Episode 104: Hidden Agendas: Honesty as a Time Management Tool

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Shed and Shine

Episode 104: Hidden Agendas: Honesty as a Time Management Tool

Hosts: Gino Wickman and Rob Dube
Date: March 4, 2026

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Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Gino Wickman and Rob Dube explore how hidden agendas—both in business and personal relationships—affect our ability to be authentic, manage our time, and ultimately connect meaningfully with others. They candidly share their own experiences with hidden agendas, discuss the psychological roots of indirect communication, and lay out practical time management strategies that center on radical honesty as a key efficiency tool for entrepreneurs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Honest Start: Emotional Check-in

• Gino opens up about feeling “cranky and edgy,” linking it to periods of personal growth and contraction.
  • “We expand and contract. I think I’m in a contraction period, and, like, my tectonic plates are shifting… I just thought I would openly share because you genuinely ask, how am I doing? And so I thought I’d just be really, hon.” — Gino [02:08]
• Rob appreciates the honesty, noting the importance of truly checking in beyond superficial greetings, referencing Jerry Colonna’s “How are you really?” approach.
  • “He likes to start a lot of his conversations off with the second, ‘How are you really doing?’ Because there’s always something under there, and then you can keep going deeper.” — Rob [03:37]

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2. Setting the Stage: Why Discuss Hidden Agendas?

• Rob introduces the episode’s main theme: hidden agendas, prompted by a recent personal experience with someone who wanted a Zoom call under the guise of “catching up,” only to discover it was sales-related.
• The hosts agree: relationships function best when intentions are transparent.
  • “The best relationships and opportunities happen when you’re upfront and completely honest about your intentions in all aspects of your life.” — Rob [06:54]
• Rob connects hidden agendas to acting from a place of fear:
  • “All decisions are made from love and fear or fear. And my friend didn’t share his agenda with me prior because… I think he might have had a fear that I might not have wanted to connect with him otherwise.” — Rob [06:25]

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3. The Practical Side: Hidden Agendas as a Time Management Trap

• Gino discusses how he filters interactions, emphasizing the need to clarify meeting objectives upfront for effective time management.
  • “I have to get really good at weeding those out. So to me, this is that discipline. Know your 100% and managing time. This is a time management conversation we’re about to have.” — Gino [08:24]
• Practical tip: Use gatekeepers, confirm objectives, and ask for the “dream outcome” at the start of a meeting.
  • “Whenever we start the call… I confirm how much time we have. And then I say, so what’s the objective? Like, give me your dream outcome at the end of this call.” — Gino [11:11]

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4. The Psychological Roots of Hidden Agendas

• Rob explores how learned behaviors from childhood—where honesty might have been met with shame or neglect—breed hidden agendas in adulthood.
  • “Your hidden agenda comes as an adult now, comes from maybe when you were younger and you shared your true feelings and… you were shamed because of it, or you were punished or maybe even ignored… You learn that these indirect or hidden ways of communicating... are actually safer.” — Rob [09:33]
• Gino acknowledges these roots but maintains entrepreneurs must set boundaries:
  • “I don’t care about their psychological issues and their wounding. It’s like I don’t have time to solve their healing.” — Gino [11:56]

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5. Owning Up: Reflecting on Our Own Hidden Agendas

• Both hosts admit to using hidden agendas in early business days out of insecurity and necessity.
  • “In the early days when I was insecure and scared and wounded and a nobody trying to get an appointment and a call with somebody. Yeah. Sometimes I might bend the truth a little bit to get my foot in that door...” — Gino [15:21]
• Rob asks listeners to also look inward:
  • “I hope that you’ll look inside of yourself and notice your own personal agendas, your own hidden agendas… where do you have hidden agendas in your life?” — Rob [12:55]

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6. The Messy Reality: Addressing Hidden Agendas in Relationships

• Gino and Rob discuss confronting hidden agendas head-on, especially in family dynamics, even though it can be messy.
  • “Sometimes addressing the hidden agenda or the psychology behind it or their issues is not a smart thing to do… but now I can think back… and in the early days… yeah, sometimes I might bend the truth…” — Gino [14:53, 15:21]
  • “Are we afraid for it to get messy?... what I would suggest is what you’re doing is go there, get into the conflict. I think it actually strengthens your relationship, hopefully in the long term.” — Rob [15:53]
• Gino: As confidence and financial security grow, honesty becomes easier, and dysfunctional relationships fall away.
  • “Do your best to move the needle, to be honest, in every situation, because now I look at where I am today, I am pretty damn honest about my agenda with everyone because partly I have the luxury to be, but also I have the courage to be.” — Gino [17:23]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the necessity of radical honesty for time management:

  • "To me, this is that discipline. Know your 100% and managing time. This is a time management conversation we’re about to have." — Gino [08:24]

• On the roots of indirectness:

  • “You learn that these indirect or hidden ways of communicating or these hidden agendas are actually safer.” — Rob [09:40]

• On the value of addressing conflict:

  • “Go there, get into the conflict. I think it actually strengthens your relationship, hopefully in the long term.” — Rob [15:53]

• On evolving personal honesty:

  • “Wherever you are out there on your journey … don’t feel guilty that you weren’t perfect and maybe there was a little bit of a hidden agenda, but do your best to move the needle, to be honest, in every situation.” — Gino [17:23]

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Practical Takeaways & Direct Advice

Rob’s actionable challenge to listeners:

• “Before a meeting, before a call, before an interaction in your life, maybe just pause, ask yourself, what energy am I bringing into this right now? And notice whether it comes from an openness, from love or control. Because the more awareness you bring to your energy, the more naturally your life will align with peace and authenticity.” — Rob [18:13]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00 – 04:37
  Honest check-in: hosts model radical emotional transparency
• 04:46 – 07:16
  Introduction to hidden agendas in life and business
• 07:52 – 09:25
  Practical methods for “smoking out” hidden agendas and time management
• 09:33 – 12:52
  Psychology: where hidden agendas come from
• 12:55 – 17:49
  Reflecting on personal agendas, family dynamics, and learning honesty over time
• 18:13 – end
  Takeaways and wisdom for listeners: aligning with peace and authenticity

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Summary

This episode is an honest, energetic exploration of the subtle yet powerful phenomenon of hidden agendas. Gino and Rob illustrate how unchecked hidden agendas waste time, erode trust, and ultimately undermine entrepreneurial and personal freedoms. Their blend of candor, psychological insight, and tactical advice challenges listeners to both protect their time and bring radical honesty into all interactions—for themselves and those around them. The message: honesty isn’t just a virtue; it’s a practical tool for shedding what holds us back and stepping into our brightest entrepreneurial selves.

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Transcript

[A]

And in the early days when I was insecure and scared and wounded and a nobody trying to get an appointment and a call with somebody. Yeah. Sometimes I might bend the truth a little bit to get my foot in that door.

[B]

Hello, everyone. My name is Rob Dube, and I am here with Gino Wickman. Gino, how are you? Do you. Those eyes.

[A]

Yeah. Cause I'm sitting here thinking, do you really care how I'm doing? Cause here's how I do it. Do you?

[B]

I really do.

[A]

Here's how I'm doing. I'm doing two simultaneous emotions. I'm really excited about our podcast today, and I'm a little crabby and cranky and edgy, and so I'm driving here.

[B]

I want to pat you right now. Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, why am I cranky and crabby and edgy today? And it's like I had an aha. That I'm. I think I'm going through a growing pain. I. You know, again. So we expand and contract. I think I'm in a contraction period, and, like, my tectonic plates are shifting, and so I can't wait to do a podcast episode. Feeling edgy and cranky and crabby.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And then I had this thought. I shared it with you as we started that, like newscasters, you know, so you think about the news. So you and I are sitting here, you know, getting ready in the producers, about to say, you know, we're going to start rolling. And all of a sudden, that's when the newscaster has to go, okay. Hello, it's showtime.

[B]

You're on.

[A]

I'm happy.

[B]

So you're on now.

[A]

Felt like telling you.

[B]

What kind of contraction is this? What's happening?

[A]

Listen to episode number Blankety blank. I don't know which one it was, but as we grow and expand, we also contract. It's a growing pain. So every time we're. We're learning a new big lesson. Every time we're were going to the next level, there are growing pains and tectonic plates shift, and it's a revolutionary period, and I can feel that that's what's going on.

[B]

Is the contraction just happening today or have you been.

[A]

Oh, no, I've been in this one for at least a few weeks.

[B]

Okay. Because you were just on a retreat, a personal retreat, for four days. Listen to episode 92 or 93, I think it is. You did a great riff on that. And so now did something come to light while you were.

[A]

Life is very full right now, and so some Some lesson is brewing. You never know what it is until the end of it.

[B]

But I guess where I'm getting at is, did that time where you kind of settled down and got away from a lot of things, did it stir something up for you?

[A]

No, no, no. I wouldn't tie it to that. No. This is just a lot of life happening right now. So it's just expanding and contracting, and this is only number 223 in my lifetime. So it's not like this. It's not like this is a new thing. I'm just telling you what's going on. So I don't think we need to drill down into it, because this one isn't even a big one. But I could feel that that's what's going on. And so as I was driving in going, why do I feel a little edgy, cranky and crabby? And that was. I realized that's what's going on. And I just thought I would openly share because you genuinely ask, how am I doing? And so I thought I'd just be really, hon. Before we launch into our podcast, there's

[B]

a guy that I did a podcast with when I used to do my interview podcast, which I'm doing right now with you. The interview podcast. You know, I prefer that.

[A]

I know you do.

[B]

So his name is Jerry Colonna, and he's a great, great guy. He has a book called Reboot. You could check that out. You don't have to go get it. But we started the podcast, and I said, how you doing? And he said, good. And then he said to me, how are you doing? And I said, yeah, I'm good. And he goes, but how are you really doing? And then we got into a really deep conversation. And so he likes to start a lot of his conversations off with the second, how are you really doing? Because there's always something under there, and then you can keep going deeper.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you started that off this way, and I appreciate that.

[A]

Yeah. And I also edgy. I said to myself, if Rob asks me how I'm doing, I'm going to tell him the truth. And that's what I did.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now we have a podcast to record, so we better get into this damn content.

[B]

Why? Are you getting edgy about it?

[A]

Not at all. I'm good. But listen, I'm feeling a little cranky, edgy, and pissed off right now.

[B]

Sorry. No, I'm not. But let's.

[A]

I'm ready to dive in if you are.

[B]

That's great. All right. Well, I guess we got to get to today's topic, Mr. Edgy. So today's topic, I'm actually. I don't know if I want to say the topic because you're edgy today. The topics, hidden agendas. And you told me yesterday you weren't really sure you loved that as a topic, but I think you're going to love it by the end. We'll see. Let me give you a little context from my standpoint, and then you tell me what's coming to your mind. But I read something about the actual term hidden agendas and how this happens in our lives, and then now with this new awareness that I had a person I know not well, but I know them contacted me and asked to catch up over zoom. And so we did that. I agreed to catch up with this person. And midway through the meeting, I realized that the real reason for him wanting to connect wasn't just to connect. He actually had an agenda we, which he did not tell me about. And the thing is, is when someone has an agenda, it means they are connecting because there's something they want versus wanting to build a genuine relationship, which I thought was the actual agenda. So that left me wondering, why didn't he just say that's why he wanted to connect? I would have so appreciated that. And in Shine, we write that all decisions are made from love and fear or fear. And my friend didn't share his agenda with me prior because I think he might have had a fear that I might not have wanted to connect with him otherwise. Fear or fear of rejection. So if he were to say, I'd love to connect because I want to tell you how my product can help your company. And as always, I just love connecting with you, that would be really authentic. And I probably still would have connected with him. And so when you think about it, our lives are full of these, especially with driven people, because we are all hawking our wares, as you like to say, yes, I do. Or we need connection to someone or help with something, et cetera, et cetera. So I hope we, Gino and I, help you, the listener, bring awareness to maybe some of the hidden agendas you have in your life now. Why? Because the best relationships and opportunities happen when you're upfront and completely honest about your intentions in all aspects of your life. So that's my context. What's coming up for you?

[A]

Yeah, very interesting. And I love, you know, you shared something. I think it's important that we share because rarely do you and I ever talk about the content of an Episode, you just send me five topics, I see them in advance, we launch in and there was something just about this one that was like just hitting me funny. And I didn't quite get where you were going. And so we had a brief conversation about it. So I'm curious where this goes. I want to add something though. You mentioned something about, you know, how my ability, you know, to run a meeting and the objective of a meeting. Are you wanting to bring that into this conversation? Do you still see a tie to that?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

So then I would ask you is bring that in when you're ready because I want to start with what you said and I'm going to just say a couple of high level points at least what that prompts for me. Okay. Because, you know, I have lots of people that reach out to me and say, hey, can we talk? Can we meet? Can we this, can we that? And I have to say no to. I don't even know what the percentage is because most of them I don't hear about because Karen filters it all and, and redirects them in a direction. So Karen is always saying, you know, what's the objective of the meeting? So with your friend, you know, if you had incorporated that, you know, that may have bubbled to the surface as real reason and it may very well have helped you say, oh, don't have time this week, reach out in the spring, because I am booked for the next two months. So I want to start with that premise because what I'd love to do is share some ideas on how to filter those out because it's as important to know the objective and the real agenda of the meeting as it is weeding it out. Because to me, this whole conversation is know your hundred percent you out there. We, you know, so me, it's now 40 hours a week, 40 weeks a year. That's all I've got. And so it's full. I can't squeeze in 10 more meetings this quarter and so I've got to get really good at weeding those out. So to me, this is that discipline. Know you're 100% and managing time. This is a time management conversation we're about to have. So I'm going to start with that statement and I'm going to pause, see what that prompts for you and let's do no, no dance.

[B]

Keep going unless you have no, I

[A]

want to turn back over to you.

[B]

Okay. Because, you know, I wanted to go a little bit deeper into why this happens, please.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I, I'll Start and then tell me what comes up for you. So, you know, I was thinking, for many, this comes back to your childhood, actually. Because what happens is your hidden agenda comes as an adult now, comes from maybe when you were younger and you shared your true feelings and. And maybe you were shamed because of it, or you were punished or maybe even ignored. And so your nervous system learns this and that. Indirect or hidden. You learn that these indirect or hidden ways of communicating or these hidden agendas are actually safer now. You might have even noticed, for example, your parents doing this when you were growing up. They may have had hidden agendas. They may have wanted something from you or wanted you to do something, but they weren't direct about it. And that's confusing to a kid. And it can be actually become a learned behavior. So I was thinking about just the psychology around going back to this person who reached out to me. This. Just the psychology around that.

[A]

This happens every once in a while when we do an episode and when in the topic, you know, you're seeing it from one dimension and I'm seeing it from another. So I want to see if. If we're clear on what's happening here. And I'm thinking about the person listening in or watching right now. So it's funny because, you know, we're talking about people with hidden agendas, and you're kind of getting into the psychology of that, and I'm getting into the logical time management of it. And so, you know, anybody listening in or watching, just know that that's what's going on right now. And I think there's this beautiful seeing both dimensions of it that that can be really powerful. So I'll share three things that what you're saying prompts. And then let's see where. Where we go with this. So again, I'm gonna go back to this very logical, tangible thing. Cause I'm. I'm backing into smoking it out. So whenever. In addition to Karen screening all these potential meetings and calls, she gets clear on the objective. And then whenever we start the call. So when. Like with your friend, when you jumped on that call, I always. The first. First thing out of my mouth is I confirm how much time we have. And then I say, so what's the objective? Like, give me your dream outcome at the end of this call. What are you hoping will happen? And so that's my opportunity to find out, does the objective they told Karen match with what we're here to talk about today? So that's how I start to smoke out hidden agendas. But this is the thing I want to say, coming at it from this logical time management. Know your 100% standpoint, and that is I don't care about their psychological issues and their wounding. It's like I don't have time to solve their healing. And this is where I love. You're going to come back in with, again, the psychological side of things. So with all of these requests, if they're coming in with a hidden agenda because of something that happened at 7 years old and they fear rejection, I don't have time to deal with that. And so sometimes I can be very direct in terms of, you know, that's not something I can help you with. And so I'm going to redirect you. And sometimes the call ends in 10 minutes and we're scheduled for an hour because I discover the hidden agenda. So if that makes sense, I'm coming at it from a time management logical standpoint, and we're coming at this from two different directions. And if everybody's caught up and that makes sense to you, I'm going to turn it back over to you.

[B]

Well, and what I would say for the listener.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is I hope that you'll look inside of yourself.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And notice your own personal agendas, your own hidden agendas. Excuse me. So that's really where. Well, I'm not asking anybody to psychoanalyze people that are reaching out to you, although you've got some great practical things, and I highly recommend all of them. But what I'm saying is, where do you have hidden agendas in your life? And I wanted to tie this back in also into our personal lives, because a lot of times we have personal hidden agendas in our families and with our kids. If you have kids or your parents, you know, if they're still around, or, you know, siblings, et cetera, and we're not direct with them. And I think that is one of the keys that I wanted to bring up here and circle that for sure.

[A]

And again, I want to spend time on the psychology as well as the logical side. I'm just making sure we're all aware of what's going on here so it doesn't get confusing. Because it could get confusing. So let me just touch on two psychological sides of what you're talking about. I love that you brought up family because, yes, it's. When you say that, it's like I can see a couple, three examples of hidden agendas, and I can't give specifics because it's not fair. But one in particular comes to mind. And what I find that I'm really good at doing, when the person is capable of having the conversation, is calling out the hidden agenda. And sometimes I have to get a little bit creative to get there, but it turns ugly sometimes, you know, once we expose what's really going on or the entanglement or the tangled web going on inside of that hidden agenda. So hopefully that push prompts something. And then I want. I just want to say one other thing. The second thing I would say on the psychological side, I'm hoping my point came across because again, whenever I start that phone call, that zoom call, or that meeting, I start with objective. To cut through all of those hidden agendas, to leave them at the door. And to. Sometimes addressing the hidden agenda or the psychology behind it or their issues is not a smart thing to do. And so you're putting. But now we're getting into ourselves, because now I can think Back to the 1000 phone calls, Zoom calls and meetings I've had to schedule. And in the early days when I was insecure and scared and wounded and a nobody trying to get an appointment and a call with somebody. Yeah. Sometimes I might bend the truth a little bit to get my foot in that door, go to a coffee shop meeting with a friend to slip in this new EOS thing that I'm doing. You know, so that's. I. I'm guilty of the same thing.

[B]

Yeah. Right. That. And that's. That was my hope, is that we could kind of bring that to the forefront. And even when we have our own best intentions, are we doing that from time to time, both in business and with our family? And I love that you mentioned with your family, you have to get creative sometimes. If I, If I heard that right.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And sometimes it gets messy. Right. And so the question is, are we afraid for it to get messy? Because we don't want to have conflict because we want what we want, and we're trying to get there without conflict because we fear that. And what I would suggest is what you're doing is go there, get into the conflict. I think it actually strengthens your relationship, hopefully in the long term. That doesn't mean you're going to always kiss and make up. It might actually mean your relationship is strained.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, but that can actually strengthen it.

[A]

Well, and end some relationships. I mean, if you're really going to go there because some, Some hidden agendas are so dysfunctional, that relationship is not good for you. So what this is prompting for me as well as I talk about, you know, this last 30 years and God knows how many meetings and zoom calls and phone calls I've scheduled. There's no question, as I have gained confidence, as I have shed layers, as I have built more financial independence and more security and more, you know, so if you think of it as a timeline, back to when I was flat broke, $200,000 in debt, you know, now whatever that was 25 years ago to now, you know, I've gotten better at this. I've learned more. I've gotten courage where, you know, I was scared to death back then. Now I have this level of confidence and security. So wherever you are out there on your journey, you know, it's. Don't feel guilty that you weren't perfect and maybe there was a little bit of a hidden agenda, but do your best to move the needle, to be honest, in every situation, because now I look at where I am today, I am pretty damn honest about my agenda with everyone because partly I have the luxury to be, but also I have the courage to be. And I'm just ready to go there and, you know, clean up all the messes in my life. I don't want dysfunctional relationships.

[B]

Yeah. I appreciate having been part of meetings with you and where you just right out of the gates, as you said earlier, start the meeting very clearly so everybody's on the same page. And it really does make everything go so much more smoothly. So I've learned a lot from you as far as that goes. All right, anything else coming up for you on this topic?

[A]

I feel we've said it all.

[B]

Okay, my friend. All right, so I do have a takeaway, maybe for you, the listener, before a meeting, before a call, before an interaction in your life, maybe just pause, ask yourself, what energy am I bringing into this right now? And notice whether it comes from an openness, from love or control. Because the more awareness you bring to your energy, the more naturally your life will align with peace and authenticity. And this is everything that we talk about in Shine. All right, Gino, thanks again and thank you all for joining us, and we'll see you next time. Stay focused and much love.

[A]

Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us, and please tune in for the next episode. Until then, we wish you all the best in freeing your true self. Stay focused and much love.