Episode 122: More Output, Less Chaos: The Case for Slowing Down

Summary

Shed and Shine – Episode 122: More Output, Less Chaos: The Case for Slowing Down

Hosts: Gino Wickman & Rob Dube
Release Date: July 8, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this episode of Shed and Shine, Gino Wickman and Rob Dube dive into the often counterintuitive idea that high-performing, driven entrepreneurs can achieve greater clarity, better decisions, and true freedom not by doing more, but by intentionally slowing down. With personal stories, client anecdotes, and tangible advice, the hosts explore why slowing down is so difficult for driven personalities, and why it's often the most impactful thing they can do for themselves and their businesses.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Fear of Slowing Down Among High Achievers

[00:42–03:10]

• Slowing down is scary for driven people.
  Rob opens by highlighting how many high performers are literally afraid of slowing down:

  "Slowing down scares people, especially the driven. Many can't even take a vacation without slowing down. They're constantly on the go. How do I know this? I was one of them." ([00:42], Rob)

• Momentum feels safer than stillness for entrepreneurs, who worry that stopping means losing purpose or productivity.
• Real emotions surface in stillness:

  "Much of the reason we don't slow down is because we might feel our actual emotions. And that can be scary, and it can be painful." ([01:36], Rob)

• Key insight: Slowing down creates space to reconnect with one’s body and intuition, which leads to better decisions.

Stopping and Slowing Down: Why It Feels Like Death

[03:11–07:57]

• Gino reframes the conversation to include both "slowing down" and "stopping"—emphasizing their emotional cost for high achievers.
• Driven people equate slowing down with losing their identity:

  "If you go 100 miles an hour every day, to start going 75 miles an hour is going to feel like death to a driven person." ([04:13], Gino)

• Building the muscle of slowing down:
  It’s a habit that requires time, patience, and security in one’s self-worth.
• Anecdote: Gino shares a story about a client who, after decades of relentless business growth and acquisitions, is struggling to find a new equilibrium post-sale. The challenge is finding a purpose or activity that reignites passion without falling back into old, exhausting patterns.
• Advice:
  Gino tells his client:

  "Say no to all that other crap, do this 10 hour a week thing and just create space. Feel bored for a little bit ... What I know inside of like two months, this guy's going to discover the next thing because that's how he works." ([06:50], Gino)

Creating Space: The Power of Taking Time Off

[07:57–10:13]

• Rob encourages a friend nearing a career transition to “take a year off and see what happens,” which is met with disbelief.
• The discomfort of having no set purpose can be transformative:

  “Just ... What about just being uncomfortable, not having the thing to do and not knowing quite yet what is my next purpose here in this life?” ([08:39], Rob)

• Gino’s personal story: After selling his family business in his early 30s, he took nine months off.

  "EOS was birthed... I read these amazing books that stimulated me to see my calling so, so, so clearly." ([09:10], Gino)

• Broader perspective: Creating space may lead to the next big idea, often outside of one's current industry or habitual patterns.

The Visual & The Energy of Slowing Down

[10:13–10:41]

• Gino recalls a physical gesture he uses with coaching clients (including Rob):

  "Rob, you're like this and you just need to be more like this – you just need to be more like this, you know? So it's that intensity with the hands and then it's just flowing. Chill, man, chill." ([10:26], Gino)

• The key is moving from a place of constant intensity to a state of flow.

Intuition and Performance: Finding Your Sweet Spot

[10:41–11:15]

• Rob highlights the link between slowing down and intuition:

  "When you're slowing down and you have decisions to make, you have the ability, I think, at that point to have more intuitive... your intuition kind of rises." ([10:41], Rob)

• Gino agrees, describing how finding your “speed” (not too fast, not too slow) brings about clarity and creativity.

Metaphor: “Treeing” in Tennis

[11:15–11:51]

• Rob introduces "treeing": playing well above your normal level for a period.

  "When you're truly slowing down, you can be treeing, maybe in your career or your work life, and maintain that for a long time." ([11:31], Rob)

• Suggests that slowing down can unlock sustained peak performance, not just for a moment, but over the long haul.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Emotional Challenge of Stopping:

  "When we stop, shit comes up, you know, and that's your Anne Lamott quote in its purest form." ([03:11], Gino)

• On Channeling Driven Energy:

  "Your drive, your work ethic isn't a bad thing ... Gino and I just want to help you channel it most effectively." ([02:13], Rob)

• Advice for Transitioning Entrepreneurs:

  "Feel bored for a little bit ... What I know inside of like two months, this guy's going to discover the next thing because that's how he works." ([06:50], Gino)

• On Creating Life-Changing Space:

  "I created nine months of space, and for lack of a better term, EOS was birthed ... I read these amazing books that stimulated me to see my calling so, so, so clearly." ([09:10], Gino)

• On Intuition:

  "When you slow down and find your speed ... you are now in that pocket and you are frickin' seeing it, understanding it, knowing it, and stuff just comes out." ([10:54], Gino)

• On Peak Performance ("treeing"):

  "When you're truly slowing down, you can be treeing, maybe in your career or your work life, and maintain that for a long time." ([11:31], Rob)

---

Key Timestamps

• 00:42: Rob introduces the episode’s theme: Why slowing down scares driven people.
• 03:11: Gino reframes to include the fear of stopping, not just slowing down.
• 04:13: Gino analogizes reducing speed to “feeling like death” for entrepreneurs.
• 06:50: Gino shares advice about creating space after selling a business.
• 08:39: Rob proposes a year of discomfort to a client for self-discovery.
• 09:10: Gino describes how taking nine months off birthed his next venture.
• 10:26: Gino uses his signature gesture to illustrate the move from intensity to flow.
• 10:41: Rob and Gino discuss how slowing down enhances intuition.
• 11:31: Rob introduces "treeing" as a metaphor for extended peak performance through slowing down.

---

Conclusion

The episode encourages driven entrepreneurs to courageously create space in their lives—through slowing down or stopping—to awaken new insights, creativity, and purpose. The hosts share both the emotional challenges and practical value of stepping off the fast track, reminding listeners that clarity and sustained high performance often emerge from moments of intentional pause.

To all driven listeners: Shed the need for relentless speed, create some space, sit with the discomfort, and discover what shines next.

Transcript

[A]

Rob, you're like this, and you just need to be more like this.

[B]

You just need more like this. Hello, everyone. My name is Rob Dubay, and I am here with Gino Wickman. Gino, what is happening?

[A]

I feel like I'm in professor stance. I feel serious with it for some reason. I feel serious with this.

[B]

I don't knowing something to do with

[A]

slowing down really don't think it has anything to do with the topic. Either you're pissing me off right now,

[B]

or I'm just feeling pissing off energy.

[A]

I feel that.

[B]

Oh, that might be all right. Okay. So what we're going to talk about today is why slowing down actually scares driven people, high performers. I love this topic. Slowing down scares people, especially the driven. Many can't even take a vacation without slowing down. They're constantly on the go. How do I know this? I was one of them. I'm still recovering, and I want to say that slowing down is simple, but for driven people, it really isn't. Most high performers are wired to keep moving, solving things, producing, creating. Don't want to stop the momentum. And when things get uncomfortable, the instinct is to go faster, not slower. And what I see in my work with clients is that much of the reason we don't slow down is because we might feel our actual emotions. And that can be scary, and it can be painful. I always like to share my favorite quote from Anne Lamott. She says, my mind is like a bad neighborhood. I never want to go there alone. So driven people just keep doing what they've always done. They keep going. They stay busy. They may not realize that they're out of alignment in their life, but continuing to move at this pace actually feels safer than being still for them. And yet slowing down is often what really creates clarity. It's where the best decisions come from. It's where you reconnect to your body. You feel what's actually happening inside and respond instead of reacting. And your drive, your work ethic isn't a bad thing. I want to say that to all of you. Gino and I just want to help you channel it most effectively. So what's coming up for you?

[A]

A lot is coming up. Great. Tee up. I wrote six things down, and I now know why I'm feeling serious. Because this is a serious topic, Rob. This is a serious. We go serious topic. I want to expand your topic from why slowing down scares. Would you call them high achievers?

[B]

Driven, Driven.

[A]

I'm trying to use your words.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To why stopping scares high achievers as well, because we got to stop from time to time. We got to stop.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So on that point, one of the reasons I believe it scares us is because when we stop, shit comes up, you know, and that's your Anne Lamont quote in its purest form. When we stop, stuff comes up. Everything that your soul has been trying to get you to see and hear and listen to and feel and experience, it's all coming up. And that's really freaking scary. Now, I'm not just going to focus on stopping because slowing down is as vital, and I think this is conversation can be more 80% slowing down than stopping. But slowing down feels like stopping. So, for instance, if you go 100 miles an hour every day to start going 75 miles an hour is going to feel like death to a driven person. It's literally going to feel like you're dying. And at least for me, where my mind goes is, well, is this it? It was a good run. It's over. You know, it's like, all right, something changed. I don't have motivation anymore. So just let's. We could come up with a hundred psychological things that happen when we slow down, but going from 100 to 75 is going to feel like death to a driven person. And so it takes time. It's hard. It's a habit. We're building a muscle. And so it's reminding me of a conversation I just had yesterday sitting in a deli with a client slash friend. And he I'm going to not use names or businesses to protect the innocent. But he built a great business. He then sold that great business five years ago, stayed on and really wanted to and loved it, and then helped roll up a bunch of acquisitions in the next run and did it again and then resold it, just sold again last year. But now he's realizing with this new sale in the new company, he doesn't want to go as hard as he went in the previous stuff. And so now he's trying to decide how involved he wants to stay in this company, and the new owners want him to stay involved. And so we're having this conversation, and he's picking my brain and asking for my advice. And I saw it so clearly, and I don't think he quite got it, but this is the best way I can describe it. I'm hoping this resonates for everyone out there. But all he has known is going hard. Since there's a story I've written about him in one of my other books since, like, age 12. I mean, just A pure entrepreneur. Really cool story. Since age 12. And now he's in his 50s, so going hard for, you know, quick math. 40 years, 30 years. All of a sudden he's now faced with this point in his life that he definitely still wants to work. So the first thing I ask in this type of a situation, I say, you know, are you ready to throw in the towel and ride off into the sunset or do you still want to work? And he definitely still wants to work. So it's like, me, I sold, but I still want to work. I still, my energy wants to make an impact. He still wants to work and make an impact. But he's so in the swirl and the hurriedness and the intensity and all he knows for 30 to 40 years he's making some bad decisions within this new owner. And he said, oh, yeah, well, I'll help you with that and I'll do that and I'll do this. Because it's like all he knows. And what I believe in my soul for him is there is a piece of that that he should hang onto. Cause it's really a sweet spot for him. But it's like 10 hours a week and he'll be bored just working 10 hours a week. And I think there's this beautiful opportunity for him to fill the rest of that time, whatever he wants. He's got more money than he'll ever need, but there's whether it's 10 more hours, 20 more hours, 30 more hours, this guy goes pretty hard and I think will continue to. But man, what an impact this guy could make if he just goes and pursues the next thing that's going to fully fill him up. And so I call it creating space, you know, so like this year I've disclosed on the podcast episode in 2026, I've created 25 days of new space this year. And I'm so excited about how that space is being filled. And so what I advised him, as I said, I suggest you create space. Say no to all that other crap, do this 10 hour a week thing and just create space. Feel bored for a little bit, you know, go get a little office and go to that office every day and just sit there and read and research and learn. And what I know inside of like two months, this guy's going to discover the next thing because that's how he works. Long response to your tee up. But hopefully that stirs the pie you're bringing to mind.

[B]

Somebody that I know that is, has a very valuable company, is considering going through the sales Selling, having it acquired. And it's the perfect time. But he's really worried about what he's going to do next. And I threw out this idea to him. And I'm curious what you think about it. I said, why don't you just take a year off and see what happens?

[A]

He was like, a year?

[B]

Well, maybe, I don't know, maybe like 30 days. And I'm like, dude, you've been going hard for decades. Try it on. See what it feels like. Yeah, you can go do some traveling and yada, yada, keep yourself busy. But just. What about just being uncomfortable, not having the thing to do and not knowing quite yet what is my next purpose here in this life? What do you think of that?

[A]

Yeah, two things. The first is great advice because you're telling him to create space. Create space. Create space. I think there's something to that. It's time for you to create space. And I think about when I sold the family business, when we sold there, I was 31 years old, or 30 years old right in there. I took nine months off. I created nine months of space, and for lack of a better term, EOS was birthed. You know, I read these amazing books that stimulated me to see my calling so, so, so clearly. So I created nine months of space. Your advice to that person, I believe, is incredible and spot on. Take a year with this gentleman. You know, the other thought that's coming to mind, I, you know, I'm just urging him to don't worry about how much time, how much space, lop off, all that shit you're used to. So it's like the, the visual, you know, so like, I'm doing this with my hands right now, and most people can't see it because they're not on video, but it's all he knows is this industry that he's been in. And it's like, so it's like all he knows is just, you know, keep doing something in that, keep doing something in that. And like, if he could zoom out and see this world of opportunity and his gifts, I believe this thing for him, this next thing has nothing to do with the industry that he's in, and it was not computing for him. And I think it's going to. But there's something else out there for this guy because he's this pretty special dude, you know, he's got a big heart. So for what.

[B]

And that visual you're doing like that actually you invented that with. Well, I don't know if you invented with me, but you did it to me. Whatever. Crazy. It was crazy. So you're. It's still out there. It's still a thing.

[A]

And for those that are on video, you know this because I've given that advice several times. But it's like, Rob, you're like this and you just need to be more like this. You just need to be more like this, you know? So it's that intensity with the hands and then it's just flowing. Just. Yeah, Chill, man, chill.

[B]

I was thinking about that. You know, when you're slowing down and you have decisions to make, you have the ability, I think, at that point to have more intuitive. Intuitive. You know, your intuition kind of rises.

[A]

Well, don't even get me started, you know? So again, speed. When you slow down and find your speed. Yes, you're gonna see everything. You're gonna fly. Like, I can feel it right now in my body and hands. It's like you find that sweet spot and it's like, man, you are now in that pocket and you are frickin seeing it, understanding it, knowing it, and stuff just comes out. All the right things come up in that place.

[B]

Yeah. Reminds me, when I was young, I used to play tennis, and there's a term in tennis called treeing. Tree T R E E ING. And this is where you're. All of a sudden, you're playing way above your normal level, almost unrealistically well. And it's often just for a short period of time. So it's like you're out of your mind. Good for a while. And in this case, when you're truly slowing down, you can be treeing, maybe in your career or your work life, and maintain that for a long time. Gino, anything else coming up for you on this?

[A]

Yeah, I got nothing for you, Rob. I got nothing for you.

[B]

That's not what you usually say.

[A]

Let me. I know. I wanted to mix it up a little bit.

[B]

Oh, okay. That's fine. You have a new. A new way of saying.

[A]

But my well has run dry on this particular topic at this exact moment.

[B]

All right, well, thank you all for listening to us as always, and we'll see you next time. In the meantime, stay focused and much love.

[A]

Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us and please tune in for the next episode. Until then, we wish you all the best in freeing your true self. Stay focused and much love.