From How to Life Forever: The Longevinauts

Summary

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Shell Game – S2: "From How to Live Forever: The Longevinauts"

Host: Mangesh Tighadur, Kaleidoscope
Date: August 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this introspective and witty episode of Shell Game, journalist Mangesh Tighadur embarks on a deeply personal and scientific journey into the world of longevity—exploring society’s obsession with living longer, Silicon Valley’s biohacking craze, and the personal reckonings that shape our ideas about aging, loss, and what it really means to have "enough" time. Mixing humor, pop culture, his own family stories, and interviews with longevity experts, Mangesh unpacks the myth and reality of living forever in the era of AI and miraculous medical advances.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Reflections on Aging and Mortality

• Opening Reflections:
  Mangesh reflects on his own aging process and the mounting obsession with longevity—a movement he sees as influenced by wealthy, tech-oriented individuals seeking to outwit mortality.

  “Longevity sort of feels like this rarefied tech bro, brainchild of the already wealthy, already healthy individuals that somewhat selfishly want to live an extra few decades.” — Mangesh, [02:36]

• Family as Perspective:
  He recalls his great-grandmother’s impressive 103-year life, and how even that seems “unremarkable” among “biopunks” and “longevinauts” chasing 120+.

  “These days, when I talk to biopunks and longevinauts, 103 barely seems worth bragging about.” — Mangesh, [05:38]

• Aging, Trauma & Colonialism:
  Discussion of generational trauma, epigenetics, and the specific way communities of Indian descent age faster due to colonial history.

  “Even if I take a lot of pills, colonialism kind of screwed me.” — Mangesh, [05:03]

2. Pop Culture and How We See "Old"

• Media’s Depiction of Old Age:
  Mangesh and comedian Ken Reid recall TV commercials like “I’ve fallen and I can’t get up,” and shows like Golden Girls—noting how 50 was once depicted as “elderly” in American culture.

  “Rue McClanahan, who played Blanche, was just 51.” — Mangesh, [12:12] “Mona from Who’s The Boss — prime example, right?” — Ken Reid, [12:44]

• Shift in Norms:
  Today’s 50- and 60-year-olds are portrayed as vibrant, fit, and active—reflective of advances in public health, diets, dermatology, and changing attitudes.

  “Think about what those mid-50s look like now. Matt Damon as Odysseus is not feeble. He’s 55 and ripped…” — Mangesh, [13:32]

3. The Pull of Prediction and Astrology

• Facing a Predicted Expiration Date:
  Revisiting a moment when a Tamil astrologer predicted his death at 64, Mangesh confronts how such knowledge affects his views and those of his family.

  “So if I trust his interpretation of the stars, I have an expiration date of 64 years. Which, you know, not bad.” — Mangesh, [17:50] “I don’t find this funny at all.” — Lizzie, his wife, [18:19]

• Family Responses:
  The discussion between Mangesh, his wife Lizzie, and child Ruby reveals differing attitudes toward mortality, and the complexity of not wanting to outlive loved ones.

  “Do you want to live a long time?” — Lizzie, [20:54]
  “I think it would be nice. But I also think it would be sad to grow and like, have a lot of people who you love, like, leave.” — Ruby, [20:56]

4. Science of Aging with Dr. Nir Barzilai

• Early Breakthroughs & Biological Age:
  Dr. Barzilai, a leader in aging research, highlights how caloric restriction in animals became the foundation for modern aging science and the distinction between biological vs. chronological age.

  “There is a biological age and a chronological age.” — Dr. Barzilai, [26:17]

• Secrets of Centenarians:
  Insights from the Longevity Genes Project, showing some centenarians achieve extreme age without significant disease—and that genes plus behaviors both play significant roles.

  “Of our centenarians, 30% didn’t have any disease and didn’t take any medications.” — Dr. Barzilai, [28:33]

• Healthy Aging as More Than Genes:
  While family genetics matter, controllable health decisions still move the needle.

5. The New Longevity Lifestyle – Dr. Ron Primus

• Longevity Medicine Clinic Experience:
  Mangesh undergoes a (very expensive) longevity evaluation—driven by Dr. Primus’s own family history of cancer and fascination with prevention and optimization.

  “I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop.” — Dr. Primus, [31:09]

• Ray Kurzweil & Silicon Valley’s Escape Philosophy:
  How futurist Kurzweil’s vision of “longevity escape velocity” inspired both practitioners and a new breed of self-optimizers.

• Biohacking Culture & Brian Johnson:
  Social media’s relentless promotion of wild longevity tactics, especially embodied in biohacker Brian Johnson’s public quest.

  “Piles of pills and powders...This human machine lives for data.” — Mangesh, [34:02] “My Dunedin pace of aging is only 0.65 and his is something like 0.62. So I’m like close to him and I do almost nothing that he does.” — Dr. Primus, [35:59]

• Preventive Medicine — More Than Just Cost:
  Dr. Primus’s intake process is thorough and lifestyle oriented—raising the question, shouldn’t all preventive care be this engaged, not just for the wealthy?

6. Confronting Hard Truths

• Personal Health Wake-Up Call:
  Mangesh’s test results are not as rosy as hoped; he is told he’s nearly obese and needs to make sweeping changes: fasting, tracking, more sleep, exercising, etc.

  “You’re almost on the obese side...it just takes some work.” — Dr. Primus, [39:08] “I’m skeptical I can pull this off.” — Mangesh, [40:20]

• Hope From a Patient Story:
  Dr. Primus recounts a patient with Alzheimer’s who rebounded using a multi-pronged approach (diet, hyperbaric chamber, brain games), holding out a kernel of hope.

7. Intergenerational Stories & the Meaning of Enough

• Grandfather’s Legacy:
  A poignant segment about the death of Mangesh’s grandfather and the comfort in a legacy that resonates across time and continents.

  “If you can live in a way that your grandkids...wants to mirror the best parts of you, well, then maybe 60 or 70 years is enough.” — Mangesh, [45:01]

• Balancing Acceptance & Possibility:
  While Mangesh once felt content with “enough time,” his family’s desire for him to strive for more—along with the constant buzz of new scientific breakthroughs—pushes him to reconsider.

  “Doesn’t my family deserve that? ...I might as well chase those secrets down.” — Mangesh, [46:55]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Futility and Hope of Living Forever:
  “To live forever is just a fantasy.” — Dr. Nir Barzilai, [06:30]
• On the Shifting Norms of Aging:
  “Matt Damon as Odysseus is not feeble. He’s 55 and ripped…” — Mangesh, [13:32]
• On the Cost of Care:
  “Clients here aren’t concerned with prices.” — Mangesh, describing Dr. Primus’s Upper East Side office, [29:47]
• On Generational Trauma:
  “Generational traumas due to colonization.” — Genetics expert, [04:51]
• On the Value of Joy:
  “We’ve done so many fun things and so many weird things, and it’s just been, like, very joyous...I don’t regret things that I’ve done.” — Mangesh, [19:05]
• Interlude of Grandfather’s Memory:
  “He was so loving and sensitive...If you can do that in 72 years...that feels like enough time.” — Mangesh, [45:01]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Prologue and Framing: Childhood, aging, and family ([02:02] - [06:30])
• TV & Pop Culture on Aging: Golden Girls, Clapper, shift in images of age ([10:06] - [14:41])
• Astrologer's Death Prediction: Influence on Mangesh & family ([15:31] - [20:01])
• Ruby’s Thoughts on Mortality: Generational perspectives ([20:28] - [22:04])
• Science of Aging with Dr. Barzilai: Biological vs Chronological age ([23:28] - [29:47])
• Longevity Medicine Clinic: Dr. Primus’s story, Brian Johnson, and the industry ([31:08] - [35:59])
• Hard Conversation — Health Check: Sobering results for Mangesh ([39:08] - [40:19])
• Revival Story: Alzheimer’s patient and hope ([40:52] - [41:37])
• India and Grandfather: Values, enoughness, and meaning ([43:29] - [46:55])
• Season Preview: Biohacking, scientific frontiers, ongoing questions ([48:29] - [49:55])

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Tone and Style

The episode deftly intertwines humor, earnestness, nostalgia, and skepticism. Mangesh’s narration is conversational and reflective—often switching comfortably between scientific literacy and self-deprecating family banter. The guests, especially Dr. Barzilai and Dr. Primus, are direct but affable, providing both tough truths and tangible optimism.

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• The pursuit of longevity is as much about meaning and memory as it is about medicine.
• The definition of "old" has radically changed in both society and science, but the dream of living forever is not without trade-offs.
• Intergenerational dreams, health advances, family, and personal joy all compete in shaping how we think about time.
• As the season promises, the answers about life extension are being sought by pioneers on scientific, spiritual, and personal fronts—and Mangesh’s journey will continue to untangle the allure, science, and soul of the “longevinaut” dream.

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Transcript

[Mangesh Tighadur]

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[Mangesh Tighadur]

Kaleidoscope

[Narrator/Host]

warning. Despite Mangesh's grandmother's greatest wish, he is 100% not a doctor and nothing in this episode should count as medical advice. You will, however, hear about looks, maxing colonialism, and there will be references to the Golden Girls and the Odyssey. There will also be disclosure of one or more annoying astrological predictions, as well as adult language and mention of suicide. So sensitive listeners, take care.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Yeah, I can never die like this. Yeah, I can never die like this. Oh my God.

[Dog Owner]

Clipper.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

Yes. I'm going to live twice.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Hi, I'm Mangish and I am so happy you're here. I've had a heck of a year, so let me catch you up real quick. Anna, would you pull up the deck? Silon Valley loves the deck. This is a show about longevity. These are some things I heard over and over again. We can still be doing a triathlon at 90 or 100. The maximum lifespan just keeps increasing faster than you age. And then somebody figures out how to stop us from dying permanently. Longevity sort of feels like this rarefied tech bro, brainchild of the already wealthy, already healthy individuals that somewhat selfishly want to live an extra few decades. I think death is a great evil and I think it takes people away

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

from us way too soon.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

See, everyone wants to live forever. This is me as a kid reading 3, 2, 1, contact. I liked it because it was filled with weird science and discoveries and facts. The very matter that makes this Is Me now Still obsessed with weird science and discoveries and facts. Except red giants. My hair is gray, my face is rounder. I'm lucky to have a wife and kids who make me smile.

[Ruby (Mangesh's child)]

You don't look bad, you know, like you have untapped potential.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Right, of course. And I guess I'm supposed to be a grown up. But I can't believe I'm 47. I mean, I do get more tired. My reflexes aren't what they used to be, but my spirit, that's a different story. I always have a pen on me for doodling. When I sit at the front of a bus, I like to inch my toe slowly over the do not cross line because it's harmless. Also, I don't really like being told what to do. This is my childhood friend Jathan. He's a rule breaker too. I'm actually a superhero now.

[Ruby (Mangesh's child)]

I know.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Can't wait for you to come back and see how I can scale walls. And I have X ray vision now. There's a new peptide. He's lost weight, has loads of energy. And honestly, I don't want to live forever. But what Chathan has. That sounds appealing. That's where my journey begins. This is a longevity doctor I saw while working on this show.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

This is how much fat you have. It's like 9kg, which is a lot. You know, you're almost on the obese side.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

This is a genetics expert telling me trauma lives in your epigenetics for eight generations. We see Indians aging faster, probably because of generational traumas due to colonization.

[Narrator/Host]

So.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

So even if I take a lot of pills, colonialism kind of screwed me. This is my great grandmother. She saw it all. Colonial rule, world wars, partition, independence. Generations of family, both entering and passing. When I was a kid, I thought she was the coolest. She was funny and surly and drank strong coffee with her morning newspaper. She loved Callan and Hobbes and hated to lose its gravel. The fact that she lived to 103 felt like an achievement. But these days, when I talk to Biopunks and Longevonauts, 103 barely seems worth bragging about. This is a graph of people who've lived past 120. There's only one of them. Jean Calment from France. She was a smoker. This is a graph of the number of people scientists expect to live past their 110s in the year 2080. That's 300,000 people right there. These are some old people. We asked for advice. I look in the mirror and I give my Girl, a rink.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

See?

[Mangesh Tighadur]

You look all right, girl, we can do this.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

I learned my lessons from my grandmother and my dad.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Keep it moving.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

To live forever is just a fantasy.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

So, yeah, I might as well. Can I fly too? This is a biohacker who injected himself with cow brains just to see the effect. We've got all these peptides right here, and I'm gonna inject this one into him. And I go, yeah, he is. This is a scientist who thinks some men are overdoing it. MRI scans are like horoscopes for tech

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

Bros.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

And this is where I find myself eventually talking to a startup founder who lives on an island populated mostly by monkeys. She's going to make her dad heart attack proof, and she wants to do the same for you. So I'm like, wait, could I grow him a new heart that will never develop heart disease because I genetically engineered it that, like, stage one. This year, my friends and I set out to make a show about longevity. I wanted to go to Blue Zones and MIT and meet people at the fringes who were developing new drugs and new therapies. I wanted to investigate the line between substance and snake oil. And hear from folks implanting computer chips into their arms. And the young scientists trying to replace their brains with a totally new one. One cell at a time. Not people who just talk about the future, but are brave enough to actually do it. This is a show about life, but really it's a story about time. The time we have, the time we think we have and the ways as human beings. We're still asking for an extension from Kaleidoscope and iheartradio. I'm Mangesha Tighadur. Welcome to Skyline Drive. How to Live Forever. Chapter one, the new 50. If you asked me in third grade, Mrs. Fletcher was the definition of old. You remember Mrs. Fletcher?

[Dr. Ron Primus]

Fletcher.

[Narrator/Host]

Right.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

I've fallen, and I can't get up for sending help immediately. Mrs. Fletcher, back in the 1980s, these Life Call commercials were always on TV. And they've really drilled into this idea that anyone who was older and living alone was constantly on the precipice of some massive accident. In home accidents last year, over 3 million people were disabled. 100,000 people either suffered permanent disabilities or died. Stairs, slippery floors, a bunched carpet. These were all treated like murder weapons. And the commercials were so melodramatic. You can see why they became a national punchline. I'm falling.

[Ken Reid]

I can't get up.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

All that's to say, I've been thinking about those commercials a lot. And it's made me wonder, did old age on TV look older than it does now? So I called up my friend, the comedian Ken Reid.

[Ken Reid]

I more or less on every issue of TV Guide magazine like a normal person.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Ken has been making his podcast TV guidance counselor for more than a decade. So he seemed like the perfect person for me to run my theory by. I'm about to turn 47 and I was trying to imagine, like, what was old age on TV as a kid, like, what was my perception of it. And the thing I kept coming back to was the I've fallen and I can't get up commercial.

[Ken Reid]

Yeah, yeah. That was what we all had to look forward to. Being alone and injured and your. Your family doesn't remember you or care about you anymore.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Just to be clear, this was never how I pictured my own old age. As a third grader, I just assumed I'd be living this very able bodied, Sherlock Holmes esque life, you know, like playing music and chess, solving mysteries with my best friend, wearing a lot of tweed. Not exactly life call territory. I mean, I didn't know about this and I don't know if you did before, but when I did some research, like it was a true story. Like the woman who played Ms. Fletcher was named Edith Foer and she had actually fallen. Yeah, yeah.

[Ken Reid]

Although it was a dramatic recreation, I don't think she hit her head on every step like she does in the actual recreation. But yeah. And it's funny for a lot of reasons. That's such a weird snapshot because a, it's pre Internet, pre cell phone. So like, I think people younger than us now would be like, why do you need that if you fall? Like, doesn't your phone automatically send in the military?

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Yeah, no. Like, you look at that commercial and you think this woman is not leaving her house. Like, maybe she gets escorted to like a piano recital or something every once in a while, you know, I mean,

[Ken Reid]

you and I, we're the same exact age almost. My birthday's in June and I'll be 47 somehow. And my dad's in his early 70s and yeah, I mean, obviously he doesn't look like a sevent something year old woman from the mid-80s generally, but I don't think of them in the same way. And part of its perception as well,

[Mangesh Tighadur]

I was looking back and I didn't realize that like Edith Bunker on All in the Family dies at like age 50 of a stroke. Yeah, like the idea that they used to kill off beloved characters who were not that much older than me. Feels bonkers. Or here's another example. As a kid, the Golden Girls seemed like the oldest people on tv. Three senior citizens and one of their mothers tucked away in Florida. I just assumed they were in their 70s, proving that you can teach an old dog new tricks and if anyone knows about tricks. But when I researched it, Rue McClanahan, who played Blanche, was just 51.

[Ken Reid]

You know, like Mona. Mona from who's the Boss? Prime example, right? The whole joke on that was, was like, she's sex craze and she's an old lady and she's like 50 maybe.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

What's hard to swallow though, isn't just that 50 was considered old age. It's also how fragile 50 used to seem.

[Ken Reid]

When you go back and look at Clapper ads, they're mostly focused on old people at the beginning because why wouldn't they be? It's like, hey, you're old. You can't get up and turn all the light off.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Amazing. I mean, I remember the Clapper phenomena, but I had not realized that it was targeted at old people. That's really.

[Ken Reid]

Oh yeah. The first few ads, it's like old people in Craftmatic chairs clapping because they're falling asleep in their chair.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

They want to shut the light off

[Ken Reid]

because you'll live alone and you're really old at 50.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

But think about what those mid-50s look like now. Matt Damon as Odysseus is not feeble. He's 55 and ripped and in the best shape of his life. But also think about how much better we all look. Our skin is better. The air quality is better. There's less pollution. We haven't been exposed to homes full of cigarette smoke. Our food has less trans fats. And those are hard won battles that turned into real public health wins. We also just care more. We use moisturizers and eye creams and inject things like Botox. And that shows up not just in how we look, but in the stories we tell. Ken told me that TV shows about seniors took a turn too. It used to be that stories about older people focused on struggle.

[Ken Reid]

It was almost like all your resources are gone. Now everyone you knew was gone, so you need help because it's just like nothing.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

It's just left.

[Ken Reid]

Yeah, and then they kind of focused it on second chances or like a second act.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

And now it seems like everyone's pushing for third and fourth acts. But at some point, doesn't every story have to end? Chapter 2 another prediction. Making a show is a funny thing. On one hand, I don't think I've listened to Skyline Drive since we made it. At least not the hard parts.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

Situation doesn't look good for father. There is risk to father. He should take every possible care.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Back then, I thought I was making a show about astrology. And then my dad passed and the show ended up being about something else. About death and how to accept, to grieve, how to hope again. And also how astrology was this prism to do all of that. But I have re listened to the interviews and there's something wonderful about having these records of chats with my mom or my friends. Things we said, but I don't remember. And recently, looking back through old recordings, I stumbled into something odd. A tape of a tantric astrologer I met in Chennai. For me, this was one of the most meaningful parts of the show. That year, I had heard a prediction about my dad's death and it came true. And as part of this astrologer's apprenticeship, he had to predict the exact time his father would die. And that came true as well.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

And he told me, as a guru, I'm asking you when I will die. I'm asking you, you see? And tell me. And unfortunately, I was the person who told that you'll have a cardiac arrest.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

It may sound silly or fantastical, but in that moment, I felt so connected to him by this strange, invisible string of our shared experience. He told me with sadness how he didn't want to be accurate about his father, but he was. And how certain fates etched into the stars are undeniable. That's the part I remember. But as I re listened, I heard another part of our conversation. A part I'd forgotten.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

So from 2034 of 10th month till 2039 of 3rd month, you will retain what you are. Then. Boom. End of this life.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Sorry to say this, it turns out that July 29, 2039, is a critical date. And if I somehow happen to make

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

it past that, you may live for other four to five years, but there will be some kind of issues.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

So if I trust his interpretation of the stars, I have an expiration date of 64 years. Which, you know, not bad. Could be worse. Or at least that's what I thought when I told my wife. Except maybe I regret sharing my revelation with Lizzie because while I fell asleep pretty quickly after my bedtime confession, the conversation kept her up and she can't let it go. So we talked about it a little later.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

I don't know if you noticed, you keep laughing. I don't think I've laughed once. I Don't find this funny at all.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

I mean, either it'll happen or it won't happen.

[Ruby (Mangesh's child)]

Right?

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

You're deflecting. You're deflecting because my beef is not with the fact that he predicted it, and you weren't mad that he predicted it.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

I don't know. If I get 64 years of life, that's okay.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

It's wonderful, like, to not take things for granted and.

[Ruby (Mangesh's child)]

Yeah.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

And be present.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

And be present. But no, I'm not okay with that. Especially because our children would not be very old at that point.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

I mean, I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard. Obviously, it'd be difficult.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

You were in your 40s. So you want your children to have less time with their father than you had with your father?

[Mangesh Tighadur]

No, but, like, in the context of, like, I don't know, we made space ninja suits on a snow day.

[Ruby (Mangesh's child)]

Right?

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Like, we. We've done so many fun things and so many weird things, and it's just been, like, very joyous and so I'm sure it would be difficult, but, like, I don't regret things that I've done.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

No, of course not. I'm just saying I'm voting for you. Sticking your ass.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Okay, okay. But it isn't just Lizzie who has feelings about my early departure. She and my friend Chathan started talking about this prediction.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

Onegish's general attitude about all of this is like, yeah, that's fine.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

What's wrong with him? Why would he be. Why he'd be okay with that? So, of course Chathan wants to talk to me. I am a little concerned about your health. I think we're at this age where, like, we don't get a whole lot more free passes as we both approach our mid-40s.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

Right.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Our early 50s is what we're fucking approaching.

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

Yeah.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Our health is, like, a slow burn in terms of decline. I don't know if this is true, but I feel like I played a lot more sport than you, and so I feel like I wore down my body more than you might have. So I guess my lack of athletic ability is finally coming to my advantage. Like, I was good at math and bad at sports, and finally, like, that's, like, working out for me somehow. Everyone's got thoughts, even my kid.

[Narrator/Host]

Ruby.

[Ruby (Mangesh's child)]

Why are you doing a podcast that, like, helps you find out when Anu's gonna die? Like, isn't that sad?

[Mangesh Tighadur]

I mean, that would be a sad podcast, but even when we corrected Ruby about the topic, they still had an opinion.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

Do you want Anu to live longer than he might.

[Ruby (Mangesh's child)]

Yeah, I do. I think you shouldn't take your life for granted.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

Do you want to live a long time?

[Ruby (Mangesh's child)]

I would like to live long. I think it would be nice. But I also think it would be sad to grow and like, have a lot of people who you love, like, leave. Yeah.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

You don't think you'd want to be the last one left?

[Ruby (Mangesh's child)]

No.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

I'm a lot like Ruby. I figure when it's over, it's over. And I've never really thought about negotiating for extra time. The thing is, I do love to push a deadline. I'm a writer, after all. Plus, I was semi famous in high school for being able to get teachers to push back tests for our classes. So maybe I'll fall back on old habits when I get to 60. I don't know. What I do know is I feel out of sync with my social feeds. The noise is just oppressive. With influencers and looks maxers and billionaires and talking heads all chattering about azempic and life hacks and. And living forever. You just cannot escape it. So it's comforting to hear my kid talking about the future the way I do.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

Do you have an idea of how old you'll be when you're very old?

[Ruby (Mangesh's child)]

I want to get to my late 80s and hopefully 90s, but I don't want to like hang on by a thread just to live longer. I want to like, enjoy it. And when it's done, it's done. I mean, look at Joe snuck a dude. She doesn't need longevity. She's like thriving.

[Podcast Advertiser]

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[Mangesh Tighadur]

Chapter 3100 Candles

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

there are a few things I want to talk with you about before we start. Sure. For example, I usually walk like that with untucked shirts.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

Perfect.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

Okay.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Is that better for age? I think it's.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

I want to reflect youth. Okay. Okay.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Dr. Nir Barzilai is 70, has a boyish charm with a mischievous sense of humor. On his office wall, there's an Austin Powers poster that his students have Photoshopped him into because there's a clear resemblance. But his super spy looks aren't the reason I'm talking to Near. Near has been obsessed with one problem since he was a kid.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

What happens that you grow up and then you get old?

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Which is funny to me. Like, what's to wonder? Isn't that life? But not denier? Which put him ahead of the curve when it was time to choose a residency after med school and there were no age, right.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

I'm one of the first, so there was nobody that I could go and say, train me. We had to kind of invent that.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

He started in endocrinology, the study of hormones, because he had a hunch that since hormones go up as we grow and then go down as we age.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

And I thought, wow, maybe if you just supplement those hormones, you'll stop the aging process. Which proved to be largely wrong.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

Okay.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

But it gave me enough knowledge to know how to ask the next questions.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

And then fast forward. He's the director of the aging center at the Albert Einstein School of Medicine in the Bronx.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

When you don't have a lot of competition, you can become a leader really fast.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Nier says the modern science of aging geroscience really kicked off with one observation.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

If you take any animal and give some of the brothers or sisters to eat whatever they want, and the others you caloric restrict them, they live much healthier and much longer.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

This was one of the original breakthroughs in aging science. Longevity. Researchers at places like ucsf, MIT and the Buck Institute were trying to understand why low calorie diets made worms and mice and other creatures live longer. And they uncovered key mechanisms of aging, from telomere attrition to cellular damage. Things that later became part of what we now call the hallmarks of aging. Because by itself, starve the mice and they live longer. Isn't exactly useful medical insight.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

Because of course, telling people to eat 40% less is not going to work.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

And along the way, they started to understand something wildly important that had nothing to do with mice diets. This thing we all know on an intuitive level that not all people age at the same rate. Meaning your driver's license and your blood panels might not say the same thing.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

There is a biological age and a chronological age. And a 75 year old woman can be with all systems totally fucked up. And a 90 year old person that maybe a little bit of antibiotics, he can get to age hundred.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Also, as your biological age increases, so does your risk for the big four diseases of cancer, Alzheimer's, heart disease, and diabetes.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

This biology of aging drives diseases. In other words, it's not that you get disease and you get old. You get old with the years, and this biology brings out the disease.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

This is the biggest idea behind the current longevity revolution. If you can slow aging, maybe you can keep sickness at bay a little longer and death even further off. I wanted to talk to Nir, especially because he founded the Longevity Genes Project, a landmark study of over 500 centenarians and their children to witness the benefits of slow aging up close. Nir knows this 106 year old in finance who still goes to work every day. Siblings who've reached 109 centenarians who were smokers and overweight. And by studying all these slow agers in the wild, Nir realized he could figure out how to learn the secrets of aging well and make drugs and other recommendations to help those of us born without those lucky genes.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

So we had 35 years to realize, and those centenarians have realized probably 20 of those. So what can we learn from them?

[Mangesh Tighadur]

And what they learned is a few things. They learned that there's a strong genetic factor, as in, if your parents lived a long time, you're pretty likely to as well. And it doesn't even have to be both parents. It can even be one grandparent. And that there are some strong links about having high hdl. Though Nir has feelings about cholesterol, Lipid

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

is very boring subject. I want to get over it.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

But there was another learning from his centenarians that truly stunned him.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

They were sick very little time at the end of their lives. Of our centenarians, 30% didn't have any disease and didn't take any medications.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

If you can crack this longevity code, you can reduce not only medical costs, but also suffering. And honestly, if there's a correlation between extending my life and not spending my final years getting sick or in hospitals, I'm in. Before I take my leave, I have one more question. One thing I was curious about is your own aging.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

And why would you be curious about my own Aging? I'm 70 years old. I have no interest in retiring. Okay. I feel like I'm in the prime of my activities, but I'm also practicing very aggressively longevity medicine. So how am I doing that? I have a longevity doctor. Okay. Because I don't want to have a fool as a client. Right.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Chapter 4 the other shoe. Doctor Ron Primus's office is on the Upper east side with a view of Central park and a mini waterfall. But the thing that really catches my eye A framed profile of Dr. Primus from some years ago titled the Doctor is Out Celebrating his work, doing house calls for the rich and famous. Allegedly, Dr. Primus was one of the inspirations for that USA TV show Royal Pains. And I do feel like royalty. Dr. Primus has generously waived his fees. But when my producer asks about costs for the tests he runs, the staff doesn't know offhand because clients here aren't concerned with prices. As Dr. Primus enters the room, he's asking his assistant about his meals. He's on this very specific feed schedule. He tells me he's short and trim and good looking. And as he organizes his desk and pulls out a laptop, I launch in with the big question. Why longevity?

[Dr. Ron Primus]

Everybody's got a story, right?

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Right.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

And like, my mother died when I was a kid of leukemia, my grandmother died of leukemia, her father died of leukemia. And so I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

And then he goes to med school.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

I mean, clearly you have patients that have genetic propensity for cancer and things like that, but, you know, barring those patients, almost everybody else is in there of their own device, like handguns, you know, car accidents, drinking and driving, whatever. Just, I was like, there's gotta be a better way.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

So he gets into preventive medicine and public health, ends up directing an AIDS clinic. But then he has a revelation.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

I read Ray Kurzweil's book with Terry Grossman called Transcend, and I was like, this makes a lot of sense.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

And this, this is what leads Dr. Primus to fall down the longevity rabbit hole, this glimpse into a not so distant future. Kurzweil is the computer scientist and futurist who, among other things, it helped popularize a concept that would come to be known as longevity escape philosophy.

[Dr. Nir Barzilai]

If you're diligent, you'll use up a year of your longevity with a year passing. But you'll get back a full year

[Mangesh Tighadur]

and past 2029, you'll get back more than a year. I feel like you go backwards in time. It's a heady concept, but the idea of basically not aging or getting time back, it's one that feels less far fetched in an age of AI and miracle drugs. But just hearing the name Ray Kurzweil makes me realize how embedded and entwined with Silicon Valley ideology the whole longevity movement seems to. As Dr. Primus digs deeper into the field and starts testing out ideas, he sees the impact on himself.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

I was overweight. I was about 50 pounds bigger than this at my heaviest. And no matter what I was like, could not lose the weight.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

By his early 30s, Dr. Primus is very dialed in on optimizing his health. He's mastered his diet, exercise, sleep.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

Because of all of this, my personal health trajectory, like, I'm like the poster boy for longevity, right? So Brian Johnson spends like what, a couple million dollars a year on himself, right? And I spend nothing just to break

[Mangesh Tighadur]

here for a second. Every single person I've told about this podcast has wanted to talk to me about Brian Johnson. And I feel like in every conversation he's just this looming WWE character getting hyped backstage for his walk in. Ladies and gentlemen, making his way to the ring from the biohacking lab of the future, the founder of the Don't Die movement. A man so incredible, he doesn't chase greatness. He tracks it by the millisecond while you mortals are still asleep. He's awake at 4:30am, optimizing human existence when you're having a second cup of coffee. He's finishing dinner at 11 in the morning because science said so. Piles of pills and powders. And every day, precision workouts, blood therapies, red light therapies. Because he could eat for pleasure, he could sleep for comfort. He could choose not to keep track of every erection he has every night. Instead, this human machine lives for data. So hide your sugar, lock up your processed carbs, because stepping into the ring tonight, it is the blueprint, the uber biohacker, the man who refuses to die by Brian Johnson. Brian Johnson is so pervasive in culture that somehow even my kid Ruby knows about him.

[Ruby (Mangesh's child)]

Yeah, I know about.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

What do you know about Brian Johnson?

[Ruby (Mangesh's child)]

He's doing all this stuff. And didn't he like, take his kids like one, right, to make him feel or be younger, Which I think, again, that's a lot to do.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

Are you gonna give a new blood? No, I don't think he wants it.

[Ruby (Mangesh's child)]

I'm keeping it to myself.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

All that's to say, Brian Johnson has single handedly done more to popularize the idea of living forever than any other modern human. And he supposedly slowed his aging to a reported 0.503. Aging half a year for every year he lives. That's all according to the Dunedin pace clock, the gold standard for tracking how you're aging biologically. But Dr. Primus says it doesn't take 100 pills and $2 million a year to compete with that. Not even close.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

I just train really hard. I eat really healthy, I sleep eight hours a day, I take a bunch of Supplements. And my Dunedin pace of aging is only 0.65 and his is something like 0.62. So I'm like close to him and I do almost nothing that he does.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Dr. Primus tells me that his clientele fall into two groups. It's either these Brian Johnson inspired men in their 30s who want to live forever, or people in their 80s and 90s who want to live as well and long as they can. It turns out people like me are an outlier. Not a lot of 47 year olds in that mix. Then the exam begins. Over the course of the next hour, Dr. Primus starts peppering me with questions. We go through some of my family history, which I'm expecting.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

Any alcoholism?

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Yeah, there's. There's alcoholism in the family.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

Who?

[Mangesh Tighadur]

My dad.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

Sad.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

Any suicides?

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Yes. I debate how deep I need to go to tell him about my genius cousin my age who took his life, or one of my grandaunts who jumped down a well. The fact is, my family never talked about addiction or depression, so I don't really know how to get into it with him. We talk about my dad's cancer and how much I drink. Not that much these days. Also, what else runs in my family? Diabetes, High blood pressure.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

Which brings me to the next question. So, do you have a fire extinguisher or a fire blanket in your kitchen when you cook? Yes. And do you wear a seatbelt in the car all the time?

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

Even an Uber or taxi? Yeah. Do you go on a bike at all?

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

Barely.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

Do you have a helmet? Yes. Any firearms in the house?

[Mangesh Tighadur]

No.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

You know, people have it. You gotta make sure you keep the safety on and that sort of thing. It's important.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

It's funny, these are such simple questions, but also so different from the 15 minute cursory checkup I'm used to getting. Is this a glimpse into what preventive care could look like for everyone? None of this costs any money. What it costs is time. How many lives would be saved if everyone's doctor asked them these questions? When we finish, we go into another room. I put on a paper gown and we do a series of tests. Some have me standing on something that looks like a scale, gripping onto what feels like a handlebar of a bike. Some are blood draws, some are just routine eye and ear things. Takes about 20 minutes. And then we walk out. It's December 8th and I'm feeling pretty good in the exam room. My eyes and ears checked out, my lungs sounded fine, There didn't seem to be any irregularities. And sure I was expecting, like, maybe a little note that I'm getting older. Maybe a pat on the back for playing tennis and walking so much. Instead, I hear this.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

This is your fat mass index. This is how much fat you have. Totally. And it's like 9kg, which is a lot. You know, you're almost on the obese side. Waist circumference is definitely high for you. This is body composition chart. You want to be down there, not there. So it just takes some work.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

The whole thing is kind of a gut punch. I'm hearing about how unhealthy I am. He's encouraging, but also sounding the alarm. I need to control the things I can control and start putting real effort into them or risk losing gears. He tells me to intermittent fast and to start tracking everything. As he's telling me all this, I feel overwhelmed.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

You track your data at all? I feel like a watch and whoop or bio strap work really well. You should wear a glucose monitor just to kind of stay on top of it. Keep your apartment at, like, 62 degrees and walk around with, like, little. A constant sleep schedule. And you're trying not to nap. So you strength training? I've been chronic or stomach medication. So you got your work cut out a little bit.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

Ugh.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

I'm skeptical I can pull this off. Like, I can take a pill. A pill is easy. I can show up for injections, but sleeping at regular times for eight hours, breaking my day for cold plunges, finding time to exercise. How am I going to do any of that? Then I think about what's at risk and who's giving me the advice. Dr. Primus tells me he had an older patient who was very high functioning and had the markers for Alzheimer's. And then he had a sudden decline.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

I was like, wow, something's wrong. He went off the cliff. Like, he literally was good, good, good. And then bam. So I was like, look, we got to do something about this.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

So Dr. Primus teams up with his friend Nir, who is also his patient, and they send the man to a third friend in Tel Aviv.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

Nir has a friend called Shai Efrati there. Shai has this protocol for Alzheimer's patients using hyperbaric. And he had intensive four months daily Hyperbaric. I put him on a keto diet,

[Mangesh Tighadur]

and then with a tweak to his diet, daily sessions in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber and a regimen of games and apps to stimulate his brain. Dr. Primus tells me that in just

[Dr. Ron Primus]

four months, he's completely back to normal. All of the testing that they did showed dramatic improvements.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

And as I gather my things to leave, I keep returning to this story. Maybe it's just that an anecdote, an n of 1. But I can't stop being excited by the possibilities. So I started thinking about bellying up to my to do list from Dr. Primus. And then as I'm walking out into the brisk December air, I get one more gentle nudge towards the future. We bump into another of Dr. Primus patients, this man who looks to be in his 80s. He tells us his mother is also a client. She's 106 and is hard to keep up with on the dance floor. I really don't want to go to the gym, but being able to dance until the end of your life, that seems like a wonderful thing.

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[Mangesh Tighadur]

Chapter 5 the Odyssey of It all so remember that part where my wife and my child were complaining about me being okay with my life sentence of 64? There's one more thing I need to tell you. Every few years, whenever we could afford it, my mom would take us to India for a whole summer. For us, India was this bizarro world with completely different rules. A place of pure chaos and colors. At the edges of my grandparents lush garden beyond bougainvillea and the tall jamun trees, you could spot mongoose and beautiful gray langur monkeys. At night you sneaked into bed under these lacy mosquito nets that hung from the bed frames like some Victorian relic. And of all the people in the house, I was most enamored with my grandfather who bridged all these incredible worlds. I love that he was this gentleman who studied botany at Oxford and kept volumes of National Geographics on the bookcase and played weekly bridge games with his friends on the veranda. And I loved how magical time with him could be like late one night how he woke me up and led me outside to peek at a Bethlehem lily, this flower he'd been cultivating that only opens once a year in moonlight. Or hearing him talk about his adventures as a chief of forestry, how he'd briefly fostered some bear cubs at home because he'd found them abandoned in the woods. Or how he'd killed a king cobra that was attacking him, how he tried to shoot it as it raced towards him, and when he missed, he took his rifle and turned it around and swung it like a cricket bat, knocking the creature out. But more than any of that, I loved that he was so loving and sensitive, too, that he had this deep empathy for others. When I was nine, he was taking a bus to visit a salt mine. He breathed in deeply and in a minute disappeared from a heart attack. When I heard the news, I was devastated. On the bus where he passed away, the young man recognized the initials and last name on his briefcase and stayed to lend a hand. His father had been in the forestry service too, and my Aja had helped him when he became disabled and couldn't work. And I always thought, if you can do that in 72 years, if you can live in a way that your grandkids several continents away, growing up in a completely different culture, wants to mirror the best parts of you, well, then maybe 60 or 70 years is enough. That feels like enough time. And that's how I felt and lived my life. 47 years, in fact. Happy to savor the time I have, making the most of it. But then there's this.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

I would prefer for you to plan on and work as if we're going to live, you know, much longer lives together.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

How can I ignore that? Because what if Chathan and Nier and Dr. Primus and yes, even that WWE wrestler looming in the back of my head are right? What if I could prove the astrologer wrong and defeat death by a year or 10 or 20. Doesn't my family deserve that? Right now? There are scientists using dancing molecules to make paraplegic mice walk again. There are geneticists curing babies of lifelong diseases before they'll take their first steps. There are entrepreneurs designing new drugs, delivering miracles in labs. And there are ways world leaders talking on hot mics about how they might extend their lives and reigns by 75 years or longer. And I don't know if there's a pill or an injection or a transplant that's going to give us an endless life. But I keep hearing about these secrets that only scientists and the elite know about right now. They sometimes don't like going on the record just because of the nature of what they do. And since I still have a little time on my hands, I might as well chase those secrets down. This season on how to live forever. So you have a testable brain essentially in a feature dish.

[Ruby (Mangesh's child)]

Right?

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

Please be gentle, you guys. It totally does work. People were just filling up their bottles.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

I learned about da Vinci writing his notebooks mirrored. So that just seemed like the pure,

[Podcast Advertiser]

most symmetric form of just physically developing.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

16 floors, but 8 of them are themed.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

We have a floor for AI, floor for crypto, floor for longevity, and so on.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

I told him I'm new to the building and was here for an event, and he asked me, point blankly, if I want to live forever.

[Dr. Ron Primus]

From 22 to 25, I have frozen blood samples and data of how my plasma proteins and also my immune cells have changed.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

The more weights, the more muscle loss. You're almost there. So what age am I at right now? You can kind of see the appeal of it. You want to try and get as much as you can, but then you're also downplaying every single other element of your existence. Our families and the people we work with and the people that we see in the street, you know, are those maybe the more important parts of our existence?

[Dr. Ron Primus]

Everybody holds each other up with their arms. They're holding each other up so they can do these more difficult movements.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

One of the cool things about death is that it completes the story. I mean, I want to say, is it really a story without an end? Yeah, I can never die like this. Yeah, I can never die like this.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

Yes, I'm gonna live twice.

[Narrator/Host]

Phew.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

We did it. Thank you so much for listening. I feel so lucky to be making a show. I have so many people to thank. Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeart podcast. This show is hosted and written by me, Mangesha Tiglor, with a ton of help, like so much help from these wonderful humans. Lizzie Jacobs, AKA my wife, who I'm so lucky to have conned into leading this production and spending a lifetime with me. I also have massive, massive help from the most talented and most cat loving Mary, Philip, Sandy, and the unbelievably packed in science producer Mark Stephen Allen, who knows everyone from congressmen to exiled journalists to superstar kids in Brooklyn who have put magnets into their hands. Mark Lotto is the very, very best story editor who had to go away to a hammock on an island just to handle editing me. That's how rough it is. This episode was mixed by our genius pal Anna from Computer City Productions with lush and wondrous scoring from Botany Spencer. How could we do this without you? Also, the beautiful Indian hip hop is courtesy of Azadi Records who is so amazing and there are gorgeous tracks from the artist Bliss, Samsa Mo and Nathan.

[Lizzie (Mangesh's wife)]

Thank you.

[Mangesh Tighadur]

Thank you so much. If you want to hear more we made you a mixtape. You just have to check out the show Notes Additional Production Research support from the wonderful Lucas Riley. The show is executive produced from iheart by my good friends Ali Perry and Katrina Norvell. The show would not have happened without the support of my friends at Kaleidoscope, starting with my business partner pal Ozwar Lishen who somehow still believes in the show. Julian Metter is our head of Student studio and has been bearing with me and passing along so many great story notes. Costas Linos, thank you so much for keeping the lights on with a smile making everything go smoothly. Costas, you are the best. Kate Osborne for getting the show off the ground. Thank you Kate Rachel Strom, we owe you so big. You are the very best lawyer and neighbor and human. Also Christy, David, Sheena, Dara, Calypso, Alex Viney for coming out for retirement to do the beautiful collage art again. Anyone who lent a hand, there are way too many of you. I also want to give a little special thanks to all the kiddos who bore with us through this production. Henry, Ruby, my two little maniacs who now yell off the record at me at the dining table. Also Julian Grendel, Lou Little, Enzo and Pearl Etor. All my friends at iHeart including Bob Connell, Will, Carrie, Nikki, Jason, Jerry and more. My New York and Atlanta cruise. There are too many to name. Also Shanta, Sarah, my family in India, my family in the States. The very very biggest thank you to Josh Clark from the legendary podcast Stuff. You should know Josh read this episode's warning and he once told me he hated his voice until someone told him he sounded like a Muppet. So from one Muppet to another, thank you so much. I just want to say thank you to my teachers, Mrs. Leary and Ms. Anderson, who were just two of the greatest elementary school teachers ever. They made me believe my talents, made me fall in love with creative projects and for some reason they still listen and root for me. The world needs more teachers and people like you. And just one last thank you to my amma and my dad Lalitha N. Omeshatikadur who I thank my lucky stars for. Thank you so much for listening.

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[Mangesh Tighadur]

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