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- [00:00]
A
So we started and just did these, like super lo fi educational videos, trying to weave in our brand and Bobby's pillars about confidence and empowerment and authenticity and just went viral. You know, millions of views in a day, pretty much tripled our business overnight, which a lot of challenges, but was really fun and exciting.
- [00:21]
B
Hello and welcome to Shopify Masters, the podcast powered by Shopify, your companion for starting and building a business. I'm Schweng Esther Shaniya. When beauty business icon Bobbi Brown wanted to scale her new makeup line, Jones Row Beauty, she knew her branding and marketing would need to be vastly different from what's already on the market. She turned to Cody Flofker, marketing expert and direct to consumer growth strategist. As a chief marketing officer, Coty helped Jonesboro Beauty to become a sustainable brand with organic traffic. The brand reached over $20 million in sales in 2021 and and is on track to triple its revenue this year as a consultant to some of the fastest growing D2C brands. Cody also shares his knowledge in a weekly newsletter detailing what he's learned from advising companies like North Beam and Octane AI Cody is joining us now to share the marketing strategies that have helped Jonesboro Beauty to scale. Cody, welcome to the show.
- [01:22]
A
Thanks so much. Thanks for having me. Really excited to do this.
- [01:26]
B
Very excited to dig in. So we gotta start off and talk about your career. You actually did a switch from performance and strength coaching to marketing. What surprising skills translates to marketing for a beauty company?
- [01:40]
A
Yeah, so I essentially, I was a strength and conditioning coach. My wife was a physical therapist, and we decided to open up our own business mostly out of, you know, hubris and ignorance. And, you know, I always thought that if you're really good at what you did, you didn't need marketing, essentially. And, you know, a few months into our business, I found out that that couldn't be further from the truth that, you know, no matter how good you were, you still had to get the word out and know how to, you know, attract customers. And I have a little bit of an obsessive mind. So as soon as I, you know, started learning marketing and realized I need to because we were running out of cash, I just kind of got hooked on it. I just got obsessed with it. To me, marketing is something that you can't ever really master. You can learn so much about it and still, you know, need to learn so much more. So, you know, I used what I learned in marketing was very, you know, direct response heavy. It was, you know, a lot of learning, you know, digital Marketing, learning how to run ads, learning how to, you know, do stuff with email, everything like that, to kind of grow that company, set up multiple locations, people in our network kind of found out that we were having success with it, so started kind of consulting other people and a local business, especially like a service based business. I didn't really care for the ops, I just wanted to do marketing. So I felt like that was limiting kind of what I wanted to do. So I was like, oh, E commerce is awesome because you can really scale and just do marketing. So I just started doing a lot of work in E commerce, just kind of working with brands, helping them with their ads, with their growth, all things kind of growth and performance marketing. And my mom actually is Bobby Brown. So when they were launching Jones Road, kind of, you know, working on it secretly, the general manager at the time reached out and was like, hey, like I know you're pretty good, you know, with ads and stuff like that. Like, do you recommend we hire an agency? Should we go in house? Like we're leaning towards an agency. And I was like, absolutely, do not hire an agency. Like, you know, I highly recommend doing it in house. And they were like, well, we don't really know anyone. Do you want to do it? And I was like, absolutely not. I don't want to do a family business. Like definitely not doing that. So they ended up hiring an agency and on the day that they launched, I just couldn't help myself. There were so many things that I saw that was like, you gotta do this. Like there weren't certain types of ads up. There wasn't, you know, an abandoned cart flow. Like the pop up needed optimization. So like I started consulting a little bit, just kind of helping out. It was such like a small team at first and you know, I would make suggestions and there was really no one to do them. So they would be like, well could you, could you do this? Can you fix this? And you know, one thing led to another. You know, it happens to be a family business, privately owned business. So I was incentivized to do so. Kind of started working part time and then started working full time. And as the team grew, I just took over more responsibilities and then this year became CMO of it. So just kind of oversee and lead all of our marketing as we're growing.
- [04:41]
B
I love it. I think I'm excited to get into the nitty gritty of what you mentioned, like pop ups and abandoned carts. But before we get there, I wanted to ask, how did you approach sharing Bobby's story? While trying to establish this new brand because she does have such a reputation within the industry. But you're also trying to establish this brand new brand and share its story. So how did you balance the two?
- [05:06]
A
Yeah, that's actually a really good question. I don't think it's anything, you know, in my mind that has been solved or figured out yet, but it's definitely been a focus. I think there were definitely improvements that could be made when we first launched in terms of, you know, brand strategy and how we tell the story. And I didn't think it was being done nearly as well as, you know, I think it needed to be done. So that was definitely something we really worked on. And again we, we weren't sure for multiple reasons how much to focus on Dobby versus the brand. You know, we weren't sure if we did focus on her, how to differentiate that from her previous brand. You know, we didn't want to say anything that was negative, but we also wanted to make it clear why this was different. You know, so it's, it's still an ongoing thing, but I think definitely pulling from a lot of the trust and credibility that she's built over the years and you know, she's got obviously a strong following because of that. But again, like you said, figuring out how to make this differentiated and haven't, haven't, you know, not going to say we've cracked it, but what, we're totally getting there.
- [06:07]
B
So you quickly touched on having a pop up as well as an abandoned cart flow. What other really crucial components for a website a founder needs to think about when they're setting up their business.
- [06:20]
A
I mean, you have to make sure that the website is obviously functional. You have to QA it especially. We're doing this interview right before Black Friday, so there's going to be a lot of website changes people are making. You have to do as much quality assurance as you can just to make sure everything is working, all the links are working, all the buttons are working across every device. I don't see enough people spending enough time doing that. So that was certainly something that I looked at. You want to make sure, especially if you're driving demand, that you're capturing that demand. Fortunately, they were driving demand. There was a lot of earned media and press, but there were a lot of things that I think they weren't capturing that demand really well. There were no branded search terms, so people searched Jones Road. There was no one showing. And that was important because with a brand new website, there's no domain authority so you don't really have any organic search rankings. So that was one. Having a pop up is definitely important because again, you're only going to Capture, you know, 2 to 3 to 4% of the people buying. So you definitely want to be, you know, thinking about how you're growing that, that email list because that's an asset that you totally want to have. And then, you know, from there you should have, you know, standard email flows set up. So a welcome flow to, you know, indoctrinate people, nurture them into your brand and educate them on your brand and why you exist and your products, you know, abandoned cart flows, things like that, upsells, different kind of upsells and cross sells to get your average order value up. A lot of the stuff that's pretty common right now, but definitely want to make sure you have a lot of that up.
- [07:50]
B
Can you tell us what marketing strategies did you invest in first and which channels or strategies were the most successful?
- [07:58]
A
I mean, you definitely want to get, especially when you launch, you know, you want to build a foundation of organic traffic and really think about how you are building up your owned and earned audiences, You know, so definitely building, you know, social followings. I mean, there was, there was a big focus on that. There was in my opinion, too much of a focus on that. And I was kind of like, hey, you really should think about building owned audiences as well, if not way more. So I remember kind of when I got involved, you know, there were more Instagram followers than there were people on the email list. And now our email list is more, probably five times our social following, which is to me a much stronger and less volatile asset. So definitely owned audiences, meaning not something that can be taken away from you, not something that people can, an algorithm can change or the cost is going to go up. So email, SMS are the two big ones. Just a customer file in general. And then the next tier from there would be earned. So that would be something like a social media following on, you know, that could be Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, but really mainly Instagram and then later on became TikTok and then also earned. And that's, you know, affiliate press. So a lot of, you know, publications are now affiliate. So that's been a big strategy as well as, you know, influencer marketing, which is huge in beauty.
- [09:25]
B
Speaking of earned, we have to talk about the TikTok viral moment that surrounded with a foundation and I think it also trickled so much into traditional, traditional media with all the press coverage. So take us behind the scenes. How did the team manage that kind of very intense time?
- [09:45]
A
So essentially what happened is when we launched our foundation, kind of slash tinted moisture balm called what the foundation, we launched it our best day ever, you know, pretty high revenue day. Best day ever. We were pretty thrilled, you know, from our core consumers and everything. The feedback was great because it's, you know, it's not like anything like that's out there on the market. However, quickly on TikTok, we started seeing a lot of negative reviews. People, you know, weren't loving it, they weren't understanding how to use it. But yeah, so there were people. And then there were a few large influencers, content creators who had posted some definitely, you know, not so positive reviews. One of them was from somebody who. Our look is a, is a no makeup, makeup look. So it's very minimal. You don't need a lot. It's. It's not trying to cover up, it's just trying to kind of enhance, you know, how people are looking. And somebody essentially slathered the whole thing on their face, you know, and was like, it's not really for me, I'm not loving it. And, you know, that got probably 4 million views. And pretty much all the comments on all of our TikTok posts and ads going forward were like, oh, I'm not seeing anyone like this product. So, like, it was definitely starting to harm things. And people were. There were a lot of comments like, hey, like, you guys, are you going to respond to this? And I wanted to just wait and see and not overreact. But eventually I remember I was at a conference that weekend and eventually I was like, I think we've got to do something. So I called a meeting for that following Monday and we met about it. So myself, Bobby, head of pr, head of social, head of influencer, and we just tried to figure out what our strategy was going to be and we wanted to take the high road. We don't want to be defensive and it's okay if, you know. So a few points of our message we thought were important is, you know, it's okay. It's not for everyone. Like, not, not everyone, not our style of makeup is not going to be for everyone. That is, that is totally okay. So not everyone's going to love it. Also, you know, if you do want to give it a fair chance, like, here's how to use it. So we just shot some kind of TikToks with Bobby explaining how to use it, explaining a little bit more about the product, and at the end of it, I had the idea. I was like, what if we did this? And essentially what happened is Bobby jokingly took a giant amount of what the foundation, which is what this one influencer did, and just smeared it on and was kind of like, hey, here's how to use it. And then kind of was. It was very clearly a joke and we posted it. And I got a call from Bobby about an hour after we posted it and she hadn't seen it. She was like, I was thinking about it, I don't think we should post it. And I was like, yeah, don't kill me, but it's too late. But I was like. I was like, don't worry. Like, the comments are actually overwhelmingly positive. So, yeah, I mean, for the most part there were definitely some people who didn't like it and thought it was. It was. It was immature, but it was to us all in good fun. It was just kind of making fun of ourselves a little bit and meant no harm, but got a lot of earned media and, you know, really kind of helped that launch. But there were a lot of people that thought the entire thing was. Was planned. And we sent to this influencer and paid her to do it and couldn't be further from the case. We actually didn't even send to her. She bought the product on. On her own, which was the funny part.
- [12:44]
B
It's really interesting to hear behind the scenes and also almost how the video didn't even get pub kind of hit publish a bit early. And I'm glad you did because I think majority of the people were saying that it was actually the perfect response. So can you tell us a little bit about the impact after this whole viral TikTok situation and what it had on the business?
- [13:09]
A
Yeah, so there was a lot of obviously just, you know, TikTok growth that came from that. A lot of eyeballs on our page, you know, so things were performing really strongly on TikTok. It seemed like in, you know, a matter of moments it went from like I discussed like, you know, not having a lot of momentum and looking pretty bad for our brand to kind of like, you know, people loving it and kind of, you know, gaining a lot of goodwill. But yeah, just from traditional media there was a ton. It feels like pretty much every major, you know, outlet and especially beauty outlet covered it. So that was really strong and obviously helps overall traffic and sales. So yeah, overall was super strong and you know, again, it was a risk. It's nice that it kind of turned out because it's. You definitely have to be very careful with with what you're saying. And, you know, you can get canceled super easily if you don't say the right thing or if just things aren't interpreted the way that you want, for sure.
- [14:07]
B
I'm chatting with Cody Flofker, the chief marketing officer at Jones Road Beauty. So now I want to switch gears and talk about Jones Road Beauty and its retail approach. You actually have your own retail location, flagship store, but you haven't actually partnered with any beauty retailers or department stores. Can you tell us the rationale behind this decision?
- [14:33]
A
Yeah, we, we. We have, but very sparingly. We were in Credo, which is a clean beauty retailer. No longer in Credo. Probably by the time that this comes out, we are in Liberty in London, and that's going super successfully. But we're not in, you know, Sephora or department stores or anything like that. You know, when we launched, it was. It was, you know, essentially during the pandemic, and it was direct to consumer only. And, you know, I believe the reason for that is kind of a why not? You know, things are so different from when Bobby first launched your brand. Obviously, direct to consumer didn't exist. Shopify didn't exist then. But also, you know, it's kind of like part of this company and part of kind of the story that's evolving is like, you know, this is a rebirth for Bobbi. It's, you know, her second, you know, time building a beauty brand and she started her own thing. You know, she sold it, she had a lot of success. But then she also, you know, it became corporate and it didn't really became, you know, it became not her baby anymore. So it's kind of like wanting to do things her own way and our own way. And, you know, there are pros and cons of retail and wholesale, but, you know, you definitely don't retain as much autonomy and control of the way that you do. And the beautiful thing about direct to consumers, you can launch a product in a day if you have to, which we've done before. You can push launches back if you need to. You're able to be a lot more nimble and just in control of things. So I know a ton of people are talking about the death of direct to consumer and stuff like that, but I firmly believe if you do it correctly and you have kind of certain DNA that you can definitely be successful in. We're gonna remain direct consumer mainly for as long as we can and be very strategic with retail. And, you know, we've got one of our own stores right now, and that's definitely a strategy that we're expanding on and, and considering, you know, I would say more. More than considering doing it sustainably and slowly, but we definitely want to have more of our own stores that we can control everything.
- [16:35]
B
I think having retail autonomy and also retail ownership looks after the way that you talk to your customers. Because think Drones Road Beauty does require kind of this communication and education for its customers. So how has the team handled customer education and sharing, how to utilize different products and the story behind the brand?
- [16:59]
A
Yeah, that's a great question. It's actually, you know, it's something that I, again, I think that we're trying to do a better job of than it always is. But we, you know, prior to the. What the foundation, we actually went viral on TikTok with Bobby in January of this year, so probably like four or five months before it, because I realized that education was huge. I realized, you know, there's so much education. Our products are not standard beauty products. And, you know, so that was one reason why I think our customers just needed way more education on how to use my. I had seen so many anecdotes of that. But also, you know, if I was looking back at how Bobby built her first brand, you know, a lot of beauty is very traditional product marketing, and hers is actually was more content marketing. It was just older forms of media. But, you know, she would go on the Today show on a weekly segment and, you know, you're not allowed to sell when you go on the Today show and just educate on how to use and how to get simple looks. And she had written many books and those were, you know, a lot of people's kind of foray into it. So as we were thinking about that, we were fortunate enough actually to meet with Gary Vaynerchuk, who's a friend of abhi's. And, you know, I was thinking about building this whole content team and content studio and he was like, just go on TikTok. He was like, you know, you don't need to do all that. Just take an iPhone and go on TikTok. So we started and just did these like super lo fi educational videos, trying to weave in our brand and Bobby's pillars about confidence and empowerment and authenticity and just went viral. Millions of views in a day. Pretty much tripled our business overnight, which a lot of challenges, but was really fun and exciting. So. So it's something that we do. We try to put on our channels on social a ton specifically. So TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, lots of video education from Bobby, as well as our influencers and content creators, we try to take a very educational approach to email. In fact, all of our ads, all of our digital ads, it's not just here's this product, buy this product. It's either Bobby or a content creator talking about what makes the product so great, what's in them, a ton of how to use it, you know, showing our philosophy and showing the products. So I think there's always more we can do. I think we can do more post purchase, I think we can do more content stuff. We have a store. People travel to our one store, which is in Montclair, New Jersey, from hours and hours away because they want to be color matched and they want their makeup done. So, yeah, I totally believe that owning that relationship and being able to kind of control the communication with the customer is, is key because, you know, for us, how to use the products is pretty much everything.
- [19:31]
B
And what other strategies or new channels has the team been experimenting with or wanting to get into to really set the brand apart?
- [19:42]
A
Our competitive edge probably hasn't come from, you know, being the first to a new channel or something like that. You know, it's a pretty standard mix of direct to consumer. So majority of ad spend is on, you know, meta properties. So Facebook and Instagram, we're just dabbling now with YouTube, which I think is going to be a pretty big focus for us. You know, TikTok has kind of, you know, we were spending a good amount, now it's a little bit less, but have had some success there. And I think now as we grow, we're kind of getting to the size where we're starting to think about a little bit more top of funnel, whether that's television advertising, whether that's out of home, we really haven't done many of those things or none at all. So I think that'll be a big focus. But yeah, we're trying to just, you know, we're not trying to reinvent the wheel with marketing. We're just trying to make amazing products, have, you know, really clear storytelling, have education, deliver an amazing customer experience, and then just have. Have marketing that, you know, feels more like content than pushing ads.
- [20:42]
B
I'm chatting with Cody Flofker, the chief marketing officer at Jones Road Beauty. I hope you are enjoying our conversation and if you haven't already, follow or subscribe to Shopify Masters wherever you get your podcast. And please leave us a review or feedback for the show. Thanks. So I guess we talked a little bit about how your earned audiences from social have Translated to traditional media, where PR and traditional media have covered Jones Road beauty. Are there any approaches or tips and that you want to give for listeners if they do want to reach out to traditional media kind of cold or pitching their products to different outlets?
- [21:26]
A
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. It's definitely been a focus. We kind of approach it from, from two ways. One is, was, one is traditional, you know, press and public relations, and the other is affiliate. And more and more every day, those, those lines kind of blur and they become one and one of the same. You know, nearly every publication that you read from digitally monetizes through multiple forms. But affiliate is a main driver. So understanding that is, I think, super important. And yes, you can definitely hire a PR firm and approach it kind of the old school way with a feature story to an editor. But we also place a big focus on affiliate, which is every time that somebody buys your product from the New York Times or Vogue or something like that, there's a small commission that they get. So just understanding kind of that game, it's still very relationship based. So, you know, understanding that game, making sure you're offering competitive affiliate commissions, making sure that your website converts well so that when people do send the traffic, it's as valuable or more valuable than if they send to, you know, a competitor. And then it's again, still having, you know, strong editorial aspects to that, launching new products that are super exciting, doing holiday promotions that are exciting that will, you know, not only make them money but also make the editors happy there. Because a lot of times, you know, it's kind of the editors as well as the commerce managers or affiliate managers that get a say. But so make sure you're doing interesting things, do collabs, you know, do you should. You should probably be doing things that will specifically get earned media, even if you don't think it's going to be a huge revenue driver. If you do a collab with another cool brand and you kind of, you know, pitch that to an editor, that can be a really interesting story for that for them to write about as well. So yeah, just approaching it kind of from, from both sides and both perspectives.
- [23:18]
B
So another really interesting aspect of Jones Road Beauty is the demographics. A lot of brands are trying to capture a younger Gen Z audience while your team is catering to millennials and above. What are some challenges or advantages?
- [23:33]
A
Yeah, that's a great question. So that was another one when we launched like so many people will launch with like a brand deck and just these very stubborn ideas of what their brand is going to be. And that was one that, you know, I hate to be like an I told you so kind of guy, but that was one that I definitely kind of called and we had, you know, debates about from the beginning because I had, you know, I had just seen it over the years. Like, people buy and respond to people that they feel kinship to, and a lot of that is, you know, the demographic. So if, you know, if Bobby happened to launch this brand when she was 25 years old, it would probably be a Gen Z brand. But she happened to launch this brand in her 60s, so, you know, it's. It's a. She's creating products that she wishes were out there. And, you know, there are definitely subtle or not so subtle, you know, nuances to skin care and makeup as you, you know, as you mature, but as well as. It's just kind of like who has followed her. So I think it's actually a really strong advantage to us that we not only are able to. To cater to a wide part of the market because we definitely have, you know, the older customer who's a little. Probably like 45 plus, who's followed Bobby for a while and resonates with her, but there are also a lot of millennials as well. Maybe their first encounter with makeup was going to, you know, Bobby Brown counter. Maybe it was reading one of Bobby's books. That's a pretty common thing we hear. But we're definitely not a Gen Z brand. And I think, you know, it's helpful because there are a lot of people talking to Gen Z, going after Gen Z, trying to find them. But, you know, I think it's been great because for whatever reason that the beauty industry really caters to a younger one. You know, there's definitely this kind of, you know, stereotype or just notion of beauty that, you know, if you're. If you're aging or showing signs of aging, you're not beautiful. And that's not as much anymore, but it still feels like that. So I think people really respond to, you know, a message of, you know, embracing your. Your wrinkles or lines, as Bobby likes to call them, and. And, you know, using products that also have a lot of really healthy skincare ingredients in them, which is great for the skin, and then just, again, just embracing aging and feeling beautiful. So we're definitely leaning more into that messaging as we go, and it resonates super well.
- [25:55]
B
And you're also speaking to a demographic that's often not as catered to, so less saturation as well. These are Consumers who actually have spending power as well.
- [26:05]
A
100. Absolutely. I think that's probably, you know, one of the most important things. Yeah, I mean, spending power combined with, you know, with people that don't feel like they're really being marketed to and felt seen by that many other beauty brands, it's definitely important.
- [26:21]
B
So you write a weekly newsletter talking about how to become a better marketer. What advice do you have for new business owners or someone who's looking to launch their brand?
- [26:32]
A
It's really understanding why you're starting new business and making sure the market actually needs it because, you know, you couldn't be starting a new business. You know, unfortunately, at a more difficult time, things are super tough. You know, the economy is not in an amazing place. You know, cost of goods and shipping are expensive. It's really difficult to find paid advertising success with a new business. You know, there's just so much competition. So, you know, you really need to make sure you have something that is unique and has a, you know, a compelling appeal to the market. And then you also need to know how to kind of market and brand that properly and get the word out. So that would be the first thing. It's just kind of picking your market and picking your. Your differentiation points super well.
- [27:16]
B
And what are some trends within marketing that you are interested in or paying attention to currently?
- [27:24]
A
Creator economy. A lot of people are talking about it, but definitely the creator economy is definitely here to stay. So, you know, I think a lot of brands the last five years, 10 years, were built off the back of Facebook ads. I think you're going to find a lot of brands that are catering to the creator economy because, you know, you have to think about having a digital supply chain as much as a physical supply chain, you know, so if you're looking to start a new brand, you have to have an audience. And as it gets more competitive and gets more saturated, partnering with a creator, launching a brand with a creator, or building an audience yourself before launching a brand is an amazing way to kind of get started.
- [28:03]
B
Yeah, I love the way you phrase it, like the physical supply chain and also the digital landscape and understanding how to distribute on that digital landscape as well. And what about Jones Road Beauty? What are some exciting projects or initiatives that you can talk about?
- [28:19]
A
Oh, man, so many. You know, I'm really excited for a lot of new channels just to try and test them. So, you know, out of Home I think is interesting. It's just fun. It's, you know, a lot harder to measure and test and track which is kind of one of the fun parts, just having our team and myself learn new skills. So, you know, there are definitely some cool ways. You know, wild postings, billboards, driving trucks around the city with our logo all over them will be super cool. You know, maybe some collaborations. Television. Super excited to do some TV ads and see how that performs and then really just trying to get better at what we're doing. You know, I think influencer marketing is something we can do a way better job of than what we previously have been. You know, I think, you know, we can always get better at things like just content creation and social. I think we can always get better with our ads making our landing pages convert better and just offer a better, you know, experience. So, yeah, there's. There's just so much that I think it's between testing new things and just trying to get better, 1% better every day. What we're doing.
- [29:27]
B
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for being here today, Cody.
- [29:31]
A
Yeah, of course. It was my pleasure. And a ton of fun chatting with you.
- [29:35]
B
That's Cody Flofker from Jones Row Beauty. Thank you for joining us on Shopify Masters. Our show is produced by Megan Coyle and Gogo Zoeger. Our engineers are Matt Schwartz and Miku Bedlam. Benjamin Gottlieb is our supervising producer. And I'm Schweng Estershan. We'll see you next time.
- [29:59]
A
Sa.