Joanna Ingram (4:12)

And I think part of that is you need to feel like you have responsibility for the people you're bringing in. Because some people are sitting out there right now and they go, oh, well, everyone who needs money, my services is like this, and everyone's like that. Hold the phone. There's so many people out there that need you. There's so many humans, different personality types, different kinds of people. And if you're attracting one kind of person or if you're working with one kind of person and they're burning you out, something about the type of person that you're working with is burning you out. Maybe it doesn't mean you need to quit. Maybe you just need to tweak your messaging so you attract a different, different kind of person. This blows people's minds a lot of the time. And it's really hard to see from when you're in it. Because when you're in it, you're in it.

Joanna Ingram (5:02)

Yeah, you've just hit the nail on the head. Exactly. Now, you know, I come at this from kind of Three prongs, messaging, marketing, and energetics, which is part of my framework. Yeah, we can talk about all three, but I really want to get across the message that when you shift one, you kind of shift them all. You know, they're beautifully interlinked. And when you're busy serving people that are completely draining your energy, you do have to do some work behind the scenes to kind of elevate your own frequency. So the message that you're putting out is coming with ease rather than a chatgpt, you know, made up thing. However, I'm going to share some things that anybody can do right now to shift not only their energy, but their messaging and their content so that what they're going to do is actually attract people they want to work with. And yeah, if, if someone's listening to this, who's saying, well, that's a well and good, but right now I'd be happy just to attract a client. It'll do that too. But here's the good news. It'll attract clients that are on your wavelength and really value your transformational work. And that's something like, I'm just going to repeat that you want to work with clients who value your transformational work. Not someone who thinks that you're super duper inspiring but never buys. Not somebody that wants the outcome but isn't willing to follow your process. We're looking for people that are fully invested and trust that you're the most perfect fit to help them take that journey from their pain points. Call that point A to this result. The outcome, what they want and what they need, which is point B. Your offer sits in the middle. You can see it as a bridge. You can see it as a journey on a vehicle. The clear point here is that's what we're marketing. And when we don't have either, we don't have clarity on what exactly their struggles are and what exactly they really want, which happens even with seasoned entrepreneurs, particularly when you're kind of conceiving new messages. But also you can get to the place where we're just not dialing up the piece that makes the most difference. And I know that when we chatted on that panel, Jenna, the thing that I saw you, like, almost wave at me through the screen was when I started talking about agitating pain points. Because I see this all the time and like, clearly you do as well. And this is where we're taught that in order to get someone to want to work with us, we've got to tell them over and over and over all the things that are really keeping them stuck. I see you, this is so hard. You're really struggling with that. You feel like this, this isn't working. And hey, you know, if you don't make changes, it's never going to work. And we see a lot of this marketing online, I call it bro marketing. It's just something like really unfeminine, almost a little bit icky about it. But the thing that really kind of seals the deal when it comes to not wanting to do this anymore is when you realize that if you keep agitating the pain points, what you're really doing is talking to somebody whose sole identity is stuck with those as the description. So is that person really ready for change? How much effort is it going to take from you to get them that transformation from getting them onto a call, convincing them that the cost is reasonable, they're going to have lots of money objections to then getting them actually to show up on time having done the homework, if fully engaged, fully feeling that high vibration, wanting to do it? No, in simple terms, I've been there. I know that you can get clients through the door by pulling them through. You can get them the result by pulling them over the finish line. Not only is that completely soul destroying for you because it's a real mismatch in energy, but actually you'll find that those clients, even with that small result, will quickly go back to where they were before. And I think as coaches, as consultants, our goal is always to create a self sufficiency in our clients. We don't want codependent relationships. We want to create an amazing ability in our clients to get the results, even if they continue to work with us on the next big thing. And the next big thing. We're creating a self led, empowered approach to our specialism in our clients. You're right.

Joanna Ingram (9:19)

Let me see. Listen, listen listeners. I just edit, I'm going to edit out what I just said so you don't get to hear it because I keep trying to make examples that are not good. And so Joe's going to just give you an example that is actually good. There you go.

Joanna Ingram (9:33)

Now you know it was helpful because as you were like playing around with examples, it reminded me of something that I think illustrates this so perfectly. Like when I first started my business, leapt out of 20 years in advertising. My first coaching business was all about productivity and accountability and CEO strategies was what I used to do. And I used to put messaging out there that would say things like, oh my God, there's too much weak for the amount of work that you've got, you can't seem to bring to life your ideas. You're finding it really hard. And my, my thought here was having done some ideal client analysis, was that there are a lot of entrepreneurs out there who are just getting started that can't seem to ever complete anything. They never seem to get anything over the finish line. They always get stuck. And I felt really badly for them. You know, as someone that feels that I'm pretty productive, I'm a completed finisher, I'm a real motivator, seemed like a perfect match, Yin yang. And off I went. And indeed I started getting clients and they were beautiful human beings, however, that we weren't a great match because they were exactly who I said they were. They could never finish anything. And so I would be like, hey, let's get this offer creation underway this week. And they turn up a week later and I go, how'd you get on? Oh, I didn't do it. I got it got too hard. And I was like, okay, well we can do it together. Hang on. Even better, I'll do it for you. I know exactly what it needs to look like. I'll just do it for you. And I got in this over delivery mechanism where I so wanted them to get the result in the six weeks that I promised that we'd work together, that I would just give and give and give and they loved it until, you know, I checked back with them three months later, six months later, they'd gone back to jobs. They were still bumbling along. They just were never going to change simply because I had done something for them for six weeks. Fast forward after my complete burnout, rejigged my whole business, zeroed in on my gift, realized that it was a slight off topic, but as a 5:1 reflective for anyone that knows human design. I started learning a lot more about really what my gifts are, my zone of genius. And I was like, right, this is what I'm about. I'm going to only help relatively established, only occasionally newbies, working with them to really elevate their messaging so they attract those clients they most want to work with. And at that point, instead of talking about, here's all your problems, you can't do it, you can't do it. What? And I'm going to cut to the chase now. I'm going to like really give you what the tangible information you need. The hook of any piece of content can be brilliant if we use it in terms of a struggle, but only as an identifier. So for example, I could say, you know, are you struggling to write content that really connects with the clients that you most want to work with? I just named your problem in one. If you're my ideal client, that's you're constantly writing content, but yet it's not connecting with someone that the sorts of clients that you can charge more, you can work with them longer, you can make more impact, you can get more transformation, all the things that you really want to do. Instead you might be stuck doing one off sessions, short packages, people that don't want to show up, people that don't want to pay, maybe they've defaulted on the payments. I mean, the list is very long for how that might actually look to you in your business. So after that hook, then what we need to do is understand a whole lot about what they really want, what that transformation is. This, I call it desire based marketing. So it's like, what is it that they really want? And I break this down when I work with my clients into three areas to give us loads, loads of ideas. What do they want to feel, what do they want to think and say, and what do they want to do differently? And oftentimes we'll make that list from a struggle perspective because it's something about human minds, right? It's really easy to think, oh, this is hard, I can't do that. I feel this, this I feel frustrated and irritable. We can create all of these and then we can transform them into the desire opposites. So, you know, if somebody says, you know, I'm frustrated because I'm working with clients that aren't really following my process and they're not getting the best results. So, you know, I want these great testimonials. I want my clients, clients to like get these outstanding results, but I don't get a lot of those. You know, they make small shifts, but I really want the big ones that, you know, stand out in my market. Well, I already did that without even trying. I already started flipping it. This is what I really want. I want clients that get the biggest, most outstanding results that I know my transformational work is capable of creating. You know, I want to work with these clients who don't quibble when I give my prices and get excited at the idea of working with me in the way that I love to work most. Which, you know, for me, I love to work asynchronously. It's all sorts of things. And when we start to really call to our clients in saying to them, would you like to Be able to create content with ease and have it go out on ads organically. And the right kind of people are just showing up in your world. We don't care about vanity metrics anymore. We care about real connection. We care about revenue. We care about impact. You know, is it a problem if we don't get a lot of likes, or is it a bigger problem if people aren't reading our content and then dropping into our DMs? Like, what is the work? What is it you really want? And so when you start changing your mindset and calling to those people, it's literally. It's a calling. It shifts everything about how you create content from the way that you think of your clients through to the actual results you get in terms of people showing up in your inbox and starting to say, oh, you know, that's. You really read my mind. That is exactly what I want. If that's the work you do, then let's talk, right? We should have a conversation.

Joanna Ingram (15:27)

I have a presentation that I give where it's. There's a messaging section, and it's like, that's how you know that you did it, is you start getting responses from people that are like, wow, it's like, you're in my head. Oh, I needed to hear this today. Those are signs that your messaging and for us, your nurture content is bang on. And so I have a screenshot of an email that I received one time that says, jenna, with respect, get out of my head. You know, I'm like, there you go. That's like your bingo moment that you got it. Go back and look at that piece of content. What did that say? What piece of. It got into their head, you know, yeah, absolutely.

Joanna Ingram (16:02)

I mean, and when we talk about integrity, because I think that's. That's a really important pillar as well. I just wanted to bring this into the mix, is that calling to what people really want to create is really talking to them with respect and really seeing them as whole, as not broken, as somebody that has just got a specific challenge that you are best placed to help them solve. And I think when we get stuck in agitation messaging and struggle messaging, it's like telling someone you're stuck. You're not very good at this. You haven't really got this. When truthfully, and I know this from my own experience with my own clients, is that many of us work with equally as dynamic, brilliant, visionary clients as we ourselves are when we work with other people. And there's that meeting of minds, that thought partnership in our Work together that when you know that someone can say, see what it is you really want to achieve. We just feel so much trust. It's like, oh, yeah, this person knows where I want to get to. So I trust that they have the solution and the steps and the processes, the frameworks that are actually going to create the outcome that I'm after here. Don't underestimate or under convey the transformational quality of your work. And don't be afraid to say these are the sorts of transformations that my clients experience. Experience this, or this is the transformation that I myself have experienced. And these don't even have to be tangible. You know, I work with a lot of clients whose work is, you know, in the spiritual space. The sorts of outcomes they get are not as tangible as saying, $10,000 a month, which, you know, is one of these offers that so many in our industry seem to get super excited by. It's like your first six figure year, 10k a month. And of course, if your clients are getting those results, then it's lovely to say that this is some of the outcomes. But equally, we can talk about a dramatic shift in how somebody feels, about how somebody shows up, about how they act or behave differently, knowing that the sort of client that we may want to attract understands the value of that and how different their life will be with those subtle but very important shifts.

Joanna Ingram (18:20)

Absolutely. One thing that I was immediately drawn to in the way that you talk about all of this, I always talk about it like, you can do A or you can do B. You can do the masculine thing or you can do the feminine thing. You can do the pain points or you can not. And like, just so you know, you have other options. They both work, but you get to do the one that you like best. And you've actually found a side effect other than not feeling like you're in integrity for doing the former, which I was just like, wow. I think that's the part that blew my mind. It's this added level of. It's also speaking to who you attract, which also talk about an intangible outcome. Speaks to how much you actually like showing up to work and doing the job right, which then speaks to how much money you're gonna make and how long you're gonna stay in the game. Okay, Jo, how does somebody know it's the right time to call you and how do they find you online?

Joanna Ingram (19:12)

Great question. People generally know that it's time to work with me because they are not resonating with the clients that they really want. To reach and likely they're ready for an up level. I see this all the time. People get a little bored or even frustrated by their offers. The way they deliver them, the way their marketing set out, the types of clients that are coming into their world and they say, you know what, it's time to completely up level. I want to charge more, I want to do deeper work. I want to get into a place where my business is on the next level. What I do is I work with them to elevate their ideal client, their messaging, most often their offers too. Because getting great clients is from first contact to finalized contract and beyond. Messaging doesn't stop the minute someone reads a piece of content. Right? If you don't have the right promise and the right backend offer to actually bring in the right people to high level offers and more revenue, then clearly you're not going to uplev your business. So if any of those is somebody that's listening, then get in touch and let's chat. Let's see if we're a good fit. You can find me over on Instagram, you find me@iamjo.ingram. similarly, Joanna Ingram over on LinkedIn. Or you can head to my website, which is Joanna Ingram.ling website. Awesome. Thank you. Oh, sorry, can I just add one more thing? And I forgot to mention Jenna and I can do this live right now, but I really want you to come onto my podcast because my, my audience, I gotta say, are really video shy, but I suspect there are a few there who want to and need the support. And I would love for you to share all of your expertise with my audience because my podcast is called Goals with Soul. It's currently a top 2% global podcast. If you want to hear a little bit more about what I teach, I share everything on my podcast Goals with Soul, as well as having outstanding guests look out for Jenna in the near future. Awesome.

Joanna Ingram (21:10)

And we will of course link all of that down below this show.