100% veteran team dedicated to one thing. Getting the best technology into the hands of the people who need it the most. The warfighters. If you're serious about selling to the Department of war, go to sbiradvisors.com that's sbiradvisors.com and if you mention my name, you'll get the first month free. Want to stay up to date on all things srs? You bet your ass you do. Our newsletter brings you the latest SRS news and critical updates. Get instant alerts on the newest episodes. Never miss a beat. Exclusive intel briefs from counterterrorism expert Sarah Adams. You've seen her many times on the show. She's going to give unfiltered insights on global terrorist activity for Patreon exclusives. You're going to get epic range days with me and damn near every guest that's come in the studio. You're also going to get behind the scenes content and guest updates. You're going to get first dibs on new merch drops and limited edition items that will never be sold again. Plus exclusive offers from our partners you won't find anywhere else. So subscribe to the Vigilance Elite newsletter right now. All right, A.J. we're getting ready to get into institutional betrayal. But before we do, are you familiar with claude, the AI program?

[AJ]

Just in. Yeah, in reference and I haven't used it, but yes.

[Sean Ryan]

So we've been using CLAUDE a lot for research and we put all our research, our outline, everything we could find to into it to give us. Give us a. A question that we may have not come up with. And it generated a. Probably the best damn question that I'm going to ask you. So I'm just going to read what it spit out. The Russians described disorder of the autonomic nervous system is the specific intended effect of their directed energy research. At a public European symposium in 2003, you were diagnosed with disautonomia, an automatic nervous system disorder caused by brain injury. The weapons designed outcome in your clinical diagnosis are the same thing. At what point does the intelligence community stop calling this anomalous and start calling it what the Russians themselves have already named it?

[AJ]

That's a great question.

[Sean Ryan]

Maybe the CIA should start using Claude.

[AJ]

Maybe. Yeah, we'll get to that. Yeah, let's put a pin in that one and circle back because that's a really good question. And when we talk about where we stand today and why the holdup, I think. Yeah, let's circle back to Claude on that. That's a really good question. Not better than your questions, but it's a really good question that I think is on everybody's mind as well.

[Sean Ryan]

This is a connection nobody has made publicly. Makukin's 2003 presentation at the European Symposium on Non Lethal Weapons described the exact clinical outcome that AJ and others were diagnosed with. The term anomalous becomes absurd when the adversary published the intended biological effect two decades before the attacks.

[AJ]

Absolutely. And I'm not alone with that diagnosis as well. Other people have suffered from that as well, and we don't. No one knew these symptoms before. None of this was. This is all post fact and learning about it later on from other posts. Oh, you got. Wow, that's interesting. But others have dysautonomia as well. That's not a. It's not. I'm not an n of 1 on that and the other. You brought that up as fascinating too. That was what, over two decades ago? You know, where were we technologically two decades ago? Phone wise, computer wise? How far have we come since Claude didn't exist then? I don't think. But you know, think about how much things have miniaturized and changed and what they're able to do now. So that was 2003. Where. Where are we now with this?

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, that's a damn good point.

[AJ]

Yeah, let's. I really want to circle back to that one. When we talk about what has happened, I would say since 2020 and in the, in the publications that are out there and how absurd it actually is. Yeah, let's. That's a great question. Yeah, I'm excited to get to that one.

[Sean Ryan]

Bring it back up. Let's talk about institutional betrayal.

[AJ]

So we'll kind of go back, reset the timeline. We talked about some of the medical aspects and that really brought us up to the current. For the most part, we'll kind of jump back to, you know, getting back from medevac. And we talked a little bit about the, the first part when we got medevac, how I was asked to do all of the things right. And I couldn't even read an email. I couldn't process anything. I was relying on everybody at the office to do simple things. I couldn't do anything. So right there was an interesting indicator of kind of how things might, might go. But you know, people don't understand. I didn't understand, I didn't know what was going on. That's fine. I get back. Once again, thanks to my colleagues who really stepped in. They took care of me, did everything at the hotel, get me all the things, brought food, communication devices, all of the things right for my wife and I. They'd stop by, check in. No one from my chain of command stopped by for two weeks and only after one of the my fellow senior officers guilted them in to stopping by. He went, you know, into their office basically, what are you doing? Have you, why have you not gone to check on, on our colleague? So eventually they came, but only after being guilted. So no one from my chain of command even even stopped by at that. For two, for two, for two weeks. Didn't meet me at the, my friends met me at the airport, didn't meet me at the airport. When I got back, only after they were guilted by another senior officer, a colleague that they, that they came by, you know, so kept going, you know, did the medical stuff. Really was pushing hard. The first question I asked the people that were orchestrating all of this was how long is this going to take before I can get back out? Is this like a two week thing? I mean, I don't want to be gone long. Is this going to. If I met a back out, how quick am I going to get back out here? Because this is ridiculous. I don't want to be, I don't want to be gone long. This hopefully takes only a couple weeks. You know, they're like, well, we don't know, could be a little longer. So my attitude the entire time was how quickly can I get back out? How quickly can I get through this and, and get back out and, and hit the mission. I had no idea what, what I was dealing with at the time. Kind of progressing through, going to the medical appointments every day, especially Walter Reed. Just trying my hardest because I'm like, well, if I put in the effort, I'll muscle myself through this. It's going to get better. It's got to heal quick, right? Everything just heals. It has to heal quick. Anyway, I remember getting a. I was in an appointment at Walter Reed and they interrupted and said, you got to go to your office there in the headquarters there. I said, okay, they have something to tell you, so go back in there. And apparently a separate institution analyzed my blood and had found a nerve agent in my blood. Interestingly, it was from before as well. So it had been in my blood a while, which honestly made sense. I didn't quite feel right after Central Asia, so was kind of like, oh, okay. They did more tests and said, well, we think it's just naturally occurring in your body, so we think it's okay. So just kind of file that one away for an anomaly. I remember that happening at that point in time. Shortly thereafter, I get a phone call saying, you got to come, come in again. We have to talk. So I come in and it's with, you know, the analytical cell. There's an analytical cell that was basically put in charge of managing all of the things. That's who we dealt with. We didn't deal with our normal chain of command after we kind of were put into this. I wouldn't even call it a pipeline, but everything was dealt with with this analytical cell. Analysts and some HR lawyers and some medical personnel, right? So go in there, they kick everybody out except for one individual who said, look, we're going to be pushing out an interim report on this, and this is really hard for me, but I'm being asked to choose between the building and the people, and there's a good chance we're going to cover this up. He didn't really go into much more than that. Mentioned a bit about the potential second invasion of Ukraine playing a role. No more information on that. But whether he was distraught or feigned distress, he was upset that he was being forced to choose between the building or the people. You know, loyalty versus integrity type of thing that we talked about before. At that point in time, I said, I said, man, you got to do what you got to do. You got to look yourself in the mirror at night and be comfortable with that decision. I know what I would do, but I'm not you. And I left.

[Sean Ryan]

Was he comfortable with his decision?

[AJ]

He was. He wasn't the right one, in my opinion. If he was comfortable with, uncomfortable with it, it didn't cause him to change it. At that point in time, I realized there's no way that they have any of our and best intentions in mind. Like, we're not going to Be really taken care of. If this goes down this path, if they're really going to go towards the. We're going to bury this for whatever reasons they were going to bury it for.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you think there's any government institution that cares more about its people than it does the building? I would.

[AJ]

I would say, unfortunately, probably no.

[Sean Ryan]

Not even the government itself.

[AJ]

I would say no. People within the organization are the only ones that can uphold that. That truth that people do matter more than the institution.

[Sean Ryan]

That's fucking chilling.

[AJ]

So the institutions by themselves, I guess I wouldn't say are bad, but they're made up of bad people or people. And I think that's the issue. The institutions themselves aren't bad, but they become corrupted by individuals that don't follow what that institution is designed or supposed to do. I mean, you don't have to go far even in the agency to see what the foundations of that place should be built on, right? Walk in that main entrance. What do you have on the left? The Bible, scripture. You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. What do you have on the right? The wall of stars. What also do you have? The memorial to the fallen agents. No one even pays attention to that or probably notice. There's my favorite memorial. That's the foundation of that place. Truth and sacrifice. That's what we do. Truth is what that organization is designed to do. It's supposed to speak the truth no matter what. We're apolitical, right? We go to the hardest places, do the things to get the truth so people are informed when they make decisions. That's why. Why that place exists on the other side is that sacrifice. We tend to, I think, look at sacrifice as blood and pain. I really like to kind of look at sacrifice in a different way as love. In that you get rid of the barriers that are between you and whatever it is that you're serving. Those selfish barriers, pride, career, money, whatever that is, in order to become closer to that mission, to be closer to other people out of love. So, you know, you have that on one wall, you have that on the other side. And of course, you can't forget about the. The memorial to our fallen colleagues and agents, right? Because that's the foundation why we. What do we do? What we do and how we do it is to protect their security. That's number one priority. Everything stems around that. If all people would do is focus on those things, the truth, sacrifice through love and protecting our greatest sources and colleagues, there would be no issues. But the problem is, I Think people move away from those foundations and they go on their own foundations, which is selfishness, careerism. They falsely say the institution is more important, but they're really saying that because the institution is probably protecting them and they're using it to advance their careers. Do they do work to further that? Absolutely. Happy to put their name on something that's successful in order to advance their own career, or do work that might maneuver them. But very rarely is it, you know, actually mission focused. You would think that a lot of people would wake up every morning and say, what can I do to further the mission? Be good stewards of the American taxpayers money and the trust and confidence that they've placed in us to execute that. I, I tried, I would try and remind myself daily of why I existed, but I think the sad reality is people don't do that. I think they wake up in the morning and say, how can I maneuver? How can I send this email that gets my point across? How can I gain this political advantage? How can I grow my program, get more money and get a better career out of it? So I think that if that is the pervasive mentality of the organization, the organization is automatically going to kind of go that way. So going through that, I realized, well, shoot, that's probably going to be the way things are going to go. All right, we're still going to press forward, we're going to do what we need to do, we're going to get better, we're going to get back out of the field, we're going to still work to fix things and fix this place. Christmas came and went. That was kind of a time point in my thought process of when I should be back out in the field. You know, it's like, okay, this is several months later, I should be better. I had a kind of bar about what I thought I should be able to do in order to say I'm, I'm good enough to go back out and not only not put people's lives at risk, but actually be of benefit. I was so far below that bar, what it was, it didn't even take a thought process. Like I said, I couldn't drive, I couldn't walk through the halls, I couldn't go to a meeting. I really felt that if I did anything, I would be a danger to others in my decision making process. And that's not right. So I had them pull my assignment and just kind of focus on one foot in front of the other and we'll burn that bridge when we get there. I Had six months on the TDY kind of package, right where you come back from medevac and you have some extra resources for hotels or whatever, you're going to stay because they know you're abroad. The day before that ran out, it's called back in to the office and they said you have four choices. Stuff's running out. You either come back full time, you come back part time, you get paid for the hours you're here, but you lose all medical benefits and all benefits completely. You go on your own personal leave or you quit. Those are the four options. Holy. And then said, wow, I can't, I can't do, I can't come back. If I come to a meeting, I'm out. I'm of no good at the job. I mean I can't even drive. I would not trust myself on any decision making just based off how cognitive difficult it was. So A's out, B's out. Because I definitely, probably need medical care still. I don't want to quit. I want to get better. I want to go back and get in the fight, get in the mission. I'll take my leave. So I burn. I started burning leave. It was kind of at that point when I remember it where it's like, my goodness, I've got really no, no job, no prospect of job. I don't think I'm going to be able to do anything this six month mark, right. So career's gone, money's probably gone. They might get rid of me before I hit my retirement age. Health is gone. I really can't function. I'm non functional. I rely on, on basically everybody. Happiness is gone, really. You know, I'm struggling to basically survive and get through a day and connect and, and get through all of that. You know, basically I, I've, I've got what, I've got nothing. And I remember I was walking and we were at a house that we are now paying out of pocket for. And you know how rent it is around that area. Car is still in transit. We're living out of one suitcase still, you know, that I had from when I went over. We literally have nothing. And I was walking near the place because I still like to walk. Even though it was painful and it was kind of raining. I said, I really got, I've got nothing. And it came to me, I said, well, what do you still have to give when you have nothing to give? When it hit me, it's like, you know, the one thing you should have been doing. Thanks. You give thanks. You literally have Nothing. But you give thanks. That hit me like a ton of bricks. Oh, my gosh, I probably have today. You know what, What I gave thanks for the day before, which was nothing. Flip the attitude right on its head. Start by giving thanks. What do you give thanks for? Well, you give thanks for, number one, that you're not on this earth for any of the above things, right? You give thanks for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You give thanks for everything that you have been given. You give thanks for the living hope that is in all of those truths. You give thanks that all of those abilities and blessings that I had been given, you know, were not mine to be had in the first place. Like, give those up. Not mine. Thank you for giving those to me for the time being. So when you have nothing left to give, you give thanks. I remember that. So I started doing that, changed my outlook. How can I now be thankful, give gratitude and have impact on other people, whether that's the doctors, whether that's other survivors. How can I still do what my real mission is in life, you know, not, not my profession? How do I do that? So I kind of, you know, put it on that and refocused everything, which is, you know, really what life is about anyways, and we should draw on that all the time. And I'm embarrassed that it took getting to the point where I had nothing to give to realize that I should have been giving thanks the entire time. So after that moment, you know, of kind of embracing that, there was a. A peace and a joy that came over that, over me and helped tremendously. And after that, you know, guess, guess what happened with everything that was going on got worse. Everything got worse. The push back, the administrative stuff, the burdens, it's like everything doubled down. It's like, great, you learned this lesson now. Now prove it to me, right? Give thanks in this. So we went back, I went back and realized, man, I gotta start papering this. Like in all good things, the only thing that moves things is papering. So I documented all my requests. I requested medical retirement. They came back and said, we'll do Social Security. They gave me all these forms and I, you know, third grade, you know, second grade, third grade reader here, filling out these forms and looking at them so I can't fill them out. I will be disclosing information that would damage national security on these forms. And they respond, well, we actually didn't read the forms. We don't know what they say, so we don't know what to do. So I'm going to look at some of the notes. So I get this right? I said, well, great, can we do workers comp? And once again, the analytical cell said, no, you won't qualify for workers comp because we'll never support it. We'll never support it because you won't hit two out of the five criteria, most of it being we won't tie this to a work related incident. So you're not going to get the workers comp at that. At that level. They also said, we really don't want to give you benefits because if we gave you benefits, that would set a bad precedent. We'd have to give benefits to anybody that basically walked by the Coke machine and said they felt something. That's what I was told. So put in a different request. After my wife was able to look at the actual details of the Havana act that was passed in 2021, actually very well written, they did a great job of it. That basically said, hey, treat those that were impacted by these asymmetrical threats and directed energy as a combat injury and utilize the agency regulations, the retirement regulation of 1964, along with the Agency act of 1948, bounce those kind of back off of each other and treat these like a combat injury. Which it actually was really well done. And not to say anything about our other organizations in the government, but the agency is not Department of Transportation. We do things that are very different and our regulations should reflect that and benefits should reflect that and other things should reflect that. But they chose to ignore that Havana act and try and shoehorn it into everything else along those lines. So not really treating it as a combat injury or anything of that nature. So we submitted additional paperwork along those lines saying, you know, my wife helped a lot with that because, like, you know, obviously with where I was saying, this is the Havana act, this is what it says. We request that you follow federal law and give us one of, you know, these, these things to follow that and xyz, this is what's authorized by the director to do. This is the bare minimum. So welcome. Something in between was informed after that that, hey, good news. It looks like, you know, we can follow this aspect of it and, you know, we can retire you with what you've earned and the years you've had. Okay, great. It should be good in four to five weeks. So about five weeks later, I get a phone call saying, hey, come on in, I want to talk to you again about all of these things. So I'm like, great, finally we might have a little bit of resolution. I can go and focus on healing. Because this is becoming just terrible. Not tenable. I can't function. I can't keep doing this. I need to focus on getting what I need and rest. Because at this point in time, I know I'm not going to get better like I just had. Just like we're six months in and I'm still non functional. What it turned out though, was when I walk into the analytical cell once again, the analytical cells in charge of all of this. It's all analysts in this analytical cell that are in charge of all of these things. The investigation, hr, legal, all of these things are together and they come in and they say, yeah, about that memo that was supposed to be signed by the director, we yanked it. We yanked it. We don't think it applies. I said, well, it does. I have the regulations with me. Would you like me to read them for you? No, we don't want you to read the regulations. We don't think it applies. And we yanked it. Holy. So you can imagine where I was at that point. Just really upset, angry. I said, my goodness, you guys, you guys are treating me worse than our adversaries. The adversaries. The adversaries showed they actually paid probably the greatest compliment ever to take me off the battlefield that way. Now, I lost a lot of respect for them in a professional manner because it was very cowardly. However, they at least respected me and others enough to mount such an operation like that. You guys, on the other hand, are work are far worse. The injuries you're creating, the betrayal is far worse than anything any of the adversaries could have ever done to us. I mean, I was upset, I was hot. I could imagine I was betrayed.

[Sean Ryan]

They are willing to let you die?

[AJ]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Slow death.

[Sean Ryan]

Just so that they can continue their fucking lies.

[AJ]

Yeah.

[Sean Ryan]

So when in 2003, we just talked about this.

[AJ]

Yep. So I left. I did.

[Sean Ryan]

It's insane.

[AJ]

I get the CIA, I get a

[Sean Ryan]

Central Intelligence Agency phone call.

[AJ]

Saying, you've got to come back. Okay, I'll come back. My mind was like, they know I was upset. They probably think that I might be a threat to myself or others, that type of thing. Right? Because they knew I was upset. Literally, they had taken away all of my earthly hope at that time. Gone. The light at the end of the tunnel I was hoping for was a train. They took it all away. So I get a call, go back, and I thought they were going to talk to me about that, say, look, we know you're upset. You know, let's talk this Through. Instead, I get hauled in and two security officers interrogate me about that meeting. I explained to them everything that happened, why I was upset, what got me to that point. And they were actually very sympathetic. And they're like, geez man, we're sorry. I said, gents, I know you guys are busy and you have way more important things than to deal with workplace meetings that you know are a bit contentious. Why are you really here? And they said, well, you had said some things in the meeting and people were concerned that you were upset enough to go to the seventh floor, which is the C suite of the Agency director level, go to Congress Oversight and tell them about this, or go to the press. And we just want to remind you that you can't do any of those. That was the whole purpose of them coming back in. So after that, we submitted again a memo to HR saying the Analytical Cell is in violation of the Havana act federal law for XYZ purposes. Request once again that you follow the Havana act and the Retirement Act 64 and the Agency act of 48. Here are the clauses, here's everything that is spelled out on what you're able to do, the authorizations. So we were once going to formally request. Here are all the addendums, here are all my medical stuff about that. And submitted that to HR throughout this whole time too. The Analytical Cell was demanding my medical records. And I remember asking them, I was like, great, are you going to use that to try and help and get us benefit or help or anything like that? And they said, no, we don't have the ability to analyze that. We're just going to give it to our analytical targeters for their investigation. Really. Okay, that was just an aside. So we did that. Two days after I submitted that. And my wife obviously helped a ton with it and some of my colleagues did as well, and proofing it and making sure we were cogent in that. I get a call from the HR people and they said, we're terribly sorry, but the Analytical Cell lawyer said, I'm not allowed to talk to you anymore. I'm not allowed to help you, I'm not allowed to communicate with you. You're only allowed to go through the Analytical Cell and only through your lawyer. I didn't have a lawyer. Tried to get a lawyer, but they wouldn't give him an NDA to sign. Despite repeated emails, repeated asking, they never contacted him that signed an NDA and actually get the ability to represent me. So I had no lawyer anyways.

[Sean Ryan]

What are you supposed to do?

[AJ]

Yeah, it's the great question. I think the whole intent was we had no ability to do anything to isolate and really be kind of at that mercy of that Analytical Cell. So then two weeks after that, I get a phone call from the Analytical cell saying, we're cutting off all care at Walter Reed. We're not ruining any medical care for you. So where am I supposed to go? What am I supposed to do? We don't know. We don't know. Good luck. So, yeah, once again, no job, no future, no medical, any of. Any of that.

[Sean Ryan]

So it literally left you to die.

[AJ]

It basically was the 26th of May ish. Around that time frame. Right after that, we compiled and submitted the IG request, or IG complaint official formal, documenting everything that had gone up to that point. That weekend, after submitting the IG complaint, the formal IG complaint request to go to Congress with it, I was hitting everything, the wickets, as best as I could, administratively wise. Apparently. That weekend after I submitted the IG complaint, the Analytical Cell, a physician called over to Walter Reed and demanded that they provide all of my medical records to include my mental health records. Demanded it. If they didn't provide all of my medical records, they would send security to my house.

[Sean Ryan]

What?

[AJ]

Unknown. Why? To do what? I don't know. Isn't that a. Yeah, it's, it's, it's just.

[Sean Ryan]

So now they're threatening.

[AJ]

Now it's threatening and harassment again. And they're threatening, you know, a care provider.

[Sean Ryan]

Is that even legal?

[AJ]

I would.

[Sean Ryan]

But isn't that a HIPAA violation?

[AJ]

I would think there's probably some, some legal aspects that should be looked at with that.

[Sean Ryan]

Have you looked at suing them?

[AJ]

I don't like the litigious route. It's just not who I am. But sometimes it's the only thing these people understand. So I wouldn't, you know, rule anything of that nature out. This was told to me by Walter Reed later in the same conversation I had with Walter Reed. They admitted to receiving. Well, first of all, the, the folks at Walter Reed had meetings with the office with this Analytical Cell every other week. I was like, are you. Every other week you're meeting with.

[Sean Ryan]

So they're surveilling you with this.

[AJ]

Why would you be meeting with it? So I wrote down and said, officially request all meeting notes that you had with my office, the big office there. The agenda for those meetings, what was discussed, if any of our case material was discussed, of course that was ignored by Walter Reed. But they admitted to meeting every other week with the Analytical Cell people. They admitted to be receiving guidance from holy. From the agency on what to say and what to write in our medical records. My. One of the physicians admitted to me that he was scared, he was frightened. And I asked from what he's like, from, he's like, I don't even know stuff up top. He's like, I'm afraid, I'm afraid to write down what needs to be written down in your report. So there was the influence on that. And that wasn't the only place. The second regional medical facility, a lot of the technicians also admitted to receiving pressure on what to say and what to write in our medical records. So it's not the only place that there was pressure on that.

[Sean Ryan]

So. So medical records are inaccurate?

[AJ]

I would say yes. I would say yes. Or probably inaccurate.

[Sean Ryan]

So everything for you, not only for you, but for anybody that gets hit with this in the future.

[AJ]

That's right.

[Sean Ryan]

Or anybody after you. Holy shit. They don't even have a, they don't even have an accurate set of data.

[AJ]

You nailed it.

[Sean Ryan]

Holy shit.

[AJ]

You nailed it, Sean.

[Sean Ryan]

Because all for a fucking lie.

[AJ]

And it goes beyond, obviously, you know, we're from the same cloth. This impacts other people, this impacts unfortunately those who come later, that this data doesn't exist, that the truth doesn't exist. We can't draw from it and come up with better treatment protocols right off the bat. If there are, are some of those that do exist. Yeah, we'll definitely, we'll kind of hit back on some of that when we discuss some of the, where we are with that and some of the other issues. So after the IG complaint, the IG calls me back in and they basically, there's one unclassified part of that that said they found it credible and that there were serious discrepancies that negatively impacted the operations administration of the agency. So that was, that's a big win. After that I get called back in and at this point in time I have some of my trusted colleagues going with me just to record when they allow it. They didn't always allow someone else to be in the room with me, even though I asked. Because I still am struggling a lot with absorbing and taking in information and processing it. There were times I wouldn't allow anybody else in the room. Quick choose a meal deal with McValue. The five dollar McChicken meal deal, the six dollar McDouble meal deal, or the new seven dollar Daily Double meal deal, each with its own small fries, drink and Four Piece McNuggets. There's actually no rush. I'm just excited for McDonald's for a limited time only. Presence of participation may vary. Not Valder make delivery.

[Sean Ryan]

Why. Why did you go back? Why would you? Especially after that meeting with the. With the analytical cell. The I.G. yep, whatever. Why would you. I'm just curious. Why would you go back after that? Why would you give these people the time of day? Why would you. Why would you have anything to do with that institution?

[AJ]

I think because I had no other real choice. I had to try and see it through to get something, you know, not only just for myself, but there is a strong desire to try and help other people because I knew other people were going through this. I was senior. A lot of junior officers did not have that network. And I was able to network with a lot of my colleagues and friends. Without them, I would have never gotten a lot of the pay, the benefits, anything. They were their godsends on the operational side of the house. They did everything they could, but this Analytical Cell had all of the power there. So I was brought back in and they said, all right, here's your choice. You can accept your retirement, which you've earned, or you can do this other option, which is what my colleague described as a six part tragedy ending in the game of Plinko. There was no guidelines for it. There was no rubric on how they would make decisions that you would qualify for these programs. This is what, you know, kind of got you into that other care program. And some of the benefits, they hadn't started that up. Even though it was written by law that they established this, they had not established any of that. So, you know, it was pretty readily apparent. The only option I really had was to get the absolute bare minimum, which is, you know, probably less than a lot of folks normally get for their retirement. Plus, you know, I don't get the extra years I would have been able to serve where this thing was just terrible and participating. That would only justify what they were doing. You know, by saying, I'm saying this program I justified as being real and not wrong. It was extraordinarily wrong in how they were interpreting law and trying to force people into doing that. Like I said, we're not the Department of Transportation. Nothing against them, but our injuries are very different. And it requires what we have already in place to. To. To do that. And they weren't following that. They were taking those regulations and interpreting it in the very least beneficial way to us. Instead of going to the max, you could have gone all the way to the max and it Wasn't hard to interpret it that way. And I asked, I said, why are you not doing this? And once again, they said, well, there's no precedent for it and we don't want to set a precedent. We don't want to do anything that was not done before. I said, that makes no sense. How do you do anything if it wasn't ever done before? How do you do anything new? This is new. I said, no, that was coming from the Analytical Cell legal system. Right. So they didn't want to set the precedent that we could actually apply this and do this. Followed by why don't you guys just make it policy? Why don't you do that? Well, we can't do that. It'll take years. I said, well, point me to the policies that you're using right now to say, I don't get that. Well, we can't. There's no policy. This is just what we think. So my wife had kind of finished up, did her defense of her or her doctoral thesis early so she could get a job, got a job, she moved away. I finished treatment and kind of waited for them to say goodbye. It was the, the goodbye was extremely humbling. A lot of people showed up,

[Sean Ryan]

man.

[AJ]

Later I learned, when we're kind of talking about this later, I learned from folks that they had actually explained away my personal case to the White Houses that I had a very rare and debilitating pre existing condition that was discovered at Walter Reed.

[Sean Ryan]

A pre existing. Which is probably bred in your medical records because they forced Walter Reed to write it.

[AJ]

Well, I mean, I would have liked to have known that that exists. I don't know how I made it this far in, in all of our, you know, pokes and prods through 18 years old joining the military till now and not having found that. But obviously that was a lie. And I'm not alone. People, as I said, that they have been told the exact same thing that they were basically told, briefed up that it was preexisting conditions. It's a lie. It's a complete lie. Others have said that people even in this Analytical Cell have said they will willingly lie directly to Congress in order to protect the organization. Because the organization must be protected at all costs. And whatever we say must be final. Our authority cannot be questioned. Holy. By multiple people who have said that in multiple meetings, told me later that was, that was a major factor in why the decisions were made.

[Sean Ryan]

Wow.

[AJ]

So that's where we left off. And since that time I've been really just focused on the medical Side doing my own medical, trying to talk to other survivors and kind of give them hope. Although I still stay a little bit relatively isolated and insular. It's hard to talk to people. It's just hard with the bandwidth. It takes a lot out, but it's, you know, I gladly do it. I'm fortunate. That's the problem with this is I'm fortunate I had the years. But what about these poor first tour officers that are, you know, possibly impacted what they don't have, that they're at the mercy of what's in place now? And I've heard it's gotten better, but I don't really believe that they still have in place the restrictions that, you know, fall under the Department of Labor where you, you can't work, you can't do anything if you still want your benefits. And if you do anything at all, you have to basically give them a cost estimate of what that was. So say you want to go and you know, paint your parents room or something, help them out. You'd have to submit to the Department of Labor an estimate of what that would cost a painter to do. So they can dock that from your benefits, from your pay. You're not allowed to go to medical outside of a certain area past your home. So they're in prison. A lot of them want to at least try and do things to, you know, try and feel normal, to contribute to society, do those types of small jobs even it was. But they can't because if they do, they'll jeopardize their benefits that way. So, you know, not only are they in the prison of their own illnesses or not illnesses, of their injuries, they're also in the prison of the system that's been created where I know we can do better on that. And I feel terrible for anybody that comes after and the officers that are currently in that system. I know we can do better if we just follow our own regulations and rules or at least look at it in a way that is actually beneficial to our officers. And I know Department of War is also. They have to wrap their arms around this as well. A lot of uniformed individuals are also struggling with this as well. So we can do better. And I think that, you know, that's kind of where, at least where I left off with the administration piece and then I continued to fight a little bit more with, with some of the more behind the scenes political areas that, you know, we can kind of touch on, on next.

[Sean Ryan]

I just, I can't, I can't believe they told you they Would willing willingly lie to Congress to protect the institution? I can't believe they said that.

[AJ]

Yes.

[Sean Ryan]

Multiple times.

[AJ]

Yes.

[Sean Ryan]

There's no accountability in this country.

[AJ]

Not at that level.

[Sean Ryan]

That's likely every single institution,

[AJ]

as I said. Yeah. It's not, unfortunately, just isolated there. I think it's an endemic issue. This is just a symptom of that. What we've gone through and what others have experienced with. It's just a symptom of that.

[Sean Ryan]

There's no truth there.

[AJ]

No, it's. It's. It's a complete defilement of what that building exists to do. What's written on that left wall. They should paint over it or knock it down if they're not going to do it, which. That whole building is built on that. And it'll crumble. Because if you don't have that truth, what good are you? That's the only currency, man.

[Sean Ryan]

Gives me chills, Man. I feel horrible for you.

[AJ]

Well, thanks. But I feel, you know, for everybody else that comes.

[Sean Ryan]

How they treated you, how they treated everybody else. What do you think this is going to do to their recruitment?

[AJ]

Well, that probably is part of the reason why they tried to, you know, keep it down or keep it kind of covered up. Just to not impact that. To not impact.

[Sean Ryan]

Do you think they know what the weapon was? Do you think they know? Do you think the.

[AJ]

It's a really good question. I think they. Maybe. I'll answer it this way. I think they would. Would know if they looked and if they did a proper investigation. If they did what we know is right, and not have this insular group of analysts, but have an interagency team that has all of the abilities to reach into their organizations and grab that expertise and pull these things. Or just ask Claude. Right. But they didn't do that. It was not done. I was never really fully interviewed, except once by a. By someone who, you know, was.

[Sean Ryan]

Who shouldn't have been interviewing you.

[AJ]

Yeah, it's the best way to put it. So it's never formally interviewed. There's no. None of that. So we know what right looks like when it comes to investigations. That wasn't it. That was not done. So you hear them say, well, we've turned over every stone. We've spent thousands of man hours, you know, doing this. Maybe they did, but they weren't looking where they should have been. They weren't using everything that's out there. Maybe it was by purpose.

[Sean Ryan]

Maybe thousands of hours covering everything you were trying to get at up or anybody else.

[AJ]

Or. Or maybe they were incompetent and didn't know how to do it.

[Sean Ryan]

Unbelievable.

[AJ]

But we know what right looks like. And that wasn't. It wasn't an interagency team of experts. It wasn't drawing from all of those. And in fact, when we kind of touch upon some of the other aspects and reports, those experts were never even listened to. They published their thoughts and what they assessed to be happening, and they were ignored.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, no matter what comes out of there now, you can't trust it. That is, There's a possibility that it's a lie.

[AJ]

Yeah, absolutely. And so what good is that place if that's its sole function? I would. When I've met with, with members of. Of Congress or whoever who is dependent on the products produced by the organization, I would ask him a question. I'd say, do you trust what you hear from the organization 100% empirically? Do you trust what they say? And I said, I don't want you to answer that because I don't want to put you on the spot, so don't answer it. None of them would ever answer it, but their eyes would always tell what they were thinking.

[Sean Ryan]

That in itself is a national security concern.

[AJ]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Sean Ryan]

A big one.

[AJ]

Absolutely. Which, like I said, we talked about with it being.

[Sean Ryan]

Indeed, we're saying that. We're saying that the CIA is a national security concern.

[AJ]

I would say the organization itself isn't. But the people that are there that are maneuvering it in that direction are the organization. The mission itself is good in the way it should be. If it was focused on the mission. I mean, we're good at what we do. I'd say the analytical piece, you probably would do just as well. Flipping a coin or having, you know, Punxsutawney Phil from the Groundhog to, To, you know, kind of guess what's. What's going to happen. But the organization itself, I think, does have a role to play in our national security. However, I think it is being hijacked by a group of people who don't understand what that mission is. They don't understand what is written on those walls in that sacred area of that building. They don't understand what truth is, what sacrifice is, and what taking care of our agents means. They don't understand that and they don't care about that. So I think that the people that have hijacked it, that have gone along through other administrations and have basically kept that thing going and protected each other, I think that's the problem. And I think you'd probably Be able to find that same group subset of people in all of the organizations that we're kind of talking about. That's the threat.

[Sean Ryan]

I mean, I think everybody's seeing this play out in real time right now, I think so.

[AJ]

Should we take a break?

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah, let's take a break. Aging is inevitable. And if you're anything like me, you feel it a little more every year. Sore knees, tight joints. Recovery takes longer than it used to. We can't stop the clock, but we can take care of ourselves. That's why I take Bub's Naturals Collagen Peptides. I mix it into my tea every morning. It blends right in. No taste, no gritty texture. It's simple. I've been using Bubs collagen for a long time and I genuinely notice the difference. My knees feel better, My skin looks better. I recover faster after workouts. I stick with Bubs because I trust the company. Their collagen is NSF certified for sport and sourced from grass fed cattle. So it's clean tested and exactly what they say it is. And there's a bigger mission here. BUBS was founded in Honor of Navy Seal Glenn Bubb Dougherty. And 10% of all profits go towards helping veterans transition back to civilian life. So you're not just supporting your joints and recovery. You're supporting people who served this country. If you're ready to upgrade your daily routine with Bubs Naturals Collagen, head to Bubsnaturals.com SRS and use code Shawn for 20% off your order. Again, that's Bubsnaturals.com SARS and use code Sean for 20% off your order. Take care of your body. It's the only one you've got. Do you feel it that something's off? This is propaganda as a weapon. The revolutionary audio docu series it's essential

[AJ]

for the experiment that you continue.

[Sean Ryan]

Hosted by Sean Ryan, they're called Psyops. Is now available to you for free. The series provides an in depth look at how these psyops work from conversations with whistleblowers, experts, historians and more like and subs. In each episode we look at a different method of psychological operations, how they've evolved and how they are being deployed. You'll learn about everything from Russian troll farms, vague ghosts in the jungles of Vietnam, the CIA's involvement in Hollywood. If you've ever wondered who's really pulling the strings, it's time to find out. Target Intelligence Psyop an ironclad original hosted by Sean Ryan Listen today, wherever you get your podcast or watch the enhanced version on YouTube at. This is Ironclad. All right, AJ let's move into where it stands now. 2024 to 2026 time frame and I'd like to start with the device. January 2026, Pentagon DHS purchased a backpack size device in an undercover op for eight figures amidst pulsed RF energy. Russian components still being tested and matches NASA's most plausible mechanism.

[AJ]

I'd be curious what Claude has to say about the empirical evidence associated with that and how we can continue to deny the reality. I think that couple that with what you had read earlier about the Norwegian scientist. That narrative is starting to unravel. A lot of what was kind of put, they put their hat on, hung their hat on was the fact that this technology doesn't exist, that there can't be non thermal microwave radiation that damages a person. That's kind of what they, they hung their hat on. Or at least that was an argument that they had that Western scientists, you know, said it really wasn't a thing, which is interesting. I mean we talked about Frey, who actually was interested in the effects of, of non thermal microwave damage on people. Then we see the Russians who believe they could use that to disturb the nervous system of individuals and reports that our own organizations had put back in the 70s. So you see the historical aspect of all of these things saying no, no, no, this is something to look at, you know, the poor monkeys in Project Bazaar. I think they would argue differently that this is a real thing as well. But I think when that came out in the press and when we see the Norwegian thing just recently come out, that narrative is starting to crumble. Their three legged stool. Two of those legs are already gone and we'll talk about the third leg that needs to be gone as well. I think when we kind of back up and see what kind of that narrative has been, we go back to 2020, the National Academy of Sciences, they looked at evidence from, from the scientists, clinicians, and I think they compiled a group of, of survivors and they concluded that directed energy, energy pulse, microwave was a most likely cause for what had taken place with the Cuba cases in 2016. So that's in 2020, in 2022. In January, the CIA provided the interim report that the Analytical Cell basically produced that the health results are not the result of a foreign adversary's global campaign against our officers. Remember we just talked about the fact that I was called in and said, look, we're going to cover this up. It's got to Be the building or over the people. That's the result of that. When they said, no, not a global campaign adversary is not likely behind this and nothing to really kind of see here. However, they did allow the clause saying, well, we can't rule it out still that some of the cases might have been impacted or part of an operation. So there was that little bit of elastic cause. This drew a response from oversight saying, wait, wait, wait, hold on a second. This is literally counter to what you had briefed us to in private, that this is an issue that we must look at. Now you're kind of saying this. So oversight themselves was raising an eyebrow on that. And they also were like, why are you releasing this report now when there is an expert panel report going to be released in 10 days? Why don't you link these two up? So 10 days later, the experts panel, IC experts panel of all of scientists and everybody else looking at it, they basically reaffirmed their findings from 2020, saying that pulsed electromagnetic energy, particularly in the radio frequency range, plausibly explains the core characteristics, although gaps still exist. So they basically said, wait, no, we believe what we said in 2020, despite what the ICA, the interim ICA said 10 days prior, we still believe this. So there's already starting to be that, that division and these are the experts, these are the ones that are actually the scientists, the medical doctors, the ones that are doing a real investigation on this. They're not, they're not analysts that are looking at stuff on a computer screen. In March of 23, there was an updated ICA, which is an intelligence community assessment, doubling down further on the January 22nd, ICA basically saying that foreign government is very unlikely to be involved in the attacks. So they're further kind of going down the path of not foreign adversaries involved in this. I still think they left a little bit of room saying that, well, maybe not for all of them, but it was clear that they were going down the this isn't real, no foreign air adversaries behind this. Then In March of 24, we see the NIH published their report that was in JAMA, Basically saying they couldn't repeat the Penn study and that they really couldn't say this was real. Now I looked at the supplements and I looked at the data and I'm not an expert and I'm obviously my brain is not there and I could look at those supplements, which is real data, and say, wait a second, that doesn't match the text at all. That data. I can see it. There's Stuff in there. There's stuff in this data that is clearly not in the, in the text. Right. And it's. There's something way off with this. That study was canceled six months later, five or six months later, because the internal review board at the NIH found coercion of participants. However, that. That JAMA article still exists. I don't know why that hasn't been pulled down. That's, it's, it's very interesting. But if I was Dr. Bhattacharya, I would, I would definitely drill down and find out what happened and what was going on to make sure that that organization was not used, whether wittingly or unwittingly, by the intelligence community or US Government to basically put out covert influence. I would drill down if I was him on that. So I think it's fascinating that that study was then retracted. Not retracted, but canceled five months later because of coercion. Interesting to note, too, once again, history rhymes. We go back full circle almost to what we talked about at the very beginning, which was the Moscow Signal, after Ambassador Stossel pitched the fit and told the embassy staff and got out, and the papers did go crazy a little bit, and there were investigations. They did launch a study, USG study that Johns Hopkins was kind of the head of. Their finding was basically, microwaves don't harm people, nothing to see here, and basically shut everything down. So I think that rhymes a lot with what happened with the Moscow Signal incident as well. And that was kind of the third leg of the stool is they reference that later on in an ICA saying, this can't be real because NIH says it's not real. So you're basing that third leg of the stool on a study that I would say is fraudulent or coerced. So there's no more legs in the stool left, but we'll keep going. In November of 24, I attended a unclassified meeting with, at that time, the Biden National Security Council in the Situation Room. This was a very interesting point in our attempts to try and bring this to light and help others. They had brought us and asked us to come in. You know, we paid out of pocket because this is important, and tell them how best to move forward and to give the new administration, the Trump 47 administration, talking points and how to address this issue. That was what they told us was going to be about. And I obviously was like, yes, very hard. But I think this is important. I want to, to, you know, give this new administration, you know, leg up on this. It was Very interesting, though, when they brought us all in there, there's only a handful of us, and they said, we believe you. We believe you. We know it's true. We know we're being lied to. We're extremely sorry. We've never seen treatment of people injured so badly before. You know, help us create some points to give to the new administration. We would actually like to put something out in the press about this. Great. So we went through the meeting. It was about five hours long. It was. It was a marathon. But we highlighted all of the things. A lot of things they didn't know, and a lot of things to look at and take on board. So all in all, it's a very critical kind of moment because that's the first time anybody in a senior position or in that level said, we believe this is real. Help us kind of figure this out. The public thing got squashed. The National Security Advisor at the time got to his desk and immediately was. Was killed. Never, never made it out the. The public acknowledgment of that. So that was. That was immediately killed on that one. Right after that, Very, very closely on the heels of that, we see In December of 2024, HIPC chairman Rick Crawford publishing their interim investigative report, which basically stated that the ICA lacked analytical integrity. The ica had obstructed HPSI's investigation. The House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, the IC experts panel, was more plausible, like we had talked about, and that a foreign adversary was likely behind some of the incidents. That is, in a nutshell, based off of the. The investigation that oversight had done independent of anything else. And that was the conclusion that they had reached on that independently, on their own. Then. See, so, January 25th. So just what, two months after HPSI comes out with their interim findings, Basically, they. They kind of triple down again on the ica. But this time there are two organizations that change their opinions of it and basically judges that there's a roughly even chance a foreign actor has used a novel weapon or prototype. And the other component says there's a roughly even chance a foreign actor has developed the novel weapon. So now we're starting to get a little bit of dissension. And this is interesting timing because what was the report that I think the news article said was that this was purchased when, at the very end of the Biden administration, which would have been right about the time that we met with Biden nsc, right about the time, you know, the HPSI released their long investigation on that. But what's the most interesting I think about this is this device 2024 at the end of the Biden administration and this ICA was pushed out in January of 25. They knew about that. They knew about this device, yet they still pushed out this. Nothing to see here. No foreign adversary involved in that. Despite. You would think that if there was some integrity, you'd say, wow, we need to reevaluate and look at everything now that this is. Let's wait and take a look at this and see what's going on. You know, maybe we need to revisit what we thought was true. Not at all. They doubled down and pushed that out and the NSC was, they were a bit confused on why it was even pushed out in the first place. No one asked for it. So I'm not so sure even that I see knew about some of that. But it's interesting because they did push that out and they did it knowingly. And I have a problem with that because if there is an intent, a knowing intent to deceive the public, whether that's through the intelligence, intelligence community assessment, the ICAs that we talked about, whether that is through medical records, whether that's through influencing any sort of publications or media, that's Covid. That's covert influence against the American public. There's hardly a greater sin when it comes to activity from the organization than to collect or influence the American people. Collect on or influence the American people. That is a cardinal sin you cannot recover from and rightfully so. But I, I think there needs to be a serious look at whether that took place. I would argue it did, especially in light of, of what you just read and the timing that we just went over for that. I also got a chance to sit down with the, the Trump NSC shortly around or after that time period, about March, April time, time frame. Just to, just to briefly talk about my story. I couldn't, couldn't be in, in there because it was a very high level classified discussion. But you know, they were very, they were very, you know, moved and, and were adamant that they wanted to, to help and do something about that. I also got to sit down with a closed door session with both sides of hpsi. So it was pretty full. So both, you know, the minority and majority members and there wasn't a real division among them. They, they, I think they generally viewed this as a bipartisan issue that's behind closed doors. Obviously in public politics seems to take a different bend. But there's I think some willingness and oversight on both sides to address these issues to Just this issue. But obviously they hit headwinds when it comes to, you know, getting the truth out, which you say. Why? Why? That doesn't make any sense. Why is that? But I think that's where we are. But I can't speak highly enough about some of the efforts done by oversight, especially by Chairman Crawford. And I know that he doesn't have a lot of support because it is sticking your neck out and trying to get the truth out there. But he really has been focused on this effort even when it's been very unpopular, because he does stick up for the truth. And in the end, if our Shakespeare has taught us anything, the truth doth out from the Merchant of Venice. But they're still on it, they're still fighting. So there is hope on that, despite a lot of the pressure to go against that. But I think it is really kind of important to look at some of the timeline and some of the stuff that's been pushed out there for the American public and how, especially with these last couple reports, those, that, that three legged stool has no, no legs left. And it's beyond absurd. I think now that we continue to say that, that this isn't, this isn't real.

[Sean Ryan]

It's absurd. All right.

[AJ]

Yeah, I,

[Sean Ryan]

this is a scary interview. I mean, there are weapons that are, that are frying our brains. The CIA is lying about it. The CIA told you they would willingly lie to Congress. That means you can't trust anything that comes out of their mouths from this point forward. Nothing.

[AJ]

I would agree. I would agree.

[Sean Ryan]

Who is running that? Where does the directive come from? It's obviously, I mean, it's, it's, it's a rogue organization. How many rogue organizations do we have? Are they all rogue organizations?

[AJ]

I think it.

[Sean Ryan]

Could we trust anything?

[AJ]

I think it goes back to, you know, kind of that accountability piece as well. No, we can't, because there's no accountability. Can you. Is everything that comes out of the organizations a lie? No, absolutely not.

[Sean Ryan]

How do we know that?

[AJ]

How do you know? How do you know it's a lie or a truth? You don't, you don't. And that's the worst part about it is you don't know. And it tarnishes the truth. And everybody second guesses. I don't think that there's much trust from the American people in the organizations anymore because they see all of this playing out and there shouldn't be. The American people should be very upset with what's going on. They deserve better. They demand better. They demand the best. And they're not getting it. So, yeah, I think that, you know, kind of leads kind of towards the way forwards. And how do we.

[Sean Ryan]

And who are they serving? That's the real question.

[AJ]

Themselves, I think.

[Sean Ryan]

Who, who is themselves? The director.

[AJ]

I don't. I think it is. And I, And I know you hear this bandied about and everybody kind of complains about it, about this blob that has been called the deep state. And I think that I don't really like that term so much, but I think it's a. This group of people who exist to basically kind of serve themselves in that organization that basically takes care of them. It's a nanny state within the nanny state. They don't do it for the people that are kind of involved in this. They do it for themselves. They do it to protect the organization. So the organization protects them, furthers their own interests, their own careers, popularity, whatever that might be. Is it everybody in government? No, but they tend to protect each other. They tend to cover each other's backs. They tend to promote each other, because that's the same. They have the same interest. And then I think you have the majority who just try to get through the day. They don't really are. They're not really interested in making things better. They just kind of do their job and have all of the benefits. And then I think you have the people who, you know, really do care and are busy trying to do the work, but they get abused. They get abused. They're really trying to do the work. They're trying to prosecute the mission. They are getting up in the morning and saying, how can I benefit the American people? Be good stewards of their money, execute the mission, protect, you know, or fulfill the oath that I, That I took when I raised my right hand. They are out there, but they're not taken care of. They're not. They're used and abused and, and discarded. The, you know, you see it, you see the people that do do that and do good, they're. They're passed over. They're the mavericks out there that aren't protected. You have to protect the mavericks in the organization, the ones that push things forward. They're not protected. They're kicked out, they're shunned because no one wants to hear that because that's destabilizing the status quo and rocking the boat. We just want this. We want to protect our fiefdom and our power. And I thought about that. It's like when they say, well, we have to protect the organization, protect it from Who. Who are you protecting this from? You're not worried about tarnishing your reputation with the American public that's already gone. Who are you protecting it from? Why are you trying to protect it and have the last word and the final authority in all of this? And the only answer I could come up with is they're protecting themselves from other organizations who are just trying to do the same thing, gobble up power, gobble up resources, have that political intrigue and drama just for. For the sake of that. They've so. They've gone so far away from what it is to be a servant of this country and what it is to be a representative and the burden that goes with it. It's not a privilege. It's a burden. And I think that most people have forgotten. My first XO told me that that is. Leadership is a burden. I didn't understand it at first until, you know, you're leading Marines and you say, oh, man, he's right. This is a burden. Every day is a burden. You don't get a bad day. You don't get to. You don't get to misfire. It's a burden. But I think people don't understand that. I think they see it as their privilege and right, and they view it as their means to take care of their. Their ends. So that I think that mentality and ethos has to completely reverse. And I. And I don't know how to do that, Sean. I don't know if it's possible. I don't know. We talk about kind of the way forward on things. What I'd really like to see is people make good on the promises that they've made, especially on this issue. I mean, we saw Director Ratcliffe, DNI Gabbard, and their confirmation hearings talk about the fact that they wanted to get back to mission first. Right. Core mission. Core mission. Core mission. Get rid of the bias and analysis and investigate this issue. I would be very curious at where they stand on any of the promises that they have made in that confirmation hearing. I know the director hasn't called or talked to any survivors. No one's asked us how we can better protect our own people or, you know, medically help people or administratively. No one's. No one's reached out. No one's asked about that. Director DNI Gabbard, I know she has formed those. The dig teams. I know they are looking at this press report has been that they are working out. There's a report. I know if that report comes out, it's probably no, it's going to mirror what HPSE said. I'm confident of it. I haven't seen it, I haven't heard anything about it, but I'm just confident of it. If they are looking for the truth, it will mirror what HPSI came out with. My concern is that. That it gets watered down or covered up as well. And if it does, then that's another indicator that this is still trying to be tamped down. I would also obviously want those that are listening to this, that have sworn an oath to the American people in the Constitution to honor that. Get off the fence. If you're on the fence, you're wrong. Pick a side. Get back to truth and getting that out and what you're supposed to be doing. And let that be the conviction every single day that you wake up, especially for our colleagues, you know, in the agency. Look at those walls and just follow that. Look to the left, look to the right as you cross over the seal. Then you won't go wrong. For the survivors out there in both the Agency and Department of War, I want them to have hope still. Don't give up hope. There are still good people that are trying to get the truth out, just like you are with your platform. People are fighting for truth. Don't give up hope. This has been hard, but hopefully even seeing some of the progress that I've made medically will maybe give some of them hope. I couldn't have done this, like I said a year ago. So don't give up hope. Keep fighting. And you're seen those survivors that think you're alone and are unseen. No, we see you. Everybody sees you. You're there. You exist, you know, so don't just realize that. I think that's important for folks.

[Sean Ryan]

Man. AJ We've been through a lot.

[AJ]

Not as much as some, but go back to when you have nothing to give, give thanks. That was a lesson learned a lot also through what does it really mean to have trials in life? Why do we have trials and. What do they do? How do we view them? And there's probably not many things out there that are more important than struggles and trials. And I'm actually very grateful for those. I think that they serve several different purposes. One is they're varied. Trials are varied to refine some of our weak points so that we're complete. They strip away, I think, any connections we have to worldly kind of distractions that kind of creep in it. It gets us closer to what our purpose is by stripping away some of those other things. It Gets us closer, obviously, to God and our faith and reliance on him and not on our own strength. And I think it also builds an empathy and sympathy for others that are going through that. I would never have had the ability to relate to people who have lost health, lost wealth, lost happiness, lost a lot of those things. I would have been impossible. Now I'm a little more sympathetic and able to relate with that. So that's an important aspect, I think, of. Of trials and why they exist. And they do shape us and mold us and transform us into what we're supposed to be. And you usually don't get that through easy times. I mean, I wasn't tough enough or good enough to go spec war. But, you know, you go through Hell Week and it's called Hell Week, I think, for a reason and not Paradise Week. It transforms you, it hardens you. It brings out who you were meant to be. And you die to yourself, I think, a little bit in that. And once you realize that you're already dead, then you'll become the person you were meant to be. And when you die to those selfishness and when you die to those things, then you realize what you really are and what you're supposed to be. The first part of Peter is a great example of that. I think it really lays out, you know, what it means to have hope, what it means to go through trials. And it's something to just kind of hold on to. And they're good. They're good,

[Sean Ryan]

man. As life goes on, you really realize the only real truth is in the Bible, and that is it.

[AJ]

It's exactly right. And truth right now is something that the world needs. I think people are tired of the lies. I think they're tired of the entertainment value through lies. I think people are. Are really seeking that truth and hope that goes with it. I think it was said that one of the most searched terms last year on the Internet search engines was hope. People are searching for hope and there's only really one place to find that it's not in, man. It's like, where do you place your hope? Do you place it in your finances? Do you place it in your health? Do you place it in your portfolio or your stock market, your property? Do you place it in sports, your sports team? Where do you really place hope? There's only one place to hope that or one place to put that. There are two things. I think that when you look at things in a biblical view versus a worldview, you couldn't get more difference with the same word. And that would be fear and hope. In the biblical context, fear and hope are very constructive. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Fear God, that's the beginning of wisdom. That's the only thing you need to fear, and that is help. That's healthy. That fear is very healthy. In the world side, fear is very destructive. You're afraid of death, you're afraid of sickness, you're afraid of losing your job, you're afraid of, name it, not getting clicks on, on your Instagram account. That fear, very destructive. This fear is very, very, very constructive. And hope worldview hope. I hope I get this job. I hope my stock portfolio does well. I hope, you know, I get good grades. I hope this test goes well. I hope this, that, that, that very destructive. That's, that's not right. Where do you put your hope? You put your hope in the living hope, which is the gospel and Christ and the salvations that's being held for us. So hope and fear, Biblically, very constructive. Hope and fear in the worldview. The most destructive things out there. And of course, everything like you said, is anchored in the truth and that foundation. And if you have that, it doesn't matter what comes, it doesn't matter what trials, tribulations, joys, if you have that strong foundation, you'll never be shaken. And I think that's kind of been very much where I've centered and found it, you know, because I think maybe folks would say, how can you continue on? How can you be thankful for that? How can you be grateful for these things? Well, I think it's because of that, on that truth, that even despite all of this, there's still joy and peace in that. And that my purpose isn't in my profession or the finances or anything like that.

[Sean Ryan]

You know, I think the one positive thing about all the lies that are coming out of these institutions, our politicians, the elites, social media, mainstream media, fuck, I even said one myself yesterday that I need to go and correct, but nobody does that. Nobody corrects themselves. And, you know, I think the one positive of all of this is you are seeing this gigantic surge of people coming back to Christianity. I think the dark, almost like it had to happen.

[AJ]

I think the dark is being allowed to get darker so the light gets brighter.

[Sean Ryan]

That's what I'm saying.

[AJ]

But the light itself, we have to remember, is if you take away the light, the natural state of things is darkness. And I would encourage those that do have the light not to do darkness's job. Don't hide it. Now is the time to be that light out there, because people are searching. They want truth. They want to hear it. I think they're tired of the lies and. And, you know, it's time for light. Light to shine. So, yeah, I think there's benefit. Like, you're right. I think there's benefit to. To the lies, to the darkness, because it points people away and. And. And it's clear.

[Sean Ryan]

Yeah.

[AJ]

What is opposite of that?

[Sean Ryan]

You want to end with a prayer?

[AJ]

I would love to if you'd like to. Yes.

[Sean Ryan]

Let's do it. Jesus, we just want to say thank you for bringing us together today and bringing truth to light. And I just want to ask that you be with AJ and all of these survivors that have been through so much, and however they find it, please let them find some healing. Healing for what happened to them physically and healing from what the institutions have done to them. Please make this world a better Place. Amen, A.J.

[AJ]

thanks, John.

[Sean Ryan]

It was an honor to have you here.

[AJ]

The honor was mine. It's extremely humbling, like I said, to be part of what you're doing and getting some of that truth out.

[Sean Ryan]

Thank you.

[AJ]

You,

[Sean Ryan]

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