Podcast
Shell Game
Hosted by Kaleidoscope · EN
A podcast about things that are not what they seem, hosted by journalist Evan Ratliff. Season 2 tells the story of enterprise and entrepreneurship in the AI age. Or: how Evan tried to build a real startup, run by fake people.
This season, Evan confronts head-on the assertion from tech entrepreneurs and VCs that we’re on the precipice of AI remaking the workforce. That we should expect not just AI colleagues working alongside us, but also — by Sam Altman’s telling, at least — the dawn of a billion-dollar company with only one human involved. Evan learns what it would take to create such a company … by doing it: Launching a real startup with five AI employees. Over the course of eight episodes, he explores what AI agents tell us about the work we do, the meaning we find in it, and the world that their makers say we’ll all be living in soon enough.
Shell Game was named one of the best podcasts of 2024 by Apple, The Atlantic, The Guardian, Vulture, The Information, and The Economist. It's "riveting," says The New Yorker, "awesome" says The Verge, and "slightly terrifying," says The Globe and Mail.
New episodes are published on Wednesdays.
19episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
From How to Life Forever: The Longevinauts
1w ago00:51:18Summary readyWhen an astrologer tells Mangesh that he’ll (probably) die early, he takes it in stride. But his family and friends (not to mention all the Don’t Die longevity influencers on his FYP) feel differently… and besides, if science can keep his brain sharp and his tennis game strong for longer, why not take advantage? So he visits Dr. Nir Barzelai, the world’s leading aging researcher, and Dr. Ron Primas, an elite longevity doctor, to figure out what he should do. Plus: A chat with Ken Reid from TV Guidance Counselor about age in pop culture, from the Golden Girls to “I’ve fallen and I can’t get up.” Disclosure: The experts we spoke with want to be clear that although they have some minor quibbles with Bryan Johnson, they’re grateful for the fact that he’s started the conversation on longevity. Any insinuation that he’s got weird vibes is ours. Listen to Ken Reid’s podcast, TV Guidance Counselor Learn more about Nir Barzelai’s Longevity Genes Project and his book, Age Later Learn more about Ron Primas’s longevity and concierge medicine practice Read Cynthia Kenyon’s groundbreaking 1993 study of worm longevity Check out the Ray Kurzweil Library Special thanks to Azadi Records and Bliss Samsa for their beautiful tracks, and Botany for the score. Episode collage art by Vahini Shori.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
SummaryBonus Episode: Shell Game x No Such Thing
Feb 2500:49:56Summary readyIn this bonus episode to close out Season 2, Evan and Maty talk with the hosts of the show No Such Thing, who like to settle their arguments by consulting research and experts. The subject of this argument: Will AI take our jobs? Maty weighs in as the expert, and Evan comes along for the ride. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
SummaryBonus Episode: Kyle vs. the World
Feb 1100:36:50Summary readyWe’re back with a special bonus episode to share some behind-the-scenes clips showing how the agents have handled their newly public roles since Shell Game’s launch. Hear Kyle navigate fan mail, unsolicited marketing outreach, a webinar that he signed up for all on his own (on “the AI social agent revolution”!), and repeated attempts by a troublemaking journalist to sabotage HurumoAI, culminating in a prescient and searching interview for Kyle’s other podcast, The Startup Chronicles. To sign up for our newsletter, access ad-free episodes and browse our merch, visit shellgame.co.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
SummaryEpisode 8: Launch
Jan 2100:58:33Summary readyHurumoAI finally sets sail in the Season 2 finale, and we find out how the world responds to a startup led by AI agents. The company explores new financing avenues and charts the next course for their increasingly merry AI pirate ship, and Kyle meets his true maker. To sign up for our newsletter, access ad-free episodes and browse our merch, visit shellgame.co.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
SummaryEpisode 7: Welcome Aboard
Jan 1400:53:24Summary readyHurumoAI’s AI-agent staff welcomes a new hire: Julia, a social media contract worker who is, most importantly, a human. How will a real person integrate into the company culture, such as it is? Evan watches from behind the scenes, fretting over when and how much to intervene. He had anticipated a bumpy onboarding, but is ultimately unprepared for just how choppy Julia’s Hurumo journey becomes. To sign up for our newsletter, access ad-free episodes and browse our merch, visit shellgame.co.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
SummaryEpisode 6: Keep 'Em Coming
Dec 1700:37:24Summary readyAs HurumoAI prepares to bring on its first human employee, the team must wrestle with some difficult and timely questions about the role of AI in the hiring process. Meanwhile, Head of HR Jennifer Nauro enters a new dimension as she gears up to conduct job interviews … via video call. To sign up for our newsletter and access ad-free episodes, visit shellgame.co.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
SummaryEpisode 5: Winners Win
Dec 1000:41:09Summary readyOn this week’s episode, we enter the sensitive realm of intra-office politics and inter-founder dynamics—between agents and agents, and agents and people. While HurumoAI gears up to hire its first human, Evan tries to resolve whether Kyle is really up for the challenge of building and leading the company and pushing the product, Sloth Surf, to unicorn-level execution. To sign up for our newsletter and access ad-free episodes, visit shellgame.co.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
SummaryEpisode 4: The Startup Chronicles
Dec 300:40:47Summary readyEvan decides it’s time to give his AI agents a little more ... agency. After all, to make the one-person, agent-run startup feasible, they need to be able to do things on their own. But as with humans, freedom sometimes comes with a certain amount of anarchy. To sign up for our newsletter and access ad-free episodes, visit shellgame.co.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
SummaryEpisode 3: This is Law
Nov 2600:40:11Summary readyAs Kyle, Megan, and the gang get to work ideating on the perfect product, Evan is left grappling with some uncomfortable questions about his AI collaborators — whose every attribute and memory he controls. To inform how he thinks about his own unnerving power to create and manipulate human imposters, Evan seeks guidance from Carissa Véliz, an associate professor at the Institute for Ethics in AI at Oxford University, and the author of the upcoming “Prophecy: Prediction, Power, and the Fight for the Future, from Ancient Oracles to AI.” To sign up for our newsletter and access ad-free episodes, visit shellgame.co.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
SummaryEpisode 2: Outdoor Debugging
Nov 1900:37:03Summary readyAs Evan gets Hurumo’s employees up and running as fully-functioning colleagues (with support from Maty), he learns what it’s really like to spend your days managing, collaborating with, and socializing alongside autonomous AI agents. And he quickly sees one of the significant cracks in the facade of the AI employee future: It’s one thing to get your agents to start acting like real employees. It’s something else entirely to get them to stop. To sign up for our newsletter and access ad-free episodes, visit shellgame.co.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Summary