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- [00:00]
A
To be meaningless is a breakthrough, but a mind fuck. Because that's like, hey everybody, look what I did. When that domino finally falls, you are free.
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B
Hello everyone, my name is Rob Dube and I am here with Gino Wickman. Gino, what's happening?
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A
Dubai year happening.
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B
I love the sound of that. By the way, you, when you leave me a message for years, you 30 years.
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A
No, I'm not 30, but 25 years at least.
- [00:43]
B
And I just. We do voice texting a lot. You start everyone and it's just like, it's just so beautiful. Gino. I call this episode Still Driven but less Attached. So I was thinking about this idea of attachment and being driven and I got wondered about the many driven people, people that are attached to things like results, validation, attention that they get, or maybe even control. Then I wondered if driven people realized what they are giving up in their lives with these attachments. Maybe some peace, maybe some ease, maybe they're harming relationships. So in a way, I wonder if there's a belief that these attachments are actually what are keeping them sharp. Like if they let go of their desired outcomes, something won't be right in their life. Now what I've seen, both personally and in the deep work that I do with clients is that attachment is often fear based. We write about that in Shine discovery number two. All decisions, emotions, feelings and thoughts are made from love or fear, heart or ego. By the way, this is where the 10 disciplines can get pretty useful. Disciplines like be still and know thyself create this awareness. And 10 year thinking helps take away your attachment to to short term outcomes. So this isn't about doing less or being less driven. It's about becoming aware, aware of your fear and these attachments that you have and start redirecting them to love so that your drive comes from a more grounded and authentic place. So as I always like to ask, what's coming up for you, Shane?
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A
Oh, there's a lot coming up on this one. You're hitting on one of my hot buttons right now. So I am actually writing a new book. You are aware of this?
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B
I heard.
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A
I'm a few months in. You actually test read it?
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B
I did.
- [02:41]
A
A lot of energy around it and in a nutshell, it's all about detaching from the extremes of life. Okay. And so I'm going to explain this in more detail, but I want to add a couple things to your laundry list of attachments. Let's add to that people, other people, we are attached to the people in our life. Let's add to that possessions. We are attached to our possessions. And then let's add the biggie, and that is our identities. We are attached to our identities or our lives. So just to throw more in the mix, the reason it's a hot button and the idea behind the book and why it's coming up for me in such a big way is again, it's all about detaching, like I said, from these extremes in life. And the pendulum of life is always swinging. And to the degree we can detach ourselves from all of that and just observe, become aware and notice what's going on, it will be transformational. So it's everything that we've been talking about. There's no question. But I want to give a little, a couple little nuggets here on this, on this subject, because I use the word detach and I purposely use that because it's the opposite of attach. But detach sometimes sounds negative or it could be dangerous because the extreme. So let's look at those two polarities in the spectrum of attaching and detaching. Detaching can come off as being aloof or abdicating something or like in a very unhealthy way, just kind of saying, fuck you. That's not what we're talking about. It is possible to detach from all of your attachments. Rob gave you a list. I gave you a list. While still staying fully engaged, fully fully focused, fully aware and fully conscious. And so what we're talking about, this is where I want to kind of set the stage for this. It's this ability to step back and observe your life and everything going on in it. And so the best example coming to mind right now is this enlightened woman was sharing how when she gets in an argument and somebody's like yelling at her, she just gets such joy from it because she just detaches from. Because when somebody's yelling at you, it's their issue. But she in her head says angry person yelling. And when I heard that, I was like, oh my God, you just changed my life. So now let's apply that to control freak hanging on. We can go through all of it, but think about the ability of somebody yelling at you for you to completely detach from that while still staying fully engaged and listening and loving and caring for them. When 99.9999-9999% of us are incapable of doing that because we are going to feel something. And the idea is to not feel anything, just stay engaged. And so that little argument Example, you can apply that to every example that we talked about. And so I just want to set the stage with that. And I'm really excited to dive deep into that. So what's coming up for you?
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B
Mr. Well, a question I wanted to do with you is I wanted to take you back. If you're willing to go there, and if you're not, that's fine. But when you look back at your own journey, where have you noticed these attachments showing up even when things were going well?
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A
Yeah. So we're going to have to go back and forth because nothing's coming up fast.
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B
Let me start. Something will come up.
- [06:41]
A
You'll write on your worst case, I'll steal yours.
- [06:44]
B
I was thinking about when I was running my previous company, which I still own, Image one, and I was so attached to Outcomes, so attached to them. And you talked about people earlier. I was so attached to people. For example, if someone left our company, I would feel horrible for like weeks about it. I would feel so depressed. Like it was, I took it so personally. I was attached to those people. I just couldn't understand how could they leave this company? Company that I built. And it's such a great place. I'm so attached to this company. I'm so attached to the idea that it's such a great place. And it was just all so unhealthy. I noticed when I had successes, in many ways it increased my fear because I'd worry about going backwards. So then I was on a treadmill. So I was attached to more and more successful because I didn't want to go backwards. So I was foregoing peace for some later time in my life. So that's, that's my example.
- [07:53]
A
You prompted. You jarred three things loose, Rob. Good work. You jarred three things loose. So the first one starts with business, because that's where you started. And it's, you know, it's, it's me being the EOS guy, you know, and I would actually use that term. So after selling EOS worldwide and again, beautifully, having no responsibility in that business not one iota, the day after closing, I was still attached to being the EOS guy. And I would say that for years, you know, So I would say I sold it, don't have any involvement, but I'm still the EOS guy. And like, I felt the need to say that for God knows what reason. And it was all about their judgment, whoever they were. So I just let that go. I'm probably a year or two ago, it took me six, seven years And I believe I have truly, fully let go. Now, I may still be in denial and there might be one or two more percent to go because I'm proud of that experience. I'm proud of what was built there. But it's now in the hands of smarter, better people than me to take it to the next level. And boy, have they taken it to the next level. So that's one. The second one is, you know, you brought this up so in the, in the long form interview that we did for the audiobook of Shine, I believe that's where it is. But you interviewed the people in my life. And when you interviewed my mom, she shared how I would keep all of my toys in a box at nine years old. Okay. And so this is another great example. And I write about this in the new book because I realize how dysfunctional that was. So it was a great story. You know, it was such a great story. But it's like, ouch. When I realized what's behind it. Because not only would I keep my toys in a box, I would protect it from the world. And nobody was allowed to touch my toys out of fear that they were going to break it or take it or something. I don't know. But I was so protective of my. So just another example of attachment. And then the third one that came up is my 1 and 5 star ratings on Amazon. So both sides, you know, so it's like a one star rating. I mean, in the first. So this goes back 18 years. But in the first couple years of publishing traction, I would be distraught at a one star rating. It's like, why? How I would obsess about it. And just as quickly a five star rating would make me feel good, you know. And so the beauty today, sitting here today, one star, five star. It would suck if all of a sudden 90% were one stars. It would wake me up that I need to work on my content. Fortunately, most of them are five stars, but no attachment to either one of those things. So there's three things that you jarred loose.
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B
Those are so good. Now I want to talk about discovery number two from the book Shine. Decisions are made from love or fear.
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A
Fear.
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B
And maybe just do they change the way you look at attachment to outcomes? Like I was thinking about it, does fear create this urgency instead of just allowing things to flow? You know, when I think about love, I think it's more trusting. It's like patient. It's this knowing that with proper effort, the outcome will be exactly as it should be. And I was just Thinking about that and wondering what you, what comes up for you on that?
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A
Yeah, that. What it made me think of is to go back through each one of my three examples. And the EOS guy thing was so again, it was from fear, fear of losing my identity. I was the EOS guy, you know, the toys. It was fear of somebody taking something from me. You know, it was like, like a protection, like a jealousy. And then the one star ratings. I think there were two parts, two big fears in that it was certainly reputation and identity, but it was almost like a self worth thing as well. So, so I don't know if I'm answering it, but totally those are some of your based roots of what was going on with. Yeah.
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B
And I wonder like what does it look like when it's coming from love?
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A
Yeah. And so now all of a sudden it'll be a crude shift, but it's like, you know what I was taught by a therapist in my 20s, which never stuck until five years ago. It is them, you know, so it's like all this judgment, you know, when you can really truly from your soul say fuck em and really mean that it's like your life will change, which just simply means all that judgment doesn't matter. It's like it's so irrelevant. And so when it's coming from love, from the inside out, it's like, you know, it's, it's I am full, I do love myself. I am just me. And so from that stems, you know, no need for an identity, which the identity thing is so big. Like the reason I brought identity into the conversation, that's the last thing to fall. Okay? And like even more important than that, your life. Like we are attached to our life. So I have been teaching the world how to live the EOS life and how to live your ideal life and live by these 10 disciplines. And I hold them up as, see what I did. See the life I created for that. This is going to sound weird. To be meaningless is a breakthrough, but a mind fuck. Because that's like, hey everybody, look what I did. When that domino finally falls, you are free. I am free. So that one's still a work in progress, but it's a quantum leap from where it was eight years ago. And I don't even know if I'm answering your question because I'm just, I was like just riffing.
- [13:43]
B
I love it. All right, so now I was trying to think a little bit practically. Discipline number four is be still. How can that be useful with attachment? Well, I think when you take time to be still, as we recommend in the book. When you get quiet, you can feel into your body on things you can start to notice. Like I have this goal to hit a certain milestone in the company or in my career and I'm feeling like a lot of angst around it. You're getting really attached to it. So you might say, is this what I really desire? Is this what I'm really on this earth to do? Just listening deeply, noticing your body's reaction to it, noticing what you're feeling and you know, maybe letting go of your attachment doesn't mean you're still not moving towards that. That's where 10 year thinking discipline number one could come into play. It doesn't mean you might, you're not still moving in that direction. You're just not so attached to it. And with the attachment, with the release of the attachment, the detachment, I suppose as you said earlier, you get more clarity. And when you get more clarity, you have more space in your mind. And with more space in your mind, I truly believe you'll make better decisions and you'll end up exactly where you're supposed to be. So, any thoughts coming up.
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A
One thought. And I'm going to urge we end on this thought, but again, I'm going to shut up and let you say whatever you want.
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B
We end when I say we end.
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A
Yes sir. Sorry. I have a new favorite word and I feel like I say that every freaking episode, but it's this word notice, Notice, notice. Just simply notice. And it's what this new book is all about. And it's my, one of my favorite words in the book. And, and so everything you just described is for us to notice. Within notice is detach, observe, be aware, be conscious, stay engaged. And so notice says it is stepping back, letting go of it all and noticing, oh, angry person yelling, oh, he's trying to control that up. So it's just noticing everything going on. And so you let into this with stillness. Stillness practices allow you to notice. They heighten your ability to notice. If you really and truly practice stillness, you should be completely detached in that stillness. And in that state of stillness, whatever form, you will notice more of this stuff that you're hanging onto and it will help you to let go and detach.
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B
That's so good. Thank you all for joining us and we'll look forward to seeing you next time. And in the meantime, stay focused and
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A
much love, thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us and please tune in for the next episode. Until then, we wish you all the best in freeing your true self. Stay focused and much love.