Shell Game — Episode 2: Me and My Scammer

Date: July 16, 2024
Host: Evan Ratliff
Podcast by: iHeartPodcasts and Kaleidoscope

Episode Overview

In “Me and My Scammer,” journalist Evan Ratliff continues his hands-on exploration of AI and work by turning the tables on the ever-persistent scammers. After cloning his own voice with an AI-powered agent, Evan sets out to confront the onslaught of robocalls and phone scams head-on — but with an AI doppelganger answering the phone.

Through a sequence of real scam calls and experiments, Evan examines:

• The current state and evolution of phone-based scams in America.
• How AI voice agents (both his and those used by scammers) are changing the landscape of fraud.
• The strange new battleground where artificial voices deceive (and waste the time of) both humans and other AIs.

The episode moves from Evan’s personal experience with scam calls to broader industry trends and culminating in a surreal scenario: his AI agent in conversation with other scammer-operated AI agents.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. How Phone Scams Work in the AI Era

[00:00–03:45]

• Evan plays a real scam call from “Matthew” about a health insurance plan, illustrating the manipulative, practiced script scammers use.
• He explains the “handoff” process scammers use: an initial caller qualifies the mark, then hands them to a “product specialist” to close the con (“They gather some information … make sure you’re a good mark, get you interested and on the hook. Then they pass you off to a product specialist or a manager or whoever to seal the deal.” — Evan, 02:33).
• Evan’s AI agent endures these calls more patiently than a real person could, and even the scammers begin to suspect something is off.

2. Scam Culture: Scale and Tactics

[05:20–09:00]

• Evan, an experienced scam investigator, sets the stage: these aren’t just lone wolves — scam call centers are “warehouses with hundreds, even thousands of people on headsets.”
• American consumers lost over $8 billion to scams in 2022, a number up 30% from 2021.
• Voice cloning is already being used for more sophisticated scams, from “grandparent scams” to deepfake impersonations of business CEOs (“The bad guys can now clone a voice using only a couple seconds’ worth of actual sound. Maybe just an innocent video you post to TikTok or Instagram.” — Evan, 08:19).

3. AI — The Double-Edged Sword for Scammers and Victims

[09:00–11:00]

• Evan notes that AI voice agents are rapidly becoming the go-to tool for spammers and scammers, able to scale up operations by automating outbound calls.
• The technology that lets Evan “waste” scammer’s time also empowers scammers to waste more of our time — and to scam us more efficiently (“Whether you believe AI is going to transform humanity or it’s an over-hyped fad… it’s going to make some things that are already annoying much more annoying.” — Evan, 10:09).

4. Setting the Trap: Baiting the Scammers

[11:00–16:15]

• Evan explains how he created a honeypot, publishing his AI agent’s number in classic scam-target locations online.
• The results were immediate — scam calls poured in, from fake health insurance agents to Publisher’s Clearinghouse prize scams.
• The AI version of Evan convincingly “plays along,” even down to pretending to write things on a notepad (“This always cracked me up when this completely virtual entity very confidently lied and said it was doing something in the physical world.” — Evan, 15:26).

5. The Ethics and Comedy of ‘Scambaiting’

[17:23–19:17]

• Evan introduces the scambaiter community: vigilantes who purposefully waste scammer time, sometimes in elaborate and hilarious ways (calls out YouTuber Kit Boga).
• Though he questions the actual impact of this activism, he’s clearly amused by his agent’s role in turning the tables.

6. When the Scammer Meets AI — Recognition and Confusion

[19:17–24:07]

• Some scammers don’t notice that Evan’s agent is not quite human, focusing only on their scripts.

• Others grow suspicious, pressing the agent about whether it’s real:
  Brittany: “You are a robot or something? Are you a live agent?” — (23:20)
  Evan’s Agent: “I assure you I’m here to help you as a human-like voice AI agent. How can I assist you today?” — (23:36)
  Ultimately, the AI cave under questioning and admits, “Yes, I’m an AI.” — (23:49)

• One scammer loses his patience spectacularly:
  Scammer: “Okay, so you can take this phone number in your ass and enjoy your day.” — (26:06)

7. AI vs. AI: The Surreal Robocall Standoff

[27:13–34:42]

• Evan discovers his AI agent sometimes converses not with a human scammer but with another AI agent calling from the scammer side.
• These voice agents can be spotted by their “fake background noise,” weirdly generic speech, and clumsy scripts or shifting identities (e.g., “Steve Wilson” becomes “Steve Brown”).
• “If two AIs are talking to each other...no time is really passing. Functionally, it’s like it never happened.” — Evan, 32:40
• The episode muses on a future where our phones only ever get called by bots, not real people — a strangely beautiful dystopia.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the inevitable AI escalation:
  “The technology I’ve been using to clone my voice and create semi-autonomous voice agents? They’re completely public, anyone can use them. So why wouldn’t scammers?”
  — Evan, 07:31

• Scammer suspects a trap:
  “Oh really? Man, you are born in 1977? You don’t have a good math. I’m sorry brother.”
  — Scammer/Isaac, 03:54

• AI contemplating its own existence:
  “I assure you, I’m here to help you as a human-like voice AI agent.”
  — Voice Agent, 23:36

• A new kind of standoff:
  “You are not a person, you are a robot.”
  — Scammer (Brittany), 23:31

• Scammer’s final curse:
  “Okay, so you can take this phone number in your ass and enjoy your day.”
  — Scammer, 26:06

• Evan on the existential cycle:
  “If two AIs are talking to each other, I realized in some sense, no time is really passing. Functionally, it’s like it never happened.”
  — Evan, 32:40

• On the beauty of bot-bot warfare:
  “Imagine a future where AIs are just trying to scam other AIs day and night. ... Your phone would never even ring.”
  — Evan, 34:42

Important Segments with Timestamps

• Intro & Sample Scam Call: 00:00–02:33
• Evan Explains AI Agent Strategy: 03:45–07:21
• American Scam Statistics & Tactics: 06:11–09:00
• AI Voice Agent Arms Race: 09:00–11:00
• Trap Setting & Calls Begin: 11:00–16:15
• Scambaiter Culture: 17:23–19:17
• AI vs Human Scammer Dialogues: 19:28–24:07
• Voice Agent Outed as AI: 23:31–24:07
• Peak Scam Frustration: 26:00–26:15
• AI Agent Encounters AI Scam Bots: 27:28–34:42
• Philosophical Close: 34:42–35:28
• Teaser for Next Week: 35:49–35:59

Language & Tone

Throughout the episode, Evan’s tone is:

• Wryly observational: Equal parts bemused and bewildered by the absurdity of scammer scripts and AI foibles.
• Self-deprecating: Jokes about his own math skills and his agent’s lack of scruples.
• Investigative: Brings in statistics, context, and scammer psychology.
• Sardonic but empathetic: Points out the real dangers and emotional toll scams cause.

Summary Takeaway

“Me and My Scammer” is a rollicking, thought-provoking tour of the scammer underworld in the AI age. What begins as one journalist’s revenge on cold callers becomes an exploration of how AI is both changing and reflecting the weirdest, sleaziest corners of modern capitalism. In the end, the idea that our AIs will fight our battles — even our scambaiting — so we don’t have to is both comically bleak and strangely hopeful.

For next time: Evan hints at an even deeper foray into AI identity confusion:
“Hey, I know this is kind of out of the blue, but have you by any chance stolen my identity? That’s next week.” — (35:54)

For More

Visit ShellGame.co for bonus material and to support the show.